Jul 19 03:23:00 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_is_a_Jew%3F — there are many answers, but MOST of the time it's not related to religion. Jul 19 03:25:18 Interestingly, the right of return doesn't follow halakhic rules, and is much stricter for Ethiopians than, say, Russians. Jul 19 04:36:45 Huh. "Argos" sometimes means "silver", BUT sometimes means "not working" (a- + ergos) Jul 19 04:37:19 I feel an urgent need to accost people in Milton Keynes and explain this volubly. Jul 19 07:28:34 twb: re "who is a Jew?" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovadia_Yosef has the privilege of blessing everyone he pleases (and their maternal descendents) as a Jew, and he is yet to answer "no" to the question "Is [insert entity here] a pure Jew?"» Jul 19 07:32:34 "pure" eyeroll Jul 19 07:34:57 rindolf: I think I must be misreading you somehow, because it sounds like "whenever asked 'is X a Jew?' he always answers 'yes'" — which seems unlikely for an ultra-orthodox dude Jul 19 07:35:28 Since someone's bound to have asked e.g. "is rudolph the red-nosed reindeer a jew" by now Jul 19 07:35:45 it is believed he dressed in the extravagant custom from the same reason as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darth_Vader who openly admitted he uses his robot custom because it is memorable Jul 19 07:41:41 twb: it was a joke - take it easy. and in that joke world, he answered "yes" to that question. there are also several sects of superintelligent jewish cats there. Jul 19 07:44:11 * rindolf is trying to be strange but amusing Jul 19 07:55:48 my junior high / high school friend was smarter, had more vivid imagination, and was funnier than I was at the time Jul 19 07:57:38 rindolf: before the school got a restraining order? Jul 19 08:01:55 twb: restraining order for whom? and punishments in .il are light given Saladin's ethics Jul 19 08:06:14 twb: have you watched https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kung_Fu_Panda_2 ? i like how Po forgives the villain at the end Jul 19 08:12:46 rindolf: schools often take a dim view of old men being friends with high school students Jul 19 08:13:23 twb: m friend Jul 19 08:14:17 twb: that afforementioned friend was/is my age Jul 19 08:18:52 twb: and i think age difference friendships are overblown. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samantha_Smith was 10 when she 'slew' two mighty superpowers Jul 19 08:34:35 In this context, "John's works have been highly criticized by other scholars, including Jacob and Lucy, for his illogical thinking" -- Do I need to use "have been" or "has been"? Jul 19 08:34:44 What's right word to use? Have vs Has Jul 19 08:34:52 toretto: "have been" Jul 19 08:34:56 thanks Jul 19 08:35:24 s/her/his/ Jul 19 08:35:25 toretto: plural is "have" usually Jul 19 08:35:49 I see, makes sense. Jul 19 08:36:05 good morning, comrades :) Jul 19 08:37:43 i wonder if there are any reputable sources left in English-speaking world which still adhere that singular they is... a controversial thing? Jul 19 08:38:53 I relied upon Chicago manual of style in this matter, but it seems they too gave up Jul 19 08:42:32 StayHungry: i used singular "they" in the past, but now use "he" again at times. Jul 19 08:43:30 it could *maybe* be considered nonstandard when referring to specific people of known (binary) gender Jul 19 08:43:51 but it's been used for centuries generically Jul 19 08:44:00 including by Shakespeare and in the King James Bible Jul 19 08:44:11 KJV used it too, yes Jul 19 08:44:26 it's actually older than the singular "you" Jul 19 08:44:27 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/they#Usage_notes Jul 19 08:45:19 ksft: used does not mean common. for example, i use word 'invective' on par with ancient ancestors, whereas it's not common in English. Jul 19 08:45:52 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they