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Freenode #perl Conversations - (Fortunes Cookies) Shlomi Fish’s Collection

About

Collection of conversations from Freenode’s IRC Network #perl channel and other related quotes.

Table of Contents

The Fortunes Themselves

Documentation for BL

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rindolf buu: do you have a working manual of BL?
rindolf s/working/up-to-date/
buu It's kind of sort of up to date
perlygatekeeper he means NO
buu I've got some docs!
rindolf buu: do you have a functional spec? An architecture document? An interface whitepaper? A developer's guide? A user manual? A "The BL-Book" and "BL - The Program"?
buu rindolf: no, no, no no and no
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Discussing the merits of documenting one's pet languages on #perl

Did anybody see my newline at Freenode's #perl channel.

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rindolf sleeper: why are people obsessed with one-liners?
rindolf It takes 3 lines - OMG what a disaster!
Botje rindolf: newline prices went up again
rindolf Botje: I buy my newlines in the black market
dabreegster Botje: again? drat.
* Botje reports rindolf to the newline police
dabreegster Botje: I know about an... (underground) operation going on to pirate newlines.
rindolf Botje: I bribed a few cops in the newline police, but nice try.
dabreegster Botje: Some crazy guys are trying to free newlines from patents! They want to rid the market!
* cursor gets called up to serve in the newline jury
rindolf I think we need to start a campaign to lift all restrictions off newlines.
dabreegster rindolf: La Resistance lives on!\n
Botje I already stockpiled millions of newlines
dabreegster Botje: We can have the one-liners destroyed by sundown
dabreegster Not destroyed, but... TURNED INTO TWO-LINERS! Mwuhahaha!
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline The Cost of Newlines

Verbing the verb on Freenode's #perl

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* buu Stevie[FP] with a plunger.
* Stevie[FP] looks for the verb in that sentence
sili i think you're missing a verb
Stevie[FP] I think he's missing a brain.
sili unless Stevie[FP] is a verb i don't know
sili Stevie[FP]: v. see Stevie[FP]
Stevie[FP] I am not a verb!
sili you've been verbatized
* rindolf Stevie[FP]'s Chris62vw
Stevie[FP] verbalized?
rindolf Stevie[FP]: verbalized is a different thing.
rindolf Stevie[FP]: it comes from "verbal".
Stevie[FP] Verbified.
Stevie[FP] Verbiated.
rindolf stefan: verbificated.
Botje verbed.
Stevie[FP] Verberated.
rindolf Stevie[FP]: verberation is overrated.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Verbing the Verb

Human XML

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BarnacleBob i hate xml.....
mcrawfor <response to="BarnacleBob">indeed</response>
rindolf mcrawfor: :-)
rindolf mcrawfor++ # Nice joke
Botje ehm. ouch.
Botje rindolf: no!
Botje <postincrement comment="Nice joke">mcrawfor</postincrement>
rindolf Botje: LOL.
rindolf <postincrement comment="As you wish">Botje</postincrement>
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Human XML

/me (or I, you or we) is finding it amusing on Freenode's #perl.

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* __you fart
* __you say "oops"
rindolf __you: heh
* __you kick rindolf
__you (rindolf, you're now being kicked by 435 people)
squeeks __you need to go outside.
kspath __you: Who owns you?
* __you go outside
* __you are pwned by dazjorz
* __you is now known as we
* we are having a useless off-topic conversation right now
rindolf we: hahah
* we is now known as __you
* __you decide this channel is now useless and decide to leave
* simcop2387 is now known as we
* we are not amused
* __you and I are together simcop2387
* squeeks is now known as _I_
* _I_ need to tell __you something
* __you listen
* simcop2387 is now known as we
* we need help
* _I_ think we are getting a bit sick of the shenanigans
rindolf I'm so making a fortune out of it.
* we want to be on bash.org
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline /me (or I, you or we) is finding it amusing

Multi-linguality

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spyro_boy Oh! I fixed it :D
spyro_boy Yay :D
rindolf spyro_boy: congrats!
spyro_boy Thanks for your help, everyone. :)
rindolf spyro_boy: now you should translate this script to O'Caml, Haskell, Perl 6.
spyro_boy rindolf, huh?
rindolf spyro_boy: Smalltalk, C, C++, Visual Basic...
spyro_boy rindolf, translate to what?
rindolf spyro_boy: to all these programming languages.
spyro_boy haha
spyro_boy rindolf, yeah.
rindolf Because a script in perl is Not Enough<tm>.
rindolf spyro_boy: but see the Great Computer Language Shootout.
spyro_boy rindolf, I tried learning C,C++, and Java, but I couldn't catch on.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Mulit-linguality

Chuck Norris and Perl 6

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rindolf wankit
buubot Perl 6, unlike most people, is able to breathe in the vacuum of space. In fact, anything else would damage its respiratory system. Because of this, whenever it's visiting Earth, it wears a respirator, which resembles a kickass beard.
rindolf Heh heh.
rindolf Are all of buubot's wankit factoids about Perl 6?
rindolf He should have some about Chuck Norris, too.
merlyn fictional factoids about a partially designed, partially implemented, partially wanted language. :)
rindolf merlyn: yeah.
merlyn Heh - those are all Chuck Norris quotes with s/Chuck/P6/
dabreegster rindolf: It's written in Chuck Norris, right
merlyn Chuck Norris writes code in Perl 6. Before Larry's done. And it works.
rindolf merlyn: Chuck Norris wrote Perl 6 in a day but then destroyed all evidence with his bare hands, so no one will know his secrets.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Chuck Norris and Perl 6

Is a Life Ready for Prime Time?

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rindolf LeoNerd: I need to get a life.
LeoNerd They can be quite useful, but they do have a crazy amount of dependencies..
LeoNerd And sometimes they can be a bit unstable - I think they're still beta-testing
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Is a Life Ready for Prime Time

#perl for Elisabeth

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simcop2387 Daveman: i use a ZED PEE EM to power my computer, its the ultimate YOU PEE ES
* Daveman throws an Elisabeth at Simcop
rindolf Me catches the Elisabeth in mid-air.
SubStack with an s, excellent choice
Daveman :o
Daveman Interception!
rindolf Daveman: when my friend and I played Frisbee, we had an intra-tree move.
* SubStack pirates Elisabeth and seeds a torrent
rindolf Which was unintended.
rindolf Elisabeth: are you here?
Daveman HAHAHAHHA
Daveman Substack++
* SubStack wins at life.
rindolf An Elisabeth for all! And all for an Elisabeth.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline #perl for Elisabeth

Books for Learning Perl

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Alexi5 what is a good book for getting up to speed with perl?
merlyn learning perl!
merlyn intermediate perl!
nachos_ the camel is the _only book_
nachos_ :-P
* merlyn bats nachos silly
nachos_ :-(
rindolf Alexi5: there's also Beginning Perl, which is available online.
* f00li5h saw that coming
rindolf You should learn Perl from "Learning Perl in 24 minutes Unleashed!"
f00li5h rindolf: ``Learning perl in 24 minutes Unleashed, in a nutshell for dummies'' is the one i have
rindolf f00li5h: that's even better.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Books for Learning Perl

Discussing Vintage Hypertext on Freenode's #perl

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rindolf Are you using Firefox?
Imaginativeone yeah...
rindolf Interesting...
rindolf Don't know.
[x86] use a real browser... you know... like IE!
* [x86] runs
infi IE 3 > *
rindolf IE 2 > *
infi gopher!
infi firefox can actually do gopher URLs
rindolf GNU info!
infi feh.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Vintage Hypertext

Free as in what?

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rindolf ofer0: what's up?
ofer0 rindolf, nothing much. what's with you?
rindolf ofer0: I restored my fonts to my nouveau-enabled X server.
jagerman What is nouveau?
ofer0 jagerman, "new" in french ?
jagerman Yes, I know it's a word, but what is the nouveau rindolf is talking about?
ofer0 I have no idea. rindolf ?
rindolf jagerman, ofer0: it's the free-as-in-speech Nvidia drivers.
dmq jagerman++ (Yes i know its a word).
pkrumins free as in freedom
nainef free as in richard stallman?
ofer0 free as in free Microsoft Windows Vista CDs
nainef lol
pkrumins vista--
ofer0 "What do you mean? Windows XP isn't free?" -- My neighbour.
Ikarus ofer0: sounds familiar
ofer0 (when telling him that I can't format his hard-drive and re-install XP because he doesn't own a license)
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Free as in what?

The Only Programming Language

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rindolf This reminds me of a fun discussion I had with my co-worker.
rindolf He had a Firefox window open with an ActiveState page and I read "Perl, PHP, Python, Tcl, XSLT".
rindolf So he said: "Heresy! C is the only language."
rindolf So I thought for a moment and said "Intercal is the only language."
nanonyme lol
rindolf And then "Real men write in Intercal."
rindolf "COME FROM" anyone?
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline The Only Programming Language

Misleading Textbooks about Perl

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rindolf mortal5: you need to print the header.
rindolf mortal5: print header()
mortal5 rindolf, ...I absolutely love it when my textbook leads me wrong..
rindolf mortal5: what is your textbook?
mortal5 "web wizards guide to perl and cgi"
mortal5 lol
mortal5 only the finest for the students at my university
buu Hahaha
buu That's awesome.
cfedde Is this what we're teacing these days? Oh my.
somian Blows the mind, doesn't it cfedde!
cfedde somian: it does.
cfedde I suppose that I'm commenting out of context. but why the mix and match.
f3ew What mind?
cfedde yours, with this .48
* somian sends in CSI las vegas to clean up
rindolf mortal5: what is your university?
mortal5 rindolf, I'm too ashamed to tell :p
rindolf mortal5: heh.
rindolf mortal5: is it bad?
mortal5 rindolf, no not really, we have a fairly well known cs dept
somian Just so long as it isn't SUNY@BUFFALO
mortal5 it's just the teacher i'm using, she's a total flake
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Misleading Textbooks about Perl

Perl, dongs and everything between on Freenode's #perl

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* CPAN rating: Net-DNS-Check rated 4 stars by Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
rindolf Oooh! avar has rated a module.
somian^{} avar! WHAT ARE YOU DOING rating CPAN modules!?! Do you really think you are QUALIFIED to be doing that!?! ;-P
* avar dongs somian^{}
* somian^{} laughs
avar somian^{}: I'M A PROFESSIONAL PERL PROGRAMMER
avar I know PERL
somian^{} But can u mAke teh weB with teh PERL!?
Earle_Martin avar: I know DONGS
avar Earle_Martin: SHOW ME
avar Earle_Martin: Don't you mean DONG foo?
* somian^{} has a silly grin on his face as he decends the stairs to make some fresh coffee
avar somian^{}: I maek teh web really well with PERL
Earle_Martin /DCC MATRIX avar
avar Earle_Martin: IT'S SO LARGE AND HARD!
Earle_Martin avar: You think that's milk you're drinking?
f3ew heh]
avar I was wondering why it was so delcicious
avar "I can't belive it's not jizz"
f3ew Take the red pill
rfordinal_ blue!
Earle_Martin I know PERL: Programmer's Elite Robotic Language
* avar goes back to work
Shadow42 I wonder what would happen if Neo was colorblind and took the wrong pill.
Earle_Martin 10 DO ROBOT DANCE
Earle_Martin 20 GOTO 10
avar which doesn't involving discussing dongs in great detail, unfortunately
Earle_Martin avar: the real world sucks
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Perl and Dongs on Freenode's #perl

N-uple negative on Freenode's #perl

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polak mauke: so how does that "translate" into eng
merlyn "eng"?
mauke I spe eng goo
rindolf mauke: I spe eng wel
rindolf I spe goo eng
sts just a short question. besides personal preference is there any difference if you use if(! or unless(?
rindolf sts: no.
rindolf sts: they do the same thing.
Botje sts: pfft. Real Men(tm) use unless(!...)
rindolf Botje: heh.
sts lol unless(! makes sense. thanks Botje, i'll rather use this one. =D
LeoNerd For me it's a readability thing - I express what seems more likely
rindolf Botje: File::HomeDir used to have a triple or quadruple negative in one of its test files.
Botje unless(! $str !~ /(?!foo)/)
rindolf Botje: heh
merlyn whoa
merlyn unless (!) makes no sense to me at all
Botje of course not.
sts Botje: wow!
Botje it's still cool to confuse people with :]
LeoNerd Heh.. Should just use !!! in there anywa y:)
merlyn it's 7 characters too many
xand some people don't understand double negatives
merlyn I don't want no complaints!
Botje xand: you mean don't not understnad?
LeoNerd We don't know nobody who don't want no double-negatives
sts Botje: what does (?!foo) do?
nanonyme lol
xand Botje: don't not misunderstand
mauke Botje: that always executes the block
merlyn there's an argument that can be successfully made that "I don't want no complaints" doesn't necessarily work logically
Botje xand: oh, I don't not think I didn't not misunderstand you.
Botje mauke: I know. it just looks cool.
mauke and you want !($str !~ /.../)
xand don't you?#
merlyn so it might actually mean what people think they're meaning
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline N-uple negative on Freenode's #perl

My operating system is better than yours on Freenode's #perl

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Yaakov LINUX < WINDOWS XP
rindolf Yaakov: Linux ">" x Inf Windows XP
rindolf Yaakov: DOS > Linux
rindolf Yaakov: CTSS > Linux
rindolf Yaakov: TOPS-10 > Linux
rindolf Multics > Linux
rindolf Multics > *
rindolf I think I'll stop.
Supaplex I think I'll /clear
Kobaz CP/M > *
rindolf Kobaz: heh!
rindolf Kobaz++
Kobaz Heh.
Kobaz CP/M was teh sexy.
Kobaz How much more of an OS do you really need?
Kobaz I still have my Apple II sitting in the corner.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline My Operating System is Better than Yours

Freenode's #perl on the many types of Wheels.

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rindolf Mahmoud: what's up?
Mahmoud rindolf, writing a CMS from scratch with perl.. really cool, making my own template engine
rindolf Mahmoud: why???
rindolf Mahmoud: use TT2.
rindolf Or whatever.
Mahmoud rindolf, i dislike other CMS engines.. they are bloated and i don't trust them
rindolf Mahmoud: TT2 is pure perl.
* Mahmoud looks for TT2
rindolf Mahmoud: a CMS doesn't stay simple forever.
rindolf Mahmoud: and a CMS != Templating system.
Mahmoud rindolf, the template engine is quite simple, it's similar to how SimpleMachines forum does its templates
Mahmoud rindolf, just an external file with print 'foo'; commands
amnesiac Mahmoud, TT2 is very powerful
amnesiac Mahmoud, there are more templating systems, why not use any ofo the existing ones?
rindolf Mahmoud: please don't re-invent square wheels.
Mahmoud heh..
NOTevil oval!
* amnesiac likes hexagonal wheels
NOTevil very small octagon wheels aren't too bad.
rindolf amnesiac: triangular wheels are the best!
Shaine i like star shaped wheels :/
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline On the Many Types of Wheels

The Pyramid of Code Golf on Freenode's #perl

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ferret LeoNerd: That was one of the first blobs of Java I wrote, it's allowed to be even more verbose and convoluted than Java normally is. ;P
rindolf ferret: link?
ferret /las Cat.java
rindolf ferret: an implementation of the UNIX "cat" program in Java??
ferret Actually, specifically the GNU cat program, and only a subset thereof.
rindolf ferret: oh.
rindolf ferret: how many lines did it take?
* f00li5h heads off to #codegolf and tries to convince them to allow java submissions
ferret rindolf: It's mostly argument parser.
rindolf ferret: I once implemented a parser for a subset of the Bourne Shell args, in really hideous ANSI C.
rindolf f00li5h: good luck.
rindolf f00li5h: Java Golf...
f00li5h yeah, for sure!
rindolf Java Golf would be longer than a non-Golfed Perl program.
f00li5h rindolf: this is true
rindolf f00li5h: COBOL Golf!
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline The Pyramid of Code Golf

Scary Perl Expertise on Freenode's #perl

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pasteling "struggling intern" at 129.162.1.31 pasted "Here it is.." (220 lines, 5.7K) at http://sial.org/pbot/25279
strugglingintern woohoo
strugglingintern there it goes...
rindolf strugglingintern: oh my god!
rindolf strugglingintern: this code looks really bad.
strugglingintern heh...
rindolf strugglingintern: if ($records eq 0 ) - don't you want ($records == 0)?
rindolf strugglingintern: do you have unit tests?
rindolf strugglingintern: and you should factor it better.
rindolf strugglingintern: and possibly use Template Toolkit or something.
rindolf strugglingintern: and you may have some HTML-injection (or XSS) problems.
Ani-_ rindolf: and probably SQL injection problems.
rindolf Ani-_: indeed!
strugglingintern :-/
Ani-_ strugglingintern: really, ask them to review that code when they get back.
strugglingintern alright
strugglingintern I appreciate it anyway
rindolf strugglingintern: how long have you been programming perl?
strugglingintern hah, about 3 months
strugglingintern This isn't all my code ;)
strugglingintern I'll look into it
strugglingintern Thanks guys (and gals).
rindolf strugglingintern: you're welcome.
strugglingintern not my choice ;)
strugglingintern it's my 3rd week here :)
rindolf Amazing how much more experienced programmers can tell a code is bad from a quick glance.
rindolf It's a bit scary.
Ani-_ nothing amazing about it. It's called skill. :)
The_SB yeh even I can tell it by a look
ology It's not scary or amazing at all.
ology It is called experience!
Ani-_ rindolf: what do you find scary?
Ani-_ rindolf: that experienced programmers can tell it? Or the code itself?
Ani-_ I would disagree on the first one but agree on the later! :)
rindolf Ani-_: no, that I'm so experienced.
rindolf Ani-_: I hope I don't sound out as a snob.
ology narcissism is fun
rindolf I should get a life.
rindolf Get a girlfriend, go to movies.
rindolf Instead all I do is write Perl.
rindolf And chat about writing Perl.
Ikarus a life, tried that, didn't mix with me
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Scary Perl Expertise

(Human) Language Fun on Freenode's #perl

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rindolf Let me wikipedia it.
f00li5h so now wikipedia is a verb?
rindolf f00li5h: it's gonna enter the OED.
rindolf f00li5h: in English every verb can be nounified and every noun can be verbed.
rindolf f00li5h: google is now a verb too.
f00li5h rindolf: q{ just one second and i'll "computer" it up for you"}
rindolf f00li5h: LOL.
rindolf f00li5h++
* rindolf f00li5hes jql
rindolf I'm rindolfed
* f00li5h finds it odd that irssi hilighted half of that word
rindolf f00li5h: it's much harder to do it in Hebrew.
jql computer is from the verb compute already
rindolf jql: there's computerise though.
f00li5h jql: but to computer something is different than computing it
f00li5h COMPUTIFY!
rindolf jql: I once thought that the study of Objectivity is Objectivism.
f00li5h "configurated"
jql you shouldn't noun up a verb that's been nouned already
rindolf And the study of Objectivism is Objectivistalism.
Caelum heh
rindolf And that study of that is Objectvisitalistalism.
rindolf And to infinity it's Objectivist-elementalism!
f00li5h eval: object .((ism)x100)
buubot f00li5h: objectismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismism ismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismism ismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismi
rindolf With apologies to the 4 people who ever spoke Latin correctly.
jql I can't help but read that as smi smi smi
Caelum me too
rindolf jql: reminds me of Peter Pan.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline (Human) Language Fun on Freenode's #perl

How many clicks must a one man do, before he selects what he wants on Freenode's #perl.

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dkr I use nedit, the only app with a quadruple-click feature
naquad wtf is quadruple-click??? %-/
dkr double-click selects a word, triple-click selects a line, quadruple-click select the whole document. heh :)
Patterner quintuple-click selects the whole harddisk
rindolf hexuple-click selects the entire Intranet.
rindolf And septapable-click selects the entire Internet
Patterner How many for the multiverse?
naquad people, who uses what editor?
arw octaple click selects the known universe and nonaple the rest too.
rindolf arw: how long does it takes these clicks to run?
rindolf I think it's super-exponential complexity.
arw rindolf: no matter, the universe is finite :)
arw rindolf: only problem is, the information about your clicking will never reach the entire universe as it expands ;)
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline How many clicks must a one man do, before he selects what he wants?

The meaning of "I" on Freenode's #perl.

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* reflexive huzzahs. His Perl books just arrived.
apeiron reflexive, Which?
reflexive apeiron: IP and PBP. A couple others are still in transit.
apeiron reflexive, Nice. :)
reflexive :)
rindolf reflexive: what is IP?
reflexive Intermediate Perl.
rindolf reflexive: oh, OK.
rindolf Intellectual Perl.
rindolf Internet Perl.
kojiro Invasive Perl
kspath Idiot Perl
rindolf Interactive Perl.
rindolf I, Perl.
kojiro Implementing Pies
kojiro mmm, pie
rindolf Improbably Perl
kspath Ignoble Perl
kojiro Probably Inverted
rindolf kojiro: :-)
kspath Improper Perl
reflexive Insidious Perl?
mst ALL PERL IS IMPROPER
kojiro API?
rindolf In Soviet Russia all improper is Perl.
rindolf APII.
qrck impudent perl
kojiro no, you never count words like "is"
kspath Incoherent Perl
kojiro ALL PERL IS INCOHERENT
reflexive So true.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline The Meaning of "I".

Got the Slashdot? on Freenode's #perl.

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dkr which is that ACME:: filter that obfusctaes all your source into whitespace? :)
preaction Acme::Bleach
rindolf dkr: as preaction said it is Acme::Bleach.
dkr moderation -1 Redundant
* dkr smirks
nws get out you slashdotter
nws jk
dkr I got moderated overrated yesterday. I felt so loved
dkr GumbyGumby: how often do you post to /.?
GumbyGumby dkr: do it to system() a ssh command. Is doing that often.
rindolf GumbyBRAIN: how often do you post dkr to Slashdot?
GumbyBRAIN do it to list.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Got the Slashdot?

What's in a variable-name? on Freenode's #perl.

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WebDragon y'all should spell it in uppercase it being an acronym and all
reaction Yes, but we're *lazy*!
* WebDragon *so* noticed ;)
dkr WebDragon: people that use CamelCase have no right to criticize about capitalization. :)
WebDragon dkr: I hate underscores
* dkr contemplates a source code filter that does lets you use spaces in var names by switch them to underscores at compile time
preaction black magic
mst dkr: source filters are evil.
mst dkr: in a bad way.
mst dkr: hacking the compiler is much more fun, and evil in a useful way :)
mst WebDragon: recommended perl style is $var_name
mst WebDragon: it's also more readable than $varName or $VarName
mst WebDragon: I'd recommend trying it for at least a month
mst WebDragon: also note that it'll make life easier because you'll be consistent with the rest of perl code
WebDragon mst: I was thinking more along the lines of filenames and irc nicknames than perl variables
mst WebDragon: ah. fair enough :)
* WebDragon doesn't use camelcase for perlvars
mst WebDragon: then I shall cease complaining :)
avar ${"Insert a descriptive essay about the variable here"}
WebDragon rofl
rindolf avar: that won't work with 'use strict 'refs''
WebDragon avar: I've seen things like that in RL and had recurring nightmares about them when I saw similar and sometimes worse things on thedailywtf.com
mst rindolf: ${main::}{"Insert a descriptive essay about the variable here"} would :)
mst rindolf: or you could just use %_ :)
dkr my boss still occasionally uses vars like $x. still trying to beat that behavior out of him
* WebDragon only uses x|y|z for cartesian coordinate math
WebDragon which, since I hardly ever do any of that, means the obvious
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline What's in a variable name?

Watched the fountain on Freenode's #perlcafe

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mofino watched the Fountain
mofino pretty cool'
q[ender] yep
sili what?
sili you think The Fountain was cool?
sili it was pretty artsy.
sili I don't understand the necessity of repeating that same scene 50k times, though.
mofino then you didn't get the movie
rindolf sili: if you repeat a scene 50k times, then the movie will have less entropy and will compress better.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Watched the fountain on Freenode's #perlcafe

Commiting yourself to a programming language on Freenode's #perl.

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convivial high-rez, but I don't know enough to help you because I am a newbie to perl programming and although I am in deep luv with perl and planning on marrying perl, I still have a lot to learn.
rindolf convivial: you can only marry Perl if polygamy is legal where you live.
rindolf convivial: because Perl and I are already married. :-D
convivial why is that? i'm single :)
rindolf convivial: but Perl isn't.
convivial oh crap !
convivial all the good languages are already married :(
rindolf convivial: COBOL is still single.
rindolf convivial: but I heard she's a total bitch.
convivial ewwwwwwwwwwww, so is JCL and no one is knocking down either of their doors
convivial rindolf, janet reno is single!
rindolf convivial: what kind of programming language is "Janet Reno"?
convivial :)
convivial she is a person
rindolf convivial: I'm not interested in people, I'm only interested in programming languages.
shaldannon rindolf: you should try Ada
rindolf shaldannon: Ada 95?
shaldannon yeah
shaldannon the syntax of Pascal, the power of Basic and the friendliness of Java
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Commiting yourself to a programming language on Freenode's #perl.

Making use of Encyclopedias at FreeNode's #perl

Display

* shaldannon beats iank over the head with an encyclopedia
rindolf shaldannon: all volumes of an encyclopedia?
dwu rindolf: ha
shaldannon rindolf: every last one of 'em
rindolf shaldannon: or perhaps a printout of the Wikipedia?
iank rindolf: the whole bookcase
rindolf shaldannon: which Encyclopedia?
iank rindolf: naw, just get the DVD :)
shaldannon rindolf: I couldn't lift that
shaldannon rindolf: Britanica
iank You could lift the DVD!
dwu shaldannon: Start. Working. Out.
shaldannon dwu: oh?
dwu shaldannon: Dude, being able to lift the Britannica is hot.
* iank -> the internet
shaldannon :-}
dwu Seriously.
dwu "I can hold the accepted knowledge of a percentage of the human race in my arms!" "Oh, god, that is so sexy."
shaldannon hahahaha
dwu Seriously. Smart is hot. Smart and funny... well.
* shaldannon is hillarious ;)
dwu Uhm. kay.
rindolf If you start reading the wikipedia lexicographically, will you ever finish at the rate articles are added there?
tarrybone rindolf: yes (citation needed)
dwu ha
shaldannon lol @ tarrybone
dwu tarrybone++
rindolf This reminds me of James Bond 1, where the girl there read an encyclopedia, instead of going to school.
yrlnry Does anyone near Philadelphia want to come to my house and take away my 1920 Britannica?
shaldannon rindolf: hey...when I was in elementary school, I used to read the World Book encyclopedia instead of doing my homework
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline One Encylcopedia Per Child - all volumes of it

Production WTF Code on #perl

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dwave anyone envy me? i'm refactoring production code that uses the fact that "" is defined, as a hash key.
dwave if (ref $ref->{""} ne "ARRAY") {
dwave $ref->{""} = [$ref->{""},$_];
dwave } else {
dwave $ref->{""} = [@{$ref->{""}},$_];
dwave }
dwave :(
iank hey, that looks like fun.
integral Has the author been lynched yet?
* integral would have used "\0" :-P
dwave the best of it all, is that it's an XML parser
mauke $ref->{""} = [ref $ref->{""} eq "ARRAY" ? @{$ref->{""}} : $ref->{""}, $_]; # fixed
rindolf dwave: does this XML parser makes use of an existing XML parser from CPAN?
rindolf dwave: or does it do everything from scratch?
dwave rindolf: everything from scratch :)
rindolf dwave: nice!
dwave i'm trying to get rid of it
rindolf dwave: re-inventing square wheels.
dwave there's a home made unicode lib too
dwave !
rindolf dwave: ouch!
shaldannon nice
iank Brilliant!
shaldannon dwave: I suggest a dailywtf.com submission
rindolf dwave: yeah, I second shaldannon
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Production WTF Code on #perl

Versions of Software on FreeNode's #perl

Display

bp31416 rindolf: I command you both, to uninstall it, and install SuSE10.2 =P
jagerman "versions" are so annoying.
jagerman "I use Linux 10.2!"
iank jagerman: I had a friend who insisted the answer to the question "What version of the kernel are you running?" was "gnome".
jagerman eval: $POE::Kernel::VERSION
buubot jagerman: 1.2173
jagerman \o/
Terminus heh, a friend of mine only remembers me running ximian a few years ago and he keeps on asking me, "why don't you run ximian again?" where ximian == OS for him.
bp31416 jagerman: could be worse lingo-wise, in tech-support many folks asking on Q about 'THEIR internet' isn't working, or 'does it have internet installed?', I .....like.... sir.... when did you manage to buy the internet in whole? ....... ahhhh... the internet is not a socket you plug in any of the ports sir
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Versions of Software

The Holy Extreme Programming in Freenode's #perl

Display

rindolf "We're doing XP [= Extreme Programming] here, so you need to know Ruby, you need to know Design Patterns and you need to know Refactoring."
rindolf XP may have become a religion.
ew73 I Refactored yesterday!
rindolf ew73: using which refactoring pattern?
ew73 Leviticus 13:22
Somni well you will keep refactoring until you get it right!
* rindolf extracts the ew73 method.
rindolf ew73: this is one of my favourite refactoring patterns.
* ew73 idly looks up said passage, just to see if it's any good.
integral What do you have to know to claim you know refactoring?
integral How to click buttons in the right Eclipse menu?
rindolf integral: the code is in Ruby.
integral Ruby is too cool to be in Eclipse?
ew73 integral: One time, I moved all this stuff to another subroutine!
ew73 Lev. 13:22. And if it spread, he shall judge him to have the leprosy:
rindolf integral: no, but you cannot refactor Ruby code automatically using Eclipse.
integral One time I wrote all this code, but when I was about to go home I found I'd left my brain at home! LOLZ
integral ew73: good butter advert in that
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Extreme Programming as a Religion

To be here or not to be here on Freenode's #perl

Display

rindolf Hi all.
rindolf LeoNerd: here?
LeoNerd rindolf: Maybe
rindolf LeoNerd: "be here or be not here - there is no maybe"
LeoNerd :)
rindolf LeoNerd: a.k.a the law of the exclusion of the middle.
dwu I think Yoda phrased that one best.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline To be here or not to be here on Freenode's #perl

Monkey Business at Freenode's #perl

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perlmonkey thats just...mental
rindolf perlmonkey2: still here?
perlmonkey2 rindolf: hi
rindolf perlmonkey2: hi.
perlmonkey phew
rindolf perlmonkey2: now we have two Perl monkeys.
perlmonkey2 hah
perlmonkey2 good stuff
perlmonkey2 You can never have too many.
PeaceNLove To produce good stuff like Shakespeare's works, we need an infinite number of monkeys
perlmonkey we're starting a monkey clan
rindolf PeaceNLove: heh.
rindolf PeaceNLove: and to write like a monkey we need a million Shakespeares.
PeaceNLove perlmonkey, reproduce and multiply, God be with you
perlmonkey2 PeaceNLove: You can, of course, do anything with an infinite number of perl monkeys.
perlmonkey2 PeaceNLove: Actually a million monkeys on a million typewriters would most probably have not created Hamlet if they started at the beginning of the Universe.
PeaceNLove perlmonkey2, that's fine, the Universe has not ended yet, they have time
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Monkey Business at Freenode's #perl

Who you're gonna call on Freenode's #perl

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rindolf Hmmm... xchat-perl is gone.
f00li5h OH NOES! ## what's that for then?
rindolf Who you're gonna call? Bug-busters!!
Khisanth rindolf: never existed, unless you are using an rpm based system
rindolf Khisanth: I am.
f00li5h I AINT AFRAID OF NO BUG!
rindolf f00li5h: heh.
f00li5h when there's something wierd and in your code base, who you gonna call?
railbait f00li5h: The police?
f00li5h railbait: BUG BUSTERS!
f00li5h we test it with science then blow it up
f00li5h ... or is that someone else
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Who you're gonna call?

