Freenode #perl Conversations - (Fortunes Cookies) Shlomi Fish’s Collection

About

Collection of conversations from Freenode’s IRC Network #perl channel and other related quotes.

Table of Contents

The Fortunes Themselves

Documentation for BL

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rindolfbuu: do you have a working manual of BL?
rindolfs/working/up-to-date/
buuIt's kind of sort of up to date
perlygatekeeperhe means NO
buuI've got some docs!
rindolfbuu: do you have a functional spec? An architecture document? An interface whitepaper? A developer's guide? A user manual? A "The BL-Book" and "BL - The Program"?
buurindolf: no, no, no no and no
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineDiscussing the merits of documenting one's pet languages on #perl

Did anybody see my newline at Freenode's #perl channel.

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rindolfsleeper: why are people obsessed with one-liners?
rindolfIt takes 3 lines - OMG what a disaster!
Botjerindolf: newline prices went up again
rindolfBotje: I buy my newlines in the black market
dabreegsterBotje: again? drat.
* Botjereports rindolf to the newline police
dabreegsterBotje: I know about an... (underground) operation going on to pirate newlines.
rindolfBotje: I bribed a few cops in the newline police, but nice try.
dabreegsterBotje: Some crazy guys are trying to free newlines from patents! They want to rid the market!
* cursorgets called up to serve in the newline jury
rindolfI think we need to start a campaign to lift all restrictions off newlines.
dabreegsterrindolf: La Resistance lives on!\n
BotjeI already stockpiled millions of newlines
dabreegsterBotje: We can have the one-liners destroyed by sundown
dabreegsterNot destroyed, but... TURNED INTO TWO-LINERS! Mwuhahaha!
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineThe Cost of Newlines

Verbing the verb on Freenode's #perl

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* buuStevie[FP] with a plunger.
* Stevie[FP]looks for the verb in that sentence
silii think you're missing a verb
Stevie[FP]I think he's missing a brain.
siliunless Stevie[FP] is a verb i don't know
siliStevie[FP]: v. see Stevie[FP]
Stevie[FP]I am not a verb!
siliyou've been verbatized
* rindolfStevie[FP]'s Chris62vw
Stevie[FP]verbalized?
rindolfStevie[FP]: verbalized is a different thing.
rindolfStevie[FP]: it comes from "verbal".
Stevie[FP]Verbified.
Stevie[FP]Verbiated.
rindolfstefan: verbificated.
Botjeverbed.
Stevie[FP]Verberated.
rindolfStevie[FP]: verberation is overrated.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineVerbing the Verb

Human XML

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BarnacleBobi hate xml.....
mcrawfor<response to="BarnacleBob">indeed</response>
rindolfmcrawfor: :-)
rindolfmcrawfor++ # Nice joke
Botjeehm. ouch.
Botjerindolf: no!
Botje<postincrement comment="Nice joke">mcrawfor</postincrement>
rindolfBotje: LOL.
rindolf<postincrement comment="As you wish">Botje</postincrement>
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineHuman XML

/me (or I, you or we) is finding it amusing on Freenode's #perl.

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* __youfart
* __yousay "oops"
rindolf__you: heh
* __youkick rindolf
__you(rindolf, you're now being kicked by 435 people)
squeeks__you need to go outside.
kspath__you: Who owns you?
* __yougo outside
* __youare pwned by dazjorz
* __youis now known as we
* weare having a useless off-topic conversation right now
rindolfwe: hahah
* weis now known as __you
* __youdecide this channel is now useless and decide to leave
* simcop2387is now known as we
* weare not amused
* __youand I are together simcop2387
* squeeksis now known as _I_
* _I_need to tell __you something
* __youlisten
* simcop2387is now known as we
* weneed help
* _I_think we are getting a bit sick of the shenanigans
rindolfI'm so making a fortune out of it.
* wewant to be on bash.org
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
Tagline/me (or I, you or we) is finding it amusing

Multi-linguality

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spyro_boyOh! I fixed it :D
spyro_boyYay :D
rindolfspyro_boy: congrats!
spyro_boyThanks for your help, everyone. :)
rindolfspyro_boy: now you should translate this script to O'Caml, Haskell, Perl 6.
spyro_boyrindolf, huh?
rindolfspyro_boy: Smalltalk, C, C++, Visual Basic...
spyro_boyrindolf, translate to what?
rindolfspyro_boy: to all these programming languages.
spyro_boyhaha
spyro_boyrindolf, yeah.
rindolfBecause a script in perl is Not Enough<tm>.
rindolfspyro_boy: but see the Great Computer Language Shootout.
spyro_boyrindolf, I tried learning C,C++, and Java, but I couldn't catch on.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineMulit-linguality

Chuck Norris and Perl 6

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rindolfwankit
buubotPerl 6, unlike most people, is able to breathe in the vacuum of space. In fact, anything else would damage its respiratory system. Because of this, whenever it's visiting Earth, it wears a respirator, which resembles a kickass beard.
rindolfHeh heh.
rindolfAre all of buubot's wankit factoids about Perl 6?
rindolfHe should have some about Chuck Norris, too.
merlynfictional factoids about a partially designed, partially implemented, partially wanted language. :)
rindolfmerlyn: yeah.
merlynHeh - those are all Chuck Norris quotes with s/Chuck/P6/
dabreegsterrindolf: It's written in Chuck Norris, right
merlynChuck Norris writes code in Perl 6. Before Larry's done. And it works.
rindolfmerlyn: Chuck Norris wrote Perl 6 in a day but then destroyed all evidence with his bare hands, so no one will know his secrets.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineChuck Norris and Perl 6

Is a Life Ready for Prime Time?

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rindolfLeoNerd: I need to get a life.
LeoNerdThey can be quite useful, but they do have a crazy amount of dependencies..
LeoNerdAnd sometimes they can be a bit unstable - I think they're still beta-testing
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineIs a Life Ready for Prime Time

#perl for Elisabeth

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simcop2387Daveman: i use a ZED PEE EM to power my computer, its the ultimate YOU PEE ES
* Davemanthrows an Elisabeth at Simcop
rindolfMe catches the Elisabeth in mid-air.
SubStackwith an s, excellent choice
Daveman:o
DavemanInterception!
rindolfDaveman: when my friend and I played Frisbee, we had an intra-tree move.
* SubStackpirates Elisabeth and seeds a torrent
rindolfWhich was unintended.
rindolfElisabeth: are you here?
DavemanHAHAHAHHA
DavemanSubstack++
* SubStackwins at life.
rindolfAn Elisabeth for all! And all for an Elisabeth.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
Tagline#perl for Elisabeth

Books for Learning Perl

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Alexi5what is a good book for getting up to speed with perl?
merlynlearning perl!
merlynintermediate perl!
nachos_the camel is the _only book_
nachos_:-P
* merlynbats nachos silly
nachos_:-(
rindolfAlexi5: there's also Beginning Perl, which is available online.
* f00li5hsaw that coming
rindolfYou should learn Perl from "Learning Perl in 24 minutes Unleashed!"
f00li5hrindolf: ``Learning perl in 24 minutes Unleashed, in a nutshell for dummies'' is the one i have
rindolff00li5h: that's even better.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineBooks for Learning Perl

Discussing Vintage Hypertext on Freenode's #perl

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rindolfAre you using Firefox?
Imaginativeoneyeah...
rindolfInteresting...
rindolfDon't know.
[x86]use a real browser... you know... like IE!
* [x86]runs
infiIE 3 > *
rindolfIE 2 > *
infigopher!
infifirefox can actually do gopher URLs
rindolfGNU info!
infifeh.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineVintage Hypertext

Free as in what?

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rindolfofer0: what's up?
ofer0rindolf, nothing much. what's with you?
rindolfofer0: I restored my fonts to my nouveau-enabled X server.
jagermanWhat is nouveau?
ofer0jagerman, "new" in french ?
jagermanYes, I know it's a word, but what is the nouveau rindolf is talking about?
ofer0I have no idea. rindolf ?
rindolfjagerman, ofer0: it's the free-as-in-speech Nvidia drivers.
dmqjagerman++ (Yes i know its a word).
pkruminsfree as in freedom
naineffree as in richard stallman?
ofer0free as in free Microsoft Windows Vista CDs
naineflol
pkruminsvista--
ofer0"What do you mean? Windows XP isn't free?" -- My neighbour.
Ikarusofer0: sounds familiar
ofer0(when telling him that I can't format his hard-drive and re-install XP because he doesn't own a license)
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineFree as in what?

The Only Programming Language

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rindolfThis reminds me of a fun discussion I had with my co-worker.
rindolfHe had a Firefox window open with an ActiveState page and I read "Perl, PHP, Python, Tcl, XSLT".
rindolfSo he said: "Heresy! C is the only language."
rindolfSo I thought for a moment and said "Intercal is the only language."
nanonymelol
rindolfAnd then "Real men write in Intercal."
rindolf"COME FROM" anyone?
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineThe Only Programming Language

Misleading Textbooks about Perl

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rindolfmortal5: you need to print the header.
rindolfmortal5: print header()
mortal5rindolf, ...I absolutely love it when my textbook leads me wrong..
rindolfmortal5: what is your textbook?
mortal5"web wizards guide to perl and cgi"
mortal5lol
mortal5only the finest for the students at my university
buuHahaha
buuThat's awesome.
cfeddeIs this what we're teacing these days? Oh my.
somianBlows the mind, doesn't it cfedde!
cfeddesomian: it does.
cfeddeI suppose that I'm commenting out of context. but why the mix and match.
f3ewWhat mind?
cfeddeyours, with this .48
* somiansends in CSI las vegas to clean up
rindolfmortal5: what is your university?
mortal5rindolf, I'm too ashamed to tell :p
rindolfmortal5: heh.
rindolfmortal5: is it bad?
mortal5rindolf, no not really, we have a fairly well known cs dept
somianJust so long as it isn't SUNY@BUFFALO
mortal5it's just the teacher i'm using, she's a total flake
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineMisleading Textbooks about Perl

Perl, dongs and everything between on Freenode's #perl

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* CPANrating: Net-DNS-Check rated 4 stars by Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
rindolfOooh! avar has rated a module.
somian^{}avar! WHAT ARE YOU DOING rating CPAN modules!?! Do you really think you are QUALIFIED to be doing that!?! ;-P
* avardongs somian^{}
* somian^{}laughs
avarsomian^{}: I'M A PROFESSIONAL PERL PROGRAMMER
avarI know PERL
somian^{}But can u mAke teh weB with teh PERL!?
Earle_Martinavar: I know DONGS
avarEarle_Martin: SHOW ME
avarEarle_Martin: Don't you mean DONG foo?
* somian^{}has a silly grin on his face as he decends the stairs to make some fresh coffee
avarsomian^{}: I maek teh web really well with PERL
Earle_Martin/DCC MATRIX avar
avarEarle_Martin: IT'S SO LARGE AND HARD!
Earle_Martinavar: You think that's milk you're drinking?
f3ewheh]
avarI was wondering why it was so delcicious
avar"I can't belive it's not jizz"
f3ewTake the red pill
rfordinal_blue!
Earle_MartinI know PERL: Programmer's Elite Robotic Language
* avargoes back to work
Shadow42I wonder what would happen if Neo was colorblind and took the wrong pill.
Earle_Martin10 DO ROBOT DANCE
Earle_Martin20 GOTO 10
avarwhich doesn't involving discussing dongs in great detail, unfortunately
Earle_Martinavar: the real world sucks
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglinePerl and Dongs on Freenode's #perl

N-uple negative on Freenode's #perl

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polakmauke: so how does that "translate" into eng
merlyn"eng"?
maukeI spe eng goo
rindolfmauke: I spe eng wel
rindolfI spe goo eng
stsjust a short question. besides personal preference is there any difference if you use if(! or unless(?
rindolfsts: no.
rindolfsts: they do the same thing.
Botjests: pfft. Real Men(tm) use unless(!...)
rindolfBotje: heh.
stslol unless(! makes sense. thanks Botje, i'll rather use this one. =D
LeoNerdFor me it's a readability thing - I express what seems more likely
rindolfBotje: File::HomeDir used to have a triple or quadruple negative in one of its test files.
Botjeunless(! $str !~ /(?!foo)/)
rindolfBotje: heh
merlynwhoa
merlynunless (!) makes no sense to me at all
Botjeof course not.
stsBotje: wow!
Botjeit's still cool to confuse people with :]
LeoNerdHeh.. Should just use !!! in there anywa y:)
merlynit's 7 characters too many
xandsome people don't understand double negatives
merlynI don't want no complaints!
Botjexand: you mean don't not understnad?
LeoNerdWe don't know nobody who don't want no double-negatives
stsBotje: what does (?!foo) do?
nanonymelol
xandBotje: don't not misunderstand
maukeBotje: that always executes the block
merlynthere's an argument that can be successfully made that "I don't want no complaints" doesn't necessarily work logically
Botjexand: oh, I don't not think I didn't not misunderstand you.
Botjemauke: I know. it just looks cool.
maukeand you want !($str !~ /.../)
xanddon't you?#
merlynso it might actually mean what people think they're meaning
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineN-uple negative on Freenode's #perl

My operating system is better than yours on Freenode's #perl

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YaakovLINUX < WINDOWS XP
rindolfYaakov: Linux ">" x Inf Windows XP
rindolfYaakov: DOS > Linux
rindolfYaakov: CTSS > Linux
rindolfYaakov: TOPS-10 > Linux
rindolfMultics > Linux
rindolfMultics > *
rindolfI think I'll stop.
SupaplexI think I'll /clear
KobazCP/M > *
rindolfKobaz: heh!
rindolfKobaz++
KobazHeh.
KobazCP/M was teh sexy.
KobazHow much more of an OS do you really need?
KobazI still have my Apple II sitting in the corner.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineMy Operating System is Better than Yours

Freenode's #perl on the many types of Wheels.

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rindolfMahmoud: what's up?
Mahmoudrindolf, writing a CMS from scratch with perl.. really cool, making my own template engine
rindolfMahmoud: why???
rindolfMahmoud: use TT2.
rindolfOr whatever.
Mahmoudrindolf, i dislike other CMS engines.. they are bloated and i don't trust them
rindolfMahmoud: TT2 is pure perl.
* Mahmoudlooks for TT2
rindolfMahmoud: a CMS doesn't stay simple forever.
rindolfMahmoud: and a CMS != Templating system.
Mahmoudrindolf, the template engine is quite simple, it's similar to how SimpleMachines forum does its templates
Mahmoudrindolf, just an external file with print 'foo'; commands
amnesiacMahmoud, TT2 is very powerful
amnesiacMahmoud, there are more templating systems, why not use any ofo the existing ones?
rindolfMahmoud: please don't re-invent square wheels.
Mahmoudheh..
NOTeviloval!
* amnesiaclikes hexagonal wheels
NOTevilvery small octagon wheels aren't too bad.
rindolfamnesiac: triangular wheels are the best!
Shainei like star shaped wheels :/
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineOn the Many Types of Wheels

The Pyramid of Code Golf on Freenode's #perl

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ferretLeoNerd: That was one of the first blobs of Java I wrote, it's allowed to be even more verbose and convoluted than Java normally is. ;P
rindolfferret: link?
ferret/las Cat.java
rindolfferret: an implementation of the UNIX "cat" program in Java??
ferretActually, specifically the GNU cat program, and only a subset thereof.
rindolfferret: oh.
rindolfferret: how many lines did it take?
* f00li5hheads off to #codegolf and tries to convince them to allow java submissions
ferretrindolf: It's mostly argument parser.
rindolfferret: I once implemented a parser for a subset of the Bourne Shell args, in really hideous ANSI C.
rindolff00li5h: good luck.
rindolff00li5h: Java Golf...
f00li5hyeah, for sure!
rindolfJava Golf would be longer than a non-Golfed Perl program.
f00li5hrindolf: this is true
rindolff00li5h: COBOL Golf!
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineThe Pyramid of Code Golf

Scary Perl Expertise on Freenode's #perl

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pasteling"struggling intern" at 129.162.1.31 pasted "Here it is.." (220 lines, 5.7K) at http://sial.org/pbot/25279
strugglinginternwoohoo
strugglinginternthere it goes...
rindolfstrugglingintern: oh my god!
rindolfstrugglingintern: this code looks really bad.
strugglinginternheh...
rindolfstrugglingintern: if ($records eq 0 ) - don't you want ($records == 0)?
rindolfstrugglingintern: do you have unit tests?
rindolfstrugglingintern: and you should factor it better.
rindolfstrugglingintern: and possibly use Template Toolkit or something.
rindolfstrugglingintern: and you may have some HTML-injection (or XSS) problems.
Ani-_rindolf: and probably SQL injection problems.
rindolfAni-_: indeed!
strugglingintern:-/
Ani-_strugglingintern: really, ask them to review that code when they get back.
strugglinginternalright
strugglinginternI appreciate it anyway
rindolfstrugglingintern: how long have you been programming perl?
strugglinginternhah, about 3 months
strugglinginternThis isn't all my code ;)
strugglinginternI'll look into it
strugglinginternThanks guys (and gals).
rindolfstrugglingintern: you're welcome.
strugglinginternnot my choice ;)
strugglinginternit's my 3rd week here :)
rindolfAmazing how much more experienced programmers can tell a code is bad from a quick glance.
rindolfIt's a bit scary.
Ani-_nothing amazing about it. It's called skill. :)
The_SByeh even I can tell it by a look
ologyIt's not scary or amazing at all.
ologyIt is called experience!
Ani-_rindolf: what do you find scary?
Ani-_rindolf: that experienced programmers can tell it? Or the code itself?
Ani-_I would disagree on the first one but agree on the later! :)
rindolfAni-_: no, that I'm so experienced.
rindolfAni-_: I hope I don't sound out as a snob.
ologynarcissism is fun
rindolfI should get a life.
rindolfGet a girlfriend, go to movies.
rindolfInstead all I do is write Perl.
rindolfAnd chat about writing Perl.
Ikarusa life, tried that, didn't mix with me
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineScary Perl Expertise

(Human) Language Fun on Freenode's #perl

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rindolfLet me wikipedia it.
f00li5hso now wikipedia is a verb?
rindolff00li5h: it's gonna enter the OED.
rindolff00li5h: in English every verb can be nounified and every noun can be verbed.
rindolff00li5h: google is now a verb too.
f00li5hrindolf: q{ just one second and i'll "computer" it up for you"}
rindolff00li5h: LOL.
rindolff00li5h++
* rindolff00li5hes jql
rindolfI'm rindolfed
* f00li5hfinds it odd that irssi hilighted half of that word
rindolff00li5h: it's much harder to do it in Hebrew.
jqlcomputer is from the verb compute already
rindolfjql: there's computerise though.
f00li5hjql: but to computer something is different than computing it
f00li5hCOMPUTIFY!
rindolfjql: I once thought that the study of Objectivity is Objectivism.
f00li5h"configurated"
jqlyou shouldn't noun up a verb that's been nouned already
rindolfAnd the study of Objectivism is Objectivistalism.
Caelumheh
rindolfAnd that study of that is Objectvisitalistalism.
rindolfAnd to infinity it's Objectivist-elementalism!
f00li5heval: object .((ism)x100)
buubotf00li5h: objectismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismism ismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismism ismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismi
rindolfWith apologies to the 4 people who ever spoke Latin correctly.
jqlI can't help but read that as smi smi smi
Caelumme too
rindolfjql: reminds me of Peter Pan.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
Tagline(Human) Language Fun on Freenode's #perl

How many clicks must a one man do, before he selects what he wants on Freenode's #perl.

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dkrI use nedit, the only app with a quadruple-click feature
naquadwtf is quadruple-click??? %-/
dkrdouble-click selects a word, triple-click selects a line, quadruple-click select the whole document. heh :)
Patternerquintuple-click selects the whole harddisk
rindolfhexuple-click selects the entire Intranet.
rindolfAnd septapable-click selects the entire Internet
PatternerHow many for the multiverse?
naquadpeople, who uses what editor?
arwoctaple click selects the known universe and nonaple the rest too.
rindolfarw: how long does it takes these clicks to run?
rindolfI think it's super-exponential complexity.
arwrindolf: no matter, the universe is finite :)
arwrindolf: only problem is, the information about your clicking will never reach the entire universe as it expands ;)
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineHow many clicks must a one man do, before he selects what he wants?

The meaning of "I" on Freenode's #perl.

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* reflexivehuzzahs. His Perl books just arrived.
apeironreflexive, Which?
reflexiveapeiron: IP and PBP. A couple others are still in transit.
apeironreflexive, Nice. :)
reflexive:)
rindolfreflexive: what is IP?
reflexiveIntermediate Perl.
rindolfreflexive: oh, OK.
rindolfIntellectual Perl.
rindolfInternet Perl.
kojiroInvasive Perl
kspathIdiot Perl
rindolfInteractive Perl.
rindolfI, Perl.
kojiroImplementing Pies
kojirommm, pie
rindolfImprobably Perl
kspathIgnoble Perl
kojiroProbably Inverted
rindolfkojiro: :-)
kspathImproper Perl
reflexiveInsidious Perl?
mstALL PERL IS IMPROPER
kojiroAPI?
rindolfIn Soviet Russia all improper is Perl.
rindolfAPII.
qrckimpudent perl
kojirono, you never count words like "is"
kspathIncoherent Perl
kojiroALL PERL IS INCOHERENT
reflexiveSo true.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineThe Meaning of "I".

Got the Slashdot? on Freenode's #perl.

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dkrwhich is that ACME:: filter that obfusctaes all your source into whitespace? :)
preactionAcme::Bleach
rindolfdkr: as preaction said it is Acme::Bleach.
dkrmoderation -1 Redundant
* dkrsmirks
nwsget out you slashdotter
nwsjk
dkrI got moderated overrated yesterday. I felt so loved
dkrGumbyGumby: how often do you post to /.?
GumbyGumbydkr: do it to system() a ssh command. Is doing that often.
rindolfGumbyBRAIN: how often do you post dkr to Slashdot?
GumbyBRAINdo it to list.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineGot the Slashdot?

What's in a variable-name? on Freenode's #perl.

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WebDragony'all should spell it in uppercase it being an acronym and all
reactionYes, but we're *lazy*!
* WebDragon*so* noticed ;)
dkrWebDragon: people that use CamelCase have no right to criticize about capitalization. :)
WebDragondkr: I hate underscores
* dkrcontemplates a source code filter that does lets you use spaces in var names by switch them to underscores at compile time
preactionblack magic
mstdkr: source filters are evil.
mstdkr: in a bad way.
mstdkr: hacking the compiler is much more fun, and evil in a useful way :)
mstWebDragon: recommended perl style is $var_name
mstWebDragon: it's also more readable than $varName or $VarName
mstWebDragon: I'd recommend trying it for at least a month
mstWebDragon: also note that it'll make life easier because you'll be consistent with the rest of perl code
WebDragonmst: I was thinking more along the lines of filenames and irc nicknames than perl variables
mstWebDragon: ah. fair enough :)
* WebDragondoesn't use camelcase for perlvars
mstWebDragon: then I shall cease complaining :)
avar${"Insert a descriptive essay about the variable here"}
WebDragonrofl
rindolfavar: that won't work with 'use strict 'refs''
WebDragonavar: I've seen things like that in RL and had recurring nightmares about them when I saw similar and sometimes worse things on thedailywtf.com
mstrindolf: ${main::}{"Insert a descriptive essay about the variable here"} would :)
mstrindolf: or you could just use %_ :)
dkrmy boss still occasionally uses vars like $x. still trying to beat that behavior out of him
* WebDragononly uses x|y|z for cartesian coordinate math
WebDragonwhich, since I hardly ever do any of that, means the obvious
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineWhat's in a variable name?

Watched the fountain on Freenode's #perlcafe

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mofinowatched the Fountain
mofinopretty cool'
q[ender]yep
siliwhat?
siliyou think The Fountain was cool?
siliit was pretty artsy.
siliI don't understand the necessity of repeating that same scene 50k times, though.
mofinothen you didn't get the movie
rindolfsili: if you repeat a scene 50k times, then the movie will have less entropy and will compress better.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineWatched the fountain on Freenode's #perlcafe

Commiting yourself to a programming language on Freenode's #perl.

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convivialhigh-rez, but I don't know enough to help you because I am a newbie to perl programming and although I am in deep luv with perl and planning on marrying perl, I still have a lot to learn.
rindolfconvivial: you can only marry Perl if polygamy is legal where you live.
rindolfconvivial: because Perl and I are already married. :-D
convivialwhy is that? i'm single :)
rindolfconvivial: but Perl isn't.
convivialoh crap !
convivialall the good languages are already married :(
rindolfconvivial: COBOL is still single.
rindolfconvivial: but I heard she's a total bitch.
convivialewwwwwwwwwwww, so is JCL and no one is knocking down either of their doors
convivialrindolf, janet reno is single!
rindolfconvivial: what kind of programming language is "Janet Reno"?
convivial:)
convivialshe is a person
rindolfconvivial: I'm not interested in people, I'm only interested in programming languages.
shaldannonrindolf: you should try Ada
rindolfshaldannon: Ada 95?
shaldannonyeah
shaldannonthe syntax of Pascal, the power of Basic and the friendliness of Java
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineCommiting yourself to a programming language on Freenode's #perl.

Making use of Encyclopedias at FreeNode's #perl

Display

* shaldannonbeats iank over the head with an encyclopedia
rindolfshaldannon: all volumes of an encyclopedia?
dwurindolf: ha
shaldannonrindolf: every last one of 'em
rindolfshaldannon: or perhaps a printout of the Wikipedia?
iankrindolf: the whole bookcase
rindolfshaldannon: which Encyclopedia?
iankrindolf: naw, just get the DVD :)
shaldannonrindolf: I couldn't lift that
shaldannonrindolf: Britanica
iankYou could lift the DVD!
dwushaldannon: Start. Working. Out.
shaldannondwu: oh?
dwushaldannon: Dude, being able to lift the Britannica is hot.
* iank-> the internet
shaldannon:-}
dwuSeriously.
dwu"I can hold the accepted knowledge of a percentage of the human race in my arms!" "Oh, god, that is so sexy."
shaldannonhahahaha
dwuSeriously. Smart is hot. Smart and funny... well.
* shaldannonis hillarious ;)
dwuUhm. kay.
rindolfIf you start reading the wikipedia lexicographically, will you ever finish at the rate articles are added there?
tarrybonerindolf: yes (citation needed)
dwuha
shaldannonlol @ tarrybone
dwutarrybone++
rindolfThis reminds me of James Bond 1, where the girl there read an encyclopedia, instead of going to school.
yrlnryDoes anyone near Philadelphia want to come to my house and take away my 1920 Britannica?
shaldannonrindolf: hey...when I was in elementary school, I used to read the World Book encyclopedia instead of doing my homework
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineOne Encylcopedia Per Child - all volumes of it

Production WTF Code on #perl

Display

dwaveanyone envy me? i'm refactoring production code that uses the fact that "" is defined, as a hash key.
dwaveif (ref $ref->{""} ne "ARRAY") {
dwave$ref->{""} = [$ref->{""},$_];
dwave} else {
dwave$ref->{""} = [@{$ref->{""}},$_];
dwave}
dwave:(
iankhey, that looks like fun.
integralHas the author been lynched yet?
* integralwould have used "\0" :-P
dwavethe best of it all, is that it's an XML parser
mauke$ref->{""} = [ref $ref->{""} eq "ARRAY" ? @{$ref->{""}} : $ref->{""}, $_]; # fixed
rindolfdwave: does this XML parser makes use of an existing XML parser from CPAN?
rindolfdwave: or does it do everything from scratch?
dwaverindolf: everything from scratch :)
rindolfdwave: nice!
dwavei'm trying to get rid of it
rindolfdwave: re-inventing square wheels.
dwavethere's a home made unicode lib too
dwave!
rindolfdwave: ouch!
shaldannonnice
iankBrilliant!
shaldannondwave: I suggest a dailywtf.com submission
rindolfdwave: yeah, I second shaldannon
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineProduction WTF Code on #perl

Versions of Software on FreeNode's #perl

Display

bp31416rindolf: I command you both, to uninstall it, and install SuSE10.2 =P
jagerman"versions" are so annoying.
jagerman"I use Linux 10.2!"
iankjagerman: I had a friend who insisted the answer to the question "What version of the kernel are you running?" was "gnome".
jagermaneval: $POE::Kernel::VERSION
buubotjagerman: 1.2173
jagerman\o/
Terminusheh, a friend of mine only remembers me running ximian a few years ago and he keeps on asking me, "why don't you run ximian again?" where ximian == OS for him.
bp31416jagerman: could be worse lingo-wise, in tech-support many folks asking on Q about 'THEIR internet' isn't working, or 'does it have internet installed?', I .....like.... sir.... when did you manage to buy the internet in whole? ....... ahhhh... the internet is not a socket you plug in any of the ports sir
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineVersions of Software

The Holy Extreme Programming in Freenode's #perl

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rindolf"We're doing XP [= Extreme Programming] here, so you need to know Ruby, you need to know Design Patterns and you need to know Refactoring."
rindolfXP may have become a religion.
ew73I Refactored yesterday!
rindolfew73: using which refactoring pattern?
ew73Leviticus 13:22
Somniwell you will keep refactoring until you get it right!
* rindolfextracts the ew73 method.
rindolfew73: this is one of my favourite refactoring patterns.
* ew73idly looks up said passage, just to see if it's any good.
integralWhat do you have to know to claim you know refactoring?
integralHow to click buttons in the right Eclipse menu?
rindolfintegral: the code is in Ruby.
integralRuby is too cool to be in Eclipse?
ew73integral: One time, I moved all this stuff to another subroutine!
ew73Lev. 13:22. And if it spread, he shall judge him to have the leprosy:
rindolfintegral: no, but you cannot refactor Ruby code automatically using Eclipse.
integralOne time I wrote all this code, but when I was about to go home I found I'd left my brain at home! LOLZ
integralew73: good butter advert in that
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineExtreme Programming as a Religion

To be here or not to be here on Freenode's #perl

Display

rindolfHi all.
rindolfLeoNerd: here?
LeoNerdrindolf: Maybe
rindolfLeoNerd: "be here or be not here - there is no maybe"
LeoNerd:)
rindolfLeoNerd: a.k.a the law of the exclusion of the middle.
dwuI think Yoda phrased that one best.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineTo be here or not to be here on Freenode's #perl

Monkey Business at Freenode's #perl

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perlmonkeythats just...mental
rindolfperlmonkey2: still here?
perlmonkey2rindolf: hi
rindolfperlmonkey2: hi.
perlmonkeyphew
rindolfperlmonkey2: now we have two Perl monkeys.
perlmonkey2hah
perlmonkey2good stuff
perlmonkey2You can never have too many.
PeaceNLoveTo produce good stuff like Shakespeare's works, we need an infinite number of monkeys
perlmonkeywe're starting a monkey clan
rindolfPeaceNLove: heh.
rindolfPeaceNLove: and to write like a monkey we need a million Shakespeares.
PeaceNLoveperlmonkey, reproduce and multiply, God be with you
perlmonkey2PeaceNLove: You can, of course, do anything with an infinite number of perl monkeys.
perlmonkey2PeaceNLove: Actually a million monkeys on a million typewriters would most probably have not created Hamlet if they started at the beginning of the Universe.
PeaceNLoveperlmonkey2, that's fine, the Universe has not ended yet, they have time
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineMonkey Business at Freenode's #perl

Who you're gonna call on Freenode's #perl

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rindolfHmmm... xchat-perl is gone.
f00li5hOH NOES! ## what's that for then?
rindolfWho you're gonna call? Bug-busters!!
Khisanthrindolf: never existed, unless you are using an rpm based system
rindolfKhisanth: I am.
f00li5hI AINT AFRAID OF NO BUG!
rindolff00li5h: heh.
f00li5hwhen there's something wierd and in your code base, who you gonna call?
railbaitf00li5h: The police?
f00li5hrailbait: BUG BUSTERS!
f00li5hwe test it with science then blow it up
f00li5h... or is that someone else
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineWho you're gonna call?

