May 22 14:24:50 GNU shouldn't move to a racist network. May 22 14:25:12 My two cents. May 22 14:25:37 But you guys do whatever you want. I won't be going on a racist network run by anti asians and anti indians. May 22 14:26:15 Hash: hi May 22 14:29:38 Hash: i think racism is a right at some level: https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/humanity/indiv-nodes/the-gate.xhtml May 22 14:31:01 what does Libera suddenly do that's racist? May 22 14:32:38 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGXx56WqqJw - .fr vs england May 22 14:33:46 * HawkinsTheWizard has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) May 22 14:34:26 * HawkinsTheWizard (~HawkinsTh@102.130.113.94) has joined May 22 14:36:14 * random-nick (~random-ni@unaffiliated/random-nick) has joined May 22 14:42:53 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaus_Copernicus#Nationality - .pl vs .de May 22 14:48:24 * nios34 (~nios34@li1203-187.members.linode.com) has joined May 22 15:11:40 * maknho__ (~maknho@unaffiliated/maknho) has joined May 22 15:14:06 * maknho_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) May 22 15:29:06 * CrystalMath (~coderain@reactos/developer/theflash) has joined May 22 15:31:02 Hash: Nice attempt. I do not know all details about this, but on the surface, objecting to something someone with a certain racial (in the US-American sense) background does, or even not linking that person at all, does not imply racism. May 22 15:31:17 s:linking:liking: May 22 15:31:42 A bit more evidence might be useful with such a claim. May 22 15:32:43 * Nav|C has quit (Quit: Nav|C) May 22 15:35:14 * nios34 has quit (Remote host closed the connection) May 22 15:36:20 is this about Andrew Lee? May 22 15:36:34 http://techrights.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/lee-side.pdf May 22 15:37:19 * JorgeMorais (~user@189.6.35.8) has joined May 22 15:37:22 * Dyedefra (~foobar@fsf/member/Dyedefra) has joined May 22 15:37:59 * thrill_seeker (~thrill_se@25.red-88-7-90.staticip.rima-tde.net) has joined May 22 15:41:55 hi hackers May 22 15:47:49 I'm not convinced it's about anything, just baseless claims May 22 15:47:53 hi Dyedefra May 22 15:54:29 AliciaC: CrystalMath : i side on the existing *.freenode.net takeover management. the libra.chat ppl drove freenode.net down withh their authoritarianism May 22 15:55:39 rindolf: absolutely! hear hear! May 22 15:55:49 rindolf: we're in full agreement :) May 22 15:55:54 and - you can quote me on that May 22 15:56:08 CrystalMath: hi, sup? May 22 15:56:15 hi! May 22 15:57:27 "drove freenode.net down"? it's up though May 22 15:57:44 * pointfree (uid204397@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cdniyiakqxjcmeyp) has joined May 22 15:58:50 AliciaC: i mean - 'made it less popular' May 22 15:59:12 CrystalMath: « May 22 15:59:12 «When people agree with me I always feel I must be wrong. » Oscar Wilde . May 22 16:00:22 CrystalMath: but this time i am happy you agree May 22 16:00:43 i'm happy too May 22 16:01:05 i'm 100% with Andrew Lee and the new management, if that wasn't obvious from my messages everywhere yesterday May 22 16:01:33 * nios34 (~nios34@li1203-187.members.linode.com) has joined May 22 16:03:11 I don't have much of an opinion about Andrew Lee. Libera is kind of just "same old Freenode", which I know to be good May 22 16:03:13 hi rindolf , CrystalMath , AliciaC May 22 16:04:20 AliciaC: libera is the same old freenode which i know to be bad, and which i wanted to leave; and now's my chance May 22 16:04:28 i just won't go there May 22 16:04:43 the new freenode however is more like rizon, which is amazing May 22 16:05:02 Dyedefra: hi, what are the good news? May 22 16:05:02 that's fair May 22 16:05:21 AliciaC: also those people signed the anti-RMS letter May 22 16:05:28 I don't know rizon or how it differs from old Freenode May 22 16:05:37 oh :/ May 22 16:05:43 rindolf: must we trust in libera? May 22 16:06:06 * thrill_seeker has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) May 22 16:06:17 Dyedefra: i would never trust libera May 22 16:06:42 CrystalMath: mmm I agree May 22 16:06:57 Im not sure May 22 16:08:21 * TheCreeper has quit (Quit: Leaving) May 22 16:09:26 * berndj (~berndj@ns1.linksynergy.co.za) has left ("the great libera migration") May 22 16:09:35 Dyedefra: not gonna bther with them for now May 22 16:09:40 CrystalMath: https://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/culture/case-for-commercial-fan-fiction/indiv-nodes/hacking_and_amateur__vs__conformism_and_professional.xhtml May 22 16:12:20 * neox has quit (Remote host closed the connection) May 22 16:14:46 CrystalMath: "those people signed …", you know how many of those? I wonder if there is a clear connection or just an intersection of opinions on RMS and freenode governance in some of them, not necessarily related. May 22 16:15:07 