Freenode #perl Conversations - (Fortunes Cookies) Shlomi Fish's Collection

Documentation for BL

rindolf	buu: do you have a working manual of BL?
rindolf	s/working/up-to-date/
buu	It's kind of sort of up to date
perlygatekeeper	he means NO
buu	I've got some docs!
rindolf	buu: do you have a functional spec? An architecture document? An interface whitepaper? A developer's guide? A user manual? A "The BL-Book" and "BL - The Program"?
buu	rindolf: no, no, no no and no

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Discussing the merits of documenting one's pet languages on

Did anybody see my newline at Freenode's #perl channel.

rindolf	sleeper: why are people obsessed with one-liners?
rindolf	It takes 3 lines - OMG what a disaster!
Botje	rindolf: newline prices went up again
rindolf	Botje: I buy my newlines in the black market
dabreegster	Botje: again? drat.
* Botje	reports rindolf to the newline police
dabreegster	Botje: I know about an... (underground) operation going on to pirate newlines.
rindolf	Botje: I bribed a few cops in the newline police, but nice try.
dabreegster	Botje: Some crazy guys are trying to free newlines from patents! They want to rid the market!
* cursor	gets called up to serve in the newline jury
rindolf	I think we need to start a campaign to lift all restrictions off newlines.
dabreegster	rindolf: La Resistance lives on!\n
Botje	I already stockpiled millions of newlines
dabreegster	Botje: We can have the one-liners destroyed by sundown
dabreegster	Not destroyed, but... TURNED INTO TWO-LINERS! Mwuhahaha!

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	The Cost of Newlines

Verbing the verb on Freenode's #perl

* buu	Stevie[FP] with a plunger.
* Stevie[FP]	looks for the verb in that sentence
sili	i think you're missing a verb
Stevie[FP]	I think he's missing a brain.
sili	unless Stevie[FP] is a verb i don't know
sili	Stevie[FP]: v. see Stevie[FP]
Stevie[FP]	I am not a verb!
sili	you've been verbatized
* rindolf	Stevie[FP]'s Chris62vw
Stevie[FP]	verbalized?
rindolf	Stevie[FP]: verbalized is a different thing.
rindolf	Stevie[FP]: it comes from "verbal".
Stevie[FP]	Verbified.
Stevie[FP]	Verbiated.
rindolf	stefan: verbificated.
Botje	verbed.
Stevie[FP]	Verberated.
rindolf	Stevie[FP]: verberation is overrated.

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Verbing the Verb

Human XML

BarnacleBob	i hate xml.....
mcrawfor	<response to="BarnacleBob">indeed</response>
rindolf	mcrawfor: :-)
rindolf	mcrawfor++ # Nice joke
Botje	ehm. ouch.
Botje	rindolf: no!
Botje	<postincrement comment="Nice joke">mcrawfor</postincrement>
rindolf	Botje: LOL.
rindolf	<postincrement comment="As you wish">Botje</postincrement>

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Human XML

/me (or I, you or we) is finding it amusing on Freenode's #perl.

* __you	fart
* __you	say "oops"
rindolf	__you: heh
* __you	kick rindolf
__you	(rindolf, you're now being kicked by 435 people)
squeeks	__you need to go outside.
kspath	__you: Who owns you?
* __you	go outside
* __you	are pwned by dazjorz
* __you	is now known as we
* we	are having a useless off-topic conversation right now
rindolf	we: hahah
* we	we is now known as __you
* __you	decide this channel is now useless and decide to leave
* simcop2387	is now known as we
* we	are not amused
* __you	and I are together simcop2387
* squeeks	is now known as _I_
* _I_	need to tell __you something
* __you	listen
* simcop2387	is now known as we
* we	need help
* _I_	think we are getting a bit sick of the shenanigans
rindolf	I'm so making a fortune out of it.
* we	want to be on bash.org

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	/me (or I, you or we) is finding it amusing

Multi-linguality

spyro_boy	Oh! I fixed it :D
spyro_boy	Yay :D
rindolf	spyro_boy: congrats!
spyro_boy	Thanks for your help, everyone. :)
rindolf	spyro_boy: now you should translate this script to O'Caml, Haskell, Perl 6.
spyro_boy	rindolf, huh?
rindolf	spyro_boy: Smalltalk, C, C++, Visual Basic...
spyro_boy	rindolf, translate to what?
rindolf	spyro_boy: to all these programming languages.
spyro_boy	haha
spyro_boy	rindolf, yeah.
rindolf	Because a script in perl is Not Enough<tm>.
rindolf	spyro_boy: but see the Great Computer Language Shootout.
spyro_boy	rindolf, I tried learning C,C++, and Java, but I couldn't catch on.

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Mulit-linguality

Chuck Norris and Perl 6

rindolf	wankit
buubot	Perl 6, unlike most people, is able to breathe in the vacuum of space. In fact, anything else would damage its respiratory system. Because of this, whenever it's visiting Earth, it wears a respirator, which resembles a kickass beard.
rindolf	Heh heh.
rindolf	Are all of buubot's wankit factoids about Perl 6?
rindolf	He should have some about Chuck Norris, too.
merlyn	fictional factoids about a partially designed, partially implemented, partially wanted language. :)
rindolf	merlyn: yeah.
merlyn	Heh - those are all Chuck Norris quotes with s/Chuck/P6/
dabreegster	rindolf: It's written in Chuck Norris, right
merlyn	Chuck Norris writes code in Perl 6. Before Larry's done. And it works.
rindolf	merlyn: Chuck Norris wrote Perl 6 in a day but then destroyed all evidence with his bare hands, so no one will know his secrets.

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Discussing the merits of documenting one's pet languages on

Is a Life Ready for Prime Time?

rindolf	LeoNerd: I need to get a life.
LeoNerd	They can be quite useful, but they do have a crazy amount of dependencies..
LeoNerd	And sometimes they can be a bit unstable - I think they're still beta-testing

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Is a Life Ready for Prime Time

#perl for Elisabeth

simcop2387	Daveman: i use a ZED PEE EM to power my computer, its the ultimate YOU PEE ES
* Daveman	throws an Elisabeth at Simcop
rindolf	Me catches the Elisabeth in mid-air.
SubStack	with an s, excellent choice
Daveman	:o
Daveman	Interception!
rindolf	Daveman: when my friend and I played Frisbee, we had an intra-tree move.
* SubStack	pirates Elisabeth and seeds a torrent
rindolf	Which was unintended.
rindolf	Elisabeth: are you here?
Daveman	HAHAHAHHA
Daveman	Substack++
* SubStack	wins at life.
rindolf	An Elisabeth for all! And all for an Elisabeth.

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	#perl for Elisabeth

Books for Learning Perl

Alexi5	what is a good book for getting up to speed with perl?
merlyn	learning perl!
merlyn	intermediate perl!
nachos_	the camel is the _only book_
nachos_	:-P
* merlyn	bats nachos silly
nachos_	:-(
rindolf	Alexi5: there's also Beginning Perl, which is available online.
* f00li5h	saw that coming
rindolf	You should learn Perl from "Learning Perl in 24 minutes Unleashed!"
f00li5h	rindolf: ``Learning perl in 24 minutes Unleashed, in a nutshell for dummies'' is the one i have
rindolf	f00li5h: that's even better.

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Books for Learning Perl

Discussing Vintage Hypertext on Freenode's #perl

rindolf	Are you using Firefox?
Imaginativeone	yeah...
rindolf	Interesting...
rindolf	Don't know.
[x86]	use a real browser... you know... like IE!
* [x86]	runs
infi	IE 3 > *
rindolf	IE 2 > *
infi	gopher!
infi	firefox can actually do gopher URLs
rindolf	GNU info!
infi	feh.

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Vintage Hypertext

Free as in what?

rindolf	ofer0: what's up?
ofer0	rindolf, nothing much. what's with you?
rindolf	ofer0: I restored my fonts to my nouveau-enabled X server.
jagerman	What is nouveau?
ofer0	jagerman, "new" in french ?
jagerman	Yes, I know it's a word, but what is the nouveau rindolf is talking about?
ofer0	I have no idea. rindolf ?
rindolf	jagerman, ofer0: it's the free-as-in-speech Nvidia drivers.
dmq	jagerman++ (Yes i know its a word).
pkrumins	free as in freedom
nainef	free as in richard stallman?
ofer0	free as in free Microsoft Windows Vista CDs
nainef	lol
pkrumins	vista--
ofer0	"What do you mean? Windows XP isn't free?" -- My neighbour.
Ikarus	ofer0: sounds familiar
ofer0	(when telling him that I can't format his hard-drive and re-install XP because he doesn't own a license)

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Free as in what?

The Only Programming Language

rindolf	This reminds me of a fun discussion I had with my co-worker.
rindolf	He had a Firefox window open with an ActiveState page and I read "Perl, PHP, Python, Tcl, XSLT".
rindolf	So he said: "Heresy! C is the only language."
rindolf	So I thought for a moment and said "Intercal is the only language."
nanonyme	lol
rindolf	And then "Real men write in Intercal."
rindolf	"COME FROM" anyone?

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	The Only Programming Language

Misleading Textbooks about Perl

rindolf	mortal5: you need to print the header.
rindolf	mortal5: print header()
mortal5	rindolf, ...I absolutely love it when my textbook leads me wrong..
rindolf	mortal5: what is your textbook?
mortal5	"web wizards guide to perl and cgi"
mortal5	lol
mortal5	only the finest for the students at my university
buu	Hahaha
buu	That's awesome.
cfedde	Is this what we're teacing these days? Oh my.
somian	Blows the mind, doesn't it cfedde!
cfedde	somian: it does.
cfedde	I suppose that I'm commenting out of context. but why the mix and match.
f3ew	What mind?
cfedde	yours, with this .48
* somian	sends in CSI las vegas to clean up
rindolf	mortal5: what is your university?
mortal5	rindolf, I'm too ashamed to tell :p
rindolf	mortal5: heh.
rindolf	mortal5: is it bad?
mortal5	rindolf, no not really, we have a fairly well known cs dept
somian	Just so long as it isn't SUNY@BUFFALO
mortal5	it's just the teacher i'm using, she's a total flake

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Misleading Textbooks about Perl

Perl, dongs and everything between on Freenode's #perl

* CPAN	rating: Net-DNS-Check rated 4 stars by Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
rindolf	Oooh! avar has rated a module.
somian^{}	avar! WHAT ARE YOU DOING rating CPAN modules!?! Do you really think you are QUALIFIED to be doing that!?! ;-P
* avar	dongs somian^{}
* somian^{}	laughs
avar	somian^{}: I'M A PROFESSIONAL PERL PROGRAMMER
avar	I know PERL
somian^{}	But can u mAke teh weB with teh PERL!?
Earle_Martin	avar: I know DONGS
avar	Earle_Martin: SHOW ME
avar	Earle_Martin: Don't you mean DONG foo?
* somian^{}	has a silly grin on his face as he decends the stairs to make some fresh coffee
avar	somian^{}: I maek teh web really well with PERL
Earle_Martin	/DCC MATRIX avar
avar	Earle_Martin: IT'S SO LARGE AND HARD!
Earle_Martin	avar: You think that's milk you're drinking?
f3ew	heh]
avar	I was wondering why it was so delcicious
avar	"I can't belive it's not jizz"
f3ew	Take the red pill
rfordinal_	blue!
Earle_Martin	I know PERL: Programmer's Elite Robotic Language
* avar	goes back to work
Shadow42	I wonder what would happen if Neo was colorblind and took the wrong pill.
Earle_Martin	10 DO ROBOT DANCE
Earle_Martin	20 GOTO 10
avar	which doesn't involving discussing dongs in great detail, unfortunately
Earle_Martin	avar: the real world sucks

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Perl and Dongs on Freenode's #perl

N-uple negative on Freenode's #perl

polak	mauke: so how does that "translate" into eng
merlyn	"eng"?
mauke	I spe eng goo
rindolf	mauke: I spe eng wel
rindolf	I spe goo eng
sts	just a short question. besides personal preference is there any difference if you use if(! or unless(?
rindolf	sts: no.
rindolf	sts: they do the same thing.
Botje	sts: pfft. Real Men(tm) use unless(!...)
rindolf	Botje: heh.
sts	lol unless(! makes sense. thanks Botje, i'll rather use this one. =D
LeoNerd	For me it's a readability thing - I express what seems more likely
rindolf	Botje: File::HomeDir used to have a triple or quadruple negative in one of its test files.
Botje	unless(! $str !~ /(?!foo)/)
rindolf	Botje: heh
merlyn	whoa
merlyn	unless (!) makes no sense to me at all
Botje	of course not.
sts	Botje: wow!
Botje	it's still cool to confuse people with :]
LeoNerd	Heh.. Should just use !!! in there anywa y:)
merlyn	it's 7 characters too many
xand	some people don't understand double negatives
merlyn	I don't want no complaints!
Botje	xand: you mean don't not understnad?
LeoNerd	We don't know nobody who don't want no double-negatives
sts	Botje: what does (?!foo) do?
nanonyme	lol
xand	Botje: don't not misunderstand
mauke	Botje: that always executes the block
merlyn	there's an argument that can be successfully made that "I don't want no complaints" doesn't necessarily work logically
Botje	xand: oh, I don't not think I didn't not misunderstand you.
Botje	mauke: I know. it just looks cool.
mauke	and you want !($str !~ /.../)
xand	don't you?#
merlyn	so it might actually mean what people think they're meaning

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	N-uple negative on Freenode's #perl

My operating system is better than yours on Freenode's #perl

Yaakov	LINUX < WINDOWS XP
rindolf	Yaakov: Linux ">" x Inf Windows XP
rindolf	Yaakov: DOS > Linux
rindolf	Yaakov: CTSS > Linux
rindolf	Yaakov: TOPS-10 > Linux
rindolf	Multics > Linux
rindolf	Multics > *
rindolf	I think I'll stop.
Supaplex	I think I'll /clear
Kobaz	CP/M > *
rindolf	Kobaz: heh!
rindolf	Kobaz++
Kobaz	Heh.
Kobaz	CP/M was teh sexy.
Kobaz	How much more of an OS do you really need?
Kobaz	I still have my Apple II sitting in the corner.