Tribute to the Prisoner on Freenode's #perl

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HazardHow do I look up @- in the perldocs?
rindolfHazard: perldoc perlvar
Hazardrindolf: Thanks.
Davemanperldoc rindolf
HazardI don't know what I'd do without IRC.
rindolfDaveman: I am not a pragma! I'm a free man!
HazardI couldn't even google that.
rindolfuse Daveman (qw(silliness));
* jetscreamersends rindolf back to the village
rindolfjetscreamer: is it a Perlisoner village where everyone becomes a pragma?
jetscreamerand lots of perlBalloons
Davemangumbybrain, how do i make teh web wit shlomi!?
rindolfjetscreamer: Perloons.
rindolfjetscreamer: Perlunatics.
apeironPerlarks.
Davemanperlaugh
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineTribute to the Prisoner

The Messiah of Perl on Freenode's #perl

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ubajasTechnically, my first language was Turbo Pascal, but I started over with Perl 10 years later (not having programmed in the meantime). I'm obviously damaged goods.
iankubajas: heh, I read that as "I started with (perl 10) (years later)" instead of "I started with perl (10 years later)" :)
rindolfPerl 10!
rindolfPerl for the Fourth Millenium.
jagermanI thought Perl 6 was supposed to be timeless
ubajasiank: Maybe I should have added a comma. :-]
jagermanPerl ∞
iankperl6 has existed since the beginning of time, or at least it will have existed since then once $Larry finds a time machine.
simcop2387iank: i'm sorry but larry is the prophet i am the messanger! i will be the one to take it back!
iankWHAT.
simcop2387iank: its MY TIME MACHINE!
* ianksmacks simcop2387 around
jagermaniank: So it'll be like that Star Trek episode, where they say that the development of computers are caused by time travel from the future?
jagermanExcept that they were too stupid (like most Voyager writers) to get their facts right, and thought computers started in the 70s
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineThe Messiah of Perl

One rindolf Each on Freenode's #perl

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milardovichwith strict it say me this:
milardovichGlobal symbol "$lorem" requires explicit package name at split.pl line 3.
rindolfmilardovich: use "my $lorem = "
rindolfmilardovich: my is your friend.
rindolfpun not intended.
rindolfmy is my friend.
dwuPreferably with a real value after "= " ^.^
rindolfdwu: he already has that.
milardovichthat works with my rindolf
milardovichthaks you!!!
rindolfmilardovich: you're welcome.
milardovich:)
ubajasI wish I had a rindolf too. :-\
milardovichpeople here are "nicer" than on #php :P
rindolfubajas: I'm mass-produced at Chines sweat-shops.
ubajashehe
rindolfubajas: they sell me for 30 bucks a piece.
rindolfmilardovich: I've heard some horrible stories about ##php.
milardovichperl rulz x)
rindolfmilardovich: what brings you to Perl?
simcop2387rindolf: #php apparantly
rindolfsimcop2387: heh.
rindolfsimcop2387++
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineOne rindolf Each on Freenode's #perl

Are you being verbed on Freenode's #perl

Display

rindolfcl1: what do you do at work?
cl1i write code :D
rindolfcl1: naturally.
rindolfcl1: to do what?
cl1right now at this contract, i'm working with .net, c#, asp.net and pl/sql
rindolfcl1: sounds enterprisey.
BinGOsplease don't turn enterprise into a verb.
rindolfBinGOs: enterprisey is an adjective, not a verb.
LeoNerdEnterprizationaliseation?
BinGOsokay.
cl1lol @ enterprisey
rindolfGumbyBRAIN: BinGOs me!
GumbyBRAINi tend to be good, it doesn't want me to buy an island utopia (you'll get used to bother me.
BinGOsBut it is a noun and no more.
BinGOsmmmkay.
dwuBinGOs: Actually, it's also an adjective. Even without "y".
BinGOsI HATE YOU ALL.
* dwugrin
BinGOsCRITIQUE IS DEFINITELY A FUCKING NOUN.
dwuIt's also a verb.
BinGOsNO IT ISN'T
simcop2387BinGOs: i shall critique your use of critique
BinGOsJUST BECAUSE SOME DAMNED YANKEE SCUM DECIDE IT IS, DOES NOT MAKE IT SO.
dwuIt's been used since the 18th century.
rindolfBinGOs: dwued!
BinGOsI refer you to my earlier hate.
dwuI refer you to your fail.
ickenot earlier than 18th century
dwuI really shouldn't. It's mean. But I will.
dwuBecause I'm mean.
dwuicke: Hence "since".
dwu'criticises'.
BinGOsMy fail-gun appears to firing backwards. Damn thing.
dwuYour fail gun is... failing?
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineAre you being verbed on Freenode's #perl

How much Perl do you need at Freenode's #perl

Display

shishirm1is pop3 module avaliable only in perl 5?
jernsterare you saying you use something other than 5?
ickeperl 4 didn't even have modules
jernsterheh
rindolfshishirm1: do you want to use it with Perl 4?
shishirm1oh ok sorry i am comlete nooob!! so i am just asking you guys
shishirm1nope is perl 5 a standard now?
jernsteryes
shishirm1ok great...
jernster:)
rindolfshishirm1: Perl 4 is unmaintained, unloved, deprecated, not recommended, and dead - D. E. D. - DEAD!
simcop2387-lapperl 4 is an EXPERL!
simcop2387-lapall statements that perl4 is a going concern are thus inoperative.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineHow much Perl do you need at Freenode's #perl

Conditional-to-Inheritance Refactoring on Freenode's #perl

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edecaHrm. More infernal questions, mainly because I am trying to make my perl prettier and contain less nasty if's. I have $foo and $bar which are obtained from split(/ /, 'kitten loving'). But I don't want undef if the split fails, I'd rather '' for $bar or both. What's the nicest way to do that?
Khisanth($foo, $bar) = map { $_ // "" } split / /, $str; # 5.10 version :)
edecaNoo 5.10! :)
Khisanth($foo, $bar) = map { defined $_ ? $_ : "" } split / /, $str; # probably some other shorter ways too
rindolfedeca: [bad idea] you can also try using the conditional->inheritance refactoring.
rindolf:-)
* Khisanthpours boiling coffee on rindolf
rindolfKhisanth: I hate coffee, but I guess I deserved it.
rindolfThat was a joke, of course.
Khisanthyou weren't really supposed to like having boiling anything poured on you but I guess you are into the kinkier stuff
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineConditional-to-Inheritance Refactoring on Freenode's #perl

Geek love on Freenode's #perl

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rindolfrbastic: QBasic was the sh*t!
rindolfrbastic: well, not really.
rbasticrindolf: yup, that language is responsible for me having gotten into programming to begin with.
rbastic8 yrs old and writing qbasic scripts with QBasic for Dummies by my side
rindolfrbastic: I started when I was 10.
rindolfrbastic: I know some people who started much later.
talexbLate bloomer .. didn't start till I was 15.
Zoffixheh, I started at 14... I could not have a computer before that
rindolfrbastic: but I know a girl who started programming when she was 6.
rindolfOr was it 8?
Zoffixrindolf, CAN HAS PHONE NUMBER?!
rbasticlol
rindolfZoffix: NO CAN!
Zoffix:(
rindolfZoffix: only have her MSN.
Zoffixgimmegimmegimme
talexbHeh.
Zoffix:)
rindolfZoffix: LOL.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineGeek Love

The Grand Unified Programming Language

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rbasticJuerd: eh in today's world of heavy JS on the clientside, i think it makes a little more sense to use the same lang. everywhere
Juerdrbastic: JS on the client side is because often it's the only option the universe provides.
rbasticJuerd: from a business perspective, you reduce the complexity and potential difficulties in finding new hires with the same skillset
rindolfrbastic: have you heard of RJS?
Juerdrbastic: On the server side, however, you have great freedom.
rbasticrindolf: no, what's that?
Caelumlarry wants perl6 to run on javascript :)
rindolfrbastic: "One Language; and One Sayings".
Juerdrbastic: Exactly. I would never hire a server side programmer who knows *only* Javascript, and is too stupid to learn whatever we're using on the server side.
rindolfrbastic: my translation to a sentence from the Tower of Babel myth.
rbasticJuerd: i'll agree with that also. any real programmer knows or has at least coded in half a dozen languages before
JuerdFrom a business perspective, you should avoid crap coders at all cost.
JuerdKnows *or* has coded... Hmmm...!
rindolfrbastic: though according to what most scholars believe it was not about using one language but rather thinking the same.
JuerdI hope they haven't coded in half a dozen languages without knowing them.
JuerdThat'd be scary.
zshznReality is scary, Juerd
talexbHmm, BASIC, FORTRAN, COBOL, assembler, C, more assembler, C, Pascal ... Perl!
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineThe Grand Unified Programming Language

Can I haz a fast compiler on Freenode's #perl

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rindolfrbastic: now I'm working with C++.
rindolfrbastic: I found out that my project compiles really quickly.
rindolfrbastic: under 5 or 10 minutes on a P4-2.4GHz with 1 GB of RAM.
rindolfrbastic: maybe KDE is making g++ look bad.
rbasticrindolf: yeah, i'm not a big KDE fan
rindolfrbastic: actually I'm using KDE-3.5.8 here.
rindolfrbastic: I was talking about the compilation speed of KDE apps and KDE itself.
rindolfrbastic: possibly because each file has half-a-gazillion headers.
rindolfMy C++ code is a server one, so we don't have too many deps.
rbasticyeah, isn't there a way to cache header files? ie. in their "compiled" form?
rbasticor is that something I'm remembering from some other programming language that purported to build on top of C?
rindolfrbastic: MSVC has that.
rbasticahh, nods
rindolfrbastic: no, Visual C++ has precompiled headers.
rindolfrbastic: I remember that I kept deleting them.
rbasticyeah, couldn't remember
rbasticlol
rindolfPascal compiles very quickly.
rindolfThat's one of the things I enjoyed in Delphi.
rbasticugh, the app i'm been maintaining in Java was originally a fat client/server desktop app, written in Delphi
rindolfrbastic: ah.
rbastici remember booting up the old app for the first time, and being amazed at how slow it was
rbasticeventually, i had to duplicate a feature in the Java code and i wasn't sure how it was implemented before
rindolfrbastic: you mean the Java app is faster? :S
rbasticso being as i had no Delphi experience, and the newer Delphi environments made NO sense to me at all, i just opened up the SQL Server query analyzer
rbasticrindolf: yes, but only b/c the Delphi programmer was an idiot, issuing queries over and over again needlessly
rbasticrindolf: if you could've seen the MSSQL Performance Analyzer or whatever, it was basically just.. Query1, Query2, Query3, Query1, Query2, Query3, repeat.
rbasticit was probably the worst ive ever seen in my life.. belongs on www.thedailywtf.com
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineCan I haz a fast compiler

I think too much - therefore I blog too much on Freenode's #perl

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rindolfscrottie: hi.
scrottiehi rindolf!
rindolfscrottie: are you the scrottie from use.perl.org?
scrottieyeah.
rindolfscrottie: ah, nice to meet you.
rindolfWell, chat with you on IRC at least.
* scrottiecowers from the swinging fist probably coming his way
rindolfscrottie: I'm "Shlomi%20Fish"
scrottieoh, heh, thanks
rindolfIt's a curse.
scrottiehmm. i vaguely remember interesting stuff from you but can't honestly place what.
scrottieI know I've seen you around here before too.
rindolfYeah, my use.perl.org blog is mostly technical and perl-related.
scrottieI post on use.perl.org entirely too much.
rindolfSo it may be a bit boring.
rindolfSometimes it's a bit philosophical.
rindolfscrottie: yes.
scrottieheh. and mine is offensively off-topic.
rindolfscrottie: I have other blogs.
scrottieI've posted to livejournal twice!
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineI think too much - therefore I blog too much

"How intrusive do you want your text to be?" on Freenode's #perl

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rindolfCan we add styles like <b>, <i>, etc.?
rindolfOr colours?
rindolfOr blink?
rindolfOr images?
rindolfOr flash applets?
scrottie<banner>!
alanhaggairindolf: No I think. Google's Web Application does not allow them. It is just a <textarea>.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineHow intrusive do you want your text to be?

Freenode's #pearl

Display

rindolfscrottie: you are a native English speaker right?
rindolfscrottie: do you know #linguistics ?
scrottienot familiar with #linguistics, yes, I am a native English speaker, but my spelling is atr... my spelling is terrible.
rindolfatrocious?
scrottieyeah, that
scrottieI have an xterm dedicated to dict/spell
rindolfscrottie: spelling is probably easy to fix using aspell.
rindolfscrottie: heh.
rindolfscrottie: I'm using xchat which has an red-line for spelling mistakes.
rindolfVery useful.
rindolfToo bad I'm using British spelling where it sometimes misbehaves.
rindolfaspell, I mean.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineFreenode's #pearl

"Lame even" on Freenode's #perl

Display

rindolfA lot of ise's [in Aspell's British Spelling checker] are false positivies.
rindolfpositives even.
rindolfPeople who say $minor_spelling_correction even, are lam.
rindolflame even.
rindolfI never get tired of these self-referential jokes.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineLame even

The Third #perl Reich (on Freenode #perl).

Display

scrottieThe tech side was there... but I was stuck with my fucking graphics I did in crayon. I kid you not. Crayon.
scrottieIt was a cry for help.
scrottieProgrammers will work with each other on fun projects, but graphic designers never get involved in stuff like that.
rindolfscrottie: ah.
scrottiethen there's kingdomofloathing.com... stick figures.
rindolfscrottie: there are some graphic designers who contribute to KDE, GNOME, etc.
scrottiefuck graphic artists. we should round them all up and burn them.
rindolfscrottie: heh.
scrottieokay, they can live.
rindolfscrottie: scrotitler!
scrottiethe rest get burnt though.
rindolf"He who starts by burning graphics desginers will end up burning programmers."
scrottieonly the ASP and PHP programmers... then we'll see where things are at and re-evaluate the plan.
rindolfFirst they came to the graphics designers...
Khisanththen they came for more graphics designers
rindolfscrottie: I knew some very nice PHP programmers.
rindolfAnd VB ones.
scrottieyeah, me too. real shame.
rindolfscrottie: I still know some PHP programmers.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineThe Third #perl Reich (on Freenode #perl).

The Name "Bunny"

Display

→B-rabbithas joined #perl
rindolfB-rabbit? I know a B-rat on #linguistics.
B-rabbitrindolf, cool =]
rindolfB-rabbit: ok.
B-rabbitmy full name is bunny rabbit bt w :)
B-rabbithehe
rindolfB-rabbit: ah.
rindolfB-rabbit: "bunny" is a female name.
B-rabbitlol
pippijnrindolf: correct
pippijnI know a bunny
rindolfOr a Playboy bunny.
ikrindolf: bunny is a stripper name
pippijnfriends call her bun
ikpippijn: is she a stripper?
B-rabbitrindolf, i am a male lol x sorry to disappoint u
rindolf"IRC: Where men are men, women are men, and the kids are FBI agents."
rindolfB-rabbit: ok, no problem.
ikpippijn: she should change her name
pippijnik: it doesn't hurt her
ikpippijn: right, but she's violating a fundamental law
ikpippijn: she either needs to change her name or become a stripper
rindolfik: I think the other option is better.
pippijnik: she'd probably become a stripper rather than changing her name
rindolfpippijn: LOL.
ikrindolf: yeah, but you're creepy
rindolfI think I'll make a fortune out of it.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineThe Name "Bunny"

The Anti-School nazi

Display

dazjorzHi rindolf :)
rindolfHi dazjorz
rindolfdazjorz: what's up?
rindolfdazjorz: No Tests for You?
rindolfNo *more
dazjorzNo more tests :)
rindolfdazjorz: No more tests for you!!! For three months!
rindolfdazjorz: nice!
dazjorz:D
dazjorzTwo, I think
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineThe anti-School nazi

Emulating a Newbie on Perl

Display

yrlnryHi, I heard that Perl is just HTML with some sort of macro preprocessor attached. So I thought you would be the right people to ask about whether there is a way to make the submitted value on an <input type=submit> different from the visible label on the button.
yrlnryThanks in advance.
* Rodericktars and feathers yrlnry.
yrlnryHi, Roderick! How's the kid?
Somniyou have been misinformed, sir; Perl is just a regex engine with named variables
ne2k__yrlnry: that is possibly one of the oddest questions I have ever heard
yrlnryne2k__: What's odd about "How's the kid?"
yrlnryYou need to get out more, seriously.
ne2k__yrlnry: I meant the original question
RoderickCongratulations, I hope it's going well.
yrlnryDo you know that Jewish folktale about the man who lives in a tiny hut with his wife and kids and they can't stand the crowding any more, so they go to the rabbi for advice, and the rabbit suggests that they bring the chickens, goat, and cow into the house too?
ne2k__yrlnry: not that it has anything to do with perl, but the <input> tag in HTML has both "name" and "value" attributes. the value is what gets shown in the browser typically.
yrlnryne2k__: yes, and the value is also what is submitted when someone presses the button, but I want the displayed label to be different from what it submitted, as it is say with <option ...>
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
Taglineyrlnry as a Perl newbie

Which Prefix do You Want Today?

Display

mMishhi rind
rindolfHi mMish
rindolfmMish: now you're mMish ?
rindolfmMish: are you eMish, oMish, aMish , etc?
mMishyes
rindolfmMish: ah, nice.
mMishdepends on the mood
rindolfGumbyBRAIN: how many nicks must a one IRCer have?
GumbyBRAINOh, i lie, now it's stuck on posting things to do it. You said you couldn't have one of many.
rindolfmMish: ah OK.
rindolfxMish
rindolfiMish
rindolfzMish
rindolfLike the IBM computers.
rindolfpMish
mMishppszMish <--- HUngarian
rindolfmMish: LOL.
rindolflpstrMish
dazjorzis lpstr a function?
dazjorzget_magic_quotes_gpcMish
rindolfdazjorz: no, Long Pointer to string.
dazjorzPHP++ :')
rindolfdazjorz: why?
rindolfperlbot: karma PHP
perlbotKarma for PHP: -147
LeoNerdIt takes some nerve to say "PHP++" in #perl :P
dazjorzrindolf: because they have get_magic_quotes_gpc!
dazjorzdon't we all love get_magic_quotes_gpc!
rindolfdazjorz: oh.
dazjorzit's a function
rindolfdazjorz: love, hate - what's the difference.
rindolfdazjorz: that does what?
dazjorzto get the value of magic_quotes_gpc in the config file.
rindolfdazjorz: ah.
dazjorzso they have get_magic_quotes_gpc for get_ini('magic_quotes_gpc')
rindolfdazjorz: LOL.
dazjorzplus, there's the magic_quotes_gpc to escape all input a script gets via POST, GET and COOKIE.
rindolfdazjorz: yes, sounds Evil.
rindolfJust use placeholders.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineWhich Prefix do you Want today?

Sextalk according to the cult of Perl

Display

krangHey all, what's the best way to call one perl script from another? I was thinking I'd just use 'system("script.pl");'
dazjorzkrang: yeah, that, or do "script.pl"
dazjorzkrang: depends on how seperated you want them to be
krangdazjorz: you mean just a line that has "script.pl"; written on it?
Khisanthyou need the do as well
dazjorzkrang: no, exactly this: do "script.pl";
rindolfkrang: system is usually what you want.
rindolfkrang: normally require or use are preferable to do
dazjorzrindolf: that's for modules, isn't it ?
rindolfdazjorz: yes.
dazjorzwait, I think require "script.pl" would work too
rindolfdazjorz: and doing code is not such a good idea.
dazjorzrindolf: hmm?
krangrindolf: what is doing anyway?
rindolfdazjorz: I mean "perldoc -f do"-ing code.
rindolfkrang: do()-ing
rindolfkrang: it reads the file and evaluates it.
rindolfkrang: perldoc -f do.
dazjorzrindolf: ah
dazjorzrindolf: do {}
* rindolfwould rather be doing hot models than doing code. :-)
dazjorzrindolf: yeah, do BLOCK is quite useless
dazjorzheh
rindolfdazjorz: you can do my $var = do { ... }
* dazjorzwould rather be doing GumbyBRAIN than doing code
GumbyBRAINand doing code is not be in the days of immortality!
rindolfdazjorz: or eval { ... }
rindolfdazjorz: heh.
rindolfIt's hard to do code.
dazjorzdo $model;
dazjorzeh.. sorry, do $hotmodel;
rindolf"Are you into my brother?"
rindolf"No I'm totally into Perl."
krangah ok, I see. Thanks guys!
rindolfkrang: yw.
dazjorzheh :-)
rindolfIf you want a configuration file, you should be using something like INI, YAML, etc.
rindolfXML perhaps.
rindolfSomething.
rindolfApache-like config.
dazjorzApache-like is very strong but hard to parse, right ?
dazjorzLoading and saving configuration never looks good, especially when it's XML
dazjorzthe code to load and save is ugly.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineSextalk among Perl cultists

f00li5h inviting rindolf to Australia

Display

f00li5hrindolf: are you coming out this way on tour some time?
rindolff00li5h: to .au?
f00li5hyes!
rindolff00li5h: don't think so.
f00li5hyou can pay some of my rent for a bit ^_^
rindolff00li5h: I'm out of job too.
f00li5hperfect timing!
f00li5hno commitments
* f00li5his very good at constructing circular arguments due to his skill in constructing circular arguments
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineWill rindolf come to Australia?

The Love Life of Cats

Display

Anontoday my kitty gave a birth to two kitties!
rindolfAnon: ah, nice.
Anonone of them died :(
Anonduring birth
rindolfAnon: oh. :-(
simcop2387Anon: were you expecting it to happen?
simcop2387:(
Anonsimcop2387, i was expecting this week
rindolfAnon: do you know who the father is?
simcop2387ah
Anonrindolf, some cat
simcop2387rindolf: hopefully not him
Anonrindolf, remember my kitty ran away
rindolfAnon: ah.
Anonfor a week
rindolfAnon: no I don't remember that.
Anonwell, she ran away for a week
rindolfAnon: ah.
Anonand came back
Anonand during that time she got pregnant.
rindolfAnon: ah.
freehahathey don't seem to have safe sex
rindolfAnon: she eloped.
simcop2387Anon: sounds like she had fun
Anonsimcop2387, sounds like that :)
simcop2387Anon: you should have the talk with her about birth control then (i wonder do they even make birth control for kitties)
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineThe Love Life of Cats

Black Beer

Display

* rindolfis listening to
rindolfOh crud.
rindolfI should support Kaffeine too.
Tanktalusrindolf is apparently deaf... ;-)
* rindolfis listening to Metallica - Nothing Else Matters
ubajasNOTHING ELSE MATTERS, DUDE
tkrrindolf: thats nice :)
tkrrindolf: how about guns 'n roses?
* rindolfis listening to Guns and Runs - don't cry
rindolftkr: you read my mind.
rindolftkr: I now placed some of their songs.
rindolfNow it's November Rain.
tkrrindolf: next time youll come to finland Ill buy you a beer (with no alcohol)! :)
tkrrindolf++
rindolftkr: OK.
rindolftkr: we have something called "Black Beer" in Israel.
rindolfWhich is a non-alcoholic beer.
simcop2387rindolf: THATS RACIST! IT SHOULD BE AFRICAN AMERICAN ISREALI BEER!
edencrindolf: is it any good?
rindolfsimcop2387: heh .
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineBeer, Perlers and Song

Assign Named $foo and $bar

Display

LeoNerdI feel there must be a way to do this... given func( foo => 1, bar => 2 ); how to write my ( $foo, $bar ) = .... inside the function?
LeoNerdMy current attempt is my ( $foo, $bar ) = @{{@_}}{qw( foo bar )}; which is messy as sin
ickeLeoNerd: what's the problem? readability?
LeoNerdYah
dazjorzLeoNerd: I'd change specs to be func({ foo => 1, bar => 2})
dazjorzthen my ($foo, $bar) = ($_[0]{foo}, $_[0]{bar});
tonLeonerd: If you insist on doing it on one line, that's about as good as it gets. But why not use a temporary hash ? Should be just as fast and as readable
LeoNerdHrm.. :/ Then it's only marginally nicer as my ( $foo, $bar ) = @{$_[0]}{qw( foo bar )};
LeoNerdmy %args = @_; my ( $foo, $bar ) = @args{qw( foo bar )}; ya... that works
mstLeoNerd: my ($foo, $bar) = do { my %a = @_; @a{qw(foo bar)} };
tonif you combine it with a delete you can then check if %args is empty and catch typos or unexpected arguments....
LeoNerdOooh.. a do block
vincentor use padwalker
LeoNerdOh, args won't be empty... this is a wrapper function that pulls a few named args off and sends the rest to a nested inner function
LeoNerdNow.. I want to call a function "foreach" but that breaks things... suggestions?
ickea method could be named 'foreach'
LeoNerdYa.. but this is a plain function
icketough
LeoNerdI suppose "iterate" is about as best as I'll get
ickefor_each
tonLeoNerd: forall ?
LeoNerdI'll think on it overnight maybe.. I guess it's home time now
ickeforeachandeverysingleone
tonforever, forfun, forlorn...
vincentFOREACH
ickeboo
LeoNerdone_for $all and $all for @one;
rindolfforevery?
rindolf<LeoNerd> one_for $all and $all for @one; - heh
rindolf$one for @all and @all for @one
rindolf$one for @all and @all for @$one
rindolf$one for @all and @all for $one
rindolfWorks too.
LeoNerdHrm.. it does?
LeoNerddeparse: $one for @all and @all for $one
buubotLeoNerd: Error: syntax error at (eval 107195) line 1, near "@all for "
LeoNerdYou can't use two postmod fors in a single statement
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineSyntax Fun

The func

Display

as841Hi, i am doing a print $drh->func('createdb',$database,"localhost","root",$password,'admin'); but getting this Can't call method "func" on an undefined value
as841could anyone point me in the right direction ?
Yaakovo/~ Ow we want the func / Give up the func / Ow we need the func / We gotta have that func o/~ </drforr>
rindolfWe got the func!
rindolfForget the fee func, we've got the see func!
as841wtf?
as841did i launch a movement or what ?
YaakovWhat the func?!
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineThe func

More Than One Way for a Cat to Paw

Display

* f00li5hpaws at dazjorz
dazjorzf00li5h! :)
f00li5hhow goes it?
dazjorzit goes very fine. :)
* pkruminsf00s at pawlish
* f00li5hpkrums at pawkrumins
pkruminsf00li5h, thank you sir! =^_^=
f00li5hdazjorz: I am quite well
* dazjorzli5hes at f00paw
* dazjorzrins at pawdolf... man, I could go on forever.
pkruminshaha
pkruminspawdolf
* pkruminsdazes at pawjorz
* dazjorzgumbys at .. oh well
* pkruminspaws at GumbyBRAIN
GumbyBRAINIk paws at gumbybrain.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineMore Than One Way for a Cat to Paw

Bit by bit

Display

Similianis there a smart way to read a file to a certain string bit by bit ?
Similianwhich loop to use?
rindolfSimilian: you can read it byte by byte.
rindolfSimilian: do you want to read the whole thing?
Similianno
Similiantoo big 200 MB
simcop2387-labreading bit by bit is usually not supported by most operating systems
rindolfSimilian: then do you want to read one byte at a time?
ikor one line at a time?
Similianguess a line would be better
rindolfsimcop2387-lab: it is on my rindolfOS running on Intel 1001.
rindolfWhich was a 1-bit processor.
ikheh
ikI had a half-bit processor
ikit just stored ones
danieldgik: that would be a zero-bit processor then
ikno no
danieldghalf-bit processor stores 0's or sqrt(2)'s
iksqrt(2) may as well be 1
simcop2387-labrindolf: a 1 bit processor would be a hell of a thing to work with
danieldgnot if you can't test it unless it's one
ikWe're not talking about numbers, we're talking about on and off, true and false, whatever you want to call it
iksqrt(2) is nonzero, so it's one.
rindolfdanieldg: not 1/sqrt(2)?
danieldghmm it would probably be that, yes
simcop2387-labmy proc uses sqrt[-1]!
ikmay as well
danieldgik: think quantum computers. It tests true with probability 1/sqrt(2)
ikI'm not talking about a quantum computer..
danieldgwell a 1/2 bit computer clearly can't be classical
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineBit by bit

Log Analyser in Haskell

Display

rindolfwhoppix: what's up?
whoppixrindolf, haskelling through the night.
rindolfwhoppix: ah.
whoppixrindolf, im pretty much a beginner, tho.
rindolfwhoppix: yes, I learned Haskell back at the time.
rindolfwhoppix: I tried to write a log analyser in Haskell once.
rindolfwhoppix: it segfaulted.
rindolfwhoppix: a CL-one was much better.
Caelumrindolf: haha
whoppixsadness
rindolfwhoppix: then people showed me how to write it better.
rindolfwhoppix: but it segfaulted too.
whoppixhaha
Caelumhahaha
Zoffixlol
rindolfwhoppix: I gave up on using Haskell for production.
Caelumrindolf: I've submitted your story to bash.org
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineLog Analyser in Haskell

Best Kind of Bugs

Display

rindolfperlmonkey2: I've ran into a strange problem with CMake. It's some kind of bug that disappears after running a few commands.
perlmonkey2rindolf: heh, the best kind of bugs are intermittant and only happen under load :P
rindolfperlmonkey2: it's not load.
daemonThe best kind of bugs are the ones that do not happen at all :)
rindolfdaemon: heh.
rindolfdaemon++
AltreusThe best kind of bugs are the ones that only happen to people you hate.
perlmonkey2hahahaha
AltreusThose aren't usually bugs
Altreus>:)
daemonAltreus, you mean the ones you coded to happen to that said person ;)
daemonhehe
AltreusNot being able to reproduce strange behaviour is fine too
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineBest kind of bugs

The IRC-Based UNIX Shell

Display

* Zoffix&
^QuiddityZoffix: fg
apeiron^Quiddity, no
apeironkill %1
rindolfkill -9 apeiron
apeironrindolf, EPERM
^Quidditykill: apeiron: arguments must be process or job IDs
rindolfapeiron: sudo kill -9 apeiron
^Quidditykillall -9 apeiron
rindolfpkill -9 apeiron
apeironrindolf, user rindolf is not in the sudoers file, this event will be reported
* apeironwonders what it says about him that he has that error message pretty much memorized
^Quiddityapeiron: that you don't spend enough time issuing commands correctly
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineThe IRC-Based UNIX Shell

Retardedness

Display

rindolfmst: sorry for that - that was not my intention.
mstrindolf: I know it wasn't. you aren't that retarded. but the way your comment came across was :)
rindolfmst: yes.
rindolfmst++
rindolfmst: "you aren't that retarded." - you shouldn't insult my retardedness (sp?). I worked all my life to be so retarded.
AltreusI think you can spell made-up words like 'retardedness' however you like
carpftbif you're a retard.
Botjeheh
Botjeworking hard is the exact opposite of retardedness :]
Altreushardly working
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineRetardedness

How to name a new Flickr-module

Display

jfroebetrying to come up with a replacement name for my Flickr::Simple2.. (it is based off of XML::Simple rather than XML::Parser::Lite::Tree) - Net::Flickr, Flickr::API, Flickr::Simple are already taken. Any ideas? I'm coming up blank for a name
jfroebeIt is a Perl interface to Flickr
mofinowait
rindolfjfroebe: ah, I saw your message on Chicago.pm
rindolfjfroebe: maybe WWW::Flickr
mofinoyou found others and decided you needed to make ANOTHER perl interface to flickr?
jfroebethe other ones have been broken for a long time (either because of use of the abandoned XML::Parser::Lite::Tree module or because the authentication method was never correctly implemented)
buujfroebe: Please no more names involving ::Simple
rindolfbuu: ::Tiny
jfroebeWWW::Flickr is a good possibility
buuThanks rindolf.
mofinohah tiny is the new simple
rindolf::Minimal.
buu::SeriouslyfuckingSmall
rindolf::NotEnough
rindolf::GargantuanlySmall
rindolf::Minuscule
apeiron::Warning::Uses::XML::Simple::And::Thus::Has:: Terrible::Performance::And::Memory::Usage
Fah::Deficient
mofinostay in the Flickr:: space
rindolfapeiron++
mofinoif there already is one
jfroebemofino.. that's the problem what to name it
nadim::Nano
nadimthat should be small enough and it sounds serious
mofinojfroebe, something in Flickr:: ;)
rindolf::Femto
jfroebelol - understood
mofinojfroebe, ::Improved ::Modern ::Lite ::Tiny ::FUCKYEAH
rindolfjfroebe: a Rose by any other name...
mofinoIS A DUCK
rindolfI think half the posts to module-authors are about "How shall I name this module?"
mofinohaha
ikI use perlmonks for that ^_^
rindolfjfroebe: I'm not a fan of XML::Simple either.
mofinoXML::Simple is teh awesome
ik1;
ikXML::Simple is teh sux
mofinowhatever
ik"this could be an arrayref or a hashref or a nothingref depending on how many thingies were in your doo-dad"
mofinoforce it
ikyes
mofinobut yeah, that is a bit annoying
rindolfik++ - my thoughts exactly.
mofinoOH SUDDEN HASHREF
apeironXML::Simple is the MySQL of XML parsers.
mofinohaha
mofinoahh mysql, DOOOMED
rindolfHaha # apeiron++
kent\nlol @ > apeiron
drforrThere's a reason it's called "Simple." You'll find out about 3 days after you start using it.
kent\nwould it be anything releated to being feature-incomplete
drforrThat would be be why it's "simple".
jfroebebut for simple XML data (i.e. Flickr's REST API), it is more than sufficient
kent\ndefine "simple" XML
kent\n$xml = '<' # already too complex
jfroebekent - lol
jfroebe:)
jfroebethoughts on Flickr::YA::API ?
jfroebefor a name
mofinojfroebe, YA?
jfroebeyet another
mofino...
mofinojust pick a name
mofinoFlickr::API
mofinooh, nevermind
jfroebemofino - now you see.. all the good ones are taken ;-)
mofinomaybe you had it at Flickr::Simple2
kent\nFlickr::API:: something
kent\nor something
mofinokent\n, namespace already in use
rindolfFlickr::Two
mofinojfroebe, since your API is an improvement over Simple
nadimmst: lol
kent\nFlickr::API::SucksLess
rindolfjfroebe: you can call it Flickr::Jfroebey
jfroebemofino, I think you might be right.
kent\nFlicker::API::FAFINAFA
jfroeberindolf - lol ... my head is already big enough lol
mofinojfroebe, i mean, if that's what it is, it shows a clear progression from Simple
kent\n( Flicker::API::FAFINAFA is not a flickr api )
nadimFlicker::rekcilF
rindolfjfroebe: I have released Spork::Shlomify with some random changes to Spork that I needed.
rindolfWell, I use subclassing to implement them.
jfroebelmao
apeironYou forked that spork!
rindolfapeiron: it's not a fork! It's an improved spork!
rindolfFlickr::Bettr
kent\nFlickr::Strobe
kent\n( its a bit brighter )
kent\nFlickr::OnAndOff
nadimFlickr::FullBeam
nadimFlickr::FullLights
kent\nFlickr::2009
mofinoFlickr::Meat
kent\nthat way somebody will be able to invent something better next year
kent\nand call it Flickr::2010
mofinoFlickr::rkcilF
mofinoFlickr::Barbie::Edition
mofinoFlickr::Nuts
nadimFlickr::3b0f3a25d07e5d9dbdf98db15ee70410 (and no, it is not random)
mofinoFlickr::911wasaninsidejob
nadimhehe
mofinohaha
jfroebethanks guys :) I've requested the Flickr::Simple2 namespace via pause
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
Tagline"A rose by any other name…" (and a little on XML::Simple)

Whatever

Display

Mel|workYaakov: icke==troll?
rindolfMel|work: no, he's not a troll.
YaakovMel|work: No, icke is just... enthusiastic about "channel purity"
Mel|workk....
* rindolfhates when people abuse the == operator in English for "contained in"
apeironrindolf, "icke contained in troll"? That's not what Mel|work meant.
tarbosure he did, if you make troll a set of users
rindolfapeiron: what he meant by icke == troll is that icke belongs to the set of trolls.
rindolfapeiron: not that every troll in the world is icke.
apeironrindolf, No, he was asking if icke is a troll.
icke$icke->isa('Troll');
icke(false)
rindolfapeiron: is-a means "contained in the set of objects with the property of"
rindolfapeiron: mathematically speaking.
apeironrindolf, Okay, so you're assigning the mathematical meaning of == to its usage in a *perl* channel?
apeironrindolf, Now who's fiddling with meanings, eh?
rindolfapeiron: whatever.
apeiron'whatever' is what those who have lost their argument say.
rindolfapeiron: whatever.
apeiron^ QED
rindolfapeiron: whatever.
PerlJamapeiron: I thought that's what people who don't care say.
apeironPerlJam, If one doesn't care, they wouldn't respond.
PerlJamapeiron: whatever
PerlJam;-)
rindolfLOL.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineWhatever

Dishsort

Display

rindolfMy father and I joked about sorting the dishes in the dishwasher.
rindolfMy father said: "If you won't sort the dishwasher, the dishwasher won't be sorted."
Loci64rindolf: bubble sort *g*
ickedishsort
rindolfThen I said "No, it won't be sorted by me."
rindolfSo he said "No, it won't be sorted at all. We will throw the dishwasher."
rindolf"Along with all the dishes."
rindolfLoci64: bubble sort is inefficient.
rindolfLoci64: you should use quicksort or mergesort.
whoppixor bashsort, or heapsort!
ickeyeah, but thorough.
rindolfLoci64: or for small values of "N" - insertion sort.
whoppixalthough I can't remember if those were stable.
rindolfwhoppix: what is bashsort?
ickethat matters for a dishwasher
EvanCarroll/bin/sort
EvanCarrollduh
Loci64hehe, but dishwashers usually have medium to large numbers of N ;-) maybe trashsort solves the problem
rindolfEvanCarroll: perldoc -f sort is more portable.
whoppixrindolf, shellsort, not bashsort, sorry :)
rindolfBut I'll need to build a robot to use it with the dishes.
ickecshsort
EvanCarrollhere must be a trillion sorting algos
EvanCarrolland 9/10 of them are total shit
EvanCarrolland inferior in every way.
EvanCarrollThis sorting algorithem is coveted if you KNOW that only one value is out of perfect order and it sits in the second to last position of the input.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
Taglinedishsort

Good scalar localtime()

Display

rindolfGood localtime(), #perl!
sproingierindolf: good scalar localtime to you
rindolfsproingie: oooh! scalar context.
sproingiewell i didn't want to make ya parse it
rindolfsproingie: it is implied however.
sproingie(er unparse it)
rindolfGood strftime($format, localtime()).
rindolfBut better use DateTime.
rindolfOr something.
ickesub good ($$$) { ... }
rindolficke: yes.
rindolfeval: good localtime(), #perl!
buubot3rindolf: ERROR: syntax error at (eval 21) line 1, near "good localtime"
Altreuseval: 'hi rindolf how is your '.scalar localtime.'?'
buubot3Altreus: hi rindolf how is your Tue Mar 10 15:43:13 2009?
rindolfAltreus: how is my Tuesday, 10-March-2009?
rindolfAltreus: or do you mean down right to that exact second.
Altreusrindolf: I gave you as much information as I could for you to use as you see fit.
AltreusIf you don't need it all you can just take the date
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineGood scalar localtime()

The Module::Build Saga

Display

rindolfThe Module::Build saga goes on!
mstModule::Build isn't a saga, it's a fucking horror series
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineModule::Build

How to say IP?

