Documentation for BL buu: do you have a working manual of BL? s/working/up-to-date/ It's kind of sort of up to date he means NO I've got some docs! buu: do you have a functional spec? An architecture document? An interface whitepaper? A developer's guide? A user manual? A "The BL-Book" and "BL - The Program"? rindolf: no, no, no no and no #perl Freenode Discussing the merits of documenting one's pet languages on #perl Did anybody see my newline at Freenode's #perl channel. sleeper: why are people obsessed with one-liners? It takes 3 lines - OMG what a disaster! rindolf: newline prices went up again Botje: I buy my newlines in the black market Botje: again? drat. reports rindolf to the newline police Botje: I know about an... (underground) operation going on to pirate newlines. Botje: I bribed a few cops in the newline police, but nice try. Botje: Some crazy guys are trying to free newlines from patents! They want to rid the market! gets called up to serve in the newline jury I think we need to start a campaign to lift all restrictions off newlines. rindolf: La Resistance lives on!\n I already stockpiled millions of newlines Botje: We can have the one-liners destroyed by sundown Not destroyed, but... TURNED INTO TWO-LINERS! Mwuhahaha! #perl Freenode The Cost of Newlines Verbing the verb on Freenode's #perl Stevie[FP] with a plunger. looks for the verb in that sentence i think you're missing a verb I think he's missing a brain. unless Stevie[FP] is a verb i don't know Stevie[FP]: v. see Stevie[FP] I am not a verb! you've been verbatized Stevie[FP]'s Chris62vw verbalized? Stevie[FP]: verbalized is a different thing. Stevie[FP]: it comes from "verbal". Verbified. Verbiated. Stevie[FP]: verbificated. verbed. Verberated. Stevie[FP]: verberation is overrated. #perl Freenode Verbing the Verb Human XML i hate xml..... <response to="BarnacleBob">indeed</response> mcrawfor: :-) mcrawfor++ # Nice joke ehm. ouch. rindolf: no! <postincrement comment="Nice joke">mcrawfor</postincrement> Botje: LOL. <postincrement comment="As you wish">Botje</postincrement> #perl Freenode Human XML /me (or I, you or we) is finding it amusing on Freenode's #perl. fart say "oops" __you: heh kick rindolf (rindolf, you're now being kicked by 435 people) __you need to go outside. __you: Who owns you? go outside are pwned by dazjorz is now known as we are having a useless off-topic conversation right now we: hahah is now known as __you decide this channel is now useless and decide to leave is now known as we are not amused and I are together simcop2387 is now known as _I_ need to tell __you something listen is now known as we need help think we are getting a bit sick of the shenanigans I'm so making a fortune out of it. want to be on bash.org #perl Freenode /me (or I, you or we) is finding it amusing Multilinguality Oh! I fixed it :D Yay :D spyro_boy: congrats! Thanks for your help, everyone. :) spyro_boy: now you should translate this script to OCaml, Haskell, Perl 6. rindolf, huh? spyro_boy: Smalltalk, C, C++, Visual Basic... rindolf, translate to what? spyro_boy: to all these programming languages. haha rindolf, yeah. Because a script in perl is Not Enough<tm>. spyro_boy: but see the Great Computer Language Shootout. rindolf, I tried learning C,C++, and Java, but I couldn't catch on. #perl Freenode Multilinguality Chuck Norris and Perl 6 wankit Perl 6, unlike most people, is able to breathe in the vacuum of space. In fact, anything else would damage its respiratory system. Because of this, whenever it's visiting Earth, it wears a respirator, which resembles a kickass beard. Heh heh. Are all of buubot's wankit factoids about Perl 6? He should have some about Chuck Norris, too. fictional factoids about a partially designed, partially implemented, partially wanted language. :) merlyn: yeah. Heh - those are all Chuck Norris quotes with s/Chuck/P6/ rindolf: It's written in Chuck Norris, right Chuck Norris writes code in Perl 6. Before Larry's done. And it works. merlyn: Chuck Norris wrote Perl 6 in a day but then destroyed all evidence with his bare hands, so no one will know his secrets. #perl Freenode Chuck Norris and Perl 6 Is a Life Ready for Prime Time? LeoNerd: I need to get a life. They can be quite useful, but they do have a crazy amount of dependencies.. And sometimes they can be a bit unstable - I think they're still beta-testing #perl Freenode Is a Life Ready for Prime Time #perl for Elisabeth Daveman: i use a ZED PEE EM to power my computer, its the ultimate YOU PEE ES throws an Elisabeth at Simcop Me catches the Elisabeth in mid-air. with an s, excellent choice :o Interception! Daveman: when my friend and I played Frisbee, we had an intra-tree move. pirates Elisabeth and seeds a torrent Which was unintended. Elisabeth: are you here? HAHAHAHHA SubStack++ wins at life. An Elisabeth for all! And all for an Elisabeth. #perl Freenode #perl for Elisabeth Books for Learning Perl what is a good book for getting up to speed with perl? learning perl! intermediate perl! the camel is the _only book_ :-P bats nachos silly :-( Alexi5: there's also Beginning Perl, which is available online. saw that coming You should learn Perl from "Learning Perl in 24 minutes Unleashed!" rindolf: ``Learning perl in 24 minutes Unleashed, in a nutshell for dummies'' is the one i have f00li5h: that's even better. #perl Freenode Books for Learning Perl Discussing Vintage Hypertext on Freenode's #perl Are you using Firefox? yeah... Interesting... Don't know. use a real browser... you know... like IE! runs IE 3 > * IE 2 > * gopher! firefox can actually do gopher URLs GNU info! feh. #perl Freenode Vintage Hypertext Free as in what? ofer0: what's up? rindolf, nothing much. what's with you? ofer0: I restored my fonts to my nouveau-enabled X server. What is nouveau? jagerman, "new" in French ? Yes, I know it's a word, but what is the nouveau rindolf is talking about? I have no idea. rindolf ? jagerman, ofer0: it's the free-as-in-speech Nvidia drivers. jagerman++ (Yes i know its a word). free as in freedom free as in Richard Stallman? free as in free Microsoft Windows Vista CDs lol vista-- "What do you mean? Windows XP isn't free?" -- My neighbour. ofer0: sounds familiar (when telling him that I can't format his hard-drive and re-install XP because he doesn't own a license) #perl Freenode Free as in what? The Only Programming Language This reminds me of a fun discussion I had with my co-worker. He had a Firefox window open with an ActiveState page and I read "Perl, PHP, Python, Tcl, XSLT". So he said: "Heresy! C is the only language." So I thought for a moment and said "Intercal is the only language." lol And then "Real men write in Intercal." "COME FROM" anyone? #perl Freenode The Only Programming Language Misleading Textbooks about Perl mortal5: you need to print the header. mortal5: print header() rindolf, ...I absolutely love it when my textbook leads me wrong.. mortal5: what is your textbook? "web wizards guide to perl and cgi" lol only the finest for the students at my university Hahaha That's awesome. Is this what we're teaching these days? Oh my. Blows the mind, doesn't it cfedde! somian: it does. I suppose that I'm commenting out of context. but why the mix and match. What mind? yours, with this .48 sends in CSI Las Vegas to clean up mortal5: what is your university? rindolf, I'm too ashamed to tell :p mortal5: heh. mortal5: is it bad? rindolf, no not really, we have a fairly well known CS department Just so long as it isn't SUNY@BUFFALO it's just the teacher I'm using, she's a total flake #perl Freenode Misleading Textbooks about Perl Perl, dongs and everything between on Freenode's #perl rating: Net-DNS-Check rated 4 stars by Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason Oooh! avar has rated a module. avar! WHAT ARE YOU DOING rating CPAN modules!?! Do you really think you are QUALIFIED to be doing that!?! ;-P dongs somian^{} laughs somian^{}: I'M A PROFESSIONAL PERL PROGRAMMER I know PERL But can u mAke teh weB with teh PERL!? avar: I know DONGS Earle_Martin: SHOW ME Earle_Martin: Don't you mean DONG foo? has a silly grin on his face as he descends the stairs to make some fresh coffee somian^{}: I maek teh web really well with PERL /DCC MATRIX avar Earle_Martin: IT'S SO LARGE AND HARD! avar: You think that's milk you're drinking? heh] I was wondering why it was so delicious "I can't believe it's not jizz" Take the red pill blue! I know PERL: Programmer's Elite Robotic Language goes back to work I wonder what would happen if Neo was colorblind and took the wrong pill. 10 DO ROBOT DANCE 20 GOTO 10 which doesn't involving discussing dongs in great detail, unfortunately avar: the real world sucks #perl Freenode Perl and Dongs on Freenode's #perl N-uple negative on Freenode's #perl mauke: so how does that "translate" into eng "eng"? I spe eng goo mauke: I spe eng wel I spe goo eng just a short question. besides personal preference is there any difference if you use if(! or unless(? sts: no. sts: they do the same thing. sts: pfft. Real Men(tm) use unless(!...) Botje: heh. lol unless(! makes sense. thanks Botje, I'll rather use this one. =D For me it's a readability thing - I express what seems more likely Botje: File::HomeDir used to have a triple or quadruple negative in one of its test files. unless(! $str !~ /(?!foo)/) Botje: heh whoa unless (!) makes no sense to me at all of course not. Botje: wow! it's still cool to confuse people with :] Heh.. Should just use !!! in there anyway:) it's 7 characters too many some people don't understand double negatives I don't want no complaints! xand: you mean don't not understand? We don't know nobody who don't want no double-negatives Botje: what does (?!foo) do? lol Botje: don't not misunderstand Botje: that always executes the block there's an argument that can be successfully made that "I don't want no complaints" doesn't necessarily work logically xand: oh, I don't not think I didn't not misunderstand you. mauke: I know. it just looks cool. and you want !($str !~ /.../) don't you?# so it might actually mean what people think they're meaning #perl Freenode N-uple negative on Freenode's #perl My operating system is better than yours on Freenode's #perl LINUX < WINDOWS XP Yaakov: Linux ">" x Inf Windows XP Yaakov: DOS > Linux Yaakov: CTSS > Linux Yaakov: TOPS-10 > Linux Multics > Linux Multics > * I think I'll stop. I think I'll /clear CP/M > * Kobaz: heh! Kobaz++ Heh. CP/M was teh sexy. How much more of an OS do you really need? I still have my Apple II sitting in the corner. #perl Freenode My Operating System is Better than Yours Freenode's #perl on the many types of Wheels. Mahmoud: what's up? rindolf, writing a CMS from scratch with perl.. really cool, making my own template engine Mahmoud: why??? Mahmoud: use TT2. Or whatever. rindolf, i dislike other CMS engines.. they are bloated and i don't trust them Mahmoud: TT2 is pure perl. looks for TT2 Mahmoud: a CMS doesn't stay simple forever. Mahmoud: and a CMS != Templating system. rindolf, the template engine is quite simple, it's similar to how SimpleMachines forum does its templates rindolf, just an external file with print 'foo'; commands Mahmoud, TT2 is very powerful Mahmoud, there are more templating systems, why not use any of the existing ones? Mahmoud: please don't re-invent square wheels. heh.. oval! likes hexagonal wheels very small octagon wheels aren't too bad. amnesiac: triangular wheels are the best! i like star shaped wheels :/ #perl Freenode On the Many Types of Wheels The Pyramid of Code Golf on Freenode's #perl LeoNerd: That was one of the first blobs of Java I wrote, it's allowed to be even more verbose and convoluted than Java normally is. ;P ferret: link? /las Cat.java ferret: an implementation of the UNIX "cat" program in Java?? Actually, specifically the GNU cat program, and only a subset thereof. ferret: oh. ferret: how many lines did it take? heads off to #codegolf and tries to convince them to allow java submissions rindolf: It's mostly argument parser. ferret: I once implemented a parser for a subset of the Bourne Shell args, in really hideous ANSI C. f00li5h: good luck. f00li5h: Java Golf... yeah, for sure! Java Golf would be longer than a non-Golfed Perl program. rindolf: this is true f00li5h: COBOL Golf! #perl Freenode The Pyramid of Code Golf Scary Perl Expertise on Freenode's #perl "struggling intern" at 129.162.1.31 pasted "Here it is.." (220 lines, 5.7K) at http://sial.org/pbot/25279 woohoo there it goes... strugglingintern: oh my god! strugglingintern: this code looks really bad. heh... strugglingintern: if ($records eq 0 ) - don't you want ($records == 0)? strugglingintern: do you have unit tests? strugglingintern: and you should factor it better. strugglingintern: and possibly use Template Toolkit or something. strugglingintern: and you may have some HTML-injection (or XSS) problems. rindolf: and probably SQL injection problems. Ani-_: indeed! :-/ strugglingintern: really, ask them to review that code when they get back. alright I appreciate it anyway strugglingintern: how long have you been programming perl? hah, about 3 months This isn't all my code ;) I'll look into it Thanks guys (and gals). strugglingintern: you're welcome. not my choice ;) it's my 3rd week here :) Amazing how much more experienced programmers can tell a code is bad from a quick glance. It's a bit scary. nothing amazing about it. It's called skill. :) yeah even I can tell it by a look It's not scary or amazing at all. It is called experience! rindolf: what do you find scary? rindolf: that experienced programmers can tell it? Or the code itself? I would disagree on the first one but agree on the later! :) Ani-_: no, that I'm so experienced. Ani-_: I hope I don't sound out as a snob. narcissism is fun I should get a life. Get a girlfriend, go to movies. Instead all I do is write Perl. And chat about writing Perl. a life, tried that, didn't mix with me #perl Freenode Scary Perl Expertise (Human) Language Fun on Freenode's #perl Let me wikipedia it. so now wikipedia is a verb? f00li5h: it's gonna enter the OED. f00li5h: in English every verb can be nounified and every noun can be verbed. f00li5h: google is now a verb too. rindolf: q{ just one second and I'll "computer" it up for you"} f00li5h: LOL. f00li5h++ f00li5hes jql I'm rindolfed finds it odd that irssi highlighted half of that word f00li5h: it's much harder to do it in Hebrew. computer is from the verb compute already jql: there's computerise though. jql: but to computer something is different than computing it COMPUTIFY! jql: I once thought that the study of Objectivity is Objectivism. "configurated" you shouldn't noun up a verb that's been nouned already And the study of Objectivism is Objectivistalism. heh And that study of that is Objectvisitalistalism. And to infinity it's Objectivist-elementalism! eval: object .((ism)x100) f00li5h: objectismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismism ismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismism ismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismi With apologies to the 4 people who ever spoke Latin correctly. I can't help but read that as smi smi smi me too jql: reminds me of Peter Pan. #perl Freenode (Human) Language Fun on Freenode's #perl How many clicks must a one man do, before he selects what he wants on Freenode's #perl. I use nedit, the only app with a quadruple-click feature WTF is quadruple-click??? %-/ double-click selects a word, triple-click selects a line, quadruple-click select the whole document. heh :) quintuple-click selects the whole harddisk hexuple-click selects the entire Intranet. And septapable-click selects the entire Internet How many for the multiverse? people, who uses what editor? octaple click selects the known universe and nonaple the rest too. arw: how long does it takes these clicks to run? I think it's super-exponential complexity. rindolf: no matter, the universe is finite :) rindolf: only problem is, the information about your clicking will never reach the entire universe as it expands ;) #perl Freenode How many clicks must a one man do, before he selects what he wants? The meaning of "I" on Freenode's #perl. huzzahs. His Perl books just arrived. reflexive, Which? apeiron: IP and PBP. A couple others are still in transit. reflexive, Nice. :) :) reflexive: what is IP? Intermediate Perl. reflexive: oh, OK. Intellectual Perl. Internet Perl. Invasive Perl Idiot Perl Interactive Perl. I, Perl. Implementing Pies mmm, pie Improbably Perl Ignoble Perl Probably Inverted kojiro: :-) Improper Perl Insidious Perl? ALL PERL IS IMPROPER API? In Soviet Russia all improper is Perl. APII. impudent perl no, you never count words like "is" Incoherent Perl ALL PERL IS INCOHERENT So true. #perl Freenode The Meaning of "I". Got the Slashdot? on Freenode's #perl. which is that ACME:: filter that obfuscates all your source into whitespace? :) Acme::Bleach dkr: as preaction said it is Acme::Bleach. moderation -1 Redundant smirks get out you slashdotter just kidding I got moderated overrated yesterday. I felt so loved GumbyGumby: how often do you post to /.? dkr: do it to system() a ssh command. Is doing that often. GumbyBRAIN: how often do you post dkr to Slashdot? do it to list. #perl Freenode Got the Slashdot? What's in a variable-name? on Freenode's #perl. y'all should spell it in uppercase it being an acronym and all Yes, but we're *lazy*! *so* noticed ;) WebDragon: people that use CamelCase have no right to criticize about capitalization. :) dkr: I hate underscores contemplates a source code filter that does lets you use spaces in var names by switch them to underscores at compile time black magic dkr: source filters are evil. dkr: in a bad way. dkr: hacking the compiler is much more fun, and evil in a useful way :) WebDragon: recommended perl style is $var_name WebDragon: it's also more readable than $varName or $VarName WebDragon: I'd recommend trying it for at least a month WebDragon: also note that it'll make life easier because you'll be consistent with the rest of perl code mst: I was thinking more along the lines of filenames and irc nicknames than perl variables WebDragon: ah. fair enough :) doesn't use CamelCase for perl variables WebDragon: then I shall cease complaining :) ${"Insert a descriptive essay about the variable here"} rofl avar: that won't work with 'use strict 'refs'' avar: I've seen things like that in real life and had recurring nightmares about them when I saw similar and sometimes worse things on thedailywtf.com rindolf: ${main::}{"Insert a descriptive essay about the variable here"} would :) rindolf: or you could just use %_ :) my boss still occasionally uses vars like $x. still trying to beat that behavior out of him only uses x|y|z for Cartesian coordinate math which, since I hardly ever do any of that, means the obvious #perl Freenode What's in a variable name? Watched the fountain on Freenode's #perlcafe watched the Fountain pretty cool' yep what? you think The Fountain was cool? it was pretty artsy. I don't understand the necessity of repeating that same scene 50k times, though. then you didn't get the movie sili: if you repeat a scene 50k times, then the movie will have less entropy and will compress better. #perl Freenode Watched the fountain on Freenode's #perlcafe Committing yourself to a programming language on Freenode's #perl. high-rez, but I don't know enough to help you because I am a newbie to perl programming and although I am in deep love with perl and planning on marrying perl, I still have a lot to learn. convivial: you can only marry Perl if polygamy is legal where you live. convivial: because Perl and I are already married. :-D why is that? I'm single :) convivial: but Perl isn't. oh crap ! all the good languages are already married :( convivial: COBOL is still single. convivial: but I heard she's a total bitch. ewwwwwwwwwwww, so is JCL and no one is knocking down either of their doors rindolf, Janet Reno is single! convivial: what kind of programming language is "Janet Reno"? :) she is a person convivial: I'm not interested in people, I'm only interested in programming languages. rindolf: you should try Ada shaldannon: Ada 95? yeah the syntax of Pascal, the power of Basic and the friendliness of Java #perl Freenode Committing yourself to a programming language on Freenode's #perl. Making use of Encyclopedias at FreeNode's #perl beats iank over the head with an encyclopedia shaldannon: all volumes of an encyclopedia? rindolf: ha rindolf: every last one of 'em shaldannon: or perhaps a printout of the Wikipedia? rindolf: the whole bookcase shaldannon: which Encyclopedia? rindolf: naw, just get the DVD :) rindolf: I couldn't lift that rindolf: Britannica You could lift the DVD! shaldannon: Start. Working. Out. dwu: oh? shaldannon: Dude, being able to lift the Britannica is hot. -> the internet :-} Seriously. "I can hold the accepted knowledge of a percentage of the human race in my arms!" "Oh, god, that is so sexy." hahahaha Seriously. Smart is hot. Smart and funny... well. is hilarious ;) Uhm. kay. If you start reading the wikipedia lexicographically, will you ever finish at the rate articles are added there? rindolf: yes (citation needed) ha lol @ tarrybone tarrybone++ This reminds me of James Bond 1, where the girl there read an encyclopedia, instead of going to school. Does anyone near Philadelphia want to come to my house and take away my 1920 Britannica? rindolf: hey...when I was in elementary school, I used to read the World Book encyclopedia instead of doing my homework #perl Freenode One Encylcopedia Per Child - all volumes of it Production WTF Code on #perl anyone envy me? I'm refactoring production code that uses the fact that "" is defined, as a hash key. if (ref $ref->{""} ne "ARRAY") { $ref->{""} = [$ref->{""},$_]; } else { $ref->{""} = [@{$ref->{""}},$_]; } :( hey, that looks like fun. Has the author been lynched yet? would have used "\0" :-P the best of it all, is that it's an XML parser $ref->{""} = [ref $ref->{""} eq "ARRAY" ? @{$ref->{""}} : $ref->{""}, $_]; # fixed dwave: does this XML parser makes use of an existing XML parser from CPAN? dwave: or does it do everything from scratch? rindolf: everything from scratch :) dwave: nice! I'm trying to get rid of it dwave: re-inventing square wheels. there's a home made Unicode lib too ! dwave: ouch! nice Brilliant! dwave: I suggest a dailywtf.com submission dwave: yeah, I second shaldannon #perl Freenode Production WTF Code on #perl Versions of Software on FreeNode's #perl rindolf: I command you both, to uninstall it, and install SuSE10.2 =P "versions" are so annoying. "I use Linux 10.2!" jagerman: I had a friend who insisted the answer to the question "What version of the kernel are you running?" was "gnome". eval: $POE::Kernel::VERSION jagerman: 1.2173 \o/ heh, a friend of mine only remembers me running Ximian a few years ago and he keeps on asking me, "why don't you run Ximian again?" where Ximian == OS for him. jagerman: could be worse lingo-wise, in tech-support many folks asking on Q about 'THEIR internet' isn't working, or 'does it have internet installed?', I .....like.... sir.... when did you manage to buy the internet in whole? ....... ahhhh... the internet is not a socket you plug in any of the ports sir #perl Freenode Versions of Software The Holy Extreme Programming in Freenode's #perl "We're doing XP [= Extreme Programming] here, so you need to know Ruby, you need to know Design Patterns and you need to know Refactoring." XP may have become a religion. I Refactored yesterday! ew73: using which refactoring pattern? Leviticus 13:22 well you will keep refactoring until you get it right! extracts the ew73 method. ew73: this is one of my favourite refactoring patterns. idly looks up said passage, just to see if it's any good. What do you have to know to claim you know refactoring? How to click buttons in the right Eclipse menu? integral: the code is in Ruby. Ruby is too cool to be in Eclipse? integral: One time, I moved all this stuff to another subroutine! Lev. 13:22. And if it spread, he shall judge him to have the leprosy: integral: no, but you cannot refactor Ruby code automatically using Eclipse. One time I wrote all this code, but when I was about to go home I found I'd left my brain at home! LOLZ ew73: good butter advert in that #perl Freenode Extreme Programming as a Religion To be here or not to be here on Freenode's #perl Hi all. LeoNerd: here? rindolf: Maybe LeoNerd: "be here or be not here - there is no maybe" :) LeoNerd: a.k.a the law of the exclusion of the middle. I think Yoda phrased that one best. #perl Freenode To be here or not to be here on Freenode's #perl Monkey Business at Freenode's #perl that's just...mental perlmonkey2: still here? rindolf: hi perlmonkey2: hi. phew perlmonkey2: now we have two Perl monkeys. hah good stuff You can never have too many. To produce good stuff like Shakespeare's works, we need an infinite number of monkeys we're starting a monkey clan PeaceNLove: heh. PeaceNLove: and to write like a monkey we need a million Shakespeares. perlmonkey, reproduce and multiply, God be with you PeaceNLove: You can, of course, do anything with an infinite number of perl monkeys. PeaceNLove: Actually a million monkeys on a million typewriters would most probably have not created Hamlet if they started at the beginning of the Universe. perlmonkey2, that's fine, the Universe has not ended yet, they have time #perl Freenode Monkey Business at Freenode's #perl Who you're gonna call on Freenode's #perl Hmmm... xchat-perl is gone. OH NOES! ## what's that for then? Who you're gonna call? Bug-busters!! rindolf: never existed, unless you are using an rpm based system Khisanth: I am. I AINT AFRAID OF NO BUG! f00li5h: heh. when there's something weird and in your code base, who you gonna call? f00li5h: The police? railbait: BUG BUSTERS! we test it with science then blow it up ... or is that someone else #perl Freenode Who you're gonna call? Tribute to the Prisoner on Freenode's #perl How do I look up @- in the perldocs? Hazard: perldoc perlvar rindolf: Thanks. perldoc rindolf I don't know what I'd do without IRC. Daveman: I am not a pragma! I'm a free man! I couldn't even google that. use Daveman (qw(silliness)); sends rindolf back to the village jetscreamer: is it a Perlisoner village where everyone becomes a pragma? and lots of perlBalloons gumbybrain, how do i make teh web wit Shlomi!? jetscreamer: Perloons. jetscreamer: Perlunatics. Perlarks. perlaugh #perl Freenode Tribute to the Prisoner The Messiah of Perl on Freenode's #perl Technically, my first language was Turbo Pascal, but I started over with Perl 10 years later (not having programmed in the meantime). I'm obviously damaged goods. ubajas: heh, I read that as "I started with (perl 10) (years later)" instead of "I started with perl (10 years later)" :) Perl 10! Perl for the Fourth Millenium. I thought Perl 6 was supposed to be timeless iank: Maybe I should have added a comma. :-] Perl ∞ perl6 has existed since the beginning of time, or at least it will have existed since then once $Larry finds a time machine. iank: I'm sorry but Larry is the prophet i am the messenger! i will be the one to take it back! WHAT. iank: its MY TIME MACHINE! smacks simcop2387 around iank: So it'll be like that Star Trek episode, where they say that the development of computers are caused by time travel from the future? Except that they were too stupid (like most Voyager writers) to get their facts right, and thought computers started in the 70s #perl Freenode The Messiah of Perl One rindolf Each on Freenode's #perl with strict it say me this: Global symbol "$lorem" requires explicit package name at split.pl line 3. milardovich: use "my $lorem = " milardovich: my is your friend. pun not intended. my is my friend. Preferably with a real value after "= " ^.