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	My Operating System is Better than Yours

Freenode's #perl on the many types of Wheels.

rindolf	Mahmoud: what's up?
Mahmoud	rindolf, writing a CMS from scratch with perl.. really cool, making my own template engine
rindolf	Mahmoud: why???
rindolf	Mahmoud: use TT2.
rindolf	Or whatever.
Mahmoud	rindolf, i dislike other CMS engines.. they are bloated and i don't trust them
rindolf	Mahmoud: TT2 is pure perl.
* Mahmoud	looks for TT2
rindolf	Mahmoud: a CMS doesn't stay simple forever.
rindolf	Mahmoud: and a CMS != Templating system.
Mahmoud	rindolf, the template engine is quite simple, it's similar to how SimpleMachines forum does its templates
Mahmoud	rindolf, just an external file with print 'foo'; commands
amnesiac	Mahmoud, TT2 is very powerful
amnesiac	Mahmoud, there are more templating systems, why not use any ofo the existing ones?
rindolf	Mahmoud: please don't re-invent square wheels.
Mahmoud	heh..
NOTevil	oval!
* amnesiac	likes hexagonal wheels
NOTevil	very small octagon wheels aren't too bad.
rindolf	amnesiac: triangular wheels are the best!
Shaine	i like star shaped wheels :/

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	On the Many Types of Wheels

The Pyramid of Code Golf on Freenode's #perl

ferret	LeoNerd: That was one of the first blobs of Java I wrote, it's allowed to be even more verbose and convoluted than Java normally is. ;P
rindolf	ferret: link?
ferret	/las Cat.java
rindolf	ferret: an implementation of the UNIX "cat" program in Java??
ferret	Actually, specifically the GNU cat program, and only a subset thereof.
rindolf	ferret: oh.
rindolf	ferret: how many lines did it take?
* f00li5h	heads off to #codegolf and tries to convince them to allow java submissions
ferret	rindolf: It's mostly argument parser.
rindolf	ferret: I once implemented a parser for a subset of the Bourne Shell args, in really hideous ANSI C.
rindolf	f00li5h: good luck.
rindolf	f00li5h: Java Golf...
f00li5h	yeah, for sure!
rindolf	Java Golf would be longer than a non-Golfed Perl program.
f00li5h	rindolf: this is true
rindolf	f00li5h: COBOL Golf!

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	The Pyramid of Code Golf

Scary Perl Expertise on Freenode's #perl

pasteling	"struggling intern" at 129.162.1.31 pasted "Here it is.." (220 lines, 5.7K) at http://sial.org/pbot/25279
strugglingintern	woohoo
strugglingintern	there it goes...
rindolf	strugglingintern: oh my god!
rindolf	strugglingintern: this code looks really bad.
strugglingintern	heh...
rindolf	strugglingintern: if ($records eq 0 ) - don't you want ($records == 0)?
rindolf	strugglingintern: do you have unit tests?
rindolf	strugglingintern: and you should factor it better.
rindolf	strugglingintern: and possibly use Template Toolkit or something.
rindolf	strugglingintern: and you may have some HTML-injection (or XSS) problems.
Ani-_	rindolf: and probably SQL injection problems.
rindolf	Ani-_: indeed!
strugglingintern	:-/
Ani-_	strugglingintern: really, ask them to review that code when they get back.
strugglingintern	alright
strugglingintern	I appreciate it anyway
rindolf	strugglingintern: how long have you been programming perl?
strugglingintern	hah, about 3 months
strugglingintern	This isn't all my code ;)
strugglingintern	I'll look into it
strugglingintern	Thanks guys (and gals).
rindolf	strugglingintern: you're welcome.
strugglingintern	not my choice ;)
strugglingintern	it's my 3rd week here :)
rindolf	Amazing how much more experienced programmers can tell a code is bad from a quick glance.
rindolf	It's a bit scary.
Ani-_	nothing amazing about it. It's called skill. :)
The_SB	yeh even I can tell it by a look
ology	It's not scary or amazing at all.
ology	It is called experience!
Ani-_	rindolf: what do you find scary?
Ani-_	rindolf: that experienced programmers can tell it? Or the code itself?
Ani-_	I would disagree on the first one but agree on the later! :)
rindolf	Ani-_: no, that I'm so experienced.
rindolf	Ani-_: I hope I don't sound out as a snob.
ology	narcissism is fun
rindolf	I should get a life.
rindolf	Get a girlfriend, go to movies.
rindolf	Instead all I do is write Perl.
rindolf	And chat about writing Perl.
Ikarus	a life, tried that, didn't mix with me

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Scary Perl Expertise

(Human) Language Fun on Freenode's #perl

rindolf	Let me wikipedia it.
f00li5h	so now wikipedia is a verb?
rindolf	f00li5h: it's gonna enter the OED.
rindolf	f00li5h: in English every verb can be nounified and every noun can be verbed.
rindolf	f00li5h: google is now a verb too.
f00li5h	rindolf: q{ just one second and i'll "computer" it up for you"}
rindolf	f00li5h: LOL.
rindolf	f00li5h++
* rindolf	f00li5hes jql
rindolf	I'm rindolfed
* f00li5h	finds it odd that irssi hilighted half of that word
rindolf	f00li5h: it's much harder to do it in Hebrew.
jql	computer is from the verb compute already
rindolf	jql: there's computerise though.
f00li5h	jql: but to computer something is different than computing it
f00li5h	COMPUTIFY!
rindolf	jql: I once thought that the study of Objectivity is Objectivism.
f00li5h	"configurated"
jql	you shouldn't noun up a verb that's been nouned already
rindolf	And the study of Objectivism is Objectivistalism.
Caelum	heh
rindolf	And that study of that is Objectvisitalistalism.
rindolf	And to infinity it's Objectivist-elementalism!
f00li5h	eval: object .((ism)x100)
buubot	f00li5h: objectismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismism ismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismism ismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismi
rindolf	With apologies to the 4 people who ever spoke Latin correctly.
jql	I can't help but read that as smi smi smi
Caelum	me too
rindolf	jql: reminds me of Peter Pan.

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	(Human) Language Fun on Freenode's #perl

How many clicks must a one man do, before he selects what he wants on Freenode's #perl.

dkr	I use nedit, the only app with a quadruple-click feature
naquad	wtf is quadruple-click??? %-/
dkr	double-click selects a word, triple-click selects a line, quadruple-click select the whole document. heh :)
Patterner	quintuple-click selects the whole harddisk
rindolf	hexuple-click selects the entire Intranet.
rindolf	And septapable-click selects the entire Internet
Patterner	How many for the multiverse?
naquad	people, who uses what editor?
arw	octaple click selects the known universe and nonaple the rest too.
rindolf	arw: how long does it takes these clicks to run?
rindolf	I think it's super-exponential complexity.
arw	rindolf: no matter, the universe is finite :)
arw	rindolf: only problem is, the information about your clicking will never reach the entire universe as it expands ;)

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	How many clicks must a one man do, before he selects what he wants?

The meaning of "I" on Freenode's #perl.

* reflexive	huzzahs. His Perl books just arrived.
apeiron	reflexive, Which?
reflexive	apeiron: IP and PBP. A couple others are still in transit.
apeiron	reflexive, Nice. :)
reflexive	:)
rindolf	reflexive: what is IP?
reflexive	Intermediate Perl.
rindolf	reflexive: oh, OK.
rindolf	Intellectual Perl.
rindolf	Internet Perl.
kojiro	Invasive Perl
kspath	Idiot Perl
rindolf	Interactive Perl.
rindolf	I, Perl.
kojiro	Implementing Pies
kojiro	mmm, pie
rindolf	Improbably Perl
kspath	Ignoble Perl
kojiro	Probably Inverted
rindolf	kojiro: :-)
kspath	Improper Perl
reflexive	Insidious Perl?
mst	ALL PERL IS IMPROPER
kojiro	API?
rindolf	In Soviet Russia all improper is Perl.
rindolf	APII.
qrck	impudent perl
kojiro	no, you never count words like "is"
kspath	Incoherent Perl
kojiro	ALL PERL IS INCOHERENT
reflexive	So true.

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	The Meaning of "I".

Got the Slashdot? on Freenode's #perl.

dkr	which is that ACME:: filter that obfusctaes all your source into whitespace? :)
preaction	Acme::Bleach
rindolf	dkr: as preaction said it is Acme::Bleach.
dkr	moderation -1 Redundant
* dkr	smirks
nws	get out you slashdotter
nws	jk
dkr	I got moderated overrated yesterday. I felt so loved
dkr	GumbyGumby: how often do you post to /.?
GumbyGumby	dkr: do it to system() a ssh command. Is doing that often.
rindolf	GumbyBRAIN: how often do you post dkr to Slashdot?
GumbyBRAIN	do it to list.

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Got the Slashdot?

What's in a variable-name? on Freenode's #perl.

WebDragon	y'all should spell it in uppercase it being an acronym and all
reaction	Yes, but we're lazy!
* WebDragon	so noticed ;)
dkr	WebDragon: people that use CamelCase have no right to criticize about capitalization. :)
WebDragon	dkr: I hate underscores
* dkr	contemplates a source code filter that does lets you use spaces in var names by switch them to underscores at compile time
preaction	black magic
mst	dkr: source filters are evil.
mst	dkr: in a bad way.
mst	dkr: hacking the compiler is much more fun, and evil in a useful way :)
mst	WebDragon: recommended perl style is $var_name
mst	WebDragon: it's also more readable than $varName or $VarName
mst	WebDragon: I'd recommend trying it for at least a month
mst	WebDragon: also note that it'll make life easier because you'll be consistent with the rest of perl code
WebDragon	mst: I was thinking more along the lines of filenames and irc nicknames than perl variables
mst	WebDragon: ah. fair enough :)
* WebDragon	doesn't use camelcase for perlvars
mst	WebDragon: then I shall cease complaining :)
avar	${"Insert a descriptive essay about the variable here"}
WebDragon	rofl
rindolf	avar: that won't work with 'use strict 'refs''
WebDragon	avar: I've seen things like that in RL and had recurring nightmares about them when I saw similar and sometimes worse things on thedailywtf.com
mst	rindolf: ${main::}{"Insert a descriptive essay about the variable here"} would :)
mst	rindolf: or you could just use %_ :)
dkr	my boss still occasionally uses vars like $x. still trying to beat that behavior out of him
* WebDragon	only uses x\|y\|z for cartesian coordinate math
WebDragon	which, since I hardly ever do any of that, means the obvious

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	What's in a variable name?

Watched the fountain on Freenode's #perlcafe

mofino	watched the Fountain
mofino	pretty cool'
q[ender]	yep
sili	what?
sili	you think The Fountain was cool?
sili	it was pretty artsy.
sili	I don't understand the necessity of repeating that same scene 50k times, though.
mofino	then you didn't get the movie
rindolf	sili: if you repeat a scene 50k times, then the movie will have less entropy and will compress better.

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Watched the fountain on Freenode's #perlcafe

Commiting yourself to a programming language on Freenode's #perl.

convivial	high-rez, but I don't know enough to help you because I am a newbie to perl programming and although I am in deep luv with perl and planning on marrying perl, I still have a lot to learn.
rindolf	convivial: you can only marry Perl if polygamy is legal where you live.
rindolf	convivial: because Perl and I are already married. :-D
convivial	why is that? i'm single :)
rindolf	convivial: but Perl isn't.
convivial	oh crap !
convivial	all the good languages are already married :(
rindolf	convivial: COBOL is still single.
rindolf	convivial: but I heard she's a total bitch.
convivial	ewwwwwwwwwwww, so is JCL and no one is knocking down either of their doors
convivial	rindolf, janet reno is single!
rindolf	convivial: what kind of programming language is "Janet Reno"?
convivial	:)
convivial	she is a person
rindolf	convivial: I'm not interested in people, I'm only interested in programming languages.
shaldannon	rindolf: you should try Ada
rindolf	shaldannon: Ada 95?
shaldannon	yeah
shaldannon	the syntax of Pascal, the power of Basic and the friendliness of Java

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Commiting yourself to a programming language on Freenode's #perl.

Making use of Encyclopedias at FreeNode's #perl

* shaldannon	beats iank over the head with an encyclopedia
rindolf	shaldannon: all volumes of an encyclopedia?
dwu	rindolf: ha
shaldannon	rindolf: every last one of 'em
rindolf	shaldannon: or perhaps a printout of the Wikipedia?
iank	rindolf: the whole bookcase
rindolf	shaldannon: which Encyclopedia?
iank	rindolf: naw, just get the DVD :)
shaldannon	rindolf: I couldn't lift that
shaldannon	rindolf: Britanica
iank	You could lift the DVD!
dwu	shaldannon: Start. Working. Out.
shaldannon	dwu: oh?
dwu	shaldannon: Dude, being able to lift the Britannica is hot.
* iank	-> the internet
shaldannon	:-}
dwu	Seriously.
dwu	"I can hold the accepted knowledge of a percentage of the human race in my arms!" "Oh, god, that is so sexy."
shaldannon	hahahaha
dwu	Seriously. Smart is hot. Smart and funny... well.
* shaldannon	is hillarious ;)
dwu	Uhm. kay.
rindolf	If you start reading the wikipedia lexicographically, will you ever finish at the rate articles are added there?
tarrybone	rindolf: yes (citation needed)
dwu	ha
shaldannon	lol @ tarrybone
dwu	tarrybone++
rindolf	This reminds me of James Bond 1, where the girl there read an encyclopedia, instead of going to school.
yrlnry	Does anyone near Philadelphia want to come to my house and take away my 1920 Britannica?
shaldannon	rindolf: hey...when I was in elementary school, I used to read the World Book encyclopedia instead of doing my homework

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Commiting yourself to a programming language on Freenode's #perl.