Display

AltreusHmm I should have checked the licence on Inline::Lua
dwuorochi_: licence it and people will steal it anyway :)
YaakovWell, you can try to steal that, but it would be like a mouse stealing a battle tank.
dwuAltreus: you mean acronym?
AltreusPerl license
Altreusdwu: n
AltreusIP is not pronounced as a word so it is not an acronym.
AltreusAt least not in the original meaning of the word: which is the only meaning given by a majority of dictionaries
YaakovYes, it's not a true acronym, though the word now has that baggage.
orochi_Ip Ip Ip!
Altreusni!
* orochi_runs away
dwuAltreus: i say ip... :)
YaakovIP would be an abbreviation.
dwualso, initials? but isms are cool.
rindolfI see Eye.Pea.
dwuoooh yes.
dwuand dead people?
* rindolfis listening to Sesame Street - Yip Yip Martians
Altreusdwu: Intent is involved; just because you say it as a word does not mean it was meant to be said as a word ;)
Altreuswikipedia knows about it, and has like a million sauces cited
Altreusmostly dictionaries
YaakovYAPC is an acronymic moniker! BE THERE
dwuAltreus: well absolutement :) also, yumy, i like bernaise.
rindolfI say* Eye.Pea.
dwuhrrrm, the oxford cream dictionary. *nomnomnom*
dwurindolf: awww.
ne2k__Eye.Pea.Freely
rindolfdwu: heh
ne2k__no-one says "ip", everyone says "Eye Pea"
AltreusIp address
dwurindolf: can you just -say- dead people, for the heck of it?
rindolfYip address
dwune2k__: provably false. i need an ip address, stat!
Altreusyiff address?
rindolfdwu: I say dead people.
dwu<3 rindolf
rindolfdwu: I say.
dwuyou do :)
AltreusI say I say I say
rindolfdwu: :-)
ne2k__dwu: you can't stat an ip address, only a file
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineHow to say IP?

And you coll yourself a programmer

Display

rindolfSu-Shee: it's VBA, not VB.
rindolfSu-Shee: completely different beast.
rindolfSu-Shee: and much saner.
rindolfSu-Shee: I don't know VB.
rindolfNever had the need.
c0bra_Fauchi95_: alright
fuzzixrindolf: And you coll yourself a programmer...
rindolfAnd hopefully will never have the need.
rindolffuzzix: call
fuzzixrindolf: Good coll. Dvorak's tough after spending the day on qwerty :)
rindolffuzzix: coll again?
rindolfHmm... there is such a word called "coll".
fuzzixrindolf: That one was a joke :)
c0brawhy stop now? he's on a roll
rindolfWonder what it means.
rindolffuzzix: ah.
simcop2387c0bra: a rick roll?
rindolfrall
c0braa coll roll
rindolfroll the ball.
rindolfrall the boll.
rindolfAnd go to the Super-bowl.
c0braColl\, v. t. [OF. coler, fr. L. collum neck.] To embrace.
rindolf"Rolling is hard. Let's go to the mall."
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineYou coll yourself a programmer

Chuck Norris as a Refactorer

Display

Su-Shee2010 is planned more or less as a refactoring year.
DrForr_A whole *year*? What physical plane of existence do you reside on?
Su-SheeDrForr_: there's also bugs to fix and systems to care for and things like that. it's not that we're locked into the closet and a year later a new, shiny product is released. ;)
DrForr_Closet optional.
Su-SheeI'm not a wonderwoman refactoring half a million lines of perl in a week, sorry. :)
rindolfSu-Shee: Chuck Norris refactors 10 millions lines of perl before lunch.
Su-Sheerindolf: hm. that's the reason.. I'm not as hairy as chuck norris and I don't have a beard...
rindolfSu-Shee: ah.
rindolfSu-Shee: Chuck Norris also wrote a complete Perl 6 implementation.
Su-Sheerindolf: I heard, he already wrote Perl 7.
rindolfSu-Shee: yes.
* rindolfwants to be as awesome as Chuck when he grows up.
Su-Sheerindolf: I envy you. I'll never be as awesome without a beard.
rindolfSu-Shee: heh.
rindolfSu-Shee: it doesn't matter if you're rigid on the outside as long as you're rigid on the inside.
Su-Sheechuck norris doesn't make mistakes.
rindolfSu-Shee: Chuck Norris corrects God.
Su-Sheerindolf: I'll apply as his secretary.
rindolfSu-Shee: as Chuck's?
Su-Sheerindolf: yes.
rindolfSu-Shee: OK.
rindolfChuck Norris doesn't code. When he sits next to a computer, it just does whatever he wants.
Su-SheeI'll tell my boss tomorrow. Chuck is who he wants.
rindolfSu-Shee: Chuck Norris is his own boss.
rindolfSu-Shee: if you hire him, he'll tell your boss what to do.
Su-Sheegood point.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineBecoming as awesome as Chuck Norris is

The Voices Tell Me So.

Display

integralhi perly!
perlygatekeeperhey Chris, hey integral
perlygatekeeperdabreegster, don't know you do I but HEY anyway
perlygatekeeperwhat's been up?
dabreegsterIgnore me, fine.
* dabreegstergoes in a corner
Chris62vwdabreegster is the man, man
dabreegsterAh, that's better.
rindolfperlygatekeeper: yo, yo, yo, dude!
perlygatekeeperrindolf!!
rindolfperlygatekeeper: what's up?
perlygatekeeperhmmm
perlygatekeepernot much
perlygatekeeperyou?
rindolfperlygatekeeper: fine. Let me recall what I said to ezra.
rindolfperlygatekeeper: I'm fine. Got into a few flamewars, and escaped alive to tell the tale.
rindolfperlygatekeeper: worked a bit on my story "The Human Hacking Field Guide".
rindolfperlygatekeeper: (which, BTW, you appear there (as your IRC nick at least)
rindolfperlygatekeeper: and now working on the Computer Graphics section of my homepage.
perlygatekeeperrindolf, what the hell?
rindolfperlygatekeeper: excuse me?
perlygatekeeperrindolf was that someone pretending to be me?
perlygatekeeperI never said those things
rindolfperlygatekeeper: it's a fictitious story.
rindolfperlygatekeeper: relax.
dabreegsterperlygatekeeper: or you could be the imposter right now... or maybe just schizophrenic.
rindolfdabreegster: MPDed not schizophrenic.
rindolfdabreegster: schizophrenia is not Multi-Persona-Disordered.
b0atperlygatekeeper: It's fan fiction from your fan!
dabreegsterrindolf: what's the difference?
rindolfdabreegster: MPD is when there are several personalities living inside your brain.
rindolfdabreegster: in schizophrenia, you have one I-ness, but hear voices, hallucinate and stuff.
dabreegsterrindolf: Ah. Why is it considered a disorder? MPD could be quite useful... One would have different perspectives on a subject.
perlygatekeeperwhere's beth, she'll know it's me
integralBut how will we know it's beth?!
dabreegsterrindolf: Oh, I have MPD then, not schizophrenia. I don't hallucinate.
dabreegsterintegral: WE DON'T!
b0atI don't hallucinate, but my other personality does.
dabreegsterHow do I know all of you exist? Am I just a figment of my own imagination?
dabreegsterb0at: Interesting...
rindolfdabreegster: Julian Jaynes describes schizophrenia very well in his "The Origins of Consciousness during the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind book".
integralnono, you're all just figments of _lilo_'s imagination
dabreegsterrindolf: I'll check it out
b0athe wishes
dabreegsterintegral: and you?
perlygatekeeperthe voices tell me if it's really beth or not
dabreegsterperlygatekeeper: The voices tell me everything.
dabreegsterWait, I do have the Voices. Maybe I have MPD _and_ schizophrenia.
b0atAh, but the question is: do the Voices have voices?
rindolfdabreegster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Origin_of_Consciousness_in_the_Breakdown_of_the_Bicameral_Mind
b0atAnd if so, is it your own voice?
dabreegsterb0at: And do the voices of the voices have voices?
b0atThat's just going too far.
dkrdon't worry, those are angels, invest in tarot cards and you will be able to understand them
dabreegsterb0at: and if it's not, then could it be the voice of........ integral? rindolf? or.... buu!
b0atbuu has other plans for our empty skulls
dabreegsterb0at: and if they do, then what do the voices of the voices of the voices of the Voices sound like?
integral*sob* it's the cabbages. The cabbages keep telling me to do things
Botjereally? most of the time it's the socks that tell me stuff
dabreegsterintegral: The lawn gnomes tell me. They're........everywhere...*sniffle*
integral*blubber* the socks are worse, there's moths living in them
dabreegsterThe lawn gnomes tell me to stay away from Life. They force me to write poetry.
dabreegsterintegral: *whispering* are the _moths_ the Voices? or the voices of the Voices? or the voices of the voices of the Voices?
* dabreegstergoes back to reading
integral*looks furtively around for moths*
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineThe voices told me so.

Hacking someone into a hacker

Display

rindolfSu-Shee: I'm not good in detecting sarcasm over IRC.
rindolfBut naturally sometimes say sarcastic things myself.
* Patternercuts his Nerd Membership Card in small pieces
Su-Sheerindolf: that's why god gave us the ;) smiley ;)
rindolfSu-Shee: not God, but a Russian enterpreneur who trademarked it.
* rindolfwishes we were all speaking in XML.
rindolfJ/K.
rindolfEven Perl is not good enough for human communication.
Su-Sheerindolf: are you really still that nerdy in your age?
rindolfSu-Shee: I guess.
rindolfSu-Shee: nerdy or geeky?
rindolfSu-Shee: I.e: technologically inclined or having no social life?
* rindolfis both though.
Su-Sheerindolf: so let's called it nerky. ;)
rindolfBut hopefully once I get a gf, I'll be less of a Nerd.
Su-Sheerindolf: what makes you think that?
rindolfSu-Shee: I'll go out.
rindolfSu-Shee: and stuff.
rindolfSu-Shee: I also consider to start studying in Tel Aviv Uni.
Su-Sheerindolf: and why does that require a girl friend?
rindolfEnglish/Hebrew/etc. or something.
rindolfLots of girls there. :-)
rindolfSu-Shee: going out?
Su-Sheethose are language-skills humanities-department girls. ;)
Su-Sheerindolf: yes.
rindolfSu-Shee: I like language geeks.
rindolfThing is I think my knowledge of English and Hebrew is too superficial.
rindolfAnd I lack the discipline to correct it on my own.
Su-Sheerindolf: language departments like English are usually exactly _not_ geek-ish departments.
rindolfSu-Shee: you mean they are not tech-savvy?
rindolfBut you can be an English geek.
Su-Sheerindolf: they're not even language geeks usually.
rindolfOr a hacker of English.
rindolfSu-Shee: really?
rindolfHow sad.
Su-Sheerindolf: you know some people just want to have good language skills and read books and communicate.
peterrooneya good hacker will know at least three languages.
rindolfWell, maybe it's different in Israel.
rindolfpeterrooney: human ones, right?
peterrooneyrindolf: at least one of them should be human
rindolfI know English, Hebrew, studied Literary Arabic for 6 years and forgot most of it, and have some rudimentary French.
rindolfpeterrooney: ok.
rindolfpeterrooney: I think ever hacker should know Perl, Python, Haskell, C, Scheme/Lisp and Bash.
rindolfAnd HTML/XHTML+CSS+etc.
Su-Sheethank god I'm no hacker. ;)
* rindolfhacks Su-Shee into a hacker.
Su-Sheerindolf: no you won't. one can perfectly well do nice tech stuff without degrading into someone he/she's not.
rindolfSu-Shee: don't you like programming ? Didn't you contribute to FOSS?
Su-Sheerindolf: aaand? I can do that without declaring myself as hacker, nerd, geek or whatever.
rindolfSu-Shee: OK.
rindolfSu-Shee: but it still makes you a hacker.
Su-Sheerindolf: trust me, I'm very much not a hacker. really. honest to god not.
* rindolfgives a blue badge of honour saying "Hacker" to Su-Shee
rindolfSu-Shee: too late, you're one of us now! ;-)
rindolf"Resistance is futile."
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineHacking someone into a hacker

Selling Perl Documentation at Bargain Prices

Display

FreakGuardicke, how to start REPL?
ickeFreakGuard: looked in the docs?
FreakGuardicke, no.
ickeyou got to load it from CPAN
FreakGuardicke, yeah, I've installed it.
* Altreussells FreakGuard perl docs at a reasonable price only $9.99 each
ickeperldoc Devel::REPL is the direct way to info then
* Altreuswrings his hands and cackles
FreakGuardicke, thanks :P
* rindolfbests Altreus' bargain by 1 cent.
rindolfReminds me of what I learned in Game Theory.
* Altreusoffers free delivery
* rindolfallows free download
rindolfOf course quality > price.
* rindolfoffers a deluxe edition of the Perl documentation for 1,000 USD plus shipping and handling.
hufdiamond-encrusted?
rindolfSee http://perldoc.perl.org/ for a preview.
rindolfhuf: natural diamonds, too.
rindolfhuf: Canadian diamonds.
hufwell, if <> is natural... :)
rindolfhuf: heh.
rindolfhuf: not this kind of diamond.
* Altreuscompresses if () under several million tonnes of rock for a few aeons
rindolfI also give free spaceships - <=>
infraredheh
rindolfDiamonds are heresy! We need PEARLs!
rindolf/usr/bin/PEARL
Altreusf00li5h: Seems like it!
FreakGuardI prefer other gems :-)
AltreusI suggested to Think Geek that they should do Perl necklaces but they didn't
rindolfFreakGuard: Ruby gems?
FreakGuardrindolf, correct.
AltreusThe rare PHP
AltreusDarling I got you a PHP wedding ring
Altreusoh it broke
rindolfAltreus: as PHP tends to.
* rindolflaughts maniacally.
Altreusyou maniac!
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineGiven enough suckers, all profits become shallow

The ApeironPhone

Display

Enlapeiron: because I write client side (Provider) which sends push messages to the phone and checks for new mail in perl
rindolfEnl: a cellphone?
apeironNo, a rotary POTS phone that's capable of receiving email, rindolf.
Enlrindolf: iphone, yep
rindolfapeiron: :-) apeiron++
rindolfapeiron: I want a phone like that!
rindolfapeiron: do you sell them?
apeironrindolf, Yes, and I have some oceanfront property for you, too.
rindolfapeiron: would you accept some of my copious gold bars in return?
apeironrindolf, No. I only deal in Latinum!
rindolfapeiron: Latinum.
rindolfapeiron: gold-pressed Latinum?
apeironyes.
rindolfapeiron: I only have silver-pressed Latinum.
Enlrindolf: get an iPhone, lol
rindolfapeiron: would you accept LeoNerd and nanonyme as substitutes ? You can sell them for mucho Latinum.
apeironheh
rindolfEnl: iPhones are worthless.
* rindolfconspires to steal the ApeironPhones.
rindolfI didn't say I was honest.
* apeironjealously guards his G1
Enlrindolf: now really
rindolfEnl: you should get an ApeironPhone too.
rindolfEnl: chicks love it.
apeironwhat
Enlrindolf: pff, chicks dont matter
rindolfI would kill for an ApeironPhone!
Su-Sheeahaem?
* rindolfkills Su-Shee and takes her ApeironPhone.
apeiron...
apeironwtf.
go|dfishhahaha
* rindolfuses his RindolfMindReading™ to see who else has an ApeironPhone.
apeironPut down the acid, Shlomi. o.o
huflike that'll help
hufhe's still got ~8 hrs on it
Su-Sheerindolf: I have an apeiron-phone?
Su-Sheewhere did buu go anyway?
rindolfSu-Shee: you had one.
rindolfSu-Shee: before you died.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineThe ApeironPhone - you know you want it

use Zaba

Display

rindolfSu-Shee: "I always wonder why the people I hang out with are so pedantic. And then I remember: because they are so pedantic." -- a Perl-ILer. ;-)
Zabarindolf, because they use warnings
* rindolfadds "use Zaba;" to his code.
Zabaoh no, I'm being used!
* rindolfadds "abuse Zaba;" to his code.
rindolfNext: "misuse Zaba;"
Zabaouch!
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
Taglineuse Zaba

She can smoke…

Display

rindolfShe's a hot chick.
rindolfBut she smokes.
go|dfishShe can smoke as long as she's smokin'.
Channel#perlcafe
NetworkFreenode
TaglineShe can smoke…

iCanHazPad?

Display

→johnjohn01has joined #perl
johnjohn101when will I be able to write a perl gui that will work on the ipad?
rindolfjohnjohn101: iPad?
rindolfjohnjohn101: was it released yet?
rindolfjohnjohn101: I think there are Perl bindings for Cocoa/Carbon/etc.
johnjohn101today.. Just getting sucked by the hype
rindolfjohnjohn101: ah.
rindolfjohnjohn101: I'm incredibly suspicious of Apple.
johnjohn101why's that?
* Caelumwill wait for the cheap ipad knockoff that runs Android and can multitask
rindolfjohnjohn101: http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/anti/apple/
rindolf133 links and going strong.
* rindolfthinks he has a link on his homepage or blogs for every occasion.
johnjohn101they definitely know how to hype their new products. I get so suspicious of the hype. Nothing ever lives up to that type of billing
rindolfjohnjohn101: yes, I'm suspicious of hype too.
gooshierindolf the new apple maxipad is out today.. leave it to apple to create a new device with all the cost of a high end laptop.. the performance of a netbook and the interface of a cellphone
Caelumgooshie: and no multitasking
rindolfgooshie: heh.
rindolfgooshie++
johnjohn101will google be able to match it?
johnjohn101anytime soon?
rindolfSome technologies were not hyped and yet became very popular - UNIX, C, HTML.
Caelumthere's no amazingly complicated technology involved
Caelumit's just a big iphone
claes_nicely packaged
johnjohn101drop it once and it's unusable?
gooshie...if they just made a cover to protect the screen.. and then maybe because they had like a cover the inside could be the screen and the other part could then be a keyboard!.. that would be cool!
johnjohn101gooshie: good thing you have an open mind about the product!!
* gooshied:-/
gooshie..the new apple maxipad... when your laptop is too big.. your iphone is too small and your wallet is too full.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineiCanHazPad?

Web Development Frameworks

Display

markl_so while i'm on the subject, is there a good perl HTML framework similar to what CakePHP is to PHP ?
markl_like an MVC style environment
markl_so i'm wondering if mason is "state of the art" or if there are other tools to consider these days :)
DrForrCatalyst.
markl_catalyst ok, cool ty
rindolfmarkl_: there are plenty of other web-devel frameworks.
rindolfperlbot: web frameworks
perlbotrindolf: CGI-Application (and Titanium), CGI-Application-Plus, CGI-Builder, CGI-Prototype, Jifty, Catalyst (and Reaction), Mojo, SweetPea, Dancer, Gantry, AxKit, WebGUI
markl_rindolf: hmm, way too many it would appear :)
rindolfmarkl_: yeah.
markl_what are the easiest ones for people good with perl but not HTML/CSS/AJAX experts ?
rindolfmarkl_: not that Ruby or PHP have fewer.
markl_or the most widely adopted one ?
rindolfmarkl_: the most popular appears to be Catalyst.
markl_catalyst seems to at least have a book :)
rindolfmarkl_: it has several books.
rindolfmarkl_: I worked a bit with Mojolicious, and it wasn't too bad, but it reinvents a lot of wheels.
rindolfDue to its philosophy.
rindolfmarkl_: I also did some Catalyst projects.
rindolfCatalyst is a bit complicated.
rindolfsawyer: can you comment about Dancer?
sawyerDancer is a lightweight web framework, it aims to make website development easy and rapid
Su-Sheelike all the other web frameworks :)
sawyerfor complex or extensive websites, i recommend Catalyst
sawyerbut for smaller or not-as-complex website, Dancer is what i use
markl_ok ty
* Su-Sheewants the one which makes it hard, complicated and difficult ;)
sawyerSu-Shee, true :)
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineWeb Development Frameworks

Slippers and Perl

Display

mstfrikinz: but you're welcome to ignore us, just come back for your "I told you so" when the penny finally drops :D
rindolfbuu: define penny finally drops
rindolfbuubot: define penny finally drops
buubotrindolf: penny n 1: a fractional monetary unit of Ireland and the United Kingdom; equal to one hundredth of a pound 2: a coin worth one-hundredth of the value of the basic unit [syn: {cent}, {centime}] [also: {pence} (pl)]
dngorfrikinz: Reflex is still pretty raw, but it's eventy without so much loopy.
rindolfIn Hebrew we say "The phone token has fallen" instead of "the penny finally drops".
dngorIs that related to "the other shoe has dropped"?
rindolfdngor: well, it means the same thing as the English expression - "I finally got to the bottom of it."
rindolfOr understood it.
dngorOh, they're completely different idioms.
* mstbeats dngor with a slipper
rindolfmst: :-D
Su-Sheekinky.
mstSu-Shee: wrt the topic ["Su-Shee wants the web-development framework that makes web-development hard, difficult and complicated"], it's called Maypole :)
rindolfmst: heh.
rindolfmst: yes, I can imagine that about Maypole.
Su-Sheemst, avar: thank you so much. ;)
Su-Sheeplease mail the sourcecode to rindolf who put it in the topic ;)
rindolfSu-Shee: I can CPAN it.
Su-Sheethe topic?
mutewitI have a string and am looking for a quick way to extract all 5-character slices out of it.
rindolfSu-Shee: :-)
rindolfIRC-Freenode-Perl-Topic-SuShee-WebDevelFrameworks-v0.0.1.tar.gz
mutewitFor eg. 'abcdef' returns 'abcde', 'bcdef'
mutewitAny suggestions?
rindolfmutewit: use subst
rindolfmutewit: use substr
rindolfmutewit: with a map
rindolfeval: my $long_str = "0123456789abcdefgh"; [map { substr($long_s, $_, $_+5 } (0 .. length($long_s)-5)]
buubotrindolf: ERROR: syntax error at (eval 36) line 1, at EOF
rindolfeval: my $long_str = "0123456789abcdefgh"; [map { substr($long_s, $_, $_+5) } (0 .. length($long_s)-5)]
buubotrindolf: []
mutewitrindolf: Awesome.
rindolfeval: my $long_s = "0123456789abcdefgh"; [map { substr($long_s, $_, $_+5) } (0 .. length($long_s)-5)]
buubotrindolf: ["01234", 123456, 2345678, "3456789a", "456789abc", "56789abcde", "6789abcdefg", "789abcdefgh", "89abcdefgh", "9abcdefgh", "abcdefgh", "bcdefgh", "cdefgh", "defgh"]
rindolfThrid time the charm!
mst... thrid
* rindolfhits buubot with a big strict pragma.
* mstturns the slipper on rindolf
rindolfmst: yes, my typing sucks today.
rindolfBut f**k it! IRC is not exactly the declaration of independence.
pragma_ow!
rindolfpragma_: pardon?
* rindolfhits pragma_ with mst's slipper so it will really hurt.
pragma_why are you hitting buubot with me?
rindolfpragma_: the strict pragma.
rindolfpragma_: not you.
rindolfperlbot: strict
perlbotrindolf: Perl strictures - http://perldoc.perl.org/strict.html
rindolfpragma_: ^^^
rindolfpragma_: we call the lowercase modules pragmata (sp?) in Perl.
rindolfhttp://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=pragmata - hmm....
rindolfI thought pragmata was a valid plural of pragma.
dngorow? ow!
mutewitrindolf: Are you sure that generates only strings of length 5?
rindolfmutewit: well, you need to watch from fencepost errors.
mstmutewit: hey, he got you half way there
rindolfmutewit: oh wait.
mstmutewit: how about you read p3rl.org/substr and p3rl.org/map and have a go yourself
rindolfmutewit: yes , you need substr($long_s, $_, 5)
mstmutewit: this is a help-you-to-learn channel
mstmutewit: not a "write your code for you" channel
rindolfmutewit: and beware from fencepost errors.
rindolflike substr($long_s , 1000, 5)
rindolfBecause that will be ""
rindolfOr a 4 chars length.
mutewitrindolf: I wanted the length argument to be 5 :p
mutewitmst: I understand, I just missed the $_ + 5 issue.
mstmutewit: right. what I'm saying is, you should have experimented
rindolfmutewit: yes, I know.
mstmutewit: then shown us the experiment and said "I can't work out why this is still wrong, here's what I've worked out so far"
mstmutewit: then we can help you learn
mstmutewit: assuming learning to write stuff yourself is what you're aiming for
* rindolfwaits for tybalt89 to come up with a funky regex to do it.
mst(if it isn't, please just throw yourself off a cliff or something, kthx ;)
rindolfmst: I think that's the case, no need to preach to mutewit about it.
mutewitmutewit: I did, and figured out the soln. when switching windows.
mstmutewit: aye. I'm just trying to explain how to get the most learning out of us as well as the most working code.
* rindolfsometimes thinks we spend much more IRC volume discussing netiquette than actually suffering from the bad netiquette.
mutewitBut by the time I came back to the channel there was a whole page of "preaching".
mutewitI was using a split method with array indexing and it felt too much like a C-approach.
rindolfmutewit: oh, you split the string into chars?
mstyeah, by the time you've done map, join, split, ...
mstyou've basically just reimplemented substr badly :)
mutewitrindolf: That's what I was doing, but the map/substr approach is a lot cleaner.
rindolfmutewit: yeah/
rindolfmutewit: split into chars sometimes has some uses.
rindolfmutewit: but this reminds me too much of SICP.
rindolfperlbot: sicp
perlbotrindolf: http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/ - "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs" - A Classical Text on Programming
rindolfmutewit: see - http://www.shlomifish.org/lecture/Perl/Lightning/Too-Many-Ways/slides/slide13.html
rindolfmutewit: this is how an SICP programmer will implement a simple text processing task.
mutewitSICP, love the book.
mutewitand all the OCaml work this year has given rise to a functional bent of mind
mutewitwhich is kinda screwing around with my perl code.
rindolfmutewit: yeah.
rindolfmutewit: http://www.shlomifish.org/lecture/Perl/Lightning/Too-Many-Ways/slides/slide12.html - this is the fastest Perl solution.
rindolfAt least in speed.
rindolfIt can be a little shorter with a regex lookahead, but it's less elegant and slower.
rindolfhttp://www.shlomifish.org/lecture/Perl/Lightning/Too-Many-Ways/slides/slide9.html - there you go.
rindolfmutewit: did you know how to program before reading SICP?
rindolfI think it's not a good introductory book.
rindolfMIT are going to ditch it in favour of some Python/Robotics curriculum.
mstI think it's only a good introductory book if you know some math and have the brain to follow it
mstit teaches a lot of hard concepts very quickly
Su-Sheemst: from a "I'm from the humanities department" point of view it's managable. it's not easy, but everyone can work with it.
tybalt89eval: $_ = "0123456789abcdefgh"; [ /(?=(.{5}))/g ]
buubottybalt89: ["01234",12345,23456,34567,45678,56789,"6789a","789ab","89abc","9abcd","abcde","bcdef","cdefg","defgh"]
mutewitrindolf: Yes.
rindolfmutewit: ah. Using what?
rindolftybalt89++ # Up for the challenge.
mutewitand yes, MIT ditched SICP in favor of a Python-based intro course.
tybalt89rindolf: I was off in other windows :(
tybalt89mutewit: ^^ for 5 char slices
rindolfmutewit: don't use it if you want future generations to understand it.
* rindolfslaps tybalt89 with mst's slipper for golfing mutewit's solution and telling him it's a good idea.
tybalt89rindolf: that's not golfing, just common simple regex :)
rindolftybalt89: sigh.
rindolftybalt89: simple.
rindolfirregular regular expression.
rindolfMaybe use Regexp::Common
mutewitI added in tybalt89's code but commented it for future reference.
mstI'd definitely use the substr approach for real code
msttybalt89's code is cleverness to prove it can be done; I don't believe he was recommending it
tybalt89mst: sigh, yes, I am recommending it. It's the clearest solution.
msttybalt89: I respectfully disagree.
mstI find the substr approach far more obvious
Chazzrindolf, ty. :)
mstbut then, I mostly write applications perl rather than scripts, so I only engage in regexp cleverness when actively useful
rindolftybalt89: look-aheads and look-behinds are dark corners of the Perl not-so-reg-regexes
YaakovIn the context of this particular problem, it's pretty straightforward, but, knowledge of the development/maintenance team(s) would push my choce one way or another.
tybalt89mst: note it took rindolf three tries, and even then he got it wrong.
rindolftybalt89: well, I'm not focused now.
msttybalt89: map substr($str, $_, 5), 0 .. length($str)-5; ?
mstmaybe -6
* tybalt89turns the lens, trying to focus rindolf
rindolfmst: -5
mstbut it's hardly difficult; rindolf's just having a day of silly mistakes
rindolfUnit tests!
mstI'd expect him to get it right first time when on form too :)
rindolfSome clear code is hard to get right.
rindolfDoesn't make it less clear.
mstyeah
rindolfMost people will not write a correct binary search at first try.
tybalt89"maybe -6" is proof of unclearness :)
rindolfBut the correct binary search is easy to digest.
msttybalt89: no, it's proof it's 8pm on a sunday and I'm not particularly awake either
mstbut your code just made me go "hang on, WHAT?!"
mstthen I had to stop and dissect it
mst-then- I saw what you were doing
rindolfmst++
mstalso, the substr approach displays the semantics and the reasoning
mstwhereas the regex approach displays, well, line noise, frankly
rindolfmst: why don't we agree to disagree with tybalt89 ?
rindolfmst: so how's the weather? ;-)
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineSlippers and Perl

Worst Perl Programmer in the World

Display

papertigersis there just a way of importing the global variables in the module from the main script?
annono
nadimyes
rindolfanno: you can using Exporter
annodepends
nadimbut I hope no one will teach you
rindolfnadim: sorry. :-(
annofrom the main script?
nadimfor what?
rindolfnadim: about the Exporter.
nadimbad boy!
tm604papertigers: yes. but definitely don't do this: { no strict 'refs'; *{"main::$_"} = sub () { $constant{$_} } foreach keys %constant; }
rindolfnadim: :-(
rindolfpapertigers: please design a good API using subroutines and objects.
nadimOK I get it you are all working towards the same goal. making the worst perl developer in the universe
rindolfnadim: yes, someone has to outcompete me.
Khisanththat would be hard
rindolfnadim: I'm tired of being the worst Perl hacker for 5 years straight.
simcop2387heh
rindolfnadim: it's not easy.
nadim.me hands the black camel to rindolf
rindolfnadim: it involves many commitments.
nadimrindolf: lol, true
Khisanthbut at least it explains all the advice you have been giving
nadimhehe
rindolfKhisanth: true. :-)
rindolfLOL.
simcop2387rindolf: i dunno if anyone actually read the code to Language::Farnsworth they might think otherwise
Khisanthand I am not joking
nadimhttp://search.cpan.org/dist/Lingua-tlhInganHol-yIghun/ all!
nadimrindolf: when you can program perl like that it will be a good day to die
rindolfnadim: Klingon?
nadimright
simcop2387nadim++
rindolfnadim: heh, nice.
squeeksklingon? http://search.cpan.org/~jwalt/Acme-Lingua-NIGERIAN-1.0.0/NIGERIAN.pm blah.
shortensqueeks's url is at http://xrl.us/bhg9bo
rindolfnadim: I'll recommend it to someone so he can outcompete me.
* rindolfrubs his hands with an evil grin on his face.
Khisanthnadim: that doesn't seem to be using the correct font
nadimthe module is impressing (Damian is no joke) even the documentation is great
rindolfnadim: we've got a plan!
* nadimhides
* mstdearly loves Damian's code
mstbut I really do wish it was all in the Acme:: namespace where it belongs
rindolfmst: heh.
nadimI like his API's. very difficult to find something that is not complete and well thought
rindolfnadim: yes, but he tends to neglect them and then they accumulate bugs.
nadimI could list ten other names here
nadimIngy!
rindolfnadim: heh.
nadimoops, I tried not to :)
mstnadim: IO::All
mstnadim: not *everything* ingy writes needs to be Acme
mstthough, yes, quite a bit of it :D
nadimmst: I didn't mean acme. I think Ingy has a lot of great ideas.
mstoh, you're talking about maintainership
nadimyes
mstyeah, why do you think I got so good at giving my modules away?
nadimwhat's your secret?
tm604ingy was responsible for jemplate, I think - still one of my favourites.
mstnadim: first you give 'em commit bits, then you give 'em co-maint, then when they're not looking you make a run for it.
* nadimmakes a mental note
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineWorld's Worst Perl Programmer (5 years straight)

One Moose Per Child

Display

rindolfMy Moose-based modules emit strange errors when ran under Devel::Cover . /me is a sad kitten.
buuWhen my moose emit things I begin to worry.
Su-SheeI don't even have a moose.
Su-Sheebut I go to Ikea sometimes!
rindolf"I want a Moose!"
* rindolfbuys a Moose for Su-Shee
rindolfOne Moose Per Child.
buuA moose in every.. editor?
Su-SheeI'll have to put it in the living room.
rindolfIf we perldoc -f fork a Moose-based program do we get two Meese.
rindolfSu-Shee: what if it's a Chocolate Moose?
Su-Sheenow it's not the elephant in the room noone's talking about, it's the moose.
Su-Sheerindolf: real size? living room.
annoTycho de Brahe had a moose free running in his castle Unraniborg. he found a vat of beer, drank it, fell down a stair and had to be killed.
Su-Sheehm, I could make a nice shower gel with moose milk powder and sell it exclusively to perl programmers.
rindolfanno: the astronomer?
annoyes
rindolfanno: ah, really?
Su-Sheeanno: I don't have a castle.
annofew do
Su-Sheeindeed.
Su-Sheewise anno.
rindolfOne Castle Per Child!
Su-Sheewhen I do my moose presentation, I'll rename myself to Moo-Shee.
rindolfSu-Shee: and rent a Castle.
Su-Sheegood idea. on company's expenses. ;)
rindolfSu-Shee: heh.
Su-Sheeanno: wanna come? I own Schloss Charlottenburg now. ;)
rindolfhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlottenburg_Palace - hmmm....
* rindolfcontemplates what to do now.
* Su-SheeRESTs.
rindolfMaybe I'll watch more of Red vs. Blue.
rindolfOr I'll rent Schloss Charlottenburg .
rindolfOr something.
rindolfI may want to refactor the other parts of XML-Grammar-Fiction/Screenplay. I can live without testcover.
rindolfBut I need my Moose.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineOne Moose Per Child

Do we have any doctors?

Display

dxtrDo we have any doctors in here?
rindolfdxtr: with Ph.D. or M.D.?
munikI have a PhD in Linguistics!
munik^ lie
munik:]
dxtrrindolf: I don't care as long as they can treat patients
rindolfdxtr: heh.
munik:o
munikwebmd.com
munikmight be better than #perl
dxtrrindolf: That question would be fun in combat. "WE NEED A DOCTOR HERE!" - "PH.D OR M.D!?"
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineDo we have any doctors in here?