^ dwu: he already has that. that works with my rindolf thank you!!! milardovich: you're welcome. :) I wish I had a rindolf too. :-\ people here are "nicer" than on #php :P ubajas: I'm mass-produced at Chinese sweat-shops. hehe ubajas: they sell me for 30 bucks a piece. milardovich: I've heard some horrible stories about ##php. perl rules x) milardovich: what brings you to Perl? rindolf: #php apparently simcop2387: heh. simcop2387++ #perl Freenode One rindolf Each on Freenode's #perl Are you being verbed on Freenode's #perl cl1: what do you do at work? i write code :D cl1: naturally. cl1: to do what? right now at this contract, I'm working with .net, c#, asp.net and pl/sql cl1: sounds enterprisey. please don't turn enterprise into a verb. BinGOs: enterprisey is an adjective, not a verb. Enterprizationaliseation? okay. lol @ enterprisey GumbyBRAIN: BinGOs me! i tend to be good, it doesn't want me to buy an island utopia (you'll get used to bother me. But it is a noun and no more. mmmkay. BinGOs: Actually, it's also an adjective. Even without "y". I HATE YOU ALL. grin CRITIQUE IS DEFINITELY A FUCKING NOUN. It's also a verb. NO IT ISN'T BinGOs: i shall critique your use of critique JUST BECAUSE SOME DAMNED YANKEE SCUM DECIDE IT IS, DOES NOT MAKE IT SO. It's been used since the 18th century. BinGOs: dwued! I refer you to my earlier hate. I refer you to your fail. not earlier than 18th century I really shouldn't. It's mean. But I will. Because I'm mean. icke: Hence "since". 'criticises'. My fail-gun appears to firing backwards. Damn thing. Your fail gun is... failing? #perl Freenode Are you being verbed on Freenode's #perl How much Perl do you need at Freenode's #perl is POP 3 module available only in perl 5? are you saying you use something other than 5? perl 4 didn't even have modules heh shishirm1: do you want to use it with Perl 4? oh ok sorry i am complete newbie!! so i am just asking you guys nope is perl 5 a standard now? yes ok great... :) shishirm1: Perl 4 is unmaintained, unloved, deprecated, not recommended, and dead - D. E. D. - DEAD! perl 4 is an EXPERL! all statements that perl4 is a going concern are thus inoperative. #perl Freenode How much Perl do you need at Freenode's #perl Conditional-to-Inheritance Refactoring on Freenode's #perl Hrm. More infernal questions, mainly because I am trying to make my perl prettier and contain less nasty if's. I have $foo and $bar which are obtained from split(/ /, 'kitten loving'). But I don't want undef if the split fails, I'd rather '' for $bar or both. What's the nicest way to do that? ($foo, $bar) = map { $_ // "" } split / /, $str; # 5.10 version :) Noo 5.10! :) ($foo, $bar) = map { defined $_ ? $_ : "" } split / /, $str; # probably some other shorter ways too edeca: [bad idea] you can also try using the conditional->inheritance refactoring. :-) pours boiling coffee on rindolf Khisanth: I hate coffee, but I guess I deserved it. That was a joke, of course. you weren't really supposed to like having boiling anything poured on you but I guess you are into the kinkier stuff #perl Freenode Conditional-to-Inheritance Refactoring on Freenode's #perl Geek love on Freenode's #perl rbastic: QBasic was the sh*t! rbastic: well, not really. rindolf: yup, that language is responsible for me having gotten into programming to begin with. 8 years old and writing qbasic scripts with QBasic for Dummies by my side rbastic: I started when I was 10. rbastic: I know some people who started much later. Late bloomer .. didn't start till I was 15. heh, I started at 14... I could not have a computer before that rbastic: but I know a girl who started programming when she was 6. Or was it 8? rindolf, CAN HAS PHONE NUMBER?! lol Zoffix: NO CAN! :( Zoffix: only have her MSN. gimmegimmegimme Heh. :) Zoffix: LOL. #perl Freenode Geek Love The Grand Unified Programming Language Juerd: eh in today's world of heavy JS on the client side, i think it makes a little more sense to use the same language everywhere rbastic: JS on the client side is because often it's the only option the universe provides. Juerd: from a business perspective, you reduce the complexity and potential difficulties in finding new hires with the same skillset rbastic: have you heard of RJS? rbastic: On the server side, however, you have great freedom. rindolf: no, what's that? Larry wants perl6 to run on JavaScript :) rbastic: "One Language; and One Sayings". rbastic: Exactly. I would never hire a server side programmer who knows *only* JavaScript, and is too stupid to learn whatever we're using on the server side. rbastic: my translation to a sentence from the Tower of Babel myth. Juerd: I'll agree with that also. any real programmer knows or has at least coded in half a dozen languages before From a business perspective, you should avoid crap coders at all cost. Knows *or* has coded... Hmmm...! rbastic: though according to what most scholars believe it was not about using one language but rather thinking the same. I hope they haven't coded in half a dozen languages without knowing them. That'd be scary. Reality is scary, Juerd Hmm, BASIC, FORTRAN, COBOL, assembler, C, more assembler, C, Pascal ... Perl! #perl Freenode The Grand Unified Programming Language Can I haz a fast compiler on Freenode's #perl rbastic: now I'm working with C++. rbastic: I found out that my project compiles really quickly. rbastic: under 5 or 10 minutes on a P4-2.4GHz with 1 GB of RAM. rbastic: maybe KDE is making g++ look bad. rindolf: yeah, I'm not a big KDE fan rbastic: actually I'm using KDE-3.5.8 here. rbastic: I was talking about the compilation speed of KDE apps and KDE itself. rbastic: possibly because each file has half-a-gazillion headers. My C++ code is a server one, so we don't have too many deps. yeah, isn't there a way to cache header files? ie. in their "compiled" form? or is that something I'm remembering from some other programming language that purported to build on top of C? rbastic: MSVC has that. ahh, nods rbastic: no, Visual C++ has precompiled headers. rbastic: I remember that I kept deleting them. yeah, couldn't remember lol Pascal compiles very quickly. That's one of the things I enjoyed in Delphi. ugh, the app I'm been maintaining in Java was originally a fat client/server desktop app, written in Delphi rbastic: ah. i remember booting up the old app for the first time, and being amazed at how slow it was eventually, i had to duplicate a feature in the Java code and i wasn't sure how it was implemented before rbastic: you mean the Java app is faster? :S so being as i had no Delphi experience, and the newer Delphi environments made NO sense to me at all, i just opened up the SQL Server query analyzer rindolf: yes, but only b/c the Delphi programmer was an idiot, issuing queries over and over again needlessly rindolf: if you could've seen the MSSQL Performance Analyzer or whatever, it was basically just.. Query1, Query2, Query3, Query1, Query2, Query3, repeat. it was probably the worst I've ever seen in my life.. belongs on www.thedailywtf.com #perl Freenode Can I haz a fast compiler I think too much - therefore I blog too much on Freenode's #perl scrottie: hi. hi rindolf! scrottie: are you the scrottie from use.perl.org? yeah. scrottie: ah, nice to meet you. Well, chat with you on IRC at least. cowers from the swinging fist probably coming his way scrottie: I'm "Shlomi%20Fish" oh, heh, thanks It's a curse. hmm. i vaguely remember interesting stuff from you but can't honestly place what. I know I've seen you around here before too. Yeah, my use.perl.org blog is mostly technical and perl-related. I post on use.perl.org entirely too much. So it may be a bit boring. Sometimes it's a bit philosophical. scrottie: yes. heh. and mine is offensively off-topic. scrottie: I have other blogs. I've posted to livejournal twice! #perl Freenode I think too much - therefore I blog too much "How intrusive do you want your text to be?" on Freenode's #perl Can we add styles like <b>, <i>, etc.? Or colours? Or blink? Or images? Or flash applets? <banner>! rindolf: No I think. Google's Web Application does not allow them. It is just a <textarea>. #perl Freenode How intrusive do you want your text to be? Freenode's #pearl scrottie: you are a native English speaker right? scrottie: do you know #linguistics ? not familiar with #linguistics, yes, I am a native English speaker, but my spelling is atr... my spelling is terrible. atrocious? yeah, that I have an xterm dedicated to dict/spell scrottie: spelling is probably easy to fix using aspell. scrottie: heh. scrottie: I'm using xchat which has an red-line for spelling mistakes. Very useful. Too bad I'm using British spelling where it sometimes misbehaves. aspell, I mean. #perl Freenode Freenode's #pearl "Lame even" on Freenode's #perl A lot of ise's [in Aspell's British Spelling checker] are false positivies. positives even. People who say $minor_spelling_correction even, are lam. lame even. I never get tired of these self-referential jokes. #perl Freenode Lame even The Third #perl Reich (on Freenode #perl). The tech side was there... but I was stuck with my fucking graphics I did in crayon. I kid you not. Crayon. It was a cry for help. Programmers will work with each other on fun projects, but graphic designers never get involved in stuff like that. scrottie: ah. then there's kingdomofloathing.com... stick figures. scrottie: there are some graphic designers who contribute to KDE, GNOME, etc. fuck graphic artists. we should round them all up and burn them. scrottie: heh. okay, they can live. scrottie: scrotitler! the rest get burnt though. "He who starts by burning graphics designers will end up burning programmers." only the ASP and PHP programmers... then we'll see where things are at and re-evaluate the plan. First they came to the graphics designers... then they came for more graphics designers scrottie: I knew some very nice PHP programmers. And VB ones. yeah, me too. real shame. scrottie: I still know some PHP programmers. #perl Freenode The Third #perl Reich (on Freenode #perl). The Name "Bunny" has joined #perl B-rabbit? I know a B-rat on #linguistics. rindolf, cool =] B-rabbit: ok. my full name is bunny rabbit, by the way :) hehe B-rabbit: ah. B-rabbit: "bunny" is a female name. lol rindolf: correct I know a bunny Or a Playboy bunny. rindolf: bunny is a stripper name friends call her bun pippijn: is she a stripper? rindolf, i am a male lol x sorry to disappoint u "IRC: Where men are men, women are men, and the kids are FBI agents." B-rabbit: ok, no problem. pippijn: she should change her name ik: it doesn't hurt her pippijn: right, but she's violating a fundamental law pippijn: she either needs to change her name or become a stripper ik: I think the other option is better. ik: she'd probably become a stripper rather than changing her name pippijn: LOL. rindolf: yeah, but you're creepy I think I'll make a fortune out of it. #perl Freenode The Name "Bunny" The Anti-School nazi Hi rindolf :) Hi dazjorz dazjorz: what's up? dazjorz: No Tests for You? No *more No more tests :) dazjorz: No more tests for you!!! For three months! dazjorz: nice! :D Two, I think #perl Freenode The anti-School nazi Emulating a Newbie on Perl Hi, I heard that Perl is just HTML with some sort of macro preprocessor attached. So I thought you would be the right people to ask about whether there is a way to make the submitted value on an <input type=submit> different from the visible label on the button. Thanks in advance. tars and feathers yrlnry. Hi, Roderick! How's the kid? you have been misinformed, sir; Perl is just a regex engine with named variables yrlnry: that is possibly one of the oddest questions I have ever heard ne2k__: What's odd about "How's the kid?" You need to get out more, seriously. yrlnry: I meant the original question Congratulations, I hope it's going well. Do you know that Jewish folktale about the man who lives in a tiny hut with his wife and kids and they can't stand the crowding any more, so they go to the rabbi for advice, and the rabbi suggests that they bring the chickens, goat, and cow into the house too? yrlnry: not that it has anything to do with perl, but the <input> tag in HTML has both "name" and "value" attributes. the value is what gets shown in the browser typically. ne2k__: yes, and the value is also what is submitted when someone presses the button, but I want the displayed label to be different from what it submitted, as it is say with <option ...> #perl Freenode yrlnry as a Perl newbie Which Prefix do You Want Today? hi rind Hi mMish mMish: now you're mMish ? mMish: are you eMish, oMish, aMish , etc? yes mMish: ah, nice. depends on the mood GumbyBRAIN: how many nicks must a one IRCer have? Oh, i lie, now it's stuck on posting things to do it. You said you couldn't have one of many. mMish: ah OK. xMish iMish zMish Like the IBM computers. pMish ppszMish <--- Hungarian mMish: LOL. lpstrMish is lpstr a function? get_magic_quotes_gpcMish dazjorz: no, Long Pointer to string. PHP++ :') dazjorz: why? perlbot: karma PHP Karma for PHP: -147 It takes some nerve to say "PHP++" in #perl :P rindolf: because they have get_magic_quotes_gpc! don't we all love get_magic_quotes_gpc! dazjorz: oh. it's a function dazjorz: love, hate - what's the difference. dazjorz: that does what? to get the value of magic_quotes_gpc in the config file. dazjorz: ah. so they have get_magic_quotes_gpc for get_ini('magic_quotes_gpc') dazjorz: LOL. plus, there's the magic_quotes_gpc to escape all input a script gets via POST, GET and COOKIE. dazjorz: yes, sounds Evil. Just use placeholders. #perl Freenode Which Prefix do you Want today? Sextalk according to the cult of Perl Hey all, what's the best way to call one perl script from another? I was thinking I'd just use 'system("script.pl");' krang: yeah, that, or do "script.pl" krang: depends on how separated you want them to be dazjorz: you mean just a line that has "script.pl"; written on it? you need the do as well krang: no, exactly this: do "script.pl"; krang: system is usually what you want. krang: normally require or use are preferable to do rindolf: that's for modules, isn't it ? dazjorz: yes. wait, I think require "script.pl" would work too dazjorz: and doing code is not such a good idea. rindolf: hmm? rindolf: what is doing anyway? dazjorz: I mean "perldoc -f do"-ing code. krang: do()-ing krang: it reads the file and evaluates it. krang: perldoc -f do. rindolf: ah rindolf: do {} would rather be doing hot models than doing code. :-) rindolf: yeah, do BLOCK is quite useless heh dazjorz: you can do my $var = do { ... } would rather be doing GumbyBRAIN than doing code and doing code is not be in the days of immortality! dazjorz: or eval { ... } dazjorz: heh. It's hard to do code. do $model; eh.. sorry, do $hotmodel; "Are you into my brother?" "No I'm totally into Perl." ah ok, I see. Thanks guys! krang: yw. heh :-) If you want a configuration file, you should be using something like INI, YAML, etc. XML perhaps. Something. Apache-like config. Apache-like is very strong but hard to parse, right ? Loading and saving configuration never looks good, especially when it's XML the code to load and save is ugly. #perl Freenode Sextalk among Perl cultists f00li5h inviting rindolf to Australia rindolf: are you coming out this way on tour some time? f00li5h: to .au? yes! f00li5h: don't think so. you can pay some of my rent for a bit ^_^ f00li5h: I'm out of job too. perfect timing! no commitments is very good at constructing circular arguments due to his skill in constructing circular arguments #perl Freenode Will rindolf come to Australia? The Love Life of Cats today my kitty gave a birth to two kitties! Anon: ah, nice. one of them died :( during birth Anon: oh. :-( Anon: were you expecting it to happen? :( simcop2387, i was expecting this week Anon: do you know who the father is? ah rindolf, some cat rindolf: hopefully not him rindolf, remember my kitty ran away Anon: ah. for a week Anon: no I don't remember that. well, she ran away for a week Anon: ah. and came back and during that time she got pregnant. Anon: ah. they don't seem to have safe sex Anon: she eloped. Anon: sounds like she had fun simcop2387, sounds like that :) Anon: you should have the talk with her about birth control then (i wonder do they even make birth control for kitties) #perl Freenode The Love Life of Cats Black Beer is listening to Oh crud. I should support Kaffeine too. rindolf is apparently deaf... ;-) is listening to Metallica - Nothing Else Matters NOTHING ELSE MATTERS, DUDE rindolf: that's nice :) rindolf: how about guns 'n roses? is listening to Guns and Runs - don't cry tkr: you read my mind. tkr: I now placed some of their songs. Now it's November Rain. rindolf: next time you'll come to Finland I'll buy you a beer (with no alcohol)! :) rindolf++ tkr: OK. tkr: we have something called "Black Beer" in Israel. Which is a non-alcoholic beer. rindolf: THAT'S RACIST! IT SHOULD BE AFRICAN AMERICAN ISRAELI BEER! rindolf: is it any good? simcop2387: heh . #perl Freenode Beer, Perlers and Song Assign Named $foo and $bar I feel there must be a way to do this... given func( foo => 1, bar => 2 ); how to write my ( $foo, $bar ) = .... inside the function? My current attempt is my ( $foo, $bar ) = @{{@_}}{qw( foo bar )}; which is messy as sin LeoNerd: what's the problem? readability? Yeah LeoNerd: I'd change specs to be func({ foo => 1, bar => 2}) then my ($foo, $bar) = ($_[0]{foo}, $_[0]{bar}); LeoNerd: If you insist on doing it on one line, that's about as good as it gets. But why not use a temporary hash ? Should be just as fast and as readable Hrm.. :/ Then it's only marginally nicer as my ( $foo, $bar ) = @{$_[0]}{qw( foo bar )}; my %args = @_; my ( $foo, $bar ) = @args{qw( foo bar )}; yeah... that works LeoNerd: my ($foo, $bar) = do { my %a = @_; @a{qw(foo bar)} }; if you combine it with a delete you can then check if %args is empty and catch typos or unexpected arguments.... Oooh.. a do block or use padwalker Oh, args won't be empty... this is a wrapper function that pulls a few named args off and sends the rest to a nested inner function Now.. I want to call a function "foreach" but that breaks things... suggestions? a method could be named 'foreach' Yeah... but this is a plain function tough I suppose "iterate" is about as best as I'll get for_each LeoNerd: forall ? I'll think on it overnight maybe.. I guess it's home time now foreachandeverysingleone forever, forfun, forlorn... FOREACH boo one_for $all and $all for @one; forevery? <LeoNerd> one_for $all and $all for @one; - heh $one for @all and @all for @one $one for @all and @all for @$one $one for @all and @all for $one Works too. Hrm.. it does? deparse: $one for @all and @all for $one LeoNerd: Error: syntax error at (eval 107195) line 1, near "@all for " You can't use two postmod fors in a single statement #perl Freenode Syntax Fun The func Hi, i am doing a print $drh->func('createdb',$database,"localhost","root",$password,'admin'); but getting this Can't call method "func" on an undefined value could anyone point me in the right direction ? o/~ Ow we want the func / Give up the func / Ow we need the func / We gotta have that func o/~ </drforr> We got the func! Forget the fee func, we've got the see func! WTF? did i launch a movement or what ? What the func?! #perl Freenode The func More Than One Way for a Cat to Paw paws at dazjorz f00li5h! :) how goes it? it goes very fine. :) f00s at pawlish pkrums at pawkrumins f00li5h, thank you sir! =^_^= dazjorz: I am quite well li5hes at f00paw rins at pawdolf... man, I could go on forever. haha pawdolf dazes at pawjorz gumbys at .. oh well paws at GumbyBRAIN Ik paws at gumbybrain. #perl Freenode More Than One Way for a Cat to Paw Bit by bit is there a smart way to read a file to a certain string bit by bit ? which loop to use? Similian: you can read it byte by byte. Similian: do you want to read the whole thing? no too big 200 MB reading bit by bit is usually not supported by most operating systems Similian: then do you want to read one byte at a time? or one line at a time? guess a line would be better simcop2387-lab: it is on my rindolfOS running on Intel 1001. Which was a 1-bit processor. heh I had a half-bit processor it just stored ones ik: that would be a zero-bit processor then no no half-bit processor stores 0's or sqrt(2)'s sqrt(2) may as well be 1 rindolf: a 1 bit processor would be a hell of a thing to work with not if you can't test it unless it's one We're not talking about numbers, we're talking about on and off, true and false, whatever you want to call it sqrt(2) is non-zero, so it's one. danieldg: not 1/sqrt(2)? hmm it would probably be that, yes my processor uses sqrt[-1]! may as well ik: think quantum computers. It tests true with probability 1/sqrt(2) I'm not talking about a quantum computer.. well a 1/2 bit computer clearly can't be classical #perl Freenode Bit by bit Log Analyser in Haskell whoppix: what's up? rindolf, haskelling through the night. whoppix: ah. rindolf, I'm pretty much a beginner, though. whoppix: yes, I learned Haskell back at the time. whoppix: I tried to write a log analyser in Haskell once. whoppix: it segfaulted. whoppix: a CL-one was much better. rindolf: haha sadness whoppix: then people showed me how to write it better. whoppix: but it segfaulted too. haha hahaha lol whoppix: I gave up on using Haskell for production. rindolf: I've submitted your story to bash.org #perl Freenode Log Analyser in Haskell Best Kind of Bugs perlmonkey2: I've ran into a strange problem with CMake. It's some kind of bug that disappears after running a few commands. rindolf: heh, the best kind of bugs are intermittent and only happen under load :P perlmonkey2: it's not load. The best kind of bugs are the ones that do not happen at all :) daemon: heh. daemon++ The best kind of bugs are the ones that only happen to people you hate. hahahaha Those aren't usually bugs >:) Altreus, you mean the ones you coded to happen to that said person ;) hehe Not being able to reproduce strange behaviour is fine too #perl Freenode Best kind of bugs The IRC-Based UNIX Shell & Zoffix: fg ^Quiddity, no kill %1 kill -9 apeiron rindolf, EPERM kill: apeiron: arguments must be process or job IDs apeiron: sudo kill -9 apeiron killall -9 apeiron pkill -9 apeiron rindolf, user rindolf is not in the sudoers file, this event will be reported wonders what it says about him that he has that error message pretty much memorized apeiron: that you don't spend enough time issuing commands correctly #perl Freenode The IRC-Based UNIX Shell Retardedness mst: sorry for that - that was not my intention. rindolf: I know it wasn't. you aren't that retarded. but the way your comment came across was :) mst: yes. mst++ mst: "you aren't that retarded." - you shouldn't insult my retardedness (sp?). I