Tribute to the Prisoner on Freenode's #perl

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Hazard How do I look up @- in the perldocs?
rindolf Hazard: perldoc perlvar
Hazard rindolf: Thanks.
Daveman perldoc rindolf
Hazard I don't know what I'd do without IRC.
rindolf Daveman: I am not a pragma! I'm a free man!
Hazard I couldn't even google that.
rindolf use Daveman (qw(silliness));
* jetscreamer sends rindolf back to the village
rindolf jetscreamer: is it a Perlisoner village where everyone becomes a pragma?
jetscreamer and lots of perlBalloons
Daveman gumbybrain, how do i make teh web wit shlomi!?
rindolf jetscreamer: Perloons.
rindolf jetscreamer: Perlunatics.
apeiron Perlarks.
Daveman perlaugh
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Tribute to the Prisoner

The Messiah of Perl on Freenode's #perl

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ubajas Technically, my first language was Turbo Pascal, but I started over with Perl 10 years later (not having programmed in the meantime). I'm obviously damaged goods.
iank ubajas: heh, I read that as "I started with (perl 10) (years later)" instead of "I started with perl (10 years later)" :)
rindolf Perl 10!
rindolf Perl for the Fourth Millenium.
jagerman I thought Perl 6 was supposed to be timeless
ubajas iank: Maybe I should have added a comma. :-]
jagerman Perl ∞
iank perl6 has existed since the beginning of time, or at least it will have existed since then once $Larry finds a time machine.
simcop2387 iank: i'm sorry but larry is the prophet i am the messanger! i will be the one to take it back!
iank WHAT.
simcop2387 iank: its MY TIME MACHINE!
* iank smacks simcop2387 around
jagerman iank: So it'll be like that Star Trek episode, where they say that the development of computers are caused by time travel from the future?
jagerman Except that they were too stupid (like most Voyager writers) to get their facts right, and thought computers started in the 70s
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline The Messiah of Perl

One rindolf Each on Freenode's #perl

Display

milardovich with strict it say me this:
milardovich Global symbol "$lorem" requires explicit package name at split.pl line 3.
rindolf milardovich: use "my $lorem = "
rindolf milardovich: my is your friend.
rindolf pun not intended.
rindolf my is my friend.
dwu Preferably with a real value after "= " ^.^
rindolf dwu: he already has that.
milardovich that works with my rindolf
milardovich thaks you!!!
rindolf milardovich: you're welcome.
milardovich :)
ubajas I wish I had a rindolf too. :-\
milardovich people here are "nicer" than on #php :P
rindolf ubajas: I'm mass-produced at Chines sweat-shops.
ubajas hehe
rindolf ubajas: they sell me for 30 bucks a piece.
rindolf milardovich: I've heard some horrible stories about ##php.
milardovich perl rulz x)
rindolf milardovich: what brings you to Perl?
simcop2387 rindolf: #php apparantly
rindolf simcop2387: heh.
rindolf simcop2387++
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline One rindolf Each on Freenode's #perl

Are you being verbed on Freenode's #perl

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rindolf cl1: what do you do at work?
cl1 i write code :D
rindolf cl1: naturally.
rindolf cl1: to do what?
cl1 right now at this contract, i'm working with .net, c#, asp.net and pl/sql
rindolf cl1: sounds enterprisey.
BinGOs please don't turn enterprise into a verb.
rindolf BinGOs: enterprisey is an adjective, not a verb.
LeoNerd Enterprizationaliseation?
BinGOs okay.
cl1 lol @ enterprisey
rindolf GumbyBRAIN: BinGOs me!
GumbyBRAIN i tend to be good, it doesn't want me to buy an island utopia (you'll get used to bother me.
BinGOs But it is a noun and no more.
BinGOs mmmkay.
dwu BinGOs: Actually, it's also an adjective. Even without "y".
BinGOs I HATE YOU ALL.
* dwu grin
BinGOs CRITIQUE IS DEFINITELY A FUCKING NOUN.
dwu It's also a verb.
BinGOs NO IT ISN'T
simcop2387 BinGOs: i shall critique your use of critique
BinGOs JUST BECAUSE SOME DAMNED YANKEE SCUM DECIDE IT IS, DOES NOT MAKE IT SO.
dwu It's been used since the 18th century.
rindolf BinGOs: dwued!
BinGOs I refer you to my earlier hate.
dwu I refer you to your fail.
icke not earlier than 18th century
dwu I really shouldn't. It's mean. But I will.
dwu Because I'm mean.
dwu icke: Hence "since".
dwu 'criticises'.
BinGOs My fail-gun appears to firing backwards. Damn thing.
dwu Your fail gun is... failing?
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Are you being verbed on Freenode's #perl

How much Perl do you need at Freenode's #perl

Display

shishirm1 is pop3 module avaliable only in perl 5?
jernster are you saying you use something other than 5?
icke perl 4 didn't even have modules
jernster heh
rindolf shishirm1: do you want to use it with Perl 4?
shishirm1 oh ok sorry i am comlete nooob!! so i am just asking you guys
shishirm1 nope is perl 5 a standard now?
jernster yes
shishirm1 ok great...
jernster :)
rindolf shishirm1: Perl 4 is unmaintained, unloved, deprecated, not recommended, and dead - D. E. D. - DEAD!
simcop2387-lap perl 4 is an EXPERL!
simcop2387-lap all statements that perl4 is a going concern are thus inoperative.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline How much Perl do you need at Freenode's #perl

Conditional-to-Inheritance Refactoring on Freenode's #perl

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edeca Hrm. More infernal questions, mainly because I am trying to make my perl prettier and contain less nasty if's. I have $foo and $bar which are obtained from split(/ /, 'kitten loving'). But I don't want undef if the split fails, I'd rather '' for $bar or both. What's the nicest way to do that?
Khisanth ($foo, $bar) = map { $_ // "" } split / /, $str; # 5.10 version :)
edeca Noo 5.10! :)
Khisanth ($foo, $bar) = map { defined $_ ? $_ : "" } split / /, $str; # probably some other shorter ways too
rindolf edeca: [bad idea] you can also try using the conditional->inheritance refactoring.
rindolf :-)
* Khisanth pours boiling coffee on rindolf
rindolf Khisanth: I hate coffee, but I guess I deserved it.
rindolf That was a joke, of course.
Khisanth you weren't really supposed to like having boiling anything poured on you but I guess you are into the kinkier stuff
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Conditional-to-Inheritance Refactoring on Freenode's #perl

Geek love on Freenode's #perl

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rindolf rbastic: QBasic was the sh*t!
rindolf rbastic: well, not really.
rbastic rindolf: yup, that language is responsible for me having gotten into programming to begin with.
rbastic 8 yrs old and writing qbasic scripts with QBasic for Dummies by my side
rindolf rbastic: I started when I was 10.
rindolf rbastic: I know some people who started much later.
talexb Late bloomer .. didn't start till I was 15.
Zoffix heh, I started at 14... I could not have a computer before that
rindolf rbastic: but I know a girl who started programming when she was 6.
rindolf Or was it 8?
Zoffix rindolf, CAN HAS PHONE NUMBER?!
rbastic lol
rindolf Zoffix: NO CAN!
Zoffix :(
rindolf Zoffix: only have her MSN.
Zoffix gimmegimmegimme
talexb Heh.
Zoffix :)
rindolf Zoffix: LOL.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Geek Love

The Grand Unified Programming Language

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rbastic Juerd: eh in today's world of heavy JS on the clientside, i think it makes a little more sense to use the same lang. everywhere
Juerd rbastic: JS on the client side is because often it's the only option the universe provides.
rbastic Juerd: from a business perspective, you reduce the complexity and potential difficulties in finding new hires with the same skillset
rindolf rbastic: have you heard of RJS?
Juerd rbastic: On the server side, however, you have great freedom.
rbastic rindolf: no, what's that?
Caelum larry wants perl6 to run on javascript :)
rindolf rbastic: "One Language; and One Sayings".
Juerd rbastic: Exactly. I would never hire a server side programmer who knows *only* Javascript, and is too stupid to learn whatever we're using on the server side.
rindolf rbastic: my translation to a sentence from the Tower of Babel myth.
rbastic Juerd: i'll agree with that also. any real programmer knows or has at least coded in half a dozen languages before
Juerd From a business perspective, you should avoid crap coders at all cost.
Juerd Knows *or* has coded... Hmmm...!
rindolf rbastic: though according to what most scholars believe it was not about using one language but rather thinking the same.
Juerd I hope they haven't coded in half a dozen languages without knowing them.
Juerd That'd be scary.
zshzn Reality is scary, Juerd
talexb Hmm, BASIC, FORTRAN, COBOL, assembler, C, more assembler, C, Pascal ... Perl!
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline The Grand Unified Programming Language

Can I haz a fast compiler on Freenode's #perl

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rindolf rbastic: now I'm working with C++.
rindolf rbastic: I found out that my project compiles really quickly.
rindolf rbastic: under 5 or 10 minutes on a P4-2.4GHz with 1 GB of RAM.
rindolf rbastic: maybe KDE is making g++ look bad.
rbastic rindolf: yeah, i'm not a big KDE fan
rindolf rbastic: actually I'm using KDE-3.5.8 here.
rindolf rbastic: I was talking about the compilation speed of KDE apps and KDE itself.
rindolf rbastic: possibly because each file has half-a-gazillion headers.
rindolf My C++ code is a server one, so we don't have too many deps.
rbastic yeah, isn't there a way to cache header files? ie. in their "compiled" form?
rbastic or is that something I'm remembering from some other programming language that purported to build on top of C?
rindolf rbastic: MSVC has that.
rbastic ahh, nods
rindolf rbastic: no, Visual C++ has precompiled headers.
rindolf rbastic: I remember that I kept deleting them.
rbastic yeah, couldn't remember
rbastic lol
rindolf Pascal compiles very quickly.
rindolf That's one of the things I enjoyed in Delphi.
rbastic ugh, the app i'm been maintaining in Java was originally a fat client/server desktop app, written in Delphi
rindolf rbastic: ah.
rbastic i remember booting up the old app for the first time, and being amazed at how slow it was
rbastic eventually, i had to duplicate a feature in the Java code and i wasn't sure how it was implemented before
rindolf rbastic: you mean the Java app is faster? :S
rbastic so being as i had no Delphi experience, and the newer Delphi environments made NO sense to me at all, i just opened up the SQL Server query analyzer
rbastic rindolf: yes, but only b/c the Delphi programmer was an idiot, issuing queries over and over again needlessly
rbastic rindolf: if you could've seen the MSSQL Performance Analyzer or whatever, it was basically just.. Query1, Query2, Query3, Query1, Query2, Query3, repeat.
rbastic it was probably the worst ive ever seen in my life.. belongs on www.thedailywtf.com
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Can I haz a fast compiler

I think too much - therefore I blog too much on Freenode's #perl

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rindolf scrottie: hi.
scrottie hi rindolf!
rindolf scrottie: are you the scrottie from use.perl.org?
scrottie yeah.
rindolf scrottie: ah, nice to meet you.
rindolf Well, chat with you on IRC at least.
* scrottie cowers from the swinging fist probably coming his way
rindolf scrottie: I'm "Shlomi%20Fish"
scrottie oh, heh, thanks
rindolf It's a curse.
scrottie hmm. i vaguely remember interesting stuff from you but can't honestly place what.
scrottie I know I've seen you around here before too.
rindolf Yeah, my use.perl.org blog is mostly technical and perl-related.
scrottie I post on use.perl.org entirely too much.
rindolf So it may be a bit boring.
rindolf Sometimes it's a bit philosophical.
rindolf scrottie: yes.
scrottie heh. and mine is offensively off-topic.
rindolf scrottie: I have other blogs.
scrottie I've posted to livejournal twice!
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline I think too much - therefore I blog too much

"How intrusive do you want your text to be?" on Freenode's #perl

Display

rindolf Can we add styles like <b>, <i>, etc.?
rindolf Or colours?
rindolf Or blink?
rindolf Or images?
rindolf Or flash applets?
scrottie <banner>!
alanhaggai rindolf: No I think. Google's Web Application does not allow them. It is just a <textarea>.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline How intrusive do you want your text to be?

Freenode's #pearl

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rindolf scrottie: you are a native English speaker right?
rindolf scrottie: do you know #linguistics ?
scrottie not familiar with #linguistics, yes, I am a native English speaker, but my spelling is atr... my spelling is terrible.
rindolf atrocious?
scrottie yeah, that
scrottie I have an xterm dedicated to dict/spell
rindolf scrottie: spelling is probably easy to fix using aspell.
rindolf scrottie: heh.
rindolf scrottie: I'm using xchat which has an red-line for spelling mistakes.
rindolf Very useful.
rindolf Too bad I'm using British spelling where it sometimes misbehaves.
rindolf aspell, I mean.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Freenode's #pearl

"Lame even" on Freenode's #perl

Display

rindolf A lot of ise's [in Aspell's British Spelling checker] are false positivies.
rindolf positives even.
rindolf People who say $minor_spelling_correction even, are lam.
rindolf lame even.
rindolf I never get tired of these self-referential jokes.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Lame even

The Third #perl Reich (on Freenode #perl).

Display

scrottie The tech side was there... but I was stuck with my fucking graphics I did in crayon. I kid you not. Crayon.
scrottie It was a cry for help.
scrottie Programmers will work with each other on fun projects, but graphic designers never get involved in stuff like that.
rindolf scrottie: ah.
scrottie then there's kingdomofloathing.com... stick figures.
rindolf scrottie: there are some graphic designers who contribute to KDE, GNOME, etc.
scrottie fuck graphic artists. we should round them all up and burn them.
rindolf scrottie: heh.
scrottie okay, they can live.
rindolf scrottie: scrotitler!
scrottie the rest get burnt though.
rindolf "He who starts by burning graphics desginers will end up burning programmers."
scrottie only the ASP and PHP programmers... then we'll see where things are at and re-evaluate the plan.
rindolf First they came to the graphics designers...
Khisanth then they came for more graphics designers
rindolf scrottie: I knew some very nice PHP programmers.
rindolf And VB ones.
scrottie yeah, me too. real shame.
rindolf scrottie: I still know some PHP programmers.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline The Third #perl Reich (on Freenode #perl).

The Name "Bunny"

Display

→B-rabbit has joined #perl
rindolf B-rabbit? I know a B-rat on #linguistics.
B-rabbit rindolf, cool =]
rindolf B-rabbit: ok.
B-rabbit my full name is bunny rabbit bt w :)
B-rabbit hehe
rindolf B-rabbit: ah.
rindolf B-rabbit: "bunny" is a female name.
B-rabbit lol
pippijn rindolf: correct
pippijn I know a bunny
rindolf Or a Playboy bunny.
ik rindolf: bunny is a stripper name
pippijn friends call her bun
ik pippijn: is she a stripper?
B-rabbit rindolf, i am a male lol x sorry to disappoint u
rindolf "IRC: Where men are men, women are men, and the kids are FBI agents."
rindolf B-rabbit: ok, no problem.
ik pippijn: she should change her name
pippijn ik: it doesn't hurt her
ik pippijn: right, but she's violating a fundamental law
ik pippijn: she either needs to change her name or become a stripper
rindolf ik: I think the other option is better.
pippijn ik: she'd probably become a stripper rather than changing her name
rindolf pippijn: LOL.
ik rindolf: yeah, but you're creepy
rindolf I think I'll make a fortune out of it.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline The Name "Bunny"

The Anti-School nazi

Display

dazjorz Hi rindolf :)
rindolf Hi dazjorz
rindolf dazjorz: what's up?
rindolf dazjorz: No Tests for You?
rindolf No *more
dazjorz No more tests :)
rindolf dazjorz: No more tests for you!!! For three months!
rindolf dazjorz: nice!
dazjorz :D
dazjorz Two, I think
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline The anti-School nazi

Emulating a Newbie on Perl

Display

yrlnry Hi, I heard that Perl is just HTML with some sort of macro preprocessor attached. So I thought you would be the right people to ask about whether there is a way to make the submitted value on an <input type=submit> different from the visible label on the button.
yrlnry Thanks in advance.
* Roderick tars and feathers yrlnry.
yrlnry Hi, Roderick! How's the kid?
Somni you have been misinformed, sir; Perl is just a regex engine with named variables
ne2k__ yrlnry: that is possibly one of the oddest questions I have ever heard
yrlnry ne2k__: What's odd about "How's the kid?"
yrlnry You need to get out more, seriously.
ne2k__ yrlnry: I meant the original question
Roderick Congratulations, I hope it's going well.
yrlnry Do you know that Jewish folktale about the man who lives in a tiny hut with his wife and kids and they can't stand the crowding any more, so they go to the rabbi for advice, and the rabbit suggests that they bring the chickens, goat, and cow into the house too?
ne2k__ yrlnry: not that it has anything to do with perl, but the <input> tag in HTML has both "name" and "value" attributes. the value is what gets shown in the browser typically.
yrlnry ne2k__: yes, and the value is also what is submitted when someone presses the button, but I want the displayed label to be different from what it submitted, as it is say with <option ...>
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline yrlnry as a Perl newbie

Which Prefix do You Want Today?

Display

mMish hi rind
rindolf Hi mMish
rindolf mMish: now you're mMish ?
rindolf mMish: are you eMish, oMish, aMish , etc?
mMish yes
rindolf mMish: ah, nice.
mMish depends on the mood
rindolf GumbyBRAIN: how many nicks must a one IRCer have?
GumbyBRAIN Oh, i lie, now it's stuck on posting things to do it. You said you couldn't have one of many.
rindolf mMish: ah OK.
rindolf xMish
rindolf iMish
rindolf zMish
rindolf Like the IBM computers.
rindolf pMish
mMish ppszMish <--- HUngarian
rindolf mMish: LOL.
rindolf lpstrMish
dazjorz is lpstr a function?
dazjorz get_magic_quotes_gpcMish
rindolf dazjorz: no, Long Pointer to string.
dazjorz PHP++ :')
rindolf dazjorz: why?
rindolf perlbot: karma PHP
perlbot Karma for PHP: -147
LeoNerd It takes some nerve to say "PHP++" in #perl :P
dazjorz rindolf: because they have get_magic_quotes_gpc!
dazjorz don't we all love get_magic_quotes_gpc!
rindolf dazjorz: oh.
dazjorz it's a function
rindolf dazjorz: love, hate - what's the difference.
rindolf dazjorz: that does what?
dazjorz to get the value of magic_quotes_gpc in the config file.
rindolf dazjorz: ah.
dazjorz so they have get_magic_quotes_gpc for get_ini('magic_quotes_gpc')
rindolf dazjorz: LOL.
dazjorz plus, there's the magic_quotes_gpc to escape all input a script gets via POST, GET and COOKIE.
rindolf dazjorz: yes, sounds Evil.
rindolf Just use placeholders.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Which Prefix do you Want today?

Sextalk according to the cult of Perl

Display

krang Hey all, what's the best way to call one perl script from another? I was thinking I'd just use 'system("script.pl");'
dazjorz krang: yeah, that, or do "script.pl"
dazjorz krang: depends on how seperated you want them to be
krang dazjorz: you mean just a line that has "script.pl"; written on it?
Khisanth you need the do as well
dazjorz krang: no, exactly this: do "script.pl";
rindolf krang: system is usually what you want.
rindolf krang: normally require or use are preferable to do
dazjorz rindolf: that's for modules, isn't it ?
rindolf dazjorz: yes.
dazjorz wait, I think require "script.pl" would work too
rindolf dazjorz: and doing code is not such a good idea.
dazjorz rindolf: hmm?
krang rindolf: what is doing anyway?
rindolf dazjorz: I mean "perldoc -f do"-ing code.
rindolf krang: do()-ing
rindolf krang: it reads the file and evaluates it.
rindolf krang: perldoc -f do.
dazjorz rindolf: ah
dazjorz rindolf: do {}
* rindolf would rather be doing hot models than doing code. :-)
dazjorz rindolf: yeah, do BLOCK is quite useless
dazjorz heh
rindolf dazjorz: you can do my $var = do { ... }
* dazjorz would rather be doing GumbyBRAIN than doing code
GumbyBRAIN and doing code is not be in the days of immortality!
rindolf dazjorz: or eval { ... }
rindolf dazjorz: heh.
rindolf It's hard to do code.
dazjorz do $model;
dazjorz eh.. sorry, do $hotmodel;
rindolf "Are you into my brother?"
rindolf "No I'm totally into Perl."
krang ah ok, I see. Thanks guys!
rindolf krang: yw.
dazjorz heh :-)
rindolf If you want a configuration file, you should be using something like INI, YAML, etc.
rindolf XML perhaps.
rindolf Something.
rindolf Apache-like config.
dazjorz Apache-like is very strong but hard to parse, right ?
dazjorz Loading and saving configuration never looks good, especially when it's XML
dazjorz the code to load and save is ugly.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Sextalk among Perl cultists

f00li5h inviting rindolf to Australia

Display

f00li5h rindolf: are you coming out this way on tour some time?
rindolf f00li5h: to .au?
f00li5h yes!
rindolf f00li5h: don't think so.
f00li5h you can pay some of my rent for a bit ^_^
rindolf f00li5h: I'm out of job too.
f00li5h perfect timing!
f00li5h no commitments
* f00li5h is very good at constructing circular arguments due to his skill in constructing circular arguments
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Will rindolf come to Australia?

The Love Life of Cats

Display

Anon today my kitty gave a birth to two kitties!
rindolf Anon: ah, nice.
Anon one of them died :(
Anon during birth
rindolf Anon: oh. :-(
simcop2387 Anon: were you expecting it to happen?
simcop2387 :(
Anon simcop2387, i was expecting this week
rindolf Anon: do you know who the father is?
simcop2387 ah
Anon rindolf, some cat
simcop2387 rindolf: hopefully not him
Anon rindolf, remember my kitty ran away
rindolf Anon: ah.
Anon for a week
rindolf Anon: no I don't remember that.
Anon well, she ran away for a week
rindolf Anon: ah.
Anon and came back
Anon and during that time she got pregnant.
rindolf Anon: ah.
freehaha they don't seem to have safe sex
rindolf Anon: she eloped.
simcop2387 Anon: sounds like she had fun
Anon simcop2387, sounds like that :)
simcop2387 Anon: you should have the talk with her about birth control then (i wonder do they even make birth control for kitties)
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline The Love Life of Cats

Black Beer

Display

* rindolf is listening to
rindolf Oh crud.
rindolf I should support Kaffeine too.
Tanktalus rindolf is apparently deaf... ;-)
* rindolf is listening to Metallica - Nothing Else Matters
ubajas NOTHING ELSE MATTERS, DUDE
tkr rindolf: thats nice :)
tkr rindolf: how about guns 'n roses?
* rindolf is listening to Guns and Runs - don't cry
rindolf tkr: you read my mind.
rindolf tkr: I now placed some of their songs.
rindolf Now it's November Rain.
tkr rindolf: next time youll come to finland Ill buy you a beer (with no alcohol)! :)
tkr rindolf++
rindolf tkr: OK.
rindolf tkr: we have something called "Black Beer" in Israel.
rindolf Which is a non-alcoholic beer.
simcop2387 rindolf: THATS RACIST! IT SHOULD BE AFRICAN AMERICAN ISREALI BEER!
edenc rindolf: is it any good?
rindolf simcop2387: heh .
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Beer, Perlers and Song

Assign Named $foo and $bar

Display

LeoNerd I feel there must be a way to do this... given func( foo => 1, bar => 2 ); how to write my ( $foo, $bar ) = .... inside the function?
LeoNerd My current attempt is my ( $foo, $bar ) = @{{@_}}{qw( foo bar )}; which is messy as sin
icke LeoNerd: what's the problem? readability?
LeoNerd Yah
dazjorz LeoNerd: I'd change specs to be func({ foo => 1, bar => 2})
dazjorz then my ($foo, $bar) = ($_[0]{foo}, $_[0]{bar});
ton Leonerd: If you insist on doing it on one line, that's about as good as it gets. But why not use a temporary hash ? Should be just as fast and as readable
LeoNerd Hrm.. :/ Then it's only marginally nicer as my ( $foo, $bar ) = @{$_[0]}{qw( foo bar )};
LeoNerd my %args = @_; my ( $foo, $bar ) = @args{qw( foo bar )}; ya... that works
mst LeoNerd: my ($foo, $bar) = do { my %a = @_; @a{qw(foo bar)} };
ton if you combine it with a delete you can then check if %args is empty and catch typos or unexpected arguments....
LeoNerd Oooh.. a do block
vincent or use padwalker
LeoNerd Oh, args won't be empty... this is a wrapper function that pulls a few named args off and sends the rest to a nested inner function
LeoNerd Now.. I want to call a function "foreach" but that breaks things... suggestions?
icke a method could be named 'foreach'
LeoNerd Ya.. but this is a plain function
icke tough
LeoNerd I suppose "iterate" is about as best as I'll get
icke for_each
ton LeoNerd: forall ?
LeoNerd I'll think on it overnight maybe.. I guess it's home time now
icke foreachandeverysingleone
ton forever, forfun, forlorn...
vincent FOREACH
icke boo
LeoNerd one_for $all and $all for @one;
rindolf forevery?
rindolf <LeoNerd> one_for $all and $all for @one; - heh
rindolf $one for @all and @all for @one
rindolf $one for @all and @all for @$one
rindolf $one for @all and @all for $one
rindolf Works too.
LeoNerd Hrm.. it does?
LeoNerd deparse: $one for @all and @all for $one
buubot LeoNerd: Error: syntax error at (eval 107195) line 1, near "@all for "
LeoNerd You can't use two postmod fors in a single statement
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Syntax Fun

The func

Display

as841 Hi, i am doing a print $drh->func('createdb',$database,"localhost","root",$password,'admin'); but getting this Can't call method "func" on an undefined value
as841 could anyone point me in the right direction ?
Yaakov o/~ Ow we want the func / Give up the func / Ow we need the func / We gotta have that func o/~ </drforr>
rindolf We got the func!
rindolf Forget the fee func, we've got the see func!
as841 wtf?
as841 did i launch a movement or what ?
Yaakov What the func?!
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline The func

More Than One Way for a Cat to Paw

Display

* f00li5h paws at dazjorz
dazjorz f00li5h! :)
f00li5h how goes it?
dazjorz it goes very fine. :)
* pkrumins f00s at pawlish
* f00li5h pkrums at pawkrumins
pkrumins f00li5h, thank you sir! =^_^=
f00li5h dazjorz: I am quite well
* dazjorz li5hes at f00paw
* dazjorz rins at pawdolf... man, I could go on forever.
pkrumins haha
pkrumins pawdolf
* pkrumins dazes at pawjorz
* dazjorz gumbys at .. oh well
* pkrumins paws at GumbyBRAIN
GumbyBRAIN Ik paws at gumbybrain.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline More Than One Way for a Cat to Paw

Bit by bit

Display

Similian is there a smart way to read a file to a certain string bit by bit ?
Similian which loop to use?
rindolf Similian: you can read it byte by byte.
rindolf Similian: do you want to read the whole thing?
Similian no
Similian too big 200 MB
simcop2387-lab reading bit by bit is usually not supported by most operating systems
rindolf Similian: then do you want to read one byte at a time?
ik or one line at a time?
Similian guess a line would be better
rindolf simcop2387-lab: it is on my rindolfOS running on Intel 1001.
rindolf Which was a 1-bit processor.
ik heh
ik I had a half-bit processor
ik it just stored ones
danieldg ik: that would be a zero-bit processor then
ik no no
danieldg half-bit processor stores 0's or sqrt(2)'s
ik sqrt(2) may as well be 1
simcop2387-lab rindolf: a 1 bit processor would be a hell of a thing to work with
danieldg not if you can't test it unless it's one
ik We're not talking about numbers, we're talking about on and off, true and false, whatever you want to call it
ik sqrt(2) is nonzero, so it's one.
rindolf danieldg: not 1/sqrt(2)?
danieldg hmm it would probably be that, yes
simcop2387-lab my proc uses sqrt[-1]!
ik may as well
danieldg ik: think quantum computers. It tests true with probability 1/sqrt(2)
ik I'm not talking about a quantum computer..
danieldg well a 1/2 bit computer clearly can't be classical
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Bit by bit

Log Analyser in Haskell

Display

rindolf whoppix: what's up?
whoppix rindolf, haskelling through the night.
rindolf whoppix: ah.
whoppix rindolf, im pretty much a beginner, tho.
rindolf whoppix: yes, I learned Haskell back at the time.
rindolf whoppix: I tried to write a log analyser in Haskell once.
rindolf whoppix: it segfaulted.
rindolf whoppix: a CL-one was much better.
Caelum rindolf: haha
whoppix sadness
rindolf whoppix: then people showed me how to write it better.
rindolf whoppix: but it segfaulted too.
whoppix haha
Caelum hahaha
Zoffix lol
rindolf whoppix: I gave up on using Haskell for production.
Caelum rindolf: I've submitted your story to bash.org
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Log Analyser in Haskell

Best Kind of Bugs

Display

rindolf perlmonkey2: I've ran into a strange problem with CMake. It's some kind of bug that disappears after running a few commands.
perlmonkey2 rindolf: heh, the best kind of bugs are intermittant and only happen under load :P
rindolf perlmonkey2: it's not load.
daemon The best kind of bugs are the ones that do not happen at all :)
rindolf daemon: heh.
rindolf daemon++
Altreus The best kind of bugs are the ones that only happen to people you hate.
perlmonkey2 hahahaha
Altreus Those aren't usually bugs
Altreus >:)
daemon Altreus, you mean the ones you coded to happen to that said person ;)
daemon hehe
Altreus Not being able to reproduce strange behaviour is fine too
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Best kind of bugs

The IRC-Based UNIX Shell

Display

* Zoffix &
^Quiddity Zoffix: fg
apeiron ^Quiddity, no
apeiron kill %1
rindolf kill -9 apeiron
apeiron rindolf, EPERM
^Quiddity kill: apeiron: arguments must be process or job IDs
rindolf apeiron: sudo kill -9 apeiron
^Quiddity killall -9 apeiron
rindolf pkill -9 apeiron
apeiron rindolf, user rindolf is not in the sudoers file, this event will be reported
* apeiron wonders what it says about him that he has that error message pretty much memorized
^Quiddity apeiron: that you don't spend enough time issuing commands correctly
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline The IRC-Based UNIX Shell

Retardedness

Display

rindolf mst: sorry for that - that was not my intention.
mst rindolf: I know it wasn't. you aren't that retarded. but the way your comment came across was :)
rindolf mst: yes.
rindolf mst++
rindolf mst: "you aren't that retarded." - you shouldn't insult my retardedness (sp?). I worked all my life to be so retarded.
Altreus I think you can spell made-up words like 'retardedness' however you like
carpftb if you're a retard.
Botje heh
Botje working hard is the exact opposite of retardedness :]
Altreus hardly working
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Retardedness

How to name a new Flickr-module

Display

jfroebe trying to come up with a replacement name for my Flickr::Simple2.. (it is based off of XML::Simple rather than XML::Parser::Lite::Tree) - Net::Flickr, Flickr::API, Flickr::Simple are already taken. Any ideas? I'm coming up blank for a name
jfroebe It is a Perl interface to Flickr
mofino wait
rindolf jfroebe: ah, I saw your message on Chicago.pm
rindolf jfroebe: maybe WWW::Flickr
mofino you found others and decided you needed to make ANOTHER perl interface to flickr?
jfroebe the other ones have been broken for a long time (either because of use of the abandoned XML::Parser::Lite::Tree module or because the authentication method was never correctly implemented)
buu jfroebe: Please no more names involving ::Simple
rindolf buu: ::Tiny
jfroebe WWW::Flickr is a good possibility
buu Thanks rindolf.
mofino hah tiny is the new simple
rindolf ::Minimal.
buu ::SeriouslyfuckingSmall
rindolf ::NotEnough
rindolf ::GargantuanlySmall
rindolf ::Minuscule
apeiron ::Warning::Uses::XML::Simple::And::Thus::Has:: Terrible::Performance::And::Memory::Usage
Fah ::Deficient
mofino stay in the Flickr:: space
rindolf apeiron++
mofino if there already is one
jfroebe mofino.. that's the problem what to name it
nadim ::Nano
nadim that should be small enough and it sounds serious
mofino jfroebe, something in Flickr:: ;)
rindolf ::Femto
jfroebe lol - understood
mofino jfroebe, ::Improved ::Modern ::Lite ::Tiny ::FUCKYEAH
rindolf jfroebe: a Rose by any other name...
mofino IS A DUCK
rindolf I think half the posts to module-authors are about "How shall I name this module?"
mofino haha
ik I use perlmonks for that ^_^
rindolf jfroebe: I'm not a fan of XML::Simple either.
mofino XML::Simple is teh awesome
ik 1;
ik XML::Simple is teh sux
mofino whatever
ik "this could be an arrayref or a hashref or a nothingref depending on how many thingies were in your doo-dad"
mofino force it
ik yes
mofino but yeah, that is a bit annoying
rindolf ik++ - my thoughts exactly.
mofino OH SUDDEN HASHREF
apeiron XML::Simple is the MySQL of XML parsers.
mofino haha
mofino ahh mysql, DOOOMED
rindolf Haha # apeiron++
kent\n lol @ > apeiron
drforr There's a reason it's called "Simple." You'll find out about 3 days after you start using it.
kent\n would it be anything releated to being feature-incomplete
drforr That would be be why it's "simple".
jfroebe but for simple XML data (i.e. Flickr's REST API), it is more than sufficient
kent\n define "simple" XML
kent\n $xml = '<' # already too complex
jfroebe kent - lol
jfroebe :)
jfroebe thoughts on Flickr::YA::API ?
jfroebe for a name
mofino jfroebe, YA?
jfroebe yet another
mofino ...
mofino just pick a name
mofino Flickr::API
mofino oh, nevermind
jfroebe mofino - now you see.. all the good ones are taken ;-)
mofino maybe you had it at Flickr::Simple2
kent\n Flickr::API:: something
kent\n or something
mofino kent\n, namespace already in use
rindolf Flickr::Two
mofino jfroebe, since your API is an improvement over Simple
nadim mst: lol
kent\n Flickr::API::SucksLess
rindolf jfroebe: you can call it Flickr::Jfroebey
jfroebe mofino, I think you might be right.
kent\n Flicker::API::FAFINAFA
jfroebe rindolf - lol ... my head is already big enough lol
mofino jfroebe, i mean, if that's what it is, it shows a clear progression from Simple
kent\n ( Flicker::API::FAFINAFA is not a flickr api )
nadim Flicker::rekcilF
rindolf jfroebe: I have released Spork::Shlomify with some random changes to Spork that I needed.
rindolf Well, I use subclassing to implement them.
jfroebe lmao
apeiron You forked that spork!
rindolf apeiron: it's not a fork! It's an improved spork!
rindolf Flickr::Bettr
kent\n Flickr::Strobe
kent\n ( its a bit brighter )
kent\n Flickr::OnAndOff
nadim Flickr::FullBeam
nadim Flickr::FullLights
kent\n Flickr::2009
mofino Flickr::Meat
kent\n that way somebody will be able to invent something better next year
kent\n and call it Flickr::2010
mofino Flickr::rkcilF
mofino Flickr::Barbie::Edition
mofino Flickr::Nuts
nadim Flickr::3b0f3a25d07e5d9dbdf98db15ee70410 (and no, it is not random)
mofino Flickr::911wasaninsidejob
nadim hehe
mofino haha
jfroebe thanks guys :) I've requested the Flickr::Simple2 namespace via pause
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline "A rose by any other name…" (and a little on XML::Simple)

Whatever

Display

Mel|work Yaakov: icke==troll?
rindolf Mel|work: no, he's not a troll.
Yaakov Mel|work: No, icke is just... enthusiastic about "channel purity"
Mel|work k....
* rindolf hates when people abuse the == operator in English for "contained in"
apeiron rindolf, "icke contained in troll"? That's not what Mel|work meant.
tarbo sure he did, if you make troll a set of users
rindolf apeiron: what he meant by icke == troll is that icke belongs to the set of trolls.
rindolf apeiron: not that every troll in the world is icke.
apeiron rindolf, No, he was asking if icke is a troll.
icke $icke->isa('Troll');
icke (false)
rindolf apeiron: is-a means "contained in the set of objects with the property of"
rindolf apeiron: mathematically speaking.
apeiron rindolf, Okay, so you're assigning the mathematical meaning of == to its usage in a *perl* channel?
apeiron rindolf, Now who's fiddling with meanings, eh?
rindolf apeiron: whatever.
apeiron 'whatever' is what those who have lost their argument say.
rindolf apeiron: whatever.
apeiron ^ QED
rindolf apeiron: whatever.
PerlJam apeiron: I thought that's what people who don't care say.
apeiron PerlJam, If one doesn't care, they wouldn't respond.
PerlJam apeiron: whatever
PerlJam ;-)
rindolf LOL.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Whatever

Dishsort

Display

rindolf My father and I joked about sorting the dishes in the dishwasher.
rindolf My father said: "If you won't sort the dishwasher, the dishwasher won't be sorted."
Loci64 rindolf: bubble sort *g*
icke dishsort
rindolf Then I said "No, it won't be sorted by me."
rindolf So he said "No, it won't be sorted at all. We will throw the dishwasher."
rindolf "Along with all the dishes."
rindolf Loci64: bubble sort is inefficient.
rindolf Loci64: you should use quicksort or mergesort.
whoppix or bashsort, or heapsort!
icke yeah, but thorough.
rindolf Loci64: or for small values of "N" - insertion sort.
whoppix although I can't remember if those were stable.
rindolf whoppix: what is bashsort?
icke that matters for a dishwasher
EvanCarroll /bin/sort
EvanCarroll duh
Loci64 hehe, but dishwashers usually have medium to large numbers of N ;-) maybe trashsort solves the problem
rindolf EvanCarroll: perldoc -f sort is more portable.
whoppix rindolf, shellsort, not bashsort, sorry :)
rindolf But I'll need to build a robot to use it with the dishes.
icke cshsort
EvanCarroll here must be a trillion sorting algos
EvanCarroll and 9/10 of them are total shit
EvanCarroll and inferior in every way.
EvanCarroll This sorting algorithem is coveted if you KNOW that only one value is out of perfect order and it sits in the second to last position of the input.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline dishsort

Good scalar localtime()

Display

rindolf Good localtime(), #perl!
sproingie rindolf: good scalar localtime to you
rindolf sproingie: oooh! scalar context.
sproingie well i didn't want to make ya parse it
rindolf sproingie: it is implied however.
sproingie (er unparse it)
rindolf Good strftime($format, localtime()).
rindolf But better use DateTime.
rindolf Or something.
icke sub good ($$$) { ... }
rindolf icke: yes.
rindolf eval: good localtime(), #perl!
buubot3 rindolf: ERROR: syntax error at (eval 21) line 1, near "good localtime"
Altreus eval: 'hi rindolf how is your '.scalar localtime.'?'
buubot3 Altreus: hi rindolf how is your Tue Mar 10 15:43:13 2009?
rindolf Altreus: how is my Tuesday, 10-March-2009?
rindolf Altreus: or do you mean down right to that exact second.
Altreus rindolf: I gave you as much information as I could for you to use as you see fit.
Altreus If you don't need it all you can just take the date
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Good scalar localtime()

The Module::Build Saga

Display

rindolf The Module::Build saga goes on!
mst Module::Build isn't a saga, it's a fucking horror series
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Module::Build

How to say IP?