It's slower

Display

tm604eval: my $txt = "this is a test"; my $rslt = substr($txt, 4, length($txt) - 4, undef); [ $txt, $rslt ];
buubottm604: ["this"," is a test"]
tm604^ can anyone suggest a neater way of writing that? thought undef for the 3rd substr parameter would work instead of explicitly giving a length.
rindolfeval: my $txt = "this is a test"; my $rslt = substr($txt, 4, - 4, q{}); [ $txt, $rslt ];
buubotrindolf: ["thistest"," is a "]
tm604Just surprised that omitting the length for substr isn't the same as passing undef.
annotm604: sometimes perl makes a difference between "not specified" and undef
ishitm604: wouldn't regexpr be shorted? I'm not sure what passes as 'neat' in perl :)
ishishorter, even...
rindolfeval: @s = ("Long string this is a test" =~ m{\A(.{0,6})(.*?)\z}ms); [@s]
buubotrindolf: ["Long s","tring this is a test"]
rindolftm604: will that work?
tm604rindolf: thanks, that may be a better option.
rindolftm604: nice. :-)
Khisanththat would definitely not be "better" ...
ishiit's slower ;)
tm604hmm, since I'm passing this through SOAP::Lite through a vpn on the other side of the world maybe three times a day, I think I'll have to rewrite this part in highly-efficient x64 assembler with fallback to GPU if available.
sacxnah you need an FPGA
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineMission critical fast

Surviving without "a"'s

Display

annomay be neat, but hard to follow
annonot fore real code
Botjequbit: cute.
Botje*anno
Su-Sheehow did you get.. ah. ;)
Su-SheeBotje: clean your a so you don't slide to the q ;)
BotjeSu-Shee: switch from qwerty to azerty :p
Su-Shee:)
Botjeant i'm distracted
* Su-Sheesteals Botje's a while he's distracted anyway...
Botjegive th.t b.ck!!
Su-SheelAlAlAlaaaaah! :)
Botjehow will i cope without .n . key!
DrForr"h".chr(ord('b')-1)."t"...
anno4in't th4t good enough
Su-Shee*hehe* ;)
Su-Sheetake anno's. ;)
msttime for 4n 4cme module!
Su-Sheegod what have I done.. ;)
DrForrlipogrammatical perl.
Su-Sheeis that the opposite of lowfat c?
DrForr(lipograms are works with one letter not used...)
Su-Sheeah. of course. it's leipogramm in german..
annohmm... lipos - fat, lipein - lack
annoah, leipein
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineSurviving without the letter "a".

What would your nickname imply

Display

fedoragirlwait, people use binary packages in freebsd?
asarchfedoragirl, pkg_add -rv <package_name>
fedoragirlI thought everyone compiled from source manually or from ports
fedoragirl:(
asarchNo, not any more
fedoragirlI knew it was possible
fedoragirlI just didn't realize anyone would actually do that
fedoragirlI thought it was a gimmick
EdwardIIIthose wacky devil worshipers over at freebsd
fedoragirlit's funny because my roomate is into demonology
fedoragirland she actually uses fedora
fedoragirlwhile I, for the most part, use freebsd or debian
EdwardIIIyet your nickname would imply otherwise
fedoragirlmy nickname implies a lot of things
EdwardIIIbsdgirl would just attract far too much attention
Su-SheeEdwardIII: thanking you for pointing out the obvious. I think, noone would have noticed otherwise.
EdwardIIIcome to mention it maybe i'll take that nickname arf arf
fedoragirlbsdgirl is actually taken
fedoragirland I really should find a new one
MorgyNhats <3
rindolf-NickServ- debiangirl is not registered.
Su-Sheeman, lucky for us women, there more distributions out there than women in computing. we can ALL have our own nick!
mstSu-Shee++ # roflmao
rindolfSu-Shee: heh.
Su-Sheeyggdrasilgirl, slackgirl, fromscratchgirl .. imagine the possibilities.
EdwardIIIslackboy sounds pretty sexy
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineWhat would your nickname imply

The browser for the social web

Display

rindolfLumberCartel: hi, what's up? Long time.
LumberCartelHi rindolf. Yeah, it has been quite some time. I've been very busy setting up and supporting networks, and creating interactive web sites (written in Perl, using PostgreSQL for the database; good stuff like that). How are you?
rindolfLumberCartel: I have a job.
LumberCartelrindolf: Congratulations! What are you doing for work?
rindolfLumberCartel: I'm doing Perl+Catlayst work for a Tel Aviv based startup.
LumberCartelrindolf: Very nice!
rindolfLumberCartel: and been working on Freecell Solver ( http://fc-solve.berlios.de/ ) and http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/projects/black-hole-solitaire-solver/
rindolfI converted the Black Hole Solitaire solver to C and it is now running faster, so I ran it on the first 1 million PySolFC deals.
rindolfAbout 86% of them are solvable.
LumberCartelFreecell solver? What are you trying to do? Make employees feel even more bored at their already-so-boring-that-they-play-Freecell jobs? Heheh.
rindolfLumberCartel: they should learn programming and help me with Freecell Solver. Then they won't be bored.
LumberCartelheheh.
* rindolfis going to delete ~/.flock/ - useless piece of sh*t.
LumberCartelIsn't Flock that thing that spun off from Netscape?
rindolfLumberCartel: Flock is the browser for the social web.
LumberCartelYeah, that's the one.
rindolfLumberCartel: only I found it to be the unsocial browser .
[vlad]social web?
LumberCartelA handful of my customers still use Netscape 9. They tried Flock, and hated it.
LumberCartelOr is it Netscape 8? Ah, I don't care.
LumberCartelMost of my clients use Opera or Firefox these days.
rindolfLumberCartel: Netscape 9...
* LumberCartellaughs in appreciation for the version of Netscape.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineThe browser for the social web

Revision Numbers

Display

rindolfjawnsy: no version numbers of what?
jawnsyrindolf: version numbers for your documentation stuff. like a way to download the web site as a tarball, with a version number (maybe even a date)
rindolfjawnsy: ah.
rindolfjawnsy: I'm using Subversion for it.
rindolfjawnsy: I can start making releases with version numbers.
tagsubversion revision numbers are not the same as version numbers, and typically shouldn't be used to source version numbers.
tagunless you don't care that the version number is totally meaningless. In that case, you might as well use a date so it can atleast mean *something*
buutag: Let's use UUIDS!
tagoh, like git?
tagyeah it's the same
buu"Dude, version 91239213912ASD!@#ASDASDADS!@#!@!" is totally superiour to "124912312ASD1242412FF232"
tagThey have no real value, other than the ability to uniquely identify a something
rindolfbuu: LOL.
Botjewell, git's sha1 sum at least identify a point in time
rindolftag: I won't use subversion rev numbers.
tagwithout telling you jack shit about what that something is
buuTo be fair, svn numbers increase..
rindolfbuu: yes, but an earlier branch can have a later rev number.
rindolfbuu: I think Config-IniFiles used CVS revisions as version numbers.
buurindolf: Uh oh
buurindolf: I feel the world around me collapsing.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineDiscussing revision numbers

SOAP

Display

GlanzmannHello; Is there a perl module that can all a routine with complex typed defined in a wsdl file?
DebolazGlanzmann: You mean a SOAP client with WSDL support?
Su-Sheewsdl as in soap and wsdl? then there is SOAP::WSDL.
GlanzmannDebolaz: Yes, but I need to write a server as well. :-)
GlanzmannSu-Shee: Okay. I'll try that one.
DebolazGlanzmann: Didn't your mother ever tell you to not use SOAP? :)
GlanzmannYes, she did. I'm unlucky. I'm forced to use it.
Su-SheeSOAP - you still feel dirty afterwards.
* f00li5hkeeps scrubbing but doesn't feel clean
Su-Sheef00li5h: let me send you one of my handmade hemp-sheabutter-almond oil-babassu soaps. ;)
f00li5hsheabutter!
Su-Sheewe're disabling our SOAP stuff. it only gets more complicated every day.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineSOAP

Eclipsed

Display

kleanchapIs there an IDE for Perl? I need to debug some of my code.
Altreuskleanchap: well there's Padre, but you'll spend as long trying to install it ...
Zabakleanchap, perl has a debugger: perl -d
Cipher-0There's always Komodo.
Cipher-0I use Notepad++, but as people here will attest, I suck.
rindolfperlbot: ide
perlbotrindolf: Padre - padre.perlide.org, Komodo, Eclipse (with EPIC), KDevelop, X/GNU Emacs, gvim, TextMate; see also http://perl.net.au/wiki/Perl_developer_tools and definitely not Xcode
rindolfkleanchap: ^^^
rindolfkleanchap: and it's in the FAQ for crying out loud.
rindolfanno: yes.
kleanchapZaba, rindolf and Altreus Thnx!
squeeksdefinitely not Xcode? but.. but... but... I went to all the effort to make http://github.com/squeeks/Xcode-Perl-File-Templates
rindolfkleanchap: I can recommend perl -d as well.
Altreusis perl+eclipse any good?
Altreusoh right I remember
AltreusI wanted a vim plugin for $IDE and none of them worked
squeeks"is...eclipse any good" what
Altreussqueeks: valid question >:(
kent\neclipse seems to be one of those platforms which make me wonder what processor development has really acheived in the last 20 years.
Altreusit means you can do more shit really really slowly
kent\n"Gosh, I can still type faster than this, something is very wrong in the universe"
thrig"Gosh, eclipse killed the devo database through sheer numbers of DB connections"
kent\nI'd rather spend time programming, not sitting on my hands while eclipse decides it might work today
kent\nIf I wanted to sit on my hands, I'd be using C++ ;)
LeoNerd"I hear eclipse is really nice, but I'm still waiting for it to load"
rokoteko"Gosh, eclipse's spell checker got confused between cvs and csv."
Altreuskent\n: swordfights
squeekskent\n: so you could effectively hit your head against the keyboard
kent\neclipse: What your momma causes when she stands up
rokotekowritten using eclipse's help: sub look_mom_I_can_parse_HTML_with_regex { $_[0] =~ /HTML/ }
squeeksWhat was that comment that went something along the lines of "I'm a grown up now, I can eat raw cookie dough and parse HTML with regular expressions"
* kent\nthinks he should compile a list of things to bash and make it a factoid. PHP, Eclipse, Microsoft, # there's a start
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineEclipsed

Paint of the Bikeshed

Display

rindolfRegarding perlipc.pod : in the beginning of the sentence should I write "N.B. If the signal is fired, something bad happens." or "N.B.: if the signal is fired, something bad happens." ?
talexbWith the colon, plz. :)
rindolftalexb: I see.
rindolftalexb: and a lowercase "if"?
talexbNo, I think that could be upper case ..
rindolftalexb: I thought so too, but the original was the other way.
talexbit's a sentence unto itself.
rindolftalexb: but it's after a colon.
rindolftalexb: a colon does not start a new sentence.
talexbI dunno. My degree's in Engineering, not English. :(
talexbFor me, the colon says, "Thing to the left is the title, thing to the right is the content.
rindolftalexb: OK, thanks anyway.
PerlJamrindolf: I'd capitalize "If"
sdgvfrindolf: how about just 'Note:'
* talexb\o/
PerlJamsdgvf: because he wants to "Note Well:" not just "Note:" :)
Zabahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colon_(punctuation), 'Use of capitals'
annoNote well: ...
sdgvfmost people, even if they know what N.B. stands for, aren't going to note it a whole lot harder than if it just says Note:
rindolfBikeshedding.
rindolfPerlJam: according to Zaba's wikipedia link, it should not be capitalised.
Su-Sheewhat it's for nota bene?
PerlJamrindolf: My reading of the article is inconclusive as to what it "should" be. It seems to all depend on who's manual of style you subscribe to.
^Mike\bSu-Shee: yes
Su-Sheeif a real sentence which could stand for its own follows, I start with a capital letter. if not, I don't.
talexbBy the way: Don't forget what colour you'd like the bike shed painted.
PerlJamtalexb: "color" ;->
talexbPffffffft. ;)
LeoNerdWait.. we're -painting- the bikeshed now? Nobody ever mentioned paint before...
talexbLeoNerd And you're head of the committee to choose the new COLOUR.
Su-Shee"first we choose the color, then we choose the paint." (from my english teacher at school.. :)
LeoNerd$ perl -MConvert::Color -E'say Convert::Color->new("bikeshed")->as_rgb->rgb' => Unable to parse color name bikeshed at -e line 1
kent\ndoesn't the paint type preclude the colour choice? and paint manufacturer?
LeoNerdHehe.. Now we're arguing about the process of bikeshedding.. Go meta :)
kent\nLeoNerd: you read my mind
kent\nand now I mention that, were' metameta something
talexbTaking things a *little* too literally.
Su-Sheekent\n: it's a lesson to illustrate that color and paint are two different things...
LeoNerdColour is very complex problem...
LeoNerdA lot of computer-type techies think it's just an RGB triplet, or maybe a triplet in some other space...
talexbAnd anyway, Google's just patented the primary colours in their logo. But mauve is still available. For good reason.
Su-SheeLeoNerd: luckily, I've learned "color" by actual "paint". ;)
kent\nYeah, it matters about whats in the proximity of the bikeshed, perceptual colour :(
annoGerman uses the same word for color and paint, so we need to be taught the difference
annosame with shadow and shade
* LeoNerdtakes anno out back to "teach him a lesson"
Su-Sheeanno: excellent example. same with freedom and liberty.
* kent\nwonders if the bikeshed has to be colourblind safe
* talexbwonders what colour a duck blind is. Oh. Camoflage. Never mind.
Su-Sheecamouflage. you've just introduced french into the discussion ;)
kent\ntalexb: what colours are blind ducks painted though?
kent\nwait till we start painting our words, bikeshed synaesthesia sounds like a win.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineWhich paint do you want your bikeshed?

COBOL and Slices

Display

BinGOsit was someone asking for help with *python* man-in-the-middle script in a Perl channel.
BinGOspersistently
rcsheetswhy can't they figure out we're all about cobol in here? :(
BinGOsNah, metallica
dngorrcsheets: They seem to be skipping the IDENTIFICATION DIVISON.
rcsheetsdngor: kids these days, always skimming
pcardrcsheets: LOL
dngorI would give him the cliffs notes to the channel, but I'm from a very flat region.
pcardrcsheets: I remember someone once coming in to this channel asking how to port a Perl program into Cobol
rcsheetsD:
Mimisbrunnrbwahahaha
Mimisbrunnrreally?
pcardyes
rcsheetsthat's... that's... horrid
rcsheetsmaybe they were off their medication
pcardheh
Mimisbrunnrthat's like asking to port a GUI to an adding machine
BinGOsI am so glad all the drugs, alcohol and therapy have managed to destroy all my memories of COBOL
rcsheetsi need to implement a restful web app on my abacus
pcardMimisbrunnr: lol
Mimisbrunnrrcsheets: it could be done - but we will need a lot of booze
Mimisbrunnrget me drunk enough, I'll program on anything
Mimisbrunnrincluding your cat
rcsheetsMimisbrunnr: can we do the booze part without the cobol/abacus/etc?
pcardBinGOs: indeed.... I did Cobol way back, and it's not something I care to go back to
BinGOsThough I do still shudder subconsciously whilst watching BSG
pcardBinGOs: the original or the newer one?
Mimisbrunnrrcsheets - deal
BinGOsWhenever they go on about the Gods of COBOL.
MimisbrunnrYa R’lyeh! COBOL fhtagn!
ZadYreeHuh? what does @array[$arg] mean in p5?
pcardit's an array slice
pcardor a slice of pie
pcardone of those
rcsheetsmmm
annoa warnable offence
rcsheetsarray slice, a la mode
pcardfor pie?
pcardwarn if pie; ?
ZadYreeheh
pcardoh I see
pcardwarn "Pie's done!" if defined $pie;
Mimisbrunnrpcard: never warn if pie; rejoice if pie
pcardah
szrsay "mmmmm, pie!"
rcsheetswell, warning when it's done could make sense, inasmuch as you don't want to burn it
pcardrcsheets: yeah, like bell/beeper on an oven
rcsheetsyes
rcsheetsthen the rejoice would be triggered when it's cool enough to eat
Mimisbrunnrsleep until ( $pie eq 'done' );
pcardit's still up to the baker to actually turn off the oven and remove the pie
Mimisbrunnrhrmm, wait no, I would never wake up
pcardMimisbrunnr: there you go
pcardaww
pcarddoh
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineCOBOL and Slices

Who is Spartacus?

Display

Su-Shee(I'm not huskypaw. I swear... :)
dngorMe neither. I'm also not Spartacus.
* rindolfis Spartacus.
* rindolfjust is.
rindolfI have E-mail again, too.
fizztpokI think you're a figment of my imagination.
rindolffizztpok: I'm still Spartacus.
mstfizztpok: out of all the possible people that could exist you imagined *rindolf* ?!
rindolfmst: LOL.
rindolfmst++
stunixyay, I found my Perl-tshirt.
rindolfstunix: pics, please.
stunix#!/usr/bin/perl -w
stunixuse strict;
rindolfstunix: don't flood.
stunixwith the camel on the back.
stunixrindolf: I'm not flooding.
mststunix: -w is out of date.
mststunix: you need a new T-shirt :)
Khisanthfizztpok: now I have to go and kill you ...
annot-shirt update
rindolfKhisanth: :-)
stunixmst: I don't use "-w" myself, but I use strict;
stunix:)
mststunix: use strict; use warnings;
* rindolfis a figment of #perl's collective imagination.
Khisanthrindolf was too far away but you seem to be on the same continent at least
mstrindolf: now that I could believe.
fizztpokhaha
fizztpokthere's a name for this
fizztpokI saw a wikipedia article on it
fizztpokthe belief that the universe is your mind's creation
maukesolipsism
annocan't be disproved
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineSpartacus and T-shirts

VXZ Trolling on #perl

Display

VXZGreeting all. How do I get this script working with mirc? I want it to take over the network and serve warez. I found it in some random dark corner of the web from 1998 and I don't want to learn perl to fix it. Also, why aren't my php regexes working on html? Oh crap my parents are home.
Altreus:3
Altreusyou've been here before, I can tell
f00li5hVXZ: I want to ban you, but it's too grand a troll ... i have to admire it for a time
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineVXZ Trolling on #perl

The Evil Overlords of #perl

Display

nanonymebamccaig_, yeah. Then you can look at Try::Tiny like preaction said and treat DBI's deaths as exceptions. Or use eval {}. preaction said Try::Tiny is cleaner and I guess I'm gonna trust him on that.
preactionHA HA HA THAT WAS YOUR FIRST MISTAKE!
nanonyme;)
nanonymepreaction, the second is not noticing you completely rewrite Try::Tiny so my computer blows up? :P
preactionnanonyme: no, it's letting me build my atomic supermen so that i can win at basketball against the jesters of dunk, the Harlem Globetrotters
preactioni am no comic-book supervillian, my plans are even more convoluted! that means they're better and are sure to work! like George Clooney in Ocean's Eleven
* apeirondistributes copies of the evil overlord list
preactionwhat? where am i on this list? I demand a reissue!
preactionoh, wait, here i am. in the footnote "slightly less-evil overlords".
nanonymepreaction, underlords? :p
preaction#lessambitiousperlprogrammers
rindolfwonderlords.
pkruminspress button. get perl.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineThe evil overlords of #perl

Perl Ninjas, Pirates and Zombies

Display

alyx/w/w 55
alyx..fail
* apeirongives alyx an award for failing that so much
alyx\o/
* alyxhangs it up in the almighty fail closet
rindolfalyx: :-)
alyxrindolf: :D
Su-Shee55 chat windows are too much. ;)
Botjeamen!
BotjeI keep my irssi trimmed to < 30
Su-SheeI have 3. ;)
alyxBotje: o_o
alyxI have 56 windows atm, before I cleaned up a bit, I was at ~150. ._.
woldrichOne friend in each window, and you have 56 times more friends than me.
Su-Sheebah. I like to have real conversations and to really follow a handful of channels and that's it..
rindolfalyx: wow.
perlsyntaxIs there away i can look up my modules with cpan that i have installed?
perlsyntaxif i am right.
Su-Sheewow. facebook has a chat too.
DrForrperldoc -q installed
rindolfSu-Shee: you can use a Jabber client for that.
rindolfDrForr++
* pragma_gets annoyed when he exceeds 19 windows.
rindolfWe should create a #perl <-> StackOverflowish interface.
Su-Sheeafter gotten angry, I don't use my jabber stuff anymore as well ;)
apeironrindolf, Feel free to make a shitoverflow interface. Just don't put it here.
rindolfapeiron: :-)
apeironno, not :-)
apeironmore like /ban *!*@*
Su-Sheewho needs all those chats...
apeironPeople with very empty lives.
Su-Sheewell it fills empty windows.. ;)
Su-Sheeor, there's recently chat rockstars and chat ninjas.. ;)
Botjebut you don't /see/ chat ninjas!
Su-Sheethat's why I have so few channels.. no ninja chatting with me..
DrForrNot that you *know* of.
Botjehttp://www.nichtlustig.de/toondb/100701.html # relevant
candideTitle of Botje's link: NICHTLUSTIG
Su-Sheedamn. what if a ninja is asking me out and I don't get it because it's an invisible conversation?
Su-SheeBotje: harhar ;)
BotjeSu-Shee: if dinner suddenly appears you just married a ninja
Su-Sheein a secret, hidden ceremony?
Su-SheeBotje: was I there? how was I? ;)
pragma_Su-Shee: your inner ninja will detect it and go on the date, if you have one.
Su-Sheepragma_: ah. interesting. so I'll find myself suddenly in some ninja-restaurant and don't remember how I got there?
CaelumDrForr: mintty seems nice
CaelumDrForr: there's also puttycyg
DrForrIt is, but 3 days ina row I've hit that same key combo, and I can't reset it in the dialog box.
pragma_Su-Shee: no, your ninja will be there while your you remains oblivious
rindolfNinjas. :-)
pragma_This is why ninjas engage in rigorous 24/7 training of their ninjistu; so that they may be more in touch with their inner ninjas and be more aware of what it is doing.
Su-Sheepragma_: so I stay an idiot no matter what. ;)
pragma_your idiot remains an idiot forever, but you can train your non-idiot to overpower your idiot.
DrForrBut... shouldn't your inner ninja be hidden?
CaelumDrForr: KiTTy also has the PuttyCyg patch, and only needs the cthelper.exe from PuttyCyg
pragma_When you have attained true enlightenment of the ninja, then you too will become like the hidden tiger and will enjoy the pleasures of the crouching dragon.
DrForrwww.askainnerninja.com
Su-SheeI better not google pleasures of the crouching dragon..
Su-SheeDrForr: No match for "ASKAINNERNINJA.COM".
Su-SheeDrForr: go ahead ;)
mstwhould be ask -an- inner ninja.
Su-Sheealso no match ;)
Su-Shee*lol* askdrninja.com is taken ;)
Botjethere's also drmcninja
Su-Sheewell we could always chose to go down the rockstar path...
Su-Sheechoose.
rindolfWe should become Perl pirates. Arrrrrrrrrr!
* alyxhands rindolf an eyepatch
rindolfUnleash your inner bucaneer.
rindolf"I'm Guybrush Threepwood. Mighty Pirate."
apeironYeah, I've been doing that for ages.
Su-Shee.oO(johnny depp.. hm.. ;)
rindolfAnd Keira Knightly.
woldrichWhat does '.oO' mean?
rindolfwoldrich: saying something.
rindolfLike a talk balloon.
rindolfMaybe a thought balloon?
pragma_. o ( This is a thought balloon. )
woldrichoh. I'm too old for this shit
rindolfwoldrich: it doesn't matter as long as you're young at heart.
rindolfAnd there are no young Perl programmers. ;-)
* pragma_prefers his heart matured and fortified.
rindolfAs "Perl is dead."
* Caelumprefers his hearts barbecued
rindolfWell, that wasn't very funny.
Su-SheeI wouldn't really call mst "old" ;)
BinGOszombie perl
rindolfSu-Shee: I know a Perl programmer who's now a university freshman.
* apeironsends zombie kindergarteners after rindolf
Su-Sheewell dr dobbs agrees.
rindolfKnew him since he was in Junior high.
rindolfapeiron: :-)
BinGOsperl eats your brains.
* rindolftrains the zombie kindergarteners to be mighty Perl zombie pirates!
pragma_I've always been annoyed by the lack of zombie children running around in Left4Dead, et al.
rindolfmighty*
Botjepragma_: shooting kids is bad mmkay
pragma_At least Dead Space 2 has mutant baby toddlers you can stomp like fattened mosquitos.
Khisanthbut these would be dead kids
apeironundead
apeironvery important distinction!
Khisanthhmm well really neither, just bags of disease
rindolfPerl vampires!
* pragma_would rather be a werewolf.
apeironKhisanth, every source I've read says zombies are undead. so there.
* rindolfshoots pragma_ with the silver bullet.
Khisanththe l4d ones aren't really zombies :)
Botjethey're more like 28 days later-style zombies
apeironeh, modern games get everything wrong.
woldrichThat girl in Resident Evil is cute.
* Su-Sheerecommends "the walking dead"
pragma_L4D, Resident Evil, Dead Space -- these are all "zombies" despite however they came to be such!
Botjeyes, walking dead is <3
CaelumI haven't seen the new resident evil movie yet, was it good?
woldrichoh yes
Botjeit had milla shooting stuff
Botjewhat more do you want?
pragma_I was thinking of the Resident Evil 5 video game actually
KhisanthBotje: multiple millas shooting stuff?
pragma_System Shock
apeironplot. thought-provoking themes.
woldrichkhisanth++
Botjepragma_++ # yes!
pragma_System Shock 2
Botjemy first-born for a system shock movie
Botje(done decently, that is)
* f00li5hnuzzles Botje
Su-SheeBotje: since when do you have a firstborn?
Botjeaagh! zomb.. oh. hi kit!
BotjeSu-Shee: i will have!
KhisanthBotje: probably won't be done nicely :P
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglinePerl Ninjas, Pirates and Zombies

Digits in Variable Names

Display

jimwhich perldoc for doin stuff with arrays? want to copy all but first of one array to another
DrForrperldoc perldsc
DrForrOr just (undef,@new) = @old;
rindolfAlso $old[1..$#old]
DrForrOf course TIMTOWTDI...
rindolfWell, @old[1..$#old]
rindolfI think in perl 6 you can do @old[1..*-1]
jim@a2 = @a1[1..$#a1]?
jimnot perl6in yet
rindolfjim: yes, but with different names.
rindolfjim: else you want an array or a hash of arrays.
rindolfperlbot: varvarname
perlbotrindolf: Why it's stupid to `use a variable as a variable name' - http://perl.plover.com/varvarname.html
jimwait, are you sure mine is wrong?
rindolfjim: it's not wrong per-ce, just a red flag.
jimwhat's the flag?
rindolfjim: varvarname.
jimnote I said @a->2<- = ...
rindolfjim: well, it's like doing my ($x1,$x2,$x3,$x4...) - better use an array.
rindolfAssuming you want that.
rindolfYes, what is the difference between @a2 and @a1? What is their significance?
jim@a1 is a complete list of phone numbers, @a2 is a list of phone numbers not yet uploaded to the phone
thrig@phone_numbers!
jimit's like that in the code
thrigoh, okay
jimI'm just not typin that crap into the irc window as irc isn't the most wonderful medium for posting code
jimbelieve me, my variable names from 20 years ago tell me what they are for
thrigvar_name_from_20_years_ago_you_re_still_not_taking_out_the_damn_trash
jimI'm not necessarily at liberty to specify exactly what I'm doing
jimeven tho I did so in this case
thrigotherwise the mafia arranges a boaking accident?
mfontaniworse; nobody expects the spanish inquisition!
rindolfI'm going crazy without buubot.
rindolfWhere is he and buu?
jimwell the way you're acting doesn't exactly induce the greatest amount of openness
rindolfjim: I apologise.
rindolfjim: we may have erred in this.
jimohman, buubot is gone>?
rindolfjim: yes!
rindolfjim: for the time being.
rindolfDon't know where buu is.
jimthat's been one useful bot
mfontanieval: @a=1..4; (undef,@b)=@a; \@b
perlbotmfontani: [2,3,4]
DrForrjim: You've got several answers already. Do they not satisfy?
rindolfperlbot: define boaking
perlbotrindolf: No factoid found. Did you mean one of these: [debian perldoc] [define vrby : vrby]
rindolfjim: I think simcop has put the buubot code on github or something like that.
rindolfWell, good night @everyone.
rindolfAn array .
jimDrForr: they do... it's all this stuff afterwards that has me closing, "spanish inquisition", "mafia breakaleg"... it's just unnecessary
jimrindolf: thanks
rindolfjim: well, we sometimes enjoy having fun.
DrForrShrug. You're the one that brought up "may not be at liberty..."
rindolfjim: seems like thrig's main function, aside from being the benevolent dictator of #perl, is to interject short jokes.
thrigI make jokes about tall people, too
simcop2387rindolf: yea i have
rindolfthrig: :-)
simcop2387perlbot: source
perlbotsimcop2387: check out my insides (i'm based off buubot, so ask him for his source if you really want to start); http://github.com/simcop2387/perlbuut/ or go to http://github.com/simcop2387/buubot/
rindolfWe can have notbuubot or buubot2 or something.
rindolfWell, buubot2 is varvarname.
rindolf;-)
thrigit's not going to be @buubot
rindolfthrig: LOL.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineDigits in Variable Names

When to use XML and Popcorn?

Display

designerjeanhttp://scsys.co.uk:8002/87521
designerjeani know i'm not supposed to be using XML::Simple
designerjeanbut it's only one statement in the program
rindolfdesignerjean: is it causing problems?
mstyes, and it's the one that makes the $config you can't work out how to use
designerjeanmaybe
rindolfmst: :-)
mstyour exact problem is "unable to use the results of XML::Simple"
mstbecause you're stupid and XML::Simple is shit
mstplease switch to XML::Twig
designerjeanok thanks
dhosspeople still use xml?
rindolfdhoss: it's a dirty job, but it pays.
dhossi guess there's that
designerjeananother case of stupid youth
dhossdesignerjean: how old are you
rindolfdhoss: well, I'm using XML for some stuff willingly.
rindolfdhoss: JSON wouldn't have been usable.
dhossrindolf: i guess that's a legit reason
rindolfBecause I use them for text and stuff like that.
rindolfAnd it's hard to do something like <p>Hello <b>dhoss</b>!</p> in JSON.
rokotekoI think its mainly amongst web programmers where JSON is appreciated the most.
rindolfrokoteko: JSON has many valid uses.
DuClareXML has none
LeoNerdXML is for putting attribute markup within a stream of text.
dhossrindolf: yea i can see that. json is more useful in a cross language barrier bit where markup isn't needed
LeoNerd(mostly because it came out of SGML)
rindolfDuClare: not true.
rokotekoXML is very widely used. that's like saying "I dont need to know Java, because the language sucks" ..
Su-Sheerindolf: you're mixing semantics with style here anyways. that would be bad xml.
rindolfSu-Shee: I was giving an illustrative example.
Su-Sheerindolf: then give a proper one. that was exactly how NOT to XML.
rindolfSu-Shee: besides , I think that <b> has some valid, semantic meaning.
rindolfAnd it's also shorter than <strong></strong>
rindolfSu-Shee: ok.
Su-Sheerindolf: no. bold doesn't mean "be bold and courageous here". it means "print this shit in bold typeface"
rindolf<p>Hello <name>Su-Shee</name>!</p>
rindolfXML is useful for wrapping and annotating text.
DorwardXML is only useful for wrapping and annotating text if you use a properly designed application of XML and everyone reading the document agrees on what the meaning is.
rokotekoXTML vs XDML could derive from XML. (text and data respectively). then of course you should be able to embed XDML in XTML.
rokotekooh wait. Im thinkin aloud.
rindolfrokoteko: I've recently played with an XML-specific compression tool.
rindolfrokoteko: it achieved better compression than xz -9 --extreme but OTOH mishandled some «"» not inside attributes - converting them to &quot;
rokotekorindolf: what requirements are you trying to meet by compressing xml?
PerlJamsmaller XML docs :)
rindolfrokoteko: well, to reduce the size.
rokotekowell, doh. but why?
rindolfrokoteko: like over the Net, etc.
rindolfrokoteko: it's like gzip compression/decompression.
rokotekorindolf: I yet fail to see the point. :(
rindolfOnly domain-specific.
rokotekowhy?
rindolfAnd if you have a lot of it it occupies less on the hard disk.
rokotekoAh. you have like SHITLOADS of XML ?
rindolfIt could happen.
rindolfJava...
PerlJamanyone who deals with XML probably has that much ;)
rokotekoWell, disk is pretty cheap.
rindolfI don't have too much XML.
rindolfWell, maybe a lot of XHTML.
rokotekoI was just curious about rindolf's use case.
rokotekoI was afraid that he was storing some binary data in XML. :)
mstI think he was just experimenting with technology
rindolfYes, I probably have more disk wasted on .mp3's and .flv's.
rindolfrokoteko: I have some interest in compression methods.
rindolfrokoteko: back from high school.
rokotekorindolf: :)
Su-Sheeif you're the company who's transferring 120 years of documents of a car company into something flexible - THEN you have a shitload of XML.
rindolfThere have been some recent advancements.
rokotekoSo just out of curiousity, that's fine with me. :) Im just nosy sometimes.
rindolfrokoteko: I think the wikipedia XML dump is pretty large.
mstI find it's usually safe to assume that whatver rindolf's doing, there isn't a good reason for it.
rindolfrokoteko: there was some stuff about processing it quickly using Perl, etc.
rindolfmst: :-)
rindolfmst++ # Nice burn.
Su-Sheepopcorn anyone? ;)
rindolfmst: but it has a huge grain of truth in it I admit.
rindolfSu-Shee: microwave popcorn?
Su-SheeI don't have a microwave and I was being sarcastic...
Su-SheeI need a smiley for that.
rindolfSu-Shee: ah.
Su-Sheerindolf-shaped, obviously.
rindolfSu-Shee: yes, I was playing along.
petn-randallwhy not an XML-conform </sarcasm> ?
* rindolfprepares some popcorn and shares it with Su-Shee using the Popcorn-over-IRC protocol.
DrForrWhat's this about burnt popcorn?
rindolfPopcorn-over-IRC also preserves the butter taste.
burnedceleryyou're getting my keyboard all greasy
apeironew, butter
rindolfAnd it also supports multicasting popcorn.
PerlJambutter++
PerlJamthough not so much butter that it makest he popcorn soggy. I hate that.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineXML and Popcorn

The Ultimate Goal of One's Programming

Display

rp21i think i'm too critical to be a programmer ...
rindolfrp21: do you mean you're too perfectionist?
Su-Sheeyeah sure. there's something like "too good code".
rindolfSu-Shee: print "Hello World!\n"; - that's good code.
rindolfOr maybe say "Hello World!";
rindolfCan't be improved.
rp21hey, why did my nick change?
rp2yes it may be perfectionism
rindolfrp2: ah, sucks.
rp2eg i want to get all columns from a database table in Perl
rp2now my problem is that i want to write code that works wuith a variety of databases and both on windows and linux
rp2it seems that as soon as i have found a way to overcome a particular restriction, i mentally add another and spend my time trying to overcome that too, sometimes losing track of the reason i started the script
rindolfrp2: heh.
rp2if i were a better programmer i'd get through the hurdles quicker and end up with solvesworldhunger.pl
rp2except that i'd probably finish Perl 7 to write it in first
rindolfrp2: well, some of my programs outgrow their original purpose too.
rindolfrp2: :-D
rp2except that it'd never get finished because i'd first fix the OSes it's supposed to run on,
rp2etc etc
rp2raaaah!
rindolfrp2: you should hire Chuck Norris.
rp2yes
rindolfChuck Norris can end world hunger, but he thinks that hungry people make humanity a more challenging adversary.
rindolfIf everyone had enough to eat, it would be too easy for him.
rindolf;-)
minoChuck Norris also writes understandable perl code... *scnr*
rindolfmino: LOL.
rindolfmino: Chuck Norris can read Perl code that was RSA encrypted.
minorindolf: is there any difference to unencrypted one? :P
rindolfmino: not to Chuck.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineSolving World Hunger using Perl

CPAN Module Namer in Distress

Display

LeoNerdSu-Shee: http://scsys.co.uk:8002/91935 <== see if that runs
LeoNerdThat's my "static" demo
rindolfLeoNerd: what is Tickit?
LeoNerdHeh...
LeoNerdTerminal Interface Construction KIT
Su-Sheerindolf: a terminal application's widget set
LeoNerdThink "GTK" for terminals
rindolfSu-Shee: ah.
rindolfLeoNerd: like Curses::UI?
rindolfOnly better, perhaps?
LeoNerdSortof, only not using Curses. :)
rindolfLeoNerd: ah.
Su-Sheeok, first I need food.
rindolfInteresting.
LeoNerdAlso, I'm not that familiar with Curses::UI but I didn't think it was widget-based..?
Su-SheeLeoNerd: I have this example open.
rindolfI think Tickit is not too good a name either.
LeoNerdWell. *shrug*
* rindolfemails some Shawarma to Su-Shee.
Su-Sheerindolf: did we ask to judge the name? ;)
LeoNerdrindolf: If you want to judge all my naming you can respond to all my blog posts tagged "module naming"
rindolfMake sure you uncompress it or you won't be able to eat it. :-)
LeoNerdAnd then if people complain I'll send them your way
rindolfLeoNerd: ah, my blogs aggregator is off.
LeoNerdhttp://leonerds-code.blogspot.com/search/label/module%20naming
rindolfLeoNerd: so we can form the "People unhappy with LeoNerd's names support group"?
LeoNerdYou can if you like.. I'm not. :)
rindolf"Hi! My name is rindolf and I think LeoNerd picks up awful names for his modules." "Hello rindolf! We all love you!"
rindolfLOL.
Su-SheeJESUS WHO CARES HOW A WIDGET SET IS CALLED?!
LeoNerdIndeed..
Su-SheeLeoNerd: name the next one pink fluffy bunny.
rindolfSu-Shee: THE NAME IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING!111
LeoNerdHell, we have a popular OO framework named after a large Swedish animal with antlers on
rindolfWould you use Linux if it was called 386BSD?
rindolfOK, it could be much worse.
Su-SheeLeoNerd: well so the name of a Moose based (there already was a Moose before Perl's Moose by Smalltalk, btw..) widget set will be Ikea.
* __srionly uses operating systems that have been named after big cats
rindolfSu-Shee: that may infringe on a trademark.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineWhat's in a name?