worked all my life to be so retarded. I think you can spell made-up words like 'retardedness' however you like if you're a retard. heh working hard is the exact opposite of retardedness :] hardly working #perl Freenode Retardedness How to name a new Flickr-module trying to come up with a replacement name for my Flickr::Simple2.. (it is based off of XML::Simple rather than XML::Parser::Lite::Tree) - Net::Flickr, Flickr::API, Flickr::Simple are already taken. Any ideas? I'm coming up blank for a name It is a Perl interface to Flickr wait jfroebe: ah, I saw your message on Chicago.pm jfroebe: maybe WWW::Flickr you found others and decided you needed to make ANOTHER perl interface to flickr? the other ones have been broken for a long time (either because of use of the abandoned XML::Parser::Lite::Tree module or because the authentication method was never correctly implemented) jfroebe: Please no more names involving ::Simple buu: ::Tiny WWW::Flickr is a good possibility Thanks rindolf. hah tiny is the new simple ::Minimal. ::SeriouslyfuckingSmall ::NotEnough ::GargantuanlySmall ::Minuscule ::Warning::Uses::XML::Simple::And::Thus::Has:: Terrible::Performance::And::Memory::Usage ::Deficient stay in the Flickr:: space apeiron++ if there already is one mofino.. that's the problem what to name it ::Nano that should be small enough and it sounds serious jfroebe, something in Flickr:: ;) ::Femto lol - understood jfroebe, ::Improved ::Modern ::Lite ::Tiny ::FUCKYEAH jfroebe: a Rose by any other name... IS A DUCK I think half the posts to module-authors are about "How shall I name this module?" haha I use perlmonks for that ^_^ jfroebe: I'm not a fan of XML::Simple either. XML::Simple is teh awesome 1; XML::Simple is teh sux whatever "this could be an arrayref or a hashref or a nothingref depending on how many thingies were in your doo-dad" force it yes but yeah, that is a bit annoying ik++ - my thoughts exactly. OH SUDDEN HASHREF XML::Simple is the MySQL of XML parsers. haha ahh mysql, DOOOMED Haha # apeiron++ lol @ > apeiron There's a reason it's called "Simple." You'll find out about 3 days after you start using it. would it be anything related to being feature-incomplete That would be be why it's "simple". but for simple XML data (i.e. Flickr's REST API), it is more than sufficient define "simple" XML $xml = '<' # already too complex kent - lol :) thoughts on Flickr::YA::API ? for a name jfroebe, YA? yet another ... just pick a name Flickr::API oh, never mind mofino - now you see.. all the good ones are taken ;-) maybe you had it at Flickr::Simple2 Flickr::API:: something or something kent\n, namespace already in use Flickr::Two jfroebe, since your API is an improvement over Simple mst: lol Flickr::API::SucksLess jfroebe: you can call it Flickr::Jfroebey mofino, I think you might be right. Flicker::API::FAFINAFA rindolf - lol ... my head is already big enough lol jfroebe, i mean, if that's what it is, it shows a clear progression from Simple ( Flicker::API::FAFINAFA is not a flickr api ) Flicker::rekcilF jfroebe: I have released Spork::Shlomify with some random changes to Spork that I needed. Well, I use subclassing to implement them. lmao You forked that spork! apeiron: it's not a fork! It's an improved spork! Flickr::Bettr Flickr::Strobe ( its a bit brighter ) Flickr::OnAndOff Flickr::FullBeam Flickr::FullLights Flickr::2009 Flickr::Meat that way somebody will be able to invent something better next year and call it Flickr::2010 Flickr::rkcilF Flickr::Barbie::Edition Flickr::Nuts Flickr::3b0f3a25d07e5d9dbdf98db15ee70410 (and no, it is not random) Flickr::911wasaninsidejob hehe haha thanks guys :) I've requested the Flickr::Simple2 namespace via pause #perl Freenode "A rose by any other name…" (and a little on XML::Simple) Whatever Yaakov: icke==troll? Mel|work: no, he's not a troll. Mel|work: No, icke is just... enthusiastic about "channel purity" k.... hates when people abuse the == operator in English for "contained in" rindolf, "icke contained in troll"? That's not what Mel|work meant. sure he did, if you make troll a set of users apeiron: what he meant by icke == troll is that icke belongs to the set of trolls. apeiron: not that every troll in the world is icke. rindolf, No, he was asking if icke is a troll. $icke->isa('Troll'); (false) apeiron: is-a means "contained in the set of objects with the property of" apeiron: mathematically speaking. rindolf, Okay, so you're assigning the mathematical meaning of == to its usage in a *perl* channel? rindolf, Now who's fiddling with meanings, eh? apeiron: whatever. 'whatever' is what those who have lost their argument say. apeiron: whatever. ^ QED apeiron: whatever. apeiron: I thought that's what people who don't care say. PerlJam, If one doesn't care, they wouldn't respond. apeiron: whatever ;-) LOL. #perl Freenode Whatever Dishsort My father and I joked about sorting the dishes in the dishwasher. My father said: "If you won't sort the dishwasher, the dishwasher won't be sorted." rindolf: bubble sort *g* dishsort Then I said "No, it won't be sorted by me." So he said "No, it won't be sorted at all. We will throw the dishwasher." "Along with all the dishes." Loci64: bubble sort is inefficient. Loci64: you should use quicksort or mergesort. or bashsort, or heapsort! yeah, but thorough. Loci64: or for small values of "N" - insertion sort. although I can't remember if those were stable. whoppix: what is bashsort? that matters for a dishwasher /bin/sort duh hehe, but dishwashers usually have medium to large numbers of N ;-) maybe trashsort solves the problem EvanCarroll: perldoc -f sort is more portable. rindolf, shellsort, not bashsort, sorry :) But I'll need to build a robot to use it with the dishes. cshsort There must be a trillion sorting algorithms and 9/10 of them are total shit and inferior in every way. This sorting algorithm is coveted if you KNOW that only one value is out of perfect order and it sits in the second to last position of the input. #perl Freenode dishsort Good scalar localtime() Good localtime(), #perl! rindolf: good scalar localtime to you sproingie: oooh! scalar context. well i didn't want to make you parse it sproingie: it is implied however. (er unparse it) Good strftime($format, localtime()). But better use DateTime. Or something. sub good ($$$) { ... } icke: yes. eval: good localtime(), #perl! rindolf: ERROR: syntax error at (eval 21) line 1, near "good localtime" eval: 'hi rindolf how is your '.scalar localtime.'?' Altreus: hi rindolf how is your Tue Mar 10 15:43:13 2009? Altreus: how is my Tuesday, 10-March-2009? Altreus: or do you mean down right to that exact second. rindolf: I gave you as much information as I could for you to use as you see fit. If you don't need it all you can just take the date #perl Freenode Good scalar localtime() The Module::Build Saga The Module::Build saga goes on! Module::Build isn't a saga, it's a fucking horror series #perl Freenode Module::Build How to say IP? Hmm I should have checked the licence on Inline::Lua orochi_: licence it and people will steal it anyway :) Well, you can try to steal that, but it would be like a mouse stealing a battle tank. Altreus: you mean acronym? Perl license dwu: n IP is not pronounced as a word so it is not an acronym. At least not in the original meaning of the word: which is the only meaning given by a majority of dictionaries Yes, it's not a true acronym, though the word now has that baggage. Ip Ip Ip! ni! runs away Altreus: i say ip... :) IP would be an abbreviation. also, initials? but isms are cool. I see Eye.Pea. oooh yes. and dead people? is listening to Sesame Street - Yip Yip Martians dwu: Intent is involved; just because you say it as a word does not mean it was meant to be said as a word ;) wikipedia knows about it, and has like a million sauces cited mostly dictionaries YAPC is an acronymic moniker! BE THERE Altreus: well absolutement :) also, yumy, i like bernaise. I say* Eye.Pea. hrrrm, the Oxford cream dictionary. *nomnomnom* rindolf: awww. Eye.Pea.Freely dwu: heh no-one says "ip", everyone says "Eye Pea" Ip address rindolf: can you just -say- dead people, for the heck of it? Yip address ne2k__: provably false. i need an ip address, stat! yiff address? dwu: I say dead people. <3 rindolf dwu: I say. you do :) I say I say I say dwu: :-) dwu: you can't stat an ip address, only a file #perl Freenode How to say IP? And you coll yourself a programmer Su-Shee: it's VBA, not VB. Su-Shee: completely different beast. Su-Shee: and much saner. Su-Shee: I don't know VB. Never had the need. _Fauchi95_: alright rindolf: And you coll yourself a programmer... And hopefully will never have the need. fuzzix: call rindolf: Good coll. Dvorak's tough after spending the day on qwerty :) fuzzix: coll again? Hmm... there is such a word called "coll". rindolf: That one was a joke :) why stop now? he's on a roll Wonder what it means. fuzzix: ah. c0bra: a rick roll? rall a coll roll roll the ball. rall the boll. And go to the Super-bowl. Coll\, v. t. [OF. coler, fr. L. collum neck.] To embrace. "Rolling is hard. Let's go to the mall." #perl Freenode You coll yourself a programmer Chuck Norris as a Refactorer 2010 is planned more or less as a refactoring year. A whole *year*? What physical plane of existence do you reside on? DrForr_: there's also bugs to fix and systems to care for and things like that. it's not that we're locked into the closet and a year later a new, shiny product is released. ;) Closet optional. I'm not a wonderwoman refactoring half a million lines of perl in a week, sorry. :) Su-Shee: Chuck Norris refactors 10 millions lines of perl before lunch. rindolf: hm. that's the reason.. I'm not as hairy as Chuck Norris and I don't have a beard... Su-Shee: ah. Su-Shee: Chuck Norris also wrote a complete Perl 6 implementation. rindolf: I heard, he already wrote Perl 7. Su-Shee: yes. wants to be as awesome as Chuck when he grows up. rindolf: I envy you. I'll never be as awesome without a beard. Su-Shee: heh. Su-Shee: it doesn't matter if you're rigid on the outside as long as you're rigid on the inside. Chuck Norris doesn't make mistakes. Su-Shee: Chuck Norris corrects God. rindolf: I'll apply as his secretary. Su-Shee: as Chuck's? rindolf: yes. Su-Shee: OK. Chuck Norris doesn't code. When he sits next to a computer, it just does whatever he wants. I'll tell my boss tomorrow. Chuck is who he wants. Su-Shee: Chuck Norris is his own boss. Su-Shee: if you hire him, he'll tell your boss what to do. good point. #perl Freenode Becoming as awesome as Chuck Norris is The Voices Tell Me So. hi perly! hey Chris, hey integral dabreegster, don't know you do I but HEY anyway what's been up? Ignore me, fine. goes in a corner dabreegster is the man, man Ah, that's better. perlygatekeeper: yo, yo, yo, dude! rindolf!! perlygatekeeper: what's up? hmmm not much you? perlygatekeeper: fine. Let me recall what I said to ezra. perlygatekeeper: I'm fine. Got into a few flamewars, and escaped alive to tell the tale. perlygatekeeper: worked a bit on my story "The Human Hacking Field Guide". perlygatekeeper: (which, BTW, you appear there (as your IRC nick at least) perlygatekeeper: and now working on the Computer Graphics section of my homepage. rindolf, what the hell? perlygatekeeper: excuse me? rindolf was that someone pretending to be me? I never said those things perlygatekeeper: it's a fictitious story. perlygatekeeper: relax. perlygatekeeper: or you could be the imposter right now... or maybe just schizophrenic. dabreegster: MPDed not schizophrenic. dabreegster: schizophrenia is not Multi-Persona-Disordered. perlygatekeeper: It's fan fiction from your fan! rindolf: what's the difference? dabreegster: MPD is when there are several personalities living inside your brain. dabreegster: in schizophrenia, you have one I-ness, but hear voices, hallucinate and stuff. rindolf: Ah. Why is it considered a disorder? MPD could be quite useful... One would have different perspectives on a subject. where's beth, she'll know it's me But how will we know it's beth?! rindolf: Oh, I have MPD then, not schizophrenia. I don't hallucinate. integral: WE DON'T! I don't hallucinate, but my other personality does. How do I know all of you exist? Am I just a figment of my own imagination? b0at: Interesting... dabreegster: Julian Jaynes describes schizophrenia very well in his "The Origins of Consciousness during the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind book". no no, you're all just figments of _lilo_'s imagination rindolf: I'll check it out he wishes integral: and you? the voices tell me if it's really beth or not perlygatekeeper: The voices tell me everything. Wait, I do have the Voices. Maybe I have MPD _and_ schizophrenia. Ah, but the question is: do the Voices have voices? dabreegster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Origin_of_Consciousness_in_the_Breakdown_of_the_Bicameral_Mind And if so, is it your own voice? b0at: And do the voices of the voices have voices? That's just going too far. don't worry, those are angels, invest in tarot cards and you will be able to understand them b0at: and if it's not, then could it be the voice of........ integral? rindolf? or.... buu! buu has other plans for our empty skulls b0at: and if they do, then what do the voices of the voices of the voices of the Voices sound like? *sob* it's the cabbages. The cabbages keep telling me to do things really? most of the time it's the socks that tell me stuff integral: The lawn gnomes tell me. They're........everywhere...*sniffle* *blubber* the socks are worse, there's moths living in them The lawn gnomes tell me to stay away from Life. They force me to write poetry. integral: *whispering* are the _moths_ the Voices? or the voices of the Voices? or the voices of the voices of the Voices? goes back to reading *looks furtively around for moths* #perl Freenode The voices told me so. Hacking someone into a hacker Su-Shee: I'm not good in detecting sarcasm over IRC. But naturally sometimes say sarcastic things myself. cuts his Nerd Membership Card in small pieces rindolf: that's why god gave us the ;) smiley ;) Su-Shee: not God, but a Russian entrepreneur who trademarked it. wishes we were all speaking in XML. J/K. Even Perl is not good enough for human communication. rindolf: are you really still that nerdy in your age? Su-Shee: I guess. Su-Shee: nerdy or geeky? Su-Shee: I.e: technologically inclined or having no social life? is both though. rindolf: so let's called it nerky. ;) But hopefully once I get a girlfriend, I'll be less of a Nerd. rindolf: what makes you think that? Su-Shee: I'll go out. Su-Shee: and stuff. Su-Shee: I also consider to start studying in Tel Aviv Uni. rindolf: and why does that require a girl friend? English/Hebrew/etc. or something. Lots of girls there. :-) Su-Shee: going out? those are language-skills humanities-department girls. ;) rindolf: yes. Su-Shee: I like language geeks. Thing is I think my knowledge of English and Hebrew is too superficial. And I lack the discipline to correct it on my own. rindolf: language departments like English are usually exactly _not_ geek-ish departments. Su-Shee: you mean they are not tech-savvy? But you can be an English geek. rindolf: they're not even language geeks usually. Or a hacker of English. Su-Shee: really? How sad. rindolf: you know some people just want to have good language skills and read books and communicate. a good hacker will know at least three languages. Well, maybe it's different in Israel. peterrooney: human ones, right? rindolf: at least one of them should be human I know English, Hebrew, studied Literary Arabic for 6 years and forgot most of it, and have some rudimentary French. peterrooney: ok. peterrooney: I think ever hacker should know Perl, Python, Haskell, C, Scheme/Lisp and Bash. And HTML/XHTML+CSS+etc. thank god I'm no hacker. ;) hacks Su-Shee into a hacker. rindolf: no you won't. one can perfectly well do nice tech stuff without degrading into someone he/she's not. Su-Shee: don't you like programming ? Didn't you contribute to FOSS? rindolf: aaand? I can do that without declaring myself as hacker, nerd, geek or whatever. Su-Shee: OK. Su-Shee: but it still makes you a hacker. rindolf: trust me, I'm very much not a hacker. really. honest to god not. gives a blue badge of honour saying "Hacker" to Su-Shee Su-Shee: too late, you're one of us now! ;-) "Resistance is futile." #perl Freenode Hacking someone into a hacker Selling Perl Documentation at Bargain Prices icke, how to start REPL? FreakGuard: looked in the docs? icke, no. you got to load it from CPAN icke, yeah, I've installed it. sells FreakGuard perl docs at a reasonable price only $9.99 each perldoc Devel::REPL is the direct way to info then wrings his hands and cackles icke, thanks :P bests Altreus' bargain by 1 cent. Reminds me of what I learned in Game Theory. offers free delivery allows free download Of course quality > price. offers a deluxe edition of the Perl documentation for 1,000 USD plus shipping and handling. diamond-encrusted? See http://perldoc.perl.org/ for a preview. huf: natural diamonds, too. huf: Canadian diamonds. well, if <> is natural... :) huf: heh. huf: not this kind of diamond. compresses if () under several million tonnes of rock for a few aeons I also give free spaceships - <=> heh Diamonds are heresy! We need PEARLs! /usr/bin/PEARL f00li5h: Seems like it! I prefer other gems :-) I suggested to Think Geek that they should do Perl necklaces but they didn't FreakGuard: Ruby gems? rindolf, correct. The rare PHP Darling I got you a PHP wedding ring oh it broke Altreus: as PHP tends to. laughs maniacally. you maniac! #perl Freenode Given enough suckers, all profits become shallow The ApeironPhone apeiron: because I write client side (Provider) which sends push messages to the phone and checks for new mail in perl Enl: a cellphone? No, a rotary POTS phone that's capable of receiving email, rindolf. rindolf: iphone, yep apeiron: :-) apeiron++ apeiron: I want a phone like that! apeiron: do you sell them? rindolf, Yes, and I have some oceanfront property for you, too. apeiron: would you accept some of my copious gold bars in return? rindolf, No. I only deal in Latinum! apeiron: Latinum. apeiron: gold-pressed Latinum? yes. apeiron: I only have silver-pressed Latinum. rindolf: get an iPhone, lol apeiron: would you accept LeoNerd and nanonyme as substitutes ? You can sell them for mucho Latinum. heh Enl: iPhones are worthless. conspires to steal the ApeironPhones. I didn't say I was honest. jealously guards his G1 rindolf: now really Enl: you should get an ApeironPhone too. Enl: chicks love it. what rindolf: pff, chicks don't matter I would kill for an ApeironPhone! ahem? kills Su-Shee and takes her ApeironPhone. ... WTF. hahaha uses his RindolfMindReading™ to see who else has an ApeironPhone. Put down the acid, Shlomi. o.o like that'll help he's still got ~8 hours on it rindolf: I have an apeiron-phone? where did buu go anyway? Su-Shee: you had one. Su-Shee: before you died. #perl Freenode The ApeironPhone - you know you want it use Zaba Su-Shee: "I always wonder why the people I hang out with are so pedantic. And then I remember: because they are so pedantic." -- a Perl-ILer. ;-) rindolf, because they use warnings adds "use Zaba;" to his code. oh no, I'm being used! adds "abuse Zaba;" to his code. Next: "misuse Zaba;" ouch! #perl Freenode use Zaba She can smoke… She's a hot chick. But she smokes. She can smoke as long as she's smokin'. #perlcafe Freenode She can smoke… iCanHazPad? has joined #perl when will I be able to write a perl GUI that will work on the iPad? johnjohn101: iPad? johnjohn101: was it released yet? johnjohn101: I think there are Perl bindings for Cocoa/Carbon/etc. today.. Just getting sucked by the hype johnjohn101: ah. johnjohn101: I'm incredibly suspicious of Apple. why's that? will wait for the cheap iPad knock-off that runs Android and can multitask johnjohn101: http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/anti/apple/ 133 links and going strong. thinks he has a link on his homepage or blogs for every occasion. they definitely know how to hype their new products. I get so suspicious of the hype. Nothing ever lives up to that type of billing johnjohn101: yes, I'm suspicious of hype too. rindolf the new apple maxipad is out today.. leave it to apple to create a new device with all the cost of a high end laptop.. the performance of a netbook and the interface of a cellphone gooshie: and no multitasking gooshie: heh. gooshie++ will google be able to match it? any time soon? Some technologies were not hyped and yet became very popular - UNIX, C, HTML. there's no amazingly complicated technology involved it's just a big iphone nicely packaged drop it once and it's unusable? ...if they just made a cover to protect the screen.. and then maybe because they had like a cover the inside could be the screen and the other part could then be a keyboard!.. that would be cool! gooshie: good thing you have an open mind about the product!! d:-/ ..the new apple maxipad... when your laptop is too big.. your iphone is too small and your wallet is too full. #perl Freenode iCanHazPad? Web Development Frameworks so while I'm on the subject, is there a good perl HTML framework similar to what CakePHP is to PHP ? like an MVC style environment so I'm wondering if mason is "state of the art" or if there are other tools to consider these days :) Catalyst. catalyst ok, cool ty markl_: there are plenty of other web-devel frameworks. perlbot: web frameworks rindolf: CGI-Application (and Titanium), CGI-Application-Plus, CGI-Builder, CGI-Prototype, Jifty, Catalyst (and Reaction), Mojo, SweetPea, Dancer, Gantry, AxKit, WebGUI rindolf: hmm, way too many it would appear :) markl_: yeah. what are the easiest ones for people good with perl but not HTML/CSS/AJAX experts ? markl_: not that Ruby or PHP have fewer. or the most widely adopted one ? markl_: the most popular appears to be Catalyst. catalyst seems to at least have a book :) markl_: it has several books. markl_: I worked a bit with Mojolicious, and it wasn't too bad, but it reinvents a lot of wheels. Due to its philosophy. markl_: I also did some Catalyst projects. Catalyst is a bit complicated. sawyer: can you comment about Dancer? Dancer is a lightweight web framework, it aims to make website development easy and rapid like all the other web frameworks :) for complex or extensive websites, i recommend Catalyst but for smaller or not-as-complex website, Dancer is what i use ok ty wants the one which makes it hard, complicated and difficult ;) Su-Shee, true :) #perl Freenode Web Development Frameworks Slippers and Perl frikinz: but you're welcome to ignore us, just come back for your "I told you so" when the penny finally drops :D buu: define penny finally drops buubot: define penny finally drops rindolf: penny n 1: a fractional monetary unit of Ireland and the United Kingdom; equal to one hundredth of a pound 2: a coin worth one-hundredth of the value of the basic unit [syn: {cent}, {centime}] [also: {pence} (pl)] frikinz: Reflex is still pretty raw, but it's eventy without so much loopy. In Hebrew we say "The phone token has fallen" instead of "the penny finally drops". Is that related to "the other shoe has dropped"? dngor: well, it means the same thing as the English expression - "I finally got to the bottom of it." Or understood it. Oh, they're completely different idioms. beats dngor with a slipper mst: :-D kinky. Su-Shee: wrt the topic ["Su-Shee wants the web-development framework that makes web-development hard, difficult and complicated"], it's called Maypole :) mst: heh. mst: yes, I can imagine that about Maypole. mst, avar: thank you so much. ;) please mail the sourcecode to rindolf who put it in the topic ;) Su-Shee: I can CPAN it. the topic? I have a string and am looking for a quick way to extract all 5-character slices out of it. Su-Shee: :-) IRC-Freenode-Perl-Topic-SuShee-WebDevelFrameworks-v0.0.1.tar.gz For example 'abcdef' returns 'abcde', 'bcdef' Any suggestions? mutewit: use subst mutewit: use substr mutewit: with a map eval: my $long_str = "0123456789abcdefgh"; [map { substr($long_s, $_, $_+5 } (0 .. length($long_s)-5)] rindolf: ERROR: syntax error at (eval 36) line 1, at EOF eval: my $long_str = "0123456789abcdefgh"; [map { substr($long_s, $_, $_+5) } (0 .. length($long_s)-5)] rindolf: [] rindolf: Awesome. eval: my $long_s = "0123456789abcdefgh"; [map { substr($long_s, $_, $_+5) } (0 .. length($long_s)-5)] rindolf: ["01234", 123456, 2345678, "3456789a", "456789abc", "56789abcde", "6789abcdefg", "789abcdefgh", "89abcdefgh", "9abcdefgh", "abcdefgh", "bcdefgh", "cdefgh", "defgh"] Thrid time the charm! ... thrid hits buubot with a big strict pragma. turns the slipper on rindolf mst: yes, my typing sucks today. But f**k it! IRC is not exactly the declaration of independence. ow! pragma_: pardon? hits pragma_ with mst's slipper so it will really hurt. why are you hitting buubot with me? pragma_: the strict pragma. pragma_: not you. perlbot: strict rindolf: Perl strictures - http://perldoc.perl.org/strict.html pragma_: ^^^ pragma_: we call the lowercase modules pragmata (sp?) in Perl. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=pragmata - hmm.... I thought pragmata was a valid plural of pragma. ow? ow! rindolf: Are you sure that generates only strings of length 5? mutewit: well, you need to watch from fencepost errors. mutewit: hey, he got you half way there mutewit: oh wait. mutewit: how about you read p3rl.org/substr and p3rl.org/map and have a go yourself mutewit: yes , you need substr($long_s, $_, 5) mutewit: this is a help-you-to-learn channel mutewit: not a "write your code for you" channel mutewit: and beware from fencepost errors. like substr($long_s , 1000, 5) Because that will be "" Or a 4 chars length. rindolf: I wanted the length argument to be 5 :p mst: I understand, I just missed the $_ + 5 issue. mutewit: right. what I'm saying is, you should have experimented mutewit: yes, I know. mutewit: then shown us the experiment and said "I can't work out why this is still wrong, here's what I've worked out so far" mutewit: then we can help you learn mutewit: assuming learning to write stuff yourself is what you're aiming for waits for tybalt89 to come up with a funky regex to do it. (if it isn't, please just throw yourself off a cliff or something, kthx ;) mst: I think that's the case, no need to preach to mutewit about it. mutewit: I did, and figured out the solution. when switching windows. mutewit: aye. I'm just trying to explain how to get the most learning out of us as well as the most working code. sometimes thinks we spend much more IRC volume discussing netiquette than actually suffering from the bad netiquette. But by the time I came back to the channel there was a whole page of "preaching". I was using a split method with array indexing and it felt too much like a C-approach. mutewit: oh, you split the string into chars? yeah, by the time you've done map, join, split, ... you've basically just reimplemented substr badly :) rindolf: That's what I was doing, but the map/substr approach is a lot cleaner. mutewit: yeah/ mutewit: split into chars sometimes has some uses. mutewit: but this reminds me too much of SICP. perlbot: sicp rindolf: http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/ - "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs" - A Classical Text on Programming mutewit: see - http://www.shlomifish.org/lecture/Perl/Lightning/Too-Many-Ways/slides/slide13.html mutewit: this is how an SICP programmer will implement a simple text processing task. SICP, love the book. and all the OCaml work this year has given rise to a functional bent of mind which is kinda screwing around with my perl code. mutewit: yeah. mutewit: http://www.shlomifish.org/lecture/Perl/Lightning/Too-Many-Ways/slides/slide12.html - this is the fastest Perl solution. At least in speed. It can be a little shorter with a regex lookahead, but it's less elegant and slower. http://www.shlomifish.org/lecture/Perl/Lightning/Too-Many-Ways/slides/slide9.html - there you go. mutewit: did you know how to program before reading SICP? I think it's not a good introductory book. MIT are going to ditch it in favour of some Python/Robotics curriculum. I think it's only a good introductory book if you know some math and have the brain to follow it it teaches a lot of hard concepts very quickly mst: from a "I'm from the humanities department" point of view it's manageable. it's not easy, but everyone can work with it. eval: $_ = "0123456789abcdefgh"; [ /(?=(.{5}))/g ] tybalt89: ["01234",12345,23456,34567,45678,56789,"6789a","789ab","89abc","9abcd","abcde","bcdef","cdefg","defgh"] rindolf: Yes. mutewit: ah. Using what? tybalt89++ # Up for the challenge. and yes, MIT ditched SICP in favor of a Python-based intro course. rindolf: I was off in other windows :( mutewit: ^^ for 5 char slices mutewit: don't use it if you want future generations to understand it. slaps tybalt89 with mst's slipper for golfing mutewit's solution and telling him it's a good idea. rindolf: that's not golfing, just common simple regex :) tybalt89: sigh. tybalt89: simple. irregular regular expression. Maybe use Regexp::Common I added in tybalt89's code but commented it for future reference. I'd definitely use the substr approach for real code tybalt89's code is cleverness to prove it can be done; I don't believe he was recommending it mst: sigh, yes, I am recommending it. It's the clearest solution. tybalt89: I respectfully disagree. I find the substr approach far more obvious rindolf, ty. :) but then, I mostly write applications perl rather than scripts, so I only engage in regexp cleverness when actively useful tybalt89: look-aheads and look-behinds are dark corners of the Perl not-so-reg-regexes In the context of this particular problem, it's pretty straightforward, but, knowledge of the development/maintenance team(s) would push my choce one way or another. mst: note it took rindolf three tries, and even then he got it wrong. tybalt89: well, I'm not focused now. tybalt89: map substr($str, $_, 5), 0 .. length($str)-5; ? maybe -6 turns the lens, trying to focus rindolf mst: -5 but it's hardly difficult; rindolf's just having a day of silly mistakes Unit tests! I'd expect him to get it right first time when on form too :) Some clear code is hard to get right. Doesn't make it less clear. yeah Most people will not write a correct binary search at first try. "maybe -6" is proof of lack of clarity. :) But the correct binary search is easy to digest. tybalt89: no, it's proof it's 8pm on a Sunday and I'm not particularly awake either but your code just made me go "hang on, WHAT?!" then I had to stop and dissect it -then- I saw what you were doing mst++ also, the substr approach displays the semantics and the reasoning whereas the regex approach displays, well, line noise, frankly mst: why don't we agree to disagree with tybalt89 ? mst: so how's the weather? ;-) #perl Freenode Slippers and Perl Worst Perl Programmer in the World is there just a way of importing the global variables in the module from the main script? no yes anno: you can using Exporter depends but I hope no one will teach you nadim: sorry. :-( from the main script? for what? nadim: about the Exporter. bad boy! papertigers: yes. but definitely don't do this: { no strict 'refs'; *{"main::$_"} = sub () { $constant{$_} } foreach keys %constant; } nadim: :-( papertigers: please design a good API using subroutines and objects. OK I get it you are all working towards the same goal. making the worst perl developer in the universe nadim: yes, someone has to outcompete me. that would be hard nadim: I'm tired of being the worst Perl hacker for 5 years straight. heh nadim: it's not easy. .me hands the black camel to rindolf nadim: it involves many commitments. rindolf: lol, true but at least it explains all the advice you have been giving hehe Khisanth: true. :-) LOL. rindolf: i dunno if anyone actually read the code to Language::Farnsworth they might think otherwise and I am not joking http://search.cpan.org/dist/Lingua-tlhInganHol-yIghun/ all! rindolf: when you can program perl like that it will be a good day to die nadim: Klingon? right nadim++ nadim: heh, nice. Klingon? http://search.cpan.org/~jwalt/Acme-Lingua-NIGERIAN-1.0.0/NIGERIAN.pm blah. squeeks's url is at http://xrl.us/bhg9bo nadim: I'll recommend it to someone so he can outcompete me. rubs his hands with an evil grin on his face. nadim: that doesn't seem to be using the correct font the module is impressing (Damian is no joke) even the documentation is great nadim: we've got a plan! hides dearly loves Damian's code but I really do wish it was all in the Acme:: namespace where it belongs mst: heh. I like his API's. very difficult to find something that is not complete and well thought nadim: yes, but he tends to neglect them and then they accumulate bugs. I could list ten other names here Ingy! nadim: heh. oops, I tried not to :) nadim: IO::All nadim: not *everything* ingy writes needs to be Acme though, yes, quite a bit of it :D mst: I didn't mean acme. I think Ingy has a lot of great ideas. oh, you're talking about maintainership yes yeah, why do you think I got so good at giving my modules away? what's your secret? ingy was responsible for jemplate, I think - still one of my favourites. nadim: first you give 'em commit bits, then you give 'em co-maint, then when they're not looking you make a run for it. makes a mental note #perl Freenode World's Worst Perl Programmer (5 years straight) One Moose Per Child My Moose-based modules emit strange errors when ran under Devel::Cover . /me is a sad kitten. When my moose emit things I begin to worry. I don't even have a moose. but I go to Ikea sometimes! "I want a Moose!" buys a Moose for Su-Shee One Moose Per Child. A moose in every.. editor? I'll have to put it in the living room. If we perldoc -f fork a Moose-based program do we get two Meese. Su-Shee: what if it's a Chocolate Moose? now it's not the elephant in the room no one's talking about, it's the moose. rindolf: real size? living room. Tycho de Brahe had a moose free running in his castle Unraniborg. he found a vat of beer, drank it, fell down a stair and had to be killed. hm, I could make a nice shower gel with moose milk powder and sell it exclusively to perl programmers. anno: the astronomer? yes anno: ah, really? anno: I don't have a castle. few do indeed. wise anno. One Castle Per Child! when I do my moose presentation, I'll rename myself to Moo-Shee. Su-Shee: and rent a Castle. good idea. on company's expenses. ;) Su-Shee: heh. anno: wanna come? I own Schloss Charlottenburg now. ;) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlottenburg_Palace - hmmm.... contemplates what to do now. RESTs. Maybe I'll watch more of Red vs. Blue. Or I'll rent Schloss Charlottenburg . Or something. I may want to refactor the other parts of XML-Grammar-Fiction/Screenplay. I can live without testcover. But I need my Moose. #perl Freenode One Moose Per Child Do we have any doctors? Do we have any doctors in here? dxtr: with Ph.D. or M.D.? I have a PhD in Linguistics! ^ lie :] rindolf: I don't care as long as they can treat patients dxtr: heh. :o webmd.com might be better than #perl rindolf: That question would be fun in combat. "WE NEED A DOCTOR HERE!" - "PH.D OR M.D!?" #perl Freenode Do we have any doctors in here? It's slower eval: my $txt = "this is a test"; my $rslt = substr($txt, 4, length($txt) - 4, undef); [ $txt, $rslt ]; tm604: ["this"," is a test"] ^ can anyone suggest a neater way of writing that? thought undef for the 3rd substr parameter would work instead of explicitly giving a length. eval: my $txt = "this is a test"; my $rslt = substr($txt, 4, - 4, q{}); [ $txt, $rslt ]; rindolf: ["thistest"," is a "] Just surprised that omitting the length for substr isn't the same as passing undef. tm604: sometimes perl makes a difference between "not specified" and undef tm604: wouldn't regexp be shorted? I'm not sure what passes as 'neat' in perl :) shorter, even... eval: @s = ("Long string this is a test" =~ m{\A(.{0,6})(.*?)\z}ms); [@s] rindolf: ["Long s","tring this is a test"] tm604: will that work? rindolf: thanks, that may be a better option. tm604: nice. :-) that would definitely not be "better" ... it's slower ;) hmm, since I'm passing this through SOAP::Lite through a VPN on the other side of the world maybe three times a day, I think I'll have to rewrite this part in highly-efficient x64 assembler with fallback to GPU if available. nah you need an FPGA #perl Freenode Mission critical fast Surviving without "a"'s may be neat, but hard to follow not fore real code qubit: cute. *anno how did you get.. ah. ;) Botje: clean your a so you don't slide to the q ;) Su-Shee: switch from qwerty to azerty :p :) and I'm distracted steals Botje's a while he's distracted anyway... give th.t b.ck!! lAlAlAlaaaaah! :) how will i cope without .n . key! "h".chr(ord('b')-1)."t"... 4in't th4t good enough *hehe* ;) take anno's. ;) time for 4n 4cme module! god what have I done.. ;) lipogrammatical perl. is that the opposite of lowfat c? (lipograms are works with one letter not used...) ah. of course. it's leipogramm in German.. hmm... lipos - fat, lipein - lack ah, leipein #perl Freenode Surviving without the letter "a". What would your nickname imply wait, people use binary packages in freebsd? fedoragirl, pkg_add -rv <package_name> I thought everyone compiled from source manually or from ports :( No, not any more I knew it was possible I just didn't realize anyone would actually do that I thought it was a gimmick those wacky devil worshippers over at freebsd it's funny because my roommate is into demonology and she actually uses fedora while I, for the most part, use freebsd or debian yet your nickname would imply otherwise my nickname implies a lot of things bsdgirl would just attract far too much attention EdwardIII: thanking you for pointing out the obvious. I think, no one would have noticed otherwise. come to mention it maybe I'll take that nickname arf arf bsdgirl is actually taken and I really should find a new one hats <3 -NickServ- debiangirl is not registered. man, lucky for us women, there more distributions out there than women in computing. we can ALL have our own nick! Su-Shee++ # roflmao Su-Shee: heh. yggdrasilgirl, slackgirl, fromscratchgirl .. imagine the possibilities. slackboy sounds pretty sexy #perl Freenode What would your nickname imply The browser for the social web LumberCartel: hi, what's up? Long time. Hi rindolf. Yeah, it has been quite some time. I've been very busy setting up and supporting networks, and creating interactive web sites (written in Perl, using PostgreSQL for the database; good stuff like that). How are you? LumberCartel: I have a job. rindolf: Congratulations! What are you doing for work? LumberCartel: I'm doing Perl+Catalyst work for a Tel Aviv based startup. rindolf: Very nice! LumberCartel: and been working on Freecell Solver ( http://fc-solve.berlios.de/ ) and http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/projects/black-hole-solitaire-solver/ I converted the Black Hole Solitaire solver to C and it is now running faster, so I ran it on the first 1 million PySolFC deals. About 86% of them are solvable. Freecell solver? What are you trying to do? Make employees feel even more bored at their already-so-boring-that-they-play-Freecell jobs? Heheh. LumberCartel: they should learn programming and help me with Freecell Solver. Then they won't be bored. heheh. is going to delete ~/.flock/ - useless piece of sh*t. Isn't Flock that thing that spun off from Netscape? LumberCartel: Flock is the browser for the social web. Yeah, that's the one. LumberCartel: only I found it to be the unsocial browser . social web? A handful of my customers still use Netscape 9. They tried Flock, and hated it. Or is it Netscape 8? Ah, I don't care. Most of my clients use Opera or Firefox these days. LumberCartel: Netscape 9... laughs in appreciation for the version of Netscape. #perl Freenode The browser for the social web Revision Numbers jawnsy: no version numbers of what? rindolf: version numbers for your documentation stuff. like a way to download the web site as a tarball, with a version number (maybe even a date) jawnsy: ah. jawnsy: I'm using Subversion for it. jawnsy: I can start making releases with version numbers. subversion revision numbers are not the same as version numbers, and typically shouldn't be used to source version numbers. unless you don't care that the version number is totally meaningless. In that case, you might as well use a date so it can at least mean *something* tag: Let's use UUIDS! oh, like git? yeah it's the same "Dude, version 91239213912ASD!@#ASDASDADS!@#!@!" is totally superior to "124912312ASD1242412FF232" They have no real value, other than the ability to uniquely identify a something buu: LOL. well, git's sha1 sum at least identify a point in time tag: I won't use subversion rev numbers. without telling you jack shit about what that something is To be fair, svn numbers increase.. buu: yes, but an earlier branch can have a later rev number. buu: I think Config-IniFiles used CVS revisions as version numbers. rindolf: Uh oh rindolf: I feel the world around me collapsing. #perl Freenode Discussing revision numbers SOAP Hello; Is there a perl module that can all a routine with complex typed defined in a WSDL file? Glanzmann: You mean a SOAP client with WSDL support? WSDL as in SOAP and WSDL? then there is SOAP::WSDL. Debolaz: Yes, but I need to write a server as well. :-) Su-Shee: Okay. I'll try that one. Glanzmann: Didn't your mother ever tell you to not use SOAP? :) Yes, she did. I'm unlucky. I'm forced to use it. SOAP - you still feel dirty afterwards. keeps scrubbing but doesn't feel clean f00li5h: let me send you one of my handmade hemp-sheabutter-almond oil-babassu soaps. ;) sheabutter! we're disabling our SOAP stuff. it only gets more complicated every day. #perl Freenode SOAP Eclipsed Is there an IDE for Perl? I need to debug some of my code. kleanchap: well there's Padre, but you'll spend as long trying to install it ... kleanchap, perl has a debugger: perl -d There's always Komodo. I use Notepad++, but as people here will attest, I suck. perlbot: ide rindolf: Padre - padre.perlide.org, Komodo, Eclipse (with EPIC), KDevelop, X/GNU Emacs, gvim, TextMate; see also http://perl.net.au/wiki/Perl_developer_tools and definitely not Xcode kleanchap: ^^^ kleanchap: and it's in the FAQ for crying out loud. anno: yes. Zaba, rindolf and Altreus - thanks! definitely not Xcode? but.. but... but... I went to all the effort to make http://github.com/squeeks/Xcode-Perl-File-Templates kleanchap: I can recommend perl -d as well. is perl+eclipse any good? oh right I remember I wanted a vim plugin for $IDE and none of them worked "is...eclipse any good" what squeeks: valid question >:( eclipse seems to be one of those platforms which make me wonder what processor development has really achieved in the last 20 years. it means you can do more shit really really slowly "Gosh, I can still type faster than this, something is very wrong in the universe" "Gosh, eclipse killed the dev database through sheer numbers of DB connections" I'd rather spend time programming, not sitting on my hands while eclipse decides it might work today If I wanted to sit on my hands, I'd be using C++ ;) "I hear eclipse is really nice, but I'm still waiting for it to load" "Gosh, eclipse's spell checker got confused between cvs and csv." kent\n: swordfights kent\n: so you could effectively hit your head against the keyboard eclipse: What your momma causes when she stands up written using eclipse's help: sub look_mom_I_can_parse_HTML_with_regex { $_[0] =~ /HTML/ } What was that comment that went something along the lines of "I'm a grown up now, I can eat raw cookie dough and parse HTML with regular expressions" thinks he should compile a list of things to bash and make it a factoid. PHP, Eclipse, Microsoft, # there's a start #perl Freenode Eclipsed Paint of the Bikeshed Regarding perlipc.pod : in the beginning of the sentence should I write "N.B. If the signal is fired, something bad happens." or "N.B.: if the signal is fired, something bad happens." ? With the colon, please. :) talexb: I see. talexb: and a lowercase "if"? No, I think that could be upper case .. talexb: I thought so too, but the original was the other way. it's a sentence unto itself. talexb: but it's after a colon. talexb: a colon does not start a new sentence. I dunno. My degree's in Engineering, not English. :( For me, the colon says, "Thing to the left is the title, thing to the right is the content. talexb: OK, thanks anyway. rindolf: I'd capitalize "If" rindolf: how about just 'Note:' \o/ sdgvf: because he wants to "Note Well:" not just "Note:" :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colon_(punctuation), 'Use of capitals' Note well: ... most people, even if they know what N.B. stands for, aren't going to note it a whole lot harder than if it just says Note: Bikeshedding. PerlJam: according to Zaba's wikipedia link, it should not be capitalised. what it's for nota bene? rindolf: My reading of the article is inconclusive as to what it "should" be. It seems to all depend on who's manual of style you subscribe to. Su-Shee: yes if a real sentence which could stand for its own follows, I start with a capital letter. if not, I don't. By the way: Don't forget what colour you'd like the bike shed painted. talexb: "color" ;-> Pffffffft. ;) Wait.. we're -painting- the bikeshed now? Nobody ever mentioned paint before... LeoNerd And you're head of the committee to choose the new COLOUR. "first we choose the color, then we choose the paint." (from my English teacher at school.. :) $ perl -MConvert::Color -E'say Convert::Color->new("bikeshed")->as_rgb->rgb' => Unable to parse color name bikeshed at -e line 1 doesn't the paint type preclude the colour choice? and paint manufacturer? Hehe.. Now we're arguing about the process of bikeshedding.. Go meta :) LeoNerd: you read my mind and now I mention that, were' metameta something Taking things a *little* too literally. kent\n: it's a lesson to illustrate that color and paint are two different things... Colour is very complex problem... A lot of computer-type techies think it's just an RGB triplet, or maybe a triplet in some other space... And anyway, Google's just patented the primary colours in their logo. But mauve is still available. For good reason. LeoNerd: luckily, I've learned "color" by actual "paint". ;) Yeah, it matters about what's in the proximity of the bikeshed, perceptual colour :( German uses the same word for color and paint, so we need to be taught the difference same with shadow and shade takes anno out back to "teach him a lesson" anno: excellent example. same with freedom and liberty. wonders if the bikeshed has to be colourblind safe wonders what colour a duck blind is. Oh. Camouflage. Never mind. camouflage. you've just introduced French into the discussion ;) talexb: what colours are blind ducks painted though? wait till we start painting our words, bikeshed synaesthesia sounds like a win. #perl Freenode Which paint do you want your bikeshed? COBOL and Slices it was someone asking for help with *python* man-in-the-middle script in a Perl channel. persistently why can't they figure out we're all about COBOL in here? :( Nah, Metallica rcsheets: They seem to be skipping the IDENTIFICATION DIVISION. dngor: kids these days, always skimming rcsheets: LOL I would give him the cliffs notes to the channel, but I'm from a very flat region. rcsheets: I remember someone once coming in to this channel asking how to port a Perl program into Cobol D: bwahahaha really? yes that's... that's... horrid maybe they were off their medication heh that's like asking to port a GUI to an adding machine I am so glad all the drugs, alcohol and therapy have managed to destroy all my memories of COBOL i need to implement a restful web app on my abacus Mimisbrunnr: lol rcsheets: it could be done - but we will need a lot of booze get me drunk enough, I'll program on anything including your cat Mimisbrunnr: can we do the booze part without the COBOL/abacus/etc? BinGOs: indeed.... I did Cobol way back, and it's not something I care to go back to Though I do still shudder subconsciously whilst watching BSG BinGOs: the original or the newer one? rcsheets - deal Whenever they go on about the gods of COBOL. Ya R’lyeh! COBOL fhtagn! Huh? what does @array[$arg] mean in p5? it's an array slice or a slice of pie one of those mmm a warnable offence array slice, a la mode for pie? warn if pie; ? heh oh I see warn "Pie's done!" if defined $pie; pcard: never warn if pie; rejoice if pie ah say "mmmmm, pie!" well, warning when it's done could make sense, inasmuch as you don't want to burn it rcsheets: yeah, like bell/beeper on an oven yes then the rejoice would be triggered when it's cool enough to eat sleep until ( $pie eq 'done' ); it's still up to the baker to actually turn off the oven and remove the pie hrmm, wait no, I would never wake up Mimisbrunnr: there you go aww doh #perl Freenode COBOL and Slices Who is Spartacus? (I'm not huskypaw. I swear... :) Me neither. I'm also not Spartacus. is Spartacus. just is. I have E-mail again, too. I think you're a figment of my imagination. fizztpok: I'm still Spartacus. fizztpok: out of all the possible people that could exist you imagined *rindolf* ?! mst: LOL. mst++ yay, I found my Perl-tshirt. stunix: pics, please. #!