Production WTF Code on #perl

dwave	anyone envy me? i'm refactoring production code that uses the fact that "" is defined, as a hash key.
dwave	if (ref $ref->{""} ne "ARRAY") {
dwave	$ref->{""} = [$ref->{""},$_];
dwave	} else {
dwave	$ref->{""} = [@{$ref->{""}},$_];
dwave	}
dwave	:(
iank	hey, that looks like fun.
integral	Has the author been lynched yet?
* integral	would have used "\0" :-P
dwave	the best of it all, is that it's an XML parser
mauke	$ref->{""} = [ref $ref->{""} eq "ARRAY" ? @{$ref->{""}} : $ref->{""}, $_]; # fixed
rindolf	dwave: does this XML parser makes use of an existing XML parser from CPAN?
rindolf	dwave: or does it do everything from scratch?
dwave	rindolf: everything from scratch :)
rindolf	dwave: nice!
dwave	i'm trying to get rid of it
rindolf	dwave: re-inventing square wheels.
dwave	there's a home made unicode lib too
dwave	!
rindolf	dwave: ouch!
shaldannon	nice
iank	Brilliant!
shaldannon	dwave: I suggest a dailywtf.com submission
rindolf	dwave: yeah, I second shaldannon

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Production WTF Code on #perl

Versions of Software on FreeNode's #perl

bp31416	rindolf: I command you both, to uninstall it, and install SuSE10.2 =P
jagerman	"versions" are so annoying.
jagerman	"I use Linux 10.2!"
iank	jagerman: I had a friend who insisted the answer to the question "What version of the kernel are you running?" was "gnome".
jagerman	eval: $POE::Kernel::VERSION
buubot	jagerman: 1.2173
jagerman	\o/
Terminus	heh, a friend of mine only remembers me running ximian a few years ago and he keeps on asking me, "why don't you run ximian again?" where ximian == OS for him.
bp31416	jagerman: could be worse lingo-wise, in tech-support many folks asking on Q about 'THEIR internet' isn't working, or 'does it have internet installed?', I .....like.... sir.... when did you manage to buy the internet in whole? ....... ahhhh... the internet is not a socket you plug in any of the ports sir

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Versions of Software

The Holy Extreme Programming in Freenode's #perl

rindolf	"We're doing XP [= Extreme Programming] here, so you need to know Ruby, you need to know Design Patterns and you need to know Refactoring."
rindolf	XP may have become a religion.
ew73	I Refactored yesterday!
rindolf	ew73: using which refactoring pattern?
ew73	Leviticus 13:22
Somni	well you will keep refactoring until you get it right!
* rindolf	extracts the ew73 method.
rindolf	ew73: this is one of my favourite refactoring patterns.
* ew73	idly looks up said passage, just to see if it's any good.
integral	What do you have to know to claim you know refactoring?
integral	How to click buttons in the right Eclipse menu?
rindolf	integral: the code is in Ruby.
integral	Ruby is too cool to be in Eclipse?
ew73	integral: One time, I moved all this stuff to another subroutine!
ew73	Lev. 13:22. And if it spread, he shall judge him to have the leprosy:
rindolf	integral: no, but you cannot refactor Ruby code automatically using Eclipse.
integral	One time I wrote all this code, but when I was about to go home I found I'd left my brain at home! LOLZ
integral	ew73: good butter advert in that

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Extreme Programming as a Religion

To be here or not to be here on Freenode's #perl

rindolf	Hi all.
rindolf	LeoNerd: here?
LeoNerd	rindolf: Maybe
rindolf	LeoNerd: "be here or be not here - there is no maybe"
LeoNerd	:)
rindolf	LeoNerd: a.k.a the law of the exclusion of the middle.
dwu	I think Yoda phrased that one best.

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	To be here or not to be here on Freenode's #perl

Monkey Business at Freenode's #perl

perlmonkey	thats just...mental
rindolf	perlmonkey2: still here?
perlmonkey2	rindolf: hi
rindolf	perlmonkey2: hi.
perlmonkey	phew
rindolf	perlmonkey2: now we have two Perl monkeys.
perlmonkey2	hah
perlmonkey2	good stuff
perlmonkey2	You can never have too many.
PeaceNLove	To produce good stuff like Shakespeare's works, we need an infinite number of monkeys
perlmonkey	we're starting a monkey clan
rindolf	PeaceNLove: heh.
rindolf	PeaceNLove: and to write like a monkey we need a million Shakespeares.
PeaceNLove	perlmonkey, reproduce and multiply, God be with you
perlmonkey2	PeaceNLove: You can, of course, do anything with an infinite number of perl monkeys.
perlmonkey2	PeaceNLove: Actually a million monkeys on a million typewriters would most probably have not created Hamlet if they started at the beginning of the Universe.
PeaceNLove	perlmonkey2, that's fine, the Universe has not ended yet, they have time

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Monkey Business at Freenode's #perl

Not a bug on #offtopic on OFTC

rindolf	sarnold: you go to OGI?
sarnold	rindolf: no; but my boss and a co-worker are professors there, and other co-workers earned degrees there..
rindolf	sarnold: OK.
muli	sarnold, have you got one of those pesky things?
sarnold	muli: just Bachelor of Arts .. no Masters or Ph.D...
rindolf	sarnold: B.Sc or B.A.?
muli	rindolf, Bachelor of Arts is B.A.
rindolf	muli: I know. But I was just checking.
sarnold	rindolf: ah, you're right, B.Sc.. I chickened out on the language requirements :)
rindolf	muli: see?? LOL.
muli	rindolf, sometimes, two bugs cancel each other.
rindolf	muli: wisely spoken.
rindolf	But mine wasn't a bug - it was a sanity check.

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Not a bug

Who you're gonna call on Freenode's #perl

rindolf	Hmmm... xchat-perl is gone.
f00li5h	OH NOES! ## what's that for then?
rindolf	Who you're gonna call? Bug-busters!!
Khisanth	rindolf: never existed, unless you are using an rpm based system
rindolf	Khisanth: I am.
f00li5h	I AINT AFRAID OF NO BUG!
rindolf	f00li5h: heh.
f00li5h	when there's something wierd and in your code base, who you gonna call?
railbait	f00li5h: The police?
f00li5h	railbait: BUG BUSTERS!
f00li5h	we test it with science then blow it up
f00li5h	... or is that someone else

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Who you're gonna call?

Tribute to the Prisoner on Freenode's #perl

Hazard	How do I look up @- in the perldocs?
rindolf	Hazard: perldoc perlvar
Hazard	rindolf: Thanks.
Daveman	perldoc rindolf
Hazard	I don't know what I'd do without IRC.
rindolf	Daveman: I am not a pragma! I'm a free man!
Hazard	I couldn't even google that.
rindolf	use Daveman (qw(silliness));
* jetscreamer	sends rindolf back to the village
rindolf	jetscreamer: is it a Perlisoner village where everyone becomes a pragma?
jetscreamer	and lots of perlBalloons
Daveman	gumbybrain, how do i make teh web wit shlomi!?
rindolf	jetscreamer: Perloons.
rindolf	jetscreamer: Perlunatics.
apeiron	Perlarks.
Daveman	perlaugh

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Tribute to the Prisoner

The Messiah of Perl on Freenode's #perl

ubajas	Technically, my first language was Turbo Pascal, but I started over with Perl 10 years later (not having programmed in the meantime). I'm obviously damaged goods.
iank	ubajas: heh, I read that as "I started with (perl 10) (years later)" instead of "I started with perl (10 years later)" :)
rindolf	Perl 10!
rindolf	Perl for the Fourth Millenium.
jagerman	I thought Perl 6 was supposed to be timeless
ubajas	iank: Maybe I should have added a comma. :-]
jagerman	Perl ∞
iank	perl6 has existed since the beginning of time, or at least it will have existed since then once $Larry finds a time machine.
simcop2387	iank: i'm sorry but larry is the prophet i am the messanger! i will be the one to take it back!
iank	WHAT.
simcop2387	iank: its MY TIME MACHINE!
* iank	smacks simcop2387 around
jagerman	iank: So it'll be like that Star Trek episode, where they say that the development of computers are caused by time travel from the future?
jagerman	Except that they were too stupid (like most Voyager writers) to get their facts right, and thought computers started in the 70s

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	The Messiah of Perl

One rindolf Each on Freenode's #perl

milardovich	with strict it say me this:
milardovich	Global symbol "$lorem" requires explicit package name at split.pl line 3.
rindolf	milardovich: use "my $lorem = "
rindolf	milardovich: my is your friend.
rindolf	pun not intended.
rindolf	my is my friend.
dwu	Preferably with a real value after "= " ^.^
rindolf	dwu: he already has that.
milardovich	that works with my rindolf
milardovich	thaks you!!!
rindolf	milardovich: you're welcome.
milardovich	:)
ubajas	I wish I had a rindolf too. :-\
milardovich	people here are "nicer" than on #php :P
rindolf	ubajas: I'm mass-produced at Chines sweat-shops.
ubajas	hehe
rindolf	ubajas: they sell me for 30 bucks a piece.
rindolf	milardovich: I've heard some horrible stories about ##php.
milardovich	perl rulz x)
rindolf	milardovich: what brings you to Perl?
simcop2387	rindolf: #php apparantly
rindolf	simcop2387: heh.
rindolf	simcop2387++

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	One rindolf Each on Freenode's #perl

Are you being verbed on Freenode's #perl

rindolf	cl1: what do you do at work?
cl1	i write code :D
rindolf	cl1: naturally.
rindolf	cl1: to do what?
cl1	right now at this contract, i'm working with .net, c#, asp.net and pl/sql
rindolf	cl1: sounds enterprisey.
BinGOs	please don't turn enterprise into a verb.
rindolf	BinGOs: enterprisey is an adjective, not a verb.
LeoNerd	Enterprizationaliseation?
BinGOs	okay.
cl1	lol @ enterprisey
rindolf	GumbyBRAIN: BinGOs me!
GumbyBRAIN	i tend to be good, it doesn't want me to buy an island utopia (you'll get used to bother me.
BinGOs	But it is a noun and no more.
BinGOs	mmmkay.
dwu	BinGOs: Actually, it's also an adjective. Even without "y".
BinGOs	I HATE YOU ALL.
* dwu	grin
BinGOs	CRITIQUE IS DEFINITELY A FUCKING NOUN.
dwu	It's also a verb.
BinGOs	NO IT ISN'T
simcop2387	BinGOs: i shall critique your use of critique
BinGOs	JUST BECAUSE SOME DAMNED YANKEE SCUM DECIDE IT IS, DOES NOT MAKE IT SO.
dwu	It's been used since the 18th century.
rindolf	BinGOs: dwued!
BinGOs	I refer you to my earlier hate.
dwu	I refer you to your fail.
icke	not earlier than 18th century
dwu	I really shouldn't. It's mean. But I will.
dwu	Because I'm mean.
dwu	icke: Hence "since".
dwu	'criticises'.
BinGOs	My fail-gun appears to firing backwards. Damn thing.
dwu	Your fail gun is... failing?

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Are you being verbed on Freenode's #perl

How much Perl do you need at Freenode's #perl

shishirm1	is pop3 module avaliable only in perl 5?
jernster	are you saying you use something other than 5?
icke	perl 4 didn't even have modules
jernster	heh
rindolf	shishirm1: do you want to use it with Perl 4?
shishirm1	oh ok sorry i am comlete nooob!! so i am just asking you guys
shishirm1	nope is perl 5 a standard now?
jernster	yes
shishirm1	ok great...
jernster	:)
rindolf	shishirm1: Perl 4 is unmaintained, unloved, deprecated, not recommended, and dead - D. E. D. - DEAD!
simcop2387-lap	perl 4 is an EXPERL!
simcop2387-lap	all statements that perl4 is a going concern are thus inoperative.

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	How much Perl do you need at Freenode's #perl

Conditional-to-Inheritance Refactoring on Freenode's #perl

edeca	Hrm. More infernal questions, mainly because I am trying to make my perl prettier and contain less nasty if's. I have $foo and $bar which are obtained from split(/ /, 'kitten loving'). But I don't want undef if the split fails, I'd rather '' for $bar or both. What's the nicest way to do that?
Khisanth	($foo, $bar) = map { $_ // "" } split / /, $str; # 5.10 version :)
edeca	Noo 5.10! :)
Khisanth	($foo, $bar) = map { defined $_ ? $_ : "" } split / /, $str; # probably some other shorter ways too
rindolf	edeca: [bad idea] you can also try using the conditional->inheritance refactoring.
rindolf	:-)
* Khisanth	pours boiling coffee on rindolf
rindolf	Khisanth: I hate coffee, but I guess I deserved it.
rindolf	That was a joke, of course.
Khisanth	you weren't really supposed to like having boiling anything poured on you but I guess you are into the kinkier stuff

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Conditional-to-Inheritance Refactoring on Freenode's #perl

Geek love on Freenode's #perl

rindolf	rbastic: QBasic was the sh*t!
rindolf	rbastic: well, not really.
rbastic	rindolf: yup, that language is responsible for me having gotten into programming to begin with.
rbastic	8 yrs old and writing qbasic scripts with QBasic for Dummies by my side
rindolf	rbastic: I started when I was 10.
rindolf	rbastic: I know some people who started much later.
talexb	Late bloomer .. didn't start till I was 15.
Zoffix	heh, I started at 14... I could not have a computer before that
rindolf	rbastic: but I know a girl who started programming when she was 6.
rindolf	Or was it 8?
Zoffix	rindolf, CAN HAS PHONE NUMBER?!
rbastic	lol
rindolf	Zoffix: NO CAN!
Zoffix	:(
rindolf	Zoffix: only have her MSN.
Zoffix	gimmegimmegimme
talexb	Heh.
Zoffix	:)
rindolf	Zoffix: LOL.

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Geek Love

The Grand Unified Programming Language

rbastic	Juerd: eh in today's world of heavy JS on the clientside, i think it makes a little more sense to use the same lang. everywhere
Juerd	rbastic: JS on the client side is because often it's the only option the universe provides.
rbastic	Juerd: from a business perspective, you reduce the complexity and potential difficulties in finding new hires with the same skillset
rindolf	rbastic: have you heard of RJS?
Juerd	rbastic: On the server side, however, you have great freedom.
rbastic	rindolf: no, what's that?
Caelum	larry wants perl6 to run on javascript :)
rindolf	rbastic: "One Language; and One Sayings".
Juerd	rbastic: Exactly. I would never hire a server side programmer who knows only Javascript, and is too stupid to learn whatever we're using on the server side.
rindolf	rbastic: my translation to a sentence from the Tower of Babel myth.
rbastic	Juerd: i'll agree with that also. any real programmer knows or has at least coded in half a dozen languages before
Juerd	From a business perspective, you should avoid crap coders at all cost.
Juerd	Knows or has coded... Hmmm...!
rindolf	rbastic: though according to what most scholars believe it was not about using one language but rather thinking the same.
Juerd	I hope they haven't coded in half a dozen languages without knowing them.
Juerd	That'd be scary.
zshzn	Reality is scary, Juerd
talexb	Hmm, BASIC, FORTRAN, COBOL, assembler, C, more assembler, C, Pascal ... Perl!