Display

Altreus Hmm I should have checked the licence on Inline::Lua
dwu orochi_: licence it and people will steal it anyway :)
Yaakov Well, you can try to steal that, but it would be like a mouse stealing a battle tank.
dwu Altreus: you mean acronym?
Altreus Perl license
Altreus dwu: n
Altreus IP is not pronounced as a word so it is not an acronym.
Altreus At least not in the original meaning of the word: which is the only meaning given by a majority of dictionaries
Yaakov Yes, it's not a true acronym, though the word now has that baggage.
orochi_ Ip Ip Ip!
Altreus ni!
* orochi_ runs away
dwu Altreus: i say ip... :)
Yaakov IP would be an abbreviation.
dwu also, initials? but isms are cool.
rindolf I see Eye.Pea.
dwu oooh yes.
dwu and dead people?
* rindolf is listening to Sesame Street - Yip Yip Martians
Altreus dwu: Intent is involved; just because you say it as a word does not mean it was meant to be said as a word ;)
Altreus wikipedia knows about it, and has like a million sauces cited
Altreus mostly dictionaries
Yaakov YAPC is an acronymic moniker! BE THERE
dwu Altreus: well absolutement :) also, yumy, i like bernaise.
rindolf I say* Eye.Pea.
dwu hrrrm, the oxford cream dictionary. *nomnomnom*
dwu rindolf: awww.
ne2k__ Eye.Pea.Freely
rindolf dwu: heh
ne2k__ no-one says "ip", everyone says "Eye Pea"
Altreus Ip address
dwu rindolf: can you just -say- dead people, for the heck of it?
rindolf Yip address
dwu ne2k__: provably false. i need an ip address, stat!
Altreus yiff address?
rindolf dwu: I say dead people.
dwu <3 rindolf
rindolf dwu: I say.
dwu you do :)
Altreus I say I say I say
rindolf dwu: :-)
ne2k__ dwu: you can't stat an ip address, only a file
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline How to say IP?

And you coll yourself a programmer

Display

rindolf Su-Shee: it's VBA, not VB.
rindolf Su-Shee: completely different beast.
rindolf Su-Shee: and much saner.
rindolf Su-Shee: I don't know VB.
rindolf Never had the need.
c0bra _Fauchi95_: alright
fuzzix rindolf: And you coll yourself a programmer...
rindolf And hopefully will never have the need.
rindolf fuzzix: call
fuzzix rindolf: Good coll. Dvorak's tough after spending the day on qwerty :)
rindolf fuzzix: coll again?
rindolf Hmm... there is such a word called "coll".
fuzzix rindolf: That one was a joke :)
c0bra why stop now? he's on a roll
rindolf Wonder what it means.
rindolf fuzzix: ah.
simcop2387 c0bra: a rick roll?
rindolf rall
c0bra a coll roll
rindolf roll the ball.
rindolf rall the boll.
rindolf And go to the Super-bowl.
c0bra Coll\, v. t. [OF. coler, fr. L. collum neck.] To embrace.
rindolf "Rolling is hard. Let's go to the mall."
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline You coll yourself a programmer

Chuck Norris as a Refactorer

Display

Su-Shee 2010 is planned more or less as a refactoring year.
DrForr_ A whole *year*? What physical plane of existence do you reside on?
Su-Shee DrForr_: there's also bugs to fix and systems to care for and things like that. it's not that we're locked into the closet and a year later a new, shiny product is released. ;)
DrForr_ Closet optional.
Su-Shee I'm not a wonderwoman refactoring half a million lines of perl in a week, sorry. :)
rindolf Su-Shee: Chuck Norris refactors 10 millions lines of perl before lunch.
Su-Shee rindolf: hm. that's the reason.. I'm not as hairy as chuck norris and I don't have a beard...
rindolf Su-Shee: ah.
rindolf Su-Shee: Chuck Norris also wrote a complete Perl 6 implementation.
Su-Shee rindolf: I heard, he already wrote Perl 7.
rindolf Su-Shee: yes.
* rindolf wants to be as awesome as Chuck when he grows up.
Su-Shee rindolf: I envy you. I'll never be as awesome without a beard.
rindolf Su-Shee: heh.
rindolf Su-Shee: it doesn't matter if you're rigid on the outside as long as you're rigid on the inside.
Su-Shee chuck norris doesn't make mistakes.
rindolf Su-Shee: Chuck Norris corrects God.
Su-Shee rindolf: I'll apply as his secretary.
rindolf Su-Shee: as Chuck's?
Su-Shee rindolf: yes.
rindolf Su-Shee: OK.
rindolf Chuck Norris doesn't code. When he sits next to a computer, it just does whatever he wants.
Su-Shee I'll tell my boss tomorrow. Chuck is who he wants.
rindolf Su-Shee: Chuck Norris is his own boss.
rindolf Su-Shee: if you hire him, he'll tell your boss what to do.
Su-Shee good point.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Becoming as awesome as Chuck Norris is

The Voices Tell Me So.

Display

integral hi perly!
perlygatekeeper hey Chris, hey integral
perlygatekeeper dabreegster, don't know you do I but HEY anyway
perlygatekeeper what's been up?
dabreegster Ignore me, fine.
* dabreegster goes in a corner
Chris62vw dabreegster is the man, man
dabreegster Ah, that's better.
rindolf perlygatekeeper: yo, yo, yo, dude!
perlygatekeeper rindolf!!
rindolf perlygatekeeper: what's up?
perlygatekeeper hmmm
perlygatekeeper not much
perlygatekeeper you?
rindolf perlygatekeeper: fine. Let me recall what I said to ezra.
rindolf perlygatekeeper: I'm fine. Got into a few flamewars, and escaped alive to tell the tale.
rindolf perlygatekeeper: worked a bit on my story "The Human Hacking Field Guide".
rindolf perlygatekeeper: (which, BTW, you appear there (as your IRC nick at least)
rindolf perlygatekeeper: and now working on the Computer Graphics section of my homepage.
perlygatekeeper rindolf, what the hell?
rindolf perlygatekeeper: excuse me?
perlygatekeeper rindolf was that someone pretending to be me?
perlygatekeeper I never said those things
rindolf perlygatekeeper: it's a fictitious story.
rindolf perlygatekeeper: relax.
dabreegster perlygatekeeper: or you could be the imposter right now... or maybe just schizophrenic.
rindolf dabreegster: MPDed not schizophrenic.
rindolf dabreegster: schizophrenia is not Multi-Persona-Disordered.
b0at perlygatekeeper: It's fan fiction from your fan!
dabreegster rindolf: what's the difference?
rindolf dabreegster: MPD is when there are several personalities living inside your brain.
rindolf dabreegster: in schizophrenia, you have one I-ness, but hear voices, hallucinate and stuff.
dabreegster rindolf: Ah. Why is it considered a disorder? MPD could be quite useful... One would have different perspectives on a subject.
perlygatekeeper where's beth, she'll know it's me
integral But how will we know it's beth?!
dabreegster rindolf: Oh, I have MPD then, not schizophrenia. I don't hallucinate.
dabreegster integral: WE DON'T!
b0at I don't hallucinate, but my other personality does.
dabreegster How do I know all of you exist? Am I just a figment of my own imagination?
dabreegster b0at: Interesting...
rindolf dabreegster: Julian Jaynes describes schizophrenia very well in his "The Origins of Consciousness during the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind book".
integral nono, you're all just figments of _lilo_'s imagination
dabreegster rindolf: I'll check it out
b0at he wishes
dabreegster integral: and you?
perlygatekeeper the voices tell me if it's really beth or not
dabreegster perlygatekeeper: The voices tell me everything.
dabreegster Wait, I do have the Voices. Maybe I have MPD _and_ schizophrenia.
b0at Ah, but the question is: do the Voices have voices?
rindolf dabreegster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Origin_of_Consciousness_in_the_Breakdown_of_the_Bicameral_Mind
b0at And if so, is it your own voice?
dabreegster b0at: And do the voices of the voices have voices?
b0at That's just going too far.
dkr don't worry, those are angels, invest in tarot cards and you will be able to understand them
dabreegster b0at: and if it's not, then could it be the voice of........ integral? rindolf? or.... buu!
b0at buu has other plans for our empty skulls
dabreegster b0at: and if they do, then what do the voices of the voices of the voices of the Voices sound like?
integral *sob* it's the cabbages. The cabbages keep telling me to do things
Botje really? most of the time it's the socks that tell me stuff
dabreegster integral: The lawn gnomes tell me. They're........everywhere...*sniffle*
integral *blubber* the socks are worse, there's moths living in them
dabreegster The lawn gnomes tell me to stay away from Life. They force me to write poetry.
dabreegster integral: *whispering* are the _moths_ the Voices? or the voices of the Voices? or the voices of the voices of the Voices?
* dabreegster goes back to reading
integral *looks furtively around for moths*
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline The voices told me so.

Hacking someone into a hacker

Display

rindolf Su-Shee: I'm not good in detecting sarcasm over IRC.
rindolf But naturally sometimes say sarcastic things myself.
* Patterner cuts his Nerd Membership Card in small pieces
Su-Shee rindolf: that's why god gave us the ;) smiley ;)
rindolf Su-Shee: not God, but a Russian enterpreneur who trademarked it.
* rindolf wishes we were all speaking in XML.
rindolf J/K.
rindolf Even Perl is not good enough for human communication.
Su-Shee rindolf: are you really still that nerdy in your age?
rindolf Su-Shee: I guess.
rindolf Su-Shee: nerdy or geeky?
rindolf Su-Shee: I.e: technologically inclined or having no social life?
* rindolf is both though.
Su-Shee rindolf: so let's called it nerky. ;)
rindolf But hopefully once I get a gf, I'll be less of a Nerd.
Su-Shee rindolf: what makes you think that?
rindolf Su-Shee: I'll go out.
rindolf Su-Shee: and stuff.
rindolf Su-Shee: I also consider to start studying in Tel Aviv Uni.
Su-Shee rindolf: and why does that require a girl friend?
rindolf English/Hebrew/etc. or something.
rindolf Lots of girls there. :-)
rindolf Su-Shee: going out?
Su-Shee those are language-skills humanities-department girls. ;)
Su-Shee rindolf: yes.
rindolf Su-Shee: I like language geeks.
rindolf Thing is I think my knowledge of English and Hebrew is too superficial.
rindolf And I lack the discipline to correct it on my own.
Su-Shee rindolf: language departments like English are usually exactly _not_ geek-ish departments.
rindolf Su-Shee: you mean they are not tech-savvy?
rindolf But you can be an English geek.
Su-Shee rindolf: they're not even language geeks usually.
rindolf Or a hacker of English.
rindolf Su-Shee: really?
rindolf How sad.
Su-Shee rindolf: you know some people just want to have good language skills and read books and communicate.
peterrooney a good hacker will know at least three languages.
rindolf Well, maybe it's different in Israel.
rindolf peterrooney: human ones, right?
peterrooney rindolf: at least one of them should be human
rindolf I know English, Hebrew, studied Literary Arabic for 6 years and forgot most of it, and have some rudimentary French.
rindolf peterrooney: ok.
rindolf peterrooney: I think ever hacker should know Perl, Python, Haskell, C, Scheme/Lisp and Bash.
rindolf And HTML/XHTML+CSS+etc.
Su-Shee thank god I'm no hacker. ;)
* rindolf hacks Su-Shee into a hacker.
Su-Shee rindolf: no you won't. one can perfectly well do nice tech stuff without degrading into someone he/she's not.
rindolf Su-Shee: don't you like programming ? Didn't you contribute to FOSS?
Su-Shee rindolf: aaand? I can do that without declaring myself as hacker, nerd, geek or whatever.
rindolf Su-Shee: OK.
rindolf Su-Shee: but it still makes you a hacker.
Su-Shee rindolf: trust me, I'm very much not a hacker. really. honest to god not.
* rindolf gives a blue badge of honour saying "Hacker" to Su-Shee
rindolf Su-Shee: too late, you're one of us now! ;-)
rindolf "Resistance is futile."
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Hacking someone into a hacker

Selling Perl Documentation at Bargain Prices

Display

FreakGuard icke, how to start REPL?
icke FreakGuard: looked in the docs?
FreakGuard icke, no.
icke you got to load it from CPAN
FreakGuard icke, yeah, I've installed it.
* Altreus sells FreakGuard perl docs at a reasonable price only $9.99 each
icke perldoc Devel::REPL is the direct way to info then
* Altreus wrings his hands and cackles
FreakGuard icke, thanks :P
* rindolf bests Altreus' bargain by 1 cent.
rindolf Reminds me of what I learned in Game Theory.
* Altreus offers free delivery
* rindolf allows free download
rindolf Of course quality > price.
* rindolf offers a deluxe edition of the Perl documentation for 1,000 USD plus shipping and handling.
huf diamond-encrusted?
rindolf See http://perldoc.perl.org/ for a preview.
rindolf huf: natural diamonds, too.
rindolf huf: Canadian diamonds.
huf well, if <> is natural... :)
rindolf huf: heh.
rindolf huf: not this kind of diamond.
* Altreus compresses if () under several million tonnes of rock for a few aeons
rindolf I also give free spaceships - <=>
infrared heh
rindolf Diamonds are heresy! We need PEARLs!
rindolf /usr/bin/PEARL
Altreus f00li5h: Seems like it!
FreakGuard I prefer other gems :-)
Altreus I suggested to Think Geek that they should do Perl necklaces but they didn't
rindolf FreakGuard: Ruby gems?
FreakGuard rindolf, correct.
Altreus The rare PHP
Altreus Darling I got you a PHP wedding ring
Altreus oh it broke
rindolf Altreus: as PHP tends to.
* rindolf laughts maniacally.
Altreus you maniac!
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Given enough suckers, all profits become shallow

The ApeironPhone

Display

Enl apeiron: because I write client side (Provider) which sends push messages to the phone and checks for new mail in perl
rindolf Enl: a cellphone?
apeiron No, a rotary POTS phone that's capable of receiving email, rindolf.
Enl rindolf: iphone, yep
rindolf apeiron: :-) apeiron++
rindolf apeiron: I want a phone like that!
rindolf apeiron: do you sell them?
apeiron rindolf, Yes, and I have some oceanfront property for you, too.
rindolf apeiron: would you accept some of my copious gold bars in return?
apeiron rindolf, No. I only deal in Latinum!
rindolf apeiron: Latinum.
rindolf apeiron: gold-pressed Latinum?
apeiron yes.
rindolf apeiron: I only have silver-pressed Latinum.
Enl rindolf: get an iPhone, lol
rindolf apeiron: would you accept LeoNerd and nanonyme as substitutes ? You can sell them for mucho Latinum.
apeiron heh
rindolf Enl: iPhones are worthless.
* rindolf conspires to steal the ApeironPhones.
rindolf I didn't say I was honest.
* apeiron jealously guards his G1
Enl rindolf: now really
rindolf Enl: you should get an ApeironPhone too.
rindolf Enl: chicks love it.
apeiron what
Enl rindolf: pff, chicks dont matter
rindolf I would kill for an ApeironPhone!
Su-Shee ahaem?
* rindolf kills Su-Shee and takes her ApeironPhone.
apeiron ...
apeiron wtf.
go|dfish hahaha
* rindolf uses his RindolfMindReading™ to see who else has an ApeironPhone.
apeiron Put down the acid, Shlomi. o.o
huf like that'll help
huf he's still got ~8 hrs on it
Su-Shee rindolf: I have an apeiron-phone?
Su-Shee where did buu go anyway?
rindolf Su-Shee: you had one.
rindolf Su-Shee: before you died.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline The ApeironPhone - you know you want it

use Zaba

Display

rindolf Su-Shee: "I always wonder why the people I hang out with are so pedantic. And then I remember: because they are so pedantic." -- a Perl-ILer. ;-)
Zaba rindolf, because they use warnings
* rindolf adds "use Zaba;" to his code.
Zaba oh no, I'm being used!
* rindolf adds "abuse Zaba;" to his code.
rindolf Next: "misuse Zaba;"
Zaba ouch!
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline use Zaba

She can smoke…

Display

rindolf She's a hot chick.
rindolf But she smokes.
go|dfish She can smoke as long as she's smokin'.
Channel #perlcafe
Network Freenode
Tagline She can smoke…

iCanHazPad?

Display

→johnjohn01 has joined #perl
johnjohn101 when will I be able to write a perl gui that will work on the ipad?
rindolf johnjohn101: iPad?
rindolf johnjohn101: was it released yet?
rindolf johnjohn101: I think there are Perl bindings for Cocoa/Carbon/etc.
johnjohn101 today.. Just getting sucked by the hype
rindolf johnjohn101: ah.
rindolf johnjohn101: I'm incredibly suspicious of Apple.
johnjohn101 why's that?
* Caelum will wait for the cheap ipad knockoff that runs Android and can multitask
rindolf johnjohn101: http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/anti/apple/
rindolf 133 links and going strong.
* rindolf thinks he has a link on his homepage or blogs for every occasion.
johnjohn101 they definitely know how to hype their new products. I get so suspicious of the hype. Nothing ever lives up to that type of billing
rindolf johnjohn101: yes, I'm suspicious of hype too.
gooshie rindolf the new apple maxipad is out today.. leave it to apple to create a new device with all the cost of a high end laptop.. the performance of a netbook and the interface of a cellphone
Caelum gooshie: and no multitasking
rindolf gooshie: heh.
rindolf gooshie++
johnjohn101 will google be able to match it?
johnjohn101 anytime soon?
rindolf Some technologies were not hyped and yet became very popular - UNIX, C, HTML.
Caelum there's no amazingly complicated technology involved
Caelum it's just a big iphone
claes_ nicely packaged
johnjohn101 drop it once and it's unusable?
gooshie ...if they just made a cover to protect the screen.. and then maybe because they had like a cover the inside could be the screen and the other part could then be a keyboard!.. that would be cool!
johnjohn101 gooshie: good thing you have an open mind about the product!!
* gooshie d:-/
gooshie ..the new apple maxipad... when your laptop is too big.. your iphone is too small and your wallet is too full.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline iCanHazPad?

Web Development Frameworks

Display

markl_ so while i'm on the subject, is there a good perl HTML framework similar to what CakePHP is to PHP ?
markl_ like an MVC style environment
markl_ so i'm wondering if mason is "state of the art" or if there are other tools to consider these days :)
DrForr Catalyst.
markl_ catalyst ok, cool ty
rindolf markl_: there are plenty of other web-devel frameworks.
rindolf perlbot: web frameworks
perlbot rindolf: CGI-Application (and Titanium), CGI-Application-Plus, CGI-Builder, CGI-Prototype, Jifty, Catalyst (and Reaction), Mojo, SweetPea, Dancer, Gantry, AxKit, WebGUI
markl_ rindolf: hmm, way too many it would appear :)
rindolf markl_: yeah.
markl_ what are the easiest ones for people good with perl but not HTML/CSS/AJAX experts ?
rindolf markl_: not that Ruby or PHP have fewer.
markl_ or the most widely adopted one ?
rindolf markl_: the most popular appears to be Catalyst.
markl_ catalyst seems to at least have a book :)
rindolf markl_: it has several books.
rindolf markl_: I worked a bit with Mojolicious, and it wasn't too bad, but it reinvents a lot of wheels.
rindolf Due to its philosophy.
rindolf markl_: I also did some Catalyst projects.
rindolf Catalyst is a bit complicated.
rindolf sawyer: can you comment about Dancer?
sawyer Dancer is a lightweight web framework, it aims to make website development easy and rapid
Su-Shee like all the other web frameworks :)
sawyer for complex or extensive websites, i recommend Catalyst
sawyer but for smaller or not-as-complex website, Dancer is what i use
markl_ ok ty
* Su-Shee wants the one which makes it hard, complicated and difficult ;)
sawyer Su-Shee, true :)
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Web Development Frameworks

Slippers and Perl

Display

mst frikinz: but you're welcome to ignore us, just come back for your "I told you so" when the penny finally drops :D
rindolf buu: define penny finally drops
rindolf buubot: define penny finally drops
buubot rindolf: penny n 1: a fractional monetary unit of Ireland and the United Kingdom; equal to one hundredth of a pound 2: a coin worth one-hundredth of the value of the basic unit [syn: {cent}, {centime}] [also: {pence} (pl)]
dngor frikinz: Reflex is still pretty raw, but it's eventy without so much loopy.
rindolf In Hebrew we say "The phone token has fallen" instead of "the penny finally drops".
dngor Is that related to "the other shoe has dropped"?
rindolf dngor: well, it means the same thing as the English expression - "I finally got to the bottom of it."
rindolf Or understood it.
dngor Oh, they're completely different idioms.
* mst beats dngor with a slipper
rindolf mst: :-D
Su-Shee kinky.
mst Su-Shee: wrt the topic ["Su-Shee wants the web-development framework that makes web-development hard, difficult and complicated"], it's called Maypole :)
rindolf mst: heh.
rindolf mst: yes, I can imagine that about Maypole.
Su-Shee mst, avar: thank you so much. ;)
Su-Shee please mail the sourcecode to rindolf who put it in the topic ;)
rindolf Su-Shee: I can CPAN it.
Su-Shee the topic?
mutewit I have a string and am looking for a quick way to extract all 5-character slices out of it.
rindolf Su-Shee: :-)
rindolf IRC-Freenode-Perl-Topic-SuShee-WebDevelFrameworks-v0.0.1.tar.gz
mutewit For eg. 'abcdef' returns 'abcde', 'bcdef'
mutewit Any suggestions?
rindolf mutewit: use subst
rindolf mutewit: use substr
rindolf mutewit: with a map
rindolf eval: my $long_str = "0123456789abcdefgh"; [map { substr($long_s, $_, $_+5 } (0 .. length($long_s)-5)]
buubot rindolf: ERROR: syntax error at (eval 36) line 1, at EOF
rindolf eval: my $long_str = "0123456789abcdefgh"; [map { substr($long_s, $_, $_+5) } (0 .. length($long_s)-5)]
buubot rindolf: []
mutewit rindolf: Awesome.
rindolf eval: my $long_s = "0123456789abcdefgh"; [map { substr($long_s, $_, $_+5) } (0 .. length($long_s)-5)]
buubot rindolf: ["01234",123456,2345678,"3456789a","456789abc","56789abcde","6789abcdefg","789abcdefgh","89abcdefgh","9abcdefgh","abcdefgh","bcdefgh","cdefgh","defgh"]
rindolf Thrid time the charm!
mst ... thrid
* rindolf hits buubot with a big strict pragma.
* mst turns the slipper on rindolf
rindolf mst: yes, my typing sucks today.
rindolf But f**k it! IRC is not exactly the declaration of independence.
pragma_ ow!
rindolf pragma_: pardon?
* rindolf hits pragma_ with mst's slipper so it will really hurt.
pragma_ why are you hitting buubot with me?
rindolf pragma_: the strict pragma.
rindolf pragma_: not you.
rindolf perlbot: strict
perlbot rindolf: Perl strictures - http://perldoc.perl.org/strict.html
rindolf pragma_: ^^^
rindolf pragma_: we call the lowercase modules pragmata (sp?) in Perl.
rindolf http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=pragmata - hmm....
rindolf I thought pragmata was a valid plural of pragma.
dngor ow? ow!
mutewit rindolf: Are you sure that generates only strings of length 5?
rindolf mutewit: well, you need to watch from fencepost errors.
mst mutewit: hey, he got you half way there
rindolf mutewit: oh wait.
mst mutewit: how about you read p3rl.org/substr and p3rl.org/map and have a go yourself
rindolf mutewit: yes , you need substr($long_s, $_, 5)
mst mutewit: this is a help-you-to-learn channel
mst mutewit: not a "write your code for you" channel
rindolf mutewit: and beware from fencepost errors.
rindolf like substr($long_s , 1000, 5)
rindolf Because that will be ""
rindolf Or a 4 chars length.
mutewit rindolf: I wanted the length argument to be 5 :p
mutewit mst: I understand, I just missed the $_ + 5 issue.
mst mutewit: right. what I'm saying is, you should have experimented
rindolf mutewit: yes, I know.
mst mutewit: then shown us the experiment and said "I can't work out why this is still wrong, here's what I've worked out so far"
mst mutewit: then we can help you learn
mst mutewit: assuming learning to write stuff yourself is what you're aiming for
* rindolf waits for tybalt89 to come up with a funky regex to do it.
mst (if it isn't, please just throw yourself off a cliff or something, kthx ;)
rindolf mst: I think that's the case, no need to preach to mutewit about it.
mutewit mutewit: I did, and figured out the soln. when switching windows.
mst mutewit: aye. I'm just trying to explain how to get the most learning out of us as well as the most working code.
* rindolf sometimes thinks we spend much more IRC volume discussing netiquette than actually suffering from the bad netiquette.
mutewit But by the time I came back to the channel there was a whole page of "preaching".
mutewit I was using a split method with array indexing and it felt too much like a C-approach.
rindolf mutewit: oh, you split the string into chars?
mst yeah, by the time you've done map, join, split, ...
mst you've basically just reimplemented substr badly :)
mutewit rindolf: That's what I was doing, but the map/substr approach is a lot cleaner.
rindolf mutewit: yeah/
rindolf mutewit: split into chars sometimes has some uses.
rindolf mutewit: but this reminds me too much of SICP.
rindolf perlbot: sicp
perlbot rindolf: http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/ - "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs" - A Classical Text on Programming
rindolf mutewit: see - http://www.shlomifish.org/lecture/Perl/Lightning/Too-Many-Ways/slides/slide13.html
rindolf mutewit: this is how an SICP programmer will implement a simple text processing task.
mutewit SICP, love the book.
mutewit and all the OCaml work this year has given rise to a functional bent of mind
mutewit which is kinda screwing around with my perl code.
rindolf mutewit: yeah.
rindolf mutewit: http://www.shlomifish.org/lecture/Perl/Lightning/Too-Many-Ways/slides/slide12.html - this is the fastest Perl solution.
rindolf At least in speed.
rindolf It can be a little shorter with a regex lookahead, but it's less elegant and slower.
rindolf http://www.shlomifish.org/lecture/Perl/Lightning/Too-Many-Ways/slides/slide9.html - there you go.
rindolf mutewit: did you know how to program before reading SICP?
rindolf I think it's not a good introductory book.
rindolf MIT are going to ditch it in favour of some Python/Robotics curriculum.
mst I think it's only a good introductory book if you know some math and have the brain to follow it
mst it teaches a lot of hard concepts very quickly
Su-Shee mst: from a "I'm from the humanities department" point of view it's managable. it's not easy, but everyone can work with it.
tybalt89 eval: $_ = "0123456789abcdefgh"; [ /(?=(.{5}))/g ]
buubot tybalt89: ["01234",12345,23456,34567,45678,56789,"6789a","789ab","89abc","9abcd","abcde","bcdef","cdefg","defgh"]
mutewit rindolf: Yes.
rindolf mutewit: ah. Using what?
rindolf tybalt89++ # Up for the challenge.
mutewit and yes, MIT ditched SICP in favor of a Python-based intro course.
tybalt89 rindolf: I was off in other windows :(
tybalt89 mutewit: ^^ for 5 char slices
rindolf mutewit: don't use it if you want future generations to understand it.
* rindolf slaps tybalt89 with mst's slipper for golfing mutewit's solution and telling him it's a good idea.
tybalt89 rindolf: that's not golfing, just common simple regex :)
rindolf tybalt89: sigh.
rindolf tybalt89: simple.
rindolf irregular regular expression.
rindolf Maybe use Regexp::Common
mutewit I added in tybalt89's code but commented it for future reference.
mst I'd definitely use the substr approach for real code
mst tybalt89's code is cleverness to prove it can be done; I don't believe he was recommending it
tybalt89 mst: sigh, yes, I am recommending it. It's the clearest solution.
mst tybalt89: I respectfully disagree.
mst I find the substr approach far more obvious
Chazz rindolf, ty. :)
mst but then, I mostly write applications perl rather than scripts, so I only engage in regexp cleverness when actively useful
rindolf tybalt89: look-aheads and look-behinds are dark corners of the Perl not-so-reg-regexes
Yaakov In the context of this particular problem, it's pretty straightforward, but, knowledge of the development/maintenance team(s) would push my choce one way or another.
tybalt89 mst: note it took rindolf three tries, and even then he got it wrong.
rindolf tybalt89: well, I'm not focused now.
mst tybalt89: map substr($str, $_, 5), 0 .. length($str)-5; ?
mst maybe -6
* tybalt89 turns the lens, trying to focus rindolf
rindolf mst: -5
mst but it's hardly difficult; rindolf's just having a day of silly mistakes
rindolf Unit tests!
mst I'd expect him to get it right first time when on form too :)
rindolf Some clear code is hard to get right.
rindolf Doesn't make it less clear.
mst yeah
rindolf Most people will not write a correct binary search at first try.
tybalt89 "maybe -6" is proof of unclearness :)
rindolf But the correct binary search is easy to digest.
mst tybalt89: no, it's proof it's 8pm on a sunday and I'm not particularly awake either
mst but your code just made me go "hang on, WHAT?!"
mst then I had to stop and dissect it
mst -then- I saw what you were doing
rindolf mst++
mst also, the substr approach displays the semantics and the reasoning
mst whereas the regex approach displays, well, line noise, frankly
rindolf mst: why don't we agree to disagree with tybalt89 ?
rindolf mst: so how's the weather? ;-)
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Slippers and Perl