How Much Infinity do you need?

Display

Altreusrindolf: you can make a processor in minecraft yes
rindolfAltreus: ah, OK.
Altreusa computer in a computer
rindolfLet's write a Perl->Mincraft compiler.
Altreusvery meta
rindolfImplementing a Turing complete interpreter inside a VM is not hard.
rindolfvi keystrokes (not vimscript) are also Turing complete.
rindolfAs is the Game of Life and infinite Minesweeper
jetterorindolf: I can almost imagine GoL, but how is minesweeper going to be turing complete?
Altreusnuts
Altreusthat always worked for me
Altreusmaybe you have to log in at least once
woldrichbah
rindolfjettero: http://web.mat.bham.ac.uk/R.W.Kaye/minesw/
rindolfjettero: I have not read the paper.
rindolfjettero: of course, true Turing completeness is only possible with infinite memory.
LeoNerdAh OK
* f00li5hhands rindolf an infinite hotel, and books every even room
rindolff00li5h: :-)
* rindolfbooks every odd room that is divided by three.
rindolff00li5h: is it א_0, א_1 or something more infinite?
f00li5hit's as infinite as it can be!
rindolff00li5h: ah, good.
rindolff00li5h: then I can book room pi.
rindolfOr sqrt(2).
f00li5hyou sure can.
rindolfNice.
f00li5hbut you might like something a little more spacious
rindolfAh.
f00li5hlike the rooms between 1 and 2
rindolfWhich room do you recommend?
rindolfAh.
j_wrightwhat about sqrt(-1)?
f00li5hplenty of space there
f00li5hj_wright: that room's popular, i'd imagine it's booked
f00li5hthe biggest problem is aloting extensions on the room phones
Altreusmy infinite hotel's rooms have two numbers each, being a point on the complex plane
Altreusit increases address lookup time
Altreusalso the hotel happens to be all one floor so that helps
j_wrightso they get two sets of addresses?
j_wrightpolar too
f00li5htake the ⧜th left, and then head down ∞th right
Altreusno just one
Altreuseach room is unique
j_wrightor turn n degrees and go m forward
Altreusoh yes I suppose you could map their addresses to a new coordinate space but that's true of any plane with a landmark
Altreusthe car park is at 0,i fyi
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineThe Inifinite Hotel

Perl Shrinks

Display

Su-Sheemst: would you like to talk about your problems now too? PerlJam? How's your marriage? Anyone recently went alcoholic? Also, would you all like to know how about my father? ;)
maukeuse less qw(acid);
* PerlJamhugs Su-Shee ... a little too tightly.
tm604less acid | more perl
Su-SheePerlJam: for sarcasm? ;) that's new :)
PerlJamSu-Shee: It's the #perl6 in me. ETOOMANYHUGS :)
Su-SheePerlJam: HARHAR :)
rindolfSu-Shee: heh.
rindolfSu-Shee++ # good burn.
rindolfSu-Shrink.
rindolfSu-Shee: your nick has multiple hidden meanings.
rindolfSu-Shee: will you sell it for 3 oz. of gold?
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineSu-Shrink

How Can I Switch off the T.V. - #perl style

Display

(This bit was posted anonymously to a pastebot on 23 March, 2011. It is placed here for posterity after some editing.)

Question: how can I switch off my TV?

What he wants to hear? For example: Locate on/off button your TV remote a press it. The button is usually red and located at the topmost line on the remote.

The #perl expert's answer: First, what do you mean with "switch off"? Define it first. Nopaste your TV, TV remote and the living room too.

After a nopaste:

Your room is ugly. And the TV looks terrible. Use Mr. Clean on the screen and clean your living room first. Use three cleaning mops instead of two. Use HDMI and never use scart (?) connectors, unless you really want to. Your TV remote has unreadable buttons, clean up first. You're a beginner, so read:

IRC guest: But, i don't want be a TV expert.

Answer: Why do you want to switch the TV on then?!

AuthorAnonymous
WorkPastebin Paste

Cats in Soviet Russia

Display

rindolfMithaldu: I think most contemporary T.V. kinda sucks.
rindolfMithaldu: it seems very phony.
Mithaldurindolf: same, i haven't actually switched on my tv in five years
rindolfI prefer a YouTube video of a kitten riding on a turtle.
rindolfMithaldu: :-)
Mithaldu:D
rindolfMithaldu: yes.
rindolfMithaldu: there is one, BTW.
Mithalduoh i do not doubt that
rindolfDon't know if it's authentic.
rindolfI saw a friendly cat today, and he purred after I scratched his head.
rindolfI like Friendly cats.
rindolfI think lolcats are very subversive.
rindolfOr were.
rindolf"Ceiling cat is watching you"
Mithalducats are the definition of subversive
Mithalduthey adopt you
rindolfMithaldu: heh.
rindolfIn Soviet Russia, cats own you!
rindolfIn Soviet Russia, cats are your master!
rindolfWell, in Soviet Russia and everywhere.
kent\nrindolf: you got it backwards.
kent\nIn soviet russia, cats are actually your pets.
Mithalduhahaha
rindolfkent\n: heh.
rindolfkent\n++
rindolfI feel better now.
rindolfEmpowered but calm.
rindolfThanks to the cats jokes.
Mithalduworld healing by cat jokes
rindolfHopefully, I'll sleep well tonight.
kent\nNext on the agenda. DICK JOKES!
rindolfMithaldu: cats are good for healing I think.
rindolfkent\n: NO!!!!!
kent\n( don't worry, this won't take long )
Mithalduyes, as long as you do not own cables
Mithaldukent\n: you mean it won't BE very long
Mithalduhurr hurr
rindolfkent\n: I've got 99 problems but kent\n ain't one.
kent\n;)
Channel#perl-cats
NetworkFreenode
TaglineCats in Soviet Russia

Violent Cats and Astrology

Display

* f00li5hpaws at apeiron
* WinstonSmithhisses at f00li5h
* f00li5hpounces on that WinstonSmith critter
* WinstonSmithscratches that f00li5h and hides under the sofa
* Su-Sheegets a bucket of cold water.
* WinstonSmithmeows at f00li5h quickly before Su-Shee comes with that water
* Khisanthblasts WinstonSmith with a firehose
WinstonSmithgarbl grbl garblll
* apeironshakes fist at 'variable length lookbehind not supported'
* apeironalso shakes fist at $CLIENT speccing against a regex a stupid jquery dev wrote instead of the well-tested module
Khisanthyou can change it into (?: | | | ) in at least some cases
* WinstonSmithjumps on top of the wardrobe, dries himself and glares menacingly at Khisanth
apeironTHIS IS WHY WE USE THE MODULES, DAMNIT, BECAUSE APEIRON SUCKS AT REGEX
apeironTHIS IS ALSO WHY APEIRON SUCKS AT REGEX
LeoNerdIS THIS WHY WE ARE SHOUTING?
* Khisanthgrabs an apeiron and throws it at WinstonSmith
apeironI get shouty when $CLIENTs spec stupidity.
apeiron@CLIENT? $CLIENTs?
Khisanthgot shout at client then :)
* WinstonSmithnuzzles apeiron to calm him down
apeironWinstonSmith, that doesn't remove the stupidity from the spec.=\
WinstonSmithapeiron, maybe the stupidity is in $CLIENT ?
apeironyes, I know that.
* WinstonSmithconsiders the nuzzling having effect - he disabled the caps key ; -)
* apeironjust shouts into loudbot
rindolfCat violence!
rindolfFelix Felini Lupus est!
WinstonSmithfelix perlus aggressivus!
rindolfWinstonSmith: Latin!
WinstonSmithrindolf, pseudo!
rindolfWinstonSmith: yes, true. Mock-Latin.
WinstonSmithah so you have pseudo in english?
rindolfHow do you say "A cat to a cat is a wolf" in Latin?
rindolfWinstonSmith: there is pseudo there.
SpiceWorkleo ripanus !
rindolfSpiceWork: what does that mean?
rindolfLeo is lion, right?
WinstonSmithleo is the king
SpiceWorkno idea. a wine I loved, but year that followed sucked.
rindolfLeoNerd.
ne2kleonidas
SpiceWork*the year that
LeoNerdCorrect
rindolf/nick TauNerd
rindolf/nick TaurusNerd
SpiceWorkeuropean wine quality varies too much :\
LeoNerdHehe.. I could go through all the zodiac signs :)
LeoNerd/nick CapricornNerd
apeironLeoNerd, /nick FishNerd?
apeironSomehow that doesn't have the same ring to it...
LeoNerdPices surely?
apeironPisces.
LeoNerdEr, yes.. them :)
rindolfI don't believe in Astrology because I'm a Taurus and Tauri never believe in Astrology.
rindolf</old-joke>
Simplicity...Lol.
* Su-Sheeis a Leo-Shee.
rindolfSu-Shee: ah, you're a Leo too?
SimplicityI don't exactly /follow/ Astrology, but I believe some horoscopes hit spot on.
apeironThey're vague enough to apply to anyone.
rindolfSimplicity: there was something about a survey where people read the Astrological forecast either before or after the week, and those that read it aferwards said it did not happen to them.
Su-Sheewell I choose only the good one and manipulate the day accordingly ;)
SimplicityHeh
WinstonSmithSu-Shee++
SpiceWorkI was really dissapointed on how superstitious japanese people are at first. then I stopped idiolzing them :p
Su-Sheebut I'm a firm believer in compenent manipulation anyways ;)
Simplicityapeiron: I didn't want to go there as to not offend any possible believers.
LeoNerdI find them interesting. Usually they're completely off the mark, but just occasionally they give me something interesting to think about, something to focus my mind on.. reminding me something I sortof knew anyway
apeironSimplicity, If people can't tolerate the truth, they shouldn't be on the internet. :)
WinstonSmithapeiron, omg there is truth on the internetz?
apeironyes!
SimplicityWinstonSmith: Everything you read on the Internet is true!
* WinstonSmithdouble-facepalms
WinstonSmithi knew all that stuff about the lizard people could'nt be a lie
* WinstonSmithnotches the paranoia up
SimplicityWinstonSmith: The only "lizard people" I have ever heard about is the Illuminati.
WinstonSmithSimplicity, well Cheney was on of them ;-)
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineNobody heard of Perlian cats

Paid version of CPAN

Display

elb0w`Let’s start a paid version of cpan
elb0w`same exact modules
elb0w`but charge for them
elb0w`add Pro:: namespace
apeironno, Enterprise::
elb0w`haha yes
jdv79the longer the better
mauke402 Payment required
elb0w`more offical
winmuttDrmauke
DrForrThat site just sets off alarm bells here.
rindolfCPAY
winmuttthe fact that any code is obfuscated greately bring into question the quality of it
winmuttbase64 or otherwise
elb0w`the funny thing is that if this was real I bet some firms would use it
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineThere's no such thing as a free download.

Whitespace in Python

Display

sizzwhitespace in python is not a problem, just lay out all the whitespace first, then add the code around it
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineWhitespace in Python

Interesting vs. Successful

Display

There's a negative correlation between “interesting” and “successful”.

AuthorAnno on Freenode's #perl

Sweat

Display

cl0udglorious meeting this morning
rindolfcl0ud: hi.
* rindolfcl0ud
* cl0udrindolf
rindolfcl0ud: sup?
cl0udchillin
rindolfcl0ud: yes, it is chilly here.
* rindolfmoves his services to the cl0ud
cl0udwe live in a cloud world
railbait_liteSo, loudbot has 10k tweets
railbait_litePratty sweat
rindolfrailbait_lite: sweet?
railbait_liteYeah
rindolfGotta make you sweat.
railbait_litehaha
railbait_liteYeah meant to make it sound weird
railbait_liteThus the "pretty" misspelling as well
rindolfSweat Beat.
rindolfLike Lemon Demon.
railbait_litehaha
rindolfloudbot: TWITTER ALL THE WAY UP!
loudbotrindolf: GOOGLE BROKE YOUTUBE, EVERYONE REJOICE
Channel#perlcafe
NetworkFreenode
TaglineSweat

Round Numbers

Display

hemanthmeow!
rindolfhemanth: meow.
rindolfhemanth: still no IRC at work?
hemanthnope :/
rindolfhemanth: did you talk with the sys-admins?
hemanthrindolf: it seems more like freenode have blocked the IP
hemanthhang on
hemanth"You are banned from this server- Temporary K-line 6000 min. - Please do not harass users on freenode. If in error, please contact mailto:kline@freenode.net. Thanks! (2011/11/1 06.24)"
rindolfhemanth: ah.
simcop2387hemanth: what did you do?
LeoNerd6000 minutes. 100 hours.
LeoNerd4 days 4 hours. A weird number
simcop2387farnsworth: 6000 minutes -> days
farnsworthsimcop2387: (25/6 /* apx (4.16666666666666) */)
hemanthheh heh
simcop2387LeoNerd: i think it was entirely because 100 hours is a "round number"
Altreus0, 6, 8, 9 are round numbers
AltreusThe rest are a bit pointy
Altreusmaybe sometimes a 3 depending on font
Altreusbut it still has a pointy bit
rindolfAltreus: heh.
rindolfAltreus: actually, they are round digits.
Altreusbah, you win
simcop23871 isn't round
Channel#perl-cats
NetworkFreenode
TaglineRound Numbers

Negative Lookbehinds

Display

GordonFreemanhi
rindolfHi GordonFreeman
GordonFreemangrep -Po '(?<=<a )(?<! href=)(?<= href=["]*)[^">]+' <<< '<a gfasg href=asdf>'
GordonFreemangrep: lookbehind assertion is not fixed length
rindolfGordonFreeman: grep is PCRE - it's not Perl.
rindolfperlbot: pcre
AltreusGordonFreeman: don't use regex for HTML
perlbotrindolf: PCRE is not Perl. It lacks several features of Perl regexes. Don't bother asking for help with a PCRE pattern in a Perl channel as the answers will not be relevant. Try #regex, or the channel for your language. See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCRE#Differences_from_Perl and LPBD.
GordonFreemanbut this should work i think.
maukeno, it shouldn't
GordonFreemanthough it fails at the second lookbehind ...
maukeno, it doesn't
GordonFreemanand fails at "* too
GordonFreeman(grep -Po '<a +.* +href="*[^" >]+' | grep -Po '(?=<a ).*' | grep -Po '(?<= href=)["]*[^" >]+') <<< '<a gfasg href=asdf><a fgfgg="hi> " href="link" >'
GordonFreemanthis works.
maukeGordonFreeman: dude.
annodon't paste!
GordonFreemanhi mauke
apeironwhere's mauke's car?
rindolfapeiron: :-)
maukeit's a cdr
AltreusI watched that the other day
rindolfpkrumins: what's up?
AltreusI don't really know why
maukeGordonFreeman: go to a channel where that is on-topic
GordonFreemanmauke<< like?
maukeno idea
Altreuswhere on earth is parsing HTML with regexes on topic?
GordonFreemanaham ok
Altreusexcept ##php lolol
GordonFreemanwell i think one can see its logical and it works like this
rindolfGordonFreeman: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1732348/regex-match-open-tags-except-xhtml-self-contained-tags/1732454#1732454
shortenrindolf's url is at http://xrl.us/bf4jh6
apeironGordonFreeman, also, -P isn't perl.
thrigAltreus: some special level of hell, between the angry ghosts and the hungry ghosts
rindolfperlbot: html
apeironthe grep docs lie to you.
perlbotrindolf: Don't parse or modify html with regular expressions! See one of HTML::Parser's subclasses: HTML::TokeParser, HTML::TokeParser::Simple, HTML::TreeBuilder(::Xpath)?, HTML::TableExtract etc. If your response begins "that's overkill. i only want to..." you are wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chomsky_hierarchy and http://xrl.us/bf4jh6 for why not to use regex on HTML
LeoNerdAltreus: Why, surely in #html-parsing-by-regexp
Altreusif you want perl regex use ack
Altreussurely
rindolfLeoNerd: sounds like programmers' hell.
annoperl regex doesn't support variable-length lookbehind either
Altreusapeiron: actually it says it's highly experimental and hence not working
Altreusit could well be Perl and not PCRE when finished :)
Altreusnot that "perl regex" is a defined term, the speed Perl is moving
yrlnryThat's why you should never use Perl's builtin regexes. Just write your own package, it's sure to be more reliable.
rindolfyrlnry: :-)
talexbHeh.
LeoNerduse re::engine::vim;
rindolfyrlnry++
AltreusLeoNerd: is it core?
yrlnryHOP has a nice implementation. It works by generating a list of every string matched by the regex, and looking to see if your target string is in the list.
LeoNerdI can't help thinking that may not be optimal in terms of CPU or memory usage
talexbyrlnry, no doubt they have a Cray working on generating the list ..
yrlnryLeoNerd: Depends; unlike Perl regexes, it has no trouble handling languages higher up the Chomsky hierarchy
yrlnryIt is guaranteed to return the right answer for any recursive language, and guaranteed to return correct 'matched' answers for any recursively enumerable language.
LeoNerdOhsure...
LeoNerdIn terms of CS guarantees it's very nice
yrlnrySo if you are in a big hurry to get the wrong answer...
LeoNerdBut I live in the practical pragmatic world
LeoNerdE.g. Parser::MGC is horribly slow at backtracking and whatnot, but I write parsers in it because those are still fast for "reasonably" sized inputs, parsers are fast to write, and I like having lots of side-effects and dynamic logic -in- Perl
AltreusUnfortunately my universe doesn't have infinite processing speeds and data storage
annoa universe with infinite processing speed would have processed you by now
Altreusand
Altreuswould have processed my grandchildren too
yrlnryThis algorithm doesn' t need infinite speed or storage.
yrlnryIt works slowly, but finitely.
Altreuswhat
yrlnryThe infinite list is lazily generated and you never have more than one of its elements in memory at any time.
rindolfyrlnry: is it sorted by length?
yrlnryYou will learn this sort of technique after you have been programming in Perl for eight months or so.
Altreushow do you know when it doesn't match
Altreusyrlnry: :D
yrlnryrindolf: it is sorted by length, and lexicographically among strings of the same length.
rindolfyrlnry: ah.
yrlnryOf course, you cannot do the length-sorting thing for arbitrary languages, but for regex languages there is no trouble.
yrlnryhttp://hop.perl.plover.com/book/pdf/06InfiniteStreams.pdf
LeoNerdEh..
LeoNerdI dunno. I just dislike purely RE-based parsing
LeoNerdI much prefer code doing it
GordonFreemanwhy can't perl regexp do variable length lookbehind matching?
AltreusSee originally I ignored you because it sounded like you were talking shit
LeoNerdLimit of the implementation
Altreusmainly because it is possible to construct a regex with an infinite range that nevertheless won't match a particular string
annoGordonFreeman: who knows? looks like it's hard to implement with the given engine
maukeGordonFreeman: unclear semantics and no one's bothered to write the code
GordonFreemani see
AltreusPlus, there's a fucking lot of unicode to create strings out of
LeoNerdIt's not "hard" to implement. It's impossible given the algorithm being used
maukeLeoNerd: why impossible?
yrlnryLeoNerd: I don't think that's true. It could be done using a recursive call to the regex engine now that that is possible.
GordonFreemanbut lookbehind is cool
LeoNerdOooh.. yes.. I suppose it could do that now
GordonFreemanits like a reverse regexp that can be excluded
annovim re's do it
LeoNerdvim uses a different type of engine
annoright
yrlnryAltreus: I was talking shit. After eight months you get a license to do that.
maukereally?
Altreusyrlnry: but there's a pdf
yrlnrywhere's a PDF?
Altreus17:10 < yrlnry> http://hop.perl.plover.com/book/pdf/06InfiniteStreams.pdf
yrlnryYes.
AltreusI didn't open it or anything
maukeno one opens pdfs
yrlnryPDFs are for cowards and Slavs.
Altreusbut it lent enough credence to your words that I decided to believe your spurious claims
AltreusActually someone did a test the other day
yrlnryOh, does "talking shit" mean "making up nonsense"? Then I was not talking shit.
AltreusHe linked someone to articles supporting his viewpoint and they changed their mind
yrlnryIt is in section 6.5, "regex string generation".
Altreusbut one of the articles was an argument against himself
AltreusShowing that it is enough to cite your sources to be believed; not many people will actually bother to check them
Altreusyrlnry: what do you normally think "talking shit" means?
Altreusare you confusing it with shooting the shit
yrlnryI'm not sure.
Altreusare you foreign
yrlnryYes.
Altreusok then
maukehahaha
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineNegative Lookbehind Regexes for matching HTML

Foreign Birds

Display

mocramisthough i installed IPC::RUN, i still get the Can't locate from perl
Botjeit's called IPC::Run, not IPC::RUN
rindolfmocramis: perl is case-sensitive.
mocramisarf ><
Altreusmeow
DrForr*chirp*
Su-Sheetschilp in german, btw.
DrForrCould be handy when talking with foreign birds :)
Su-SheeDrForr: absolutely. also: a german dog barks "wau" and a cat meows "miau"
rindolfSu-Shee: German animals are true German patriots.
DrForrNo relation to Miaowara Tomokato, I take it.
Su-SheeDrForr: no, although germany and japan of course had some relations ;)
BotjeSu-Shee: oh. that explains 'dr waumiau'
Altreusforeign birds speak the same as local birds
Su-SheeBotje: what's that? ;)
BotjeSu-Shee: german mash-up artist
Su-SheeBotje: now you know what his names means.
DrForrAltreus: Mine didn't :)
Altreusspeaking a foreign language is culturally insensitive
DrForr(she grew up speaking English and Japanese - Her new host family is coping well, all things considered)
Su-SheeDrForr: now I'm confused.. she -> bird, dog, ex-girlfriend, daughter?
DrForrBird with a multilingual daddy.
Altreussee I was disallowing DrForr the use of 'bird' as 'girl'
Altreusfor comic effect
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineWhat do foreign birds speak?

Brogramming

Display

jozefkanybody with suggestion how can I clean up the code in the way as this tool is doing it temporarily in browser? http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/7188/clean-up-webpages-for-note-taking-or-printing-the-easy-way/
rindolfjozefk: you can define a print stylesheet.
jozefkI want to clean the page from everything. not only to see it like that on screen but to really modify the code
rindolfjozefk: well, you can read what the bookmarklet is doing and emulate it.
jozefkI see the javascript code from bookmarklet but I think I can't modify real files on hard disk with javacript codes
jozefkand the code is more than 300 lines :)
tm604sure you can, js runs serverside happily enough, but it'd be just as easy to convert the JS logic to perl.
jozefkthat sounds like programing. I thought there is some tool like that bookmarklet which I can use to modify files on HDD
Altreustm604: except the JS runs on a DOM in a browser, with a browser context
tm604yes, it does sound a bit like programming, doesn't it? good thing this is a programming channel, so it's hopefully still on-topic.
AltreusI don't think there's a node module that will load an HTML file and create a browser context in which to then run JS on that HTML's DOM and output the result
jozefk:)
jozefkDOM is not so important here I think. because JS is removing everything from code and just applying another CSS
jozefkso the page looks different
tm604huh, thought there was. the script itself should be trivial to convert to perl either way.
Altreusprobably a better idea :)
jozefkyeah, better. one day when I become a programmer :) I will do it.
pkruminsI want to become a brogrammer
jozefkwhy?
Altreustaking pictures of bros
pkruminsSo I can do some awesome brogramming, jozefk!
jozefk:))
rindolfpkrumins: yo bro! I hurd you like brogramming so we put your bro in your brogram so you can brogram while you bro!
nate_hrofl
rindolfnate_h: :-)
nate_hshould it be brozefk ?
rindolfrinbrolf
rindolfpk-bro-mins
pkruminsrindolf: i put a browser in your browser
pkruminsrindolf: so you can browse while yo browse
rindolfpkrumins: bro, a browser is so 90s.
fizztpokbroser?
PerlJambowser
nate_hmushroom?
rindolfpkrumins: KDE-4.8.x-beta-something is coming to Mageia Linux 2/Cauldron. \o/
fizztpokI search on duckduckbro!
nate_hco-co-coommmboo breaker
rindolfpkrumins: I'll see how much it fixes and how much it breaks.
rindolfpkrumins: and fix what it breaks and break what it fixes.
rindolfTo preserve the balance in the force.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineI want to become a brogrammer.

Count von Counter

Display

ncowrindolf: is not { my $c=0; sub getNext { $c++ } } a perfectly good way to do a closure on a variable (that should not be seen by anything other than that sub, sort of like that PHP example with the "static" var <http://www.phpsadness.com/sad/18> and I think similar to static vars in C++ and Java) ?
rindolfncow: yes, it is.
urincow: you can use state vars in recent perls too
ncowbut I keep thinking there was a way of doing it with outer and inner subs too, or no
rindolfncow: thing is in sub outer { my $c = 0 ; .... } the $c is temporary.
ncowuri: yeah I just saw that in perlfaq7 just before you said that, thanks though :)
rindolfncow: which causes weird side-effects with a package-scope inner sub.
ncowrindolf: but shouldn't the inner sub have a closure over $c though?
rindolfncow: it will.
rindolfncow: but every time you call outer() you get a different $c.
apeironWindows also accepts a sledgehammer to the harddrive.
ncowrindolf: I'm talking about calling the inner one
ncowrindolf: could be interesting to call the outter one to re-prime or something (just kind of thinking aloud, I could be completely wrong)
ncow(please let me know if I am)
cjBotje: that's not the point. Some systems don't :)
rindolfapeiron: Windows requiring doing a SOAP request to a .NET service (that is very picky about its scope) to call an OLE component for writing an Excel macro to do that.
apeironAnd for those we have File::Spec.
rindolfapeiron: it's not as straightforward as in UNIX.
ncowI think I found a mis-type in perlfaq7 <http://perldoc.perl.org/perlfaq7.html#How-do-I-create-a-static-variable%3f>, under "How do I create a static variable?"
ncowIt says: sub counter { state $count = 1; $counter++ }
ncowI think that should be $count++ not $counter++
rindolfapeiron: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=joel-forum-unix-shooting-in-the-foot
rindolfncow: yes, it should.
rindolfncow: or "$state $counter = 1;".
ncowrindolf: oh shit, that is so true. I hate ActiveX like the mf-ing plauge
ncowrindolf: yes, though counter is the sub's name, I think the var was meant to be called $count
ncowas in the count that the counter counts :)
rindolfncow++
rindolfncow: it still exists in my github fork of the perl-doc-cats repo.
ncowa counter doesn't counter counters unless it is in fact a counter counter :)
urincow: go back to sesame street!
ncowlol
uriit seems to be where you learned your perl!
uriuse Big::Bird;
ncowbut does a counter counter count it self as a counter counter?
urithat is counterproductive thinking
ncow(or does it just consider itself a cunt and thus only count it self as a cunt counter since it only counts cunts?)
ncowok I think I'm done with that one...
ncowsorry, when ever someone mentions ActiveX it makes me all twichy, and if there is no one around to choke into submition, I tend to write odd things, like a ram memory discharge
Khisantha CounterCounterFactoryCounter
szrActiveX will do that
rindolfncow: heh.
rindolfncow++
ncowooooh now we're talking
rindolfncow: anyway, how do you want to be credited in the commit log?
uririndolf: call him the miscount
rindolfuri: heh.
ncowyou don't have to do that, but if you really want to, ncow is fine. Necrocow may be me old moniker (and freenode account name) but ncow is what I've been going by for quite a while now
rindolfuri: Count von Counter
ncowso I'm the count of miscountistu?
rindolfncow: pushed.
ncowcool
ncowglad I could help.
rindolfncow: you're welcome.
rindolf“One Perl One-Liner, Two Perl One-Liners, Three Perl One-Liners. <Thunder and Lightning> Ha ha ha ha ha ha.”
rindolf-- Count von Counter
ncowrindolf: haha
ncowrindolf: god I still remember that from when I was a kid watching PBS
rindolfncow: I remember it from the Israeli Sesame Street.
ncowIsraeli? didn't know they had their own version
rindolfncow: they call him there "Mar Soffer." - "Mr. Counting"
rindolfncow: we actually had two at two different times.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineHow many counts will a counter count if a counter could count counts?

Using your Experience Points

Display

federated_lifeholy fucking shnikes mst was right
mstfederated_life: you'll find that happens a lot.
mstfederated_life: every time I level, I put all my XP (= experience points) into "being right" rather than boring things like "tact" ;)
LeoNerdmst: Not ranged weapons?
komodohaha
LeoNerdGain enough XP and you actually -can- stab people over the Internet
komodosweet
komodoI wouldn't recommend stabbing PHP people though, I hear they bleed acid
annobring a blotter
komodogotta take 'em out from a distance
komodoah
KhisanthLeoNerd: do nukes count as ranged weapons? :)
LeoNerdI don't see why not
LeoNerdIf it's ballistically launched
Khisanthwell it's a bit more ... hmm how should I put it
tm604I'd stand well clear of anyone classing a nuke as a melee weapon.
mstLeoNerd: "no, gunner, your target is <here>" / "oh, of course it is" *BLAM*
mstLeoNerd: aka, being right allows you to -control- ranged weapons :)
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineUsing Your Experience Points

Hurting People

Display

buuPKRUMINS
rindolfpKrumins
pkruminsBYY
rindolfpkrumins: BUU
rindolfpkrumins: buu is back.
pkruminsrindolf: i know
rindolfpkrumins: he said he was close to disappearing.
pkruminsWHAT
pkruminsbuu, is that true
rindolfpkrumins: he was sick.
pkruminsHE WASNT
buu=[
buuI was
pkruminsHOW
buuGenetic defects!
pkruminsOH NO
pkruminsOH NO NO NO
maukesubstance abuuse
buuOwch
buuThat joke almost qualifies as abuse
maukenow that I've hurt mst and buu, my work for today is done
pkruminsyou still haven’t hurt me
rindolfmauke: hold on! You haven't hurt me yet.
buuhaha
* rindolfis hurt that mauke didn't hurt him.
rindolfOh wait.
maukejust as keikaku.
rindolfmauke: OK, now your work for today is done.
pkruminsNO
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineAre you being hurt?

The Shouting Su-Shee

Display

rindolfpkrumins: have you seen http://weblibs.herokuapp.com/ ?
pkruminsi haven't
pkruminslooking at it now
pkruminshaha
pkruminshipster wannabe-programmer nonsense
rindolfpkrumins: yes.
rindolfpkrumins: Su-Shee had told us about it.
rindolfpkrumins: a while ago.
pkruminswhere did she disappear btw
pkruminsoh there she is!
pkruminsi thought she left
mstnah, she's just been quiet recently
pkruminsright.
Su-SheeNO IM NOT. ;)
* mstconfiscates Su-Shee's megaphone and hugs her
Su-SheeI can yell naturally!
mstthen you won't need this megaphone back, will you? :D
anno.oO(1000000 phones)
Su-Shee*haha* :)
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineAlive and yelling

A Natural Stupidity Carbon-based Bot

Display

AltreusI made a new bot running on a carbon-based AI system
apeironcarbon-based? So it's written in C for a Mac?
Altreusno it's me
rindolfAltreus: you're a natural stupidity system - not an artificial intelligence one.
rindolfAltreus: or maybe natural intelligence.
Altreuswell you're a poo poo head
Altreus:)
apeironperlbot, altreus is also six years old
perlbotapeiron: Stored altreus is a small cat (see: http://avatars.plurk.com/3405142-big.jpg) | six years old
AltreusThat's generous
rindolfAltreus: calling someone a "poo poo head" proves that this person has natural stupidity.
Altreusrindolf: But the natural stupidity was postulated before the use of the phrase; hence you can't discount the fact that using the phrase was in response to, rather than proof of, the assertion.
rindolfAltreus: yes, but it still proved it after the fact.
rindolfAltreus: Q.E.D.
Altreusrindolf: Except it is possible for an intelligent system to act stupid
Altreushence it is not, in fact, proof.
rindolfAltreus: that's right - it has the right to in fact.
AltreusIndeed. So given that it has the ability, the right, and the motivation to do so, it is reasonable to assume that in fact that is what happened
rindolfAltreus: OK.
AltreusYou would have to gather further data on the system to determine it.
rindolfAltreus: in that case, calling someone a "poo poo head" has the property of having natural stupidity.
rindolfOr acting under the influence of natural stupidity.
rindolfPossibly artificial natural stupidity.
Altreusrindolf: artificial natural stupidity ._.
AltreusI think your sentence is at odds with itself
AltreusWell, your fragment
rindolfAltreus: it's an oxymoron.
Altreuscorrect
rindolfOxymorons are indicative of natural stupidity.
AltreusI gave the artificial impression of natural stupidity!
AltreusStupid phrases are an indication of a) stupidity or b) intelligence
rindolfHence stupid phrases are not indicative.
AltreusQuite so
rindolfOnly intelligent phrases can be indicative of something.
AltreusStupidity is an absence, and you cannot prove an absence without first proving an exhaustive set.
rindolfWise men know they are stupid.
Altreus:)
rindolfWhereas foolish people think they are not.
rindolfThe earliest Greek philosophers tried to philosophise in verse.
rindolfWhich didn't work too well.
AltreusMaybe they should have chosen a different meter
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineDetecting natural stupidity

Negative Numbers

Display

tziOmwhat is the most efficient way to do: floor($foo/600)*600
ChibaPetum
Altreusfloor $foo
Altreus:P
DrForrPremature microoptimization detected at line 0.
AltreusI think that /is/ the most efficient way to do it
ChibaPetwhat about int $foo?
ChibaPetor is floor more efficient?
AltreusI think this is rounding to the nearest 600
Altreuser, the lowest 600
Altreusint truncates towards 0
ChibaPetdoesn't floor do that as well?
DrForrYou're looking at microoptimization in *math*. Surely there are bigger fish to fry?
AltreusChibaPet: consider negatives
ChibaPetOh! Negatives. Slipped right by me. Thanks.
Altreusthe difference in most operations is evident in negatives, except the various rounding techniques
fizzieNegative numbers, brr, they're just not natural.
Altreus:)
rindolffizzie: :-)
rindolffizzie: but they are real.
rindolffizzie: and they aren't imaginary or complex.
Altreusthey're not /that/ real
rindolffizzie: though they can be irrational.
rindolfHeh.
DrForr-5 ∈ ℝ
antoxI think tziOm wanted to round down to 10 minutes. Maybe s/.:..$/0:00/ is an option? :D
* Altreussmacks antox with a bin
* rindolfsmacks antox with a larger bin.
Altreusthis one http://www.suasnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/dusty1.gif
* ChibaPethands antox a fish.
shortenAltreus's url is at http://xrl.us/bmpbt6
rindolfMy bin is bigger than Altreus'.
DrForrRainbow trout all 'round!
Altreuswas that a pun
antoxAnyway guys, I haven't got if I should be proud of getting smacked by a bin.
Altreusno
Altreusit's pain-based learning
rindolfantox: you were smacked by two bins - one smaller, one larger.
Cipher-0You made a mistake???!one!!! Clean out your desk at once!!!!!!eleven!!!!!
antoxAnd no supper today!
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineDon't be so negative.