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	The Grand Unified Programming Language

Can I haz a fast compiler on Freenode's #perl

rindolf	rbastic: now I'm working with C++.
rindolf	rbastic: I found out that my project compiles really quickly.
rindolf	rbastic: under 5 or 10 minutes on a P4-2.4GHz with 1 GB of RAM.
rindolf	rbastic: maybe KDE is making g++ look bad.
rbastic	rindolf: yeah, i'm not a big KDE fan
rindolf	rbastic: actually I'm using KDE-3.5.8 here.
rindolf	rbastic: I was talking about the compilation speed of KDE apps and KDE itself.
rindolf	rbastic: possibly because each file has half-a-gazillion headers.
rindolf	My C++ code is a server one, so we don't have too many deps.
rbastic	yeah, isn't there a way to cache header files? ie. in their "compiled" form?
rbastic	or is that something I'm remembering from some other programming language that purported to build on top of C?
rindolf	rbastic: MSVC has that.
rbastic	ahh, nods
rindolf	rbastic: no, Visual C++ has precompiled headers.
rindolf	rbastic: I remember that I kept deleting them.
rbastic	yeah, couldn't remember
rbastic	lol
rindolf	Pascal compiles very quickly.
rindolf	That's one of the things I enjoyed in Delphi.
rbastic	ugh, the app i'm been maintaining in Java was originally a fat client/server desktop app, written in Delphi
rindolf	rbastic: ah.
rbastic	i remember booting up the old app for the first time, and being amazed at how slow it was
rbastic	eventually, i had to duplicate a feature in the Java code and i wasn't sure how it was implemented before
rindolf	rbastic: you mean the Java app is faster? :S
rbastic	so being as i had no Delphi experience, and the newer Delphi environments made NO sense to me at all, i just opened up the SQL Server query analyzer
rbastic	rindolf: yes, but only b/c the Delphi programmer was an idiot, issuing queries over and over again needlessly
rbastic	rindolf: if you could've seen the MSSQL Performance Analyzer or whatever, it was basically just.. Query1, Query2, Query3, Query1, Query2, Query3, repeat.
rbastic	it was probably the worst ive ever seen in my life.. belongs on www.thedailywtf.com

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Can I haz a fast compiler

I think too much - therefore I blog too much on Freenode's #perl

rindolf	scrottie: hi.
scrottie	hi rindolf!
rindolf	scrottie: are you the scrottie from use.perl.org?
scrottie	yeah.
rindolf	scrottie: ah, nice to meet you.
rindolf	Well, chat with you on IRC at least.
* scrottie	cowers from the swinging fist probably coming his way
rindolf	scrottie: I'm "Shlomi%20Fish"
scrottie	oh, heh, thanks
rindolf	It's a curse.
scrottie	hmm. i vaguely remember interesting stuff from you but can't honestly place what.
scrottie	I know I've seen you around here before too.
rindolf	Yeah, my use.perl.org blog is mostly technical and perl-related.
scrottie	I post on use.perl.org entirely too much.
rindolf	So it may be a bit boring.
rindolf	Sometimes it's a bit philosophical.
rindolf	scrottie: yes.
scrottie	heh. and mine is offensively off-topic.
rindolf	scrottie: I have other blogs.
scrottie	I've posted to livejournal twice!

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	I think too much - therefore I blog too much

"How intrusive do you want your text to be?" on Freenode's #perl

rindolf	Can we add styles like <b>, <i>, etc.?
rindolf	Or colours?
rindolf	Or blink?
rindolf	Or images?
rindolf	Or flash applets?
scrottie	<banner>!
alanhaggai	rindolf: No I think. Google's Web Application does not allow them. It is just a <textarea>.

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	How intrusive do you want your text to be?

Freenode's #pearl

rindolf	scrottie: you are a native English speaker right?
rindolf	scrottie: do you know #linguistics ?
scrottie	not familiar with #linguistics, yes, I am a native English speaker, but my spelling is atr... my spelling is terrible.
rindolf	atrocious?
scrottie	yeah, that
scrottie	I have an xterm dedicated to dict/spell
rindolf	scrottie: spelling is probably easy to fix using aspell.
rindolf	scrottie: heh.
rindolf	scrottie: I'm using xchat which has an red-line for spelling mistakes.
rindolf	Very useful.
rindolf	Too bad I'm using British spelling where it sometimes misbehaves.
rindolf	aspell, I mean.

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Freenode's #pearl

"Lame even" on Freenode's #perl

rindolf	A lot of ise's [in Aspell's British Spelling checker] are false positivies.
rindolf	positives even.
rindolf	People who say $minor_spelling_correction even, are lam.
rindolf	lame even.
rindolf	I never get tired of these self-referential jokes.

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Lame even

The Third #perl Reich (on Freenode #perl).

scrottie	The tech side was there... but I was stuck with my fucking graphics I did in crayon. I kid you not. Crayon.
scrottie	It was a cry for help.
scrottie	Programmers will work with each other on fun projects, but graphic designers never get involved in stuff like that.
rindolf	scrottie: ah.
scrottie	then there's kingdomofloathing.com... stick figures.
rindolf	scrottie: there are some graphic designers who contribute to KDE, GNOME, etc.
scrottie	fuck graphic artists. we should round them all up and burn them.
rindolf	scrottie: heh.
scrottie	okay, they can live.
rindolf	scrottie: scrotitler!
scrottie	the rest get burnt though.
rindolf	"He who starts by burning graphics desginers will end up burning programmers."
scrottie	only the ASP and PHP programmers... then we'll see where things are at and re-evaluate the plan.
rindolf	First they came to the graphics designers...
Khisanth	then they came for more graphics designers
rindolf	scrottie: I knew some very nice PHP programmers.
rindolf	And VB ones.
scrottie	yeah, me too. real shame.
rindolf	scrottie: I still know some PHP programmers.

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	The Third #perl Reich (on Freenode #perl).

The Name "Bunny"

→B-rabbit	has joined #perl
rindolf	B-rabbit? I know a B-rat on #linguistics.
B-rabbit	rindolf, cool =]
rindolf	B-rabbit: ok.
B-rabbit	my full name is bunny rabbit bt w :)
B-rabbit	hehe
rindolf	B-rabbit: ah.
rindolf	B-rabbit: "bunny" is a female name.
B-rabbit	lol
pippijn	rindolf: correct
pippijn	I know a bunny
rindolf	Or a Playboy bunny.
ik	rindolf: bunny is a stripper name
pippijn	friends call her bun
ik	pippijn: is she a stripper?
B-rabbit	rindolf, i am a male lol x sorry to disappoint u
rindolf	"IRC: Where men are men, women are men, and the kids are FBI agents."
rindolf	B-rabbit: ok, no problem.
ik	pippijn: she should change her name
pippijn	ik: it doesn't hurt her
ik	pippijn: right, but she's violating a fundamental law
ik	pippijn: she either needs to change her name or become a stripper
rindolf	ik: I think the other option is better.
pippijn	ik: she'd probably become a stripper rather than changing her name
rindolf	pippijn: LOL.
ik	rindolf: yeah, but you're creepy
rindolf	I think I'll make a fortune out of it.

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	The Name "Bunny"

The Anti-School nazi

dazjorz	Hi rindolf :)
rindolf	Hi dazjorz
rindolf	dazjorz: what's up?
rindolf	dazjorz: No Tests for You?
rindolf	No *more
dazjorz	No more tests :)
rindolf	dazjorz: No more tests for you!!! For three months!
rindolf	dazjorz: nice!
dazjorz	:D
dazjorz	Two, I think

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	The anti-School nazi

Emulating a Newbie on Perl

yrlnry	Hi, I heard that Perl is just HTML with some sort of macro preprocessor attached. So I thought you would be the right people to ask about whether there is a way to make the submitted value on an <input type=submit> different from the visible label on the button.
yrlnry	Thanks in advance.
* Roderick	tars and feathers yrlnry.
yrlnry	Hi, Roderick! How's the kid?
Somni	you have been misinformed, sir; Perl is just a regex engine with named variables
ne2k__	yrlnry: that is possibly one of the oddest questions I have ever heard
yrlnry	ne2k__: What's odd about "How's the kid?"
yrlnry	You need to get out more, seriously.
ne2k__	yrlnry: I meant the original question
Roderick	Congratulations, I hope it's going well.
yrlnry	Do you know that Jewish folktale about the man who lives in a tiny hut with his wife and kids and they can't stand the crowding any more, so they go to the rabbi for advice, and the rabbit suggests that they bring the chickens, goat, and cow into the house too?
ne2k__	yrlnry: not that it has anything to do with perl, but the <input> tag in HTML has both "name" and "value" attributes. the value is what gets shown in the browser typically.
yrlnry	ne2k__: yes, and the value is also what is submitted when someone presses the button, but I want the displayed label to be different from what it submitted, as it is say with <option ...>

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	yrlnry as a Perl newbie

Which Prefix do You Want Today?

mMish	hi rind
rindolf	Hi mMish
rindolf	mMish: now you're mMish ?
rindolf	mMish: are you eMish, oMish, aMish , etc?
mMish	yes
rindolf	mMish: ah, nice.
mMish	depends on the mood
rindolf	GumbyBRAIN: how many nicks must a one IRCer have?
GumbyBRAIN	Oh, i lie, now it's stuck on posting things to do it. You said you couldn't have one of many.
rindolf	mMish: ah OK.
rindolf	xMish
rindolf	iMish
rindolf	zMish
rindolf	Like the IBM computers.
rindolf	pMish
mMish	ppszMish <--- HUngarian
rindolf	mMish: LOL.
rindolf	lpstrMish
dazjorz	is lpstr a function?
dazjorz	get_magic_quotes_gpcMish
rindolf	dazjorz: no, Long Pointer to string.
dazjorz	PHP++ :')
rindolf	dazjorz: why?
rindolf	perlbot: karma PHP
perlbot	Karma for PHP: -147
LeoNerd	It takes some nerve to say "PHP++" in #perl :P
dazjorz	rindolf: because they have get_magic_quotes_gpc!
dazjorz	don't we all love get_magic_quotes_gpc!
rindolf	dazjorz: oh.
dazjorz	it's a function
rindolf	dazjorz: love, hate - what's the difference.
rindolf	dazjorz: that does what?
dazjorz	to get the value of magic_quotes_gpc in the config file.
rindolf	dazjorz: ah.
dazjorz	so they have get_magic_quotes_gpc for get_ini('magic_quotes_gpc')
rindolf	dazjorz: LOL.
dazjorz	plus, there's the magic_quotes_gpc to escape all input a script gets via POST, GET and COOKIE.
rindolf	dazjorz: yes, sounds Evil.
rindolf	Just use placeholders.

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Which Prefix do you Want today?

Sextalk according to the cult of Perl

krang	Hey all, what's the best way to call one perl script from another? I was thinking I'd just use 'system("script.pl");'
dazjorz	krang: yeah, that, or do "script.pl"
dazjorz	krang: depends on how seperated you want them to be
krang	dazjorz: you mean just a line that has "script.pl"; written on it?
Khisanth	you need the do as well
dazjorz	krang: no, exactly this: do "script.pl";
rindolf	krang: system is usually what you want.
rindolf	krang: normally require or use are preferable to do
dazjorz	rindolf: that's for modules, isn't it ?
rindolf	dazjorz: yes.
dazjorz	wait, I think require "script.pl" would work too
rindolf	dazjorz: and doing code is not such a good idea.
dazjorz	rindolf: hmm?
krang	rindolf: what is doing anyway?
rindolf	dazjorz: I mean "perldoc -f do"-ing code.
rindolf	krang: do()-ing
rindolf	krang: it reads the file and evaluates it.
rindolf	krang: perldoc -f do.
dazjorz	rindolf: ah
dazjorz	rindolf: do {}
* rindolf	would rather be doing hot models than doing code. :-)
dazjorz	rindolf: yeah, do BLOCK is quite useless
dazjorz	heh
rindolf	dazjorz: you can do my $var = do { ... }
* dazjorz	would rather be doing GumbyBRAIN than doing code
GumbyBRAIN	and doing code is not be in the days of immortality!
rindolf	dazjorz: or eval { ... }
rindolf	dazjorz: heh.
rindolf	It's hard to do code.
dazjorz	do $model;
dazjorz	eh.. sorry, do $hotmodel;
rindolf	"Are you into my brother?"
rindolf	"No I'm totally into Perl."
krang	ah ok, I see. Thanks guys!
rindolf	krang: yw.
dazjorz	heh :-)
rindolf	If you want a configuration file, you should be using something like INI, YAML, etc.
rindolf	XML perhaps.
rindolf	Something.
rindolf	Apache-like config.
dazjorz	Apache-like is very strong but hard to parse, right ?
dazjorz	Loading and saving configuration never looks good, especially when it's XML
dazjorz	the code to load and save is ugly.

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Sextalk among Perl cultists

f00li5h inviting rindolf to Australia

f00li5h	rindolf: are you coming out this way on tour some time?
rindolf	f00li5h: to .au?
f00li5h	yes!
rindolf	f00li5h: don't think so.
f00li5h	you can pay some of my rent for a bit ^_^
rindolf	f00li5h: I'm out of job too.
f00li5h	perfect timing!
f00li5h	no commitments
* f00li5h	is very good at constructing circular arguments due to his skill in constructing circular arguments

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Will rindolf come to Australia?

The Love Life of Cats

Anon	today my kitty gave a birth to two kitties!
rindolf	Anon: ah, nice.
Anon	one of them died :(
Anon	during birth
rindolf	Anon: oh. :-(
simcop2387	Anon: were you expecting it to happen?
simcop2387	:(
Anon	simcop2387, i was expecting this week
rindolf	Anon: do you know who the father is?
simcop2387	ah
Anon	rindolf, some cat
simcop2387	rindolf: hopefully not him
Anon	rindolf, remember my kitty ran away
rindolf	Anon: ah.
Anon	for a week
rindolf	Anon: no I don't remember that.
Anon	well, she ran away for a week
rindolf	Anon: ah.
Anon	and came back
Anon	and during that time she got pregnant.
rindolf	Anon: ah.
freehaha	they don't seem to have safe sex
rindolf	Anon: she eloped.
simcop2387	Anon: sounds like she had fun
Anon	simcop2387, sounds like that :)
simcop2387	Anon: you should have the talk with her about birth control then (i wonder do they even make birth control for kitties)

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	The Love Life of Cats

Black Beer

* rindolf	is listening to
rindolf	Oh crud.
rindolf	I should support Kaffeine too.
Tanktalus	rindolf is apparently deaf... ;-)
* rindolf	is listening to Metallica - Nothing Else Matters
ubajas	NOTHING ELSE MATTERS, DUDE
tkr	rindolf: thats nice :)
tkr	rindolf: how about guns 'n roses?
* rindolf	is listening to Guns and Runs - don't cry
rindolf	tkr: you read my mind.
rindolf	tkr: I now placed some of their songs.
rindolf	Now it's November Rain.
tkr	rindolf: next time youll come to finland Ill buy you a beer (with no alcohol)! :)
tkr	rindolf++
rindolf	tkr: OK.
rindolf	tkr: we have something called "Black Beer" in Israel.
rindolf	Which is a non-alcoholic beer.
simcop2387	rindolf: THATS RACIST! IT SHOULD BE AFRICAN AMERICAN ISREALI BEER!
edenc	rindolf: is it any good?
rindolf	simcop2387: heh .