Worst Perl Programmer in the World

Display

papertigers is there just a way of importing the global variables in the module from the main script?
anno no
nadim yes
rindolf anno: you can using Exporter
anno depends
nadim but I hope no one will teach you
rindolf nadim: sorry. :-(
anno from the main script?
nadim for what?
rindolf nadim: about the Exporter.
nadim bad boy!
tm604 papertigers: yes. but definitely don't do this: { no strict 'refs'; *{"main::$_"} = sub () { $constant{$_} } foreach keys %constant; }
rindolf nadim: :-(
rindolf papertigers: please design a good API using subroutines and objects.
nadim OK I get it you are all working towards the same goal. making the worst perl developer in the universe
rindolf nadim: yes, someone has to outcompete me.
Khisanth that would be hard
rindolf nadim: I'm tired of being the worst Perl hacker for 5 years straight.
simcop2387 heh
rindolf nadim: it's not easy.
nadim .me hands the black camel to rindolf
rindolf nadim: it involves many commitments.
nadim rindolf: lol, true
Khisanth but at least it explains all the advice you have been giving
nadim hehe
rindolf Khisanth: true. :-)
rindolf LOL.
simcop2387 rindolf: i dunno if anyone actually read the code to Language::Farnsworth they might think otherwise
Khisanth and I am not joking
nadim http://search.cpan.org/dist/Lingua-tlhInganHol-yIghun/ all!
nadim rindolf: when you can program perl like that it will be a good day to die
rindolf nadim: Klingon?
nadim right
simcop2387 nadim++
rindolf nadim: heh, nice.
squeeks klingon? http://search.cpan.org/~jwalt/Acme-Lingua-NIGERIAN-1.0.0/NIGERIAN.pm blah.
shorten squeeks's url is at http://xrl.us/bhg9bo
rindolf nadim: I'll recommend it to someone so he can outcompete me.
* rindolf rubs his hands with an evil grin on his face.
Khisanth nadim: that doesn't seem to be using the correct font
nadim the module is impressing (Damian is no joke) even the documentation is great
rindolf nadim: we've got a plan!
* nadim hides
* mst dearly loves Damian's code
mst but I really do wish it was all in the Acme:: namespace where it belongs
rindolf mst: heh.
nadim I like his API's. very difficult to find something that is not complete and well thought
rindolf nadim: yes, but he tends to neglect them and then they accumulate bugs.
nadim I could list ten other names here
nadim Ingy!
rindolf nadim: heh.
nadim oops, I tried not to :)
mst nadim: IO::All
mst nadim: not *everything* ingy writes needs to be Acme
mst though, yes, quite a bit of it :D
nadim mst: I didn't mean acme. I think Ingy has a lot of great ideas.
mst oh, you're talking about maintainership
nadim yes
mst yeah, why do you think I got so good at giving my modules away?
nadim what's your secret?
tm604 ingy was responsible for jemplate, I think - still one of my favourites.
mst nadim: first you give 'em commit bits, then you give 'em co-maint, then when they're not looking you make a run for it.
* nadim makes a mental note
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline World's Worst Perl Programmer (5 years straight)

One Moose Per Child

Display

rindolf My Moose-based modules emit strange errors when ran under Devel::Cover . /me is a sad kitten.
buu When my moose emit things I begin to worry.
Su-Shee I don't even have a moose.
Su-Shee but I go to Ikea sometimes!
rindolf "I want a Moose!"
* rindolf buys a Moose for Su-Shee
rindolf One Moose Per Child.
buu A moose in every.. editor?
Su-Shee I'll have to put it in the living room.
rindolf If we perldoc -f fork a Moose-based program do we get two Meese.
rindolf Su-Shee: what if it's a Chocolate Moose?
Su-Shee now it's not the elephant in the room noone's talking about, it's the moose.
Su-Shee rindolf: real size? living room.
anno Tycho de Brahe had a moose free running in his castle Unraniborg. he found a vat of beer, drank it, fell down a stair and had to be killed.
Su-Shee hm, I could make a nice shower gel with moose milk powder and sell it exclusively to perl programmers.
rindolf anno: the astronomer?
anno yes
rindolf anno: ah, really?
Su-Shee anno: I don't have a castle.
anno few do
Su-Shee indeed.
Su-Shee wise anno.
rindolf One Castle Per Child!
Su-Shee when I do my moose presentation, I'll rename myself to Moo-Shee.
rindolf Su-Shee: and rent a Castle.
Su-Shee good idea. on company's expenses. ;)
rindolf Su-Shee: heh.
Su-Shee anno: wanna come? I own Schloss Charlottenburg now. ;)
rindolf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlottenburg_Palace - hmmm....
* rindolf contemplates what to do now.
* Su-Shee RESTs.
rindolf Maybe I'll watch more of Red vs. Blue.
rindolf Or I'll rent Schloss Charlottenburg .
rindolf Or something.
rindolf I may want to refactor the other parts of XML-Grammar-Fiction/Screenplay. I can live without testcover.
rindolf But I need my Moose.
Channel #perl
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Tagline One Moose Per Child

Do we have any doctors?

Display

dxtr Do we have any doctors in here?
rindolf dxtr: with Ph.D. or M.D.?
munik I have a PhD in Linguistics!
munik ^ lie
munik :]
dxtr rindolf: I don't care as long as they can treat patients
rindolf dxtr: heh.
munik :o
munik webmd.com
munik might be better than #perl
dxtr rindolf: That question would be fun in combat. "WE NEED A DOCTOR HERE!" - "PH.D OR M.D!?"
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Do we have any doctors in here?

It's slower

Display

tm604 eval: my $txt = "this is a test"; my $rslt = substr($txt, 4, length($txt) - 4, undef); [ $txt, $rslt ];
buubot tm604: ["this"," is a test"]
tm604 ^ can anyone suggest a neater way of writing that? thought undef for the 3rd substr parameter would work instead of explicitly giving a length.
rindolf eval: my $txt = "this is a test"; my $rslt = substr($txt, 4, - 4, q{}); [ $txt, $rslt ];
buubot rindolf: ["thistest"," is a "]
tm604 Just surprised that omitting the length for substr isn't the same as passing undef.
anno tm604: sometimes perl makes a difference between "not specified" and undef
ishi tm604: wouldn't regexpr be shorted? I'm not sure what passes as 'neat' in perl :)
ishi shorter, even...
rindolf eval: @s = ("Long string this is a test" =~ m{\A(.{0,6})(.*?)\z}ms); [@s]
buubot rindolf: ["Long s","tring this is a test"]
rindolf tm604: will that work?
tm604 rindolf: thanks, that may be a better option.
rindolf tm604: nice. :-)
Khisanth that would definitely not be "better" ...
ishi it's slower ;)
tm604 hmm, since I'm passing this through SOAP::Lite through a vpn on the other side of the world maybe three times a day, I think I'll have to rewrite this part in highly-efficient x64 assembler with fallback to GPU if available.
sacx nah you need an FPGA
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Mission critical fast

Surviving without "a"'s

Display

anno may be neat, but hard to follow
anno not fore real code
Botje qubit: cute.
Botje *anno
Su-Shee how did you get.. ah. ;)
Su-Shee Botje: clean your a so you don't slide to the q ;)
Botje Su-Shee: switch from qwerty to azerty :p
Su-Shee :)
Botje ant i'm distracted
* Su-Shee steals Botje's a while he's distracted anyway...
Botje give th.t b.ck!!
Su-Shee lAlAlAlaaaaah! :)
Botje how will i cope without .n . key!
DrForr "h".chr(ord('b')-1)."t"...
anno 4in't th4t good enough
Su-Shee *hehe* ;)
Su-Shee take anno's. ;)
mst time for 4n 4cme module!
Su-Shee god what have I done.. ;)
DrForr lipogrammatical perl.
Su-Shee is that the opposite of lowfat c?
DrForr (lipograms are works with one letter not used...)
Su-Shee ah. of course. it's leipogramm in german..
anno hmm... lipos - fat, lipein - lack
anno ah, leipein
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Surviving without the letter "a".

What would your nickname imply

Display

fedoragirl wait, people use binary packages in freebsd?
asarch fedoragirl, pkg_add -rv <package_name>
fedoragirl I thought everyone compiled from source manually or from ports
fedoragirl :(
asarch No, not any more
fedoragirl I knew it was possible
fedoragirl I just didn't realize anyone would actually do that
fedoragirl I thought it was a gimmick
EdwardIII those wacky devil worshipers over at freebsd
fedoragirl it's funny because my roomate is into demonology
fedoragirl and she actually uses fedora
fedoragirl while I, for the most part, use freebsd or debian
EdwardIII yet your nickname would imply otherwise
fedoragirl my nickname implies a lot of things
EdwardIII bsdgirl would just attract far too much attention
Su-Shee EdwardIII: thanking you for pointing out the obvious. I think, noone would have noticed otherwise.
EdwardIII come to mention it maybe i'll take that nickname arf arf
fedoragirl bsdgirl is actually taken
fedoragirl and I really should find a new one
MorgyN hats <3
rindolf -NickServ- debiangirl is not registered.
Su-Shee man, lucky for us women, there more distributions out there than women in computing. we can ALL have our own nick!
mst Su-Shee++ # roflmao
rindolf Su-Shee: heh.
Su-Shee yggdrasilgirl, slackgirl, fromscratchgirl .. imagine the possibilities.
EdwardIII slackboy sounds pretty sexy
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline What would your nickname imply

The browser for the social web

Display

rindolf LumberCartel: hi, what's up? Long time.
LumberCartel Hi rindolf. Yeah, it has been quite some time. I've been very busy setting up and supporting networks, and creating interactive web sites (written in Perl, using PostgreSQL for the database; good stuff like that). How are you?
rindolf LumberCartel: I have a job.
LumberCartel rindolf: Congratulations! What are you doing for work?
rindolf LumberCartel: I'm doing Perl+Catlayst work for a Tel Aviv based startup.
LumberCartel rindolf: Very nice!
rindolf LumberCartel: and been working on Freecell Solver ( http://fc-solve.berlios.de/ ) and http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/projects/black-hole-solitaire-solver/
rindolf I converted the Black Hole Solitaire solver to C and it is now running faster, so I ran it on the first 1 million PySolFC deals.
rindolf About 86% of them are solvable.
LumberCartel Freecell solver? What are you trying to do? Make employees feel even more bored at their already-so-boring-that-they-play-Freecell jobs? Heheh.
rindolf LumberCartel: they should learn programming and help me with Freecell Solver. Then they won't be bored.
LumberCartel heheh.
* rindolf is going to delete ~/.flock/ - useless piece of sh*t.
LumberCartel Isn't Flock that thing that spun off from Netscape?
rindolf LumberCartel: Flock is the browser for the social web.
LumberCartel Yeah, that's the one.
rindolf LumberCartel: only I found it to be the unsocial browser .
[vlad] social web?
LumberCartel A handful of my customers still use Netscape 9. They tried Flock, and hated it.
LumberCartel Or is it Netscape 8? Ah, I don't care.
LumberCartel Most of my clients use Opera or Firefox these days.
rindolf LumberCartel: Netscape 9...
* LumberCartel laughs in appreciation for the version of Netscape.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline The browser for the social web

Revision Numbers

Display

rindolf jawnsy: no version numbers of what?
jawnsy rindolf: version numbers for your documentation stuff. like a way to download the web site as a tarball, with a version number (maybe even a date)
rindolf jawnsy: ah.
rindolf jawnsy: I'm using Subversion for it.
rindolf jawnsy: I can start making releases with version numbers.
tag subversion revision numbers are not the same as version numbers, and typically shouldn't be used to source version numbers.
tag unless you don't care that the version number is totally meaningless. In that case, you might as well use a date so it can atleast mean *something*
buu tag: Let's use UUIDS!
tag oh, like git?
tag yeah it's the same
buu "Dude, version 91239213912ASD!@#ASDASDADS!@#!@!" is totally superiour to "124912312ASD1242412FF232"
tag They have no real value, other than the ability to uniquely identify a something
rindolf buu: LOL.
Botje well, git's sha1 sum at least identify a point in time
rindolf tag: I won't use subversion rev numbers.
tag without telling you jack shit about what that something is
buu To be fair, svn numbers increase..
rindolf buu: yes, but an earlier branch can have a later rev number.
rindolf buu: I think Config-IniFiles used CVS revisions as version numbers.
buu rindolf: Uh oh
buu rindolf: I feel the world around me collapsing.
Channel #perl
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Tagline Discussing revision numbers

SOAP

Display

Glanzmann Hello; Is there a perl module that can all a routine with complex typed defined in a wsdl file?
Debolaz Glanzmann: You mean a SOAP client with WSDL support?
Su-Shee wsdl as in soap and wsdl? then there is SOAP::WSDL.
Glanzmann Debolaz: Yes, but I need to write a server as well. :-)
Glanzmann Su-Shee: Okay. I'll try that one.
Debolaz Glanzmann: Didn't your mother ever tell you to not use SOAP? :)
Glanzmann Yes, she did. I'm unlucky. I'm forced to use it.
Su-Shee SOAP - you still feel dirty afterwards.
* f00li5h keeps scrubbing but doesn't feel clean
Su-Shee f00li5h: let me send you one of my handmade hemp-sheabutter-almond oil-babassu soaps. ;)
f00li5h sheabutter!
Su-Shee we're disabling our SOAP stuff. it only gets more complicated every day.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline SOAP

Eclipsed

Display

kleanchap Is there an IDE for Perl? I need to debug some of my code.
Altreus kleanchap: well there's Padre, but you'll spend as long trying to install it ...
Zaba kleanchap, perl has a debugger: perl -d
Cipher-0 There's always Komodo.
Cipher-0 I use Notepad++, but as people here will attest, I suck.
rindolf perlbot: ide
perlbot rindolf: Padre - padre.perlide.org, Komodo, Eclipse (with EPIC), KDevelop, X/GNU Emacs, gvim, TextMate; see also http://perl.net.au/wiki/Perl_developer_tools and definitely not Xcode
rindolf kleanchap: ^^^
rindolf kleanchap: and it's in the FAQ for crying out loud.
rindolf anno: yes.
kleanchap Zaba, rindolf and Altreus Thnx!
squeeks definitely not Xcode? but.. but... but... I went to all the effort to make http://github.com/squeeks/Xcode-Perl-File-Templates
rindolf kleanchap: I can recommend perl -d as well.
Altreus is perl+eclipse any good?
Altreus oh right I remember
Altreus I wanted a vim plugin for $IDE and none of them worked
squeeks "is...eclipse any good" what
Altreus squeeks: valid question >:(
kent\n eclipse seems to be one of those platforms which make me wonder what processor development has really acheived in the last 20 years.
Altreus it means you can do more shit really really slowly
kent\n "Gosh, I can still type faster than this, something is very wrong in the universe"
thrig "Gosh, eclipse killed the devo database through sheer numbers of DB connections"
kent\n I'd rather spend time programming, not sitting on my hands while eclipse decides it might work today
kent\n If I wanted to sit on my hands, I'd be using C++ ;)
LeoNerd "I hear eclipse is really nice, but I'm still waiting for it to load"
rokoteko "Gosh, eclipse's spell checker got confused between cvs and csv."
Altreus kent\n: swordfights
squeeks kent\n: so you could effectively hit your head against the keyboard
kent\n eclipse: What your momma causes when she stands up
rokoteko written using eclipse's help: sub look_mom_I_can_parse_HTML_with_regex { $_[0] =~ /HTML/ }
squeeks What was that comment that went something along the lines of "I'm a grown up now, I can eat raw cookie dough and parse HTML with regular expressions"
* kent\n thinks he should compile a list of things to bash and make it a factoid. PHP, Eclipse, Microsoft, # there's a start
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Eclipsed

Paint of the Bikeshed

Display

rindolf Regarding perlipc.pod : in the beginning of the sentence should I write "N.B. If the signal is fired, something bad happens." or "N.B.: if the signal is fired, something bad happens." ?
talexb With the colon, plz. :)
rindolf talexb: I see.
rindolf talexb: and a lowercase "if"?
talexb No, I think that could be upper case ..
rindolf talexb: I thought so too, but the original was the other way.
talexb it's a sentence unto itself.
rindolf talexb: but it's after a colon.
rindolf talexb: a colon does not start a new sentence.
talexb I dunno. My degree's in Engineering, not English. :(
talexb For me, the colon says, "Thing to the left is the title, thing to the right is the content.
rindolf talexb: OK, thanks anyway.
PerlJam rindolf: I'd capitalize "If"
sdgvf rindolf: how about just 'Note:'
* talexb \o/
PerlJam sdgvf: because he wants to "Note Well:" not just "Note:" :)
Zaba http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colon_(punctuation), 'Use of capitals'
anno Note well: ...
sdgvf most people, even if they know what N.B. stands for, aren't going to note it a whole lot harder than if it just says Note:
rindolf Bikeshedding.
rindolf PerlJam: according to Zaba's wikipedia link, it should not be capitalised.
Su-Shee what it's for nota bene?
PerlJam rindolf: My reading of the article is inconclusive as to what it "should" be. It seems to all depend on who's manual of style you subscribe to.
^Mike\b Su-Shee: yes
Su-Shee if a real sentence which could stand for its own follows, I start with a capital letter. if not, I don't.
talexb By the way: Don't forget what colour you'd like the bike shed painted.
PerlJam talexb: "color" ;->
talexb Pffffffft. ;)
LeoNerd Wait.. we're -painting- the bikeshed now? Nobody ever mentioned paint before...
talexb LeoNerd And you're head of the committee to choose the new COLOUR.
Su-Shee "first we choose the color, then we choose the paint." (from my english teacher at school.. :)
LeoNerd $ perl -MConvert::Color -E'say Convert::Color->new("bikeshed")->as_rgb->rgb' => Unable to parse color name bikeshed at -e line 1
kent\n doesn't the paint type preclude the colour choice? and paint manufacturer?
LeoNerd Hehe.. Now we're arguing about the process of bikeshedding.. Go meta :)
kent\n LeoNerd: you read my mind
kent\n and now I mention that, were' metameta something
talexb Taking things a *little* too literally.
Su-Shee kent\n: it's a lesson to illustrate that color and paint are two different things...
LeoNerd Colour is very complex problem...
LeoNerd A lot of computer-type techies think it's just an RGB triplet, or maybe a triplet in some other space...
talexb And anyway, Google's just patented the primary colours in their logo. But mauve is still available. For good reason.
Su-Shee LeoNerd: luckily, I've learned "color" by actual "paint". ;)
kent\n Yeah, it matters about whats in the proximity of the bikeshed, perceptual colour :(
anno German uses the same word for color and paint, so we need to be taught the difference
anno same with shadow and shade
* LeoNerd takes anno out back to "teach him a lesson"
Su-Shee anno: excellent example. same with freedom and liberty.
* kent\n wonders if the bikeshed has to be colourblind safe
* talexb wonders what colour a duck blind is. Oh. Camoflage. Never mind.
Su-Shee camouflage. you've just introduced french into the discussion ;)
kent\n talexb: what colours are blind ducks painted though?
kent\n wait till we start painting our words, bikeshed synaesthesia sounds like a win.
Channel #perl
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Tagline Which paint do you want your bikeshed?

COBOL and Slices

Display

BinGOs it was someone asking for help with *python* man-in-the-middle script in a Perl channel.
BinGOs persistently
rcsheets why can't they figure out we're all about cobol in here? :(
BinGOs Nah, metallica
dngor rcsheets: They seem to be skipping the IDENTIFICATION DIVISON.
rcsheets dngor: kids these days, always skimming
pcard rcsheets: LOL
dngor I would give him the cliffs notes to the channel, but I'm from a very flat region.
pcard rcsheets: I remember someone once coming in to this channel asking how to port a Perl program into Cobol
rcsheets D:
Mimisbrunnr bwahahaha
Mimisbrunnr really?
pcard yes
rcsheets that's... that's... horrid
rcsheets maybe they were off their medication
pcard heh
Mimisbrunnr that's like asking to port a GUI to an adding machine
BinGOs I am so glad all the drugs, alcohol and therapy have managed to destroy all my memories of COBOL
rcsheets i need to implement a restful web app on my abacus
pcard Mimisbrunnr: lol
Mimisbrunnr rcsheets: it could be done - but we will need a lot of booze
Mimisbrunnr get me drunk enough, I'll program on anything
Mimisbrunnr including your cat
rcsheets Mimisbrunnr: can we do the booze part without the cobol/abacus/etc?
pcard BinGOs: indeed.... I did Cobol way back, and it's not something I care to go back to
BinGOs Though I do still shudder subconsciously whilst watching BSG
pcard BinGOs: the original or the newer one?
Mimisbrunnr rcsheets - deal
BinGOs Whenever they go on about the Gods of COBOL.
Mimisbrunnr Ya R’lyeh! COBOL fhtagn!
ZadYree Huh? what does @array[$arg] mean in p5?
pcard it's an array slice
pcard or a slice of pie
pcard one of those
rcsheets mmm
anno a warnable offence
rcsheets array slice, a la mode
pcard for pie?
pcard warn if pie; ?
ZadYree heh
pcard oh I see
pcard warn "Pie's done!" if defined $pie;
Mimisbrunnr pcard: never warn if pie; rejoice if pie
pcard ah
szr say "mmmmm, pie!"
rcsheets well, warning when it's done could make sense, inasmuch as you don't want to burn it
pcard rcsheets: yeah, like bell/beeper on an oven
rcsheets yes
rcsheets then the rejoice would be triggered when it's cool enough to eat
Mimisbrunnr sleep until ( $pie eq 'done' );
pcard it's still up to the baker to actually turn off the oven and remove the pie
Mimisbrunnr hrmm, wait no, I would never wake up
pcard Mimisbrunnr: there you go
pcard aww
pcard doh
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline COBOL and Slices

Who is Spartacus?

Display

Su-Shee (I'm not huskypaw. I swear... :)
dngor Me neither. I'm also not Spartacus.
* rindolf is Spartacus.
* rindolf just is.
rindolf I have E-mail again, too.
fizztpok I think you're a figment of my imagination.
rindolf fizztpok: I'm still Spartacus.
mst fizztpok: out of all the possible people that could exist you imagined *rindolf* ?!
rindolf mst: LOL.
rindolf mst++
stunix yay, I found my Perl-tshirt.
rindolf stunix: pics, please.
stunix #!/usr/bin/perl -w
stunix use strict;
rindolf stunix: don't flood.
stunix with the camel on the back.
stunix rindolf: I'm not flooding.
mst stunix: -w is out of date.
mst stunix: you need a new T-shirt :)
Khisanth fizztpok: now I have to go and kill you ...
anno t-shirt update
rindolf Khisanth: :-)
stunix mst: I don't use "-w" myself, but I use strict;
stunix :)
mst stunix: use strict; use warnings;
* rindolf is a figment of #perl's collective imagination.
Khisanth rindolf was too far away but you seem to be on the same continent at least
mst rindolf: now that I could believe.
fizztpok haha
fizztpok there's a name for this
fizztpok I saw a wikipedia article on it
fizztpok the belief that the universe is your mind's creation
mauke solipsism
anno can't be disproved
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Spartacus and T-shirts

VXZ Trolling on #perl

Display

VXZ Greeting all. How do I get this script working with mirc? I want it to take over the network and serve warez. I found it in some random dark corner of the web from 1998 and I don't want to learn perl to fix it. Also, why aren't my php regexes working on html? Oh crap my parents are home.
Altreus :3
Altreus you've been here before, I can tell
f00li5h VXZ: I want to ban you, but it's too grand a troll ... i have to admire it for a time
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline VXZ Trolling on #perl

The Evil Overlords of #perl

Display

nanonyme bamccaig_, yeah. Then you can look at Try::Tiny like preaction said and treat DBI's deaths as exceptions. Or use eval {}. preaction said Try::Tiny is cleaner and I guess I'm gonna trust him on that.
preaction HA HA HA THAT WAS YOUR FIRST MISTAKE!
nanonyme ;)
nanonyme preaction, the second is not noticing you completely rewrite Try::Tiny so my computer blows up? :P
preaction nanonyme: no, it's letting me build my atomic supermen so that i can win at basketball against the jesters of dunk, the Harlem Globetrotters
preaction i am no comic-book supervillian, my plans are even more convoluted! that means they're better and are sure to work! like George Clooney in Ocean's Eleven
* apeiron distributes copies of the evil overlord list
preaction what? where am i on this list? I demand a reissue!
preaction oh, wait, here i am. in the footnote "slightly less-evil overlords".
nanonyme preaction, underlords? :p
preaction #lessambitiousperlprogrammers
rindolf wonderlords.
pkrumins press button. get perl.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline The evil overlords of #perl

Perl Ninjas, Pirates and Zombies

Display

alyx /w/w 55
alyx ..fail
* apeiron gives alyx an award for failing that so much
alyx \o/
* alyx hangs it up in the almighty fail closet
rindolf alyx: :-)
alyx rindolf: :D
Su-Shee 55 chat windows are too much. ;)
Botje amen!
Botje I keep my irssi trimmed to < 30
Su-Shee I have 3. ;)
alyx Botje: o_o
alyx I have 56 windows atm, before I cleaned up a bit, I was at ~150. ._.
woldrich One friend in each window, and you have 56 times more friends than me.
Su-Shee bah. I like to have real conversations and to really follow a handful of channels and that's it..
rindolf alyx: wow.
perlsyntax Is there away i can look up my modules with cpan that i have installed?
perlsyntax if i am right.
Su-Shee wow. facebook has a chat too.
DrForr perldoc -q installed
rindolf Su-Shee: you can use a Jabber client for that.
rindolf DrForr++
* pragma_ gets annoyed when he exceeds 19 windows.
rindolf We should create a #perl <-> StackOverflowish interface.
Su-Shee after gotten angry, I don't use my jabber stuff anymore as well ;)
apeiron rindolf, Feel free to make a shitoverflow interface. Just don't put it here.
rindolf apeiron: :-)
apeiron no, not :-)
apeiron more like /ban *!*@*
Su-Shee who needs all those chats...
apeiron People with very empty lives.
Su-Shee well it fills empty windows.. ;)
Su-Shee or, there's recently chat rockstars and chat ninjas.. ;)
Botje but you don't /see/ chat ninjas!
Su-Shee that's why I have so few channels.. no ninja chatting with me..
DrForr Not that you *know* of.
Botje http://www.nichtlustig.de/toondb/100701.html # relevant
candide Title of Botje's link: NICHTLUSTIG
Su-Shee damn. what if a ninja is asking me out and I don't get it because it's an invisible conversation?
Su-Shee Botje: harhar ;)
Botje Su-Shee: if dinner suddenly appears you just married a ninja
Su-Shee in a secret, hidden ceremony?
Su-Shee Botje: was I there? how was I? ;)
pragma_ Su-Shee: your inner ninja will detect it and go on the date, if you have one.
Su-Shee pragma_: ah. interesting. so I'll find myself suddenly in some ninja-restaurant and don't remember how I got there?
Caelum DrForr: mintty seems nice
Caelum DrForr: there's also puttycyg
DrForr It is, but 3 days ina row I've hit that same key combo, and I can't reset it in the dialog box.
pragma_ Su-Shee: no, your ninja will be there while your you remains oblivious
rindolf Ninjas. :-)
pragma_ This is why ninjas engage in rigorous 24/7 training of their ninjistu; so that they may be more in touch with their inner ninjas and be more aware of what it is doing.
Su-Shee pragma_: so I stay an idiot no matter what. ;)
pragma_ your idiot remains an idiot forever, but you can train your non-idiot to overpower your idiot.
DrForr But... shouldn't your inner ninja be hidden?
Caelum DrForr: KiTTy also has the PuttyCyg patch, and only needs the cthelper.exe from PuttyCyg
pragma_ When you have attained true enlightenment of the ninja, then you too will become like the hidden tiger and will enjoy the pleasures of the crouching dragon.
DrForr www.askainnerninja.com
Su-Shee I better not google pleasures of the crouching dragon..
Su-Shee DrForr: No match for "ASKAINNERNINJA.COM".
Su-Shee DrForr: go ahead ;)
mst whould be ask -an- inner ninja.
Su-Shee also no match ;)
Su-Shee *lol* askdrninja.com is taken ;)
Botje there's also drmcninja
Su-Shee well we could always chose to go down the rockstar path...
Su-Shee choose.
rindolf We should become Perl pirates. Arrrrrrrrrr!
* alyx hands rindolf an eyepatch
rindolf Unleash your inner bucaneer.
rindolf "I'm Guybrush Threepwood. Mighty Pirate."
apeiron Yeah, I've been doing that for ages.
Su-Shee .oO(johnny depp.. hm.. ;)
rindolf And Keira Knightly.
woldrich What does '.oO' mean?
rindolf woldrich: saying something.
rindolf Like a talk balloon.
rindolf Maybe a thought balloon?
pragma_ . o ( This is a thought balloon. )
woldrich oh. I'm too old for this shit
rindolf woldrich: it doesn't matter as long as you're young at heart.
rindolf And there are no young Perl programmers. ;-)
* pragma_ prefers his heart matured and fortified.
rindolf As "Perl is dead."
* Caelum prefers his hearts barbecued
rindolf Well, that wasn't very funny.
Su-Shee I wouldn't really call mst "old" ;)
BinGOs zombie perl
rindolf Su-Shee: I know a Perl programmer who's now a university freshman.
* apeiron sends zombie kindergarteners after rindolf
Su-Shee well dr dobbs agrees.
rindolf Knew him since he was in Junior high.
rindolf apeiron: :-)
BinGOs perl eats your brains.
* rindolf trains the zombie kindergarteners to be mighty Perl zombie pirates!
pragma_ I've always been annoyed by the lack of zombie children running around in Left4Dead, et al.
rindolf mighty*
Botje pragma_: shooting kids is bad mmkay
pragma_ At least Dead Space 2 has mutant baby toddlers you can stomp like fattened mosquitos.
Khisanth but these would be dead kids
apeiron undead
apeiron very important distinction!
Khisanth hmm well really neither, just bags of disease
rindolf Perl vampires!
* pragma_ would rather be a werewolf.
apeiron Khisanth, every source I've read says zombies are undead. so there.
* rindolf shoots pragma_ with the silver bullet.
Khisanth the l4d ones aren't really zombies :)
Botje they're more like 28 days later-style zombies
apeiron eh, modern games get everything wrong.
woldrich That girl in Resident Evil is cute.
* Su-Shee recommends "the walking dead"
pragma_ L4D, Resident Evil, Dead Space -- these are all "zombies" despite however they came to be such!
Botje yes, walking dead is <3
Caelum I haven't seen the new resident evil movie yet, was it good?
woldrich oh yes
Botje it had milla shooting stuff
Botje what more do you want?
pragma_ I was thinking of the Resident Evil 5 video game actually
Khisanth Botje: multiple millas shooting stuff?
pragma_ System Shock
apeiron plot. thought-provoking themes.
woldrich khisanth++
Botje pragma_++ # yes!
pragma_ System Shock 2
Botje my first-born for a system shock movie
Botje (done decently, that is)
* f00li5h nuzzles Botje
Su-Shee Botje: since when do you have a firstborn?
Botje aagh! zomb.. oh. hi kit!
Botje Su-Shee: i will have!
Khisanth Botje: probably won't be done nicely :P
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Perl Ninjas, Pirates and Zombies

Digits in Variable Names

Display

jim which perldoc for doin stuff with arrays? want to copy all but first of one array to another
DrForr perldoc perldsc
DrForr Or just (undef,@new) = @old;
rindolf Also $old[1..$#old]
DrForr Of course TIMTOWTDI...
rindolf Well, @old[1..$#old]
rindolf I think in perl 6 you can do @old[1..*-1]
jim @a2 = @a1[1..$#a1]?
jim not perl6in yet
rindolf jim: yes, but with different names.
rindolf jim: else you want an array or a hash of arrays.
rindolf perlbot: varvarname
perlbot rindolf: Why it's stupid to `use a variable as a variable name' - http://perl.plover.com/varvarname.html
jim wait, are you sure mine is wrong?
rindolf jim: it's not wrong per-ce, just a red flag.
jim what's the flag?
rindolf jim: varvarname.
jim note I said @a->2<- = ...
rindolf jim: well, it's like doing my ($x1,$x2,$x3,$x4...) - better use an array.
rindolf Assuming you want that.
rindolf Yes, what is the difference between @a2 and @a1? What is their significance?
jim @a1 is a complete list of phone numbers, @a2 is a list of phone numbers not yet uploaded to the phone
thrig @phone_numbers!
jim it's like that in the code
thrig oh, okay
jim I'm just not typin that crap into the irc window as irc isn't the most wonderful medium for posting code
jim believe me, my variable names from 20 years ago tell me what they are for
thrig var_name_from_20_years_ago_you_re_still_not_taking_out_the_damn_trash
jim I'm not necessarily at liberty to specify exactly what I'm doing
jim even tho I did so in this case
thrig otherwise the mafia arranges a boaking accident?
mfontani worse; nobody expects the spanish inquisition!
rindolf I'm going crazy without buubot.
rindolf Where is he and buu?
jim well the way you're acting doesn't exactly induce the greatest amount of openness
rindolf jim: I apologise.
rindolf jim: we may have erred in this.
jim ohman, buubot is gone>?
rindolf jim: yes!
rindolf jim: for the time being.
rindolf Don't know where buu is.
jim that's been one useful bot
mfontani eval: @a=1..4; (undef,@b)=@a; \@b
perlbot mfontani: [2,3,4]
DrForr jim: You've got several answers already. Do they not satisfy?
rindolf perlbot: define boaking
perlbot rindolf: No factoid found. Did you mean one of these: [debian perldoc] [define vrby : vrby]
rindolf jim: I think simcop has put the buubot code on github or something like that.
rindolf Well, good night @everyone.
rindolf An array .
jim DrForr: they do... it's all this stuff afterwards that has me closing, "spanish inquisition", "mafia breakaleg"... it's just unnecessary
jim rindolf: thanks
rindolf jim: well, we sometimes enjoy having fun.
DrForr Shrug. You're the one that brought up "may not be at liberty..."
rindolf jim: seems like thrig's main function, aside from being the benevolent dictator of #perl, is to interject short jokes.
thrig I make jokes about tall people, too
simcop2387 rindolf: yea i have
rindolf thrig: :-)
simcop2387 perlbot: source
perlbot simcop2387: check out my insides (i'm based off buubot, so ask him for his source if you really want to start); http://github.com/simcop2387/perlbuut/ or go to http://github.com/simcop2387/buubot/
rindolf We can have notbuubot or buubot2 or something.
rindolf Well, buubot2 is varvarname.
rindolf ;-)
thrig it's not going to be @buubot
rindolf thrig: LOL.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Digits in Variable Names

When to use XML and Popcorn?