sobukus: 5 of them May 22 16:15:33 but like, when i look at the libera staff, it's basically just 2 of these and nobody else; and of the people hanging around it's another one of these May 22 16:15:44 Aaron Jones is the only one with libera/staff/* May 22 16:17:16 to clarify, you say that 2 of the signers are part of libera staff, among other people? Or that there are no other people? May 22 16:18:03 It's really hard to get an informed opinion when not being really inside the circles. May 22 16:18:19 sobukus: 5 of ex-freenode staff are signers; but i only find 2 of these to be libera staff (that can't be right but i can't find any more at all) May 22 16:18:21 Read that pdf, I still don't believe lee's side of the story May 22 16:18:41 sobukus: and i mean i can't find more than 2 libera staff members May 22 16:19:05 the way he presents things just reeks of bs and selectiveness May 22 16:19:09 I've read the PDF… also the chat logs adriane published (not sure if that's a decent act … same as the private chats Lee published). May 22 16:19:16 It's murky for me. May 22 16:19:18 CrystalMath: i hope freenode becomes popular among ppl who love their work (neoamateurs/'geeks'): https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/Emma-Watson-applying-for-a-software-dev-job/#reception - «I think we would hire Emma Watson based on looks alone. ☺» — glange on Freenode’s #objectivism. May 22 16:20:55 and he did not address former staff's claim about christel did not clarify the former staff about the deal May 22 16:21:00 ...before resigning May 22 16:21:41 ...so that the former staff did not know what was sold to lee May 22 16:21:45 I guess the most interesting stuff happened before 2021. May 22 16:22:04 dragestil: personally, if this is going to be about who i *want* to control freenode; then it's definitely not the old freenode staff May 22 16:22:17 there's numerous reasons to stay away from those people, and therefore OFTC and libera May 22 16:22:22 and lee's promise about not taking operational control May 22 16:22:46 dragestil: the thing is, the old freenode staff were *not* good people, they were extremely authoritarian May 22 16:22:54 and also used other methods to harrass users of the network May 22 16:23:02 whose political opinions did not align with theirs May 22 16:23:50 Problem here is perhaps that the vast majority of users never had any contact with the staff. May 22 16:24:10 So all we get is hearsay from both (or multiple) sides:-/ May 22 16:24:12 CrystalMath: I don't have anything new to say about your hatred towards former freenode staff May 22 16:24:27 yeah, that's why their evils are kept hidden, but kreyren at least is amassing all the proof against them May 22 16:24:50 i really should have logged stuff :( May 22 16:25:19 i should have prepared a nice package for the day that those people finally lose their power, so that they can be outed as the evil conniving group that they are May 22 16:26:00 let's stop with the name calling and talking behind people's back May 22 16:28:34 no May 22 16:28:49 bandali: i'm sorry, i'll wait for kreyren to gather the evidence May 22 16:29:01 i'm just a little frustrated that this could have been more obvious May 22 16:29:45 and i'm concerned about all the people who will leave because we didn't publish the evidence on time :( May 22 16:31:06 * tagomago has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) May 22 16:32:39 Maybe you can help me clear up the sides of the battle (if not who is Right™ right now). I see tomaw is head of OFTC. OTFC and freenode split apart some time ago but also started to cooperate … to the point of tomaw also becoming head of freenode? Are those leaving for libera associated with OFTC, or the remaining freenode in some way? May 22 16:34:37 CrystalMath: i welcome the old freenode staff back per Saladin's ethics: http://shlomifishswiki.branchable.com/Saladin_Style/ May 22 16:35:08 rindolf: i wouldn't want them to be staff again, but sure they can join channels as regular users May 22 16:35:36 sobukus: OFTC k-lines people who support RMS, so there's that May 22 16:38:51 * tagomago (~tagomago@80.224.176.172.dyn.user.ono.com) has joined May 22 16:39:31 sobukus: but yes OFTC will maybe group with libera, not the new freenode May 22 16:39:53 i would recommend avoiding oftc and libera May 22 16:40:18 (but my evidence on tomaw is too slim to explain why, there's a bit of a hunch involved) May 22 16:40:30 CrystalMath: So … we got 3 networks that are supposed to foster technical discussion about software projects, and which battle about politics. Two of them seem likely to build an alliance. May 22 16:40:43 sobukus: maybe not though May 22 16:40:47 i wouldn't call it likely May 22 16:40:53 just possible, while the other is impossible May 22 16:41:08 Heh, relatively likely, then;-) May 22 16:41:44 i really haven't seen much libera staff there at all, just anti-RMS people like adfj and jose May 22 16:41:53 (they are signatories of the letter) May 22 16:42:06 and OFTC seems to be tomaw May 22 16:42:08 There's so much unfortunate stuff going on. May 22 16:42:42 People should be more able to disagree in a civilized manner. May 22 16:44:21 * zebrag has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) May 22 16:44:39 * zebrag (~inkbottle@alagny-155-1-30-195.w83-200.