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Beer, Perlers and Song

Assign Named $foo and $bar

LeoNerd	I feel there must be a way to do this... given func( foo => 1, bar => 2 ); how to write my ( $foo, $bar ) = .... inside the function?
LeoNerd	My current attempt is my ( $foo, $bar ) = @{{@_}}{qw( foo bar )}; which is messy as sin
icke	LeoNerd: what's the problem? readability?
LeoNerd	Yah
dazjorz	LeoNerd: I'd change specs to be func({ foo => 1, bar => 2})
dazjorz	then my ($foo, $bar) = ($_[0]{foo}, $_[0]{bar});
ton	Leonerd: If you insist on doing it on one line, that's about as good as it gets. But why not use a temporary hash ? Should be just as fast and as readable
LeoNerd	Hrm.. :/ Then it's only marginally nicer as my ( $foo, $bar ) = @{$_[0]}{qw( foo bar )};
LeoNerd	my %args = @_; my ( $foo, $bar ) = @args{qw( foo bar )}; ya... that works
mst	LeoNerd: my ($foo, $bar) = do { my %a = @_; @a{qw(foo bar)} };
ton	if you combine it with a delete you can then check if %args is empty and catch typos or unexpected arguments....
LeoNerd	Oooh.. a do block
vincent	or use padwalker
LeoNerd	Oh, args won't be empty... this is a wrapper function that pulls a few named args off and sends the rest to a nested inner function
LeoNerd	Now.. I want to call a function "foreach" but that breaks things... suggestions?
icke	a method could be named 'foreach'
LeoNerd	Ya.. but this is a plain function
icke	tough
LeoNerd	I suppose "iterate" is about as best as I'll get
icke	for_each
ton	LeoNerd: forall ?
LeoNerd	I'll think on it overnight maybe.. I guess it's home time now
icke	foreachandeverysingleone
ton	forever, forfun, forlorn...
vincent	FOREACH
icke	boo
LeoNerd	one_for $all and $all for @one;
rindolf	forevery?
rindolf	<LeoNerd> one_for $all and $all for @one; - heh
rindolf	$one for @all and @all for @one
rindolf	$one for @all and @all for @$one
rindolf	$one for @all and @all for $one
rindolf	Works too.
LeoNerd	Hrm.. it does?
LeoNerd	deparse: $one for @all and @all for $one
buubot	LeoNerd: Error: syntax error at (eval 107195) line 1, near "@all for "
LeoNerd	You can't use two postmod fors in a single statement

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Syntax Fun

The func

as841	Hi, i am doing a print $drh->func('createdb',$database,"localhost","root",$password,'admin'); but getting this Can't call method "func" on an undefined value
as841	could anyone point me in the right direction ?
Yaakov	o/~ Ow we want the func / Give up the func / Ow we need the func / We gotta have that func o/~ </drforr>
rindolf	We got the func!
rindolf	Forget the fee func, we've got the see func!
as841	wtf?
as841	did i launch a movement or what ?
Yaakov	What the func?!

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	The func

More Than One Way for a Cat to Paw

* f00li5h	paws at dazjorz
dazjorz	f00li5h! :)
f00li5h	how goes it?
dazjorz	it goes very fine. :)
* pkrumins	f00s at pawlish
* f00li5h	pkrums at pawkrumins
pkrumins	f00li5h, thank you sir! =^_^=
f00li5h	dazjorz: I am quite well
* dazjorz	li5hes at f00paw
* dazjorz	rins at pawdolf... man, I could go on forever.
pkrumins	haha
pkrumins	pawdolf
* pkrumins	dazes at pawjorz
* dazjorz	gumbys at .. oh well
* pkrumins	paws at GumbyBRAIN
GumbyBRAIN	Ik paws at gumbybrain.

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	More Than One Way for a Cat to Paw

Bit by bit

Similian	is there a smart way to read a file to a certain string bit by bit ?
Similian	which loop to use?
rindolf	Similian: you can read it byte by byte.
rindolf	Similian: do you want to read the whole thing?
Similian	no
Similian	too big 200 MB
simcop2387-lab	reading bit by bit is usually not supported by most operating systems
rindolf	Similian: then do you want to read one byte at a time?
ik	or one line at a time?
Similian	guess a line would be better
rindolf	simcop2387-lab: it is on my rindolfOS running on Intel 1001.
rindolf	Which was a 1-bit processor.
ik	heh
ik	I had a half-bit processor
ik	it just stored ones
danieldg	ik: that would be a zero-bit processor then
ik	no no
danieldg	half-bit processor stores 0's or sqrt(2)'s
ik	sqrt(2) may as well be 1
simcop2387-lab	rindolf: a 1 bit processor would be a hell of a thing to work with
danieldg	not if you can't test it unless it's one
ik	We're not talking about numbers, we're talking about on and off, true and false, whatever you want to call it
ik	sqrt(2) is nonzero, so it's one.
rindolf	danieldg: not 1/sqrt(2)?
danieldg	hmm it would probably be that, yes
simcop2387-lab	my proc uses sqrt[-1]!
ik	may as well
danieldg	ik: think quantum computers. It tests true with probability 1/sqrt(2)
ik	I'm not talking about a quantum computer..
danieldg	well a 1/2 bit computer clearly can't be classical

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Bit by bit

Log Analyser in Haskell

rindolf	whoppix: what's up?
whoppix	rindolf, haskelling through the night.
rindolf	whoppix: ah.
whoppix	rindolf, im pretty much a beginner, tho.
rindolf	whoppix: yes, I learned Haskell back at the time.
rindolf	whoppix: I tried to write a log analyser in Haskell once.
rindolf	whoppix: it segfaulted.
rindolf	whoppix: a CL-one was much better.
Caelum	rindolf: haha
whoppix	sadness
rindolf	whoppix: then people showed me how to write it better.
rindolf	whoppix: but it segfaulted too.
whoppix	haha
Caelum	hahaha
Zoffix	lol
rindolf	whoppix: I gave up on using Haskell for production.
Caelum	rindolf: I've submitted your story to bash.org

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Log Analyser in Haskell

Best Kind of Bugs

rindolf	perlmonkey2: I've ran into a strange problem with CMake. It's some kind of bug that disappears after running a few commands.
perlmonkey2	rindolf: heh, the best kind of bugs are intermittant and only happen under load :P
rindolf	perlmonkey2: it's not load.
daemon	The best kind of bugs are the ones that do not happen at all :)
rindolf	daemon: heh.
rindolf	daemon++
Altreus	The best kind of bugs are the ones that only happen to people you hate.
perlmonkey2	hahahaha
Altreus	Those aren't usually bugs
Altreus	>:)
daemon	Altreus, you mean the ones you coded to happen to that said person ;)
daemon	hehe
Altreus	Not being able to reproduce strange behaviour is fine too

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Best kind of bugs

The IRC-Based UNIX Shell

* Zoffix	&
^Quiddity	Zoffix: fg
apeiron	^Quiddity, no
apeiron	kill %1
rindolf	kill -9 apeiron
apeiron	rindolf, EPERM
^Quiddity	kill: apeiron: arguments must be process or job IDs
rindolf	apeiron: sudo kill -9 apeiron
^Quiddity	killall -9 apeiron
rindolf	pkill -9 apeiron
apeiron	rindolf, user rindolf is not in the sudoers file, this event will be reported
* apeiron	wonders what it says about him that he has that error message pretty much memorized
^Quiddity	apeiron: that you don't spend enough time issuing commands correctly

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	The IRC-Based UNIX Shell

Retardedness

rindolf	mst: sorry for that - that was not my intention.
mst	rindolf: I know it wasn't. you aren't that retarded. but the way your comment came across was :)
rindolf	mst: yes.
rindolf	mst++
rindolf	mst: "you aren't that retarded." - you shouldn't insult my retardedness (sp?). I worked all my life to be so retarded.
Altreus	I think you can spell made-up words like 'retardedness' however you like
carpftb	if you're a retard.
Botje	heh
Botje	working hard is the exact opposite of retardedness :]
Altreus	hardly working

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Retardedness

How to name a new Flickr-module

jfroebe	trying to come up with a replacement name for my Flickr::Simple2.. (it is based off of XML::Simple rather than XML::Parser::Lite::Tree) - Net::Flickr, Flickr::API, Flickr::Simple are already taken. Any ideas? I'm coming up blank for a name
jfroebe	It is a Perl interface to Flickr
mofino	wait
rindolf	jfroebe: ah, I saw your message on Chicago.pm
rindolf	jfroebe: maybe WWW::Flickr
mofino	you found others and decided you needed to make ANOTHER perl interface to flickr?
jfroebe	the other ones have been broken for a long time (either because of use of the abandoned XML::Parser::Lite::Tree module or because the authentication method was never correctly implemented)
buu	jfroebe: Please no more names involving ::Simple
rindolf	buu: ::Tiny
jfroebe	WWW::Flickr is a good possibility
buu	Thanks rindolf.
mofino	hah tiny is the new simple
rindolf	::Minimal.
buu	::SeriouslyfuckingSmall
rindolf	::NotEnough
rindolf	::GargantuanlySmall
rindolf	::Minuscule
apeiron	::Warning::Uses::XML::Simple::And::Thus::Has:: Terrible::Performance::And::Memory::Usage
Fah	::Deficient
mofino	stay in the Flickr:: space
rindolf	apeiron++
mofino	if there already is one
jfroebe	mofino.. that's the problem what to name it
nadim	::Nano
nadim	that should be small enough and it sounds serious
mofino	jfroebe, something in Flickr:: ;)
rindolf	::Femto
jfroebe	lol - understood
mofino	jfroebe, ::Improved ::Modern ::Lite ::Tiny ::FUCKYEAH
rindolf	jfroebe: a Rose by any other name...
mofino	IS A DUCK
rindolf	I think half the posts to module-authors are about "How shall I name this module?"
mofino	haha
ik	I use perlmonks for that ^_^
rindolf	jfroebe: I'm not a fan of XML::Simple either.
mofino	XML::Simple is teh awesome
ik	1;
ik	XML::Simple is teh sux
mofino	whatever
ik	"this could be an arrayref or a hashref or a nothingref depending on how many thingies were in your doo-dad"
mofino	force it
ik	yes
mofino	but yeah, that is a bit annoying
rindolf	ik++ - my thoughts exactly.
mofino	OH SUDDEN HASHREF
apeiron	XML::Simple is the MySQL of XML parsers.
mofino	haha
mofino	ahh mysql, DOOOMED
rindolf	Haha # apeiron++
kent\n	lol @ > apeiron
drforr	There's a reason it's called "Simple." You'll find out about 3 days after you start using it.
kent\n	would it be anything releated to being feature-incomplete
drforr	That would be be why it's "simple".
jfroebe	but for simple XML data (i.e. Flickr's REST API), it is more than sufficient
kent\n	define "simple" XML
kent\n	$xml = '<' # already too complex
jfroebe	kent - lol
jfroebe	:)
jfroebe	thoughts on Flickr::YA::API ?
jfroebe	for a name
mofino	jfroebe, YA?
jfroebe	yet another
mofino	...
mofino	just pick a name
mofino	Flickr::API
mofino	oh, nevermind
jfroebe	mofino - now you see.. all the good ones are taken ;-)
mofino	maybe you had it at Flickr::Simple2
kent\n	Flickr::API:: something
kent\n	or something
mofino	kent\n, namespace already in use
rindolf	Flickr::Two
mofino	jfroebe, since your API is an improvement over Simple
nadim	mst: lol
kent\n	Flickr::API::SucksLess
rindolf	jfroebe: you can call it Flickr::Jfroebey
jfroebe	mofino, I think you might be right.
kent\n	Flicker::API::FAFINAFA
jfroebe	rindolf - lol ... my head is already big enough lol
mofino	jfroebe, i mean, if that's what it is, it shows a clear progression from Simple
kent\n	( Flicker::API::FAFINAFA is not a flickr api )
nadim	Flicker::rekcilF
rindolf	jfroebe: I have released Spork::Shlomify with some random changes to Spork that I needed.
rindolf	Well, I use subclassing to implement them.
jfroebe	lmao
apeiron	You forked that spork!
rindolf	apeiron: it's not a fork! It's an improved spork!
rindolf	Flickr::Bettr
kent\n	Flickr::Strobe
kent\n	( its a bit brighter )
kent\n	Flickr::OnAndOff
nadim	Flickr::FullBeam
nadim	Flickr::FullLights
kent\n	Flickr::2009
mofino	Flickr::Meat
kent\n	that way somebody will be able to invent something better next year
kent\n	and call it Flickr::2010
mofino	Flickr::rkcilF
mofino	Flickr::Barbie::Edition
mofino	Flickr::Nuts
nadim	Flickr::3b0f3a25d07e5d9dbdf98db15ee70410 (and no, it is not random)
mofino	Flickr::911wasaninsidejob
nadim	hehe
mofino	haha
jfroebe	thanks guys :) I've requested the Flickr::Simple2 namespace via pause

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	"A rose by any other name…" (and a little on XML::Simple)

Whatever

Mel\|work	Yaakov: icke==troll?
rindolf	Mel\|work: no, he's not a troll.
Yaakov	Mel\|work: No, icke is just... enthusiastic about "channel purity"
Mel\|work	k....
* rindolf	hates when people abuse the == operator in English for "contained in"
apeiron	rindolf, "icke contained in troll"? That's not what Mel\|work meant.
tarbo	sure he did, if you make troll a set of users
rindolf	apeiron: what he meant by icke == troll is that icke belongs to the set of trolls.
rindolf	apeiron: not that every troll in the world is icke.
apeiron	rindolf, No, he was asking if icke is a troll.
icke	$icke->isa('Troll');
icke	(false)
rindolf	apeiron: is-a means "contained in the set of objects with the property of"
rindolf	apeiron: mathematically speaking.
apeiron	rindolf, Okay, so you're assigning the mathematical meaning of == to its usage in a perl channel?
apeiron	rindolf, Now who's fiddling with meanings, eh?
rindolf	apeiron: whatever.
apeiron	'whatever' is what those who have lost their argument say.
rindolf	apeiron: whatever.
apeiron	^ QED
rindolf	apeiron: whatever.
PerlJam	apeiron: I thought that's what people who don't care say.
apeiron	PerlJam, If one doesn't care, they wouldn't respond.
PerlJam	apeiron: whatever
PerlJam	;-)
rindolf	LOL.