Display

designerjean http://scsys.co.uk:8002/87521
designerjean i know i'm not supposed to be using XML::Simple
designerjean but it's only one statement in the program
rindolf designerjean: is it causing problems?
mst yes, and it's the one that makes the $config you can't work out how to use
designerjean maybe
rindolf mst: :-)
mst your exact problem is "unable to use the results of XML::Simple"
mst because you're stupid and XML::Simple is shit
mst please switch to XML::Twig
designerjean ok thanks
dhoss people still use xml?
rindolf dhoss: it's a dirty job, but it pays.
dhoss i guess there's that
designerjean another case of stupid youth
dhoss designerjean: how old are you
rindolf dhoss: well, I'm using XML for some stuff willingly.
rindolf dhoss: JSON wouldn't have been usable.
dhoss rindolf: i guess that's a legit reason
rindolf Because I use them for text and stuff like that.
rindolf And it's hard to do something like <p>Hello <b>dhoss</b>!</p> in JSON.
rokoteko I think its mainly amongst web programmers where JSON is appreciated the most.
rindolf rokoteko: JSON has many valid uses.
DuClare XML has none
LeoNerd XML is for putting attribute markup within a stream of text.
dhoss rindolf: yea i can see that. json is more useful in a cross language barrier bit where markup isn't needed
LeoNerd (mostly because it came out of SGML)
rindolf DuClare: not true.
rokoteko XML is very widely used. that's like saying "I dont need to know Java, because the language sucks" ..
Su-Shee rindolf: you're mixing semantics with style here anyways. that would be bad xml.
rindolf Su-Shee: I was giving an illustrative example.
Su-Shee rindolf: then give a proper one. that was exactly how NOT to XML.
rindolf Su-Shee: besides , I think that <b> has some valid, semantic meaning.
rindolf And it's also shorter than <strong></strong>
rindolf Su-Shee: ok.
Su-Shee rindolf: no. bold doesn't mean "be bold and courageous here". it means "print this shit in bold typeface"
rindolf <p>Hello <name>Su-Shee</name>!</p>
rindolf XML is useful for wrapping and annotating text.
Dorward XML is only useful for wrapping and annotating text if you use a properly designed application of XML and everyone reading the document agrees on what the meaning is.
rokoteko XTML vs XDML could derive from XML. (text and data respectively). then of course you should be able to embed XDML in XTML.
rokoteko oh wait. Im thinkin aloud.
rindolf rokoteko: I've recently played with an XML-specific compression tool.
rindolf rokoteko: it achieved better compression than xz -9 --extreme but OTOH mishandled some «"» not inside attributes - converting them to &quot;
rokoteko rindolf: what requirements are you trying to meet by compressing xml?
PerlJam smaller XML docs :)
rindolf rokoteko: well, to reduce the size.
rokoteko well, doh. but why?
rindolf rokoteko: like over the Net, etc.
rindolf rokoteko: it's like gzip compression/decompression.
rokoteko rindolf: I yet fail to see the point. :(
rindolf Only domain-specific.
rokoteko why?
rindolf And if you have a lot of it it occupies less on the hard disk.
rokoteko Ah. you have like SHITLOADS of XML ?
rindolf It could happen.
rindolf Java...
PerlJam anyone who deals with XML probably has that much ;)
rokoteko Well, disk is pretty cheap.
rindolf I don't have too much XML.
rindolf Well, maybe a lot of XHTML.
rokoteko I was just curious about rindolf's use case.
rokoteko I was afraid that he was storing some binary data in XML. :)
mst I think he was just experimenting with technology
rindolf Yes, I probably have more disk wasted on .mp3's and .flv's.
rindolf rokoteko: I have some interest in compression methods.
rindolf rokoteko: back from high school.
rokoteko rindolf: :)
Su-Shee if you're the company who's transferring 120 years of documents of a car company into something flexible - THEN you have a shitload of XML.
rindolf There have been some recent advancements.
rokoteko So just out of curiousity, that's fine with me. :) Im just nosy sometimes.
rindolf rokoteko: I think the wikipedia XML dump is pretty large.
mst I find it's usually safe to assume that whatver rindolf's doing, there isn't a good reason for it.
rindolf rokoteko: there was some stuff about processing it quickly using Perl, etc.
rindolf mst: :-)
rindolf mst++ # Nice burn.
Su-Shee popcorn anyone? ;)
rindolf mst: but it has a huge grain of truth in it I admit.
rindolf Su-Shee: microwave popcorn?
Su-Shee I don't have a microwave and I was being sarcastic...
Su-Shee I need a smiley for that.
rindolf Su-Shee: ah.
Su-Shee rindolf-shaped, obviously.
rindolf Su-Shee: yes, I was playing along.
petn-randall why not an XML-conform </sarcasm> ?
* rindolf prepares some popcorn and shares it with Su-Shee using the Popcorn-over-IRC protocol.
DrForr What's this about burnt popcorn?
rindolf Popcorn-over-IRC also preserves the butter taste.
burnedcelery you're getting my keyboard all greasy
apeiron ew, butter
rindolf And it also supports multicasting popcorn.
PerlJam butter++
PerlJam though not so much butter that it makest he popcorn soggy. I hate that.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline XML and Popcorn

The Ultimate Goal of One's Programming

Display

rp21 i think i'm too critical to be a programmer ...
rindolf rp21: do you mean you're too perfectionist?
Su-Shee yeah sure. there's something like "too good code".
rindolf Su-Shee: print "Hello World!\n"; - that's good code.
rindolf Or maybe say "Hello World!";
rindolf Can't be improved.
rp21 hey, why did my nick change?
rp2 yes it may be perfectionism
rindolf rp2: ah, sucks.
rp2 eg i want to get all columns from a database table in Perl
rp2 now my problem is that i want to write code that works wuith a variety of databases and both on windows and linux
rp2 it seems that as soon as i have found a way to overcome a particular restriction, i mentally add another and spend my time trying to overcome that too, sometimes losing track of the reason i started the script
rindolf rp2: heh.
rp2 if i were a better programmer i'd get through the hurdles quicker and end up with solvesworldhunger.pl
rp2 except that i'd probably finish Perl 7 to write it in first
rindolf rp2: well, some of my programs outgrow their original purpose too.
rindolf rp2: :-D
rp2 except that it'd never get finished because i'd first fix the OSes it's supposed to run on,
rp2 etc etc
rp2 raaaah!
rindolf rp2: you should hire Chuck Norris.
rp2 yes
rindolf Chuck Norris can end world hunger, but he thinks that hungry people make humanity a more challenging adversary.
rindolf If everyone had enough to eat, it would be too easy for him.
rindolf ;-)
mino Chuck Norris also writes understandable perl code... *scnr*
rindolf mino: LOL.
rindolf mino: Chuck Norris can read Perl code that was RSA encrypted.
mino rindolf: is there any difference to unencrypted one? :P
rindolf mino: not to Chuck.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Solving World Hunger using Perl

CPAN Module Namer in Distress

Display

LeoNerd Su-Shee: http://scsys.co.uk:8002/91935 <== see if that runs
LeoNerd That's my "static" demo
rindolf LeoNerd: what is Tickit?
LeoNerd Heh...
LeoNerd Terminal Interface Construction KIT
Su-Shee rindolf: a terminal application's widget set
LeoNerd Think "GTK" for terminals
rindolf Su-Shee: ah.
rindolf LeoNerd: like Curses::UI?
rindolf Only better, perhaps?
LeoNerd Sortof, only not using Curses. :)
rindolf LeoNerd: ah.
Su-Shee ok, first I need food.
rindolf Interesting.
LeoNerd Also, I'm not that familiar with Curses::UI but I didn't think it was widget-based..?
Su-Shee LeoNerd: I have this example open.
rindolf I think Tickit is not too good a name either.
LeoNerd Well. *shrug*
* rindolf emails some Shawarma to Su-Shee.
Su-Shee rindolf: did we ask to judge the name? ;)
LeoNerd rindolf: If you want to judge all my naming you can respond to all my blog posts tagged "module naming"
rindolf Make sure you uncompress it or you won't be able to eat it. :-)
LeoNerd And then if people complain I'll send them your way
rindolf LeoNerd: ah, my blogs aggregator is off.
LeoNerd http://leonerds-code.blogspot.com/search/label/module%20naming
rindolf LeoNerd: so we can form the "People unhappy with LeoNerd's names support group"?
LeoNerd You can if you like.. I'm not. :)
rindolf "Hi! My name is rindolf and I think LeoNerd picks up awful names for his modules." "Hello rindolf! We all love you!"
rindolf LOL.
Su-Shee JESUS WHO CARES HOW A WIDGET SET IS CALLED?!
LeoNerd Indeed..
Su-Shee LeoNerd: name the next one pink fluffy bunny.
rindolf Su-Shee: THE NAME IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING!111
LeoNerd Hell, we have a popular OO framework named after a large Swedish animal with antlers on
rindolf Would you use Linux if it was called 386BSD?
rindolf OK, it could be much worse.
Su-Shee LeoNerd: well so the name of a Moose based (there already was a Moose before Perl's Moose by Smalltalk, btw..) widget set will be Ikea.
* __sri only uses operating systems that have been named after big cats
rindolf Su-Shee: that may infringe on a trademark.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline What's in a name?

How Much Infinity do you need?

Display

Altreus rindolf: you can make a processor in minecraft yes
rindolf Altreus: ah, OK.
Altreus a computer in a computer
rindolf Let's write a Perl->Mincraft compiler.
Altreus very meta
rindolf Implementing a Turing complete interpreter inside a VM is not hard.
rindolf vi keystrokes (not vimscript) are also Turing complete.
rindolf As is the Game of Life and infinite Minesweeper
jettero rindolf: I can almost imagine GoL, but how is minesweeper going to be turing complete?
Altreus nuts
Altreus that always worked for me
Altreus maybe you have to log in at least once
woldrich bah
rindolf jettero: http://web.mat.bham.ac.uk/R.W.Kaye/minesw/
rindolf jettero: I have not read the paper.
rindolf jettero: of course, true Turing completeness is only possible with infinite memory.
LeoNerd Ah OK
* f00li5h hands rindolf an infinite hotel, and books every even room
rindolf f00li5h: :-)
* rindolf books every odd room that is divided by three.
rindolf f00li5h: is it א_0, א_1 or something more infinite?
f00li5h it's as infinite as it can be!
rindolf f00li5h: ah, good.
rindolf f00li5h: then I can book room pi.
rindolf Or sqrt(2).
f00li5h you sure can.
rindolf Nice.
f00li5h but you might like something a little more spacious
rindolf Ah.
f00li5h like the rooms between 1 and 2
rindolf Which room do you recommend?
rindolf Ah.
j_wright what about sqrt(-1)?
f00li5h plenty of space there
f00li5h j_wright: that room's popular, i'd imagine it's booked
f00li5h the biggest problem is aloting extensions on the room phones
Altreus my infinite hotel's rooms have two numbers each, being a point on the complex plane
Altreus it increases address lookup time
Altreus also the hotel happens to be all one floor so that helps
j_wright so they get two sets of addresses?
j_wright polar too
f00li5h take the ⧜th left, and then head down ∞th right
Altreus no just one
Altreus each room is unique
j_wright or turn n degrees and go m forward
Altreus oh yes I suppose you could map their addresses to a new coordinate space but that's true of any plane with a landmark
Altreus the car park is at 0,i fyi
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline The Inifinite Hotel

Perl Shrinks

Display

Su-Shee mst: would you like to talk about your problems now too? PerlJam? How's your marriage? Anyone recently went alcoholic? Also, would you all like to know how about my father? ;)
mauke use less qw(acid);
* PerlJam hugs Su-Shee ... a little too tightly.
tm604 less acid | more perl
Su-Shee PerlJam: for sarcasm? ;) that's new :)
PerlJam Su-Shee: It's the #perl6 in me. ETOOMANYHUGS :)
Su-Shee PerlJam: HARHAR :)
rindolf Su-Shee: heh.
rindolf Su-Shee++ # good burn.
rindolf Su-Shrink.
rindolf Su-Shee: your nick has multiple hidden meanings.
rindolf Su-Shee: will you sell it for 3 oz. of gold?
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Su-Shrink

How Can I Switch off the T.V. - #perl style

Display

(This bit was posted anonymously to a pastebot on 23 March, 2011. It is placed here for posterity after some editing.)

Question: how can I switch off my TV?

What he wants to hear? For example: Locate on/off button your TV remote a press it. The button is usually red and located at the topmost line on the remote.

The #perl expert's answer: First, what do you mean with "switch off"? Define it first. Nopaste your TV, TV remote and the living room too.

After a nopaste:

Your room is ugly. And the TV looks terrible. Use Mr. Clean on the screen and clean your living room first. Use three cleaning mops instead of two. Use HDMI and never use scart (?) connectors, unless you really want to. Your TV remote has unreadable buttons, clean up first. You're a beginner, so read:

IRC guest: But, i don't want be a TV expert.

Answer: Why do you want to switch the TV on then?!

Author Anonymous
Work Pastebin Paste

Cats in Soviet Russia

Display

rindolf Mithaldu: I think most contemporary T.V. kinda sucks.
rindolf Mithaldu: it seems very phony.
Mithaldu rindolf: same, i haven't actually switched on my tv in five years
rindolf I prefer a YouTube video of a kitten riding on a turtle.
rindolf Mithaldu: :-)
Mithaldu :D
rindolf Mithaldu: yes.
rindolf Mithaldu: there is one, BTW.
Mithaldu oh i do not doubt that
rindolf Don't know if it's authentic.
rindolf I saw a friendly cat today, and he purred after I scratched his head.
rindolf I like Friendly cats.
rindolf I think lolcats are very subversive.
rindolf Or were.
rindolf "Ceiling cat is watching you"
Mithaldu cats are the definition of subversive
Mithaldu they adopt you
rindolf Mithaldu: heh.
rindolf In Soviet Russia, cats own you!
rindolf In Soviet Russia, cats are your master!
rindolf Well, in Soviet Russia and everywhere.
kent\n rindolf: you got it backwards.
kent\n In soviet russia, cats are actually your pets.
Mithaldu hahaha
rindolf kent\n: heh.
rindolf kent\n++
rindolf I feel better now.
rindolf Empowered but calm.
rindolf Thanks to the cats jokes.
Mithaldu world healing by cat jokes
rindolf Hopefully, I'll sleep well tonight.
kent\n Next on the agenda. DICK JOKES!
rindolf Mithaldu: cats are good for healing I think.
rindolf kent\n: NO!!!!!
kent\n ( don't worry, this won't take long )
Mithaldu yes, as long as you do not own cables
Mithaldu kent\n: you mean it won't BE very long
Mithaldu hurr hurr
rindolf kent\n: I've got 99 problems but kent\n ain't one.
kent\n ;)
Channel #perl-cats
Network Freenode
Tagline Cats in Soviet Russia

Violent Cats and Astrology

Display

* f00li5h paws at apeiron
* WinstonSmith hisses at f00li5h
* f00li5h pounces on that WinstonSmith critter
* WinstonSmith scratches that f00li5h and hides under the sofa
* Su-Shee gets a bucket of cold water.
* WinstonSmith meows at f00li5h quickly before Su-Shee comes with that water
* Khisanth blasts WinstonSmith with a firehose
WinstonSmith garbl grbl garblll
* apeiron shakes fist at 'variable length lookbehind not supported'
* apeiron also shakes fist at $CLIENT speccing against a regex a stupid jquery dev wrote instead of the well-tested module
Khisanth you can change it into (?: | | | ) in at least some cases
* WinstonSmith jumps on top of the wardrobe, dries himself and glares menacingly at Khisanth
apeiron THIS IS WHY WE USE THE MODULES, DAMNIT, BECAUSE APEIRON SUCKS AT REGEX
apeiron THIS IS ALSO WHY APEIRON SUCKS AT REGEX
LeoNerd IS THIS WHY WE ARE SHOUTING?
* Khisanth grabs an apeiron and throws it at WinstonSmith
apeiron I get shouty when $CLIENTs spec stupidity.
apeiron @CLIENT? $CLIENTs?
Khisanth got shout at client then :)
* WinstonSmith nuzzles apeiron to calm him down
apeiron WinstonSmith, that doesn't remove the stupidity from the spec.=\
WinstonSmith apeiron, maybe the stupidity is in $CLIENT ?
apeiron yes, I know that.
* WinstonSmith considers the nuzzling having effect - he disabled the caps key ; -)
* apeiron just shouts into loudbot
rindolf Cat violence!
rindolf Felix Felini Lupus est!
WinstonSmith felix perlus aggressivus!
rindolf WinstonSmith: Latin!
WinstonSmith rindolf, pseudo!
rindolf WinstonSmith: yes, true. Mock-Latin.
WinstonSmith ah so you have pseudo in english?
rindolf How do you say "A cat to a cat is a wolf" in Latin?
rindolf WinstonSmith: there is pseudo there.
SpiceWork leo ripanus !
rindolf SpiceWork: what does that mean?
rindolf Leo is lion, right?
WinstonSmith leo is the king
SpiceWork no idea. a wine I loved, but year that followed sucked.
rindolf LeoNerd.
ne2k leonidas
SpiceWork *the year that
LeoNerd Correct
rindolf /nick TauNerd
rindolf /nick TaurusNerd
SpiceWork european wine quality varies too much :\
LeoNerd Hehe.. I could go through all the zodiac signs :)
LeoNerd /nick CapricornNerd
apeiron LeoNerd, /nick FishNerd?
apeiron Somehow that doesn't have the same ring to it...
LeoNerd Pices surely?
apeiron Pisces.
LeoNerd Er, yes.. them :)
rindolf I don't believe in Astrology because I'm a Taurus and Tauri never believe in Astrology.
rindolf </old-joke>
Simplicity ...Lol.
* Su-Shee is a Leo-Shee.
rindolf Su-Shee: ah, you're a Leo too?
Simplicity I don't exactly /follow/ Astrology, but I believe some horoscopes hit spot on.
apeiron They're vague enough to apply to anyone.
rindolf Simplicity: there was something about a survey where people read the Astrological forecast either before or after the week, and those that read it aferwards said it did not happen to them.
Su-Shee well I choose only the good one and manipulate the day accordingly ;)
Simplicity Heh
WinstonSmith Su-Shee++
SpiceWork I was really dissapointed on how superstitious japanese people are at first. then I stopped idiolzing them :p
Su-Shee but I'm a firm believer in compenent manipulation anyways ;)
Simplicity apeiron: I didn't want to go there as to not offend any possible believers.
LeoNerd I find them interesting. Usually they're completely off the mark, but just occasionally they give me something interesting to think about, something to focus my mind on.. reminding me something I sortof knew anyway
apeiron Simplicity, If people can't tolerate the truth, they shouldn't be on the internet. :)
WinstonSmith apeiron, omg there is truth on the internetz?
apeiron yes!
Simplicity WinstonSmith: Everything you read on the Internet is true!
* WinstonSmith double-facepalms
WinstonSmith i knew all that stuff about the lizard people could'nt be a lie
* WinstonSmith notches the paranoia up
Simplicity WinstonSmith: The only "lizard people" I have ever heard about is the Illuminati.
WinstonSmith Simplicity, well Cheney was on of them ;-)
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Nobody heard of Perlian cats

Paid version of CPAN

Display

elb0w` Let’s start a paid version of cpan
elb0w` same exact modules
elb0w` but charge for them
elb0w` add Pro:: namespace
apeiron no, Enterprise::
elb0w` haha yes
jdv79 the longer the better
mauke 402 Payment required
elb0w` more offical
winmutt Drmauke
DrForr That site just sets off alarm bells here.
rindolf CPAY
winmutt the fact that any code is obfuscated greately bring into question the quality of it
winmutt base64 or otherwise
elb0w` the funny thing is that if this was real I bet some firms would use it
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline There's no such thing as a free download.

Whitespace in Python

Display

sizz whitespace in python is not a problem, just lay out all the whitespace first, then add the code around it
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Whitespace in Python

Interesting vs. Successful

Display

There's a negative correlation between “interesting” and “successful”.

Author Anno on Freenode's #perl

Sweat

Display

cl0ud glorious meeting this morning
rindolf cl0ud: hi.
* rindolf cl0ud
* cl0ud rindolf
rindolf cl0ud: sup?
cl0ud chillin
rindolf cl0ud: yes, it is chilly here.
* rindolf moves his services to the cl0ud
cl0ud we live in a cloud world
railbait_lite So, loudbot has 10k tweets
railbait_lite Pratty sweat
rindolf railbait_lite: sweet?
railbait_lite Yeah
rindolf Gotta make you sweat.
railbait_lite haha
railbait_lite Yeah meant to make it sound weird
railbait_lite Thus the "pretty" misspelling as well
rindolf Sweat Beat.
rindolf Like Lemon Demon.
railbait_lite haha
rindolf loudbot: TWITTER ALL THE WAY UP!
loudbot rindolf: GOOGLE BROKE YOUTUBE, EVERYONE REJOICE
Channel #perlcafe
Network Freenode
Tagline Sweat

Round Numbers

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hemanth meow!
rindolf hemanth: meow.
rindolf hemanth: still no IRC at work?
hemanth nope :/
rindolf hemanth: did you talk with the sys-admins?
hemanth rindolf: it seems more like freenode have blocked the IP
hemanth hang on
hemanth "You are banned from this server- Temporary K-line 6000 min. - Please do not harass users on freenode. If in error, please contact mailto:kline@freenode.net. Thanks! (2011/11/1 06.24)"
rindolf hemanth: ah.
simcop2387 hemanth: what did you do?
LeoNerd 6000 minutes. 100 hours.
LeoNerd 4 days 4 hours. A weird number
simcop2387 farnsworth: 6000 minutes -> days
farnsworth simcop2387: (25/6 /* apx (4.16666666666666) */)
hemanth heh heh
simcop2387 LeoNerd: i think it was entirely because 100 hours is a "round number"
Altreus 0, 6, 8, 9 are round numbers
Altreus The rest are a bit pointy
Altreus maybe sometimes a 3 depending on font
Altreus but it still has a pointy bit
rindolf Altreus: heh.
rindolf Altreus: actually, they are round digits.
Altreus bah, you win
simcop2387 1 isn't round
Channel #perl-cats
Network Freenode
Tagline Round Numbers

Negative Lookbehinds

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GordonFreeman hi
rindolf Hi GordonFreeman
GordonFreeman grep -Po '(?<=<a )(?<! href=)(?<= href=["]*)[^">]+' <<< '<a gfasg href=asdf>'
GordonFreeman grep: lookbehind assertion is not fixed length
rindolf GordonFreeman: grep is PCRE - it's not Perl.
rindolf perlbot: pcre
Altreus GordonFreeman: don't use regex for HTML
perlbot rindolf: PCRE is not Perl. It lacks several features of Perl regexes. Don't bother asking for help with a PCRE pattern in a Perl channel as the answers will not be relevant. Try #regex, or the channel for your language. See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCRE#Differences_from_Perl and LPBD.
GordonFreeman but this should work i think.
mauke no, it shouldn't
GordonFreeman though it fails at the second lookbehind ...
mauke no, it doesn't
GordonFreeman and fails at "* too
GordonFreeman (grep -Po '<a +.* +href="*[^" >]+' | grep -Po '(?=<a ).*' | grep -Po '(?<= href=)["]*[^" >]+') <<< '<a gfasg href=asdf><a fgfgg="hi> " href="link" >'
GordonFreeman this works.
mauke GordonFreeman: dude.
anno don't paste!
GordonFreeman hi mauke
apeiron where's mauke's car?
rindolf apeiron: :-)
mauke it's a cdr
Altreus I watched that the other day
rindolf pkrumins: what's up?
Altreus I don't really know why
mauke GordonFreeman: go to a channel where that is on-topic
GordonFreeman mauke<< like?
mauke no idea
Altreus where on earth is parsing HTML with regexes on topic?
GordonFreeman aham ok
Altreus except ##php lolol
GordonFreeman well i think one can see its logical and it works like this
rindolf GordonFreeman: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1732348/regex-match-open-tags-except-xhtml-self-contained-tags/1732454#1732454
shorten rindolf's url is at http://xrl.us/bf4jh6
apeiron GordonFreeman, also, -P isn't perl.
thrig Altreus: some special level of hell, between the angry ghosts and the hungry ghosts
rindolf perlbot: html
apeiron the grep docs lie to you.
perlbot rindolf: Don't parse or modify html with regular expressions! See one of HTML::Parser's subclasses: HTML::TokeParser, HTML::TokeParser::Simple, HTML::TreeBuilder(::Xpath)?, HTML::TableExtract etc. If your response begins "that's overkill. i only want to..." you are wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chomsky_hierarchy and http://xrl.us/bf4jh6 for why not to use regex on HTML
LeoNerd Altreus: Why, surely in #html-parsing-by-regexp
Altreus if you want perl regex use ack
Altreus surely
rindolf LeoNerd: sounds like programmers' hell.
anno perl regex doesn't support variable-length lookbehind either
Altreus apeiron: actually it says it's highly experimental and hence not working
Altreus it could well be Perl and not PCRE when finished :)
Altreus not that "perl regex" is a defined term, the speed Perl is moving
yrlnry That's why you should never use Perl's builtin regexes. Just write your own package, it's sure to be more reliable.
rindolf yrlnry: :-)
talexb Heh.
LeoNerd use re::engine::vim;
rindolf yrlnry++
Altreus LeoNerd: is it core?
yrlnry HOP has a nice implementation. It works by generating a list of every string matched by the regex, and looking to see if your target string is in the list.
LeoNerd I can't help thinking that may not be optimal in terms of CPU or memory usage
talexb yrlnry, no doubt they have a Cray working on generating the list ..
yrlnry LeoNerd: Depends; unlike Perl regexes, it has no trouble handling languages higher up the Chomsky hierarchy
yrlnry It is guaranteed to return the right answer for any recursive language, and guaranteed to return correct 'matched' answers for any recursively enumerable language.
LeoNerd Ohsure...
LeoNerd In terms of CS guarantees it's very nice
yrlnry So if you are in a big hurry to get the wrong answer...
LeoNerd But I live in the practical pragmatic world
LeoNerd E.g. Parser::MGC is horribly slow at backtracking and whatnot, but I write parsers in it because those are still fast for "reasonably" sized inputs, parsers are fast to write, and I like having lots of side-effects and dynamic logic -in- Perl
Altreus Unfortunately my universe doesn't have infinite processing speeds and data storage
anno a universe with infinite processing speed would have processed you by now
Altreus and
Altreus would have processed my grandchildren too
yrlnry This algorithm doesn' t need infinite speed or storage.
yrlnry It works slowly, but finitely.
Altreus what
yrlnry The infinite list is lazily generated and you never have more than one of its elements in memory at any time.
rindolf yrlnry: is it sorted by length?
yrlnry You will learn this sort of technique after you have been programming in Perl for eight months or so.
Altreus how do you know when it doesn't match
Altreus yrlnry: :D
yrlnry rindolf: it is sorted by length, and lexicographically among strings of the same length.
rindolf yrlnry: ah.
yrlnry Of course, you cannot do the length-sorting thing for arbitrary languages, but for regex languages there is no trouble.
yrlnry http://hop.perl.plover.com/book/pdf/06InfiniteStreams.pdf
LeoNerd Eh..
LeoNerd I dunno. I just dislike purely RE-based parsing
LeoNerd I much prefer code doing it
GordonFreeman why can't perl regexp do variable length lookbehind matching?
Altreus See originally I ignored you because it sounded like you were talking shit
LeoNerd Limit of the implementation
Altreus mainly because it is possible to construct a regex with an infinite range that nevertheless won't match a particular string
anno GordonFreeman: who knows? looks like it's hard to implement with the given engine
mauke GordonFreeman: unclear semantics and no one's bothered to write the code
GordonFreeman i see
Altreus Plus, there's a fucking lot of unicode to create strings out of
LeoNerd It's not "hard" to implement. It's impossible given the algorithm being used
mauke LeoNerd: why impossible?
yrlnry LeoNerd: I don't think that's true. It could be done using a recursive call to the regex engine now that that is possible.
GordonFreeman but lookbehind is cool
LeoNerd Oooh.. yes.. I suppose it could do that now
GordonFreeman its like a reverse regexp that can be excluded
anno vim re's do it
LeoNerd vim uses a different type of engine
anno right
yrlnry Altreus: I was talking shit. After eight months you get a license to do that.
mauke really?
Altreus yrlnry: but there's a pdf
yrlnry where's a PDF?
Altreus 17:10 < yrlnry> http://hop.perl.plover.com/book/pdf/06InfiniteStreams.pdf
yrlnry Yes.
Altreus I didn't open it or anything
mauke no one opens pdfs
yrlnry PDFs are for cowards and Slavs.
Altreus but it lent enough credence to your words that I decided to believe your spurious claims
Altreus Actually someone did a test the other day
yrlnry Oh, does "talking shit" mean "making up nonsense"? Then I was not talking shit.
Altreus He linked someone to articles supporting his viewpoint and they changed their mind
yrlnry It is in section 6.5, "regex string generation".
Altreus but one of the articles was an argument against himself
Altreus Showing that it is enough to cite your sources to be believed; not many people will actually bother to check them
Altreus yrlnry: what do you normally think "talking shit" means?
Altreus are you confusing it with shooting the shit
yrlnry I'm not sure.
Altreus are you foreign
yrlnry Yes.
Altreus ok then
mauke hahaha
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Negative Lookbehind Regexes for matching HTML

Foreign Birds

Display

mocramis though i installed IPC::RUN, i still get the Can't locate from perl
Botje it's called IPC::Run, not IPC::RUN
rindolf mocramis: perl is case-sensitive.
mocramis arf ><
Altreus meow
DrForr *chirp*
Su-Shee tschilp in german, btw.
DrForr Could be handy when talking with foreign birds :)
Su-Shee DrForr: absolutely. also: a german dog barks "wau" and a cat meows "miau"
rindolf Su-Shee: German animals are true German patriots.
DrForr No relation to Miaowara Tomokato, I take it.
Su-Shee DrForr: no, although germany and japan of course had some relations ;)
Botje Su-Shee: oh. that explains 'dr waumiau'
Altreus foreign birds speak the same as local birds
Su-Shee Botje: what's that? ;)
Botje Su-Shee: german mash-up artist
Su-Shee Botje: now you know what his names means.
DrForr Altreus: Mine didn't :)
Altreus speaking a foreign language is culturally insensitive
DrForr (she grew up speaking English and Japanese - Her new host family is coping well, all things considered)
Su-Shee DrForr: now I'm confused.. she -> bird, dog, ex-girlfriend, daughter?
DrForr Bird with a multilingual daddy.
Altreus see I was disallowing DrForr the use of 'bird' as 'girl'
Altreus for comic effect
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline What do foreign birds speak?