Jul 19 08:45:52 in my country we have inflection and i can use only "he" in sentence. I don't consider this to be a mistake. Jul 19 08:46:16 kompowiec: in which language? Jul 19 08:46:18 we have* Jul 19 08:46:20 polish Jul 19 08:46:56 I remember a funny situation where some idiot called my language sexist for that reason. Jul 19 08:47:02 StayHungry: I don't think I understand your point Jul 19 08:47:56 I meant that it's been standard usage for centuries Jul 19 08:48:02 just because you can change any word in English because there is no inflection, does not mean that in other languages it is possible. Jul 19 08:48:32 was that person an English speaker? Jul 19 08:48:39 kompowiec: English has inflexion, just not for gender (mostly) Jul 19 08:48:44 also, i live both outside of golden billion and gender-whatever discourse, so that wikipedia article written by you know whom is not relevant. i'm looking not for fashion advice, but for sources that still stick to what is make sense grammatically, not politically. Jul 19 08:48:51 if so, you could respond by pointing to words that are always gendered in English Jul 19 08:48:56 like "neice"/"nephew" Jul 19 08:49:05 he knew another language, but it was not a inflection language Jul 19 08:49:08 kompowiec: pronouns still inflect for gender, as does the adjective "blond/blonde" and, historically, some jobs (e.g. "invigilator/invigilatrix") Jul 19 08:49:25 some jobs still do Jul 19 08:49:26 negress :P Jul 19 08:49:41 "waiter"/"waitress", "actor"/"actress" Jul 19 08:49:51 ksft: depending on the dialect, yes Jul 19 08:49:53 the masculine one is also generic in all cases I can think of, though Jul 19 08:50:08 > invigilatrix Jul 19 08:50:09 i never heard of it Jul 19 08:50:23 niece* :x Jul 19 08:50:31 niece*, yes Jul 19 08:50:37 kompowiec: it is a woman who prevents students from cheating during an exam Jul 19 08:50:49 oo Jul 19 08:51:05 kompowiec: "doctress" and "actress" and "aviatrix" are attested more commonly. Jul 19 08:51:07 "proctor", in American English Jul 19 08:51:16 Also "danceuse" Jul 19 08:51:26 that's what I was gonna say, it's from the British Jul 19 08:51:26 ksft: well... "proctress" in that case ;-) Jul 19 08:51:34 what variant uses "doctress"? Jul 19 08:51:50 ksft: none anymore, but it was readily apparent in the early 1900s Jul 19 08:51:54 I only know the American dialect, probably because of its ubiquitous presence. Jul 19 08:52:28 kompowiec: I'd have thought Poland more likely to use British due to proximity, but I guess all the rest of western europe is in between you Jul 19 08:52:38 I think mandatory gendering is unfortunate in languages, but it's ridiculous to suggest that people who use those languages are doing something wrong Jul 19 08:52:40 rindolf: how do you deal with those who are eager to correct you when you use 'he'? Jul 19 09:45:45 rindolf: how do you deal with those who are eager to correct you when you use 'he'? ==> it doesn't happen a lot, but i tell them "you're right. point taken. force of habit' to be the bigger person there Jul 19 09:46:26 diplomatist :) Jul 19 09:47:53 StayHungry: Chuck Norris round house kicks doors open instead of using their keys. Summer Glau makes sure doors have already been open using her mind. ;) Jul 19 09:48:18 * StayHungry looks up Summer Glau Jul 19 10:01:48 StayHungry: «Summer Glau (born 1981) is a Hollywood actress best known for playing River Tam in Firefly and Cameron, a Terminator, in the Television series The Sarah Connor Chronicles. She is also notable for being featured in the online comics, xkcd, and for being featured as a fictional version of herself in [my] realistic, political, fan-fiction, screenplay, Summerschool at the NSA.» Jul 19 10:01:59 yeah :) Jul 19 10:04:45 passed me by except for a couple of Terminator series Jul 19 10:06:01 StayHungry: i know her primarily from https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/406:_Venting