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Whatever

Dishsort

rindolf	My father and I joked about sorting the dishes in the dishwasher.
rindolf	My father said: "If you won't sort the dishwasher, the dishwasher won't be sorted."
Loci64	rindolf: bubble sort g
icke	dishsort
rindolf	Then I said "No, it won't be sorted by me."
rindolf	So he said "No, it won't be sorted at all. We will throw the dishwasher."
rindolf	"Along with all the dishes."
rindolf	Loci64: bubble sort is inefficient.
rindolf	Loci64: you should use quicksort or mergesort.
whoppix	or bashsort, or heapsort!
icke	yeah, but thorough.
rindolf	Loci64: or for small values of "N" - insertion sort.
whoppix	although I can't remember if those were stable.
rindolf	whoppix: what is bashsort?
icke	that matters for a dishwasher
EvanCarroll	/bin/sort
EvanCarroll	duh
Loci64	hehe, but dishwashers usually have medium to large numbers of N ;-) maybe trashsort solves the problem
rindolf	EvanCarroll: perldoc -f sort is more portable.
whoppix	rindolf, shellsort, not bashsort, sorry :)
rindolf	But I'll need to build a robot to use it with the dishes.
icke	cshsort
EvanCarroll	here must be a trillion sorting algos
EvanCarroll	and 9/10 of them are total shit
EvanCarroll	and inferior in every way.
EvanCarroll	This sorting algorithem is coveted if you KNOW that only one value is out of perfect order and it sits in the second to last position of the input.

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	dishsort

Good scalar localtime()

rindolf	Good localtime(), #perl!
sproingie	rindolf: good scalar localtime to you
rindolf	sproingie: oooh! scalar context.
sproingie	well i didn't want to make ya parse it
rindolf	sproingie: it is implied however.
sproingie	(er unparse it)
rindolf	Good strftime($format, localtime()).
rindolf	But better use DateTime.
rindolf	Or something.
icke	sub good ($$$) { ... }
rindolf	icke: yes.
rindolf	eval: good localtime(), #perl!
buubot3	rindolf: ERROR: syntax error at (eval 21) line 1, near "good localtime"
Altreus	eval: 'hi rindolf how is your '.scalar localtime.'?'
buubot3	Altreus: hi rindolf how is your Tue Mar 10 15:43:13 2009?
rindolf	Altreus: how is my Tuesday, 10-March-2009?
rindolf	Altreus: or do you mean down right to that exact second.
Altreus	rindolf: I gave you as much information as I could for you to use as you see fit.
Altreus	If you don't need it all you can just take the date

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Good scalar localtime()

The Module::Build Saga

rindolf	The Module::Build saga goes on!
mst	Module::Build isn't a saga, it's a fucking horror series

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Module::Build

How to say IP?

Altreus	Hmm I should have checked the licence on Inline::Lua
dwu	orochi_: licence it and people will steal it anyway :)
Yaakov	Well, you can try to steal that, but it would be like a mouse stealing a battle tank.
dwu	Altreus: you mean acronym?
Altreus	Perl license
Altreus	dwu: n
Altreus	IP is not pronounced as a word so it is not an acronym.
Altreus	At least not in the original meaning of the word: which is the only meaning given by a majority of dictionaries
Yaakov	Yes, it's not a true acronym, though the word now has that baggage.
orochi_	Ip Ip Ip!
Altreus	ni!
* orochi_	runs away
dwu	Altreus: i say ip... :)
Yaakov	IP would be an abbreviation.
dwu	also, initials? but isms are cool.
rindolf	I see Eye.Pea.
dwu	oooh yes.
dwu	and dead people?
* rindolf	is listening to Sesame Street - Yip Yip Martians
Altreus	dwu: Intent is involved; just because you say it as a word does not mean it was meant to be said as a word ;)
Altreus	wikipedia knows about it, and has like a million sauces cited
Altreus	mostly dictionaries
Yaakov	YAPC is an acronymic moniker! BE THERE
dwu	Altreus: well absolutement :) also, yumy, i like bernaise.
rindolf	I say* Eye.Pea.
dwu	hrrrm, the oxford cream dictionary. nomnomnom
dwu	rindolf: awww.
ne2k__	Eye.Pea.Freely
rindolf	dwu: heh
ne2k__	no-one says "ip", everyone says "Eye Pea"
Altreus	Ip address
dwu	rindolf: can you just -say- dead people, for the heck of it?
rindolf	Yip address
dwu	ne2k__: provably false. i need an ip address, stat!
Altreus	yiff address?
rindolf	dwu: I say dead people.
dwu	<3 rindolf
rindolf	dwu: I say.
dwu	you do :)
Altreus	I say I say I say
rindolf	dwu: :-)
ne2k__	dwu: you can't stat an ip address, only a file

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	How to say IP?

And you coll yourself a programmer

rindolf	Su-Shee: it's VBA, not VB.
rindolf	Su-Shee: completely different beast.
rindolf	Su-Shee: and much saner.
rindolf	Su-Shee: I don't know VB.
rindolf	Never had the need.
c0bra	_Fauchi95_: alright
fuzzix	rindolf: And you coll yourself a programmer...
rindolf	And hopefully will never have the need.
rindolf	fuzzix: call
fuzzix	rindolf: Good coll. Dvorak's tough after spending the day on qwerty :)
rindolf	fuzzix: coll again?
rindolf	Hmm... there is such a word called "coll".
fuzzix	rindolf: That one was a joke :)
c0bra	why stop now? he's on a roll
rindolf	Wonder what it means.
rindolf	fuzzix: ah.
simcop2387	c0bra: a rick roll?
rindolf	rall
c0bra	a coll roll
rindolf	roll the ball.
rindolf	rall the boll.
rindolf	And go to the Super-bowl.
c0bra	Coll\, v. t. [OF. coler, fr. L. collum neck.] To embrace.
rindolf	"Rolling is hard. Let's go to the mall."

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	You coll yourself a programmer

Chuck Norris as a Refactorer

Su-Shee	2010 is planned more or less as a refactoring year.
DrForr_	A whole year? What physical plane of existence do you reside on?
Su-Shee	DrForr_: there's also bugs to fix and systems to care for and things like that. it's not that we're locked into the closet and a year later a new, shiny product is released. ;)
DrForr_	Closet optional.
Su-Shee	I'm not a wonderwoman refactoring half a million lines of perl in a week, sorry. :)
rindolf	Su-Shee: Chuck Norris refactors 10 millions lines of perl before lunch.
Su-Shee	rindolf: hm. that's the reason.. I'm not as hairy as chuck norris and I don't have a beard...
rindolf	Su-Shee: ah.
rindolf	Su-Shee: Chuck Norris also wrote a complete Perl 6 implementation.
Su-Shee	rindolf: I heard, he already wrote Perl 7.
rindolf	Su-Shee: yes.
* rindolf	wants to be as awesome as Chuck when he grows up.
Su-Shee	rindolf: I envy you. I'll never be as awesome without a beard.
rindolf	Su-Shee: heh.
rindolf	Su-Shee: it doesn't matter if you're rigid on the outside as long as you're rigid on the inside.
Su-Shee	chuck norris doesn't make mistakes.
rindolf	Su-Shee: Chuck Norris corrects God.
Su-Shee	rindolf: I'll apply as his secretary.
rindolf	Su-Shee: as Chuck's?
Su-Shee	rindolf: yes.
rindolf	Su-Shee: OK.
rindolf	Chuck Norris doesn't code. When he sits next to a computer, it just does whatever he wants.
Su-Shee	I'll tell my boss tomorrow. Chuck is who he wants.
rindolf	Su-Shee: Chuck Norris is his own boss.
rindolf	Su-Shee: if you hire him, he'll tell your boss what to do.
Su-Shee	good point.

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Becoming as awesome as Chuck Norris is

The Voices Tell Me So.

integral	hi perly!
perlygatekeeper	hey Chris, hey integral
perlygatekeeper	dabreegster, don't know you do I but HEY anyway
perlygatekeeper	what's been up?
dabreegster	Ignore me, fine.
* dabreegster	goes in a corner
Chris62vw	dabreegster is the man, man
dabreegster	Ah, that's better.
rindolf	perlygatekeeper: yo, yo, yo, dude!
perlygatekeeper	rindolf!!
rindolf	perlygatekeeper: what's up?
perlygatekeeper	hmmm
perlygatekeeper	not much
perlygatekeeper	you?
rindolf	perlygatekeeper: fine. Let me recall what I said to ezra.
rindolf	perlygatekeeper: I'm fine. Got into a few flamewars, and escaped alive to tell the tale.
rindolf	perlygatekeeper: worked a bit on my story "The Human Hacking Field Guide".
rindolf	perlygatekeeper: (which, BTW, you appear there (as your IRC nick at least)
rindolf	perlygatekeeper: and now working on the Computer Graphics section of my homepage.
perlygatekeeper	rindolf, what the hell?
rindolf	perlygatekeeper: excuse me?
perlygatekeeper	rindolf was that someone pretending to be me?
perlygatekeeper	I never said those things
rindolf	perlygatekeeper: it's a fictitious story.
rindolf	perlygatekeeper: relax.
dabreegster	perlygatekeeper: or you could be the imposter right now... or maybe just schizophrenic.
rindolf	dabreegster: MPDed not schizophrenic.
rindolf	dabreegster: schizophrenia is not Multi-Persona-Disordered.
b0at	perlygatekeeper: It's fan fiction from your fan!
dabreegster	rindolf: what's the difference?
rindolf	dabreegster: MPD is when there are several personalities living inside your brain.
rindolf	dabreegster: in schizophrenia, you have one I-ness, but hear voices, hallucinate and stuff.
dabreegster	rindolf: Ah. Why is it considered a disorder? MPD could be quite useful... One would have different perspectives on a subject.
perlygatekeeper	where's beth, she'll know it's me
integral	But how will we know it's beth?!
dabreegster	rindolf: Oh, I have MPD then, not schizophrenia. I don't hallucinate.
dabreegster	integral: WE DON'T!
b0at	I don't hallucinate, but my other personality does.
dabreegster	How do I know all of you exist? Am I just a figment of my own imagination?
dabreegster	b0at: Interesting...
rindolf	dabreegster: Julian Jaynes describes schizophrenia very well in his "The Origins of Consciousness during the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind book".
integral	nono, you're all just figments of _lilo_'s imagination
dabreegster	rindolf: I'll check it out
b0at	he wishes
dabreegster	integral: and you?
perlygatekeeper	the voices tell me if it's really beth or not
dabreegster	perlygatekeeper: The voices tell me everything.
dabreegster	Wait, I do have the Voices. Maybe I have MPD _and_ schizophrenia.
b0at	Ah, but the question is: do the Voices have voices?
rindolf	dabreegster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Origin_of_Consciousness_in_the_Breakdown_of_the_Bicameral_Mind
b0at	And if so, is it your own voice?
dabreegster	b0at: And do the voices of the voices have voices?
b0at	That's just going too far.
dkr	don't worry, those are angels, invest in tarot cards and you will be able to understand them
dabreegster	b0at: and if it's not, then could it be the voice of........ integral? rindolf? or.... buu!
b0at	buu has other plans for our empty skulls
dabreegster	b0at: and if they do, then what do the voices of the voices of the voices of the Voices sound like?
integral	sob it's the cabbages. The cabbages keep telling me to do things
Botje	really? most of the time it's the socks that tell me stuff
dabreegster	integral: The lawn gnomes tell me. They're........everywhere...sniffle
integral	blubber the socks are worse, there's moths living in them
dabreegster	The lawn gnomes tell me to stay away from Life. They force me to write poetry.
dabreegster	integral: whispering are the _moths_ the Voices? or the voices of the Voices? or the voices of the voices of the Voices?
* dabreegster	goes back to reading
integral	looks furtively around for moths

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	The voices told me so.

Hacking someone into a hacker

rindolf	Su-Shee: I'm not good in detecting sarcasm over IRC.
rindolf	But naturally sometimes say sarcastic things myself.
* Patterner	cuts his Nerd Membership Card in small pieces
Su-Shee	rindolf: that's why god gave us the ;) smiley ;)
rindolf	Su-Shee: not God, but a Russian enterpreneur who trademarked it.
* rindolf	wishes we were all speaking in XML.
rindolf	J/K.
rindolf	Even Perl is not good enough for human communication.
Su-Shee	rindolf: are you really still that nerdy in your age?
rindolf	Su-Shee: I guess.
rindolf	Su-Shee: nerdy or geeky?
rindolf	Su-Shee: I.e: technologically inclined or having no social life?
* rindolf	is both though.
Su-Shee	rindolf: so let's called it nerky. ;)
rindolf	But hopefully once I get a gf, I'll be less of a Nerd.
Su-Shee	rindolf: what makes you think that?
rindolf	Su-Shee: I'll go out.
rindolf	Su-Shee: and stuff.
rindolf	Su-Shee: I also consider to start studying in Tel Aviv Uni.
Su-Shee	rindolf: and why does that require a girl friend?
rindolf	English/Hebrew/etc. or something.
rindolf	Lots of girls there. :-)
rindolf	Su-Shee: going out?
Su-Shee	those are language-skills humanities-department girls. ;)
Su-Shee	rindolf: yes.
rindolf	Su-Shee: I like language geeks.
rindolf	Thing is I think my knowledge of English and Hebrew is too superficial.
rindolf	And I lack the discipline to correct it on my own.
Su-Shee	rindolf: language departments like English are usually exactly _not_ geek-ish departments.
rindolf	Su-Shee: you mean they are not tech-savvy?
rindolf	But you can be an English geek.
Su-Shee	rindolf: they're not even language geeks usually.
rindolf	Or a hacker of English.
rindolf	Su-Shee: really?
rindolf	How sad.
Su-Shee	rindolf: you know some people just want to have good language skills and read books and communicate.
peterrooney	a good hacker will know at least three languages.
rindolf	Well, maybe it's different in Israel.
rindolf	peterrooney: human ones, right?
peterrooney	rindolf: at least one of them should be human
rindolf	I know English, Hebrew, studied Literary Arabic for 6 years and forgot most of it, and have some rudimentary French.
rindolf	peterrooney: ok.
rindolf	peterrooney: I think ever hacker should know Perl, Python, Haskell, C, Scheme/Lisp and Bash.
rindolf	And HTML/XHTML+CSS+etc.
Su-Shee	thank god I'm no hacker. ;)
* rindolf	hacks Su-Shee into a hacker.
Su-Shee	rindolf: no you won't. one can perfectly well do nice tech stuff without degrading into someone he/she's not.
rindolf	Su-Shee: don't you like programming ? Didn't you contribute to FOSS?
Su-Shee	rindolf: aaand? I can do that without declaring myself as hacker, nerd, geek or whatever.
rindolf	Su-Shee: OK.
rindolf	Su-Shee: but it still makes you a hacker.
Su-Shee	rindolf: trust me, I'm very much not a hacker. really. honest to god not.
* rindolf	gives a blue badge of honour saying "Hacker" to Su-Shee
rindolf	Su-Shee: too late, you're one of us now! ;-)
rindolf	"Resistance is futile."