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined May 22 16:58:33 https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreplanet-se/2021-05/msg00005.html May 22 16:59:23 * thrill_seeker (~thrill_se@25.red-88-7-90.staticip.rima-tde.net) has joined May 22 16:59:29 Would be cool if Swedish digital currency uses gnu taler May 22 17:02:41 * thrill_seeker has quit (Client Quit) May 22 17:04:03 * EchelonX (~EchelonX@cpe-173-88-115-50.columbus.res.rr.com) has joined May 22 17:06:41 Yeah, taler seems nice. May 22 17:09:26 i prefer cash May 22 17:13:13 Why, taler is anonymous for prayers May 22 17:13:14 Sure, but as long as you have to go digital (like, bank transfers at all), Taler seemed OK to me. May 22 17:13:17 payers May 22 17:13:55 i mean, i will always avoid computers whenever i can May 22 17:14:42 my priority is: no software > free software > non-commercial proprietary software May 22 17:14:54 and the rest is not used May 22 17:14:56 It should tell you something that when it comes to computer tech / software being in control of things, the people who know more about it tend to be more afraid of it. While normally, you are afraid of things you _don't_ know. May 22 17:37:49 * KUrare_ (~KUrare@unaffiliated/kurare) has joined May 22 17:38:20 CrystalMath: rindolf: i wouldn't want them to be staff again, but sure they can join channels as regular users ==> yes, May 22 17:39:08 rindolf: well some of them are still connected to freenode in fact, just not on nearly as many channels as before May 22 17:39:27 we also shudnt rest on our laurels May 22 17:43:33 * tagomago has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) May 22 17:43:53 CrystalMath: i talked w a girl w a dog in the park about my https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Terminator/Liberation/ongoing-text.html screenplay. she was friendly, looked great and had an oriental complexion, and her dog ended up liking me too,, May 22 17:44:20 * zebrag has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) May 22 17:44:39 * zebrag (~inkbottle@alagny-155-1-30-195.w83-200.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined May 22 17:45:14 CrystalMath: i want to tweet about the freenode coup May 22 17:46:24 Sat 22 May 17:46:24 IDT 2021 May 22 17:47:48 rindolf: hmm? May 22 17:48:28 * tagomago (~tagomago@80.224.176.172.dyn.user.ono.com) has joined May 22 17:55:37 CrystalMath: BTW, for a while now : free/open/remix→more money: https://twitter.com/shlomif/status/1378421699142635525 «Whether #TaylorSwift gets the rights for her old songs back or not, it wont change the fact that eventho theyre her brainchildren, they belong2 noone&everyone (who can cover, remix them, & listen to them). Neither tay nor her recordlabel will likely go bankrupt soon.» May 22 17:55:47 * MattMadness has quit (Quit: Leaving.) May 22 17:57:17 CrystalMath: i went on a walk w my dad and there is a dogs' enclsure May 22 18:00:26 * nios34 has quit (Remote host closed the connection) May 22 18:04:26 * EchelonX has quit (Quit: Leaving) May 22 18:04:58 * wolftune (~aaron@97-120-60-216.ptld.qwest.net) has joined May 22 18:23:21 CrystalMath: did you understand? May 22 18:25:51 rindolf: hmm? May 22 18:26:07 i'm not familiar with the Taylor Swift song ownership thing May 22 18:30:47 * c2f0 (~c2f0@217.138.221.253) has joined May 22 18:31:06 CrystalMath: ah, the contract with her old record label ended May 22 18:32:24 * eden (~nanoz@gateway/tor-sasl/nanoz) has joined May 22 18:33:47 CrystalMath: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=taylor+swift+contract&atb=v140-1&ia=web May 23 06:05:35 rindolf: christel is also not bad, she was actually keeping the staff somewhat moderate; after she quit they were unhinged May 23 06:05:43 err not rindolf, river ^ May 23 06:15:49 CrystalMath: ah May 23 06:16:17 honestly, with libera you're not getting the old freenode, because it's missing christel, who was harrassed and ousted this march May 23 06:16:45 now, if she created a new network, that would be different May 23 06:17:32 there was only one hostile takeover at freenode, and it happened this march, not now May 23 06:31:15 CrystalMath: it's also missing tomaw / oftc overlap tho, so May 23 06:31:38 rbraun_: but it has everyone else May 23 06:31:48 and most of them are okay, idk May 23 06:31:49 also according to jess tomaw should be there... May 23 06:32:00 i must have not done the command correctly