Jul 19 10:07:28 :)) Jul 19 10:09:06 rindolf: looking in the scrollback my brain hurt because I was like "the river Tam doesn't flow through Cameron" Jul 19 10:10:03 :D Jul 19 10:13:01 StayHungry: "everybody knows that, right?" https://youtu.be/QmklkUpN1YA?t=149 Jul 19 10:14:30 twb: heh, Cambridge does have a River Cam. it's a lovely town. Jul 19 10:15:08 rindolf: i mean, obviously. That's what it's named after. Jul 19 10:15:17 twb: where do you live, btw Jul 19 10:15:22 Melbourne Jul 19 10:15:47 kangaroos :D Jul 19 10:16:45 twb: yes, I wasn't aware of that till I've visited it Jul 19 10:17:30 «When last I was in Cambridge, I stood atop the university church and heard the immortal words: "See that building over there? That's older than your country, that is." -- Martin Ellis» Jul 19 10:18:08 didn't make the connection Jul 19 10:19:03 * StayHungry looks up Martin Ellis Jul 19 10:20:47 my brain is full of disparate and seemingly random knowledge Jul 19 10:22:08 very post-modern :) Jul 19 10:27:38 StayHungry: one of my screenplays is subtitled "caught between post-modernism and the new age" Jul 19 10:28:45 bye for now - walk. /me is away Jul 19 10:28:59 give me that which is subtitled 'salvation lies within' :) Jul 19 10:30:19 StayHungry: "the Schwartz is in you" Jul 19 11:42:41 * rindolf is back from his walk - only the future will tell whether it is good news or not ;) Jul 19 11:44:09 powershell-preview_7.2.0-preview.7-1.deb_amd64.deb alone is 64MB, and that's- oh it appears to embed a copy of the CLR, which won't get security support Jul 19 11:44:42 i suspect we/the gods/etc. have free choice Jul 19 11:44:50 twb: that sucks Jul 19 11:46:24 How is this actually working? It's a single "pwsh" executable and a bunch of .dll's. Where's the CLR? Jul 19 11:46:58 i don't mind getting cracked, but i hate it when software crashes Jul 19 11:46:59 I'm not and not Jul 19 11:47:05 Can it access any of the system CLR libraries? Jul 19 11:47:08 But it's a huge improvement over their old thing Jul 19 11:47:28 pussipupu: are you talking about cmd.exe or about conhost? Jul 19 11:47:36 Not something I'd use on my own machines, cute that's another issue Jul 19 11:47:53 Because you can get rid of conhost without having to learn ps Jul 19 11:48:17 the former Jul 19 11:48:41 pussipupu: in that case just put bash.exe on a UNC share Jul 19 11:48:44 I'd rather just have a REPL with a real language, but one takes what one gets at work Jul 19 11:48:48 That's what I did back in 2001 Jul 19 11:49:47 twb: i think the CLR is inside the .dll files Jul 19 11:50:17 rindolf: yeah I expected that to be more obvious Jul 19 11:50:22 * StayHungry always suspected ##english is a covert agent of #powershell :D Jul 19 11:50:37 I made my dad use powershell for his ffmpeg-to-google script Jul 19 11:50:49 He doesn't like that double-click opens the IDE instead of just executing it Jul 19 11:51:10 StayHungry: hello, NSA! ;) Jul 19 11:55:08 StayHungry: the mossad can neither confirm nor deny having a secret cabal headed by https://mlp.fandom.com/wiki/Fluttershy Jul 19 11:56:53 Jul 19 11:57:21 twb: ah Jul 19 11:58:04 I'm not sure I dislike bash significantly less than PowerShell, and it's not my machine to be installing things on Jul 19 11:58:21 I never installed it on their machine Jul 19 11:58:38 OK Jul 19 11:59:02 I did ⌘+r \\twb-smb-server\blah\bash.exe \\twb-smb-server\blah\fix-problem.bash Jul 19 11:59:35 If I was doing it today I'd probably use lua. Also since Active Directory landed, that would probably complain that bash.exe wasn't signed. Jul 19 11:59:57 twb: I dislike reverse ageism - "you cannot teach an old dog new tricks" Jul 19 12:00:08 I only did that on NT 4.0 through Vista Jul 19 12:00:32 rindolf: paleophobia? Jul 19 12:00:52 twb: maybe Jul 19 12:04:27 twb: I was told and believe that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_II is "as