/usr/bin/perl -w use strict; stunix: don't flood. with the camel on the back. rindolf: I'm not flooding. stunix: -w is out of date. stunix: you need a new T-shirt :) fizztpok: now I have to go and kill you ... t-shirt update Khisanth: :-) mst: I don't use "-w" myself, but I use strict; :) stunix: use strict; use warnings; is a figment of #perl's collective imagination. rindolf was too far away but you seem to be on the same continent at least rindolf: now that I could believe. haha there's a name for this I saw a wikipedia article on it the belief that the universe is your mind's creation solipsism can't be disproved #perl Freenode Spartacus and T-shirts VXZ Trolling on #perl Greeting all. How do I get this script working with mirc? I want it to take over the network and serve warez. I found it in some random dark corner of the web from 1998 and I don't want to learn perl to fix it. Also, why aren't my php regexes working on html? Oh crap my parents are home. :3 you've been here before, I can tell VXZ: I want to ban you, but it's too grand a troll ... i have to admire it for a time #perl Freenode VXZ Trolling on #perl The Evil Overlords of #perl bamccaig_, yeah. Then you can look at Try::Tiny like preaction said and treat DBI's deaths as exceptions. Or use eval {}. preaction said Try::Tiny is cleaner and I guess I'm gonna trust him on that. HA HA HA THAT WAS YOUR FIRST MISTAKE! ;) preaction, the second is not noticing you completely rewrite Try::Tiny so my computer blows up? :P nanonyme: no, it's letting me build my atomic supermen so that i can win at basketball against the jesters of dunk, the Harlem Globetrotters i am no comic-book supervillain, my plans are even more convoluted! that means they're better and are sure to work! like George Clooney in Ocean's Eleven distributes copies of the evil overlord list what? where am i on this list? I demand a reissue! oh, wait, here i am. in the footnote "slightly less-evil overlords". preaction, underlords? :p #lessambitiousperlprogrammers wonderlords. press button. get perl. #perl Freenode Perl Ninjas, Pirates, and Zombies /w/w 55 ..fail gives alyx an award for failing that so much \o/ hangs it up in the almighty fail closet alyx: :-) rindolf: :D 55 chat windows are too much. ;) amen! I keep my irssi trimmed to < 30 I have 3. ;) Botje: o_o I have 56 windows at the moment, before I cleaned up a bit, I was at ~150. ._. One friend in each window, and you have 56 times more friends than me. bah. I like to have real conversations and to really follow a handful of channels and that's it.. alyx: wow. Is there away i can look up my modules with cpan that i have installed? if i am right. wow. facebook has a chat too. perldoc -q installed Su-Shee: you can use a Jabber client for that. DrForr++ gets annoyed when he exceeds 19 windows. We should create a #perl <-> StackOverflowish interface. after gotten angry, I don't use my jabber stuff any more as well ;) rindolf, Feel free to make a shitoverflow interface. Just don't put it here. apeiron: :-) no, not :-) more like /ban *!*@* who needs all those chats... People with very empty lives. well it fills empty windows.. ;) or, there's recently chat rockstars and chat ninjas.. ;) but you don't /see/ chat ninjas! that's why I have so few channels.. no ninja chatting with me.. Not that you *know* of. http://www.nichtlustig.de/toondb/100701.html # relevant Title of Botje's link: NICHTLUSTIG damn. what if a ninja is asking me out and I don't get it because it's an invisible conversation? Botje: harhar ;) Su-Shee: if dinner suddenly appears you just married a ninja in a secret, hidden ceremony? Botje: was I there? how was I? ;) Su-Shee: your inner ninja will detect it and go on the date, if you have one. pragma_: ah. interesting. so I'll find myself suddenly in some ninja-restaurant and don't remember how I got there? DrForr: mintty seems nice DrForr: there's also puttycyg It is, but 3 days in a row I've hit that same key combo, and I can't reset it in the dialog box. Su-Shee: no, your ninja will be there while your you remains oblivious Ninjas. :-) This is why ninjas engage in rigorous 24/7 training of their Ninjutsu; so that they may be more in touch with their inner ninjas and be more aware of what it is doing. pragma_: so I stay an idiot no matter what. ;) your idiot remains an idiot forever, but you can train your non-idiot to overpower your idiot. But... shouldn't your inner ninja be hidden? DrForr: KiTTy also has the PuttyCyg patch, and only needs the cthelper.exe from PuttyCyg When you have attained true enlightenment of the ninja, then you too will become like the hidden tiger and will enjoy the pleasures of the crouching dragon. www.askainnerninja.com I better not google pleasures of the crouching dragon.. DrForr: No match for "ASKAINNERNINJA.COM". DrForr: go ahead ;) would be ask -an- inner ninja. also no match ;) *lol* askdrninja.com is taken ;) there's also drmcninja well we could always chose to go down the rockstar path... choose. We should become Perl pirates. Arrrrrrrrrr! hands rindolf an eyepatch Unleash your inner buccaneer. "I'm Guybrush Threepwood. Mighty Pirate." Yeah, I've been doing that for ages. .oO(Johnny Depp.. hm.. ;) And Keira Knightley. What does '.oO' mean? woldrich: saying something. Like a talk balloon. Maybe a thought balloon? . o ( This is a thought balloon. ) oh. I'm too old for this shit woldrich: it doesn't matter as long as you're young at heart. And there are no young Perl programmers. ;-) prefers his heart matured and fortified. As "Perl is dead." prefers his hearts barbecued Well, that wasn't very funny. I wouldn't really call mst "old" ;) zombie perl Su-Shee: I know a Perl programmer who's now a university freshman. sends zombie kindergarteners after rindolf well dr dobbs agrees. Knew him since he was in Junior high. apeiron: :-) perl eats your brains. trains the zombie kindergarteners to be mighty Perl zombie pirates! I've always been annoyed by the lack of zombie children running around in Left4Dead, et al. mighty* pragma_: shooting kids is bad mmkay At least Dead Space 2 has mutant baby toddlers you can stomp like fattened mosquitoes. but these would be dead kids undead very important distinction! hmm well really neither, just bags of disease Perl vampires! would rather be a werewolf. Khisanth, every source I've read says zombies are undead. so there. shoots pragma_ with the silver bullet. the l4d ones aren't really zombies :) they're more like 28 days later-style zombies eh, modern games get everything wrong. That girl in Resident Evil is cute. recommends "the walking dead" L4D, Resident Evil, Dead Space -- these are all "zombies" despite however they came to be such! yes, walking dead is <3 I haven't seen the new resident evil movie yet, was it good? oh yes it had milla shooting stuff what more do you want? I was thinking of the Resident Evil 5 video game actually Botje: multiple millas shooting stuff? System Shock plot. thought-provoking themes. khisanth++ pragma_++ # yes! System Shock 2 my first-born for a system shock movie (done decently, that is) nuzzles Botje Botje: since when do you have a firstborn? aagh! zomb.. oh. hi kit! Su-Shee: i will have! Botje: probably won't be done nicely :P #perl Freenode Digits in Variable Names which perldoc for doing stuff with arrays? want to copy all but first of one array to another perldoc perldsc Or just (undef,@new) = @old; Also $old[1..$#old] Of course TIMTOWTDI... Well, @old[1..$#old] I think in perl 6 you can do @old[1..*-1] @a2 = @a1[1..$#a1]? not perl6in yet jim: yes, but with different names. jim: else you want an array or a hash of arrays. perlbot: varvarname rindolf: Why it's stupid to `use a variable as a variable name' - http://perl.plover.com/varvarname.html wait, are you sure mine is wrong? jim: it's not wrong per-se, just a red flag. what's the flag? jim: varvarname. note I said @a->2<- = ... jim: well, it's like doing my ($x1,$x2,$x3,$x4...) - better use an array. Assuming you want that. Yes, what is the difference between @a2 and @a1? What is their significance? @a1 is a complete list of phone numbers, @a2 is a list of phone numbers not yet uploaded to the phone @phone_numbers! it's like that in the code oh, okay I'm just not typing that crap into the irc window as irc isn't the most wonderful medium for posting code believe me, my variable names from 20 years ago tell me what they are for var_name_from_20_years_ago_you_re_still_not_taking_out_the_damn_trash I'm not necessarily at liberty to specify exactly what I'm doing even though I did so in this case otherwise the mafia arranges a boaking accident? worse; nobody expects the Spanish inquisition! I'm going crazy without buubot. Where is he and buu? well the way you're acting doesn't exactly induce the greatest amount of openness jim: I apologise. jim: we may have erred in this. Oh man, buubot is gone>? jim: yes! jim: for the time being. Don't know where buu is. that's been one useful bot eval: @a=1..4; (undef,@b)=@a; \@b mfontani: [2,3,4] jim: You've got several answers already. Do they not satisfy? perlbot: define boaking rindolf: No factoid found. Did you mean one of these: [debian perldoc] [define vrby : vrby] jim: I think simcop has put the buubot code on github or something like that. Well, good night @everyone. An array . DrForr: they do... it's all this stuff afterwards that has me closing, "Spanish inquisition", "mafia break a leg"... it's just unnecessary rindolf: thanks jim: well, we sometimes enjoy having fun. Shrug. You're the one that brought up "may not be at liberty..." jim: seems like thrig's main function, aside from being the benevolent dictator of #perl, is to interject short jokes. I make jokes about tall people, too rindolf: yea i have thrig: :-) perlbot: source simcop2387: check out my insides (I'm based off buubot, so ask him for his source if you really want to start); http://github.com/simcop2387/perlbuut/ or go to http://github.com/simcop2387/buubot/ We can have notbuubot or buubot2 or something. Well, buubot2 is varvarname. ;-) it's not going to be @buubot thrig: LOL. #perl Freenode Digits in Variable Names When to use XML and Popcorn? http://scsys.co.uk:8002/87521 i know I'm not supposed to be using XML::Simple but it's only one statement in the program designerjean: is it causing problems? yes, and it's the one that makes the $config you can't work out how to use maybe mst: :-) your exact problem is "unable to use the results of XML::Simple" because you're stupid and XML::Simple is shit please switch to XML::Twig ok thanks people still use xml? dhoss: it's a dirty job, but it pays. i guess there's that another case of stupid youth designerjean: how old are you dhoss: well, I'm using XML for some stuff willingly. dhoss: JSON wouldn't have been usable. rindolf: i guess that's a legit reason Because I use them for text and stuff like that. And it's hard to do something like <p>Hello <b>dhoss</b>!</p> in JSON. I think its mainly amongst web programmers where JSON is appreciated the most. rokoteko: JSON has many valid uses. XML has none XML is for putting attribute markup within a stream of text. rindolf: yea i can see that. JSON is more useful in a cross language barrier bit where markup isn't needed (mostly because it came out of SGML) DuClare: not true. XML is very widely used. that's like saying "I don't need to know Java, because the language sucks" .. rindolf: you're mixing semantics with style here anyways. that would be bad xml. Su-Shee: I was giving an illustrative example. rindolf: then give a proper one. that was exactly how NOT to XML. Su-Shee: besides , I think that <b> has some valid, semantic meaning. And it's also shorter than <strong></strong> Su-Shee: ok. rindolf: no. bold doesn't mean "be bold and courageous here". it means "print this shit in bold typeface" <p>Hello <name>Su-Shee</name>!</p> XML is useful for wrapping and annotating text. XML is only useful for wrapping and annotating text if you use a properly designed application of XML and everyone reading the document agrees on what the meaning is. XTML vs XDML could derive from XML. (text and data respectively). then of course you should be able to embed XDML in XTML. oh wait. I'm thinking aloud. rokoteko: I've recently played with an XML-specific compression tool. rokoteko: it achieved better compression than xz -9 --extreme but OTOH mishandled some «"» not inside attributes - converting them to &quot; rindolf: what requirements are you trying to meet by compressing xml? smaller XML docs :) rokoteko: well, to reduce the size. well, doh. but why? rokoteko: like over the Net, etc. rokoteko: it's like gzip compression/decompression. rindolf: I yet fail to see the point. :( Only domain-specific. why? And if you have a lot of it it occupies less on the hard disk. Ah. you have like SHITLOADS of XML ? It could happen. Java... anyone who deals with XML probably has that much ;) Well, disk is pretty cheap. I don't have too much XML. Well, maybe a lot of XHTML. I was just curious about rindolf's use case. I was afraid that he was storing some binary data in XML. :) I think he was just experimenting with technology Yes, I probably have more disk wasted on .mp3's and .flv's. rokoteko: I have some interest in compression methods. rokoteko: back from high school. rindolf: :) if you're the company who's transferring 120 years of documents of a car company into something flexible - THEN you have a shitload of XML. There have been some recent advancements. So just out of curiosity, that's fine with me. :) I'm just nosy sometimes. rokoteko: I think the wikipedia XML dump is pretty large. I find it's usually safe to assume that whatever rindolf's doing, there isn't a good reason for it. rokoteko: there was some stuff about processing it quickly using Perl, etc. mst: :-) mst++ # Nice burn. popcorn anyone? ;) mst: but it has a huge grain of truth in it I admit. Su-Shee: microwave popcorn? I don't have a microwave and I was being sarcastic... I need a smiley for that. Su-Shee: ah. rindolf-shaped, obviously. Su-Shee: yes, I was playing along. why not an XML-conform </sarcasm> ? prepares some popcorn and shares it with Su-Shee using the Popcorn-over-IRC protocol. What's this about burnt popcorn? Popcorn-over-IRC also preserves the butter taste. you're getting my keyboard all greasy ew, butter And it also supports multicasting popcorn. butter++ though not so much butter that it makes the popcorn soggy. I hate that. #perl Freenode XML and Popcorn The Ultimate Goal of One's Programming i think I'm too critical to be a programmer ... rp21: do you mean you're too perfectionist? yeah sure. there's something like "too good code". Su-Shee: print "Hello World!\n"; - that's good code. Or maybe say "Hello World!"; Can't be improved. hey, why did my nick change? yes it may be perfectionism rp2: ah, sucks. E.g.: i want to get all columns from a database table in Perl now my problem is that i want to write code that works with a variety of databases and both on windows and Linux it seems that as soon as i have found a way to overcome a particular restriction, i mentally add another and spend my time trying to overcome that too, sometimes losing track of the reason i started the script rp2: heh. if i were a better programmer I'd get through the hurdles quicker and end up with solvesworldhunger.pl except that I'd probably finish Perl 7 to write it in first rp2: well, some of my programs outgrow their original purpose too. rp2: :-D except that it'd never get finished because I'd first fix the OSes it's supposed to run on, etc etc raaaah! rp2: you should hire Chuck Norris. yes Chuck Norris can end world hunger, but he thinks that hungry people make humanity a more challenging adversary. If everyone had enough to eat, it would be too easy for him. ;-) Chuck Norris also writes understandable perl code... *scnr* mino: LOL. mino: Chuck Norris can read Perl code that was RSA encrypted. rindolf: is there any difference to unencrypted one? :P mino: not to Chuck. #perl Freenode Solving World Hunger using Perl CPAN Module Namer in Distress Su-Shee: http://scsys.co.uk:8002/91935 <== see if that runs That's my "static" demo LeoNerd: what is Tickit? Heh... Terminal Interface Construction KIT rindolf: a terminal application's widget set Think "GTK" for terminals Su-Shee: ah. LeoNerd: like Curses::UI? Only better, perhaps? Sort of, only not using Curses. :) LeoNerd: ah. ok, first I need food. Interesting. Also, I'm not that familiar with Curses::UI but I didn't think it was widget-based..? LeoNerd: I have this example open. I think Tickit is not too good a name either. Well. *shrug* emails some Shawarma to Su-Shee. rindolf: did we ask to judge the name? ;) rindolf: If you want to judge all my naming you can respond to all my blog posts tagged "module naming" Make sure you uncompress it or you won't be able to eat it. :-) And then if people complain I'll send them your way LeoNerd: ah, my blogs aggregator is off. http://leonerds-code.blogspot.com/search/label/module%20naming LeoNerd: so we can form the "People unhappy with LeoNerd's names support group"? You can if you like.. I'm not. :) "Hi! My name is rindolf and I think LeoNerd picks up awful names for his modules." "Hello rindolf! We all love you!" LOL. JESUS WHO CARES HOW A WIDGET SET IS CALLED?! Indeed.. LeoNerd: name the next one pink fluffy bunny. Su-Shee: THE NAME IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING!111 Hell, we have a popular OO framework named after a large Swedish animal with antlers on Would you use Linux if it was called 386BSD? OK, it could be much worse. LeoNerd: well so the name of a Moose based (there already was a Moose before Perl's Moose by Smalltalk, BTW..) widget set will be Ikea. only uses operating systems that have been named after big cats Su-Shee: that may infringe on a trademark. #perl Freenode What's in a name? How Much Infinity do you need? rindolf: you can make a processor in minecraft yes Altreus: ah, OK. a computer in a computer Let's write a Perl->Minecraft compiler. very meta Implementing a Turing complete interpreter inside a VM is not hard. vi keystrokes (not vimscript) are also Turing complete. As is the Game of Life and infinite Minesweeper rindolf: I can almost imagine GoL, but how is minesweeper going to be Turing complete? nuts that always worked for me maybe you have to log in at least once bah jettero: http://web.mat.bham.ac.uk/R.W.Kaye/minesw/ jettero: I have not read the paper. jettero: of course, true Turing completeness is only possible with infinite memory. Ah OK hands rindolf an infinite hotel, and books every even room f00li5h: :-) books every odd room that is divided by three. f00li5h: is it א_0, א_1 or something more infinite? it's as infinite as it can be! f00li5h: ah, good. f00li5h: then I can book room pi. Or sqrt(2). you sure can. Nice. but you might like something a little more spacious Ah. like the rooms between 1 and 2 Which room do you recommend? Ah. what about sqrt(-1)? plenty of space there j_wright: that room's popular, I'd imagine it's booked the biggest problem is allotting extensions on the room phones my infinite hotel's rooms have two numbers each, being a point on the complex plane it increases address lookup time also the hotel happens to be all one floor so that helps so they get two sets of addresses? polar too take the ⧜th left, and then head down ∞th right no just one each room is unique or turn n degrees and go m forward oh yes I suppose you could map their addresses to a new coordinate space but that's true of any plane with a landmark the car park is at 0,i, for your information #perl Freenode The Infinite Hotel Perl Shrinks mst: would you like to talk about your problems now too? PerlJam? How's your marriage? Anyone recently went alcoholic? Also, would you all like to know how about my father? ;) use less qw(acid); hugs Su-Shee ... a little too tightly. less acid | more perl PerlJam: for sarcasm? ;) that's new :) Su-Shee: It's the #perl6 in me. ETOOMANYHUGS :) PerlJam: HARHAR :) Su-Shee: heh. Su-Shee++ # good burn. Su-Shrink. Su-Shee: your nick has multiple hidden meanings. Su-Shee: will you sell it for 3 oz. of gold? #perl Freenode Su-Shrink How Can I Switch off the T.V. - #perl style

(This bit was posted anonymously to a pastebot on 23 March, 2011. It is placed here for posterity after some editing.)

Question: how can I switch off my TV?

What he wants to hear? For example: Locate on/off button your TV remote a press it. The button is usually red and located at the topmost line on the remote.

The #perl expert's answer: First, what do you mean with "switch off"? Define it first. Nopaste your TV, TV remote and the living room too.

After a nopaste:

Your room is ugly. And the TV looks terrible. Use Mr. Clean on the screen and clean your living room first. Use three cleaning mops instead of two. Use HDMI and never use scart (?) connectors, unless you really want to. Your TV remote has unreadable buttons, clean up first. You're a beginner, so read:

IRC guest: But, i don't want be a TV expert.

Answer: Why do you want to switch the TV on then?!

Anonymous Pastebin Paste Cats in Soviet Russia Mithaldu: I think most contemporary T.V. kinda sucks. Mithaldu: it seems very phony. rindolf: same, i haven't actually switched on my tv in five years I prefer a YouTube video of a kitten riding on a turtle. Mithaldu: :-) :D Mithaldu: yes. Mithaldu: there is one, BTW. oh i do not doubt that Don't know if it's authentic. I saw a friendly cat today, and he purred after I scratched his head. I like Friendly cats. I think lolcats are very subversive. Or were. "Ceiling cat is watching you" cats are the definition of subversive they adopt you Mithaldu: heh. In Soviet Russia, cats own you! In Soviet Russia, cats are your master! Well, in Soviet Russia and everywhere. rindolf: you got it backwards. In soviet russia, cats are actually your pets. hahaha kent\n: heh. kent\n++ I feel better now. Empowered but calm. Thanks to the cats jokes. world healing by cat jokes Hopefully, I'll sleep well tonight. Next on the agenda. DICK JOKES! Mithaldu: cats are good for healing I think. kent\n: NO!!!!! ( don't worry, this won't take long ) yes, as long as you do not own cables kent\n: you mean it won't BE very long hurr hurr kent\n: I've got 99 problems but kent\n ain't one. ;) #perl-cats Freenode Cats in Soviet Russia Violent Cats and Astrology paws at apeiron hisses at f00li5h pounces on that WinstonSmith critter scratches that f00li5h and hides under the sofa gets a bucket of cold water. meows at f00li5h quickly before Su-Shee comes with that water blasts WinstonSmith with a firehose garbl grbl garblll shakes fist at 'variable length lookbehind not supported' also shakes fist at $CLIENT speccing against a regex a stupid jQuery dev wrote instead of the well-tested module you can change it into (?: | | | ) in at least some cases jumps on top of the wardrobe, dries himself and glares menacingly at Khisanth THIS IS WHY WE USE THE MODULES, DAMNIT, BECAUSE APEIRON SUCKS AT REGEX THIS IS ALSO WHY APEIRON SUCKS AT REGEX IS THIS WHY WE ARE SHOUTING? grabs an apeiron and throws it at WinstonSmith I get shouty when $CLIENTs spec stupidity. @CLIENT? $CLIENTs? got shout at client then :) nuzzles apeiron to calm him down WinstonSmith, that doesn't remove the stupidity from the spec.=\ apeiron, maybe the stupidity is in $CLIENT ? yes, I know that. considers the nuzzling having effect - he disabled the caps key ; -) just shouts into loudbot Cat violence! Felix Felini Lupus est! felix perlus aggressivus! WinstonSmith: Latin! rindolf, pseudo! WinstonSmith: yes, true. Mock-Latin. ah so you have pseudo in English? How do you say "A cat to a cat is a wolf" in Latin? WinstonSmith: there is pseudo there. leo ripanus ! SpiceWork: what does that mean? Leo is lion, right? leo is the king no idea. a wine I loved, but year that followed sucked. LeoNerd. leonidas *the year that Correct /nick TauNerd /nick TaurusNerd European wine quality varies too much :\ Hehe.. I could go through all the zodiac signs :) /nick CapricornNerd LeoNerd, /nick FishNerd? Somehow that doesn't have the same ring to it... Pices surely? Pisces. Er, yes.. them :) I don't believe in Astrology because I'm a Taurus and Tauri never believe in Astrology. </old-joke> ...Lol. is a Leo-Shee. Su-Shee: ah, you're a Leo too? I don't exactly /follow/ Astrology, but I believe some horoscopes hit spot on. They're vague enough to apply to anyone. Simplicity: there was something about a survey where people read the Astrological forecast either before or after the week, and those that read it afterwards said it did not happen to them. well I choose only the good one and manipulate the day accordingly ;) Heh Su-Shee++ I was really disappointed on how superstitious Japanese people are at first. then I stopped idolizing them :p but I'm a firm believer in component manipulation anyways ;) apeiron: I didn't want to go there as to not offend any possible believers. I find them interesting. Usually they're completely off the mark, but just occasionally they give me something interesting to think about, something to focus my mind on.. reminding me something I sort of knew anyway Simplicity, If people can't tolerate the truth, they shouldn't be on the internet. :) apeiron, OMG there is truth on the internetz? yes! WinstonSmith: Everything you read on the Internet is true! double-facepalms i knew all that stuff about the lizard people couldn't be a lie notches the paranoia up WinstonSmith: The only "lizard people" I have ever heard about are the Illuminati. Simplicity, well Cheney was on of them ;-) #perl Freenode Nobody heard of Perlian cats Paid version of CPAN Let’s start a paid version of cpan same exact modules but charge for them add Pro:: namespace no, Enterprise:: haha yes the longer the better 402 Payment required more official Drmauke That site just sets off alarm bells here. CPAY the fact that any code is obfuscated greatly bring into question the quality of it base64 or otherwise the funny thing is that if this was real I bet some firms would use it #perl Freenode There's no such thing as a free download. Whitespace in Python whitespace in python is not a problem, just lay out all the whitespace first, then add the code around it #perl Freenode Whitespace in Python Interesting vs. Successful

There's a negative correlation between “interesting” and “successful”.