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Hacking someone into a hacker

Selling Perl Documentation at Bargain Prices

FreakGuard	icke, how to start REPL?
icke	FreakGuard: looked in the docs?
FreakGuard	icke, no.
icke	you got to load it from CPAN
FreakGuard	icke, yeah, I've installed it.
* Altreus	sells FreakGuard perl docs at a reasonable price only $9.99 each
icke	perldoc Devel::REPL is the direct way to info then
* Altreus	wrings his hands and cackles
FreakGuard	icke, thanks :P
* rindolf	bests Altreus' bargain by 1 cent.
rindolf	Reminds me of what I learned in Game Theory.
* Altreus	offers free delivery
* rindolf	allows free download
rindolf	Of course quality > price.
* rindolf	offers a deluxe edition of the Perl documentation for 1,000 USD plus shipping and handling.
huf	diamond-encrusted?
rindolf	See http://perldoc.perl.org/ for a preview.
rindolf	huf: natural diamonds, too.
rindolf	huf: Canadian diamonds.
huf	well, if <> is natural... :)
rindolf	huf: heh.
rindolf	huf: not this kind of diamond.
* Altreus	compresses if () under several million tonnes of rock for a few aeons
rindolf	I also give free spaceships - <=>
infrared	heh
rindolf	Diamonds are heresy! We need PEARLs!
rindolf	/usr/bin/PEARL
Altreus	f00li5h: Seems like it!
FreakGuard	I prefer other gems :-)
Altreus	I suggested to Think Geek that they should do Perl necklaces but they didn't
rindolf	FreakGuard: Ruby gems?
FreakGuard	rindolf, correct.
Altreus	The rare PHP
Altreus	Darling I got you a PHP wedding ring
Altreus	oh it broke
rindolf	Altreus: as PHP tends to.
* rindolf	laughts maniacally.
Altreus	you maniac!

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Given enough suckers, all profits become shallow

The ApeironPhone

Enl	apeiron: because I write client side (Provider) which sends push messages to the phone and checks for new mail in perl
rindolf	Enl: a cellphone?
apeiron	No, a rotary POTS phone that's capable of receiving email, rindolf.
Enl	rindolf: iphone, yep
rindolf	apeiron: :-) apeiron++
rindolf	apeiron: I want a phone like that!
rindolf	apeiron: do you sell them?
apeiron	rindolf, Yes, and I have some oceanfront property for you, too.
rindolf	apeiron: would you accept some of my copious gold bars in return?
apeiron	rindolf, No. I only deal in Latinum!
rindolf	apeiron: Latinum.
rindolf	apeiron: gold-pressed Latinum?
apeiron	yes.
rindolf	apeiron: I only have silver-pressed Latinum.
Enl	rindolf: get an iPhone, lol
rindolf	apeiron: would you accept LeoNerd and nanonyme as substitutes ? You can sell them for mucho Latinum.
apeiron	heh
rindolf	Enl: iPhones are worthless.
* rindolf	conspires to steal the ApeironPhones.
rindolf	I didn't say I was honest.
* apeiron	jealously guards his G1
Enl	rindolf: now really
rindolf	Enl: you should get an ApeironPhone too.
rindolf	Enl: chicks love it.
apeiron	what
Enl	rindolf: pff, chicks dont matter
rindolf	I would kill for an ApeironPhone!
Su-Shee	ahaem?
* rindolf	kills Su-Shee and takes her ApeironPhone.
apeiron	...
apeiron	wtf.
go\|dfish	hahaha
* rindolf	uses his RindolfMindReading™ to see who else has an ApeironPhone.
apeiron	Put down the acid, Shlomi. o.o
huf	like that'll help
huf	he's still got ~8 hrs on it
Su-Shee	rindolf: I have an apeiron-phone?
Su-Shee	where did buu go anyway?
rindolf	Su-Shee: you had one.
rindolf	Su-Shee: before you died.

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	The ApeironPhone - you know you want it

use Zaba

rindolf	Su-Shee: "I always wonder why the people I hang out with are so pedantic. And then I remember: because they are so pedantic." -- a Perl-ILer. ;-)
Zaba	rindolf, because they use warnings
* rindolf	adds "use Zaba;" to his code.
Zaba	oh no, I'm being used!
* rindolf	adds "abuse Zaba;" to his code.
rindolf	Next: "misuse Zaba;"
Zaba	ouch!

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	use Zaba

She can smoke…

rindolf	She's a hot chick.
rindolf	But she smokes.
go\|dfish	She can smoke as long as she's smokin'.

Channel	#perlcafe
Network	Freenode
Tagline	She can smoke…

iCanHazPad?

→johnjohn01	has joined #perl
johnjohn101	when will I be able to write a perl gui that will work on the ipad?
rindolf	johnjohn101: iPad?
rindolf	johnjohn101: was it released yet?
rindolf	johnjohn101: I think there are Perl bindings for Cocoa/Carbon/etc.
johnjohn101	today.. Just getting sucked by the hype
rindolf	johnjohn101: ah.
rindolf	johnjohn101: I'm incredibly suspicious of Apple.
johnjohn101	why's that?
* Caelum	will wait for the cheap ipad knockoff that runs Android and can multitask
rindolf	johnjohn101: http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/anti/apple/
rindolf	133 links and going strong.
* rindolf	thinks he has a link on his homepage or blogs for every occasion.
johnjohn101	they definitely know how to hype their new products. I get so suspicious of the hype. Nothing ever lives up to that type of billing
rindolf	johnjohn101: yes, I'm suspicious of hype too.
gooshie	rindolf the new apple maxipad is out today.. leave it to apple to create a new device with all the cost of a high end laptop.. the performance of a netbook and the interface of a cellphone
Caelum	gooshie: and no multitasking
rindolf	gooshie: heh.
rindolf	gooshie++
johnjohn101	will google be able to match it?
johnjohn101	anytime soon?
rindolf	Some technologies were not hyped and yet became very popular - UNIX, C, HTML.
Caelum	there's no amazingly complicated technology involved
Caelum	it's just a big iphone
claes_	nicely packaged
johnjohn101	drop it once and it's unusable?
gooshie	...if they just made a cover to protect the screen.. and then maybe because they had like a cover the inside could be the screen and the other part could then be a keyboard!.. that would be cool!
johnjohn101	gooshie: good thing you have an open mind about the product!!
* gooshie	d:-/
gooshie	..the new apple maxipad... when your laptop is too big.. your iphone is too small and your wallet is too full.

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	iCanHazPad?

Web Development Frameworks

markl_	so while i'm on the subject, is there a good perl HTML framework similar to what CakePHP is to PHP ?
markl_	like an MVC style environment
markl_	so i'm wondering if mason is "state of the art" or if there are other tools to consider these days :)
DrForr	Catalyst.
markl_	catalyst ok, cool ty
rindolf	markl_: there are plenty of other web-devel frameworks.
rindolf	perlbot: web frameworks
perlbot	rindolf: CGI-Application (and Titanium), CGI-Application-Plus, CGI-Builder, CGI-Prototype, Jifty, Catalyst (and Reaction), Mojo, SweetPea, Dancer, Gantry, AxKit, WebGUI
markl_	rindolf: hmm, way too many it would appear :)
rindolf	markl_: yeah.
markl_	what are the easiest ones for people good with perl but not HTML/CSS/AJAX experts ?
rindolf	markl_: not that Ruby or PHP have fewer.
markl_	or the most widely adopted one ?
rindolf	markl_: the most popular appears to be Catalyst.
markl_	catalyst seems to at least have a book :)
rindolf	markl_: it has several books.
rindolf	markl_: I worked a bit with Mojolicious, and it wasn't too bad, but it reinvents a lot of wheels.
rindolf	Due to its philosophy.
rindolf	markl_: I also did some Catalyst projects.
rindolf	Catalyst is a bit complicated.
rindolf	sawyer: can you comment about Dancer?
sawyer	Dancer is a lightweight web framework, it aims to make website development easy and rapid
Su-Shee	like all the other web frameworks :)
sawyer	for complex or extensive websites, i recommend Catalyst
sawyer	but for smaller or not-as-complex website, Dancer is what i use
markl_	ok ty
* Su-Shee	wants the one which makes it hard, complicated and difficult ;)
sawyer	Su-Shee, true :)

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Web Development Frameworks

Slippers and Perl

mst	frikinz: but you're welcome to ignore us, just come back for your "I told you so" when the penny finally drops :D
rindolf	buu: define penny finally drops
rindolf	buubot: define penny finally drops
buubot	rindolf: penny n 1: a fractional monetary unit of Ireland and the United Kingdom; equal to one hundredth of a pound 2: a coin worth one-hundredth of the value of the basic unit [syn: {cent}, {centime}] [also: {pence} (pl)]
dngor	frikinz: Reflex is still pretty raw, but it's eventy without so much loopy.
rindolf	In Hebrew we say "The phone token has fallen" instead of "the penny finally drops".
dngor	Is that related to "the other shoe has dropped"?
rindolf	dngor: well, it means the same thing as the English expression - "I finally got to the bottom of it."
rindolf	Or understood it.
dngor	Oh, they're completely different idioms.
* mst	beats dngor with a slipper
rindolf	mst: :-D
Su-Shee	kinky.
mst	Su-Shee: wrt the topic ["Su-Shee wants the web-development framework that makes web-development hard, difficult and complicated"], it's called Maypole :)
rindolf	mst: heh.
rindolf	mst: yes, I can imagine that about Maypole.
Su-Shee	mst, avar: thank you so much. ;)
Su-Shee	please mail the sourcecode to rindolf who put it in the topic ;)
rindolf	Su-Shee: I can CPAN it.
Su-Shee	the topic?
mutewit	I have a string and am looking for a quick way to extract all 5-character slices out of it.
rindolf	Su-Shee: :-)
rindolf	IRC-Freenode-Perl-Topic-SuShee-WebDevelFrameworks-v0.0.1.tar.gz
mutewit	For eg. 'abcdef' returns 'abcde', 'bcdef'
mutewit	Any suggestions?
rindolf	mutewit: use subst
rindolf	mutewit: use substr
rindolf	mutewit: with a map
rindolf	eval: my $long_str = "0123456789abcdefgh"; [map { substr($long_s, $_, $_+5 } (0 .. length($long_s)-5)]
buubot	rindolf: ERROR: syntax error at (eval 36) line 1, at EOF
rindolf	eval: my $long_str = "0123456789abcdefgh"; [map { substr($long_s, $_, $_+5) } (0 .. length($long_s)-5)]
buubot	rindolf: []
mutewit	rindolf: Awesome.
rindolf	eval: my $long_s = "0123456789abcdefgh"; [map { substr($long_s, $_, $_+5) } (0 .. length($long_s)-5)]
buubot	rindolf: ["01234",123456,2345678,"3456789a","456789abc","56789abcde","6789abcdefg","789abcdefgh","89abcdefgh","9abcdefgh","abcdefgh","bcdefgh","cdefgh","defgh"]
rindolf	Thrid time the charm!
mst	... thrid
* rindolf	hits buubot with a big strict pragma.
* mst	turns the slipper on rindolf
rindolf	mst: yes, my typing sucks today.
rindolf	But f**k it! IRC is not exactly the declaration of independence.
pragma_	ow!
rindolf	pragma_: pardon?
* rindolf	hits pragma_ with mst's slipper so it will really hurt.
pragma_	why are you hitting buubot with me?
rindolf	pragma_: the strict pragma.
rindolf	pragma_: not you.
rindolf	perlbot: strict
perlbot	rindolf: Perl strictures - http://perldoc.perl.org/strict.html
rindolf	pragma_: ^^^
rindolf	pragma_: we call the lowercase modules pragmata (sp?) in Perl.
rindolf	http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=pragmata - hmm....
rindolf	I thought pragmata was a valid plural of pragma.
dngor	ow? ow!
mutewit	rindolf: Are you sure that generates only strings of length 5?
rindolf	mutewit: well, you need to watch from fencepost errors.
mst	mutewit: hey, he got you half way there
rindolf	mutewit: oh wait.
mst	mutewit: how about you read p3rl.org/substr and p3rl.org/map and have a go yourself
rindolf	mutewit: yes , you need substr($long_s, $_, 5)
mst	mutewit: this is a help-you-to-learn channel
mst	mutewit: not a "write your code for you" channel
rindolf	mutewit: and beware from fencepost errors.
rindolf	like substr($long_s , 1000, 5)
rindolf	Because that will be ""
rindolf	Or a 4 chars length.
mutewit	rindolf: I wanted the length argument to be 5 :p
mutewit	mst: I understand, I just missed the $_ + 5 issue.
mst	mutewit: right. what I'm saying is, you should have experimented
rindolf	mutewit: yes, I know.
mst	mutewit: then shown us the experiment and said "I can't work out why this is still wrong, here's what I've worked out so far"
mst	mutewit: then we can help you learn
mst	mutewit: assuming learning to write stuff yourself is what you're aiming for
* rindolf	waits for tybalt89 to come up with a funky regex to do it.
mst	(if it isn't, please just throw yourself off a cliff or something, kthx ;)
rindolf	mst: I think that's the case, no need to preach to mutewit about it.
mutewit	mutewit: I did, and figured out the soln. when switching windows.
mst	mutewit: aye. I'm just trying to explain how to get the most learning out of us as well as the most working code.
* rindolf	sometimes thinks we spend much more IRC volume discussing netiquette than actually suffering from the bad netiquette.
mutewit	But by the time I came back to the channel there was a whole page of "preaching".
mutewit	I was using a split method with array indexing and it felt too much like a C-approach.
rindolf	mutewit: oh, you split the string into chars?
mst	yeah, by the time you've done map, join, split, ...
mst	you've basically just reimplemented substr badly :)
mutewit	rindolf: That's what I was doing, but the map/substr approach is a lot cleaner.
rindolf	mutewit: yeah/
rindolf	mutewit: split into chars sometimes has some uses.
rindolf	mutewit: but this reminds me too much of SICP.
rindolf	perlbot: sicp
perlbot	rindolf: http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/ - "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs" - A Classical Text on Programming
rindolf	mutewit: see - http://www.shlomifish.org/lecture/Perl/Lightning/Too-Many-Ways/slides/slide13.html
rindolf	mutewit: this is how an SICP programmer will implement a simple text processing task.
mutewit	SICP, love the book.
mutewit	and all the OCaml work this year has given rise to a functional bent of mind
mutewit	which is kinda screwing around with my perl code.
rindolf	mutewit: yeah.
rindolf	mutewit: http://www.shlomifish.org/lecture/Perl/Lightning/Too-Many-Ways/slides/slide12.html - this is the fastest Perl solution.
rindolf	At least in speed.
rindolf	It can be a little shorter with a regex lookahead, but it's less elegant and slower.
rindolf	http://www.shlomifish.org/lecture/Perl/Lightning/Too-Many-Ways/slides/slide9.html - there you go.
rindolf	mutewit: did you know how to program before reading SICP?
rindolf	I think it's not a good introductory book.
rindolf	MIT are going to ditch it in favour of some Python/Robotics curriculum.
mst	I think it's only a good introductory book if you know some math and have the brain to follow it
mst	it teaches a lot of hard concepts very quickly
Su-Shee	mst: from a "I'm from the humanities department" point of view it's managable. it's not easy, but everyone can work with it.
tybalt89	eval: $_ = "0123456789abcdefgh"; [ /(?=(.{5}))/g ]
buubot	tybalt89: ["01234",12345,23456,34567,45678,56789,"6789a","789ab","89abc","9abcd","abcde","bcdef","cdefg","defgh"]
mutewit	rindolf: Yes.
rindolf	mutewit: ah. Using what?
rindolf	tybalt89++ # Up for the challenge.
mutewit	and yes, MIT ditched SICP in favor of a Python-based intro course.
tybalt89	rindolf: I was off in other windows :(
tybalt89	mutewit: ^^ for 5 char slices
rindolf	mutewit: don't use it if you want future generations to understand it.
* rindolf	slaps tybalt89 with mst's slipper for golfing mutewit's solution and telling him it's a good idea.
tybalt89	rindolf: that's not golfing, just common simple regex :)
rindolf	tybalt89: sigh.
rindolf	tybalt89: simple.
rindolf	irregular regular expression.
rindolf	Maybe use Regexp::Common
mutewit	I added in tybalt89's code but commented it for future reference.
mst	I'd definitely use the substr approach for real code
mst	tybalt89's code is cleverness to prove it can be done; I don't believe he was recommending it
tybalt89	mst: sigh, yes, I am recommending it. It's the clearest solution.
mst	tybalt89: I respectfully disagree.
mst	I find the substr approach far more obvious
Chazz	rindolf, ty. :)
mst	but then, I mostly write applications perl rather than scripts, so I only engage in regexp cleverness when actively useful
rindolf	tybalt89: look-aheads and look-behinds are dark corners of the Perl not-so-reg-regexes
Yaakov	In the context of this particular problem, it's pretty straightforward, but, knowledge of the development/maintenance team(s) would push my choce one way or another.
tybalt89	mst: note it took rindolf three tries, and even then he got it wrong.
rindolf	tybalt89: well, I'm not focused now.
mst	tybalt89: map substr($str, $_, 5), 0 .. length($str)-5; ?
mst	maybe -6
* tybalt89	turns the lens, trying to focus rindolf
rindolf	mst: -5
mst	but it's hardly difficult; rindolf's just having a day of silly mistakes
rindolf	Unit tests!
mst	I'd expect him to get it right first time when on form too :)
rindolf	Some clear code is hard to get right.
rindolf	Doesn't make it less clear.
mst	yeah
rindolf	Most people will not write a correct binary search at first try.
tybalt89	"maybe -6" is proof of unclearness :)
rindolf	But the correct binary search is easy to digest.
mst	tybalt89: no, it's proof it's 8pm on a sunday and I'm not particularly awake either
mst	but your code just made me go "hang on, WHAT?!"
mst	then I had to stop and dissect it
mst	-then- I saw what you were doing
rindolf	mst++
mst	also, the substr approach displays the semantics and the reasoning
mst	whereas the regex approach displays, well, line noise, frankly
rindolf	mst: why don't we agree to disagree with tybalt89 ?
rindolf	mst: so how's the weather? ;-)