Laziness

Display

shadowpaste"thrig" at 72.14.189.113 pasted "countcounterdecountersville for morissette" (22 lines) at http://scsys.co.uk:8002/176933
rindolfthrig: why are you using qx... in void-context? You should use system.
thrigbecause it's a quick example and I'm lazy
rindolfthrig: laziness!
rindolfthrig: laziness will be the fall of mankind but I cannot be arsed to do anything about it.
mstI tried, but last week's meeting of the apathy society was cancelled due to lack of interest
thrig~~ Mr. Wiggles-san!
apeironapathy society? couldn't care less myself.
thrigthe Something or the Other re. Pirates Act
LeoNerd"What do you think are the major causes of ignorance and apathy in today's voting public?" "Hrm.. don't know. Don't care, really.."
Invis:D
thrigback in the day, one would get smited for lazing the day away watching Aramaic Idol
rindolfthrig: when I was younger, I watched Sumerian Idol.
thrigit's in estivation now, I hear
cfedderindolf: gilgamesh was such a bastard on that show.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineI don't care about my apathy

Complex Math

Display

Teratogeneval: 1+1
perlbotTeratogen: 2
Teratogenit works!
Teratogeneval: e**(pi*i)
perlbotTeratogen: 1
Teratogenoh dear =(
vregeval: 1/0
perlbotvreg: ERROR: Illegal division by zero at (eval 1702) line 1.
Teratogeneval: sqrt(-1)
perlbotTeratogen: ERROR: Can't take sqrt of -1 at (eval 1702) line 1.
Teratogenwhat the
tm604http://search.cpan.org/perldoc?Math::Complex
vregeval: use Math::Complex; sqrt(-1)
perlbotvreg: ERROR: Can't locate Math/Complex.pm in @INC (@INC contains:) at (eval 1702) line 1. BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at (eval 1702) line 1.
LeoNerdMath::Complex? Why not Math::Simple?
rindolfLeoNerd: heh.
rindolfSimple Numbers.
rindolfMath::Tiny
rindolfMath::Tiny::ButMaintained
LeoNerdHehe.. Math::Tiny. Only copes with the range [0,1)
rindolfLeoNerd: sounds more like fuzzy logic.
rindolfLeoNerd: this [0,1) thing reminds me of this joke of mine - http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=jewish-deduction
LeoNerdHehe
rindolfMath::Jewish.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineMaking Complex Math Simple

Jumping Off a Bridge

Display

PerlJamm4rcu5: you need a newer perl to use the /r modifier to tr///
maukealso, why are you reading 5.14's perlop?
apeiron"because that's what I found online"
m4rcu5mauke: too old? i tought that de default install of gentoo came shiped with a bit more up2date version of perl :P
apeironsnrk
m4rcu5mauke: because thats what perldoc.perl.org served me ;-)
maukeand why are you going to perldoc.perl.org?
alnewkirkif perldoc told you to jump off of a bridge, would you?
rindolfalnewkirk: if Chuck Norris told me to do that, I would.
PerlJamrindolf: Chuck Norris wouldn't tell you … he'd just round-house kick you off of the bridge.
rindolfPerlJam: heh.
rindolfPerlJam: what if he's nowhere near the bridge?
alnewkirkrindolf: chuck norris is everywhere yet nowhere in particular
alnewkirk… like the wind
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineI’ll jump off the bridge when I get there.

Deprecation

Display

Su-SheeSO I TURNED TO YOU FOR HELP IN TIMES OF DESPERATION…
Botjedesperation is for wimps
annoprosperation?
Altreusdeprecation is an outdated concept and we prefer not to do it
Su-Sheelet’s deprecate deprecation.
alpha--agreed.
alpha--oh wait.
Su-Sheethat would be a deprecation
rindolfWho will watch the watcher?
rindolfWho will deprecate deprecation?
Su-Sheeshouldn’t someone deprecate the deprecator in that case?
* rindolfdeprecates the deprecator who is deprecating deprecation.
Altreusthat's OK, it's not deprecated yet
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineTo deprecate deprecation, we first need to stop deprecating.

Ampersand’s Many Friends

Display

el_seanois there ever a good reason to omit ampersands from subroutine invocations?
* el_seano<- noob
maukewrong question
archon-always
maukeis there ever a good reason to add ampersands to subroutine calls?
archon-almost never
el_seanoit seems like a nice touch to include the sigil so there's no ambiguity
rindolfel_seano: http://perl-begin.org/tutorials/bad-elements/#ampersand-in-subroutine-calls
YaakovAmpersands are among the coolest punctuation marks & add their coolness to everything they are used for.
maukeel_seano: what ambiguity?
apeironfoo() # pretty umambiguous
archon-&Yaakov&
* rindolfprefers ampersors.
rindolfOr ampernots.
YaakovAmperSnot
archon-amberbuts
archon-amber?
archon-amperbuts!
el_seano:D
Yaakovampersif
tybalt89ampersand followed by amperbuff and amperpolish...
Yaakovamperbeadblast
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineIf you like ampersands, you’ll also love…

Chuck Norris and Perl

Display

RiXtEr-Workthanks perl people! Sorry I am a newbie!
apeironDon't apologize for being a newbie
DrForrRiXtEr-Work: We all were at one time. Well, except maybe Larry.
apeironApologize for being stupid and then fix it
RiXtEr-Workdrforr, I wrote a bunch of perl back in about 2003-2005 era, but if you don't use it you lose it I guess..
rindolfDrForr: Chuck Norris was never a newbie!
rindolfChuck Norris will kill anyone who implies otherwise.
RiXtEr-Workrindolf, chuck norris is the perl interpereter...
rindolfRiXtEr-Work: heh.
rindolfOnly perl and Chuck Norris can parse Perl.
RiXtEr-Workhaha
DrForrNaw, all Chuck Norris has to do is *look* at perl and it interprets itself out of fear and respect.
RiXtEr-WorkChuck Norris doesn't need to program, his computer does what he says when he says it.
rindolfChuck Norris taught God how to create the universe.
DrForrInsert Higgs joke here.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineI was a newbie once. Chuck Norris wasn’t.

talexb about having a flat tire

Display

talexb: “Hey, I have a flat tire. Can you help me change it with a can opener and a pound of sesame seeds?”

(In context of parsing XML or HTML with regular expressions.)

Authortalexb
WorkFreenode’s #perl

Which version of Perl are we at, today?

Display

Botjecrane_work: 5.6 is ancient.
pink_mistcrane_work: use perlbrew
maukedo you mean 5.6?
Botjecrane_work: even 5.10 is end of line.
maukethen you need to install 5.6
maukealso, uninstall 5.6 and 5.10 and install 5.16
DrForrcrane_work: Then install v5.6 with perlbrew. And pad your keyboard for the inevitable <headdesk/>s.
DrForrAnd holy god why do you *need* something last bugfixed in the last *century*.
Botjeor, you know, use a version of perl developed *after* 9/11.
lesshastemauke: would you be able to share the code with me?
crane_worklol ^^
maukelesshaste: http://paste.scsys.co.uk/204936
lesshastethanks!
Botjeif necessary, tell your boss perl 5.16 has been terrorism-proofed.
DrForrcrane_work: Ha ha only *serious*. 5.6 is almost unrecognizable under the cobwebs.
crane_worki guess this would be a pro argument...
pink_mistcrane_work: as we've said a few times: perlbrew
lesshastemauke: I get that's fast!
lesshasteI bet
maukelesshaste: I doubt it
lesshastewe need someone to work on pyperl :)
maukeit seeks all over the place
lesshastemauke: why?
lesshasteah ok
hufc code with perl reindenting is ... strange
maukebut that's why I wanted to test it on a nontrivial data set :-)
DrForrWhy would compiling to a different VM do any good?...
DrForrOh, because it's python, therefore better. Silly me.
hufit'd force people to understand (and fix) the darkest corners of the perl grammar? *shrug* dunno
maukegrammar and semantics
hufthat too. the vote on how to interpolate $length[1234] into regexes doesnt make me feel good...
lesshasteDrForr: it's not really python
lesshasteDrForr: In fact, it's not python :)
lesshasteDrForr: they just did the same thing for PHP
lesshasteDrForr: and was some project for prolog etc in the past
crane_workmaybe this question would be stupid but... why if use v5.06 is stupid is it possible to tell perl to use a version?
maukecrane_work: what?
hufuse v5.6 isnt stupid, it just does something other than what you wanted.
lesshasteDrForr: the idea is simply that it would be *faster*
crane_workhuf: in which cases will i need it=?
rindolflesshaste: isn't pyperl this - http://wiki.python.org/moin/PyPerl ?
maukewhen your code doesn't run on 5.005 and earlier
hufcrane_work: use VERSION means your script requires at least that version of perl. if an older one tries to load it, it'll tell you to fuck off and get a newer perl. it will not turn your new perl into an old one however.
lesshasterindolf: that has the same name :) I mean using pypy to make a jit for perl as in http://pypy.org/
rindolflesshaste: OK, there's perlito.
mstcrane_work: if you want to check for things
mstcrane_work: Perl::MinimumVersion exists IIRC
rindolfperlbot: perlito
perlbotrindolf: No factoid found. Did you mean one of these: [#perl topic] [perl topic] [perl tutorials] [perl5004delta] [perl5005delta] [perl561delta] [perl56delta] [perl570delta] [perl6 Test.pm] [perldata]
lesshasterindolf: is that a static compiler or a jit?
DrForrcrane_work: Then start with 5.16 and don't worry about earlier versions.
rindolfperlbot: perlito is http://perlito.org/ - a Perl 5 / Perl 6 compiler written in Perl 5 / Perl 6.
perlbotrindolf: Stored perlito is http://perlito.org/ - a Perl 5 / Perl 6 compiler written in Perl 5 / Perl 6.
rmahpeople should just call it perl 16
hufbut it isn't.
mstI have a tendency to say /usr/bin/perl version 16
mstsince -V says 'perl revision 5 version 16';
mstso it *is* "version 16"
rmahthey called java 1.4 "java 4"
rmahit's just marketing man!
GlitchMrPerl 16 would be too confusing with Perl 6
mstperl6 is a separate language
rmahGlitchMr: we'll soon have Perl 18, so it's all good
GlitchMrPerl 5.006 is definitely not Perl 6
mstthis is perl5 version 16
michael_campbellThey called java 1.4, "java 1.4". java moved names at java 5.
michael_campbellbut point stands.
hufdid it help? i know it generated years of confusion :D
hufis that good?
maukeGlitchMr: but I call it perl6, not perl 6
mstGlitchMr: yeah, "Perl 6" is an error, since the 6 is part of the name
Su-SheeI call Java "Anne-Mary Lousia" and Python "Charles Phillip Arthur George" (bonus points for recognizing this one ;)
mstGlitchMr: people misparse it as "perl version 6"
rmahhow much of an improvement is perl 16 over perl 14 and 12?
BotjeSu-Shee: do you also put them like that on your CV? :)
rindolfhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd is at version 187 - eat your heart out, Emacs!
rmahwondering if I should go through the hassle of upgrading
Botjermah: five percent.
DrForrSu-Shee: Vaguely.
mstSu-Shee: python's ears aren't nearly big enough for that
pink_mistrmah: read the perldoc perldeltas
rmahBotje: hmm, ok
mstrmah: s//r in 14 is my favourite thing ever
rmahpink_mist: that would take actual work! <gasp!>
mstrmah: also 'package Name VERSION {'
Su-Sheemst: *bow* nice. :)
GlitchMrs///r is just nice syntactic sugar
rmahmst: thanks for the info
mstGlitchMr: given a turing machine, all new syntax is sugar
rmahI like sugar
GlitchMrHmmm... yeah
GlitchMrWe all could write without pointers in C
maukecould we?
GlitchMrBrainfuck to C compiler doesn't use pointers
GlitchMr... or perhaps it does...
GlitchMrWould int array[3000]; count as pointer?
mstwithout the ability to point, what would you do before you laugh?
Altreusmst: you should tweet that profundity
Altreusmight not be banal enough for twitter mind you
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineA critique of pure revision.

Not a solution

Display

EdwardIIIAltreus: I saw your magento moral quantry on g+
rindolfEdwardIII: Magento!
* rindolfruns away screaming.
rindolfEdwardIII: do you mean the eCommerce solution?
EdwardIIIrindolf: i do
EdwardIIIheh
Altreusrindolf: “solution” is a bit generous
AltreusI would say “problem”
Channel#perl-cats
NetworkFreenode
TaglineNot a solution

Perl’s Moose and its Roles

Display

rindolfperlbot: revert 5449
perlbotrindolf: Reverted soap to revision 5449
rindolfperlbot: good perlbot
perlbotrindolf: <purrrrrrr /> <woof /> <tail-wag />
* fizztpokwonders how many people list ``perlbot'' as a language on their CVs.
rindolfperlbot: help mkalias
perlbotrindolf: Sorry, no plugin named mkalias found.
pdlwait, it purrs AND woofs?
rindolfpdl: mixed message.
rindolfpdl: the purring is as a cat.
pdlrindolf: Maybe it's neither dog nor cat but Moose and just implements purring, woofing and tailwagging via roles?
rindolfpdl: heh.
rindolfI didn't know Meese were actors.
rindolfHow many roles does a Moose play?
fizztpok502 results for "Moose Role" on CPAN.
rindolfgenio: nice.
pdlhttp://deps.cpantesters.org/depended-on-by.pl?module=Moose%3A%3ARole
rindolffizztpok: wow! That Moose must be the world's most prolific actor. Which is especially impressive given the fact that he's not human.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineHow many roles must a one Moose play…

For lack of a slash

Display

nydelhelo
mucker_hello nydel
nydelhowdy mucker_ & how're you
DrForrehlo nydel
mucker_nydel: borderline
nydelhihi DrForr
mucker_nydel: The Doctor is drunk !! In a short while he will start singing :)
nydelDrForr: why wait? mucker_ will you get on backup vocals
DrForrDon't make me get out my ga^wuke.
nydellet's sing about Perl, are there any good Perl songs
DrForrAsk PerlJam.
tadzikRolling Stones had something about Tuesday
tadzikthat was Ruby Tuesday though :(
DrForrWell, I *did* have a pint at lunch, but I'd hardly call that 'drunk'.
nydelDrForr: pint of vodka?
DrForrHoegaarden actually.
rindolfnydel: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/Im-The-Real-Tim-Toady/
rindolfnydel: also http://perlbuzz.com/2007/12/it-was-twenty-years-ago-today.html
DrForro/' Will the real Rip Taylor please crack up, please crack up, please crack up o/'
rindolfnydel: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=perl-losing-my-abstraction
nydelrindolf: what lovely little ditties!
DrForrHey, who you callin'....oh :)
nydelis there an offtopic perl channel?
DrForrIs there an *ontopic* perl channel?
rindolfnydel: #perlcafe and #perl-cats
nydelfed you that straight line didn't i
nydeljoin #perlcafe
nydelpardon my lack of slash.
rindolfFor lack of a slash, the command failed.
rindolfFor lack of a command, the client failed.
rindolfFor lack of a client, the server failed.
rindolfFor lack of a server, the network failed.
rindolfAll because of a little slash.
pink_mistFor lack of a network, the corporation failed. For lack of a corporation, the community failed.
mucker_Having failed, the community peddled hash tables to kids
DrForr"The first key's free!"
cfeddesee? I've been saying this is a language based on drug culture.
DrForr"UNIX and LSD were both invented at Berkeley. I do not believe this to be a coincidence."
cfeddeBSD and LSD.
cfeddeUnix was invented at some east coast lab.
DrForrThanks for the correction, I knew it didn't quite sound right.
pink_mistalso, was LSD really *invented* at Berkeley? I find that hard to believe ... that it's *available* there I don't doubt though..
mucker_well guido is from netherlands.
pink_mist... seems it was actually discovered in Basel, Germany by Albert Hofmann in 1938 :P
pink_mistBasel, Germany -- Berkeley ... starting letter and ending letters are the same :P
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineFun on #perl

Perl and other Animals

Display

* GumbyPANCPAN Upload: Moos-0.12 by INGY http://metacpan.org/release/INGY/Moos-0.12
rindolfMoos?
rindolfingy: is Moos halfway between Moo and Moose?
mstrindolf: no. it's sort of Mo++ but he'd run out of letters.
rindolfmst: oh.
Kovensky"Moos completes the M to Moose sequence of Perl OO modules."
KhisanthM Mo Moo Moos Moose <- sounds like a pokemon
hufor like a lady gaga song
maukenext up: oM ooM sooM esooM
Su-SheeSo, let's go for l, loo, loose next and there's also g, goo and goose..
hippien, no, ... noose
Su-Shee"l the light perl object system", "g the generic perl object system" ...
rindolfSu-Shee: LOL.
rindolfSu-Shee++
rindolfKhisanth: reminds me of "Na Nah Nahm Nahman Me'ooman"
preactionmanamana
Su-Sheealso: "dammit, I have a mouse in my appartment" :/
rindolfA mouse in your Perl.
rindolfCPAN - we put animals in your Perl code.
* rindolfregisters Animal.pm.
Su-SheeI mean a real one which just ran along the wall :(
ingyrindolf: Moos is yet another single file OO module, that tries to loosely mimic Moose module structure
rindolfingy: ah.
rindolfingy: OK.
PerlJamSu-Shee: time to get a cat ;)
rindolfSu-Shee: all I have is ants and cockroaches.
Su-Sheecockroaches.. even worse :(
rindolfhttps://metacpan.org/search?q=ant
* PerlJamcontemplates a Moose-a-like module called "Mooserly" so that we can extend the ... "ecosystem" ;>
hippieMoosic?
PerlJamMoosaic :P
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineA-Moose-ing

The Final Perl Countdown

Display

* GumbyPANCPAN Upload: App-Countdown-v0.0.3 by SHLOMIF http://metacpan.org/release/SHLOMIF/App-Countdown-v0.0.3
* rindolfnuzzles GumbyPAN
thrigwhen is 0.0.2 coming out?
rindolfthrig: 0.0.2 of what?
thrigrindolf: THE COUNTDOWN!
stan_the final one?
rindolfthrig: it was released earlier today. ;-)
thrigwhat sort of countdown goes up?
rindolfthrig: the Merlin countdown.
hufone in soviet russia?
apeironperlbot, in soviet russia
perlbotapeiron: joke is tired of you
sjohnsonheh
reisiothrig: the kind parsed by Opera
* GumbyPANCPAN Upload: App-Countdown-v0.0.4 by SHLOMIF http://metacpan.org/release/SHLOMIF/App-Countdown-v0.0.4
thrig!
rindolfthrig: s/App-Countdown/App-Countup/
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineCount von Countdown

Back to Lingual Basics

Display

arkydorindolf: How different is modern Hewbrew from classical Hebrew in terms of grammar?
rindolfarkydo: Classical Hebrew? What's that?
thrigpresumably with tuxes and violins instead of guitars
rindolfarkydo: there was Biblical Hebrew, Mishna'ic Hebrew, Medieval Hebrew, post-Medieval Hebrew, and Modern Hebrew.
stan\0how confusing
arkydorindolf: biblical Hebrew I mean.
grothendieckPost-Modern Hebrew :P
rindolfarkydo: I think Modern Hebrew is using the grammar of the Mishna'ic Hebrew with the vocabulary of the Biblical Hebrew.
thrigAtonal Hebrew, Serial Hebrew, Minimal Hebrew
rindolfarkydo: you can understand a large part of the Bible, but the grammar sounds different.
rindolfarkydo: though you get used to it.
Vicissitudewhat about homebrew Hebrew?
rindolfVicissitude: perlbrew Hebrew!
Vicissitude:)
rindolfperlall Hebrew.
rindolflocal-lib Hebrew.
alpha-we should all just stick to ASCII
alpha-and learn English
alpha-would make things so much easier
rindolfalpha-: and less interesting, too.
rindolfalpha-: and less enlightening.
rindolfBut that was a joke.
maukeASCII isn't enough for English
rindolf“128 characters should be enough for everybody.” ;-)
maukedon’t be naïve
thrigI'm sure we can all coöperate on some solution
rindolfmauke: give me ASCII or give me deaþ!
maukerindolf: ☠
rindolfmauke: thanks.
* rindolftakes the Unicode death thingy from mauke.
maukethere's also ⺞
thrighuh. https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=%E2%98%A0 really google? nothing?
petn-randallI think we should all go back to grunting in two tones
stan\0i think google broke
stan\0for some peopel at least
petn-randallThen we only need one bit for every sound we make
stan\0only gives me shit
rindolfhttps://www.google.com/search?q=foobar - seems to work.
stan\0i meant the quality of results returned is subpar
rindolfpetn-randall: wheee... whaaa?
maukeuh-huh
petn-randallrindolf: Exactly.
petn-randallThen we could get of this 'ASCII' everyone's talking about, too
rindolfpetn-randall: whooo!
rindolfOoops.
petn-randallrindolf: You overdid it, how am I gonna get those three cries into one bit?!
rindolfpetn-randall: use UTF-cries.
petn-randallI could use compression, I guess ...
rindolfOr UTF-1
* petn-randallsnickers
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineOne World, One Love, UTF-One

NoSQL /dev/null

Display

rindolfI just had a brilliant idea: a distributed, NoSQL, WebScale, /dev/null replacement. I think I should patent it.
cfedderindolf: awesome!
cfeddeas long as we have a webscale bit bucket we should be fine.
rindolfcfedde: would you like to invest in that?
spiderwebsoftware patents suck
cfedderindolf: sure. Send me your bank account number and I'll make a deposit!
alpha-rindolf that's like a 50 trillion dollar invention
alpha-where do I invest
rindolfcfedde: OK, I'll send it through that /dev/null thing.
cfedderindolf: perfect.
stan\0would be fun if it escaped the lab and started /dev/null'ing the interwebs like a black hole
DrForrI'd call that a public service.
spiderweb- in a new way
rindolf<stan\0> would be fun if it escaped the lab and started /dev/null'ing the interwebs like a black hole ==> don't worry, I'm also going to patent how to properly secure it against abuse, so it will only null what you send to it. Not anything external and unsolicited.
rindolfstan\0: but doing that will require paying me extra.
rindolfstan\0: because I figure out not every one will need this feature.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineThe future scalability of /dev/null

Identically named variables

Display

WeThePeopledo % define the @ ?
WeThePeoplehuf, do hashes define the array
rindolfWeThePeople: %foo and @foo are completely different.
rindolfWeThePeople: note that @foo{@slice_by_me} is part of %foo
wlan% - hash yet
wlan@ array
rindolfWeThePeople: I'm now working on refactoring the perl debugger, which uses many identical names for $, @, and % variables - how irritating.
rindolfAnd in part these are package-scope variables so they are part of the interface and I cannot change them.
WeThePeoplerindolf, so you are refactoring to use $@% only ??
rindolfWeThePeople: no.
rindolfWeThePeople: I mean I have something like $sub , @sub and %sub - all at once.
rindolfWeThePeople: and I dislike it.
rindolfWell, there was also a "sub sub { ... }" (oh the humanity).
cfeddeadd &sub and sub sub {...}
cfeddehheh
cfeddeI'm too slow.
rindolfcfedde: we still love you. :-)
hufoh the possibilities, $sub[$sub], @sub{@sub}, ....
rindolfWITH GREAT HUGE LOVE.
wlansub sub { &sub }
* rindolfhugs cfedde
cfedderindolf: me too.
Yaakov&$$sub
rindolfhuf: heh.
rindolfsub-par.
cfeddehere we find ourselves well on the way to another Acme:: module
rindolfcfedde: heh.
rindolfcfedde: this time it's part of the perl core.
cfeddeNo just mix in all the case permutations and we've got a winner.
rindolfcfedde: there's a limit to how much I can refactor the debugger without breaking the "external" API.
apeironsub sandwich;
rindolfcfedde: when I started with it, it was truly vile code.
Yaakovuse sub_localize qw/grinder hoagie poboy hero/;
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
Taglinesub sub{}-standard

Love for Sale

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YaakovI LOVE YOU ALL WITH A GREAT HUGE LOVE
rindolfYaakov: HOW MUCH DOES YOUR GREAT HUGE LOVE COST?
YaakovIt's on offer half price today.
rindolfYaakov: I WILL OFFER YOU 200,000 VIRTUAL DOLLARS FOR YOUR GREAT HUGE LOVE.
YaakovThe regular price is free of charge.
rindolfYaakov: oh nice.
* rindolfbuys Yaakov's GREAT HUGE LOVE.
DrForrWhich is to say bitcoins :)
rindolfI LOVE YOU ALL WITH YAAKOV'S GREAT HUGE LOVE.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineAll you need is YAAKOV'S GREAT HUGE LOVE

RESOLVED / WONT_FIX

Display

sawyer_LeoNerd, i've decided to send the module author a request for comment on this, saying i cannot write my tests because i cannot override the port his client software uses
sawyer_perhaps he'll allow the user to override the port used
* LeoNerdnod
LeoNerdSounds good
sawyer_considering the author though... i'm wary of the reply :P
* sawyer_mutters ifyouknowwhatimean
rindolfsawyer_: RESOLVED / WONT_FIX / FUCK_YOU ... story of my life.
sawyer_hahahahaha
LeoNerdRESOLVED / NOT_GONNA_DONT_WANNA
sawyer_i once closed a ticket at $work accompanied with a yell over my office that said "and if you open that fucker again, i'm breaking a chair over your fucking face"
sawyer_but... that's just me :)
rindolfsawyer_: well, I once declined a patch on rt.cpan.org for HTML-Widgets-NavMenu, because it: 1. Broke some existing tests. 2. Was doable with some extra work.
rindolfsawyer_: hah.
sawyer_rindolf, what pissed me off was that he kept reopening a ticket for something that wasn't configured correctly. the problem was, i still haven't received the request to configure it in the first place.
rindolfI hate those tickets that get closed before it was released as a stable release.
sawyer_it's taking TDD way too far :)
rindolfsawyer_: ah.
sawyer_it was like "there's a bug." - "what's the bug?" - "that site is not up" - "it's not supposed to be up" - "yes, it is" - "no, it isn't. when they ask to bring it up, i'll bring it up" - "but it's not up" - "IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO FUCKING BE UP SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY"
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode

Dot Star

Display

thesebi have a regex that finds stuff in parentheses... "\(.*\)" ...how make it NOT be "greedy"?
thesebi.e. if it sees "(aaa)bbb)" I want it to grab (aaa) instead of the entire string
theseb(aaa)bbb)
Kyshtynbai/\ba\b|(\b.*a[^b]+\b)/ <-- this works for my proble, at least at that tests that i run for it. Regexp' theme is really an effort as it seems to me...
Su-Sheetheseb: you know there is a module to matched paired things like parentheses.. Text::Balanced?
Su-Sheetheseb: extract_bracketed
DrForrText::Balanced, yes. Doing ab-type balanced strings in REs is a pain.
thesebSu-Shee: thanks...i actually have the same problem with brackets []
Su-Sheetheseb: extract_bracketed ;)
LeoNerdOr Parser::MGC :)
Su-Sheetheseb: also, .* is the most unspecific regex you can use, it's like saying oh well match something of anything or nothing and please, a lot of it ;)
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
Tagline.* described

Perl’s Enterprise Release

Display

federated_lifeonce you get into poe and moose heavily…why stay with perl instead of going to java ?
LeoNerdI've spent much of this last month writing Perl at home and Java at work.. I really really dislike Java
Su-Sheefederated_life: what for?
federated_lifesince being a real programmer is editing the binary files directly instead of recompiling…but java has a lot of nice stuff
LeoNerdIt is far too new FutureFunction<Param,Result>() { public Future<Result> apply(Param p) { noisy } } for my liking
Su-Sheefederated_life: WTF?
LeoNerdI always get annoyed that the smallest of things takes just far too much code in Java, to the point that after a glance, I can't see where the real detail is
Su-Sheefederated_life: and what nice stuff does Java has?
apeironfederated_life, you know where Java is if you want it. we're not stopping you.
federated_lifeIm no java expert, nor a perl expert …. but I don't have to load half of cpan to get moose equivalent in java
apeironit's hardly half of CPAN
apeironit's not even a third or a quarter
federated_life:)
apeironno, not :)
apeironmore like "stfu and stop spreading ignorance-based FUD"
federated_lifeperl is awesome, no doubts about it, but Im curious what other languages you guys hack stuff up in
Su-Sheefederated_life: then just use Java and leave us using something else if you like it better.. also: plenty of perl code doesn't even need Moose or POE
apeironC
rindolffederated_life: I also use C, Ruby and Python.
LeoNerdPerl, Scheme, C, Java,...
rindolffederated_life: and I play with other languages too.
rindolffederated_life: and C++.
tybalt89federated_life: surveys are one channel over
Su-Sheefederated_life: C, Ruby, JavaScript, Shell, R and sadly Java for Android stuff
lroetybalt89, #perl++?
LeoNerdObjective Perl++.NET
rindolfLeoNerd: heh.
rindolfLeoNerd: Enterprise Edition.
LeoNerdWait, Objective jPerl++.NET surely..
Su-SheeObjective jPerl.NET++ Enterprise Beans
rindolfObjective jIronPerl++.NET Enterprise Edition.
federated_lifejperl !! awesome, now something to make java devs lose their minds
LeoNerdI wonder if anyone has a web framework called Toast
LeoNerdCould make Beans on Toast
rindolffederated_life: there's Inline::Java, BTW.
lroeObjective jIronPerl++.NET Enterprise Edition♭
LeoNerdlroe: Isn't the "Iron" something about .NET anyway though?
lroeI added the ♭
lroenot the iron
Su-SheeLeoNerd: you hid your python.
LeoNerd*ahem*
rindolffederated_life: http://paste.debian.net/218118/ - Larry Wall about Java.
rindolflroe: isn't the ♭ "flat"?
rindolfperlbot: utf8 ♭
perlbotrindolf: U+266D (e2 99 ad): MUSIC FLAT SIGN [♭]
rindolf:-)
federated_liferindolf: circa 1997
lroeyes it is the flat sign
lroeas opposed to the sharp sign
rindolfhttp://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=shlomif-functional-specs--ms-editing-macros
rindolfSo now we have:
rindolfObjective jIronPerl++.NET Enterprise Edition♭ Professional Home Premium™.
rindolfLOL.
icebattleObjective jIronPerl++.NET Enterprise Edition♭ Professional Home Premium 64-bit Single-user
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineEnterprise Perl for the Enterprise Win

On writing blog engines

Display

rindolfpetn-randall: pkrumins claims that for true nirvana, every hacker should write their own blog engine.
petn-randallrindolf: Writing your own nirvana may be easier than writing a good blog engine ;)
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineThere’s always something easier…

Love the time, like it was your brother

Display

YaakovI LOVE YOU ALL WITH A GREAT HUGE LOVE
rindolfYaakov: DO YOU ALSO LOVE THE NEW YEAR WITH GREAT HUGE LOVE?
Yaakovrindolf: I really only love people with that sort of love.
rindolfYaakov: ah.
buuYaakov: What about simulated people?
* rindolfdemands equal rights for years, minutes, hours and days to also get YAAKOV'S GREAT HUGE LOVE.
Yaakovbuu: You aren't a simulation.
rindolfHeh.
whosgonnaYaakov: we still love ya ;)
rindolfOh well, let's put some GREAT HUGE LOVE into the code.
apeironWE LOVE YOU WITH A GREAT HUGE LOVE YAAKOV
whosgonnaplease no equal rights for the minutes. we don't want GREAT HUGE LOVE every 60 seconds.
Yaakov<3
rindolfDrupal does not give me GREAT HUGE LOVE.
apeironwhosgonna, yes we do
rindolfIt does not give me any love at the moment.
whosgonnarindolf: does it give you fits of agony?
whosgonnaapeiron: i stand corrected.
rindolfwhosgonna: kinda.
YaakovI just don't love time like I love people. I can't say I *love* time at all. I appreciate the necessity of time to my love of people, and so I suppose you could make a reasonable cause that I have a second-order love of time.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineAll you need is YAAKOV'S GREAT HUGE LOVE

Botjinxing the Interwebs

Display

Su-Sheeok this is the 10th time numpy timesouts while downloading its stupid module - why does that NEVER happen to me with CPAN? not in a DECADE?
Botjesnakes on the network cables.
Su-Sheegreat thanks, now you jinxed it and it timed out again.
Botjehappy to oblige.
Botjetuesdays make computers mopy.
Su-Sheesomeone beat Botje, please.
BotjeI'll take all of you on at quake 3!
rindolfSu-Shee: what are your computer's SPECs?
BinGOsMAXIMUM ARMOUR
Su-Sheerindolf: what?
Su-Sheerindolf: what kind of question is that?
rindolfSu-Shee: like P4-2.4GHZ, Core i3, Pentium 3, etc.
Su-Sheerindolf: are you kidding me? what does that have to do with timeouts while downloading a file?
rindolfSu-Shee: no idea.
rindolfSu-Shee: it shouldn't.
Su-Sheerindolf: then why are you asking such a question?
rindolfSu-Shee: maybe use a proxy.
rindolfSu-Shee: I mean a proxy on localhost or something.
Su-Sheerindolf: and what is a proxy on localhost going to proxy before I even have the file it should proxy later on? :)
Su-SheeBotje: DON'T MOVE. IT'S /(%
Su-Shee78%
rindolfSu-Shee: I mean let python use the proxy and the proxy will download it in a better way.
BotjeSu-Shee: IT'S OKAY, THE FILE WILL BE CORRUPT ANYWAY.
rindolfSu-Shee: and cache it too.
rindolfBotje: heh.
rindolfBotje: you're Evil.
rindolfBotje: will you join my Evil Reindeer Evil Conspiracy?
BotjeI managed to blow up the same CD burn process three times by touching my friend's screen.
Botjeburn burn burn *touch screen* buffer underrun.
rindolfOooh... CDs - such low tech.
rindolfCDs are so 90s.
Su-Sheerindolf: says the man who suggests installing a proxy for a single file..
BotjeIN OUR TIME WE EXCHANGED DATA BY PUTTING PITS IN CIRCULAR PLASTIC DISKS AND WE WERE HAPPY ABOUT IT!
Su-Sheerindolf: and asks how fast my computer is in 2013...
Su-SheeBotje: YOU LOST I HAVE MY FUCKING NUMPY
rindolfSu-Shee: NASA still has some VAXes.
BotjeSu-Shee: UNPACK IT FIRST. THERE IS A SURPRISE IN THERE.
rindolfBotje: heh.
rindolfBotje++
Botje(does it show that I'm really frustrated with this paper i'm reviewing?)
rindolfNo NUMPY FOR YOU. MUAHAHAH
Su-SheeBotje: on my numpy download: indeed.
Su-SheeBotje: now I'm going for scipy.. hold still and don't move.
BotjeSu-Shee: I'm spinning around in my chair. try and stop me.
Botjealanjf: too much effort to keep track of.
Su-SheeBotje: now that is easily done with a little violence.. ;)
* rindolfkills Botje so he won't move.
Botjebut but but
Botjenewton's first law!
rindolfBotje: maybe your ghost can move.
BotjeI keep spinning for a while!
Su-SheeBotje: "you can't kill Botje" isn't newton's first law.
Su-Sheeit's not even the 5th.
Su-SheeBotje: GO AWAY FROM MY WLAN.
BotjeSu-Shee: YOU MIS-SPELLED LAWN.
BotjeSu-Shee: MAYBE IF YOU STOP SHAKING YOUR CANE
Su-SheeBotje: IF I ASK MST I'M SURE HE WILL HELP ME WITH SOME CLASSIC BRITISH BOARDING SCHOOL NAVY STYLE CANE-ING..
Su-Sheedammit this python shit requires work.
tm604oh wait my irc was stuck, Su-Shee's clearly broken the internet again
Su-Sheetm604: it's python's fault. and botje's. not mine.
tm604python is correct by definition, everyone else is wrong
Su-Sheelol.. that is amazing... pip install scipy requires some library called blas - but that's not available in pip.. reading up on how to install it, I seriously find fortran complile lines to call by hand.. WHAT THE HELL?
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode

How to stop a discussion

Display

hufplease stop now
Su-Sheeindeed.
rindolfOK.
rindolfPerl.
rindolfStopping.
rindolf.......... ... ... . . ||||>>>#####
tadzikahahaha
tadzikyes, let's stop that
rindolfYou are all Nazis! ;-)
tadzikpeople who invoke Godwin's law are worse than Hitler
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode

Hegel’s New Clothes

Display

sliddjuri have a school assignment which tells me to: generate a password hash with perl's crypt.... i dont even know where to start. never used perl. :)
Botjeperldoc -f crypt
Botjeperlbot: tutorial
perlbotBotje: http://perl-tutorial.org | http://perl-begin.org/tutorials/ | http://perlmonks.org/index.pl?node=Tutorials | http://learn.perl.org/
rindolfsliddjur: is this a highschool assignment?
rindolfsliddjur: or is it a university one?
rindolfsliddjur: surely you can learn Perl.
Su-Sheerindolf: who cares? homework is homework.
rindolfSu-Shee: so ? We help with homework.
rindolfSu-Shee: just trying to learn the enemy.
rindolfBe Prepared.
sliddjur:D
sliddjurits university, but its not a perl/programming class. its just a linuxadmnistration class
Su-Sheerindolf: then think first. two minutes of google tell everybody how to use crypt.
Su-Sheesliddjur: sorry are you really not able to google how to generate a password IN UNIVERSITY?
* rindolfis listening to Alphaville - Forever Young (“Hoping for the best, but expecting the worst” - great song).
tm604i searched for crypt but all I found were halloween instructions :(
rindolfSu-Shee: google for Perl stuff.
rindolf?
rindolfAlso http://duckduckgo.com/ is better and more consistent than Google.
Su-Sheerindolf: yeah because Perl's crypt is TOTALLY different from all the other crypts.. ;)
rindolfSu-Shee: crypts are like snowflakes - no one alike.
rindolf;-)
* rindolfhas a huge and comprehensive collectionf of crypts on his hard disk.
rindolfI'll soon need to upgrade my hard disk for it.
rindolfOK, back to topic.
Su-Sheealso seriously someone at _university_ can't research and learn on his own?
rindolfsliddjur: I suggest you learn some basic Perl properly from a good tutorial
rindolfsliddjur: http://perl-begin.org/tutorials/#perl_in_2hours - see this - it's good but see the caveats and unfortunately it is All Rights Reserved (ARR).
rindolfThe author wants to “maintain control” of their work.
Su-Sheeyes. many do. get over it.
rindolfSu-Shee: I cannot.
rindolfSu-Shee: well, I can for some time.
Su-Sheerindolf: then don't get over it in the privacy of your room. ;)
rindolfSu-Shee: OK.
* rindolfis heating up some water for some instant soup.
rindolfMaybe I'll heat up some Bourekas and/or red rice after that.
* rindolfis not much of a cook.
rindolfBut when I'm hungry, I hack something.
rindolfSu-Shee: BTW, I think trying to understand Hegel is pointless.
rindolfSu-Shee: that or Aristotle's Meta-Physics.
rindolfA lot of high language that yields no gain.
rindolfAnd is of close to zero utility.
rindolfLike The Emperor's New Clothes that only smart people can see.
Su-Sheerindolf: yeah that's what everybody thinks who has no clue of philosophy..
rindolfSu-Shee: <Su-Shee> rindolf: yeah that's what everybody thinks who has no clue of philosophy.. ==> I rest my case.
rindolfSu-Shee: BTW, I was able to disprove some of the things I was told that Kant or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%B8ren_Kierkegaard or Descartes said using logic and my own intuition.
Su-Sheerindolf: blah.
rindolftm604++ # Helping with on-topiccy stuff.
rindolfrindolf-- # Being off-topic as usual.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode

Sweet Water

Display

rindolfSound: where did you swim?
rindolfSound: in the swimming pool?
poplwat
poplin the lake
poplwith a shark
popla lake shark
Soundrindolf: yeah, at my gym. underground swimming pool
rindolfSound: ah.
popldon't make me stop logging #perl :P
rindolfpopl: heh, lake shark.
poplthen I won't remember things.
rindolfpopl++
rindolfSweet water sharks.
rindolfhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresh_water - sorry I meant Fresh water sharks.
rindolfSweet water is a Hebraism.
Soundrindolf: we say that in Italian too
rindolfSound: ah, OK.
rindolfSound: maybe it comes from Latin and/or Greek.
rindolfOr Aramaic or Hebrew.
rindolfOr Sumerian.
poplOr Bolivian.
Su-Sheethere's about 6000 other languages..
DrForrDon't get that crowd started.
poplSu-Shee: prove it
Su-Sheepopl: I don't have to.
poplSu-Shee: then you're not going to get any ice cream
Su-SheeDrForr: that would require any one of them actually speaking some more languages than one or two. ;)
Su-Sheepopl: I already had french chocolate and spanish red wine, so.. ;)
hufit's a relatively new expression, before 1909, nobody knew what water was.
Su-Sheehuf: *hihi*
rindolfhuf: heh.
rindolfhuf++
rindolfI am so making a fortune out of it.
poplAnd yet you will not make a fortune out of it.
Su-Sheeif I remember correctly, they fascinatingly still don't _really_ know what water is (chemically/physically speaking) due to its weird properties.
rindolfPeople only drank rum and beer before 1909.
* DrForris enjoying a bottle of kriek while deciding what to do about supper.
Su-SheeDrForr: I earned more wine after not just having added a keyboard shortcut no but also a window raise to sawfish! (horrible. hor-ri-ble.)
poplearned wine?
poplthat sounds like rationalization
* poplputs Su-Shee in rehab
Su-Sheepopl: wth.. it's called CULTURE here and requires a good climate in your cellar and not a stupid rehab ;)
poplmore rationalization
poplthe first step is admitting you have a problem
Altreuspopl: I admit it. You have a problem
hufi think popl's compulsive rehabilitating behavior is worrying
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode

Chuck Norris and Dimensions

Display

rindolfNew Chuck Norris factoid I came up with today “Chuck Norris’s idea of a short walk is to the Andromeda Galaxy and back.”
b0at_You’re trying too hard.
b0at_Also, you’ve ignored the curvature of space.
b0at_which results from Chuck’s winning smile
b0at_or Larry’s mustache, depending on one’s frame of reference
rindolfb0at_: heh.
rindolfb0at_: Larry Wall’s mustache, right?
b0at_rindolf: Depending on how many dimensions you think the universe has, his could be the only mustache. So, yes.
rindolfb0at_: I think the universe has 0 dimensions.
Altreuszacts: what options are there?
rindolfb0at_: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/facts/Larry-Wall/ - Larry Wall facts.
sysdefrindolf: maybe it has -1 dimensions
rindolfsysdef: or maybe -2.57673438i dimensions.
rindolfI wonder what an imaginary dimension is.
rindolfBut reportedly fractals are fractional dimensions.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineChuck Norris don’t need no dimensions

Who pwns whom, Ozone and Music

Display

j_wrightsome people are very attached to their big IDEs, or editors with 1000 features
vasundharwho is advocating vim?
rindolfj_wright: real men and real women and real boys and real girls use butterflies!
* preactionfights for Vim!
rindolfReal cats also use butterflies.
rindolfpreaction: every mighty Klingon warrior uses Vim.
rindolfBuffy Summers uses vim.
preactiononly green-blooded Romulan scum use Emacs
rindolfSince she is on our side, we are definitely going to win.
Barbapappachuck norris uses vi
rindolfBarbapappa: heh.
popl_s/ides/ideas/
rindolfBarbapappa: Buffy Summers > Chuck Norris.
preactionso, Chuck Norris is a vampire?
BarbapappaRichard Simmons > Buffy Summers
rindolfpreaction: no, but in the Buffyverse, he's getting pwned by Bfufy.
rindolfBarbapappa: who is Richard Simmons?
Barbapapparindolf: ;O
preactionexercise guy
rindolfpreaction: ah.
preactionyou've probably seen him without knowing
rindolfpreaction: maybe.
rindolfWeird Al Yankovic > *.
rindolfhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Showdown_of_Ultimate_Destiny - Mr. Rogers > *
preactionindeed
rindolfAnyway, the question is - which editor does God use?
j_wrightteco
rindolfAnd which editor does Logic, which is God's master uses?
* rindolfwould love to meet the Goddess of Logic.
rindolfj_wright: heh.
popl_flamebait :P
rindolfpopl_: what?
rindolfLogic also has masters. We all do.
rindolf“A is A, and A is not not-A? WTF is he talking about??! Of course A can be not-A! I want a little of the stuff he's on!”
rindolfThere was something about there being many storms in Ancient Greece, which made them very high on Ozone.
popl_No time for existential jibber jabber. Daddy needs new shoes.
rindolfOzone in small quantities make you think clearer.
rindolfs/make/makes/
popl_rindolf: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRx5PrAlUdY
popl_how small?
popl_:P
rindolfpopl_: the music starts very softly.
rindolfpopl_: is this dubstep?
popl_yes
rindolfpopl_: ah.
rindolfpopl_: ah, OK.
popl_a dubstep band called o-zone
rindolfpopl_: dubstep is all the rage now.
rindolfpopl_: I'm more into pop/etc.
rindolfBut there's a lot of good dubstep.
rindolfpopl_: I don't like this song much. Seems uneven and inconsistent.
popl_I was joking rindolf. It's not dubstep. This is europop, I guess.
j_wrighteither way, i am glad i didn't click
popl_It was a joke because you were talking about ozone in small quantities.
rindolfpopl_: ah, I see.
rindolfpopl_: seems like Eurodance.
popl_I hope so. I murdered the joke and splayed it open for you.
rindolfj_wright: <irony>It's actually a rick-roll</irony>
j_wrighti don't see the irony
rindolfpopl_: it's funny, but I actually like a lot of the all-girls bands britpop, like Atomic Kitten, All Saints, Girls Aloud, Spice Girls, etc.
rindolfpopl_: also like some songs by Britney Spears.
rindolfpopl_: not sure if Americans are really aware of Atomic Kitten.
rindolfpopl_: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V0xQkk9kbc - hope you can view it.
rindolfIt may be blocked only to Europe.
rindolfUploading the .webm now. rsync++.
j_wrighthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_Kitten#Members wtf is the point of this chart
j_wrightsomeone wanted a gold star for this page
rindolfHmm.... they are together again?
rindolfThey are whole again!
j_wrightoh dear, fangasm
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineWhen Chuck Norris is Not Tough Enough.

The New Foobar

Display

Su-Sheemaukf: GOD WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU? ARE YOU INJURED?
hufhe's become more.
claes_leveld up
pink_mistnew and improved?
Altreuspick one
Altreuscan't be both
Altreus(false)
Su-Sheewell it seems he incremented. f comes after e. soon he will be maukg.
waglehow do you split a string into a list of lists? (different delimiters).. trying this, but it doesnt work: map {split ("|")} (split('\n',$output)))
maukfthere is no such thing as a list of lists
waglei feared that
DrForrList of arrayrefs.
maukfand your regexes are wrong
waglebut thought perl5 was supposed to
Su-Sheewagle: see DrForr
DrForrwagle: perldoc perlreftut ; perldoc perldsc
wagleok, thanks
* DrForrgoes back to reading about dioxygen difluoride.
easteval: [ split /\n|\|/, "foo|bar\nbaz" ] # wagle ?
perlboteast: ["foo","bar","baz"]
DrForreval: [map {[split 'a']} split 'b', 'malbajessicaalba']
perlbotDrForr: [["m","l"],["","jessic","","l"],[]]
DrForrwagle: ^^^ maybe.
east.oO( JessicaAlba might be the new foobar )
Altreuswithout her consent!
eastthink she wouldn't like it?
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineSmokin’ hawt meta-syntactic variables

How big is Yaakov’s GREAT HUGE LOVE

Display

rindolfYaakov: how is your GREAT HUGE LOVE doing today?
Yaakovrindolf: It's doing very well. Thanks for inquiring.
rindolfYaakov: you're welcome.
rindolfYaakov: is you GREAT HUGE LOVE bigger than Jupiter?
tybalt89rindolf: it's greater than one universe, but not greater than two
rindolftybalt89: ah.
Yaakovrindolf: The magnitude of my love is not a spatial one. It premates all timespace, so there is no spatial measurement that can be made. Comparing it to the extension of any object is meaningless.
hufhmm, "premate"
hufinteresting new word
rindolftybalt89: “There are only two infinite things: the universe and Yaakov’s GREAT HUGE LOVE.”
tybalt89"premates" ? is that like courtship ?
Botjeand we're not entirely sure about the universe!
rindolfIsn't it permeates?
rindolfBotje: yes.
hufno, premate is obviously not permeate
hufthey differ on the second letter, dude.
YaakovThat's what what you call a "tpo".
rindolfperlbot: define premate
perlbotrindolf: Whups, no definition for you
taotetekpremeditate?
hufYaakov: i prefer to think of it as you finding a new gem in the word mines
tybalt89rindolf: classically the third infinite thing is "human stupidity"
YaakovThe problem with routinely using obscure words is that when I make a typo I slashdot dictionary.com.
rindolftybalt89: human stupidity has become finite thanks to Yaakov's GREAT HUGE LOVE.
tybalt89rindolf: No. Love does not trump stupidity.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode

HITHIM

Display

* GumbyPANwelcomes FOSSTAMIL - chandrasekaran to CPAN!
* GumbyPANwelcomes HITHIM - Vladimir Krasulya to CPAN!
pink_mistHITHIM
pink_mistgood name
rindolfHITHER
rindolfHITLER
maukeyou just went too far
rindolfHITTOOFAR
maukehmm, hithim looks like a hebrew plural
rindolfmauke: Hittetes.
rindolfhttp://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%97%D7%AA%D7%99%D7%9D
rindolfhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hittites
maukeWHAT DID YOU DO, MY WHOLE INTERNET IS BACKWARDS
maukehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_Hittites
pink_mistlol
Su-SheeI can't be the only one who parsed that as "hi titties" ...
Su-Sheebut I'm biased of course.
maukenot me, I was already thinking of "Hethiter"
Su-SheeI'm thinking: moar coffee.
taotetekSu-Shee: I agree with this thought.
Su-Sheetaotetek: you will run out of coffee, you just locked yourself in ;)
rindolfI'm thinking: more drugs!
rindolfSex and drugs and Rock-N'-Roll… a.k:a drugs and drugs and drugs!
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode

karma war

Display

j416sproingie: so it seems. Thanks for the help! Problem solved. :)
rindolfsproingie++ # Helping j416
sproingie:)
j416rindolf: ty :)
rindolfj416: you're welcome - you can bump sproingie's karma too.
pink_mistsproingie++ #anyone can do it!
cfeddesproingie++ # Just because it is fun.
annocfedde++
rindolfanno++
cfeddeheh
cfeddekarma war!
rindolfkarmapocalpyse.
sproingiekarma singularity!
cfedderindolf++ # just to round things out
rindolfcfedde: thanks. :-)
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode

Getting to Mongolia

Display

DrForrYep, build one to throw it away, then never build the second one :)
Altreuspancake algorithm
Su-Sheehihi.. mongolia has an ACTUAL annual yak shaving contest.. we should all attend. :)
AltreusHow will we get there
Altreushuh
Maddinguehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinggis_Khaan_International_Airport
DrForrhttp://www.theyakranch.com/Yak-Tails/dog-shame-yak-shame.html # Yak Shaving in America.
AltreusMaddingue: I vote boat
Su-SheeAltreus: also, transsiberian railway.
Altreusoptions
Su-SheeMaddingue: god a Chinggis Khan Airport.. amazing :)
Su-SheeAltreus: only 10 days or so from berlin..
DrForrBy pack train, of course.
Altreushow far by foot?
DrForrKHAAAAAAaaaaaaaaan!(s.)
DrForrDoesn't have quite the ring of JOHN HARRRRIISSSOOOOOOOOoooon... though. But what wouldn.
DrForrHuh? No. Just trying to figure out what form of conveyance would take 10 days to get from Berlin to whatever the capital of Mongolia is.
Su-SheeAltreus: tell me what water you would put the boat in between berlin and mongolia.. ;)
DrForrUlan Bator.
Maddinguealso, Mongolia is landlocked between Russia and China
Su-SheeDrForr: trans-siberian railway, it's actually quite cheap. :) but it _really_ takes roughly 10 days.
DrForrOh, right, it's on *that* side.
DrForryeah, that makes sense.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode

Short is Beautiful

Display

laoujiwhat's a good smtp/mime mail module with few dependencies?
laoujiEmail::Sender seems to have Moo in it and all kinds of stuff I don't really need
rindolflaouji: why do you worry about dependencies?
laoujiI guess I don't have to worry about them. I was just wondering if there was something lighter.
hufMoo is already light as hell
laoujiok lol
hufif you want something even lighter, see M :) https://metacpan.org/module/M
laoujibeautiful
hufor Mo
laoujiok I will just use Email::Sender
hufalthough Mo is quite fat compared to M :)
DrForrThere's now just 'M'... *that*'s gonna be simple to search for.
hufDrForr: there's still no .pm
hufuse ;
rindolfhuf: what's the "use;"?
hufrindolf: fewer deps! more lightweight!
rindolfMaybe require ''; will work.
rindolfhuf: heh.
hufthis one doesnt even need perl!
hufit "works" equally well with a tea towel
* rindolfwrites a /bin/cat script.
hufsed 1d is better
DrForrDidn't we already do that for PPT?
DrForrOr is that just me showing my cynicism...
DrForrYou could f*ck with people's heads and require a non-breaking space before the semicolon to make '.pm' work :)
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode

World War 3

Display

Su-Sheeaaah. an hour of hiking in the late summer/early autumn weather makes everything better...
tadzikI deny the notion that it may be autumn already
Su-Sheetadzik: damn, I haven't even packed my stuff yet for the invasion..
Su-Sheegod what am I going to wear..
tadzika uniform, duh
Su-SheeYEAH WHAT COLOR MAN.. black or grey or green...
DrForrOo, a woman in uniform.
tadzik1st sep. problems
Su-Sheehm, well I look very good in army green..
Su-Sheetadzik: will you greet me at the border? ;)
tadzikSu-Shee: our cavalry is waiting for your tanks ;)
Su-Sheetadzik: I'm not riding a tank.. ugly. noisy.
tm604I'm sure there are fluoro electric ones by now
Su-Sheetm604: that doesn't forfill german-polish WW2 requirements. ;)
Su-Sheetadzik: sometimes I wonder if some war game simulations still exist in some dark cellar in some old ministry in germany or poland..
tadzikSu-Shee: in germany? Surely ;)
hufww, pff.. we've been on www since 1996!
Su-Sheehuf: so, did we miss WWW3 then?
Altreus3.1
hufmiss? she's a girl?
Su-Shee"War for Workgroups"
tadzikhaha
Su-Sheeor, "Windows for War". ;)
hufworld wide war
Su-Sheethat's what I was going for with WWW3
Su-Sheeworld wide war would be number 3 after world war two. ;)
hufno wonder the dod's website is www.defense.gov :)
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode

The God Object

Display

mstthe problem is Ovid tends to compose dozens of roles into classes for no reason I've ever been able to work out
poplmaybe he's just being complete?
mstno
mstotherwise I wouldn't be criticising it
poplok
msthe's fallen into what I refer to as the PantheonObject anti-pattern
msti.e. breaking a GodObject up into a dozen roles
poplhaha
poplmst: when are you writing your book? :P
Su-Sheeif a god object is broken into a dozen roles, surely they're disciple roles...
poplSu-Shee++
poplSu-Shee: I think you just caused a rift in the Church.
Altreusif you instantiate a God object what happens to the rest of society
Su-SheeAltreus: well Luther and Calvin start refactoring...
annoLuther and Hobbes
poplhurr
poplsometimes we are so esoteric it is actually painful :P
Su-Sheewell ok, first Henry VIII publishes a mean spirited book about design pattern and splits from the one true Object.
Su-Sheethen Calvin and Luther start refactoring.
thrigpopl: it's no Voynich manuscript
LWAwell, then the refactoring was done by wycliff, luther, calvin, zwingli?
Su-SheeLWA: damn, forgot zwingli.
maukesounds chinese
uri_mst: i will leave the bloviating to you! :)
poplHenry VIII's patterns all involved removing encapsulation
annoand hus. you need hus
poplthrig: nothing ever is
Su-Sheepopl: mostly, he removed wives ;)
hufunless you're vegetarian, in which case you dont have much use for hus
Su-Sheeyou're confusing it with jus. ;)
poplLWA: wyclef?
mstzwingli sounds like it should be what the third non-alpha character on a variable should be
mst$ # sigil
mst$^ # twigil
mst$^? # zwingli
Su-Sheemst: sigil, twigil, zwingil.
LWApopl: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wycliffe
hufno not -il
huf-li
poplLWA: yeah I know :)
huftoo few words end in -li :)
poplLWA: Bad joke. :(
Su-Sheehuf: IN YOUR LANGUAGE MAYBE
poplLWA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyclef_Jean
maukechili
hufSu-Shee: i meant in english
Su-Sheehuf: what the dutch have with their -je, the swiss have with -li
hufSu-Shee: _i_ say google as gugli :)
Su-Sheehuf: english schmenglish(li)
poplhuf: weirdo
maukehuf: that's adorabli
poplmauke++
hufmaukele :)
poplmaukelele?
LWAmauke: this is silli
hufeveryone gets mangled.
dispersedsilli is a fish
Su-Sheehuf: we've decided last year in the office to pronounce "Kindle" swabian-german. it sounds so much better.
hufoh yeah, kindle is definitely kindli
Su-Sheehufli, maukli, popli.
popl\o/
hufhuffancs is more common
dispersedperil!
dispersed... oops
dispersedperli i meant
maukeperl -li
anno230 matches for /li$/
dispersedi have noticed that saying a piece of software is a "4000 line perl script" with the perl sounding like 'peril' is a really convincing argument
Su-Sheesend a pingli, vasily!
Su-Sheegentli.
poplgentlefolk, surely
dispersedsureli
Su-Sheepopl: gentlifolk.
popldispersed: Don't call me Shirley
Su-Sheegreat now I have swiss german in my head.
poplSu-Shee: is that a cheese?
Su-Sheeand god do I wish anybody would understand Asterix puns because.. man Asterix in Switzerland is just amazing.
dispersedu_n o_o ... smili
poplI heard in Switzerland that all the clocks are made from chocolate.
popl*heard that
hoverboardwut
Altreusclockolate
popland the streets are made of cheese
hoverboardlol @ grossly misinformed
annofrom cuckoos
Su-Sheepopl: common misunderstanding. because all swiss cheese are round, they made all clocks round too. the chocolate is actually a rebellious reaction to that because it's rectangular.
popland there are no cats in Switzerland
hoverboardthey just don't survive there?
Su-Sheealso, the swiss get very cranky when they don't get chocolate on time. that's why the swiss metro/trains etc are so famously punctual.
poplcats don't eat cheese
Su-Sheeof course they do.
annothey bait their breath with cheese
Su-SheeI should get a job teaching foreign cultures.
poplwell, maybe you're right
annoto catch mice
poplby transitivity
poplmice eat cheese, cats eat mice, ergo cats eat cheese
Su-Sheemy cat ate cheese.
poplSu-Shee: your cat likes to cut out the middle-mouse
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode

Older and Wiser

Display

ZoffixWorkmst, yeah I asked; thrig unbanned me. I know when I got that ban I was misbehaving badly and were being rude to you. So I apologize for that. Now I am older and wiser.
* rindolfis now older and more foolish.
rindolfZoffixWork: beware from accumulating too much wisdom .
rindolfZoffixWork: it's not wise to be too wise.
rindolf;-)
mstZoffixWork: eh, I don't give a fuck about your being rude to -me-, my personality does pretty much invite it most days
mstZoffixWork: as far the rest ... well, I'm older. wiser I guess we can figure out as we go along :)
rindolfmst++ # Humility.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode

Cake Across Europe

Display

Su-Sheebrain broken. I just had to think for three minutes how to create a branch in git. need chocolate.
DrForrSame here.
pink_mistnot coffee?
Su-Sheecoffee too. good idea.
DrForro/' Code monkey get up get coffee... o/'
Su-SheeI think I also need a huge german schnitzel today.
BotjeSu-Shee: I AM BRINGING THREE HUGE PIES TO THE OFFICE TODAY!
Su-SheeBotje: WRONG
Su-SheeBotje: YOU BRING TWO TO YOUR OFFICE AND ONE TO ME.
BotjeHOW CAN IT BE WRONG IF IT'S SO TASTY
Su-SheeBotje: BECAUSE YOU COUNTED WRONG
BotjeIT'S ONLY FOUR HOURS OF FLYING. YOU CAN STILL GET HERE IN TIME.
Su-Sheeseriously, bruxelles - berlin 4 hours?
Botjeprobably less.
Botjea hell of a lot less, actually.
Su-Sheeunless they moved it behind moskow or so..
Botje1h25
Botjeit sure felt like four hours when we went, hmmm.
BotjeEVEN BETTERER! CAKE TIME IS AT 12:30!
BotjeLEAVE NOW BE THERE ON TIME
Su-Sheeyes, because it's one and a half hour flight and additional 4 hours getting there, waiting, checking in, getting out.. ;)
poplI have cake right here with me. Cake time is whenever I want it to be.
Botjeif you don't take luggage it's quite fast
Botjeten minuts check in, ten minutes security, run to gate, board, land, take taxi, have cake.
Su-Sheewhy can't flying be as simple and fast as boarding a train...
poplhaha
Botjeit used to be :)
poplTrains aren't simple anymore in the US. :(
Su-SheeBotje: yeah, I remember vaguely.
poplNow we have the TSA.
BotjeSu-Shee: ah, maybe brussels-berlin by train is four hours.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode

Rules of the #perl Channels

Display

rindolf«The first rule of the #perl channels: you don't talk about non-Freenode #perl channels. The second rule of the #perl channels: "#perl" always refers to Freenode's #perl.»
Nei??
rindolfNei: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=rules%20of%20the%20fight%20club - see this . I haven't watched the film , just read that quote.
DrForrYou haven't watched /Fight Club/?...
rindolfDrForr: the first rule of watching /Fight Club/ is you never say that you watched /Fight Club/ . ;-)
breadwardenwell, what else would you use a club for?
* rindolfuses the club to club breadwarden .
rindolf/Club Fight Club/
vagueIs that a club for club fight or a club to club a fight club?
bhuddaha club where the clubbers club fight clubs
rindolfDrForr: I recently finished watching the first /Matrix/ film, and not sure I really liked it, but was glad I did because it's a film that everyone expects you to have watched.
rindolfHaifa Linux Clubbing.
DrForrIt hasn't aged well in these days of CGI and Avatar, I'm afraid.
rindolfDrForr: /The Matrix/ ?
DrForrYeah.
rindolfDrForr: hmm... well, I found the quality of the effects there pretty good, but didn't like the movie in general.
rindolfDrForr: at least I didn't feel 100% unable to continue watching it.
rindolfLike has happened with some other books or films.
DrForrWell, if the books have Stephenie Meyer's name anyhwere on them that's a natural reaction.
rindolfDrForr: I haven't read Stephenie Meyer.
DrForr(as is storming out of the theater and vociferously demanding your money back, *along* with the wasted portion of your life, *along* with the bits of your soul that got left behind.)
rindolfDrForr: http://www.amazon.com/xUnit-Test-Patterns-Refactoring-Code/dp/0131495054 - this is a book I gave up on twice, and think is redundant.
rindolfDrForr: heh.
rindolfDrForr++
DrForrI couldn't even make it through 20 minutes of Twilight with Rifftrax' help.
rindolfDrForr: and I recall forcing myself to finish The Lord of The Rings (the book) and not remembering anything about it.
DrForrIt was like watching The X Files, with even *less* chemistry between the leads.
rindolfDrForr: hmm.. haven't watched The X Files
annoput down a 1000-pager on page 950 to make a point
DrForrSee, that implies that someone outside the age of 15-17 actually *watched* the movie. Which is scary enough as it is. I *saw* the crowd at the last Twilight premiere.
rindolfI haven't watched Twilight, but I saw a crossover parody of it, Buffy, Karate Kid and Harry Potter on YouTube that I found hilarious.
DrForrhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsT0wD6pmo4 # All you need to see.
rindolfDrForr: quite aweful indeed.
rindolfDrForr: /A Suitable Boy/ was a very long book, but it wasn't boring it all. I enjoyed almost all of it.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineWhat you wish you would have to experience.

AJAX URLs

Display

Su-Sheehm, do browsers treat URLs encoded/unencoded with foo/bar/baz#fumpp versus foo/bar/baz%23fumpp differently? (aka in-page links)?
hufthey should
Su-Sheedammit.
huf's the point of urlencoding
Su-Sheeyeah, I really wasn't sure, I haven't used in-page links for at least a decade or so.
Nei# doesnt get send to the server
rindolfNow there's also them AJAX URLs #!op/sub-op/foo-12353ab343
Neiunless via JS
huf"now"
hufyou mean years ago before js got the history api
rindolfhuf: maybe - I still see them sometimes.
hufbut yeah, lots of crap still does the #! thing
Nei"now" everyone is using the history api to fake real looking urls that could be sent to the server right
rindolfGoogle Groups I'm looking at you.
hufNei: yeah. so great. :(
huf"our websites are huge and slow and clunky. i know, let's add MORE crap"
Neihihihi
NeiI share the room with a php dev and he loves his shit and tells me all those horror stories how they implement this caching and another caching to speed things up
Su-Sheehuf: no, I'm really honestly using real in-page links :)
hufat least this way we get to spend cpu cycles on *gasp* transitions!
hufSu-Shee: yeah, those are fine and cool
Neiand repllace everything with ajax and in-page div replacement so it doesnt feel sluggish
Su-Sheehuf: not when they get encoded apparently.. :)
hufNei: and somehow it's still not as fast as a nice clean simple website built with html4 and no css. just the content, cleanly. no crap.
hufSu-Shee: write some js to decode it and ajax and ... oh god
Neiat least php auto-gzips for you
hufunless it segfaults :D
huf(guess what we spent our time with yesterday...)
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineHow have the wise men helped with their ruling?

Information Overload

Display

* GumbyPANCPAN Upload: Tinkerforge-2.0.1 by ISHRAQ http://metacpan.org/release/ISHRAQ/Tinkerforge-2.0.1
rindolfhttps://metacpan.org/pod/release/ISHRAQ/Tinkerforge-2.0.1/lib/Tinkerforge.pm - WTF is tinkerforge? :-(
Botjewho knows
Altreusmr google
pink_misthttp://www.tinkerforge.com/en/home/what_is_tinkerforge/
rindolfAh, I think I understand.
EmbargErpink_mist: damn, it took 10 minutes to find out who and why sent me this "tinkerforge" link. I looked through all my jabber, icq and skype conversation and found nothing!
pink_mistEmbargEr: heh :P blame rindolf :P
EmbargErI blame my brain
AltreusEmbargEr: that's the danger of just clicking things
EmbargErAltreus: exactly
rindolfEmbargEr: maybe you're suffering (like me) from information overload.
rindolfEmbargEr: which according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_overload#Early_history the author of Ecclesiastes (~300 BC) complained about as well.
rindolf“There's nothing new under the sun.”
EmbargErwell...
pink_mistargh, MORE INFORMATION! thanks rindolf :P
rindolfpink_mist: it's information about information overload.
rindolfpink_mist: meta-information overload.
pink_mist:P
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineKnowing that I know too much is too much knoweldge

Scaring Users Off

Display

Su-SheeI hate this "oh shit this isn't really properly normalized" - more and more tables - "what am I doing here?" - bounce back, reduce number of tables to something sensible - is there a shortcut? ;)
AltreusMONGO
* Altreushides
Su-SheeAltreus: you know if you don't play nice we make you stay in #php and never allow you to do any perl anymore ;)
AltreusI don't think I'm allowed in there
Su-Shee#php, ##php..
Su-Shee###php
Altreusphp isn't allowed an official channel
jkg###webscale
AltreusMy new phone is so responsive I hate using my laptop now :(
DrForr#php_into_the_ground
Su-SheeAltreus: because.. the laptop is... ?
siamsaratable based
user_1879hello
* siamsaralaughs out loud at his own jokes
rindolfuser_1879: hi.
DrForrAfternoon.
user_1879exit
pink_mistrindolf: you scared him away!
siamsararindolf++ # scaring users off
rindolfsiamsara: :-)
rindolfsiamsara++ # Good joke.
rindolfsiamsara: no users are good users.
rindolfWell, I mean «no users» -> «good users» not For each user -> user is not good.
pink_mistyes, the norwegian users are all good users :P
siamsaranot like us users
pink_mistor even my users
rindolfHeh.
rindolfWhat shall be users be?
rindolfWill there be users?
DrForrusers, good god, what are they good for.
Botjeabsolutely nothing!
Altreusbug testing
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineUsers? We Don’t Need No Stinkin’ Users.