Anno on Freenode's #perl Sweat glorious meeting this morning cl0ud: hi. cl0ud rindolf cl0ud: sup? chillin cl0ud: yes, it is chilly here. moves his services to the cl0ud we live in a cloud world So, loudbot has 10k tweets Pratty sweat railbait_lite: sweet? Yeah Gotta make you sweat. haha Yeah meant to make it sound weird Thus the "pretty" misspelling as well Sweat Beat. Like Lemon Demon. haha loudbot: TWITTER ALL THE WAY UP! rindolf: GOOGLE BROKE YOUTUBE, EVERYONE REJOICE #perlcafe Freenode Sweat Round Numbers meow! hemanth: meow. hemanth: still no IRC at work? nope :/ hemanth: did you talk with the sys-admins? rindolf: it seems more like freenode have blocked the IP hang on "You are banned from this server- Temporary K-line 6000 min. - Please do not harass users on freenode. If in error, please contact mailto:kline@freenode.net. Thanks! (2011/11/1 06.24)" hemanth: ah. hemanth: what did you do? 6000 minutes. 100 hours. 4 days 4 hours. A weird number farnsworth: 6000 minutes -> days simcop2387: (25/6 /* apx (4.16666666666666) */) heh heh LeoNerd: i think it was entirely because 100 hours is a "round number" 0, 6, 8, 9 are round numbers The rest are a bit pointy maybe sometimes a 3 depending on font but it still has a pointy bit Altreus: heh. Altreus: actually, they are round digits. bah, you win 1 isn't round #perl-cats Freenode Round Numbers Negative Lookbehinds hi Hi GordonFreeman grep -Po '(?<=<a )(?<! href=)(?<= href=["]*)[^">]+' <<< '<a gfasg href=asdf>' grep: lookbehind assertion is not fixed length GordonFreeman: grep is PCRE - it's not Perl. perlbot: pcre GordonFreeman: don't use regex for HTML rindolf: PCRE is not Perl. It lacks several features of Perl regexes. Don't bother asking for help with a PCRE pattern in a Perl channel as the answers will not be relevant. Try #regex, or the channel for your language. See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCRE#Differences_from_Perl and LPBD. but this should work i think. no, it shouldn't though it fails at the second lookbehind ... no, it doesn't and fails at "* too (grep -Po '<a +.* +href="*[^" >]+' | grep -Po '(?=<a ).*' | grep -Po '(?<= href=)["]*[^" >]+') <<< '<a gfasg href=asdf><a fgfgg="hi> " href="link" >' this works. GordonFreeman: dude. don't paste! hi mauke where's mauke's car? apeiron: :-) it's a cdr I watched that the other day pkrumins: what's up? I don't really know why GordonFreeman: go to a channel where that is on-topic mauke<< like? no idea where on earth is parsing HTML with regexes on topic? ahem ok except ##php lolol well i think one can see its logical and it works like this GordonFreeman: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1732348/regex-match-open-tags-except-xhtml-self-contained-tags/1732454#1732454 rindolf's url is at http://xrl.us/bf4jh6 GordonFreeman, also, -P isn't perl. Altreus: some special level of hell, between the angry ghosts and the hungry ghosts perlbot: html the grep docs lie to you. rindolf: Don't parse or modify html with regular expressions! See one of HTML::Parser's subclasses: HTML::TokeParser, HTML::TokeParser::Simple, HTML::TreeBuilder(::Xpath)?, HTML::TableExtract etc. If your response begins "that's overkill. i only want to..." you are wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chomsky_hierarchy and http://xrl.us/bf4jh6 for why not to use regex on HTML Altreus: Why, surely in #html-parsing-by-regexp if you want perl regex use ack surely LeoNerd: sounds like programmers' hell. perl regex doesn't support variable-length lookbehind either apeiron: actually it says it's highly experimental and hence not working it could well be Perl and not PCRE when finished :) not that "perl regex" is a defined term, the speed Perl is moving That's why you should never use Perl's builtin regexes. Just write your own package, it's sure to be more reliable. yrlnry: :-) Heh. use re::engine::vim; yrlnry++ LeoNerd: is it core? HOP has a nice implementation. It works by generating a list of every string matched by the regex, and looking to see if your target string is in the list. I can't help thinking that may not be optimal in terms of CPU or memory usage yrlnry, no doubt they have a Cray working on generating the list .. LeoNerd: Depends; unlike Perl regexes, it has no trouble handling languages higher up the Chomsky hierarchy It is guaranteed to return the right answer for any recursive language, and guaranteed to return correct 'matched' answers for any recursively enumerable language. Oh sure... In terms of CS guarantees it's very nice So if you are in a big hurry to get the wrong answer... But I live in the practical pragmatic world E.g. Parser::MGC is horribly slow at backtracking and whatnot, but I write parsers in it because those are still fast for "reasonably" sized inputs, parsers are fast to write, and I like having lots of side-effects and dynamic logic -in- Perl Unfortunately my universe doesn't have infinite processing speeds and data storage a universe with infinite processing speed would have processed you by now and would have processed my grandchildren too This algorithm doesn' t need infinite speed or storage. It works slowly, but finitely. what The infinite list is lazily generated and you never have more than one of its elements in memory at any time. yrlnry: is it sorted by length? You will learn this sort of technique after you have been programming in Perl for eight months or so. how do you know when it doesn't match yrlnry: :D rindolf: it is sorted by length, and lexicographically among strings of the same length. yrlnry: ah. Of course, you cannot do the length-sorting thing for arbitrary languages, but for regex languages there is no trouble. http://hop.perl.plover.com/book/pdf/06InfiniteStreams.pdf Eh.. I dunno. I just dislike purely RE-based parsing I much prefer code doing it why can't perl regexp do variable length lookbehind matching? See originally I ignored you because it sounded like you were talking shit Limit of the implementation mainly because it is possible to construct a regex with an infinite range that nevertheless won't match a particular string GordonFreeman: who knows? looks like it's hard to implement with the given engine GordonFreeman: unclear semantics and no one's bothered to write the code i see Plus, there's a fucking lot of Unicode to create strings out of It's not "hard" to implement. It's impossible given the algorithm being used LeoNerd: why impossible? LeoNerd: I don't think that's true. It could be done using a recursive call to the regex engine now that that is possible. but lookbehind is cool Oooh.. yes.. I suppose it could do that now its like a reverse regexp that can be excluded vim re's do it vim uses a different type of engine right Altreus: I was talking shit. After eight months you get a license to do that. really? yrlnry: but there's a pdf where's a PDF? 17:10 < yrlnry> http://hop.perl.plover.com/book/pdf/06InfiniteStreams.pdf Yes. I didn't open it or anything no one opens PDFs PDFs are for cowards and Slavs. but it lent enough credence to your words that I decided to believe your spurious claims Actually someone did a test the other day Oh, does "talking shit" mean "making up nonsense"? Then I was not talking shit. He linked someone to articles supporting his viewpoint and they changed their mind It is in section 6.5, "regex string generation". but one of the articles was an argument against himself Showing that it is enough to cite your sources to be believed; not many people will actually bother to check them yrlnry: what do you normally think "talking shit" means? are you confusing it with shooting the shit I'm not sure. are you foreign Yes. ok then hahaha #perl Freenode Negative Lookbehind Regexes for matching HTML Foreign Birds though i installed IPC::RUN, i still get the Can't locate from perl it's called IPC::Run, not IPC::RUN mocramis: perl is case-sensitive. arf >< meow *chirp* tschilp in German, BTW. Could be handy when talking with foreign birds :) DrForr: absolutely. also: a German dog barks "wau" and a cat meows "miau" Su-Shee: German animals are true German patriots. No relation to Miaowara Tomokato, I take it. DrForr: no, although Germany and Japan of course had some relations ;) Su-Shee: oh. that explains 'dr waumiau' foreign birds speak the same as local birds Botje: what's that? ;) Su-Shee: German mash-up artist Botje: now you know what his names means. Altreus: Mine didn't :) speaking a foreign language is culturally insensitive (she grew up speaking English and Japanese - Her new host family is coping well, all things considered) DrForr: now I'm confused.. she -> bird, dog, ex-girlfriend, daughter? Bird with a multilingual daddy. see I was disallowing DrForr the use of 'bird' as 'girl' for comic effect #perl Freenode What do foreign birds speak? Brogramming anybody with suggestion how can I clean up the code in the way as this tool is doing it temporarily in browser? http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/7188/clean-up-webpages-for-note-taking-or-printing-the-easy-way/ jozefk: you can define a print stylesheet. I want to clean the page from everything. not only to see it like that on screen but to really modify the code jozefk: well, you can read what the bookmarklet is doing and emulate it. I see the JavaScript code from bookmarklet but I think I can't modify real files on hard disk with JavaScript codes and the code is more than 300 lines :) sure you can, JS runs server-side happily enough, but it'd be just as easy to convert the JS logic to perl. that sounds like programming. I thought there is some tool like that bookmarklet which I can use to modify files on HDD tm604: except the JS runs on a DOM in a browser, with a browser context yes, it does sound a bit like programming, doesn't it? good thing this is a programming channel, so it's hopefully still on-topic. I don't think there's a node module that will load an HTML file and create a browser context in which to then run JS on that HTML's DOM and output the result :) DOM is not so important here I think. because JS is removing everything from code and just applying another CSS so the page looks different huh, thought there was. the script itself should be trivial to convert to perl either way. probably a better idea :) yeah, better. one day when I become a programmer :) I will do it. I want to become a brogrammer why? taking pictures of bros So I can do some awesome brogramming, jozefk! :)) pkrumins: yo bro! I hurd you like brogramming so we put your bro in your brogram so you can brogram while you bro! rofl nate_h: :-) should it be brozefk ? rinbrolf pk-bro-mins rindolf: i put a browser in your browser rindolf: so you can browse while yo browse pkrumins: bro, a browser is so 90s. broser? bowser mushroom? pkrumins: KDE-4.8.x-beta-something is coming to Mageia Linux 2/Cauldron. \o/ I search on duckduckbro! co-co-coommmboo breaker pkrumins: I'll see how much it fixes and how much it breaks. pkrumins: and fix what it breaks and break what it fixes. To preserve the balance in the force. #perl Freenode I want to become a brogrammer. Count von Counter rindolf: is not { my $c=0; sub getNext { $c++ } } a perfectly good way to do a closure on a variable (that should not be seen by anything other than that sub, sort of like that PHP example with the "static" var <http://www.phpsadness.com/sad/18> and I think similar to static vars in C++ and Java) ? ncow: yes, it is. ncow: you can use state vars in recent perls too but I keep thinking there was a way of doing it with outer and inner subs too, or no ncow: thing is in sub outer { my $c = 0 ; .... } the $c is temporary. uri: yeah I just saw that in perlfaq7 just before you said that, thanks though :) ncow: which causes weird side-effects with a package-scope inner sub. rindolf: but shouldn't the inner sub have a closure over $c though? ncow: it will. ncow: but every time you call outer() you get a different $c. Windows also accepts a sledgehammer to the hard drive. rindolf: I'm talking about calling the inner one rindolf: could be interesting to call the outer one to re-prime or something (just kind of thinking aloud, I could be completely wrong) (please let me know if I am) Botje: that's not the point. Some systems don't :) apeiron: Windows requiring doing a SOAP request to a .NET service (that is very picky about its scope) to call an OLE component for writing an Excel macro to do that. And for those we have File::Spec. apeiron: it's not as straightforward as in UNIX. I think I found a mis-type in perlfaq7 <http://perldoc.perl.org/perlfaq7.html#How-do-I-create-a-static-variable%3f>, under "How do I create a static variable?" It says: sub counter { state $count = 1; $counter++ } I think that should be $count++ not $counter++ apeiron: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=joel-forum-unix-shooting-in-the-foot ncow: yes, it should. ncow: or "$state $counter = 1;". rindolf: oh shit, that is so true. I hate ActiveX like the mf-ing plague rindolf: yes, though counter is the sub's name, I think the var was meant to be called $count as in the count that the counter counts :) ncow++ ncow: it still exists in my github fork of the perl-doc-cats repo. a counter doesn't counter counters unless it is in fact a counter counter :) ncow: go back to sesame street! lol it seems to be where you learned your perl! use Big::Bird; but does a counter counter count it self as a counter counter? that is counterproductive thinking (or does it just consider itself a cunt and thus only count it self as a cunt counter since it only counts cunts?) ok I think I'm done with that one... sorry, whenever someone mentions ActiveX it makes me all twitchy, and if there is no one around to choke into submission, I tend to write odd things, like a ram memory discharge a CounterCounterFactoryCounter ActiveX will do that ncow: heh. ncow++ ooooh now we're talking ncow: anyway, how do you want to be credited in the commit log? rindolf: call him the miscount uri: heh. you don't have to do that, but if you really want to, ncow is fine. Necrocow may be me old moniker (and freenode account name) but ncow is what I've been going by for quite a while now uri: Count von Counter so I'm the count of miscountistu? ncow: pushed. cool glad I could help. ncow: you're welcome. “One Perl One-Liner, Two Perl One-Liners, Three Perl One-Liners. <Thunder and Lightning> Ha ha ha ha ha ha.” -- Count von Counter rindolf: haha rindolf: god I still remember that from when I was a kid watching PBS ncow: I remember it from the Israeli Sesame Street. Israeli? didn't know they had their own version ncow: they call him there "Mar Soffer." - "Mr. Counting" ncow: we actually had two at two different times. #perl Freenode How many counts will a counter count if a counter could count counts? Using your Experience Points holy fucking shnikes mst was right federated_life: you'll find that happens a lot. federated_life: every time I level, I put all my XP (= experience points) into "being right" rather than boring things like "tact" ;) mst: Not ranged weapons? haha Gain enough XP and you actually -can- stab people over the Internet sweet I wouldn't recommend stabbing PHP people though, I hear they bleed acid bring a blotter gotta take 'em out from a distance ah LeoNerd: do nukes count as ranged weapons? :) I don't see why not If it's ballistically launched well it's a bit more ... hmm how should I put it I'd stand well clear of anyone classing a nuke as a mêlée weapon. LeoNerd: "no, gunner, your target is <here>" / "oh, of course it is" *BLAM* LeoNerd: aka, being right allows you to -control- ranged weapons :) #perl Freenode Using Your Experience Points Hurting People PKRUMINS pKrumins BYY pkrumins: BUU pkrumins: buu is back. rindolf: i know pkrumins: he said he was close to disappearing. WHAT buu, is that true pkrumins: he was sick. HE WASNT =[ I was HOW Genetic defects! OH NO OH NO NO NO substance abuuse Owch That joke almost qualifies as abuse now that I've hurt mst and buu, my work for today is done you still haven’t hurt me mauke: hold on! You haven't hurt me yet. haha is hurt that mauke didn't hurt him. Oh wait. just as keikaku. mauke: OK, now your work for today is done. NO #perl Freenode Are you being hurt? The Shouting Su-Shee pkrumins: have you seen http://weblibs.herokuapp.com/ ? i haven't looking at it now haha hipster wannabe-programmer nonsense pkrumins: yes. pkrumins: Su-Shee had told us about it. pkrumins: a while ago. where did she disappear, BTW oh there she is! i thought she left nah, she's just been quiet recently right. NO IM NOT. ;) confiscates Su-Shee's megaphone and hugs her I can yell naturally! then you won't need this megaphone back, will you? :D .oO(1000000 phones) *haha* :) #perl Freenode Alive and yelling A Natural Stupidity Carbon-based Bot I made a new bot running on a carbon-based AI system carbon-based? So it's written in C for a Mac? no it's me Altreus: you're a natural stupidity system - not an artificial intelligence one. Altreus: or maybe natural intelligence. well you're a poo poo head :) perlbot, altreus is also six years old apeiron: Stored altreus is a small cat (see: http://avatars.plurk.com/3405142-big.jpg) | six years old That's generous Altreus: calling someone a "poo poo head" proves that this person has natural stupidity. rindolf: But the natural stupidity was postulated before the use of the phrase; hence you can't discount the fact that using the phrase was in response to, rather than proof of, the assertion. Altreus: yes, but it still proved it after the fact. Altreus: Q.E.D. rindolf: Except it is possible for an intelligent system to act stupid hence it is not, in fact, proof. Altreus: that's right - it has the right to in fact. Indeed. So given that it has the ability, the right, and the motivation to do so, it is reasonable to assume that in fact that is what happened Altreus: OK. You would have to gather further data on the system to determine it. Altreus: in that case, calling someone a "poo poo head" has the property of having natural stupidity. Or acting under the influence of natural stupidity. Possibly artificial natural stupidity. rindolf: artificial natural stupidity ._. I think your sentence is at odds with itself Well, your fragment Altreus: it's an oxymoron. correct Oxymorons are indicative of natural stupidity. I gave the artificial impression of natural stupidity! Stupid phrases are an indication of a) stupidity or b) intelligence Hence stupid phrases are not indicative. Quite so Only intelligent phrases can be indicative of something. Stupidity is an absence, and you cannot prove an absence without first proving an exhaustive set. Wise men know they are stupid. :) Whereas foolish people think they are not. The earliest Greek philosophers tried to philosophise in verse. Which didn't work too well. Maybe they should have chosen a different meter #perl Freenode Detecting natural stupidity Negative Numbers what is the most efficient way to do: floor($foo/600)*600 um floor $foo :P Premature micro-optimization detected at line 0. I think that /is/ the most efficient way to do it what about int $foo? or is floor more efficient? I think this is rounding to the nearest 600 er, the lowest 600 int truncates towards 0 doesn't floor do that as well? You're looking at micro-optimization in *math*. Surely there are bigger fish to fry? ChibaPet: consider negatives Oh! Negatives. Slipped right by me. Thanks. the difference in most operations is evident in negatives, except the various rounding techniques Negative numbers, brr, they're just not natural. :) fizzie: :-) fizzie: but they are real. fizzie: and they aren't imaginary or complex. they're not /that/ real fizzie: though they can be irrational. Heh. -5 ∈ ℝ I think tziOm wanted to round down to 10 minutes. Maybe s/.:..$/0:00/ is an option? :D smacks antox with a bin smacks antox with a larger bin. this one http://www.suasnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/dusty1.gif hands antox a fish. Altreus's url is at http://xrl.us/bmpbt6 My bin is bigger than Altreus'. Rainbow trout all 'round! was that a pun Anyway guys, I haven't got if I should be proud of getting smacked by a bin. no it's pain-based learning antox: you were smacked by two bins - one smaller, one larger. You made a mistake???!one!!! Clean out your desk at once!!!!!!eleven!!!!! And no supper today! #perl Freenode Don't be so negative. Laziness "thrig" at 72.14.189.113 pasted "countcounterdecountersville for morissette" (22 lines) at http://scsys.co.uk:8002/176933 thrig: why are you using qx... in void-context? You should use system. because it's a quick example and I'm lazy thrig: laziness! thrig: laziness will be the fall of mankind but I cannot be arsed to do anything about it. I tried, but last week's meeting of the apathy society was cancelled due to lack of interest ~~ Mr. Wiggles-san! apathy society? couldn't care less myself. the Something or the Other re. Pirates Act "What do you think are the major causes of ignorance and apathy in today's voting public?" "Hrm.. don't know. Don't care, really.." :D back in the day, one would get smited for lazing the day away watching Aramaic Idol thrig: when I was younger, I watched Sumerian Idol. it's in estivation now, I hear rindolf: Gilgamesh was such a bastard on that show. #perl Freenode I don't care about my apathy Complex Math eval: 1+1 Teratogen: 2 it works! eval: e**(pi*i) Teratogen: 1 oh dear =( eval: 1/0 vreg: ERROR: Illegal division by zero at (eval 1702) line 1. eval: sqrt(-1) Teratogen: ERROR: Can't take sqrt of -1 at (eval 1702) line 1. what the http://search.cpan.org/perldoc?Math::Complex eval: use Math::Complex; sqrt(-1) vreg: ERROR: Can't locate Math/Complex.pm in @INC (@INC contains:) at (eval 1702) line 1. BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at (eval 1702) line 1. Math::Complex? Why not Math::Simple? LeoNerd: heh. Simple Numbers. Math::Tiny Math::Tiny::ButMaintained Hehe.. Math::Tiny. Only copes with the range [0,1) LeoNerd: sounds more like fuzzy logic. LeoNerd: this [0,1) thing reminds me of this joke of mine - http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=jewish-deduction Hehe Math::Jewish. #perl Freenode Making Complex Math Simple Jumping Off a Bridge m4rcu5: you need a newer perl to use the /r modifier to tr/// also, why are you reading 5.14's perlop? "because that's what I found online" mauke: too old? i thought that the default install of Gentoo came shipped with a bit more up to date version of perl :P snrk mauke: because that's what perldoc.perl.org served me ;-) and why are you going to perldoc.perl.org? if perldoc told you to jump off of a bridge, would you? alnewkirk: if Chuck Norris told me to do that, I would. rindolf: Chuck Norris wouldn't tell you … he'd just round-house kick you off of the bridge. PerlJam: heh. PerlJam: what if he's nowhere near the bridge? rindolf: Chuck Norris is everywhere yet nowhere in particular … like the wind #perl Freenode I’ll jump off the bridge when I get there. Deprecation SO I TURNED TO YOU FOR HELP IN TIMES OF DESPERATION… desperation is for wimps prosperation? deprecation is an outdated concept and we prefer not to do it let’s deprecate deprecation. agreed. oh wait. that would be a deprecation Who will watch the watcher? Who will deprecate deprecation? shouldn’t someone deprecate the deprecator in that case? deprecates the deprecator who is deprecating deprecation. that's OK, it's not deprecated yet #perl Freenode To deprecate deprecation, we first need to stop deprecating. Ampersand’s Many Friends is there ever a good reason to omit ampersands from subroutine invocations? <- noob wrong question always is there ever a good reason to add ampersands to subroutine calls? almost never it seems like a nice touch to include the sigil so there's no ambiguity el_seano: http://perl-begin.org/tutorials/bad-elements/#ampersand-in-subroutine-calls Ampersands are among the coolest punctuation marks & add their coolness to everything they are used for. el_seano: what ambiguity? foo() # pretty unambiguous &Yaakov& prefers ampersors. Or ampernots. AmperSnot amberbuts amber? amperbuts! :D ampersif ampersand followed by amperbuff and amperpolish... amperbeadblast #perl Freenode If you like ampersands, you’ll also love… Chuck Norris and Perl thanks perl people! Sorry I am a newbie! Don't apologize for being a newbie RiXtEr-Work: We all were at one time. Well, except maybe Larry. Apologize for being stupid and then fix it drforr, I wrote a bunch of perl back in about 2003-2005 era, but if you don't use it you lose it I guess.. DrForr: Chuck Norris was never a newbie! Chuck Norris will kill anyone who implies otherwise. rindolf, Chuck Norris is the perl interpreter... RiXtEr-Work: heh. Only perl and Chuck Norris can parse Perl. haha Naw, all Chuck Norris has to do is *look* at perl and it interprets itself out of fear and respect. Chuck Norris doesn't need to program, his computer does what he says when he says it. Chuck Norris taught God how to create the universe. Insert Higgs joke here. #perl Freenode I was a newbie once. Chuck Norris wasn’t. talexb about having a flat tire

talexb: “Hey, I have a flat tire. Can you help me change it with a can opener and a pound of sesame seeds?”

(In context of parsing XML or HTML with regular expressions.)