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Slippers and Perl

Worst Perl Programmer in the World

papertigers	is there just a way of importing the global variables in the module from the main script?
anno	no
nadim	yes
rindolf	anno: you can using Exporter
anno	depends
nadim	but I hope no one will teach you
rindolf	nadim: sorry. :-(
anno	from the main script?
nadim	for what?
rindolf	nadim: about the Exporter.
nadim	bad boy!
tm604	papertigers: yes. but definitely don't do this: { no strict 'refs'; *{"main::$_"} = sub () { $constant{$_} } foreach keys %constant; }
rindolf	nadim: :-(
rindolf	papertigers: please design a good API using subroutines and objects.
nadim	OK I get it you are all working towards the same goal. making the worst perl developer in the universe
rindolf	nadim: yes, someone has to outcompete me.
Khisanth	that would be hard
rindolf	nadim: I'm tired of being the worst Perl hacker for 5 years straight.
simcop2387	heh
rindolf	nadim: it's not easy.
nadim	.me hands the black camel to rindolf
rindolf	nadim: it involves many commitments.
nadim	rindolf: lol, true
Khisanth	but at least it explains all the advice you have been giving
nadim	hehe
rindolf	Khisanth: true. :-)
rindolf	LOL.
simcop2387	rindolf: i dunno if anyone actually read the code to Language::Farnsworth they might think otherwise
Khisanth	and I am not joking
nadim	http://search.cpan.org/dist/Lingua-tlhInganHol-yIghun/ all!
nadim	rindolf: when you can program perl like that it will be a good day to die
rindolf	nadim: Klingon?
nadim	right
simcop2387	nadim++
rindolf	nadim: heh, nice.
squeeks	klingon? http://search.cpan.org/~jwalt/Acme-Lingua-NIGERIAN-1.0.0/NIGERIAN.pm blah.
shorten	squeeks's url is at http://xrl.us/bhg9bo
rindolf	nadim: I'll recommend it to someone so he can outcompete me.
* rindolf	rubs his hands with an evil grin on his face.
Khisanth	nadim: that doesn't seem to be using the correct font
nadim	the module is impressing (Damian is no joke) even the documentation is great
rindolf	nadim: we've got a plan!
* nadim	hides
* mst	dearly loves Damian's code
mst	but I really do wish it was all in the Acme:: namespace where it belongs
rindolf	mst: heh.
nadim	I like his API's. very difficult to find something that is not complete and well thought
rindolf	nadim: yes, but he tends to neglect them and then they accumulate bugs.
nadim	I could list ten other names here
nadim	Ingy!
rindolf	nadim: heh.
nadim	oops, I tried not to :)
mst	nadim: IO::All
mst	nadim: not everything ingy writes needs to be Acme
mst	though, yes, quite a bit of it :D
nadim	mst: I didn't mean acme. I think Ingy has a lot of great ideas.
mst	oh, you're talking about maintainership
nadim	yes
mst	yeah, why do you think I got so good at giving my modules away?
nadim	what's your secret?
tm604	ingy was responsible for jemplate, I think - still one of my favourites.
mst	nadim: first you give 'em commit bits, then you give 'em co-maint, then when they're not looking you make a run for it.
* nadim	makes a mental note

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	World's Worst Perl Programmer (5 years straight)

One Moose Per Child

rindolf	My Moose-based modules emit strange errors when ran under Devel::Cover . /me is a sad kitten.
buu	When my moose emit things I begin to worry.
Su-Shee	I don't even have a moose.
Su-Shee	but I go to Ikea sometimes!
rindolf	"I want a Moose!"
* rindolf	buys a Moose for Su-Shee
rindolf	One Moose Per Child.
buu	A moose in every.. editor?
Su-Shee	I'll have to put it in the living room.
rindolf	If we perldoc -f fork a Moose-based program do we get two Meese.
rindolf	Su-Shee: what if it's a Chocolate Moose?
Su-Shee	now it's not the elephant in the room noone's talking about, it's the moose.
Su-Shee	rindolf: real size? living room.
anno	Tycho de Brahe had a moose free running in his castle Unraniborg. he found a vat of beer, drank it, fell down a stair and had to be killed.
Su-Shee	hm, I could make a nice shower gel with moose milk powder and sell it exclusively to perl programmers.
rindolf	anno: the astronomer?
anno	yes
rindolf	anno: ah, really?
Su-Shee	anno: I don't have a castle.
anno	few do
Su-Shee	indeed.
Su-Shee	wise anno.
rindolf	One Castle Per Child!
Su-Shee	when I do my moose presentation, I'll rename myself to Moo-Shee.
rindolf	Su-Shee: and rent a Castle.
Su-Shee	good idea. on company's expenses. ;)
rindolf	Su-Shee: heh.
Su-Shee	anno: wanna come? I own Schloss Charlottenburg now. ;)
rindolf	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlottenburg_Palace - hmmm....
* rindolf	contemplates what to do now.
* Su-Shee	RESTs.
rindolf	Maybe I'll watch more of Red vs. Blue.
rindolf	Or I'll rent Schloss Charlottenburg .
rindolf	Or something.
rindolf	I may want to refactor the other parts of XML-Grammar-Fiction/Screenplay. I can live without testcover.
rindolf	But I need my Moose.

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	One Moose Per Child

Do we have any doctors?

dxtr	Do we have any doctors in here?
rindolf	dxtr: with Ph.D. or M.D.?
munik	I have a PhD in Linguistics!
munik	^ lie
munik	:]
dxtr	rindolf: I don't care as long as they can treat patients
rindolf	dxtr: heh.
munik	:o
munik	webmd.com
munik	might be better than #perl
dxtr	rindolf: That question would be fun in combat. "WE NEED A DOCTOR HERE!" - "PH.D OR M.D!?"

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Do we have any doctors in here?

It's slower

tm604	eval: my $txt = "this is a test"; my $rslt = substr($txt, 4, length($txt) - 4, undef); [ $txt, $rslt ];
buubot	tm604: ["this"," is a test"]
tm604	^ can anyone suggest a neater way of writing that? thought undef for the 3rd substr parameter would work instead of explicitly giving a length.
rindolf	eval: my $txt = "this is a test"; my $rslt = substr($txt, 4, - 4, q{}); [ $txt, $rslt ];
buubot	rindolf: ["thistest"," is a "]
tm604	Just surprised that omitting the length for substr isn't the same as passing undef.
anno	tm604: sometimes perl makes a difference between "not specified" and undef
ishi	tm604: wouldn't regexpr be shorted? I'm not sure what passes as 'neat' in perl :)
ishi	shorter, even...
rindolf	eval: @s = ("Long string this is a test" =~ m{\A(.{0,6})(.*?)\z}ms); [@s]
buubot	rindolf: ["Long s","tring this is a test"]
rindolf	tm604: will that work?
tm604	rindolf: thanks, that may be a better option.
rindolf	tm604: nice. :-)
Khisanth	that would definitely not be "better" ...
ishi	it's slower ;)
tm604	hmm, since I'm passing this through SOAP::Lite through a vpn on the other side of the world maybe three times a day, I think I'll have to rewrite this part in highly-efficient x64 assembler with fallback to GPU if available.
sacx	nah you need an FPGA

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Mission critical fast

Surviving without "a"'s

anno	may be neat, but hard to follow
anno	not fore real code
Botje	qubit: cute.
Botje	*anno
Su-Shee	how did you get.. ah. ;)
Su-Shee	Botje: clean your a so you don't slide to the q ;)
Botje	Su-Shee: switch from qwerty to azerty :p
Su-Shee	:)
Botje	ant i'm distracted
* Su-Shee	steals Botje's a while he's distracted anyway...
Botje	give th.t b.ck!!
Su-Shee	lAlAlAlaaaaah! :)
Botje	how will i cope without .n . key!
DrForr	"h".chr(ord('b')-1)."t"...
anno	4in't th4t good enough
Su-Shee	hehe ;)
Su-Shee	take anno's. ;)
mst	time for 4n 4cme module!
Su-Shee	god what have I done.. ;)
DrForr	lipogrammatical perl.
Su-Shee	is that the opposite of lowfat c?
DrForr	(lipograms are works with one letter not used...)
Su-Shee	ah. of course. it's leipogramm in german..
anno	hmm... lipos - fat, lipein - lack
anno	ah, leipein

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	Surviving without the letter "a".

What would your nickname imply

fedoragirl	wait, people use binary packages in freebsd?
asarch	fedoragirl, pkg_add -rv <package_name>
fedoragirl	I thought everyone compiled from source manually or from ports
fedoragirl	:(
asarch	No, not any more
fedoragirl	I knew it was possible
fedoragirl	I just didn't realize anyone would actually do that
fedoragirl	I thought it was a gimmick
EdwardIII	those wacky devil worshipers over at freebsd
fedoragirl	it's funny because my roomate is into demonology
fedoragirl	and she actually uses fedora
fedoragirl	while I, for the most part, use freebsd or debian
EdwardIII	yet your nickname would imply otherwise
fedoragirl	my nickname implies a lot of things
EdwardIII	bsdgirl would just attract far too much attention
Su-Shee	EdwardIII: thanking you for pointing out the obvious. I think, noone would have noticed otherwise.
EdwardIII	come to mention it maybe i'll take that nickname arf arf
fedoragirl	bsdgirl is actually taken
fedoragirl	and I really should find a new one
MorgyN	hats <3
rindolf	-NickServ- debiangirl is not registered.
Su-Shee	man, lucky for us women, there more distributions out there than women in computing. we can ALL have our own nick!
mst	Su-Shee++ # roflmao
rindolf	Su-Shee: heh.
Su-Shee	yggdrasilgirl, slackgirl, fromscratchgirl .. imagine the possibilities.
EdwardIII	slackboy sounds pretty sexy

Channel	#perl
Network	Freenode
Tagline	What would your nickname imply

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