sharp as a tack" and her retired husband certainly was Jul 19 12:05:44 How is that reverse ageism? Jul 19 12:06:24 ageism doesn't have a default direction even Jul 19 12:07:06 Precisely, like "reverse racism" there's no such thing. Jul 19 12:08:14 only reverse cowgirl left... Jul 19 12:08:42 eyeroll Jul 19 12:13:10 what's the word for mental communication with someone? Tele...something? Jul 19 12:13:59 telepathy Jul 19 12:14:06 telepathy Jul 19 12:14:22 mindmeld Jul 19 12:14:47 that, yes, thanks Jul 19 12:14:58 (telepathy, not mindmeld) Jul 19 12:15:20 blkshp: "the media" often portrays Liz II as senile. Jul 19 12:16:59 The UK media don't Jul 19 12:17:09 They often fawn over her though Jul 19 12:17:31 rindolf: Don't refer to Her Majesty as Liz II Jul 19 12:17:42 :D Jul 19 12:17:50 (or else) Jul 19 12:18:21 blkshp: i mean something like "my grandfather is too old to use Linux" Jul 19 12:18:39 That's just plain old ageism Jul 19 12:19:02 Babar: you got it. Jul 19 12:19:08 blkshp: heh. Lizzie 2.01b Jul 19 12:19:38 I will end you. Jul 19 12:19:47 * blkshp loads photon torpedo tubes Jul 19 12:20:18 royal family is still a thing? Jul 19 12:20:26 Yes. Jul 19 12:20:50 Sadly Jul 19 12:21:49 Not sadly. Jul 19 12:22:49 that's hardly the problem Jul 19 12:22:57 Not to you Jul 19 12:22:57 it's the stuff they stole that is Jul 19 12:23:09 here we go. Jul 19 12:23:13 It's not the largest problem but it's one of them :p Jul 19 12:23:34 I'd like to quote philosophytube's great video on the topic Jul 19 12:23:38 blkshp: photon torpedoes are no match against my EvilAntlers Jul 19 12:23:51 :D Jul 19 12:25:09 wonder how do they cope with that uncombed vulgar fellow who presumably rules the nation, i'd burn the shame Jul 19 12:25:27 *with shame Jul 19 12:25:39 You leave Boris be. Jul 19 12:26:06 no dear, that's britney Jul 19 12:26:33 blkshp: my EvilAntlers® more accurately - I am a trademark troll Jul 19 12:30:40 nonreverse agism is like "he's too young to write a novel/screenplay" Jul 19 12:34:41 rindolf: I don't agree with that Jul 19 12:36:54 twb: with which point i've made? Jul 19 12:37:12 rindolf: I disagree with 19:30 nonreverse agism is like "he's too young to write a novel/screenplay" Jul 19 12:37:43 twb: why? Jul 19 12:37:55 I think "agist" covers both "presidents must be at least 40 years old" and "fuck off out of our skate park, grandad" Jul 19 12:39:05 I suppose you might make a case that graduated minimum wage (i.e. McDonalds can pay a 14yo 20% less than an 18yo) is "reverse agism" Jul 19 12:40:49 twb: ah, i see. well, fair enough. we may need good terminology for both oppossites Jul 19 12:41:08 rindolf: just make up your own words Jul 19 12:41:19 e.g. ephebophobia, paleophobia Jul 19 12:43:24 twb: i see - Latin... Jul 19 12:43:53 twb: re mcD wage: https://www.crfashionbook.com/celebrity/a27409908/linda-evangelista-quote-10000-a-day/ Jul 19 12:44:34 or is it Greek Jul 19 12:45:22 rindolf: I don't understand the link to minimum wage Jul 19 12:45:42 rindolf: your link doesn't seem to mention "McDonalds", or "wage" at all Jul 19 12:48:54 A link to a non sequitur? Shocking Jul 19 12:50:31 twb: well, i mean : 1.some people's time is worth more. 2. mcD's workers likely have other venues of income and derive inspiration from serving Jul 19 12:52:47 they might also be getting paid much more now Jul 19 12:54:44 mcD workers might also be getting paid much more now Jul 19 12:59:08 << And, in fact, you can’t even be sure that the demand curve is downward sloping. The only reason we assumed that the demand curve is downward sloping is that we assumed things like “if Freddy is willing to buy a pair of sneakers for $130, he is certainly willing to buy those same sneakers for $20.” Right? Ha! Not if Freddy is an American teenager! American teenagers would not be caught dead in $20 sneakers. It’s, like, Jul 19 12:59:08 um, the death penalty? if you are wearing sneakers? that only cost $20 a pair? in school? I’m not joking around here: prices send signals. Movies in my town cost, I think, $11. Criminy. There used to be a movie theatre that had movies for $3. Did anyone go there? I DON’T THINK SO. It’s obviously just a dumping ground for lousy movies. Somebody is now at the bottom of the East River with $20.00 cement sneakers because they dar Jul 19 12:59:08 ed to tell the consumer which movies the industry thought were lousy.