Quantifying Emoticons

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rindolfAltreus: it's live now. Thanks! http://is.gd/HdVT69
Altreus:)!
rindolfAltreus: heh.
rindolfAltreus: is the "!" a kind of beard?
AltreusWell no but it could be
AltreusIt just means "very"
Altreusas with all exclamations
rindolf¡!
rindolf¿?
JarJarBinksthat's a handlebar moustace
JarJarBinks¡!
Altreusthat is just "very ¡"
pink_mistAltreus: I thought that was what :D was for =)
AltreusNaw
AltreusThat's a different expression, not just more of the same
Altreus:)! is :) but more so
pink_mistah I see
AltreusAlso allows for :D!
jkgis ":) :)" more or less than a :)! ?
Altreus¯\(._.)/¯
AltreusI don't have that in my repertoire
Altreus:)! is :) * :) - 1 * :) - 2 ... 1
Altreusbut :) :) is 2:)
Altreusso... more FSVO :)
Altreusless for the others
Channel#perl
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An SMS about the fax…

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LeoNerdrindolf: Can you send me an RT bug on that? NaFTP, requesting the REST command and IPv6 support
rindolfLeoNerd: OK.
rindolfLeoNerd: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=95574
LeoNerdYou do know these things are emailed to me, and so you don't need to highlight my attention on IRC right? :)
Botjehey LeoNerd, you should've received a mail about that ticket you wanted!
* LeoNerdends Botje an SMS to remind him about the fax containing my reply to his telex
Botjeplease don't end me, it was just a joke
corgifextweet him a link to your facebook post containing a screenshot of your tumblr
jkgyou _could_ mention it on G+, but only google employees would see it
corgifexinb4 vine
pink_mistmake a youtube video of you sending the tweet
corgifexselfie instagram
hufwhisper it into a beer and then pop round to leonerd's and give it to him personally
LeoNerdOooh that would work :)
hufha!
hufat least one could "pop 'round"
hufi dont think that's legal outside britain
hufperhaps in the more colonier former colonies.
corgifexpost it on stackoverflow, link it on /r/LeoNerd
hufwhy is there no /r/leonerd?
corgifexdunno, report a bug
Botjeyou should wait for the future to resolve.
Channel#perl
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2014’s 4th of July’s #perl Green Tea Party

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Su-Sheehm, was there a time datatype for duration in postgres? or am I just wishful thinking?
_DrForrSu-Shee: 'interval'?
rindolfRadditz: nice. :-)
rindolf_DrForr++ # Helping Su-Shee
Su-Shee_DrForr: lemme look. merci.
rindolf_DrForr: why do you have a leading underscore now?
_DrForrAt least in 9.1.
* rindolfeats the underscore.
Su-Shee_DrForr: I have the latest and shiniest postgres.
_DrForrHaven't found and /killed my clone, I guess.
poplYou'll spoil your dinner.
rindolfIt was a good underscore. Minty with a hint of cranberries.
rindolf_DrForr: ah. /msg NickServ HELP GHOST?
Su-Sheeoh genius. interval hour to minute is exactly what I need.
poplinterval is awesome
rindolfPostgreSQL++
Su-Sheemy favorite: allballs ;)
rindolfUnderscores are the most nutritious punctuation. But you also need to eat letters, digits and whitespace for a balanced diet.
rindolf;-)
Altreusr 2 hours ago you said you were going to sleep
Altreusrindolf: *
LeoNerdI much prefer scheme's-name-style
rindolfAnd both uppercase and lowercase letters are important.
annohumor!
Su-SheeLeoNerd: See my -? ;)
LeoNerdSu-Shee: ooooh... I hadn't thought of that. Yes :)
rindolfAltreus: I went to sleep and woke up with some great ideas for my new screenplay.
Altreusrindolf: do you normally sleep in short periods?
Su-SheeLeoNerd: sadly, doesn't work most of the time elsewhere. most login names for example don't allow -
Altreusrindolf: or was it just a nap
Su-SheeLeoNerd: half of the perlbot refuse me because of it too. ;)
rindolfAltreus, anno : also see http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=sharp-xkcd-programming-languages-sex-talk .
annoyeah, sure
rindolfAltreus: just a nap - lately I've been hypomanic so I sleep less at once.
rindolfAltreus: and wake up early.
rindolfAltreus: I also have many small meals.
poplrindolf: I have found that having a shitty job helps me regulate my depression.
rindolfpopl: ah, OK.
rindolfpopl: I'd like to get a job where I interact with people a lot.
rindolfpopl: like a shop vendor.
rindolfpopl: so far many of these places asked me for my age, and I'm 1977-born.
rindolfAnd* a Technion graduate in EE.
rindolfSo people may think i'm overqualified.
Su-Sheehuf! where are you! HELP!
rindolfBut there are no small jobs - only small workers.
_DrForrMore efficient, you can pack more into a small space.
poplI've seen some very large workers.
rindolfpopl: heh.
rindolfpopl: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/Emma-Watson-applying-for-a-software-dev-job/ - paraphrasing on what I wrote here.
rindolfpopl: I didn't mean small in physical size - just "Rosh qatan" and with a big ego.
rindolfperlbot: rosh gadol
rindolfperlbot: search for rosh
rindolfperlbot: Rosh Gadol is http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2004/12/06.html - literally "Big Head" or "Small Head", Hebrew slang for taking initiative, and being awesome at your job or responsibilities regardless of how small they are.
perlbotrindolf: Stored Rosh Gadol is http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2004/12/06.html - literally "Big Head" or "Small Head", Hebrew slang for taking initiative, and being awesome at your job or responsibilities regardless of how small they are.
rindolfperlbot: learn Rosh Qatan is [fact Rosh Gadol]
perlbotrindolf: Stored Rosh Qatan is [fact Rosh Gadol] as
rindolfperlbot: rosh qatan
perlbotrindolf: No factoid found. Did you mean one of these: [Rosh Gadol]
rindolfpink_mist: can you help?
rindolfperlbot: alias
perlbotrindolf: use the new mkalias command: mkalias foo <- bar
rindolfWe need aliases for both rosh qatan and rosh katan
Su-Sheeno, we don't.
Su-Sheeor do they indicate perl stuff?
rindolfIn The Gilmore Girls ( ♥! ), Lorelai started off as a cleaner of that inn, and ended up running that place.
rindolfSu-Shee: it is related to Perl.
Su-Sheeno, it's not.
rindolfSu-Shee: and it has nothing to do with sex/celebrities/etc.
Su-Sheeyes and you can still stop dropping all your private shit into the bot.
_DrForrNo, it's a term from a blog about software. It's as related to perl as 'scrum' is.
rindolfSu-Shee: why do you think that perlbot should be about 100% perl stuff?
rindolfOn irc.perl.org purl has stuff from Monty Python.
Su-Sheerindolf: the name "perl" bot might be an indicator. and we're not on irc.perl.org and purl is purl.
rindolf_DrForr++
_DrForrHistorical accident.
rindolfSu-Shee: well, we discussed Rosh Gadol/Qatan in the past here.
rindolfSu-Shee: it's part of #perl's culture.
Su-Sheenice try. you're the only one who's dropping his culture into the bot. how about making your own bot for it.
_DrForrI'm guessing you mean 'you' there.
rindolfSu-Shee: perlbot is the bot of #perl, #perlcafe, and related channels - not of the perl 5 programming language.
_DrForrSo you're now the arbiter, I see.
rindolf_DrForr: what?
rindolfperlbot: define arbiter
perlbotrindolf: arbiter n 1: someone with the power to settle matters at will; "she was the final arbiter on all matters of fashion" [syn: {arbiter}, {supreme authority}] 2: someone chosen to judge and decide a disputed issue; "the critic was considered to be an arbiter of modern literature"; "the arbitrator's authority derived from the consent of the disputants";... [Output truncated. Use `more` to read more]
rindolfAh, hah.
rindolf_DrForr: well, it's ultimately up to thrig to decide.
Su-Sheeoh if we take thrig's sense of humor as a measurement I see interesting times and judgements ahead.. ;)
rindolf_DrForr: or Su-Shee and I can try to convince one another of our righteousness using THERMO-NUCLEAR-WAR!
jkgLOVELY WEATHER TODAY.
rindolfjkg: LOVELIEST!
_DrForrWould you like to play a game?
rindolfjkg: THERE IS NO JUSTICE! THERE'S ONLY ME!!!
jkghow about a nice game of chess?
rindolf_DrForr: is it a quote from WarGames?
_DrForrFinally enlightenment strikes.
rindolfjkg: "A battle of wits? To the death?! I accept!!"
jkgI think you switched movies :)
rindolfjkg: seamlessly.
Su-Sheeif I'm going to war over this, I will win without a battle.
rindolfOooooh... cheater.
rindolfGotta love a girl who bends the rules - http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=david-vs-goliath--hacker .
rindolfSu-Shee: so how are you going to win without a battle? Will you poison my water?
Su-SheeI never cheat. I don't need to. Because you will nicely fall into your own sword without me even moving a finger. and we're almost there.
Su-Sheeand I will have warned you and I will have made transparent how this works and you will not believe it and yet it will be happening.
rindolfOoohhh... free man destroying himself.
jkgevil mastermind 101: never tell your adversaries that you're close to achieving your goals.
rindolfjkg: heh.
rindolfjkg++
_DrForrjkg: But come on, the cliche'd Bond villain speech is a *classic*.
Su-Sheejkg: wrong. tell them. often. they don't believe you anyways.
rindolfSu-Shee++
rindolfperlbot: thanks
perlbotrindolf: If you want to thank us, help out by sending some money (even just a little) to the Perl Foundation to help with perl5 development - https://secure.donor.com/pf012/give
rindolfcyber37_guest: ^^^
jkgheh
rindolfcyber37_guest: also feel free to lurk here and learn more or ask more questions.
rindolfcyber37_guest: time >>> money.
rindolfperlbot: time
perlbotrindolf: ($sec,$min,$hour,$mday,$mon,$year,$wday,$yday,$isdst)=localtime(time); OR Modules: Time::Piece, Time::Format, Time::Tiny, etc.
LeoNerd"time. Don't talk to me about time. It's sooooo depressing"
rindolfIf only we had cryptotime - BitDuration.
rindolfAnd no - I don't mean timestamps.
rindolfLeoNerd: heh.
Su-Sheeso. now I wrote 27 tables and didn't try one of them and now I'm going to shove them all into the database with a makefile which of course will explode .. because.. I didn't try any of them.
phxsounds like fun
Su-Sheemostly like "stupid"
rindolfSu-Shee: good luck.
rindolfHubris!
LeoNerdTests are overrated
rindolfWell, a good amount of hubris is useful in moderation.
LeoNerdIf it breaks, your users will let you know
rindolfLeoNerd: heh.
LeoNerd.oO( mine do ;) )
rindolfWe wouldn't have had modern tech without Hubris.
rindolfOr without neophilia.
Su-SheeLeoNerd: I have tests actually. thanks to theory's amazing pgtap/mytap.
jkgthe three virtues of a great programmer: laziness, hubris and necrophilia
_DrForrAlways mount a scratch database.
Su-SheeLeoNerd: haven't adjusted them to the new stuff yet because I can't be bothered to do real TDD ;)
rindolfjkg: necrophilia?
jkghaha
jkgI just realised, I completely misread you.
jkgI did think it was a bit weird...
rindolfjkg: yes, neophilia - love of novelty.
rindolfjkg: possibly being a hipster.
jkgsure, I know the word - I just misread and thought you'd dialled the weirdness up another notch ;)
rindolfBoth neophilia and hubris should be done in moderation.
rindolfwell, arguably a necrophil is someone who uses antiquated stuff.
rindolfLike Thé Symbul in http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Star-Trek/We-the-Living-Dead/ .
* Zoffixsaves jkg's quote for use later out of context :)
jkgZoffix: you're welcome, I guess :)
rindolfHer character was inspired by a very powerful sorceress in the D&D Forgotten Realms world, but in the story, she only has very primitive "superpowers", and is annoyed by always being considered the opposite.
rindolfAnd still she is considered one of the most influential Qs.
rindolfZoffix: meow.
Zoffix\o
rindolfZoffix: how is the 4th of July treating you canuks?
ZoffixOh... Happy 4th of July, all you guys down below :)
rindolfZoffix: heh.
Zoffixrindolf, business as usual. Except with the US company we deal with being closed, I guess all the customers will be calling me today, instead of them :(
rindolfZoffix: what time is it there?
Zoffix6:12am
rindolfZoffix: ah, I see. :-(
rindolfZoffix: will you get paid extra?
rindolfZoffix: ah, good time.
ZoffixFor what?
rindolfZoffix: how's the weather?
rindolfZoffix: for hanlding all their calls?
Zoffixno
rindolfZoffix: I'm trying to find a company to sponsor my summer trip to Europe.
Zoffixheh
rindolfZoffix: I'm willing to be their cheerleader for the duration of the trip.
hufSu-Shee: hmm/
huf?
Su-Sheehuf: too late. ;)
* rindolfcontemplates marrying a chick called Fish and becoming the Fish-Fish family.
rindolfThere are some Miss Fish of English descent who are not Jewish, including some in .us.
LinuxGuyAny ddoser here
rindolfLinuxGuy: what?
rindolfLinuxGuy: no nefarious activity.
rindolfLinuxGuy: and don't PM me.
rindolfLinuxGuy: DDoS is wrong.
LinuxGuyyeah but its right if it perform for good cause
LinuxGuyi can pay for attack
poplLinuxGuy: Wrong channel.
poplLinuxGuy: Go away.
* LinuxGuy(Rock@119.159.20.35) has left
Zoffix*Wrong network
jkgthat was surprisingly effective.
ZoffixAlso... wtf my LShift+* don't work :(
BinGOs>:)
poplbullshit losers
poplsome people make me want to beat them with a rake
BinGOsfllthy infidel
Su-SheeI have no problems whatsoever with a ddos as a political thing. paying for it is stretching it though.
* icke(~anno@p5DDB0683.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined
BinGOsto paraphrase Asimov "DDoS is the last resort of the incompetent"
poplDDoS is stupid.
Su-Sheepopl: maybe. I still don't have a problem with it as a political act. I might find blockades, boycotts or barricades equally stupid.
BinGOswe had to spend money on anti-ddos kit because of idiots.
ZoffixWere you ddosed by the guys who sold you the anti-ddos kit? :)
jkgthat's an excellent marketing strategy.
Zoffixheh yeah, sounds like a good business opportunity.
poplGreat until the court hearing.
BinGOsthey also stop portscans and what-not.
BinGOswhich was the main reason for getting them.
popl$12 wrench beats $2000 anti-DDoS software.
BinGOsthey are network bridges really.
Zoffixpopl, that's why you should find someone online to ddos for you, for payment.
ZoffixOh, wait! That's what LinuxGuy was doing! See? We figured out. LinuxGuy is the guy who sold BinGOs anti-ddos kit :D
poplYour logic is exceedingly Canadian.
Su-SheeI'm familar with deductive and inductive logic and all that.. but canadian..
Zoffixpopl, yes, Canadian logic is invariably brilliant :P
ZoffixAlso, wtf are you gonna do with a $12 wrench?
poplsyrupy
poplZoffix: What would you do with a $12 wrench.
popls/\./\?/
Zoffixpopl, sell it for $20
rindolfAh, LinuxGuy went away.
rindolfZoffix: <Zoffix> Oh, wait! That's what LinuxGuy was doing! See? We figured out. LinuxGuy is the guy who sold BinGOs anti-ddos kit :D ==> heh! Zoffix++
rindolfThis channel is very funny today.
rindolfZoffix: conspiracy theories FTW!
rindolfStop! Reddit time.
dont-paniclol... Did he really think someone was going to do some ddosin' for him?
dont-panicgo play with ping and send exceedingly large and canadian packets
locsmifAnti-ddos? How does that work if it's a packet storm unless you can prune that at the ISP?
Altreusload balancing!
annoddefense
jkgyou just need to set up flow of the same frequency and amplitude, half a phase out of sync.
Channel#perl
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TaglineLife, Liberty and the pursuit of IRC amusement in the absence of .us-ers

MS Comic Chat on Windows 8

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YaakovWARNING: MS Comic Chat runs swimmingly under Windows 8.
rindolfYaakov: heh.
Yaakov# Appears as Yaakov
* davercc(~user@d19-88.rb2.gh.centurytel.net) has joined
rindolfYaakov: ah, comic chat.
YaakovI like Windows 8.1 as much as I have ever liked Windows. I don't want ot use it, but...
rindolfYaakov: is it still maintained?
YaakovIt is abandonware but you can get it.
thrigodd, I found Windows 8 about the first usable version
YaakovI just tested it, and it works like a champ.
rindolfI thought you meant MS Comics Sans.
rindolfYaakov: how are you? How's the wife and kids too?
Yaakovthrig: Windows 3.11, Windows NT, Windows 95 C, Windows XP SP1, Windows 8.1 is my list.
Yaakovrindolf: Well, well. Thanks.
YaakovAlso, Windows Phone 8.1
YaakovBut, I am not a Windows user any more.
spookahi can't stand 8.1 =\
rindolfYaakov: did you donate some of your patented GREAT HUGE LOVE™ for needy people recently? ;-)
YaakovThough I have machines that run it, and a Windows 8.1 phone.
YaakovI haven't declaimed it in this channel. But it must be spontaneous to be real, so it will have to wait until it happens "by itseI LOVE YOU ALL WITH A GREAT HUGE LOVE
YaakovOh. There.
rindolfYaakov: :-)
rindolfYaakov: I LOVE YOU WITH MY OWN GREAT HUGE LOVE TOO.
rindolfSpread the LOVE!
rindolfSpread the GREAT HUGE LOVE!
rindolfShare and enjoy the great huge love.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineCan’t get enough of Yaakov’s GREAT HUGE LOVE

Jobs, Emma Watson, Saladin & Knights Templar

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johndoemerwhat is the best way to find a nice job doing perl in los angeles?
rindolfjohndoemer: jobs.perl.org?
rindolfjohndoemer: there's also the LA Perl mongers.
rindolfjohndoemer: and a jobs mailing list.
johndoemerI never did a mailing list since in like 95 when I got 500 emails in 1 day from one
johndoemerare they safe?
rindolfjohndoemer: note that I'm trying not to be picky about which jobs I get - http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/Emma-Watson-applying-for-a-software-dev-job/ ?
rindolfjohndoemer: what do you mean by "safe"?
preactionjohndoemer: you can set up filters. also, the pm lists are usually pretty low-volume
rindolfjohndoemer: what is the worst thing you suspect will happen?
johndoemerI guess I never learned how to use a mailing list
johndoemerso I sign up and how do I read it without getting 500 emails a day?
preactionlook at the archives to see how many e-mails get sent per day
johndoemerI dunno I just gota escape this unix admin job stuff im doing
rindolfjohndoemer: put it in a separate folder.
johndoemerjust the interviews driving me batty
johndoemerfuck ansible and chef
rindolfWhat is ansible?
rindolfIs it a Ruby thing?
johndoemeremma watson is butt
johndoemerliek a 3
johndoemershort with no boobs
rindolfjohndoemer: butt?
johndoemercrappy hair
johndoemerlooks liek a dude
rindolfjohndoemer: :-(.
johndoemerzomg some brits think shes hottes twoman in film?
johndoemeroh my gods!!
johndoemerbutt ugly
johndoemerfake teeth and a lack of implples doesnt mean your pretty
johndoemercaveman brow
johndoemershort with no tits or ass
johndoemerzomg
preactioni'm fairly certain that this is not on-topic for #perl
Grinnzlol
rindolfjohndoemer: maybe you should change your attitude. After I reached enought enlightenment, I find the vast majority of women attractive enough.
johndoemerholy crap did they make 8 harry potter films?
rindolfjohndoemer: but preaction is right.
rindolfjohndoemer: yes.
preaction7 books, +1 last split in two
johndoemerthe first was one of worst movies ever and glorification of government school elitism over capitalism is gross garbage
johndoemerdid harry ever even pork her?
rindolfjohndoemer: pork?
preactioni'm not sure how that tracks, but this is still not a #perl topic
johndoemerI thought uk was protestant and all the girls got the pill at 15 and its was fun fun fun
johndoemerfuck
Grinnzso anyway
rindolfjohndoemer: you have a strange jargon.
johndoemeranna nicole smith si hot
johndoemervanessa montagne
johndoemersarenna lee
johndoemerpamela anderson
flight18wow
johndoemernot emma watson
rindolfjohndoemer: and I hope you don't have this attitude IRL.
johndoemerjeesh
johndoemerfor 20 years
preactioni wish he didn't have it here, either
johndoemerok
rindolfjohndoemer: please stop.
johndoemerI will say this
johndoemerrover is < than mad max
johndoemerbad movie
johndoemerok
johndoemerso why is mojo better than dancer?
rindolfjohndoemer: some people may disagree that it is.
rindolfperlbot: mojo
perlbotrindolf: Perl
flight18johndoemer, what did you think of her performance in The Bling Ring?
rindolfperlbot: mojolicious
perlbotrindolf: No factoid found. Did you mean one of these: [makealias] [mkalias]
Grinnzol
Grinnzthat wasn't very helpful perlbot
johndoemerhttp://jobs.perl.org/job/18908 I wonder how they pay for expert in perl and SQL, 180K?
rindolfjohndoemer: 180KUSD/year?
johndoemerus $
johndoemerI mean an expert in perl must make 125k minimum
johndoemeradd that database wizardrdy
johndoemerSQL
johndoemeretc
Grinnzahaha
johndoemermust bump it up no?
johndoemerhell I was making 80/h doing linux
johndoemerbut this whole chef thing got outa hand
rindolfjohndoemer: most Perl people know SQL to some extent.
johndoemerI think some java idiots decided lets automate away sysadmins so they wont tell us we are morons
johndoemerI know sql
johndoemerbut what version of "expert" I am I dont know
rindolfjohndoemer: you may wish to read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Shlomif/Saladin_Style
johndoemerhas everything got to be javacscript now? I hate javascrpt websites with hot red passion
flight18After Harry and Ron save her from a mountain troll in the girls' toilets, she becomes close friends with them and often uses her quick wit, deft recall, and encyclopaedic knowledge to help them.
johndoemerslaad style? like th ebig lizard men from fiend folio?
rindolfjohndoemer: I use NoScript.
rindolfflight18: what?
rindolfjohndoemer: Saladin style.
flight18Pretty amazing, huh?
johndoemerwhos that?
rindolfjohndoemer: Saladin was « Ṣalāḥ ad-Dīn Yūsuf ibn Ayyūb (Arabic: صلاح الدين يوسف بن أيوب‎; Kurdish: سه‌لاحه‌دین ئه‌یوبی , Selahedînê Eyûbî) (1137/1138 – March 4, 1193), better known in the Western world as Saladin was a Muslim Sultan who liberated most of Palestine from the rule of the Knights Templar and the Christian crusaders,»
johndoemerpaladin? like a holy warrior?
rindolfjohndoemer: the first true Hacker Monarch/Warrior Monarch.
Grinnzsounds like a guy that should have been in assassin's creed 1 :)
Grinnzah, he was
johndoemerI want a movie whwereknights templar kill a lot of bad guys
johndoemerthats be awesome
rindolfGrinnz: heh.
johndoemerknights of the round table!
johndoemeryeah!
rindolfjohndoemer: King Arthur predates the knights templar.
rindolfjohndoemer: there were quite a few films about Saladin.
Grinnzjohndoemer, except in assassin's creed, the knights templar are the bad guys ;)
johndoemerwhy bad?
johndoemerdidnt they guard the galazxy against evil for athousdan generations?
johndoemerusing the force?
rindolfThe Legend of Robin Hood is generally set in the time of Richard I/Saladin, but the earliest british records predate that.
rindolfjohndoemer: heh.
Grinnzjohndoemer, because they want to control the world, etc
johndoemerawesome
johndoemersame as the brits did briefly eh
rindolfGrinnz: well, the Knights Templar started as paranoid, murderous and violent and mostly mentally ill.
johndoemermenatlly ill?
johndoemerhah
johndoemersmart sounds like to me
johndoemerhad multinatinoal mob
johndoemeri bet they hid lots of hot women in thier holds
johndoemern a[prtied
johndoemersign me up
Grinnzdo you by chance have any foreign substances in your bloodstream?
johndoemerunix adminning is pissing me off
rindolfGrinnz: and after Saladin was throught with them, they were happy, noble, peaceful mostly sane, and unwilling to fight him.
johndoemernop
johndoemerjust pissed at bad unix admin job interviews gone bad
johndoemerand outa work
johndoemernot sure what to do
preactionget your skills up-to-date with the new orchestration technologies?
flight18johndoemer, why are you here?
johndoemerfor fun
johndoemeru?
johndoemerI kinda dont believe in cronfig maangemtn orchestraaation
preactionthis is a Perl support channel. the Perl chat channel is on irc.perl.org
johndoemerI believe in client server computing
johndoemerand concurrency at language level, name based virtual hosts
johndoemeretc
Grinnzthere are people who don't believe in name based virtual hosts?
preactionhow is any of that against configuration management?
johndoemerwell why have 10 urls on 10 vms mate, if u can have 10 on 2 servers, with name based virtual hosts eh?
* grettishas quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
preactioni don't like setting up boxes over and over and over again. i like getting a config right and then copying it to dozens or hundreds of machines, as i'm sure most admins also like
preactionbut then, i like the idea of rexify.org, where i can run adhoc scripts on multiple machines on the command line. from what i saw, ansible and chef don't allow that
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode

Hear me roar, Katy Perry, and idiots vs. geniuses

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Altreusmeow
rindolfAltreus: meow.
rindolfAltreus: sup?
Altreusrindolf: -_-
rpagwoof
rindolfrpag: roar!
rpagive brought out the bear
rindolfrpag: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CevxZvSJLk8 - you're gonna hear me roar!
Altreusrpag: you were supposed to bring the /beer/
Altreus._.
rpagrindolf, o dear i cant listen to that, reminds me of my recent ex-gf
rpagAltreus, :)
rindolfrpag: heh, what was wrong with her?
rpagnothing, she just listened to katy perry all the time
rindolfrpag: ah, I see.
rindolfrpag: why did you break up?
Altreusoh I thought maybe she roared a lot
rpaghaha
Altreusrindolf: duh, because she liked katy perry a lot
rpagshe did, sometimes :)
rindolfAltreus: heh.
rindolfAltreus++
rpagrindolf, because i'm an idiot :P
rindolfrpag: ah.
rindolfrpag: you're an idiot who writes Perl?
rindolfOnly geniuses can write Perl.
spbno, any idiot can write perl
spbonly geniuses can read it
rindolfspb: heh.
jkgonly geniuses can read perl written by an idiot
rpagi haven't written perl, or any language, in a while, writers block or something
Altreusrpag: not even English?
rpag:P
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode

“Required Joke about Emacs”

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qizwizso I can't do a recursive include with PERL5LIB?
qizwizI have to defend every code change and this is really for my own use (emacs)
rindolfqizwiz: you can try using File::Find or whatever.
hufqizwiz: depends on how you set it
hufshell has glob too :)
hufor you can write a script and symlink everything together and include a single dir
annorecursive?
maukeuse an overlay mount!
huffish bananas old pajamas butter'd scones for lunch?
Grinnz_qizwiz: theres no such thing as a recursive lib dir; you need a base lib dir, so that things like Some::Deep::Namespace::Module can be found at Some/Deep/Namespace/Module.pm
Grinnz_it doesn't search very hard for these things, it just goes by @INC
* ImaginaryFriendhas quit (Quit: leaving)
qizwizor I could just use emacs itself to build the env variable. That's probably easiest.
Alchemyqizwiz, http://perldoc.perl.org/lib.html
Grinnz_well, "easiest" would be to remake the "cpan modules" dir by using cpanm or something to download whatever specific versions you need ;)
kaitlyn<required joke about emacs here>
Alchemy<required joke about plumbers fixing emacs problem>
qizwizGrinnz: that's not an obvious solution to me. What do you mean exactly?
Grinnz_qizwiz: instead of having cpan modules installed in different lib dirs, install them all to the same lib dir
sproingie@INC can contain functions, but that's getting even more insane
Grinnz_they are designed to coincide
rindolfkaitlyn: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=sharp-sharp-programming-your-emacs-so-fat
sproingiedebugging a dynamic @INC will be hell on wheels
Grinnz_qizwiz: and cpanm can be directed to install a specific version of a module with "cpanm Module::Name@1.2345"
Grinnz_but you'd have to set it up so it's installing to the right dir first
sproingiecarton is perfect for that
Grinnz_right, or that
kaitlynrindolf: All joking aside, emacs is a great editor. I just don't know enough LISP to properly start it.
sproingiewait, emacs is also an editor?
kaitlynsproingie: I'm pretty sure it's an IRC client.
Grinnz_i thought it was another improved replacement for sysvinit
qizwizsproingie: Actually, not really. I can take whatever function I'm runing on emacs that's going to hit @INC in some way and 'advise' it to set the PERL5LIB variable before it's run. I can even cache it to make it more performant
sproingiei'm sure the next systemd will have emacs built in
rindolfGrinnz_: heh.
Grinnz_sproingie: not sure, i think it will be the other way around
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode

How Chuck Norris learnt Perl

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dyre17Are there any videos to supplement http://learn.perl.org/ ?
rindolfdyre17: szabgab has released some.
ologyThere are a number of perl topics on slideshare
thrigdyre17: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5KYZ74OAak
pink_mistif you search for 'yapc' on youtube, you'll find loads of perl talks; not all of them are introductory though.
rindolfdyre17: I also created http://perl-begin.org/ .
tipdbmpdyre17, you could check the videos from some YAPC conferences: https://www.youtube.com/user/yapcna/playlists
SoltisI still don't understand why perldoc isn't enough to learn perl
SoltisBut I've also accepted that it apparently isn't for most people.
hekmekwith prior coding experience it is
hekmekotherwise probably not :O)
pink_mistdifferent people learn differently too
thrig"Mark Hamill reads perldocs" (video: someone paging through the perldocs)
sproingiei could listen to John Noble read the perldocs
pink_mistheh
rindolfthrig: Chuck Norris has the whole perldocs memorised.
pink_mistsproingie: that the dad from fringe?
BinGOsMark Hamill playing the Joker reading perldocs
Soltishekmek: My prior experience was TCPL 2nd ed.
sproingiepink_mist: and the horseman of war in sleepy hollow, yep
Soltisrindolf: Chuck Norris learned perl by scrutinizing the surface of a magnetic platter holding a copy of the perl binary.
rindolfSoltis: heh.
hekmekI'd always suggest reading books on computer science and then some official doc on whatever language you wanna learn
ologyThen he round house kicked Guido
rindolfSoltis: Chuck Norris was born knowing Perl.
rindolfBefore it was created.
Soltisrindolf: No, that was Gauss
pink_mistSoltis: don't you mean Summer Glau?
Soltispink_mist: No, she's fictional.
Soltispink_mist: Summer Glau is a figment of Chuck Norris's imagination.
rindolfSoltis: she is not.
rindolfSoltis: for all you know, you may not exist, and Chuck Norris convinced you that you do.
Soltisrindolf: No, I'm a brain in a jar somewhere.
rindolfSoltis: Chuck Norris knows where that jar is. ;-)
Soltisrindolf: I just come to #perl when they push LSD into my nutrient bath.
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode

Forking LeoNerd

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LeoNerdI usually try to avoid the problem by just never taking over anything anyone else has written ;) Though Socket and S-L-U are sortof exceptions there... :/
sproingiei tend to do more forks than maintenance, so i just put my name up at the top, then "based on <original name> by <original author> <original copyright here>"
LeoNerdExcept that forks are generally terrible things to do to software
Altreususe threads
* Grinnz_forks LeoNerd to LeoNerd::Simple
thrigI once fought with your father, during the fork wars
sproingieLeoNerd::Simple::ButMaintained
LeoNerdA fork tends to divide the community of other contributors, weakening the pool of potential improvements on either side
LeoNerdIt's a sortof last-ditch attempt
Su-Sheewho would ever ditch LeoNerd.. ;)
* LeoNerdhopes nobody suggests LeoNerd::Tiny
sproingiethe stuff i fork tends to be fairly obscure anyway
* rindolfsuggests LeoNerd::Minuscule
alpha-Leo::Nerd
sproingiecPanel::LeoNerd
thrigLeoNerd::MaybeXS
cfeddesome times it would be nice to have a simple CLI for LeoNerd.
maukemCGI::LeoNerd
rindolfDevel::REPL::LeoNerd
maukemLeoNerd6
AltreusLeoNerd: why, are you getting bloated?
Altreusfeature reep
Altreusc
AltreusFeature: creep
Su-SheeI would fall off my chair of laughter just now if I wouldn't sit on a futon...
LeoNerdAltreus: No, I just don't see why I need to be able to be installed on a no-deps core-only setup :)
AltreusAren't you core?
sproingieuse feature 'creep';
Altreus#perl without LeoNerd in it is not a complete installation
Su-Sheeso true. :)
LeoNerdI still wonder if I should have taken the CPAN name 'LEONERD' instead
Altreusoh I just asked the previous maintainer for someone's address and then found it earlier in the pod -_-
Su-SheeLeoNerd: OF COURSE YOU SHOULD HAVE
AltreusLeoNerd: we all have regrets
AltreusLeoNerd: why not both dot jpg
sproingieegrets, i've had a few
Su-SheeLeoNerd: who on earth - other than your parents - knows you're pevans?!
AltreusI feel reasonably unique in having my nick on cpan
LeoNerdSu-Shee: wellll... the prevailing theme on PAUSE does seem to be initial lastname
LeoNerdSo I just went with that
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode

Ewwww

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ZadYreeoh, thanks
rindolftm604++ # Helping ZadYree
ZadYreerindolf, eww ;)
rindolfZadYree: mewww!
pink_mist0_o eww?
ZadYreeEww!
rindolfpink_mist: ZadYree and I say "ewwww" to each other for greeting or approval.
blue_skynot oooh?
rindolfpink_mist: it started from a conversation we had when I said I'm going to say "Ewwwww" for everything people told me about what they were doing.
rindolfpink_mist: after someone told me "XML? Ewwwww!" when I told him I'm working with XML.
rindolfSo I said something like "You ate an apple? Ewwww!"
pink_mistrindolf: heh, right :P
rindolfpink_mist: ewwww!
rindolf;-)
pink_mistnow I'm going to go into town and get pizza ... it's horrible being out in the countryside and not being able to get pizza without making it yourself! =(
Soltispizza: ewww!
rindolfpink_mist: Pizza! Yum yum.
rindolfSoltis: heh, you're doing it right.
rindolfSoltis++
ZadYreeFinally works fine playing with scalar context. Damn, such solutions make me understand I am way far from mastering Perl.
rindolfZadYree: awesome.
tm604perlbot, lists and things
perlbottm604: http://altreus.blogspot.com/2011/08/lists-and-things-made-of-lists.html
tm604^ might help
SoltisHomemade pizza while living in the sticks-- that brings back traumatic memories.
Soltis(PROTIP: never use whole wheat under-aged sourdough for pizza crust)
snakpakewww indeed
SoltisMy parents were not good cooks.
SoltisStill aren't, actually.
SoltisIf someone tells me their food is just like my mother used to make, I'll run for the hills.
Altreuspink_mist: it's horrible being in town and getting pizza you don't make yourself, though
Altreusunless you have a Pizza Stop like we do cos they do really good pizza
AltreusDO YOU
vagueAltreus, how about a pizza place where you make your own pizza?
vagueWith all the toppings
rindolfperlbot: vague
perlbotrindolf: vague question is really, really vague, in fact it's so fucking vague that you can't even caption a cat with it because the cat would DIE OF VAGUE | http://www.trout.me.uk/vague.jpg
rindolfvague: you must get highlighted a lot.
vaguerindolf, I do. Stop using my name so frivolously
rindolfvague: OK.
vagueThank you :)
jkgdo not take vague's name in vague.
jkgI mean, in vain.
Altreus/nick vain
Altreusoi
vagueDon't take it at all. I have it registered and ghosted!
Altreusvague: sounds like an excuse to charge customers for the privilege of saving you money
vagueWhatever floats my boat
Altreusbouyancy
poplimagination
poplvague doesn't have a boat
Altreusirrelevant
AltreusBoats all float by the same mechanic
Altreusif there's no boat there's no float and the physics doesn't matter
poplAltreus: imagined boats can float by whichever mechanics the imaginer decides.
Altreussurely they can't float at all
Altreussince the floating would also be imaginary
SoltisImagined boats are sususpended by vague plausibility.
DrForr_That's far too compelex for this discussion.
AltreusSoltis is just gratuitously highlighting vague, which I am all for
Altreusfor which I am all
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode

Booleans in Perl

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rindolfVarsuchi: but "true" is not a Perl built-in.
Varsuchi..........
Varsuchiso 1 or 0 then
Varsuchiinstead of true?
Grinnz_usually, yes
rindolfperlbot: false
perlbotrindolf: undef, 0, "", "0"
rindolfVarsuchi: just use it in boolean context.
Varsuchiwhile x = 1 for true
Varsuchi..
Varsuchisure
rindolfVarsuchi: « while ($run) { ... }»
Grinnz_my $run = 1; while ($run) { ... }
Varsuchididdnt know perl didnt support bools
Varsuchimakes sense!
Grinnz_it does, just everything is a bool
Altreusit does support bools, it just doesn't select two values and name them
hufbecause bool is a way of looking at things
hufnot a thing itself
* annolooks at huf boolishly
AltreusVarsuchi: true is a property of a value, not a value
hufanno: and i'm truthy
annoi see
pink_mistmy $huf = 0; #my huf isn't truthy :P
Altreusit's truthy, it's just not truey
Grinnz_our $huf = ''; # our huf is empty inside
pink_mistour @huf = (); # it's just an empty shell
hufnone of those are me
Altreus1 while <huf>
pink_mistsub huf { "he's also submissive" }
* Altreushas a handle on huf
hufHEY! i wear clothes, dont make me out to be one of those nudist handles
hufpink_mist: let's go with that
pink_mistit returns a true value after all :P
hufbut really, i'm a starry eyed shepherd
Channel#perl
NetworkFreenode
TaglineThe true meaning of truthfulness.