Brogramming

Display

jozefk anybody with suggestion how can I clean up the code in the way as this tool is doing it temporarily in browser? http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/7188/clean-up-webpages-for-note-taking-or-printing-the-easy-way/
rindolf jozefk: you can define a print stylesheet.
jozefk I want to clean the page from everything. not only to see it like that on screen but to really modify the code
rindolf jozefk: well, you can read what the bookmarklet is doing and emulate it.
jozefk I see the javascript code from bookmarklet but I think I can't modify real files on hard disk with javacript codes
jozefk and the code is more than 300 lines :)
tm604 sure you can, js runs serverside happily enough, but it'd be just as easy to convert the JS logic to perl.
jozefk that sounds like programing. I thought there is some tool like that bookmarklet which I can use to modify files on HDD
Altreus tm604: except the JS runs on a DOM in a browser, with a browser context
tm604 yes, it does sound a bit like programming, doesn't it? good thing this is a programming channel, so it's hopefully still on-topic.
Altreus I don't think there's a node module that will load an HTML file and create a browser context in which to then run JS on that HTML's DOM and output the result
jozefk :)
jozefk DOM is not so important here I think. because JS is removing everything from code and just applying another CSS
jozefk so the page looks different
tm604 huh, thought there was. the script itself should be trivial to convert to perl either way.
Altreus probably a better idea :)
jozefk yeah, better. one day when I become a programmer :) I will do it.
pkrumins I want to become a brogrammer
jozefk why?
Altreus taking pictures of bros
pkrumins So I can do some awesome brogramming, jozefk!
jozefk :))
rindolf pkrumins: yo bro! I hurd you like brogramming so we put your bro in your brogram so you can brogram while you bro!
nate_h rofl
rindolf nate_h: :-)
nate_h should it be brozefk ?
rindolf rinbrolf
rindolf pk-bro-mins
pkrumins rindolf: i put a browser in your browser
pkrumins rindolf: so you can browse while yo browse
rindolf pkrumins: bro, a browser is so 90s.
fizztpok broser?
PerlJam bowser
nate_h mushroom?
rindolf pkrumins: KDE-4.8.x-beta-something is coming to Mageia Linux 2/Cauldron. \o/
fizztpok I search on duckduckbro!
nate_h co-co-coommmboo breaker
rindolf pkrumins: I'll see how much it fixes and how much it breaks.
rindolf pkrumins: and fix what it breaks and break what it fixes.
rindolf To preserve the balance in the force.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline I want to become a brogrammer.

Count von Counter

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ncow rindolf: is not { my $c=0; sub getNext { $c++ } } a perfectly good way to do a closure on a variable (that should not be seen by anything other than that sub, sort of like that PHP example with the "static" var <http://www.phpsadness.com/sad/18> and I think similar to static vars in C++ and Java) ?
rindolf ncow: yes, it is.
uri ncow: you can use state vars in recent perls too
ncow but I keep thinking there was a way of doing it with outer and inner subs too, or no
rindolf ncow: thing is in sub outer { my $c = 0 ; .... } the $c is temporary.
ncow uri: yeah I just saw that in perlfaq7 just before you said that, thanks though :)
rindolf ncow: which causes weird side-effects with a package-scope inner sub.
ncow rindolf: but shouldn't the inner sub have a closure over $c though?
rindolf ncow: it will.
rindolf ncow: but every time you call outer() you get a different $c.
apeiron Windows also accepts a sledgehammer to the harddrive.
ncow rindolf: I'm talking about calling the inner one
ncow rindolf: could be interesting to call the outter one to re-prime or something (just kind of thinking aloud, I could be completely wrong)
ncow (please let me know if I am)
cj Botje: that's not the point. Some systems don't :)
rindolf apeiron: Windows requiring doing a SOAP request to a .NET service (that is very picky about its scope) to call an OLE component for writing an Excel macro to do that.
apeiron And for those we have File::Spec.
rindolf apeiron: it's not as straightforward as in UNIX.
ncow I think I found a mis-type in perlfaq7 <http://perldoc.perl.org/perlfaq7.html#How-do-I-create-a-static-variable%3f>, under "How do I create a static variable?"
ncow It says: sub counter { state $count = 1; $counter++ }
ncow I think that should be $count++ not $counter++
rindolf apeiron: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=joel-forum-unix-shooting-in-the-foot
rindolf ncow: yes, it should.
rindolf ncow: or "$state $counter = 1;".
ncow rindolf: oh shit, that is so true. I hate ActiveX like the mf-ing plauge
ncow rindolf: yes, though counter is the sub's name, I think the var was meant to be called $count
ncow as in the count that the counter counts :)
rindolf ncow++
rindolf ncow: it still exists in my github fork of the perl-doc-cats repo.
ncow a counter doesn't counter counters unless it is in fact a counter counter :)
uri ncow: go back to sesame street!
ncow lol
uri it seems to be where you learned your perl!
uri use Big::Bird;
ncow but does a counter counter count it self as a counter counter?
uri that is counterproductive thinking
ncow (or does it just consider itself a cunt and thus only count it self as a cunt counter since it only counts cunts?)
ncow ok I think I'm done with that one...
ncow sorry, when ever someone mentions ActiveX it makes me all twichy, and if there is no one around to choke into submition, I tend to write odd things, like a ram memory discharge
Khisanth a CounterCounterFactoryCounter
szr ActiveX will do that
rindolf ncow: heh.
rindolf ncow++
ncow ooooh now we're talking
rindolf ncow: anyway, how do you want to be credited in the commit log?
uri rindolf: call him the miscount
rindolf uri: heh.
ncow you don't have to do that, but if you really want to, ncow is fine. Necrocow may be me old moniker (and freenode account name) but ncow is what I've been going by for quite a while now
rindolf uri: Count von Counter
ncow so I'm the count of miscountistu?
rindolf ncow: pushed.
ncow cool
ncow glad I could help.
rindolf ncow: you're welcome.
rindolf “One Perl One-Liner, Two Perl One-Liners, Three Perl One-Liners. <Thunder and Lightning> Ha ha ha ha ha ha.”
rindolf -- Count von Counter
ncow rindolf: haha
ncow rindolf: god I still remember that from when I was a kid watching PBS
rindolf ncow: I remember it from the Israeli Sesame Street.
ncow Israeli? didn't know they had their own version
rindolf ncow: they call him there "Mar Soffer." - "Mr. Counting"
rindolf ncow: we actually had two at two different times.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline How many counts will a counter count if a counter could count counts?

Using your Experience Points

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federated_life holy fucking shnikes mst was right
mst federated_life: you'll find that happens a lot.
mst federated_life: every time I level, I put all my XP (= experience points) into "being right" rather than boring things like "tact" ;)
LeoNerd mst: Not ranged weapons?
komodo haha
LeoNerd Gain enough XP and you actually -can- stab people over the Internet
komodo sweet
komodo I wouldn't recommend stabbing PHP people though, I hear they bleed acid
anno bring a blotter
komodo gotta take 'em out from a distance
komodo ah
Khisanth LeoNerd: do nukes count as ranged weapons? :)
LeoNerd I don't see why not
LeoNerd If it's ballistically launched
Khisanth well it's a bit more ... hmm how should I put it
tm604 I'd stand well clear of anyone classing a nuke as a melee weapon.
mst LeoNerd: "no, gunner, your target is <here>" / "oh, of course it is" *BLAM*
mst LeoNerd: aka, being right allows you to -control- ranged weapons :)
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Using Your Experience Points

Hurting People

Display

buu PKRUMINS
rindolf pKrumins
pkrumins BYY
rindolf pkrumins: BUU
rindolf pkrumins: buu is back.
pkrumins rindolf: i know
rindolf pkrumins: he said he was close to disappearing.
pkrumins WHAT
pkrumins buu, is that true
rindolf pkrumins: he was sick.
pkrumins HE WASNT
buu =[
buu I was
pkrumins HOW
buu Genetic defects!
pkrumins OH NO
pkrumins OH NO NO NO
mauke substance abuuse
buu Owch
buu That joke almost qualifies as abuse
mauke now that I've hurt mst and buu, my work for today is done
pkrumins you still havent hurt me
rindolf mauke: hold on! You haven't hurt me yet.
buu haha
* rindolf is hurt that mauke didn't hurt him.
rindolf Oh wait.
mauke just as keikaku.
rindolf mauke: OK, now your work for today is done.
pkrumins NO
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Are you being hurt?

The Shouting Su-Shee

Display

rindolf pkrumins: have you seen http://weblibs.herokuapp.com/ ?
pkrumins i haven't
pkrumins looking at it now
pkrumins haha
pkrumins hipster wannabe-programmer nonsense
rindolf pkrumins: yes.
rindolf pkrumins: Su-Shee had told us about it.
rindolf pkrumins: a while ago.
pkrumins where did she disappear btw
pkrumins oh there she is!
pkrumins i thought she left
mst nah, she's just been quiet recently
pkrumins right.
Su-Shee NO IM NOT. ;)
* mst confiscates Su-Shee's megaphone and hugs her
Su-Shee I can yell naturally!
mst then you won't need this megaphone back, will you? :D
anno .oO(1000000 phones)
Su-Shee *haha* :)
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Alive and yelling

A Natural Stupidity Carbon-based Bot

Display

Altreus I made a new bot running on a carbon-based AI system
apeiron carbon-based? So it's written in C for a Mac?
Altreus no it's me
rindolf Altreus: you're a natural stupidity system - not an artificial intelligence one.
rindolf Altreus: or maybe natural intelligence.
Altreus well you're a poo poo head
Altreus :)
apeiron perlbot, altreus is also six years old
perlbot apeiron: Stored altreus is a small cat (see: http://avatars.plurk.com/3405142-big.jpg) | six years old
Altreus That's generous
rindolf Altreus: calling someone a "poo poo head" proves that this person has natural stupidity.
Altreus rindolf: But the natural stupidity was postulated before the use of the phrase; hence you can't discount the fact that using the phrase was in response to, rather than proof of, the assertion.
rindolf Altreus: yes, but it still proved it after the fact.
rindolf Altreus: Q.E.D.
Altreus rindolf: Except it is possible for an intelligent system to act stupid
Altreus hence it is not, in fact, proof.
rindolf Altreus: that's right - it has the right to in fact.
Altreus Indeed. So given that it has the ability, the right, and the motivation to do so, it is reasonable to assume that in fact that is what happened
rindolf Altreus: OK.
Altreus You would have to gather further data on the system to determine it.
rindolf Altreus: in that case, calling someone a "poo poo head" has the property of having natural stupidity.
rindolf Or acting under the influence of natural stupidity.
rindolf Possibly artificial natural stupidity.
Altreus rindolf: artificial natural stupidity ._.
Altreus I think your sentence is at odds with itself
Altreus Well, your fragment
rindolf Altreus: it's an oxymoron.
Altreus correct
rindolf Oxymorons are indicative of natural stupidity.
Altreus I gave the artificial impression of natural stupidity!
Altreus Stupid phrases are an indication of a) stupidity or b) intelligence
rindolf Hence stupid phrases are not indicative.
Altreus Quite so
rindolf Only intelligent phrases can be indicative of something.
Altreus Stupidity is an absence, and you cannot prove an absence without first proving an exhaustive set.
rindolf Wise men know they are stupid.
Altreus :)
rindolf Whereas foolish people think they are not.
rindolf The earliest Greek philosophers tried to philosophise in verse.
rindolf Which didn't work too well.
Altreus Maybe they should have chosen a different meter
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Detecting natural stupidity

Negative Numbers

Display

tziOm what is the most efficient way to do: floor($foo/600)*600
ChibaPet um
Altreus floor $foo
Altreus :P
DrForr Premature microoptimization detected at line 0.
Altreus I think that /is/ the most efficient way to do it
ChibaPet what about int $foo?
ChibaPet or is floor more efficient?
Altreus I think this is rounding to the nearest 600
Altreus er, the lowest 600
Altreus int truncates towards 0
ChibaPet doesn't floor do that as well?
DrForr You're looking at microoptimization in *math*. Surely there are bigger fish to fry?
Altreus ChibaPet: consider negatives
ChibaPet Oh! Negatives. Slipped right by me. Thanks.
Altreus the difference in most operations is evident in negatives, except the various rounding techniques
fizzie Negative numbers, brr, they're just not natural.
Altreus :)
rindolf fizzie: :-)
rindolf fizzie: but they are real.
rindolf fizzie: and they aren't imaginary or complex.
Altreus they're not /that/ real
rindolf fizzie: though they can be irrational.
rindolf Heh.
DrForr -5 ∈ ℝ
antox I think tziOm wanted to round down to 10 minutes. Maybe s/.:..$/0:00/ is an option? :D
* Altreus smacks antox with a bin
* rindolf smacks antox with a larger bin.
Altreus this one http://www.suasnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/dusty1.gif
* ChibaPet hands antox a fish.
shorten Altreus's url is at http://xrl.us/bmpbt6
rindolf My bin is bigger than Altreus'.
DrForr Rainbow trout all 'round!
Altreus was that a pun
antox Anyway guys, I haven't got if I should be proud of getting smacked by a bin.
Altreus no
Altreus it's pain-based learning
rindolf antox: you were smacked by two bins - one smaller, one larger.
Cipher-0 You made a mistake???!one!!! Clean out your desk at once!!!!!!eleven!!!!!
antox And no supper today!
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Don't be so negative.

Laziness

Display

shadowpaste "thrig" at 72.14.189.113 pasted "countcounterdecountersville for morissette" (22 lines) at http://scsys.co.uk:8002/176933
rindolf thrig: why are you using qx... in void-context? You should use system.
thrig because it's a quick example and I'm lazy
rindolf thrig: laziness!
rindolf thrig: laziness will be the fall of mankind but I cannot be arsed to do anything about it.
mst I tried, but last week's meeting of the apathy society was cancelled due to lack of interest
thrig ~~ Mr. Wiggles-san!
apeiron apathy society? couldn't care less myself.
thrig the Something or the Other re. Pirates Act
LeoNerd "What do you think are the major causes of ignorance and apathy in today's voting public?" "Hrm.. don't know. Don't care, really.."
Invis :D
thrig back in the day, one would get smited for lazing the day away watching Aramaic Idol
rindolf thrig: when I was younger, I watched Sumerian Idol.
thrig it's in estivation now, I hear
cfedde rindolf: gilgamesh was such a bastard on that show.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline I don't care about my apathy

Complex Math

Display

Teratogen eval: 1+1
perlbot Teratogen: 2
Teratogen it works!
Teratogen eval: e**(pi*i)
perlbot Teratogen: 1
Teratogen oh dear =(
vreg eval: 1/0
perlbot vreg: ERROR: Illegal division by zero at (eval 1702) line 1.
Teratogen eval: sqrt(-1)
perlbot Teratogen: ERROR: Can't take sqrt of -1 at (eval 1702) line 1.
Teratogen what the
tm604 http://search.cpan.org/perldoc?Math::Complex
vreg eval: use Math::Complex; sqrt(-1)
perlbot vreg: ERROR: Can't locate Math/Complex.pm in @INC (@INC contains:) at (eval 1702) line 1. BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at (eval 1702) line 1.
LeoNerd Math::Complex? Why not Math::Simple?
rindolf LeoNerd: heh.
rindolf Simple Numbers.
rindolf Math::Tiny
rindolf Math::Tiny::ButMaintained
LeoNerd Hehe.. Math::Tiny. Only copes with the range [0,1)
rindolf LeoNerd: sounds more like fuzzy logic.
rindolf LeoNerd: this [0,1) thing reminds me of this joke of mine - http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=jewish-deduction
LeoNerd Hehe
rindolf Math::Jewish.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Making Complex Math Simple

Jumping Off a Bridge

Display

PerlJam m4rcu5: you need a newer perl to use the /r modifier to tr///
mauke also, why are you reading 5.14's perlop?
apeiron "because that's what I found online"
m4rcu5 mauke: too old? i tought that de default install of gentoo came shiped with a bit more up2date version of perl :P
apeiron snrk
m4rcu5 mauke: because thats what perldoc.perl.org served me ;-)
mauke and why are you going to perldoc.perl.org?
alnewkirk if perldoc told you to jump off of a bridge, would you?
rindolf alnewkirk: if Chuck Norris told me to do that, I would.
PerlJam rindolf: Chuck Norris wouldn't tell you … he'd just round-house kick you off of the bridge.
rindolf PerlJam: heh.
rindolf PerlJam: what if he's nowhere near the bridge?
alnewkirk rindolf: chuck norris is everywhere yet nowhere in particular
alnewkirk … like the wind
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline I’ll jump off the bridge when I get there.

Deprecation

Display

Su-Shee SO I TURNED TO YOU FOR HELP IN TIMES OF DESPERATION…
Botje desperation is for wimps
anno prosperation?
Altreus deprecation is an outdated concept and we prefer not to do it
Su-Shee let’s deprecate deprecation.
alpha-- agreed.
alpha-- oh wait.
Su-Shee that would be a deprecation
rindolf Who will watch the watcher?
rindolf Who will deprecate deprecation?
Su-Shee shouldn’t someone deprecate the deprecator in that case?
* rindolf deprecates the deprecator who is deprecating deprecation.
Altreus that's OK, it's not deprecated yet
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline To deprecate deprecation, we first need to stop deprecating.

Ampersand’s Many Friends

Display

el_seano is there ever a good reason to omit ampersands from subroutine invocations?
* el_seano <- noob
mauke wrong question
archon- always
mauke is there ever a good reason to add ampersands to subroutine calls?
archon- almost never
el_seano it seems like a nice touch to include the sigil so there's no ambiguity
rindolf el_seano: http://perl-begin.org/tutorials/bad-elements/#ampersand-in-subroutine-calls
Yaakov Ampersands are among the coolest punctuation marks & add their coolness to everything they are used for.
mauke el_seano: what ambiguity?
apeiron foo() # pretty umambiguous
archon- &Yaakov&
* rindolf prefers ampersors.
rindolf Or ampernots.
Yaakov AmperSnot
archon- amberbuts
archon- amber?
archon- amperbuts!
el_seano :D
Yaakov ampersif
tybalt89 ampersand followed by amperbuff and amperpolish...
Yaakov amperbeadblast
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline If you like ampersands, you’ll also love…

Chuck Norris and Perl

Display

RiXtEr-Work thanks perl people! Sorry I am a newbie!
apeiron Don't apologize for being a newbie
DrForr RiXtEr-Work: We all were at one time. Well, except maybe Larry.
apeiron Apologize for being stupid and then fix it
RiXtEr-Work drforr, I wrote a bunch of perl back in about 2003-2005 era, but if you don't use it you lose it I guess..
rindolf DrForr: Chuck Norris was never a newbie!
rindolf Chuck Norris will kill anyone who implies otherwise.
RiXtEr-Work rindolf, chuck norris is the perl interpereter...
rindolf RiXtEr-Work: heh.
rindolf Only perl and Chuck Norris can parse Perl.
RiXtEr-Work haha
DrForr Naw, all Chuck Norris has to do is *look* at perl and it interprets itself out of fear and respect.
RiXtEr-Work Chuck Norris doesn't need to program, his computer does what he says when he says it.
rindolf Chuck Norris taught God how to create the universe.
DrForr Insert Higgs joke here.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline I was a newbie once. Chuck Norris wasn’t.

talexb about having a flat tire

Display

talexb: “Hey, I have a flat tire. Can you help me change it with a can opener and a pound of sesame seeds?”

(In context of parsing XML or HTML with regular expressions.)

Author talexb
Work Freenode’s #perl

Which version of Perl are we at, today?

Display

Botje crane_work: 5.6 is ancient.
pink_mist crane_work: use perlbrew
mauke do you mean 5.6?
Botje crane_work: even 5.10 is end of line.
mauke then you need to install 5.6
mauke also, uninstall 5.6 and 5.10 and install 5.16
DrForr crane_work: Then install v5.6 with perlbrew. And pad your keyboard for the inevitable <headdesk/>s.
DrForr And holy god why do you *need* something last bugfixed in the last *century*.
Botje or, you know, use a version of perl developed *after* 9/11.
lesshaste mauke: would you be able to share the code with me?
crane_work lol ^^
mauke lesshaste: http://paste.scsys.co.uk/204936
lesshaste thanks!
Botje if necessary, tell your boss perl 5.16 has been terrorism-proofed.
DrForr crane_work: Ha ha only *serious*. 5.6 is almost unrecognizable under the cobwebs.
crane_work i guess this would be a pro argument...
pink_mist crane_work: as we've said a few times: perlbrew
lesshaste mauke: I get that's fast!
lesshaste I bet
mauke lesshaste: I doubt it
lesshaste we need someone to work on pyperl :)
mauke it seeks all over the place
lesshaste mauke: why?
lesshaste ah ok
huf c code with perl reindenting is ... strange
mauke but that's why I wanted to test it on a nontrivial data set :-)
DrForr Why would compiling to a different VM do any good?...
DrForr Oh, because it's python, therefore better. Silly me.
huf it'd force people to understand (and fix) the darkest corners of the perl grammar? *shrug* dunno
mauke grammar and semantics
huf that too. the vote on how to interpolate $length[1234] into regexes doesnt make me feel good...
lesshaste DrForr: it's not really python
lesshaste DrForr: In fact, it's not python :)
lesshaste DrForr: they just did the same thing for PHP
lesshaste DrForr: and was some project for prolog etc in the past
crane_work maybe this question would be stupid but... why if use v5.06 is stupid is it possible to tell perl to use a version?
mauke crane_work: what?
huf use v5.6 isnt stupid, it just does something other than what you wanted.
lesshaste DrForr: the idea is simply that it would be *faster*
crane_work huf: in which cases will i need it=?
rindolf lesshaste: isn't pyperl this - http://wiki.python.org/moin/PyPerl ?
mauke when your code doesn't run on 5.005 and earlier
huf crane_work: use VERSION means your script requires at least that version of perl. if an older one tries to load it, it'll tell you to fuck off and get a newer perl. it will not turn your new perl into an old one however.
lesshaste rindolf: that has the same name :) I mean using pypy to make a jit for perl as in http://pypy.org/
rindolf lesshaste: OK, there's perlito.
mst crane_work: if you want to check for things
mst crane_work: Perl::MinimumVersion exists IIRC
rindolf perlbot: perlito
perlbot rindolf: No factoid found. Did you mean one of these: [#perl topic] [perl topic] [perl tutorials] [perl5004delta] [perl5005delta] [perl561delta] [perl56delta] [perl570delta] [perl6 Test.pm] [perldata]
lesshaste rindolf: is that a static compiler or a jit?
DrForr crane_work: Then start with 5.16 and don't worry about earlier versions.
rindolf perlbot: perlito is http://perlito.org/ - a Perl 5 / Perl 6 compiler written in Perl 5 / Perl 6.
perlbot rindolf: Stored perlito is http://perlito.org/ - a Perl 5 / Perl 6 compiler written in Perl 5 / Perl 6.
rmah people should just call it perl 16
huf but it isn't.
mst I have a tendency to say /usr/bin/perl version 16
mst since -V says 'perl revision 5 version 16';
mst so it *is* "version 16"
rmah they called java 1.4 "java 4"
rmah it's just marketing man!
GlitchMr Perl 16 would be too confusing with Perl 6
mst perl6 is a separate language
rmah GlitchMr: we'll soon have Perl 18, so it's all good
GlitchMr Perl 5.006 is definitely not Perl 6
mst this is perl5 version 16
michael_campbell They called java 1.4, "java 1.4". java moved names at java 5.
michael_campbell but point stands.
huf did it help? i know it generated years of confusion :D
huf is that good?
mauke GlitchMr: but I call it perl6, not perl 6
mst GlitchMr: yeah, "Perl 6" is an error, since the 6 is part of the name
Su-Shee I call Java "Anne-Mary Lousia" and Python "Charles Phillip Arthur George" (bonus points for recognizing this one ;)
mst GlitchMr: people misparse it as "perl version 6"
rmah how much of an improvement is perl 16 over perl 14 and 12?
Botje Su-Shee: do you also put them like that on your CV? :)
rindolf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd is at version 187 - eat your heart out, Emacs!
rmah wondering if I should go through the hassle of upgrading
Botje rmah: five percent.
DrForr Su-Shee: Vaguely.
mst Su-Shee: python's ears aren't nearly big enough for that
pink_mist rmah: read the perldoc perldeltas
rmah Botje: hmm, ok
mst rmah: s//r in 14 is my favourite thing ever
rmah pink_mist: that would take actual work! <gasp!>
mst rmah: also 'package Name VERSION {'
Su-Shee mst: *bow* nice. :)
GlitchMr s///r is just nice syntactic sugar
rmah mst: thanks for the info
mst GlitchMr: given a turing machine, all new syntax is sugar
rmah I like sugar
GlitchMr Hmmm... yeah
GlitchMr We all could write without pointers in C
mauke could we?
GlitchMr Brainfuck to C compiler doesn't use pointers
GlitchMr ... or perhaps it does...
GlitchMr Would int array[3000]; count as pointer?
mst without the ability to point, what would you do before you laugh?
Altreus mst: you should tweet that profundity
Altreus might not be banal enough for twitter mind you
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline A critique of pure revision.

Not a solution

Display

EdwardIII Altreus: I saw your magento moral quantry on g+
rindolf EdwardIII: Magento!
* rindolf runs away screaming.
rindolf EdwardIII: do you mean the eCommerce solution?
EdwardIII rindolf: i do
EdwardIII heh
Altreus rindolf: “solution” is a bit generous
Altreus I would say “problem”
Channel #perl-cats
Network Freenode
Tagline Not a solution

Perl’s Moose and its Roles

Display

rindolf perlbot: revert 5449
perlbot rindolf: Reverted soap to revision 5449
rindolf perlbot: good perlbot
perlbot rindolf: <purrrrrrr /> <woof /> <tail-wag />
* fizztpok wonders how many people list ``perlbot'' as a language on their CVs.
rindolf perlbot: help mkalias
perlbot rindolf: Sorry, no plugin named mkalias found.
pdl wait, it purrs AND woofs?
rindolf pdl: mixed message.
rindolf pdl: the purring is as a cat.
pdl rindolf: Maybe it's neither dog nor cat but Moose and just implements purring, woofing and tailwagging via roles?
rindolf pdl: heh.
rindolf I didn't know Meese were actors.
rindolf How many roles does a Moose play?
fizztpok 502 results for "Moose Role" on CPAN.
rindolf genio: nice.
pdl http://deps.cpantesters.org/depended-on-by.pl?module=Moose%3A%3ARole
rindolf fizztpok: wow! That Moose must be the world's most prolific actor. Which is especially impressive given the fact that he's not human.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline How many roles must a one Moose play…

For lack of a slash

Display

nydel helo
mucker_ hello nydel
nydel howdy mucker_ & how're you
DrForr ehlo nydel
mucker_ nydel: borderline
nydel hihi DrForr
mucker_ nydel: The Doctor is drunk !! In a short while he will start singing :)
nydel DrForr: why wait? mucker_ will you get on backup vocals
DrForr Don't make me get out my ga^wuke.
nydel let's sing about Perl, are there any good Perl songs
DrForr Ask PerlJam.
tadzik Rolling Stones had something about Tuesday
tadzik that was Ruby Tuesday though :(
DrForr Well, I *did* have a pint at lunch, but I'd hardly call that 'drunk'.
nydel DrForr: pint of vodka?
DrForr Hoegaarden actually.
rindolf nydel: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/Im-The-Real-Tim-Toady/
rindolf nydel: also http://perlbuzz.com/2007/12/it-was-twenty-years-ago-today.html
DrForr o/' Will the real Rip Taylor please crack up, please crack up, please crack up o/'
rindolf nydel: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=perl-losing-my-abstraction
nydel rindolf: what lovely little ditties!
DrForr Hey, who you callin'....oh :)
nydel is there an offtopic perl channel?
DrForr Is there an *ontopic* perl channel?
rindolf nydel: #perlcafe and #perl-cats
nydel fed you that straight line didn't i
nydel join #perlcafe
nydel pardon my lack of slash.
rindolf For lack of a slash, the command failed.
rindolf For lack of a command, the client failed.
rindolf For lack of a client, the server failed.
rindolf For lack of a server, the network failed.
rindolf All because of a little slash.
pink_mist For lack of a network, the corporation failed. For lack of a corporation, the community failed.
mucker_ Having failed, the community peddled hash tables to kids
DrForr "The first key's free!"
cfedde see? I've been saying this is a language based on drug culture.
DrForr "UNIX and LSD were both invented at Berkeley. I do not believe this to be a coincidence."
cfedde BSD and LSD.
cfedde Unix was invented at some east coast lab.
DrForr Thanks for the correction, I knew it didn't quite sound right.
pink_mist also, was LSD really *invented* at Berkeley? I find that hard to believe ... that it's *available* there I don't doubt though..
mucker_ well guido is from netherlands.
pink_mist ... seems it was actually discovered in Basel, Germany by Albert Hofmann in 1938 :P
pink_mist Basel, Germany -- Berkeley ... starting letter and ending letters are the same :P
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Fun on #perl

Perl and other Animals

Display

* GumbyPAN CPAN Upload: Moos-0.12 by INGY http://metacpan.org/release/INGY/Moos-0.12
rindolf Moos?
rindolf ingy: is Moos halfway between Moo and Moose?
mst rindolf: no. it's sort of Mo++ but he'd run out of letters.
rindolf mst: oh.
Kovensky "Moos completes the M to Moose sequence of Perl OO modules."
Khisanth M Mo Moo Moos Moose <- sounds like a pokemon
huf or like a lady gaga song
mauke next up: oM ooM sooM esooM
Su-Shee So, let's go for l, loo, loose next and there's also g, goo and goose..
hippie n, no, ... noose
Su-Shee "l the light perl object system", "g the generic perl object system" ...
rindolf Su-Shee: LOL.
rindolf Su-Shee++
rindolf Khisanth: reminds me of "Na Nah Nahm Nahman Me'ooman"
preaction manamana
Su-Shee also: "dammit, I have a mouse in my appartment" :/
rindolf A mouse in your Perl.
rindolf CPAN - we put animals in your Perl code.
* rindolf registers Animal.pm.
Su-Shee I mean a real one which just ran along the wall :(
ingy rindolf: Moos is yet another single file OO module, that tries to loosely mimic Moose module structure
rindolf ingy: ah.
rindolf ingy: OK.
PerlJam Su-Shee: time to get a cat ;)
rindolf Su-Shee: all I have is ants and cockroaches.
Su-Shee cockroaches.. even worse :(
rindolf https://metacpan.org/search?q=ant
* PerlJam contemplates a Moose-a-like module called "Mooserly" so that we can extend the ... "ecosystem" ;>
hippie Moosic?
PerlJam Moosaic :P
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline A-Moose-ing

The Final Perl Countdown

Display

* GumbyPAN CPAN Upload: App-Countdown-v0.0.3 by SHLOMIF http://metacpan.org/release/SHLOMIF/App-Countdown-v0.0.3
* rindolf nuzzles GumbyPAN
thrig when is 0.0.2 coming out?
rindolf thrig: 0.0.2 of what?
thrig rindolf: THE COUNTDOWN!
stan_ the final one?
rindolf thrig: it was released earlier today. ;-)
thrig what sort of countdown goes up?
rindolf thrig: the Merlin countdown.
huf one in soviet russia?
apeiron perlbot, in soviet russia
perlbot apeiron: joke is tired of you
sjohnson heh
reisio thrig: the kind parsed by Opera
* GumbyPAN CPAN Upload: App-Countdown-v0.0.4 by SHLOMIF http://metacpan.org/release/SHLOMIF/App-Countdown-v0.0.4
thrig !
rindolf thrig: s/App-Countdown/App-Countup/
Channel #perl
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Tagline Count von Countdown

Back to Lingual Basics

Display

arkydo rindolf: How different is modern Hewbrew from classical Hebrew in terms of grammar?
rindolf arkydo: Classical Hebrew? What's that?
thrig presumably with tuxes and violins instead of guitars
rindolf arkydo: there was Biblical Hebrew, Mishna'ic Hebrew, Medieval Hebrew, post-Medieval Hebrew, and Modern Hebrew.
stan\0 how confusing
arkydo rindolf: biblical Hebrew I mean.
grothendieck Post-Modern Hebrew :P
rindolf arkydo: I think Modern Hebrew is using the grammar of the Mishna'ic Hebrew with the vocabulary of the Biblical Hebrew.
thrig Atonal Hebrew, Serial Hebrew, Minimal Hebrew
rindolf arkydo: you can understand a large part of the Bible, but the grammar sounds different.
rindolf arkydo: though you get used to it.
Vicissitude what about homebrew Hebrew?
rindolf Vicissitude: perlbrew Hebrew!
Vicissitude :)
rindolf perlall Hebrew.
rindolf local-lib Hebrew.
alpha- we should all just stick to ASCII
alpha- and learn English
alpha- would make things so much easier
rindolf alpha-: and less interesting, too.
rindolf alpha-: and less enlightening.
rindolf But that was a joke.
mauke ASCII isn't enough for English
rindolf “128 characters should be enough for everybody.” ;-)
mauke don’t be naïve
thrig I'm sure we can all coöperate on some solution
rindolf mauke: give me ASCII or give me deaþ!
mauke rindolf: ☠
rindolf mauke: thanks.
* rindolf takes the Unicode death thingy from mauke.
mauke there's also ⺞
thrig huh. https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=%E2%98%A0 really google? nothing?
petn-randall I think we should all go back to grunting in two tones
stan\0 i think google broke
stan\0 for some peopel at least
petn-randall Then we only need one bit for every sound we make
stan\0 only gives me shit
rindolf https://www.google.com/search?q=foobar - seems to work.
stan\0 i meant the quality of results returned is subpar
rindolf petn-randall: wheee... whaaa?
mauke uh-huh
petn-randall rindolf: Exactly.
petn-randall Then we could get of this 'ASCII' everyone's talking about, too
rindolf petn-randall: whooo!
rindolf Ooops.
petn-randall rindolf: You overdid it, how am I gonna get those three cries into one bit?!
rindolf petn-randall: use UTF-cries.
petn-randall I could use compression, I guess ...
rindolf Or UTF-1
* petn-randall snickers
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline One World, One Love, UTF-One