>> Jul 19 12:59:54 -- from https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2004/12/15/camels-and-rubber-duckies/ Jul 19 12:59:46 rindolf: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good Jul 19 13:00:18 Also related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemons_market Jul 19 13:01:12 twb: good link, thanks Jul 19 13:01:54 twb++ Jul 19 13:01:55 twb: +28, -1 = 27. Informative (1) Jul 19 13:02:58 .help ++ Jul 19 13:04:07 * saganman is now known as HubertFarnsworth Jul 19 13:07:40 woah, Rindolf is here Jul 19 13:08:07 Hey Rindolf, I am SaganMan from Freenode, twitter Jul 19 13:09:51 Did you not invent some kind of video communications device? Jul 19 13:14:26 HubertFarnsworth: hi, i remember you Jul 19 13:17:58 HubertFarnsworth: how are you? Jul 19 13:18:32 That's nice rindolf. I am okay. Surviving! Jul 19 13:18:44 How are you rindolf? Jul 19 13:19:35 HubertFarnsworth: I'm fine - philosophical Jul 19 13:20:40 HubertFarnsworth: trying to lose The-Game™ Jul 19 13:20:53 fine is good, what are you up to these days? reading anything good? Jul 19 13:23:37 HubertFarnsworth: sure - irc logs, random web pages,my screenplays, tweets: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tl;dr for the win for now Jul 19 13:24:09 StayHungry: that's not a quality that is common to all humans :-/ Jul 19 13:24:46 blkshp: Are you enjoying Wodehouse? Jul 19 13:25:21 rindolf: Haha. I always collected logs but never read them. Jul 19 13:25:22 HubertFarnsworth: i think in life, the walk can be better than the destination Jul 19 13:25:23 I enjoed the one about the cow creamer, yes! Jul 19 13:25:57 haha Jul 19 13:25:58 but i have decided im going to take them seperated by something else, I'm currently on Stephen King's Cujo. Jul 19 13:26:00 tinwhiskers: tragedies often embitter people, make them callous and detached. but some stay afloat. Jul 19 13:26:12 ah. I see. Jul 19 13:26:51 ah, Stephen King Jul 19 13:27:02 HubertFarnsworth: i mean i'm reading the real time chats i participate in Jul 19 13:27:19 I have a friend who insists it's supposed to be pronounced with an f instead of a v (the Stephen in Stephen King) Jul 19 13:27:22 ah I see Jul 19 13:28:10 huf: heh, he sounds stubborn Jul 19 13:29:08 rindolf: the destination is death and the walk at times is good but sucks mostly Jul 19 13:29:43 Relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6r6nhBcIbA Jul 19 13:30:19 my father keeps insisting that https://duckduckgo.com/Rosh_Hashanah?ia=web is not a chag Jul 19 13:32:25 HubertFarnsworth: you cannot physically die in The-Game™ Jul 19 13:44:01 StayHungry: i prefer crossover classical: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZd1GsRHVts Jul 19 13:44:53 rindolf: hooray for animation :D Jul 19 13:47:13 StayHungry: i love animations! disney, WB, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Little_Pony:_Friendship_Is_Magic ; the Muppets ; you name it Jul 19 13:47:30 random Jul 19 13:51:21 rindolf: 5 season is best Jul 19 13:51:29 especiall i mean first and latest episode Jul 19 13:51:33 especially* Jul 19 13:52:43 kompowiec: of MLP: fim? Jul 19 13:52:47 yep Jul 19 13:53:40 but I don't think I have finished watching the rest of the episodes until today. I think I ended up in the 7th season, I think. Jul 19 13:56:59 kompowiec: ah, i liked most episodes and also stopped watching after the end of season 7. i felt it ended well, and the novelty factor was gone.