NoSQL /dev/null

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rindolf I just had a brilliant idea: a distributed, NoSQL, WebScale, /dev/null replacement. I think I should patent it.
cfedde rindolf: awesome!
cfedde as long as we have a webscale bit bucket we should be fine.
rindolf cfedde: would you like to invest in that?
spiderweb software patents suck
cfedde rindolf: sure. Send me your bank account number and I'll make a deposit!
alpha- rindolf that's like a 50 trillion dollar invention
alpha- where do I invest
rindolf cfedde: OK, I'll send it through that /dev/null thing.
cfedde rindolf: perfect.
stan\0 would be fun if it escaped the lab and started /dev/null'ing the interwebs like a black hole
DrForr I'd call that a public service.
spiderweb - in a new way
rindolf <stan\0> would be fun if it escaped the lab and started /dev/null'ing the interwebs like a black hole ==> don't worry, I'm also going to patent how to properly secure it against abuse, so it will only null what you send to it. Not anything external and unsolicited.
rindolf stan\0: but doing that will require paying me extra.
rindolf stan\0: because I figure out not every one will need this feature.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline The future scalability of /dev/null

Identically named variables

Display

WeThePeople do % define the @ ?
WeThePeople huf, do hashes define the array
rindolf WeThePeople: %foo and @foo are completely different.
rindolf WeThePeople: note that @foo{@slice_by_me} is part of %foo
wlan % - hash yet
wlan @ array
rindolf WeThePeople: I'm now working on refactoring the perl debugger, which uses many identical names for $, @, and % variables - how irritating.
rindolf And in part these are package-scope variables so they are part of the interface and I cannot change them.
WeThePeople rindolf, so you are refactoring to use $@% only ??
rindolf WeThePeople: no.
rindolf WeThePeople: I mean I have something like $sub , @sub and %sub - all at once.
rindolf WeThePeople: and I dislike it.
rindolf Well, there was also a "sub sub { ... }" (oh the humanity).
cfedde add &sub and sub sub {...}
cfedde hheh
cfedde I'm too slow.
rindolf cfedde: we still love you. :-)
huf oh the possibilities, $sub[$sub], @sub{@sub}, ....
rindolf WITH GREAT HUGE LOVE.
wlan sub sub { &sub }
* rindolf hugs cfedde
cfedde rindolf: me too.
Yaakov &$$sub
rindolf huf: heh.
rindolf sub-par.
cfedde here we find ourselves well on the way to another Acme:: module
rindolf cfedde: heh.
rindolf cfedde: this time it's part of the perl core.
cfedde No just mix in all the case permutations and we've got a winner.
rindolf cfedde: there's a limit to how much I can refactor the debugger without breaking the "external" API.
apeiron sub sandwich;
rindolf cfedde: when I started with it, it was truly vile code.
Yaakov use sub_localize qw/grinder hoagie poboy hero/;
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline sub sub{}-standard

Love for Sale

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Yaakov I LOVE YOU ALL WITH A GREAT HUGE LOVE
rindolf Yaakov: HOW MUCH DOES YOUR GREAT HUGE LOVE COST?
Yaakov It's on offer half price today.
rindolf Yaakov: I WILL OFFER YOU 200,000 VIRTUAL DOLLARS FOR YOUR GREAT HUGE LOVE.
Yaakov The regular price is free of charge.
rindolf Yaakov: oh nice.
* rindolf buys Yaakov's GREAT HUGE LOVE.
DrForr Which is to say bitcoins :)
rindolf I LOVE YOU ALL WITH YAAKOV'S GREAT HUGE LOVE.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline All you need is YAAKOV'S GREAT HUGE LOVE

RESOLVED / WONT_FIX

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sawyer_ LeoNerd, i've decided to send the module author a request for comment on this, saying i cannot write my tests because i cannot override the port his client software uses
sawyer_ perhaps he'll allow the user to override the port used
* LeoNerd nod
LeoNerd Sounds good
sawyer_ considering the author though... i'm wary of the reply :P
* sawyer_ mutters ifyouknowwhatimean
rindolf sawyer_: RESOLVED / WONT_FIX / FUCK_YOU ... story of my life.
sawyer_ hahahahaha
LeoNerd RESOLVED / NOT_GONNA_DONT_WANNA
sawyer_ i once closed a ticket at $work accompanied with a yell over my office that said "and if you open that fucker again, i'm breaking a chair over your fucking face"
sawyer_ but... that's just me :)
rindolf sawyer_: well, I once declined a patch on rt.cpan.org for HTML-Widgets-NavMenu, because it: 1. Broke some existing tests. 2. Was doable with some extra work.
rindolf sawyer_: hah.
sawyer_ rindolf, what pissed me off was that he kept reopening a ticket for something that wasn't configured correctly. the problem was, i still haven't received the request to configure it in the first place.
rindolf I hate those tickets that get closed before it was released as a stable release.
sawyer_ it's taking TDD way too far :)
rindolf sawyer_: ah.
sawyer_ it was like "there's a bug." - "what's the bug?" - "that site is not up" - "it's not supposed to be up" - "yes, it is" - "no, it isn't. when they ask to bring it up, i'll bring it up" - "but it's not up" - "IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO FUCKING BE UP SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY"
Channel #perl
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Dot Star

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theseb i have a regex that finds stuff in parentheses... "\(.*\)" ...how make it NOT be "greedy"?
theseb i.e. if it sees "(aaa)bbb)" I want it to grab (aaa) instead of the entire string
theseb (aaa)bbb)
Kyshtynbai /\ba\b|(\b.*a[^b]+\b)/ <-- this works for my proble, at least at that tests that i run for it. Regexp' theme is really an effort as it seems to me...
Su-Shee theseb: you know there is a module to matched paired things like parentheses.. Text::Balanced?
Su-Shee theseb: extract_bracketed
DrForr Text::Balanced, yes. Doing ab-type balanced strings in REs is a pain.
theseb Su-Shee: thanks...i actually have the same problem with brackets []
Su-Shee theseb: extract_bracketed ;)
LeoNerd Or Parser::MGC :)
Su-Shee theseb: also, .* is the most unspecific regex you can use, it's like saying oh well match something of anything or nothing and please, a lot of it ;)
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline .* described

Perl’s Enterprise Release

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federated_life once you get into poe and moose heavily…why stay with perl instead of going to java ?
LeoNerd I've spent much of this last month writing Perl at home and Java at work.. I really really dislike Java
Su-Shee federated_life: what for?
federated_life since being a real programmer is editing the binary files directly instead of recompiling…but java has a lot of nice stuff
LeoNerd It is far too new FutureFunction<Param,Result>() { public Future<Result> apply(Param p) { noisy } } for my liking
Su-Shee federated_life: WTF?
LeoNerd I always get annoyed that the smallest of things takes just far too much code in Java, to the point that after a glance, I can't see where the real detail is
Su-Shee federated_life: and what nice stuff does Java has?
apeiron federated_life, you know where Java is if you want it. we're not stopping you.
federated_life Im no java expert, nor a perl expert …. but I don't have to load half of cpan to get moose equivalent in java
apeiron it's hardly half of CPAN
apeiron it's not even a third or a quarter
federated_life :)
apeiron no, not :)
apeiron more like "stfu and stop spreading ignorance-based FUD"
federated_life perl is awesome, no doubts about it, but Im curious what other languages you guys hack stuff up in
Su-Shee federated_life: then just use Java and leave us using something else if you like it better.. also: plenty of perl code doesn't even need Moose or POE
apeiron C
rindolf federated_life: I also use C, Ruby and Python.
LeoNerd Perl, Scheme, C, Java,...
rindolf federated_life: and I play with other languages too.
rindolf federated_life: and C++.
tybalt89 federated_life: surveys are one channel over
Su-Shee federated_life: C, Ruby, JavaScript, Shell, R and sadly Java for Android stuff
lroe tybalt89, #perl++?
LeoNerd Objective Perl++.NET
rindolf LeoNerd: heh.
rindolf LeoNerd: Enterprise Edition.
LeoNerd Wait, Objective jPerl++.NET surely..
Su-Shee Objective jPerl.NET++ Enterprise Beans
rindolf Objective jIronPerl++.NET Enterprise Edition.
federated_life jperl !! awesome, now something to make java devs lose their minds
LeoNerd I wonder if anyone has a web framework called Toast
LeoNerd Could make Beans on Toast
rindolf federated_life: there's Inline::Java, BTW.
lroe Objective jIronPerl++.NET Enterprise Edition♭
LeoNerd lroe: Isn't the "Iron" something about .NET anyway though?
lroe I added the ♭
lroe not the iron
Su-Shee LeoNerd: you hid your python.
LeoNerd *ahem*
rindolf federated_life: http://paste.debian.net/218118/ - Larry Wall about Java.
rindolf lroe: isn't the ♭ "flat"?
rindolf perlbot: utf8 ♭
perlbot rindolf: U+266D (e2 99 ad): MUSIC FLAT SIGN [♭]
rindolf :-)
federated_life rindolf: circa 1997
lroe yes it is the flat sign
lroe as opposed to the sharp sign
rindolf http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=shlomif-functional-specs--ms-editing-macros
rindolf So now we have:
rindolf Objective jIronPerl++.NET Enterprise Edition♭ Professional Home Premium™.
rindolf LOL.
icebattle Objective jIronPerl++.NET Enterprise Edition♭ Professional Home Premium 64-bit Single-user
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Enterprise Perl for the Enterprise Win

On writing blog engines

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rindolf petn-randall: pkrumins claims that for true nirvana, every hacker should write their own blog engine.
petn-randall rindolf: Writing your own nirvana may be easier than writing a good blog engine ;)
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Ther’s always something easier…

Love the time, like it was your brother

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Yaakov I LOVE YOU ALL WITH A GREAT HUGE LOVE
rindolf Yaakov: DO YOU ALSO LOVE THE NEW YEAR WITH GREAT HUGE LOVE?
Yaakov rindolf: I really only love people with that sort of love.
rindolf Yaakov: ah.
buu Yaakov: What about simulated people?
* rindolf demands equal rights for years, minutes, hours and days to also get YAAKOV'S GREAT HUGE LOVE.
Yaakov buu: You aren't a simulation.
rindolf Heh.
whosgonna Yaakov: we still love ya ;)
rindolf Oh well, let's put some GREAT HUGE LOVE into the code.
apeiron WE LOVE YOU WITH A GREAT HUGE LOVE YAAKOV
whosgonna please no equal rights for the minutes. we don't want GREAT HUGE LOVE every 60 seconds.
Yaakov <3
rindolf Drupal does not give me GREAT HUGE LOVE.
apeiron whosgonna, yes we do
rindolf It does not give me any love at the moment.
whosgonna rindolf: does it give you fits of agony?
whosgonna apeiron: i stand corrected.
rindolf whosgonna: kinda.
Yaakov I just don't love time like I love people. I can't say I *love* time at all. I appreciate the necessity of time to my love of people, and so I suppose you could make a reasonable cause that I have a second-order love of time.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline All you need is YAAKOV'S GREAT HUGE LOVE

Botjinxing the Interwebs

Display

Su-Shee ok this is the 10th time numpy timesouts while downloading its stupid module - why does that NEVER happen to me with CPAN? not in a DECADE?
Botje snakes on the network cables.
Su-Shee great thanks, now you jinxed it and it timed out again.
Botje happy to oblige.
Botje tuesdays make computers mopy.
Su-Shee someone beat Botje, please.
Botje I'll take all of you on at quake 3!
rindolf Su-Shee: what are your computer's SPECs?
BinGOs MAXIMUM ARMOUR
Su-Shee rindolf: what?
Su-Shee rindolf: what kind of question is that?
rindolf Su-Shee: like P4-2.4GHZ, Core i3, Pentium 3, etc.
Su-Shee rindolf: are you kidding me? what does that have to do with timeouts while downloading a file?
rindolf Su-Shee: no idea.
rindolf Su-Shee: it shouldn't.
Su-Shee rindolf: then why are you asking such a question?
rindolf Su-Shee: maybe use a proxy.
rindolf Su-Shee: I mean a proxy on localhost or something.
Su-Shee rindolf: and what is a proxy on localhost going to proxy before I even have the file it should proxy later on? :)
Su-Shee Botje: DON'T MOVE. IT'S /(%
Su-Shee 78%
rindolf Su-Shee: I mean let python use the proxy and the proxy will download it in a better way.
Botje Su-Shee: IT'S OKAY, THE FILE WILL BE CORRUPT ANYWAY.
rindolf Su-Shee: and cache it too.
rindolf Botje: heh.
rindolf Botje: you're Evil.
rindolf Botje: will you join my Evil Reindeer Evil Conspiracy?
Botje I managed to blow up the same CD burn process three times by touching my friend's screen.
Botje burn burn burn *touch screen* buffer underrun.
rindolf Oooh... CDs - such low tech.
rindolf CDs are so 90s.
Su-Shee rindolf: says the man who suggests installing a proxy for a single file..
Botje IN OUR TIME WE EXCHANGED DATA BY PUTTING PITS IN CIRCULAR PLASTIC DISKS AND WE WERE HAPPY ABOUT IT!
Su-Shee rindolf: and asks how fast my computer is in 2013...
Su-Shee Botje: YOU LOST I HAVE MY FUCKING NUMPY
rindolf Su-Shee: NASA still has some VAXes.
Botje Su-Shee: UNPACK IT FIRST. THERE IS A SURPRISE IN THERE.
rindolf Botje: heh.
rindolf Botje++
Botje (does it show that I'm really frustrated with this paper i'm reviewing?)
rindolf No NUMPY FOR YOU. MUAHAHAH
Su-Shee Botje: on my numpy download: indeed.
Su-Shee Botje: now I'm going for scipy.. hold still and don't move.
Botje Su-Shee: I'm spinning around in my chair. try and stop me.
Botje alanjf: too much effort to keep track of.
Su-Shee Botje: now that is easily done with a little violence.. ;)
* rindolf kills Botje so he won't move.
Botje but but but
Botje newton's first law!
rindolf Botje: maybe your ghost can move.
Botje I keep spinning for a while!
Su-Shee Botje: "you can't kill Botje" isn't newton's first law.
Su-Shee it's not even the 5th.
Su-Shee Botje: GO AWAY FROM MY WLAN.
Botje Su-Shee: YOU MIS-SPELLED LAWN.
Botje Su-Shee: MAYBE IF YOU STOP SHAKING YOUR CANE
Su-Shee Botje: IF I ASK MST I'M SURE HE WILL HELP ME WITH SOME CLASSIC BRITISH BOARDING SCHOOL NAVY STYLE CANE-ING..
Su-Shee dammit this python shit requires work.
tm604 oh wait my irc was stuck, Su-Shee's clearly broken the internet again
Su-Shee tm604: it's python's fault. and botje's. not mine.
tm604 python is correct by definition, everyone else is wrong
Su-Shee lol.. that is amazing... pip install scipy requires some library called blas - but that's not available in pip.. reading up on how to install it, I seriously find fortran complile lines to call by hand.. WHAT THE HELL?
Channel #perl
Network Freenode

How to stop a discussion

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huf please stop now
Su-Shee indeed.
rindolf OK.
rindolf Perl.
rindolf Stopping.
rindolf .......... ... ... . . ||||>>>#####
tadzik ahahaha
tadzik yes, let's stop that
rindolf You are all Nazis! ;-)
tadzik people who invoke Godwin's law are worse than Hitler
Channel #perl
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Hegel’s New Clothes

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sliddjur i have a school assignment which tells me to: generate a password hash with perl's crypt.... i dont even know where to start. never used perl. :)
Botje perldoc -f crypt
Botje perlbot: tutorial
perlbot Botje: http://perl-tutorial.org | http://perl-begin.org/tutorials/ | http://perlmonks.org/index.pl?node=Tutorials | http://learn.perl.org/
rindolf sliddjur: is this a highschool assignment?
rindolf sliddjur: or is it a university one?
rindolf sliddjur: surely you can learn Perl.
Su-Shee rindolf: who cares? homework is homework.
rindolf Su-Shee: so ? We help with homework.
rindolf Su-Shee: just trying to learn the enemy.
rindolf Be Prepared.
sliddjur :D
sliddjur its university, but its not a perl/programming class. its just a linuxadmnistration class
Su-Shee rindolf: then think first. two minutes of google tell everybody how to use crypt.
Su-Shee sliddjur: sorry are you really not able to google how to generate a password IN UNIVERSITY?
* rindolf is listening to Alphaville - Forever Young (“Hoping for the best, but expecting the worst” - great song).
tm604 i searched for crypt but all I found were halloween instructions :(
rindolf Su-Shee: google for Perl stuff.
rindolf ?
rindolf Also http://duckduckgo.com/ is better and more consistent than Google.
Su-Shee rindolf: yeah because Perl's crypt is TOTALLY different from all the other crypts.. ;)
rindolf Su-Shee: crypts are like snowflakes - no one alike.
rindolf ;-)
* rindolf has a huge and comprehensive collectionf of crypts on his hard disk.
rindolf I'll soon need to upgrade my hard disk for it.
rindolf OK, back to topic.
Su-Shee also seriously someone at _university_ can't research and learn on his own?
rindolf sliddjur: I suggest you learn some basic Perl properly from a good tutorial
rindolf sliddjur: http://perl-begin.org/tutorials/#perl_in_2hours - see this - it's good but see the caveats and unfortunately it is All Rights Reserved (ARR).
rindolf The author wants to “maintain control” of their work.
Su-Shee yes. many do. get over it.
rindolf Su-Shee: I cannot.
rindolf Su-Shee: well, I can for some time.
Su-Shee rindolf: then don't get over it in the privacy of your room. ;)
rindolf Su-Shee: OK.
* rindolf is heating up some water for some instant soup.
rindolf Maybe I'll heat up some Bourekas and/or red rice after that.
* rindolf is not much of a cook.
rindolf But when I'm hungry, I hack something.
rindolf Su-Shee: BTW, I think trying to understand Hegel is pointless.
rindolf Su-Shee: that or Aristotle's Meta-Physics.
rindolf A lot of high language that yields no gain.
rindolf And is of close to zero utility.
rindolf Like The Emperor's New Clothes that only smart people can see.
Su-Shee rindolf: yeah that's what everybody thinks who has no clue of philosophy..
rindolf Su-Shee: <Su-Shee> rindolf: yeah that's what everybody thinks who has no clue of philosophy.. ==> I rest my case.
rindolf Su-Shee: BTW, I was able to disprove some of the things I was told that Kant or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%B8ren_Kierkegaard or Descartes said using logic and my own intuition.
Su-Shee rindolf: blah.
rindolf tm604++ # Helping with on-topiccy stuff.
rindolf rindolf-- # Being off-topic as usual.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode

Sweet Water

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rindolf Sound: where did you swim?
rindolf Sound: in the swimming pool?
popl wat
popl in the lake
popl with a shark
popl a lake shark
Sound rindolf: yeah, at my gym. underground swimming pool
rindolf Sound: ah.
popl don't make me stop logging #perl :P
rindolf popl: heh, lake shark.
popl then I won't remember things.
rindolf popl++
rindolf Sweet water sharks.
rindolf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresh_water - sorry I meant Fresh water sharks.
rindolf Sweet water is a Hebraism.
Sound rindolf: we say that in Italian too
rindolf Sound: ah, OK.
rindolf Sound: maybe it comes from Latin and/or Greek.
rindolf Or Aramaic or Hebrew.
rindolf Or Sumerian.
popl Or Bolivian.
Su-Shee there's about 6000 other languages..
DrForr Don't get that crowd started.
popl Su-Shee: prove it
Su-Shee popl: I don't have to.
popl Su-Shee: then you're not going to get any ice cream
Su-Shee DrForr: that would require any one of them actually speaking some more languages than one or two. ;)
Su-Shee popl: I already had french chocolate and spanish red wine, so.. ;)
huf it's a relatively new expression, before 1909, nobody knew what water was.
Su-Shee huf: *hihi*
rindolf huf: heh.
rindolf huf++
rindolf I am so making a fortune out of it.
popl And yet you will not make a fortune out of it.
Su-Shee if I remember correctly, they fascinatingly still don't _really_ know what water is (chemically/physically speaking) due to its weird properties.
rindolf People only drank rum and beer before 1909.
* DrForr is enjoying a bottle of kriek while deciding what to do about supper.
Su-Shee DrForr: I earned more wine after not just having added a keyboard shortcut no but also a window raise to sawfish! (horrible. hor-ri-ble.)
popl earned wine?
popl that sounds like rationalization
* popl puts Su-Shee in rehab
Su-Shee popl: wth.. it's called CULTURE here and requires a good climate in your cellar and not a stupid rehab ;)
popl more rationalization
popl the first step is admitting you have a problem
Altreus popl: I admit it. You have a problem
huf i think popl's compulsive rehabilitating behavior is worrying
Channel #perl
Network Freenode

Chuck Norris and Dimensions

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rindolf New Chuck Norris factoid I came up with today “Chuck Norris’s idea of a short walk is to the Andromeda Galaxy and back.”
b0at_ You’re trying too hard.
b0at_ Also, you’ve ignored the curvature of space.
b0at_ which results from Chuck’s winning smile
b0at_ or Larry’s mustache, depending on one’s frame of reference
rindolf b0at_: heh.
rindolf b0at_: Larry Wall’s mustache, right?
b0at_ rindolf: Depending on how many dimensions you think the universe has, his could be the only mustache. So, yes.
rindolf b0at_: I think the universe has 0 dimensions.
Altreus zacts: what options are there?
rindolf b0at_: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/facts/Larry-Wall/ - Larry Wall facts.
sysdef rindolf: maybe it has -1 dimensions
rindolf sysdef: or maybe -2.57673438i dimensions.
rindolf I wonder what an imaginary dimension is.
rindolf But reportedly fractals are fractional dimensions.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Chuck Norris don’t need no dimensions

Who pwns whom, Ozone and Music

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j_wright some people are very attached to their big IDEs, or editors with 1000 features
vasundhar who is advocating vim?
rindolf j_wright: real men and real women and real boys and real girls use butterflies!
* preaction fights for Vim!
rindolf Real cats also use butterflies.
rindolf preaction: every mighty Klingon warrior uses Vim.
rindolf Buffy Summers uses vim.
preaction only green-blooded Romulan scum use Emacs
rindolf Since she is on our side, we are definitely going to win.
Barbapappa chuck norris uses vi
rindolf Barbapappa: heh.
popl_ s/ides/ideas/
rindolf Barbapappa: Buffy Summers > Chuck Norris.
preaction so, Chuck Norris is a vampire?
Barbapappa Richard Simmons > Buffy Summers
rindolf preaction: no, but in the Buffyverse, he's getting pwned by Bfufy.
rindolf Barbapappa: who is Richard Simmons?
Barbapappa rindolf: ;O
preaction exercise guy
rindolf preaction: ah.
preaction you've probably seen him without knowing
rindolf preaction: maybe.
rindolf Weird Al Yankovic > *.
rindolf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Showdown_of_Ultimate_Destiny - Mr. Rogers > *
preaction indeed
rindolf Anyway, the question is - which editor does God use?
j_wright teco
rindolf And which editor does Logic, which is God's master uses?
* rindolf would love to meet the Goddess of Logic.
rindolf j_wright: heh.
popl_ flamebait :P
rindolf popl_: what?
rindolf Logic also has masters. We all do.
rindolf “A is A, and A is not not-A? WTF is he talking about??! Of course A can be not-A! I want a little of the stuff he's on!”
rindolf There was something about there being many storms in Ancient Greece, which made them very high on Ozone.
popl_ No time for existential jibber jabber. Daddy needs new shoes.
rindolf Ozone in small quantities make you think clearer.
rindolf s/make/makes/
popl_ rindolf: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRx5PrAlUdY
popl_ how small?
popl_ :P
rindolf popl_: the music starts very softly.
rindolf popl_: is this dubstep?
popl_ yes
rindolf popl_: ah.
rindolf popl_: ah, OK.
popl_ a dubstep band called o-zone
rindolf popl_: dubstep is all the rage now.
rindolf popl_: I'm more into pop/etc.
rindolf But there's a lot of good dubstep.
rindolf popl_: I don't like this song much. Seems uneven and inconsistent.
popl_ I was joking rindolf. It's not dubstep. This is europop, I guess.
j_wright either way, i am glad i didn't click
popl_ It was a joke because you were talking about ozone in small quantities.
rindolf popl_: ah, I see.
rindolf popl_: seems like Eurodance.
popl_ I hope so. I murdered the joke and splayed it open for you.
rindolf j_wright: <irony>It's actually a rick-roll</irony>
j_wright i don't see the irony
rindolf popl_: it's funny, but I actually like a lot of the all-girls bands britpop, like Atomic Kitten, All Saints, Girls Aloud, Spice Girls, etc.
rindolf popl_: also like some songs by Britney Spears.
rindolf popl_: not sure if Americans are really aware of Atomic Kitten.
rindolf popl_: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V0xQkk9kbc - hope you can view it.
rindolf It may be blocked only to Europe.
rindolf Uploading the .webm now. rsync++.
j_wright http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_Kitten#Members wtf is the point of this chart
j_wright someone wanted a gold star for this page
rindolf Hmm.... they are together again?
rindolf They are whole again!
j_wright oh dear, fangasm
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline When Chuck Norris is Not Tough Enough.

The New Foobar

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Su-Shee maukf: GOD WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU? ARE YOU INJURED?
huf he's become more.
claes_ leveld up
pink_mist new and improved?
Altreus pick one
Altreus can't be both
Altreus (false)
Su-Shee well it seems he incremented. f comes after e. soon he will be maukg.
wagle how do you split a string into a list of lists? (different delimiters).. trying this, but it doesnt work: map {split ("|")} (split('\n',$output)))
maukf there is no such thing as a list of lists
wagle i feared that
DrForr List of arrayrefs.
maukf and your regexes are wrong
wagle but thought perl5 was supposed to
Su-Shee wagle: see DrForr
DrForr wagle: perldoc perlreftut ; perldoc perldsc
wagle ok, thanks
* DrForr goes back to reading about dioxygen difluoride.
east eval: [ split /\n|\|/, "foo|bar\nbaz" ] # wagle ?
perlbot east: ["foo","bar","baz"]
DrForr eval: [map {[split 'a']} split 'b', 'malbajessicaalba']
perlbot DrForr: [["m","l"],["","jessic","","l"],[]]
DrForr wagle: ^^^ maybe.
east .oO( JessicaAlba might be the new foobar )
Altreus without her consent!
east think she wouldn't like it?
Channel #perl
Network Freenode
Tagline Smokin’ hawt meta-syntactic variables

How big is Yaakov’s GREAT HUGE LOVE

Display

rindolf Yaakov: how is your GREAT HUGE LOVE doing today?
Yaakov rindolf: It's doing very well. Thanks for inquiring.
rindolf Yaakov: you're welcome.
rindolf Yaakov: is you GREAT HUGE LOVE bigger than Jupiter?
tybalt89 rindolf: it's greater than one universe, but not greater than two
rindolf tybalt89: ah.
Yaakov rindolf: The magnitude of my love is not a spatial one. It premates all timespace, so there is no spatial measurement that can be made. Comparing it to the extension of any object is meaningless.
huf hmm, "premate"
huf interesting new word
rindolf tybalt89: “There are only two infinite things: the universe and Yaakov’s GREAT HUGE LOVE.”
tybalt89 "premates" ? is that like courtship ?
Botje and we're not entirely sure about the universe!
rindolf Isn't it permeates?
rindolf Botje: yes.
huf no, premate is obviously not permeate
huf they differ on the second letter, dude.
Yaakov That's what what you call a "tpo".
rindolf perlbot: define premate
perlbot rindolf: Whups, no definition for you
taotetek premeditate?
huf Yaakov: i prefer to think of it as you finding a new gem in the word mines
tybalt89 rindolf: classically the third infinite thing is "human stupidity"
Yaakov The problem with routinely using obscure words is that when I make a typo I slashdot dictionary.com.
rindolf tybalt89: human stupidity has become finite thanks to Yaakov's GREAT HUGE LOVE.
tybalt89 rindolf: No. Love does not trump stupidity.
Channel #perl
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HITHIM

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* GumbyPAN welcomes FOSSTAMIL - chandrasekaran to CPAN!
* GumbyPAN welcomes HITHIM - Vladimir Krasulya to CPAN!
pink_mist HITHIM
pink_mist good name
rindolf HITHER
rindolf HITLER
mauke you just went too far
rindolf HITTOOFAR
mauke hmm, hithim looks like a hebrew plural
rindolf mauke: Hittetes.
rindolf http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%97%D7%AA%D7%99%D7%9D
rindolf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hittites
mauke WHAT DID YOU DO, MY WHOLE INTERNET IS BACKWARDS
mauke http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_Hittites
pink_mist lol
Su-Shee I can't be the only one who parsed that as "hi titties" ...
Su-Shee but I'm biased of course.
mauke not me, I was already thinking of "Hethiter"
Su-Shee I'm thinking: moar coffee.
taotetek Su-Shee: I agree with this thought.
Su-Shee taotetek: you will run out of coffee, you just locked yourself in ;)
rindolf I'm thinking: more drugs!
rindolf Sex and drugs and Rock-N'-Roll… a.k:a drugs and drugs and drugs!
Channel #perl
Network Freenode

karma war

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j416 sproingie: so it seems. Thanks for the help! Problem solved. :)
rindolf sproingie++ # Helping j416
sproingie :)
j416 rindolf: ty :)
rindolf j416: you're welcome - you can bump sproingie's karma too.
pink_mist sproingie++ #anyone can do it!
cfedde sproingie++ # Just because it is fun.
anno cfedde++
rindolf anno++
cfedde heh
cfedde karma war!
rindolf karmapocalpyse.
sproingie karma singularity!
cfedde rindolf++ # just to round things out
rindolf cfedde: thanks. :-)
Channel #perl
Network Freenode

Getting to Mongolia

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DrForr Yep, build one to throw it away, then never build the second one :)
Altreus pancake algorithm
Su-Shee hihi.. mongolia has an ACTUAL annual yak shaving contest.. we should all attend. :)
Altreus How will we get there
Altreus huh
Maddingue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinggis_Khaan_International_Airport
DrForr http://www.theyakranch.com/Yak-Tails/dog-shame-yak-shame.html # Yak Shaving in America.
Altreus Maddingue: I vote boat
Su-Shee Altreus: also, transsiberian railway.
Altreus options
Su-Shee Maddingue: god a Chinggis Khan Airport.. amazing :)
Su-Shee Altreus: only 10 days or so from berlin..
DrForr By pack train, of course.
Altreus how far by foot?
DrForr KHAAAAAAaaaaaaaaan!(s.)
DrForr Doesn't have quite the ring of JOHN HARRRRIISSSOOOOOOOOoooon... though. But what wouldn.
DrForr Huh? No. Just trying to figure out what form of conveyance would take 10 days to get from Berlin to whatever the capital of Mongolia is.
Su-Shee Altreus: tell me what water you would put the boat in between berlin and mongolia.. ;)
DrForr Ulan Bator.
Maddingue also, Mongolia is landlocked between Russia and China
Su-Shee DrForr: trans-siberian railway, it's actually quite cheap. :) but it _really_ takes roughly 10 days.
DrForr Oh, right, it's on *that* side.
DrForr yeah, that makes sense.
Channel #perl
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Short is Beautiful

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laouji what's a good smtp/mime mail module with few dependencies?
laouji Email::Sender seems to have Moo in it and all kinds of stuff I don't really need
rindolf laouji: why do you worry about dependencies?
laouji I guess I don't have to worry about them. I was just wondering if there was something lighter.
huf Moo is already light as hell
laouji ok lol
huf if you want something even lighter, see M :) https://metacpan.org/module/M
laouji beautiful
huf or Mo
laouji ok I will just use Email::Sender
huf although Mo is quite fat compared to M :)
DrForr There's now just 'M'... *that*'s gonna be simple to search for.
huf DrForr: there's still no .pm
huf use ;
rindolf huf: what's the "use;"?
huf rindolf: fewer deps! more lightweight!
rindolf Maybe require ''; will work.
rindolf huf: heh.
huf this one doesnt even need perl!
huf it "works" equally well with a tea towel
* rindolf writes a /bin/cat script.
huf sed 1d is better
DrForr Didn't we already do that for PPT?
DrForr Or is that just me showing my cynicism...
DrForr You could f*ck with people's heads and require a non-breaking space before the semicolon to make '.pm' work :)
Channel #perl
Network Freenode

World War 3

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Su-Shee aaah. an hour of hiking in the late summer/early autumn weather makes everything better...
tadzik I deny the notion that it may be autumn already
Su-Shee tadzik: damn, I haven't even packed my stuff yet for the invasion..
Su-Shee god what am I going to wear..
tadzik a uniform, duh
Su-Shee YEAH WHAT COLOR MAN.. black or grey or green...
DrForr Oo, a woman in uniform.
tadzik 1st sep. problems
Su-Shee hm, well I look very good in army green..
Su-Shee tadzik: will you greet me at the border? ;)
tadzik Su-Shee: our cavalry is waiting for your tanks ;)
Su-Shee tadzik: I'm not riding a tank.. ugly. noisy.
tm604 I'm sure there are fluoro electric ones by now
Su-Shee tm604: that doesn't forfill german-polish WW2 requirements. ;)
Su-Shee tadzik: sometimes I wonder if some war game simulations still exist in some dark cellar in some old ministry in germany or poland..
tadzik Su-Shee: in germany? Surely ;)
huf ww, pff.. we've been on www since 1996!
Su-Shee huf: so, did we miss WWW3 then?
Altreus 3.1
huf miss? she's a girl?
Su-Shee "War for Workgroups"
tadzik haha
Su-Shee or, "Windows for War". ;)
huf world wide war
Su-Shee that's what I was going for with WWW3
Su-Shee world wide war would be number 3 after world war two. ;)
huf no wonder the dod's website is www.defense.gov :)
Channel #perl
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The God Object

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mst the problem is Ovid tends to compose dozens of roles into classes for no reason I've ever been able to work out
popl maybe he's just being complete?
mst no
mst otherwise I wouldn't be criticising it
popl ok
mst he's fallen into what I refer to as the PantheonObject anti-pattern
mst i.e. breaking a GodObject up into a dozen roles
popl haha
popl mst: when are you writing your book? :P
Su-Shee if a god object is broken into a dozen roles, surely they're disciple roles...
popl Su-Shee++
popl Su-Shee: I think you just caused a rift in the Church.
Altreus if you instantiate a God object what happens to the rest of society
Su-Shee Altreus: well Luther and Calvin start refactoring...
anno Luther and Hobbes
popl hurr
popl sometimes we are so esoteric it is actually painful :P
Su-Shee well ok, first Henry VIII publishes a mean spirited book about design pattern and splits from the one true Object.
Su-Shee then Calvin and Luther start refactoring.
thrig popl: it's no Voynich manuscript
LWA well, then the refactoring was done by wycliff, luther, calvin, zwingli?
Su-Shee LWA: damn, forgot zwingli.
mauke sounds chinese
uri_ mst: i will leave the bloviating to you! :)
popl Henry VIII's patterns all involved removing encapsulation
anno and hus. you need hus
popl thrig: nothing ever is
Su-Shee popl: mostly, he removed wives ;)
huf unless you're vegetarian, in which case you dont have much use for hus
Su-Shee you're confusing it with jus. ;)
popl LWA: wyclef?
mst zwingli sounds like it should be what the third non-alpha character on a variable should be
mst $ # sigil
mst $^ # twigil
mst $^? # zwingli
Su-Shee mst: sigil, twigil, zwingil.
LWA popl: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wycliffe
huf no not -il
huf -li
popl LWA: yeah I know :)
huf too few words end in -li :)
popl LWA: Bad joke. :(
Su-Shee huf: IN YOUR LANGUAGE MAYBE
popl LWA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyclef_Jean
mauke chili
huf Su-Shee: i meant in english
Su-Shee huf: what the dutch have with their -je, the swiss have with -li
huf Su-Shee: _i_ say google as gugli :)
Su-Shee huf: english schmenglish(li)
popl huf: weirdo
mauke huf: that's adorabli
popl mauke++
huf maukele :)
popl maukelele?
LWA mauke: this is silli
huf everyone gets mangled.
dispersed silli is a fish
Su-Shee huf: we've decided last year in the office to pronounce "Kindle" swabian-german. it sounds so much better.
huf oh yeah, kindle is definitely kindli
Su-Shee hufli, maukli, popli.
popl \o/
huf huffancs is more common
dispersed peril!
dispersed ... oops
dispersed perli i meant
mauke perl -li
anno 230 matches for /li$/
dispersed i have noticed that saying a piece of software is a "4000 line perl script" with the perl sounding like 'peril' is a really convincing argument
Su-Shee send a pingli, vasily!
Su-Shee gentli.
popl gentlefolk, surely
dispersed sureli
Su-Shee popl: gentlifolk.
popl dispersed: Don't call me Shirley
Su-Shee great now I have swiss german in my head.
popl Su-Shee: is that a cheese?
Su-Shee and god do I wish anybody would understand Asterix puns because.. man Asterix in Switzerland is just amazing.
dispersed u_n o_o ... smili
popl I heard in Switzerland that all the clocks are made from chocolate.
popl *heard that
hoverboard wut
Altreus clockolate
popl and the streets are made of cheese
hoverboard lol @ grossly misinformed
anno from cuckoos
Su-Shee popl: common misunderstanding. because all swiss cheese are round, they made all clocks round too. the chocolate is actually a rebellious reaction to that because it's rectangular.
popl and there are no cats in Switzerland
hoverboard they just don't survive there?
Su-Shee also, the swiss get very cranky when they don't get chocolate on time. that's why the swiss metro/trains etc are so famously punctual.
popl cats don't eat cheese
Su-Shee of course they do.
anno they bait their breath with cheese
Su-Shee I should get a job teaching foreign cultures.
popl well, maybe you're right
anno to catch mice
popl by transitivity
popl mice eat cheese, cats eat mice, ergo cats eat cheese
Su-Shee my cat ate cheese.
popl Su-Shee: your cat likes to cut out the middle-mouse
Channel #perl
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Older and Wiser

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ZoffixWork mst, yeah I asked; thrig unbanned me. I know when I got that ban I was misbehaving badly and were being rude to you. So I apologize for that. Now I am older and wiser.
* rindolf is now older and more foolish.
rindolf ZoffixWork: beware from accumulating too much wisdom .
rindolf ZoffixWork: it's not wise to be too wise.
rindolf ;-)
mst ZoffixWork: eh, I don't give a fuck about your being rude to -me-, my personality does pretty much invite it most days
mst ZoffixWork: as far the rest ... well, I'm older. wiser I guess we can figure out as we go along :)
rindolf mst++ # Humility.
Channel #perl
Network Freenode

Cake Across Europe

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Su-Shee brain broken. I just had to think for three minutes how to create a branch in git. need chocolate.
DrForr Same here.
pink_mist not coffee?
Su-Shee coffee too. good idea.
DrForr o/' Code monkey get up get coffee... o/'
Su-Shee I think I also need a huge german schnitzel today.
Botje Su-Shee: I AM BRINGING THREE HUGE PIES TO THE OFFICE TODAY!
Su-Shee Botje: WRONG
Su-Shee Botje: YOU BRING TWO TO YOUR OFFICE AND ONE TO ME.
Botje HOW CAN IT BE WRONG IF IT'S SO TASTY
Su-Shee Botje: BECAUSE YOU COUNTED WRONG
Botje IT'S ONLY FOUR HOURS OF FLYING. YOU CAN STILL GET HERE IN TIME.
Su-Shee seriously, bruxelles - berlin 4 hours?
Botje probably less.
Botje a hell of a lot less, actually.
Su-Shee unless they moved it behind moskow or so..
Botje 1h25
Botje it sure felt like four hours when we went, hmmm.
Botje EVEN BETTERER! CAKE TIME IS AT 12:30!
Botje LEAVE NOW BE THERE ON TIME
Su-Shee yes, because it's one and a half hour flight and additional 4 hours getting there, waiting, checking in, getting out.. ;)
popl I have cake right here with me. Cake time is whenever I want it to be.
Botje if you don't take luggage it's quite fast
Botje ten minuts check in, ten minutes security, run to gate, board, land, take taxi, have cake.
Su-Shee why can't flying be as simple and fast as boarding a train...
popl haha
Botje it used to be :)
popl Trains aren't simple anymore in the US. :(
Su-Shee Botje: yeah, I remember vaguely.
popl Now we have the TSA.
Botje Su-Shee: ah, maybe brussels-berlin by train is four hours.
Channel #perl
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Rules of the #perl Channels

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rindolf «The first rule of the #perl channels: you don't talk about non-Freenode #perl channels. The second rule of the #perl channels: "#perl" always refers to Freenode's #perl.»
Nei ??
rindolf Nei: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=rules%20of%20the%20fight%20club - see this . I haven't watched the film , just read that quote.
DrForr You haven't watched /Fight Club/?...
rindolf DrForr: the first rule of watching /Fight Club/ is you never say that you watched /Fight Club/ . ;-)
breadwarden well, what else would you use a club for?
* rindolf uses the club to club breadwarden .
rindolf /Club Fight Club/
vague Is that a club for club fight or a club to club a fight club?
bhuddah a club where the clubbers club fight clubs
rindolf DrForr: I recently finished watching the first /Matrix/ film, and not sure I really liked it, but was glad I did because it's a film that everyone expects you to have watched.
rindolf Haifa Linux Clubbing.
DrForr It hasn't aged well in these days of CGI and Avatar, I'm afraid.
rindolf DrForr: /The Matrix/ ?
DrForr Yeah.
rindolf DrForr: hmm... well, I found the quality of the effects there pretty good, but didn't like the movie in general.
rindolf DrForr: at least I didn't feel 100% unable to continue watching it.
rindolf Like has happened with some other books or films.
DrForr Well, if the books have Stephenie Meyer's name anyhwere on them that's a natural reaction.
rindolf DrForr: I haven't read Stephenie Meyer.
DrForr (as is storming out of the theater and vociferously demanding your money back, *along* with the wasted portion of your life, *along* with the bits of your soul that got left behind.)
rindolf DrForr: http://www.amazon.com/xUnit-Test-Patterns-Refactoring-Code/dp/0131495054 - this is a book I gave up on twice, and think is redundant.
rindolf DrForr: heh.
rindolf DrForr++
DrForr I couldn't even make it through 20 minutes of Twilight with Rifftrax' help.
rindolf DrForr: and I recall forcing myself to finish The Lord of The Rings (the book) and not remembering anything about it.
DrForr It was like watching The X Files, with even *less* chemistry between the leads.
rindolf DrForr: hmm.. haven't watched The X Files
anno put down a 1000-pager on page 950 to make a point
DrForr See, that implies that someone outside the age of 15-17 actually *watched* the movie. Which is scary enough as it is. I *saw* the crowd at the last Twilight premiere.
rindolf I haven't watched Twilight, but I saw a crossover parody of it, Buffy, Karate Kid and Harry Potter on YouTube that I found hilarious.
DrForr http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsT0wD6pmo4 # All you need to see.
rindolf DrForr: quite aweful indeed.
rindolf DrForr: /A Suitable Boy/ was a very long book, but it wasn't boring it all. I enjoyed almost all of it.
Channel #perl
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Tagline What you wish you would have to experience.

AJAX URLs

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Su-Shee hm, do browsers treat URLs encoded/unencoded with foo/bar/baz#fumpp versus foo/bar/baz%23fumpp differently? (aka in-page links)?
huf they should
Su-Shee dammit.
huf 's the point of urlencoding
Su-Shee yeah, I really wasn't sure, I haven't used in-page links for at least a decade or so.
Nei # doesnt get send to the server
rindolf Now there's also them AJAX URLs #!op/sub-op/foo-12353ab343
Nei unless via JS
huf "now"
huf you mean years ago before js got the history api
rindolf huf: maybe - I still see them sometimes.
huf but yeah, lots of crap still does the #! thing
Nei "now" everyone is using the history api to fake real looking urls that could be sent to the server right
rindolf Google Groups I'm looking at you.
huf Nei: yeah. so great. :(
huf "our websites are huge and slow and clunky. i know, let's add MORE crap"
Nei hihihi
Nei I share the room with a php dev and he loves his shit and tells me all those horror stories how they implement this caching and another caching to speed things up
Su-Shee huf: no, I'm really honestly using real in-page links :)
huf at least this way we get to spend cpu cycles on *gasp* transitions!
huf Su-Shee: yeah, those are fine and cool
Nei and repllace everything with ajax and in-page div replacement so it doesnt feel sluggish
Su-Shee huf: not when they get encoded apparently.. :)
huf Nei: and somehow it's still not as fast as a nice clean simple website built with html4 and no css. just the content, cleanly. no crap.
huf Su-Shee: write some js to decode it and ajax and ... oh god
Nei at least php auto-gzips for you
huf unless it segfaults :D
huf (guess what we spent our time with yesterday...)
Channel #perl
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Tagline How have the wise men helped with their ruling?

Information Overload

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* GumbyPAN CPAN Upload: Tinkerforge-2.0.1 by ISHRAQ http://metacpan.org/release/ISHRAQ/Tinkerforge-2.0.1
rindolf https://metacpan.org/pod/release/ISHRAQ/Tinkerforge-2.0.1/lib/Tinkerforge.pm - WTF is tinkerforge? :-(
Botje who knows
Altreus mr google
pink_mist http://www.tinkerforge.com/en/home/what_is_tinkerforge/
rindolf Ah, I think I understand.
EmbargEr pink_mist: damn, it took 10 minutes to find out who and why sent me this "tinkerforge" link. I looked through all my jabber, icq and skype conversation and found nothing!
pink_mist EmbargEr: heh :P blame rindolf :P
EmbargEr I blame my brain
Altreus EmbargEr: that's the danger of just clicking things
EmbargEr Altreus: exactly
rindolf EmbargEr: maybe you're suffering (like me) from information overload.
rindolf EmbargEr: which according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_overload#Early_history the author of Ecclesiastes (~300 BC) complained about as well.
rindolf “There's nothing new under the sun.”
EmbargEr well...
pink_mist argh, MORE INFORMATION! thanks rindolf :P
rindolf pink_mist: it's information about information overload.
rindolf pink_mist: meta-information overload.
pink_mist :P
Channel #perl
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Tagline Knowing that I know too much is too much knoweldge

Scaring Users Off

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Su-Shee I hate this "oh shit this isn't really properly normalized" - more and more tables - "what am I doing here?" - bounce back, reduce number of tables to something sensible - is there a shortcut? ;)
Altreus MONGO
* Altreus hides
Su-Shee Altreus: you know if you don't play nice we make you stay in #php and never allow you to do any perl anymore ;)
Altreus I don't think I'm allowed in there
Su-Shee #php, ##php..
Su-Shee ###php
Altreus php isn't allowed an official channel
jkg ###webscale
Altreus My new phone is so responsive I hate using my laptop now :(
DrForr #php_into_the_ground
Su-Shee Altreus: because.. the laptop is... ?
siamsara table based
user_1879 hello
* siamsara laughs out loud at his own jokes
rindolf user_1879: hi.
DrForr Afternoon.
user_1879 exit
pink_mist rindolf: you scared him away!
siamsara rindolf++ # scaring users off
rindolf siamsara: :-)
rindolf siamsara++ # Good joke.
rindolf siamsara: no users are good users.
rindolf Well, I mean «no users» -> «good users» not For each user -> user is not good.
pink_mist yes, the norwegian users are all good users :P
siamsara not like us users
pink_mist or even my users
rindolf Heh.
rindolf What shall be users be?
rindolf Will there be users?
DrForr users, good god, what are they good for.
Botje absolutely nothing!
Altreus bug testing
Channel #perl
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rindolf Altreus: it's live now. Thanks! http://is.gd/HdVT69
Altreus :)!
rindolf Altreus: heh.
rindolf Altreus: is the "!" a kind of beard?
Altreus Well no but it could be
Altreus It just means "very"
Altreus as with all exclamations
rindolf ¡!
rindolf ¿?
JarJarBinks that's a handlebar moustace
JarJarBinks ¡!
Altreus that is just "very ¡"
pink_mist Altreus: I thought that was what :D was for =)
Altreus Naw
Altreus That's a different expression, not just more of the same
Altreus :)! is :) but more so
pink_mist ah I see
Altreus Also allows for :D!
jkg is ":) :)" more or less than a :)! ?
Altreus ¯\(._.)/¯
Altreus I don't have that in my repertoire
Altreus :)! is :) * :) - 1 * :) - 2 ... 1
Altreus but :) :) is 2:)
Altreus so... more FSVO :)
Altreus less for the others
Channel #perl
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An SMS about the fax…

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LeoNerd rindolf: Can you send me an RT bug on that? NaFTP, requesting the REST command and IPv6 support
rindolf LeoNerd: OK.
rindolf LeoNerd: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=95574
LeoNerd You do know these things are emailed to me, and so you don't need to highlight my attention on IRC right? :)
Botje hey LeoNerd, you should've received a mail about that ticket you wanted!
* LeoNerd ends Botje an SMS to remind him about the fax containing my reply to his telex
Botje please don't end me, it was just a joke
corgifex tweet him a link to your facebook post containing a screenshot of your tumblr
jkg you _could_ mention it on G+, but only google employees would see it
corgifex inb4 vine
pink_mist make a youtube video of you sending the tweet
corgifex selfie instagram
huf whisper it into a beer and then pop round to leonerd's and give it to him personally
LeoNerd Oooh that would work :)
huf ha!
huf at least one could "pop 'round"
huf i dont think that's legal outside britain
huf perhaps in the more colonier former colonies.
corgifex post it on stackoverflow, link it on /r/LeoNerd
huf why is there no /r/leonerd?
corgifex dunno, report a bug
Botje you should wait for the future to resolve.
Channel #perl
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2014’s 4th of July’s #perl Green Tea Party

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Su-Shee hm, was there a time datatype for duration in postgres? or am I just wishful thinking?
_DrForr Su-Shee: 'interval'?
rindolf Radditz: nice. :-)
rindolf _DrForr++ # Helping Su-Shee
Su-Shee _DrForr: lemme look. merci.
rindolf _DrForr: why do you have a leading underscore now?
_DrForr At least in 9.1.
* rindolf eats the underscore.
Su-Shee _DrForr: I have the latest and shiniest postgres.
_DrForr Haven't found and /killed my clone, I guess.
popl You'll spoil your dinner.
rindolf It was a good underscore. Minty with a hint of cranberries.
rindolf _DrForr: ah. /msg NickServ HELP GHOST?
Su-Shee oh genius. interval hour to minute is exactly what I need.
popl interval is awesome
rindolf PostgreSQL++
Su-Shee my favorite: allballs ;)
rindolf Underscores are the most nutritious punctuation. But you also need to eat letters, digits and whitespace for a balanced diet.
rindolf ;-)
Altreus r 2 hours ago you said you were going to sleep
Altreus rindolf: *
LeoNerd I much prefer scheme's-name-style
rindolf And both uppercase and lowercase letters are important.
anno humor!
Su-Shee LeoNerd: See my -? ;)
LeoNerd Su-Shee: ooooh... I hadn't thought of that. Yes :)
rindolf Altreus: I went to sleep and woke up with some great ideas for my new screenplay.
Altreus rindolf: do you normally sleep in short periods?
Su-Shee LeoNerd: sadly, doesn't work most of the time elsewhere. most login names for example don't allow -
Altreus rindolf: or was it just a nap
Su-Shee LeoNerd: half of the perlbot refuse me because of it too. ;)
rindolf Altreus, anno : also see http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=sharp-xkcd-programming-languages-sex-talk .
anno yeah, sure
rindolf Altreus: just a nap - lately I've been hypomanic so I sleep less at once.
rindolf Altreus: and wake up early.
rindolf Altreus: I also have many small meals.
popl rindolf: I have found that having a shitty job helps me regulate my depression.
rindolf popl: ah, OK.
rindolf popl: I'd like to get a job where I interact with people a lot.
rindolf popl: like a shop vendor.
rindolf popl: so far many of these places asked me for my age, and I'm 1977-born.
rindolf And* a Technion graduate in EE.
rindolf So people may think i'm overqualified.
Su-Shee huf! where are you! HELP!
rindolf But there are no small jobs - only small workers.
_DrForr More efficient, you can pack more into a small space.
popl I've seen some very large workers.
rindolf popl: heh.
rindolf popl: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/Emma-Watson-applying-for-a-software-dev-job/ - paraphrasing on what I wrote here.
rindolf popl: I didn't mean small in physical size - just "Rosh qatan" and with a big ego.
rindolf perlbot: rosh gadol
rindolf perlbot: search for rosh
rindolf perlbot: Rosh Gadol is http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2004/12/06.html - literally "Big Head" or "Small Head", Hebrew slang for taking initiative, and being awesome at your job or responsibilities regardless of how small they are.
perlbot rindolf: Stored Rosh Gadol is http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2004/12/06.html - literally "Big Head" or "Small Head", Hebrew slang for taking initiative, and being awesome at your job or responsibilities regardless of how small they are.
rindolf perlbot: learn Rosh Qatan is [fact Rosh Gadol]
perlbot rindolf: Stored Rosh Qatan is [fact Rosh Gadol] as
rindolf perlbot: rosh qatan
perlbot rindolf: No factoid found. Did you mean one of these: [Rosh Gadol]
rindolf pink_mist: can you help?
rindolf perlbot: alias
perlbot rindolf: use the new mkalias command: mkalias foo <- bar
rindolf We need aliases for both rosh qatan and rosh katan
Su-Shee no, we don't.
Su-Shee or do they indicate perl stuff?
rindolf In The Gilmore Girls ( ♥! ), Lorelai started off as a cleaner of that inn, and ended up running that place.
rindolf Su-Shee: it is related to Perl.
Su-Shee no, it's not.
rindolf Su-Shee: and it has nothing to do with sex/celebrities/etc.
Su-Shee yes and you can still stop dropping all your private shit into the bot.
_DrForr No, it's a term from a blog about software. It's as related to perl as 'scrum' is.
rindolf Su-Shee: why do you think that perlbot should be about 100% perl stuff?
rindolf On irc.perl.org purl has stuff from Monty Python.
Su-Shee rindolf: the name "perl" bot might be an indicator. and we're not on irc.perl.org and purl is purl.
rindolf _DrForr++
_DrForr Historical accident.
rindolf Su-Shee: well, we discussed Rosh Gadol/Qatan in the past here.
rindolf Su-Shee: it's part of #perl's culture.
Su-Shee nice try. you're the only one who's dropping his culture into the bot. how about making your own bot for it.
_DrForr I'm guessing you mean 'you' there.
rindolf Su-Shee: perlbot is the bot of #perl, #perlcafe, and related channels - not of the perl 5 programming language.
_DrForr So you're now the arbiter, I see.
rindolf _DrForr: what?
rindolf perlbot: define arbiter
perlbot rindolf: arbiter n 1: someone with the power to settle matters at will; "she was the final arbiter on all matters of fashion" [syn: {arbiter}, {supreme authority}] 2: someone chosen to judge and decide a disputed issue; "the critic was considered to be an arbiter of modern literature"; "the arbitrator's authority derived from the consent of the disputants";... [Output truncated. Use `more` to read more]
rindolf Ah, hah.
rindolf _DrForr: well, it's ultimately up to thrig to decide.
Su-Shee oh if we take thrig's sense of humor as a measurement I see interesting times and judgements ahead.. ;)
rindolf _DrForr: or Su-Shee and I can try to convince one another of our righteousness using THERMO-NUCLEAR-WAR!
jkg LOVELY WEATHER TODAY.
rindolf jkg: LOVELIEST!
_DrForr Would you like to play a game?
rindolf jkg: THERE IS NO JUSTICE! THERE'S ONLY ME!!!
jkg how about a nice game of chess?
rindolf _DrForr: is it a quote from WarGames?
_DrForr Finally enlightenment strikes.
rindolf jkg: "A battle of wits? To the death?! I accept!!"
jkg I think you switched movies :)
rindolf jkg: seamlessly.
Su-Shee if I'm going to war over this, I will win without a battle.
rindolf Oooooh... cheater.
rindolf Gotta love a girl who bends the rules - http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=david-vs-goliath--hacker .
rindolf Su-Shee: so how are you going to win without a battle? Will you poison my water?
Su-Shee I never cheat. I don't need to. Because you will nicely fall into your own sword without me even moving a finger. and we're almost there.
Su-Shee and I will have warned you and I will have made transparent how this works and you will not believe it and yet it will be happening.
rindolf Ooohhh... free man destroying himself.
jkg evil mastermind 101: never tell your adversaries that you're close to achieving your goals.
rindolf jkg: heh.
rindolf jkg++
_DrForr jkg: But come on, the cliche'd Bond villain speech is a *classic*.
Su-Shee jkg: wrong. tell them. often. they don't believe you anyways.
rindolf Su-Shee++
rindolf perlbot: thanks
perlbot rindolf: If you want to thank us, help out by sending some money (even just a little) to the Perl Foundation to help with perl5 development - https://secure.donor.com/pf012/give
rindolf cyber37_guest: ^^^
jkg heh
rindolf cyber37_guest: also feel free to lurk here and learn more or ask more questions.
rindolf cyber37_guest: time >>> money.
rindolf perlbot: time
perlbot rindolf: ($sec,$min,$hour,$mday,$mon,$year,$wday,$yday,$isdst)=localtime(time); OR Modules: Time::Piece, Time::Format, Time::Tiny, etc.
LeoNerd "time. Don't talk to me about time. It's sooooo depressing"
rindolf If only we had cryptotime - BitDuration.
rindolf And no - I don't mean timestamps.
rindolf LeoNerd: heh.
Su-Shee so. now I wrote 27 tables and didn't try one of them and now I'm going to shove them all into the database with a makefile which of course will explode .. because.. I didn't try any of them.
phx sounds like fun
Su-Shee mostly like "stupid"
rindolf Su-Shee: good luck.
rindolf Hubris!
LeoNerd Tests are overrated
rindolf Well, a good amount of hubris is useful in moderation.
LeoNerd If it breaks, your users will let you know
rindolf LeoNerd: heh.
LeoNerd .oO( mine do ;) )
rindolf We wouldn't have had modern tech without Hubris.
rindolf Or without neophilia.
Su-Shee LeoNerd: I have tests actually. thanks to theory's amazing pgtap/mytap.
jkg the three virtues of a great programmer: laziness, hubris and necrophilia
_DrForr Always mount a scratch database.
Su-Shee LeoNerd: haven't adjusted them to the new stuff yet because I can't be bothered to do real TDD ;)
rindolf jkg: necrophilia?
jkg haha
jkg I just realised, I completely misread you.
jkg I did think it was a bit weird...
rindolf jkg: yes, neophilia - love of novelty.
rindolf jkg: possibly being a hipster.
jkg sure, I know the word - I just misread and thought you'd dialled the weirdness up another notch ;)
rindolf Both neophilia and hubris should be done in moderation.
rindolf well, arguably a necrophil is someone who uses antiquated stuff.
rindolf Like Thé Symbul in http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Star-Trek/We-the-Living-Dead/ .
* Zoffix saves jkg's quote for use later out of context :)
jkg Zoffix: you're welcome, I guess :)
rindolf Her character was inspired by a very powerful sorceress in the D&D Forgotten Realms world, but in the story, she only has very primitive "superpowers", and is annoyed by always being considered the opposite.
rindolf And still she is considered one of the most influential Qs.
rindolf Zoffix: meow.
Zoffix \o
rindolf Zoffix: how is the 4th of July treating you canuks?
Zoffix Oh... Happy 4th of July, all you guys down below :)
rindolf Zoffix: heh.
Zoffix rindolf, business as usual. Except with the US company we deal with being closed, I guess all the customers will be calling me today, instead of them :(
rindolf Zoffix: what time is it there?
Zoffix 6:12am
rindolf Zoffix: ah, I see. :-(
rindolf Zoffix: will you get paid extra?
rindolf Zoffix: ah, good time.
Zoffix For what?
rindolf Zoffix: how's the weather?
rindolf Zoffix: for hanlding all their calls?
Zoffix no
rindolf Zoffix: I'm trying to find a company to sponsor my summer trip to Europe.
Zoffix heh
rindolf Zoffix: I'm willing to be their cheerleader for the duration of the trip.
huf Su-Shee: hmm/
huf ?
Su-Shee huf: too late. ;)
* rindolf contemplates marrying a chick called Fish and becoming the Fish-Fish family.
rindolf There are some Miss Fish of English descent who are not Jewish, including some in .us.
LinuxGuy Any ddoser here
rindolf LinuxGuy: what?
rindolf LinuxGuy: no nefarious activity.
rindolf LinuxGuy: and don't PM me.
rindolf LinuxGuy: DDoS is wrong.
LinuxGuy yeah but its right if it perform for good cause
LinuxGuy i can pay for attack
popl LinuxGuy: Wrong channel.
popl LinuxGuy: Go away.
* LinuxGuy (Rock@119.159.20.35) has left
Zoffix *Wrong network
jkg that was surprisingly effective.
Zoffix Also... wtf my LShift+* don't work :(
BinGOs >:)
popl bullshit losers
popl some people make me want to beat them with a rake
BinGOs fllthy infidel
Su-Shee I have no problems whatsoever with a ddos as a political thing. paying for it is stretching it though.
* icke (~anno@p5DDB0683.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined
BinGOs to paraphrase Asimov "DDoS is the last resort of the incompetent"
popl DDoS is stupid.
Su-Shee popl: maybe. I still don't have a problem with it as a political act. I might find blockades, boycotts or barricades equally stupid.
BinGOs we had to spend money on anti-ddos kit because of idiots.
Zoffix Were you ddosed by the guys who sold you the anti-ddos kit? :)
jkg that's an excellent marketing strategy.
Zoffix heh yeah, sounds like a good business opportunity.
popl Great until the court hearing.
BinGOs they also stop portscans and what-not.
BinGOs which was the main reason for getting them.
popl $12 wrench beats $2000 anti-DDoS software.
BinGOs they are network bridges really.
Zoffix popl, that's why you should find someone online to ddos for you, for payment.
Zoffix Oh, wait! That's what LinuxGuy was doing! See? We figured out. LinuxGuy is the guy who sold BinGOs anti-ddos kit :D
popl Your logic is exceedingly Canadian.
Su-Shee I'm familar with deductive and inductive logic and all that.. but canadian..
Zoffix popl, yes, Canadian logic is invariably brilliant :P
Zoffix Also, wtf are you gonna do with a $12 wrench?
popl syrupy
popl Zoffix: What would you do with a $12 wrench.
popl s/\./\?/
Zoffix popl, sell it for $20
rindolf Ah, LinuxGuy went away.
rindolf Zoffix: <Zoffix> Oh, wait! That's what LinuxGuy was doing! See? We figured out. LinuxGuy is the guy who sold BinGOs anti-ddos kit :D ==> heh! Zoffix++
rindolf This channel is very funny today.
rindolf Zoffix: conspiracy theories FTW!
rindolf Stop! Reddit time.
dont-panic lol... Did he really think someone was going to do some ddosin' for him?
dont-panic go play with ping and send exceedingly large and canadian packets
locsmif Anti-ddos? How does that work if it's a packet storm unless you can prune that at the ISP?
Altreus load balancing!
anno ddefense
jkg you just need to set up flow of the same frequency and amplitude, half a phase out of sync.
Channel #perl
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MS Comic Chat on Windows 8

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Yaakov WARNING: MS Comic Chat runs swimmingly under Windows 8.
rindolf Yaakov: heh.
Yaakov # Appears as Yaakov
* davercc (~user@d19-88.rb2.gh.centurytel.net) has joined
rindolf Yaakov: ah, comic chat.
Yaakov I like Windows 8.1 as much as I have ever liked Windows. I don't want ot use it, but...
rindolf Yaakov: is it still maintained?
Yaakov It is abandonware but you can get it.
thrig odd, I found Windows 8 about the first usable version
Yaakov I just tested it, and it works like a champ.
rindolf I thought you meant MS Comics Sans.
rindolf Yaakov: how are you? How's the wife and kids too?
Yaakov thrig: Windows 3.11, Windows NT, Windows 95 C, Windows XP SP1, Windows 8.1 is my list.
Yaakov rindolf: Well, well. Thanks.
Yaakov Also, Windows Phone 8.1
Yaakov But, I am not a Windows user any more.
spookah i can't stand 8.1 =\
rindolf Yaakov: did you donate some of your patented GREAT HUGE LOVE™ for needy people recently? ;-)
Yaakov Though I have machines that run it, and a Windows 8.1 phone.
Yaakov I haven't declaimed it in this channel. But it must be spontaneous to be real, so it will have to wait until it happens "by itseI LOVE YOU ALL WITH A GREAT HUGE LOVE
Yaakov Oh. There.
rindolf Yaakov: :-)
rindolf Yaakov: I LOVE YOU WITH MY OWN GREAT HUGE LOVE TOO.
rindolf Spread the LOVE!
rindolf Spread the GREAT HUGE LOVE!
rindolf Share and enjoy the great huge love.
Channel #perl
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Tagline Can’t get enough of Yaakov’s GREAT HUGE LOVE