talexb Freenode’s #perl Which version of Perl are we at, today? crane_work: 5.6 is ancient. crane_work: use perlbrew do you mean 5.6? crane_work: even 5.10 is end of line. then you need to install 5.6 also, uninstall 5.6 and 5.10 and install 5.16 crane_work: Then install v5.6 with perlbrew. And pad your keyboard for the inevitable <headdesk/>s. And holy god why do you *need* something last bug-fixed in the last *century*. or, you know, use a version of perl developed *after* 9/11. mauke: would you be able to share the code with me? lol ^^ lesshaste: http://paste.scsys.co.uk/204936 thanks! if necessary, tell your boss perl 5.16 has been terrorism-proofed. crane_work: Ha ha only *serious*. 5.6 is almost unrecognizable under the cobwebs. i guess this would be a pro argument... crane_work: as we've said a few times: perlbrew mauke: I get that's fast! I bet lesshaste: I doubt it we need someone to work on pyperl :) it seeks all over the place mauke: why? ah ok c code with perl reindenting is ... strange but that's why I wanted to test it on a nontrivial data set :-) Why would compiling to a different VM do any good?... Oh, because it's python, therefore better. Silly me. it'd force people to understand (and fix) the darkest corners of the perl grammar? *shrug* dunno grammar and semantics that too. the vote on how to interpolate $length[1234] into regexes doesn't make me feel good... DrForr: it's not really python DrForr: In fact, it's not python :) DrForr: they just did the same thing for PHP DrForr: and was some project for Prolog etc in the past maybe this question would be stupid but... why if use v5.06 is stupid is it possible to tell perl to use a version? crane_work: what? use v5.6 isn't stupid, it just does something other than what you wanted. DrForr: the idea is simply that it would be *faster* huf: in which cases will i need it=? lesshaste: isn't pyperl this - http://wiki.python.org/moin/PyPerl ? when your code doesn't run on 5.005 and earlier crane_work: use VERSION means your script requires at least that version of perl. if an older one tries to load it, it'll tell you to fuck off and get a newer perl. it will not turn your new perl into an old one however. rindolf: that has the same name :) I mean using pypy to make a JIT for perl as in http://pypy.org/ lesshaste: OK, there's perlito. crane_work: if you want to check for things crane_work: Perl::MinimumVersion exists IIRC perlbot: perlito rindolf: No factoid found. Did you mean one of these: [#perl topic] [perl topic] [perl tutorials] [perl5004delta] [perl5005delta] [perl561delta] [perl56delta] [perl570delta] [perl6 Test.pm] [perldata] rindolf: is that a static compiler or a JIT? crane_work: Then start with 5.16 and don't worry about earlier versions. perlbot: perlito is http://perlito.org/ - a Perl 5 / Perl 6 compiler written in Perl 5 / Perl 6. rindolf: Stored perlito is http://perlito.org/ - a Perl 5 / Perl 6 compiler written in Perl 5 / Perl 6. people should just call it perl 16 but it isn't. I have a tendency to say /usr/bin/perl version 16 since -V says 'perl revision 5 version 16'; so it *is* "version 16" they called java 1.4 "java 4" it's just marketing man! Perl 16 would be too confusing with Perl 6 perl6 is a separate language GlitchMr: we'll soon have Perl 18, so it's all good Perl 5.006 is definitely not Perl 6 this is perl5 version 16 They called java 1.4, "java 1.4". java moved names at java 5. but point stands. did it help? i know it generated years of confusion :D is that good? GlitchMr: but I call it perl6, not perl 6 GlitchMr: yeah, "Perl 6" is an error, since the 6 is part of the name I call Java "Anne-Mary Lousia" and Python "Charles Phillip Arthur George" (bonus points for recognizing this one ;) GlitchMr: people misparse it as "perl version 6" how much of an improvement is perl 16 over perl 14 and 12? Su-Shee: do you also put them like that on your CV? :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systemd is at version 187 - eat your heart out, Emacs! wondering if I should go through the hassle of upgrading rmah: five percent. Su-Shee: Vaguely. Su-Shee: python's ears aren't nearly big enough for that rmah: read the perldoc perldeltas Botje: hmm, ok rmah: s//r in 14 is my favourite thing ever pink_mist: that would take actual work! <gasp!> rmah: also 'package Name VERSION {' mst: *bow* nice. :) s///r is just nice syntactic sugar mst: thanks for the info GlitchMr: given a Turing machine, all new syntax is sugar I like sugar Hmmm... yeah We all could write without pointers in C could we? Brainfuck to C compiler doesn't use pointers ... or perhaps it does... Would int array[3000]; count as pointer? without the ability to point, what would you do before you laugh? mst: you should tweet that profundity might not be banal enough for twitter mind you #perl Freenode A critique of pure revision. Not a solution Altreus: I saw your Magento moral quandary on g+ EdwardIII: Magento! runs away screaming. EdwardIII: do you mean the eCommerce solution? rindolf: i do heh rindolf: “solution” is a bit generous I would say “problem” #perl-cats Freenode Not a solution Perl’s Moose and its Roles perlbot: revert 5449 rindolf: Reverted soap to revision 5449 perlbot: good perlbot rindolf: <purrrrrrr /> <woof /> <tail-wag /> wonders how many people list ``perlbot'' as a language on their CVs. perlbot: help mkalias rindolf: Sorry, no plugin named mkalias found. wait, it purrs AND woofs? pdl: mixed message. pdl: the purring is as a cat. rindolf: Maybe it's neither dog nor cat but Moose and just implements purring, woofing and tailwagging via roles? pdl: heh. I didn't know Meese were actors. How many roles does a Moose play? 502 results for "Moose Role" on CPAN. genio: nice. http://deps.cpantesters.org/depended-on-by.pl?module=Moose%3A%3ARole fizztpok: wow! That Moose must be the world's most prolific actor. Which is especially impressive given the fact that he's not human. #perl Freenode How many roles must a one Moose play… For lack of a slash helo hello nydel howdy mucker_ & how're you ehlo nydel nydel: borderline hihi DrForr nydel: The Doctor is drunk !! In a short while he will start singing :) DrForr: why wait? mucker_ will you get on backup vocals Don't make me get out my ga^wuke. let's sing about Perl, are there any good Perl songs Ask PerlJam. Rolling Stones had something about Tuesday that was Ruby Tuesday though :( Well, I *did* have a pint at lunch, but I'd hardly call that 'drunk'. DrForr: pint of vodka? Hoegaarden actually. nydel: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/Im-The-Real-Tim-Toady/ nydel: also http://perlbuzz.com/2007/12/it-was-twenty-years-ago-today.html o/' Will the real Rip Taylor please crack up, please crack up, please crack up o/' nydel: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=perl-losing-my-abstraction rindolf: what lovely little ditties! Hey, who you callin'....oh :) is there an offtopic perl channel? Is there an *ontopic* perl channel? nydel: #perlcafe and #perl-cats fed you that straight line didn't i join #perlcafe pardon my lack of slash. For lack of a slash, the command failed. For lack of a command, the client failed. For lack of a client, the server failed. For lack of a server, the network failed. All because of a little slash. For lack of a network, the corporation failed. For lack of a corporation, the community failed. Having failed, the community peddled hash tables to kids "The first key's free!" see? I've been saying this is a language based on drug culture. "UNIX and LSD were both invented at Berkeley. I do not believe this to be a coincidence." BSD and LSD. Unix was invented at some east coast lab. Thanks for the correction, I knew it didn't quite sound right. also, was LSD really *invented* at Berkeley? I find that hard to believe ... that it's *available* there I don't doubt though.. well guido is from netherlands. ... seems it was actually discovered in Basel, Germany by Albert Hofmann in 1938 :P Basel, Germany -- Berkeley ... starting letter and ending letters are the same :P #perl Freenode Fun on #perl Perl and other Animals CPAN Upload: Moos-0.12 by INGY http://metacpan.org/release/INGY/Moos-0.12 Moos? ingy: is Moos halfway between Moo and Moose? rindolf: no. it's sort of Mo++ but he'd run out of letters. mst: oh. "Moos completes the M to Moose sequence of Perl OO modules." M Mo Moo Moos Moose <- sounds like a pokemon or like a lady gaga song next up: oM ooM sooM esooM So, let's go for l, loo, loose next and there's also g, goo and goose.. n, no, ... noose "l the light perl object system", "g the generic perl object system" ... Su-Shee: LOL. Su-Shee++ Khisanth: reminds me of "Na Nah Nahm Nahman Me'ooman" manamana also: "dammit, I have a mouse in my apartment" :/ A mouse in your Perl. CPAN - we put animals in your Perl code. registers Animal.pm. I mean a real one which just ran along the wall :( rindolf: Moos is yet another single file OO module, that tries to loosely mimic Moose module structure ingy: ah. ingy: OK. Su-Shee: time to get a cat ;) Su-Shee: all I have is ants and cockroaches. cockroaches.. even worse :( https://metacpan.org/search?q=ant contemplates a Moose-a-like module called "Mooserly" so that we can extend the ... "ecosystem" ;> Moosic? Moosaic :P #perl Freenode A-Moose-ing The Final Perl Countdown CPAN Upload: App-Countdown-v0.0.3 by SHLOMIF http://metacpan.org/release/SHLOMIF/App-Countdown-v0.0.3 nuzzles GumbyPAN when is 0.0.2 coming out? thrig: 0.0.2 of what? rindolf: THE COUNTDOWN! the final one? thrig: it was released earlier today. ;-) what sort of countdown goes up? thrig: the Merlin countdown. one in soviet russia? perlbot, in soviet russia apeiron: joke is tired of you heh thrig: the kind parsed by Opera CPAN Upload: App-Countdown-v0.0.4 by SHLOMIF http://metacpan.org/release/SHLOMIF/App-Countdown-v0.0.4 ! thrig: s/App-Countdown/App-Countup/ #perl Freenode Count von Countdown Back to Lingual Basics rindolf: How different is modern Hebrew from classical Hebrew in terms of grammar? arkydo: Classical Hebrew? What's that? presumably with tuxes and violins instead of guitars arkydo: there was Biblical Hebrew, Mishna'ic Hebrew, Medieval Hebrew, post-Medieval Hebrew, and Modern Hebrew. how confusing rindolf: biblical Hebrew I mean. Post-Modern Hebrew :P arkydo: I think Modern Hebrew is using the grammar of the Mishna'ic Hebrew with the vocabulary of the Biblical Hebrew. Atonal Hebrew, Serial Hebrew, Minimal Hebrew arkydo: you can understand a large part of the Bible, but the grammar sounds different. arkydo: though you get used to it. what about homebrew Hebrew? Vicissitude: perlbrew Hebrew! :) perlall Hebrew. local-lib Hebrew. we should all just stick to ASCII and learn English would make things so much easier alpha-: and less interesting, too. alpha-: and less enlightening. But that was a joke. ASCII isn't enough for English “128 characters should be enough for everybody.” ;-) don’t be naïve I'm sure we can all coöperate on some solution mauke: give me ASCII or give me deaþ! rindolf: ☠ mauke: thanks. takes the Unicode death thingy from mauke. there's also ⺞ huh. https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=%E2%98%A0 really google? nothing? I think we should all go back to grunting in two tones i think Google broke for some people at least Then we only need one bit for every sound we make only gives me shit https://www.google.com/search?q=foobar - seems to work. i meant the quality of results returned is subpar petn-randall: wheee... whaaa? uh-huh rindolf: Exactly. Then we could get of this 'ASCII' everyone's talking about, too petn-randall: whooo! Ooops. rindolf: You overdid it, how am I gonna get those three cries into one bit?! petn-randall: use UTF-cries. I could use compression, I guess ... Or UTF-1 snickers #perl Freenode One World, One Love, UTF-One NoSQL /dev/null I just had a brilliant idea: a distributed, NoSQL, WebScale, /dev/null replacement. I think I should patent it. rindolf: awesome! as long as we have a webscale bit bucket we should be fine. cfedde: would you like to invest in that? software patents suck rindolf: sure. Send me your bank account number and I'll make a deposit! rindolf that's like a 50 trillion dollar invention where do I invest cfedde: OK, I'll send it through that /dev/null thing. rindolf: perfect. would be fun if it escaped the lab and started /dev/null'ing the interwebs like a black hole I'd call that a public service. - in a new way <stan\0> would be fun if it escaped the lab and started /dev/null'ing the interwebs like a black hole ==> don't worry, I'm also going to patent how to properly secure it against abuse, so it will only null what you send to it. Not anything external and unsolicited. stan\0: but doing that will require paying me extra. stan\0: because I figure out not every one will need this feature. #perl Freenode The future scalability of /dev/null Identically named variables do % define the @ ? huf, do hashes define the array WeThePeople: %foo and @foo are completely different. WeThePeople: note that @foo{@slice_by_me} is part of %foo % - hash yet @ array WeThePeople: I'm now working on refactoring the perl debugger, which uses many identical names for $, @, and % variables - how irritating. And in part these are package-scope variables so they are part of the interface and I cannot change them. rindolf, so you are refactoring to use $@% only ?? WeThePeople: no. WeThePeople: I mean I have something like $sub , @sub and %sub - all at once. WeThePeople: and I dislike it. Well, there was also a "sub sub { ... }" (oh the humanity). add &sub and sub sub {...} heh I'm too slow. cfedde: we still love you. :-) oh the possibilities, $sub[$sub], @sub{@sub}, .... WITH GREAT HUGE LOVE. sub sub { &sub } hugs cfedde rindolf: me too. &$$sub huf: heh. sub-par. here we find ourselves well on the way to another Acme:: module cfedde: heh. cfedde: this time it's part of the perl core. No just mix in all the case permutations and we've got a winner. cfedde: there's a limit to how much I can refactor the debugger without breaking the "external" API. sub sandwich; cfedde: when I started with it, it was truly vile code. use sub_localize qw/grinder hoagie poboy hero/; #perl Freenode sub sub{}-standard Love for Sale I LOVE YOU ALL WITH A GREAT HUGE LOVE Yaakov: HOW MUCH DOES YOUR GREAT HUGE LOVE COST? It's on offer half price today. Yaakov: I WILL OFFER YOU 200,000 VIRTUAL DOLLARS FOR YOUR GREAT HUGE LOVE. The regular price is free of charge. Yaakov: oh nice. buys Yaakov's GREAT HUGE LOVE. Which is to say bitcoins :) I LOVE YOU ALL WITH YAAKOV'S GREAT HUGE LOVE. #perl Freenode All you need is YAAKOV'S GREAT HUGE LOVE RESOLVED / WONT_FIX LeoNerd, I've decided to send the module author a request for comment on this, saying i cannot write my tests because i cannot override the port his client software uses perhaps he'll allow the user to override the port used nod Sounds good considering the author though... I'm wary of the reply :P mutters ifyouknowwhatimean sawyer_: RESOLVED / WONT_FIX / FUCK_YOU ... story of my life. hahahahaha RESOLVED / NOT_GONNA_DONT_WANNA i once closed a ticket at $work accompanied with a yell over my office that said "and if you open that fucker again, I'm breaking a chair over your fucking face" but... that's just me :) sawyer_: well, I once declined a patch on rt.cpan.org for HTML-Widgets-NavMenu, because it: 1. Broke some existing tests. 2. Was doable with some extra work. sawyer_: hah. rindolf, what pissed me off was that he kept reopening a ticket for something that wasn't configured correctly. the problem was, i still haven't received the request to configure it in the first place. I hate those tickets that get closed before it was released as a stable release. it's taking TDD way too far :) sawyer_: ah. it was like "there's a bug." - "what's the bug?" - "that site is not up" - "it's not supposed to be up" - "yes, it is" - "no, it isn't. when they ask to bring it up, I'll bring it up" - "but it's not up" - "IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO FUCKING BE UP SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY" #perl Freenode Dot Star i have a regex that finds stuff in parentheses... "\(.*\)" ...how make it NOT be "greedy"? i.e. if it sees "(aaa)bbb)" I want it to grab (aaa) instead of the entire string (aaa)bbb) /\ba\b|(\b.*a[^b]+\b)/ <-- this works for my problem, at least at that tests that i run for it. Regexp' theme is really an effort as it seems to me... theseb: you know there is a module to matched paired things like parentheses.. Text::Balanced? theseb: extract_bracketed Text::Balanced, yes. Doing ab-type balanced strings in REs is a pain. Su-Shee: thanks...i actually have the same problem with brackets [] theseb: extract_bracketed ;) Or Parser::MGC :) theseb: also, .* is the most unspecific regex you can use, it's like saying oh well match something of anything or nothing and please, a lot of it ;) #perl Freenode .* described Perl’s Enterprise Release once you get into POE and Moose heavily…why stay with perl instead of going to Java ? I've spent much of this last month writing Perl at home and Java at work.. I really really dislike Java federated_life: what for? since being a real programmer is editing the binary files directly instead of recompiling…but java has a lot of nice stuff It is far too new FutureFunction<Param,Result>() { public Future<Result> apply(Param p) { noisy } } for my liking federated_life: WTF? I always get annoyed that the smallest of things takes just far too much code in Java, to the point that after a glance, I can't see where the real detail is federated_life: and what nice stuff does Java has? federated_life, you know where Java is if you want it. we're not stopping you. I'm no java expert, nor a perl expert …. but I don't have to load half of cpan to get moose equivalent in java it's hardly half of CPAN it's not even a third or a quarter :) no, not :) more like "STFU and stop spreading ignorance-based FUD" perl is awesome, no doubts about it, but I'm curious what other languages you guys hack stuff up in federated_life: then just use Java and leave us using something else if you like it better.. also: plenty of perl code doesn't even need Moose or POE C federated_life: I also use C, Ruby and Python. Perl, Scheme, C, Java,... federated_life: and I play with other languages too. federated_life: and C++. federated_life: surveys are one channel over federated_life: C, Ruby, JavaScript, Shell, R and sadly Java for Android stuff tybalt89, #perl++? Objective Perl++.NET LeoNerd: heh. LeoNerd: Enterprise Edition. Wait, Objective jPerl++.NET surely.. Objective jPerl.NET++ Enterprise Beans Objective jIronPerl++.NET Enterprise Edition. jperl !! awesome, now something to make java devs lose their minds I wonder if anyone has a web framework called Toast Could make Beans on Toast federated_life: there's Inline::Java, BTW. Objective jIronPerl++.NET Enterprise Edition♭ lroe: Isn't the "Iron" something about .NET anyway though? I added the ♭ not the iron LeoNerd: you hid your python. *ahem* federated_life: http://paste.debian.net/218118/ - Larry Wall about Java. lroe: isn't the ♭ "flat"? perlbot: utf8 ♭ rindolf: U+266D (e2 99 ad): MUSIC FLAT SIGN [♭] :-) rindolf: circa 1997 yes it is the flat sign as opposed to the sharp sign http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=shlomif-functional-specs--ms-editing-macros So now we have: Objective jIronPerl++.NET Enterprise Edition♭ Professional Home Premium™. LOL. Objective jIronPerl++.NET Enterprise Edition♭ Professional Home Premium 64-bit Single-user #perl Freenode Enterprise Perl for the Enterprise Win On writing blog engines petn-randall: pkrumins claims that for true nirvana, every hacker should write their own blog engine. rindolf: Writing your own nirvana may be easier than writing a good blog engine ;) #perl Freenode There’s always something easier… Love the time, like it was your brother I LOVE YOU ALL WITH A GREAT HUGE LOVE Yaakov: DO YOU ALSO LOVE THE NEW YEAR WITH GREAT HUGE LOVE? rindolf: I really only love people with that sort of love. Yaakov: ah. Yaakov: What about simulated people? demands equal rights for years, minutes, hours and days to also get YAAKOV'S GREAT HUGE LOVE. buu: You aren't a simulation. Heh. Yaakov: we still love you ;) Oh well, let's put some GREAT HUGE LOVE into the code. WE LOVE YOU WITH A GREAT HUGE LOVE YAAKOV please no equal rights for the minutes. we don't want GREAT HUGE LOVE every 60 seconds. <3 Drupal does not give me GREAT HUGE LOVE. whosgonna, yes we do It does not give me any love at the moment. rindolf: does it give you fits of agony? apeiron: i stand corrected. whosgonna: kinda. I just don't love time like I love people. I can't say I *love* time at all. I appreciate the necessity of time to my love of people, and so I suppose you could make a reasonable cause that I have a second-order love of time. #perl Freenode All you need is YAAKOV'S GREAT HUGE LOVE Botjinxing the Interwebs ok this is the 10th time numpy times out while downloading its stupid module - why does that NEVER happen to me with CPAN? not in a DECADE? snakes on the network cables. great thanks, now you jinxed it and it timed out again. happy to oblige. Tuesdays make computers mopy. someone beat Botje, please. I'll take all of you on at quake 3! Su-Shee: what are your computer's SPECs? MAXIMUM ARMOUR rindolf: what? rindolf: what kind of question is that? Su-Shee: like P4-2.4GHZ, Core i3, Pentium 3, etc. rindolf: are you kidding me? what does that have to do with timeouts while downloading a file? Su-Shee: no idea. Su-Shee: it shouldn't. rindolf: then why are you asking such a question? Su-Shee: maybe use a proxy. Su-Shee: I mean a proxy on localhost or something. rindolf: and what is a proxy on localhost going to proxy before I even have the file it should proxy later on? :) Botje: DON'T MOVE. IT'S /(% 78% Su-Shee: I mean let python use the proxy and the proxy will download it in a better way. Su-Shee: IT'S OKAY, THE FILE WILL BE CORRUPT ANYWAY. Su-Shee: and cache it too. Botje: heh. Botje: you're Evil. Botje: will you join my Evil Reindeer Evil Conspiracy? I managed to blow up the same CD burn process three times by touching my friend's screen. burn burn burn *touch screen* buffer underrun. Oooh... CDs - such low tech. CDs are so 90s. rindolf: says the man who suggests installing a proxy for a single file.. IN OUR TIME WE EXCHANGED DATA BY PUTTING PITS IN CIRCULAR PLASTIC DISKS AND WE WERE HAPPY ABOUT IT! rindolf: and asks how fast my computer is in 2013... Botje: YOU LOST I HAVE MY FUCKING NUMPY Su-Shee: NASA still has some VAXes. Su-Shee: UNPACK IT FIRST. THERE IS A SURPRISE IN THERE. Botje: heh. Botje++ (does it show that I'm really frustrated with this paper I'm reviewing?) No NUMPY FOR YOU. MUAHAHAH Botje: on my numpy download: indeed. Botje: now I'm going for scipy.. hold still and don't move. Su-Shee: I'm spinning around in my chair. try and stop me. alanjf: too much effort to keep track of. Botje: now that is easily done with a little violence.. ;) kills Botje so he won't move. but but but newton's first law! Botje: maybe your ghost can move. I keep spinning for a while! Botje: "you can't kill Botje" isn't newton's first law. it's not even the 5th. Botje: GO AWAY FROM MY WLAN. Su-Shee: YOU MIS-SPELLED LAWN. Su-Shee: MAYBE IF YOU STOP SHAKING YOUR CANE Botje: IF I ASK MST I'M SURE HE WILL HELP ME WITH SOME CLASSIC BRITISH BOARDING SCHOOL NAVY STYLE CANE-ING.. dammit this python shit requires work. oh wait my irc was stuck, Su-Shee's clearly broken the internet again tm604: it's python's fault. and botje's. not mine. python is correct by definition, everyone else is wrong lol.. that is amazing... pip install scipy requires some library called blas - but that's not available in pip.. reading up on how to install it, I seriously find Fortran compile lines to call by hand.. WHAT THE HELL? #perl Freenode How to stop a discussion please stop now indeed. OK. Perl. Stopping. .......... ... ... . . ||||>>>##### ahahaha yes, let's stop that You are all Nazis! ;-) people who invoke Godwin's law are worse than Hitler #perl Freenode Hegel’s New Clothes i have a school assignment which tells me to: generate a password hash with perl's crypt.... I don't even know where to start. never used perl. :) perldoc -f crypt perlbot: tutorial Botje: http://perl-tutorial.org | http://perl-begin.org/tutorials/ | http://perlmonks.org/index.pl?node=Tutorials | http://learn.perl.org/ sliddjur: is this a high school assignment? sliddjur: or is it a university one? sliddjur: surely you can learn Perl. rindolf: who cares? homework is homework. Su-Shee: so ? We help with homework. Su-Shee: just trying to learn the enemy. Be Prepared. :D its university, but its not a perl/programming class. its just a Linux administration class rindolf: then think first. two minutes of google tell everybody how to use crypt. sliddjur: sorry are you really not able to google how to generate a password IN UNIVERSITY? is listening to Alphaville - Forever Young (“Hoping for the best, but expecting the worst” - great song). i searched for crypt but all I found were Halloween instructions :( Su-Shee: google for Perl stuff. ? Also http://duckduckgo.com/ is better and more consistent than Google. rindolf: yeah because Perl's crypt is TOTALLY different from all the other crypts.. ;) Su-Shee: crypts are like snowflakes - no one alike. ;-) has a huge and comprehensive collection of crypts on his hard disk. I'll soon need to upgrade my hard disk for it. OK, back to topic. also seriously someone at _university_ can't research and learn on his own? sliddjur: I suggest you learn some basic Perl properly from a good tutorial sliddjur: http://perl-begin.org/tutorials/#perl_in_2hours - see this - it's good but see the caveats and unfortunately it is All Rights Reserved (ARR). The author wants to “maintain control” of their work. yes. many do. get over it. Su-Shee: I cannot. Su-Shee: well, I can for some time. rindolf: then don't get over it in the privacy of your room. ;) Su-Shee: OK. is heating up some water for some instant soup. Maybe I'll heat up some Bourekas and/or red rice after that. is not much of a cook. But when I'm hungry, I hack something. Su-Shee: BTW, I think trying to understand Hegel is pointless. Su-Shee: that or Aristotle's Meta-Physics. A lot of high language that yields no gain. And is of close to zero utility. Like The Emperor's New Clothes that only smart people can see. rindolf: yeah that's what everybody thinks who has no clue of philosophy.. Su-Shee: <Su-Shee> rindolf: yeah that's what everybody thinks who has no clue of philosophy.. ==> I rest my case. Su-Shee: BTW, I was able to disprove some of the things I was told that Kant or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%B8ren_Kierkegaard or Descartes said using logic and my own intuition. rindolf: blah. tm604++ # Helping with on-topiccy stuff. rindolf-- # Being off-topic as usual. #perl Freenode Sweet Water Sound: where did you swim? Sound: in the swimming pool? wat in the lake with a shark a lake shark rindolf: yeah, at my gym. underground swimming pool Sound: ah. don't make me stop logging #perl :P popl: heh, lake shark. then I won't remember things. popl++ Sweet water sharks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresh_water - sorry I meant Fresh water sharks. Sweet water is a Hebraism. rindolf: we say that in Italian too Sound: ah, OK. Sound: maybe it comes from Latin and/or Greek. Or Aramaic or Hebrew. Or Sumerian. Or Bolivian. there's about 6000 other languages.. Don't get that crowd started. Su-Shee: prove it popl: I don't have to. Su-Shee: then you're not going to get any ice cream DrForr: that would require any one of them actually speaking some more languages than one or two. ;) popl: I already had French chocolate and Spanish red wine, so.. ;) it's a relatively new expression, before 1909, nobody knew what water was. huf: *hihi* huf: heh. huf++ I am so making a fortune out of it. And yet you will not make a fortune out of it. if I remember correctly, they fascinatingly still don't _really_ know what water is (chemically/physically speaking) due to its weird properties. People only drank rum and beer before 1909. is enjoying a bottle of kriek while deciding what to do about supper. DrForr: I earned more wine after not just having added a keyboard shortcut no but also a window raise to sawfish! (horrible. hor-ri-ble.) earned wine? that sounds like rationalization puts Su-Shee in rehab popl: wth.. it's called CULTURE here and requires a good climate in your cellar and not a stupid rehab ;) more rationalization the first step is admitting you have a problem popl: I admit it. You have a problem i think popl's compulsive rehabilitating behavior is worrying #perl Freenode Chuck Norris and Dimensions New Chuck Norris factoid I came up with today “Chuck Norris’s idea of a short walk is to the Andromeda Galaxy and back.” You’re trying too hard. Also, you’ve ignored the curvature of space. which results from Chuck’s winning smile or Larry’s mustache, depending on one’s frame of reference b0at_: heh. b0at_: Larry Wall’s mustache, right? rindolf: Depending on how many dimensions you think the universe has, his could be the only mustache. So, yes. b0at_: I think the universe has 0 dimensions. zacts: what options are there? b0at_: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/facts/Larry-Wall/ - Larry Wall facts. rindolf: maybe it has -1 dimensions sysdef: or maybe -2.57673438i dimensions. I wonder what an imaginary dimension is. But reportedly fractals are fractional dimensions. #perl Freenode Chuck Norris don’t need no dimensions Who pwns whom, Ozone and Music some people are very attached to their big IDEs, or editors with 1000 features who is advocating vim? j_wright: real men and real women and real boys and real girls use butterflies! fights for Vim! Real cats also use butterflies. preaction: every mighty Klingon warrior uses Vim. Buffy Summers uses vim. only green-blooded Romulan scum use Emacs Since she is on our side, we are definitely going to win. Chuck Norris uses vi Barbapappa: heh. s/ides/ideas/ Barbapappa: Buffy Summers > Chuck Norris. so, Chuck Norris is a vampire? Richard Simmons > Buffy Summers preaction: no, but in the Buffyverse, he's getting pwned by Buffy. Barbapappa: who is Richard Simmons? rindolf: ;O exercise guy preaction: ah. you've probably seen him without knowing preaction: maybe. Weird Al Yankovic > *. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Showdown_of_Ultimate_Destiny - Mr. Rogers > * indeed Anyway, the question is - which editor does God use? teco And which editor does Logic, which is God's master uses? would love to meet the goddess of Logic. j_wright: heh. flamebait :P popl_: what? Logic also has masters. We all do. “A is A, and A is not not-A? WTF is he talking about??! Of course A can be not-A! I want a little of the stuff he's on!” There was something about there being many storms in Ancient Greece, which made them very high on Ozone. No time for existential jibber jabber. Daddy needs new shoes. Ozone in small quantities make you think clearer. s/make/makes/ rindolf: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRx5PrAlUdY how small? :P popl_: the music starts very softly. popl_: is this dubstep? yes popl_: ah. popl_: ah, OK. a dubstep band called o-zone popl_: dubstep is all the rage now. popl_: I'm more into pop/etc. But there's a lot of good dubstep. popl_: I don't like this song much. Seems uneven and inconsistent. I was joking rindolf. It's not dubstep. This is europop, I guess. either way, i am glad i didn't click It was a joke because you were talking about ozone in small quantities. popl_: ah, I see. popl_: seems like Eurodance. I hope so. I murdered the joke and splayed it open for you. j_wright: <irony>It's actually a rick-roll</irony> i don't see the irony popl_: it's funny, but I actually like a lot of the all-girls bands britpop, like Atomic Kitten, All Saints, Girls Aloud, Spice Girls, etc. popl_: also like some songs by Britney Spears. popl_: not sure if Americans are really aware of Atomic Kitten. popl_: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V0xQkk9kbc - hope you can view it. It may be blocked only to Europe. Uploading the .webm now. rsync++. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_Kitten#Members WTF is the point of this chart someone wanted a gold star for this page Hmm.... they are together again? They are whole again! oh dear, fangasm #perl Freenode When Chuck Norris is Not Tough Enough. The New Foobar maukf: GOD WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU? ARE YOU INJURED? he's become more. levelled up new and improved? pick one can't be both (false) well it seems he incremented. f comes after e. soon he will be maukg. how do you split a string into a list of lists? (different delimiters).. trying this, but it doesn't work: map {split ("|")} (split('\n',$output))) there is no such thing as a list of lists i feared that List of arrayrefs. and your regexes are wrong but thought perl5 was supposed to wagle: see DrForr wagle: perldoc perlreftut ; perldoc perldsc ok, thanks goes back to reading about dioxygen difluoride. eval: [ split /\n|\|/, "foo|bar\nbaz" ] # wagle ? east: ["foo","bar","baz"] eval: [map {[split 'a']} split 'b', 'malbajessicaalba'] DrForr: [["m","l"],["","jessic","","l"],[]] wagle: ^^^ maybe. .oO( JessicaAlba might be the new foobar ) without her consent! think she wouldn't like it? #perl Freenode Smokin’ hawt meta-syntactic variables How big is Yaakov’s GREAT HUGE LOVE Yaakov: how is your GREAT HUGE LOVE doing today? rindolf: It's doing very well. Thanks for inquiring. Yaakov: you're welcome. Yaakov: is you GREAT HUGE LOVE bigger than Jupiter? rindolf: it's greater than one universe, but not greater than two tybalt89: ah. rindolf: The magnitude of my love is not a spatial one. It premates all timespace, so there is no spatial measurement that can be made. Comparing it to the extension of any object is meaningless. hmm, "premate" interesting new word tybalt89: “There are only two infinite things: the universe and Yaakov’s GREAT HUGE LOVE.” "premates" ? is that like courtship ? and we're not entirely sure about the universe! Isn't it permeates? Botje: yes. no, premate is obviously not permeate they differ on the second letter, dude. That's what what you call a "tpo". perlbot: define premate rindolf: Whups, no definition for you premeditate? Yaakov: i prefer to think of it as you finding a new gem in the word mines rindolf: classically the third infinite thing is "human stupidity" The problem with routinely using obscure words is that when I make a typo I slashdot dictionary.com. tybalt89: human stupidity has become finite thanks to Yaakov's GREAT HUGE LOVE. rindolf: No. Love does not trump stupidity. #perl Freenode HITHIM welcomes FOSSTAMIL - chandrasekaran to CPAN! welcomes HITHIM - Vladimir Krasulya to CPAN! HITHIM good name HITHER HITLER you just went too far HITTOOFAR hmm, hithim looks like a Hebrew plural mauke: Hittetes. http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%97%D7%AA%D7%99%D7%9D http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hittites WHAT DID YOU DO, MY WHOLE INTERNET IS BACKWARDS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_Hittites lol I can't be the only one who parsed that as "hi titties" ... but I'm biased of course. not me, I was already thinking of "Hethiter" I'm thinking: moar coffee. Su-Shee: I agree with this thought. taotetek: you will run out of coffee, you just locked yourself in ;) I'm thinking: more drugs! Sex and drugs and Rock-N'-Roll… a.k:a drugs and drugs and drugs! #perl Freenode karma war sproingie: so it seems. Thanks for the help! Problem solved. :) sproingie++ # Helping j416 :) rindolf: ty :) j416: you're welcome - you can bump sproingie's karma too. sproingie++ #anyone can do it! sproingie++ # Just because it is fun. cfedde++ anno++ heh karma war! karmapocalpyse. karma singularity! rindolf++ # just to round things out cfedde: thanks. :-) #perl Freenode Getting to Mongolia Yep, build one to throw it away, then never build the second one :) pancake algorithm hihi.. Mongolia has an ACTUAL annual yak shaving contest.. we should all attend. :) How will we get there huh http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinggis_Khaan_International_Airport http://www.theyakranch.com/Yak-Tails/dog-shame-yak-shame.html # Yak Shaving in America. Maddingue: I vote boat Altreus: also, transsiberian railway. options Maddingue: god a Chinggis Khan Airport.. amazing :) Altreus: only 10 days or so from Berlin.. By pack train, of course. how far by foot? KHAAAAAAaaaaaaaaan!(s.) Doesn't have quite the ring of JOHN HARRRRIISSSOOOOOOOOoooon... though. But what wouldn. Huh? No. Just trying to figure out what form of conveyance would take 10 days to get from Berlin to whatever the capital of Mongolia is. Altreus: tell me what water you would put the boat in between Berlin and Mongolia.. ;) Ulan Bator. also, Mongolia is landlocked between Russia and China DrForr: trans-siberian railway, it's actually quite cheap. :) but it _really_ takes roughly 10 days. Oh, right, it's on *that* side. yeah, that makes sense. #perl Freenode Short is Beautiful what's a good SMTP/MIME mail module with few dependencies? Email::Sender seems to have Moo in it and all kinds of stuff I don't really need laouji: why do you worry about dependencies? I guess I don't have to worry about them. I was just wondering if there was something lighter. Moo is already light as hell ok lol if you want something even lighter, see M :) https://metacpan.org/module/M beautiful or Mo ok I will just use Email::Sender although Mo is quite fat compared to M :) There's now just 'M'... *that*'s gonna be simple to search for. DrForr: there's still no .pm use ; huf: what's the "use;"? rindolf: fewer deps! more lightweight! Maybe require ''; will work. huf: heh. this one doesn't even need perl! it "works" equally well with a tea towel writes a /bin/cat script. sed 1d is better Didn't we already do that for PPT? Or is that just me showing my cynicism... You could f*ck with people's heads and require a non-breaking space before the semicolon to make '.pm' work :) #perl Freenode World War 3 aaah. an hour of hiking in the late summer/early autumn weather makes everything better... I deny the notion that it may be autumn already tadzik: damn, I haven't even packed my stuff yet for the invasion.. god what am I going to wear.. a uniform, duh YEAH WHAT COLOR MAN.. black or grey or green... Oo, a woman in uniform. 1st September problems hm, well I look very good in army green.. tadzik: will you greet me at the border? ;) Su-Shee: our cavalry is waiting for your tanks ;) tadzik: I'm not riding a tank.. ugly. noisy. I'm sure there are fluoro electric ones by now tm604: that doesn't fulfil German-Polish WW2 requirements. ;) tadzik: sometimes I wonder if some war game simulations still exist in some dark cellar in some old ministry in Germany Or Poland.. Su-Shee: in Germany? Surely ;) WW, pff.. we've been on WWW since 1996! huf: so, did we miss WWW3 then? 3.1 miss? she's a girl? "War for Workgroups" haha or, "Windows for War". ;) world wide war that's what I was going for with WWW3 world wide war would be number 3 after world war two. ;) no wonder the Department of Defense's website is www.defense.gov :) #perl Freenode The God Object the problem is Ovid tends to compose dozens of roles into classes for no reason I've ever been able to work out maybe he's just being complete? no otherwise I wouldn't be criticising it ok he's fallen into what I refer to as the PantheonObject anti-pattern i.e. breaking a GodObject up into a dozen roles haha mst: when are you writing your book? :P if a god object is broken into a dozen roles, surely they're disciple roles... Su-Shee++ Su-Shee: I think you just caused a rift in the Church. if you instantiate a God object what happens to the rest of society Altreus: well Luther and Calvin start refactoring... Luther and Hobbes hurr sometimes we are so esoteric it is actually painful :P well ok, first Henry VIII publishes a mean spirited book about design pattern and splits from the one true Object. then Calvin and Luther start refactoring. popl: it's no Voynich manuscript well, then the refactoring was done by wycliff, luther, calvin, zwingli? LWA: damn, forgot zwingli. sounds Chinese mst: i will leave the bloviating to you! :) Henry VIII's patterns all involved removing encapsulation and hus. you need hus thrig: nothing ever is popl: mostly, he removed wives ;) unless you're vegetarian, in which case you don't have much use for hus you're confusing it with jus. ;) LWA: wyclef? zwingli sounds like it should be what the third non-alpha character on a variable should be $ # sigil $^ # twigil $^? # zwingli mst: sigil, twigil, zwingil. popl: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wycliffe no not -il -li LWA: yeah I know :) too few words end in -li :) LWA: Bad joke. :( huf: IN YOUR LANGUAGE MAYBE LWA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyclef_Jean chili Su-Shee: i meant in English huf: what the Dutch have with their -je, the Swiss have with -li Su-Shee: _i_ say google as gugli :) huf: English schmenglish(li) huf: weirdo huf: that's adorabli mauke++ maukele :) maukelele? mauke: this is silli everyone gets mangled. silli is a fish huf: we've decided last year in the office to pronounce "Kindle" swabian-german. it sounds so much better. oh yeah, kindle is definitely kindli hufli, maukli, popli. \o/ huffancs is more common peril! ... oops perli i meant perl -li 230 matches for /li$/ i have noticed that saying a piece of software is a "4000 line perl script" with the perl sounding like 'peril' is a really convincing argument send a pingli, vasily! gentli. gentlefolk, surely sureli popl: gentlifolk. dispersed: Don't call me Shirley great now I have Swiss German in my head. Su-Shee: is that a cheese? and god do I wish anybody would understand Asterix puns because.. man Asterix in Switzerland is just amazing. u_n o_o ... smili I heard in Switzerland that all the clocks are made from chocolate. *heard that wut clockolate and the streets are made of cheese lol @ grossly misinformed from cuckoos popl: common misunderstanding. because all Swiss cheese are round, they made all clocks round too. the chocolate is actually a rebellious reaction to that because it's rectangular. and there are no cats in Switzerland they just don't survive there? also, the Swiss get very cranky when they don't get chocolate on time. that's why the Swiss metro/trains etc are so famously punctual. cats don't eat cheese of course they do. they bait their breath with cheese I should get a job teaching foreign cultures. well, maybe you're right to catch mice by transitivity mice eat cheese, cats eat mice, ergo cats eat cheese my cat ate cheese. Su-Shee: your cat likes to cut out the middle-mouse #perl Freenode Older and Wiser mst, yeah I asked; thrig unbanned me. I know when I got that ban I was misbehaving badly and were being rude to you. So I apologize for that. Now I am older and wiser. is now older and more foolish. ZoffixWork: beware from accumulating too much wisdom . ZoffixWork: it's not wise to be too wise. ;-) ZoffixWork: eh, I don't give a fuck about your being rude to -me-, my personality does pretty much invite it most days ZoffixWork: as far the rest ... well, I'm older. wiser I guess we can figure out as we go along :) mst++ # Humility. #perl Freenode Cake Across Europe brain broken. I just had to think for three minutes how to create a branch in git. need chocolate. Same here. not coffee? coffee too. good idea. o/' Code monkey get up get coffee... o/' I think I also need a huge German schnitzel today. Su-Shee: I AM BRINGING THREE HUGE PIES TO THE OFFICE TODAY! Botje: WRONG Botje: YOU BRING TWO TO YOUR OFFICE AND ONE TO ME. HOW CAN IT BE WRONG IF IT'S SO TASTY Botje: BECAUSE YOU COUNTED WRONG IT'S ONLY FOUR HOURS OF FLYING. YOU CAN STILL GET HERE IN TIME. seriously, Brussels - Berlin 4 hours? probably less. a hell of a lot less, actually. unless they moved it behind Moscow or so.. 1h25 it sure felt like four hours when we went, hmmm. EVEN BETTERER! CAKE TIME IS AT 12:30! LEAVE NOW BE THERE ON TIME yes, because it's one and a half hour flight and additional 4 hours getting there, waiting, checking in, getting out.. ;) I have cake right here with me. Cake time is whenever I want it to be. if you don't take luggage it's quite fast ten minutes check in, ten minutes security, run to gate, board, land, take taxi, have cake. why can't flying be as simple and fast as boarding a train... haha it used to be :) Trains aren't simple any more in the US. :( Botje: yeah, I remember vaguely. Now we have the TSA. Su-Shee: ah, maybe Brussels - Berlin by train is four hours. #perl Freenode Rules of the #perl Channels “The first rule of the #perl channels: you don't talk about non-Freenode #perl channels. The second rule of the #perl channels: "#perl" always refers to Freenode's #perl.” ?? Nei: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=rules%20of%20the%20fight%20club - see this . I haven't watched the film , just read that quote. You haven't watched /Fight Club/?... DrForr: the first rule of watching /Fight Club/ is you never say that you watched /Fight Club/ . ;-) well, what else would you use a club for? uses the club to club breadwarden . /Club Fight Club/ Is that a club for club fight or a club to club a fight club? a club where the clubbers club fight clubs DrForr: I recently finished watching the first /Matrix/ film, and not sure I really liked it, but was glad I did because it's a film that everyone expects you to have watched. Haifa Linux Clubbing. It hasn't aged well in these days of CGI and Avatar, I'm afraid. DrForr: /The Matrix/ ? Yeah. DrForr: hmm... well, I found the quality of the effects there pretty good, but didn't like the movie in general. DrForr: at least I didn't feel 100% unable to continue watching it. Like has happened with some other books or films. Well, if the books have Stephenie Meyer's name anywhere on them that's a natural reaction. DrForr: I haven't read Stephenie Meyer. (as is storming out of the theatre and vociferously demanding your money back, *along* with the wasted portion of your life, *along* with the bits of your soul that got left behind.) DrForr: http://www.amazon.com/xUnit-Test-Patterns-Refactoring-Code/dp/0131495054 - this is a book I gave up on twice, and think is redundant. DrForr: heh. DrForr++ I couldn't even make it through 20 minutes of Twilight with Rifftrax' help. DrForr: and I recall forcing myself to finish The Lord of The Rings (the book) and not remembering anything about it. It was like watching The X Files, with even *less* chemistry between the leads. DrForr: hmm.. haven't watched The X Files put down a 1000-pager on page 950 to make a point See, that implies that someone outside the age of 15-17 actually *watched* the movie. Which is scary enough as it is. I *saw* the crowd at the last Twilight premiere. I haven't watched Twilight, but I saw a crossover parody of it, Buffy, Karate Kid and Harry Potter on YouTube that I found hilarious. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsT0wD6pmo4 # All you need to see. DrForr: quite awful indeed. DrForr: /A Suitable Boy/ was a very long book, but it wasn't boring it all. I enjoyed almost all of it. #perl Freenode What you wish you would have to experience. AJAX URLs hm, do browsers treat URLs encoded/not-encoded with foo/bar/baz#fumpp versus foo/bar/baz%23fumpp differently? (aka in-page links)? they should dammit. 's the point of urlencoding yeah, I really wasn't sure, I haven't used in-page links for at least a decade or so. # doesn't get send to the server Now there's also them AJAX URLs #!op/sub-op/foo-12353ab343 unless via JS "now" you mean years ago before js got the history api huf: maybe - I still see them sometimes. but yeah, lots of crap still does the #! thing "now" everyone is using the history api to fake real looking URLs that could be sent to the server right Google Groups I'm looking at you. Nei: yeah. so great. :( "our websites are huge and slow and clunky. i know, let's add MORE crap" hihihi I share the room with a php dev and he loves his shit and tells me all those horror stories how they implement this caching and another caching to speed things up huf: no, I'm really honestly using real in-page links :) at least this way we get to spend CPU cycles on *gasp* transitions! Su-Shee: yeah, those are fine and cool and replace everything with AJAX and in-page div replacement so it doesn't feel sluggish huf: not when they get encoded apparently.. :) Nei: and somehow it's still not as fast as a nice clean simple website built with HTML 4 and no CSS. Just the content, cleanly. No crap. Su-Shee: write some js to decode it and AJAX and ... oh god at least php auto-gzips for you unless it segfaults :D (guess what we spent our time with yesterday...) #perl Freenode How have the wise men helped with their ruling? Information Overload CPAN Upload: Tinkerforge-2.0.1 by ISHRAQ http://metacpan.org/release/ISHRAQ/Tinkerforge-2.0.1 https://metacpan.org/pod/release/ISHRAQ/Tinkerforge-2.0.1/lib/Tinkerforge.pm - WTF is tinkerforge? :-( who knows mr google http://www.tinkerforge.com/en/home/what_is_tinkerforge/ Ah, I think I understand. pink_mist: damn, it took 10 minutes to find out who and why sent me this "tinkerforge" link. I looked through all my Jabber, ICQ and Skype conversation and found nothing! EmbargEr: heh :P blame rindolf :P I blame my brain EmbargEr: that's the danger of just clicking things Altreus: exactly EmbargEr: maybe you're suffering (like me) from information overload. EmbargEr: which according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_overload#Early_history the author of Ecclesiastes (~300 BC) complained about as well. “There's nothing new under the sun.” well... argh, MORE INFORMATION! thanks rindolf :P pink_mist: it's information about information overload. pink_mist: meta-information overload. :P #perl Freenode Knowing that I know too much is too much knoweldge Scaring Users Off I hate this "oh shit this isn't really properly normalized" - more and more tables - "what am I doing here?" - bounce back, reduce number of tables to something sensible - is there a shortcut? ;) MONGO hides Altreus: you know if you don't play nice we make you stay in #php and never allow you to do any perl any more ;) I don't think I'm allowed in there #php, ##php.. ###php php isn't allowed an official channel ###webscale My new phone is so responsive I hate using my laptop now :( #php_into_the_ground Altreus: because.. the laptop is... ? table based hello laughs out loud at his own jokes user_1879: hi. Afternoon. exit rindolf: you scared him away! rindolf++ # scaring users off siamsara: :-) siamsara++ # Good joke. siamsara: no users are good users. Well, I mean «no users» -> «good users» not For each user -> user is not good. yes, the Norwegian users are all good users :P not like us users or even my users Heh. What shall be users be? Will there be users? users, good god, what are they good for. absolutely nothing! bug testing #perl Freenode Users? We Don’t Need No Stinkin’ Users. Quantifying Emoticons Altreus: it's live now. Thanks! http://is.gd/HdVT69 :)! Altreus: heh. Altreus: is the "!" a kind of beard? Well no but it could be It just means "very" as with all exclamations ¡! ¿? that's a handlebar moustache ¡! that is just "very ¡" Altreus: I thought that was what :D was for =) Naw That's a different expression, not just more of the same :)! is :) but more so ah I see Also allows for :D! is ":) :)" more or less than a :)! ? ¯\(._.)/¯ I don't have that in my repertoire :)! is :) * :) - 1 * :) - 2 ... 1 but :) :) is 2:) so... more FSVO :) less for the others #perl Freenode An SMS about the fax… rindolf: Can you send me an RT bug on that? NaFTP, requesting the REST command and IPv6 support LeoNerd: OK. LeoNerd: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=95574 You do know these things are emailed to me, and so you don't need to highlight my attention on IRC right? :) hey LeoNerd, you should've received a mail about that ticket you wanted! ends Botje an SMS to remind him about the fax containing my reply to his telex please don't end me, it was just a joke tweet him a link to your facebook post containing a screenshot of your tumblr you _could_ mention it on G+, but only google employees would see it inb4 vine make a youtube video of you sending the tweet selfie instagram whisper it into a beer and then pop round to LeoNerd's and give it to him personally Oooh that would work :) ha! at least one could "pop 'round" i don't think that's legal outside Britain perhaps in the more colonier former colonies. post it on stackoverflow, link it on /r/LeoNerd why is there no /r/LeoNerd? dunno, report a bug you should wait for the future to resolve. #perl Freenode 2014’s 4th of July’s #perl Green Tea Party hm, was there a time datatype for duration in postgres? or am I just wishful thinking? Su-Shee: 'interval'? Radditz: nice. :-) _DrForr++ # Helping Su-Shee _DrForr: lemme look. merci. _DrForr: why do you have a leading underscore now? At least in 9.1. eats the underscore. _DrForr: I have the latest and shiniest postgres. Haven't found and /killed my clone, I guess. You'll spoil your dinner. It was a good underscore. Minty with a hint of cranberries. _DrForr: ah. /msg NickServ HELP GHOST? oh genius. interval hour to minute is exactly what I need. interval is awesome PostgreSQL++ my favorite: allballs ;) Underscores are the most nutritious punctuation. But you also need to eat letters, digits and whitespace for a balanced diet. ;-) r 2 hours ago you said you were going to sleep rindolf: * I much prefer scheme's-name-style And both uppercase and lowercase letters are important. humor! LeoNerd: See my -? ;) Su-Shee: ooooh... I hadn't thought of that. Yes :) Altreus: I went to sleep and woke up with some great ideas for my new screenplay. rindolf: do you normally sleep in short periods? LeoNerd: sadly, doesn't work most of the time elsewhere. most login names for example don't allow - rindolf: or was it just a nap LeoNerd: half of the perlbot refuse me because of it too. ;) Altreus, anno : also see http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=sharp-xkcd-programming-languages-sex-talk . yeah, sure Altreus: just a nap - lately I've been hypomanic so I sleep less at once. Altreus: and wake up early. Altreus: I also have many small meals. rindolf: I have found that having a shitty job helps me regulate my depression. popl: ah, OK. popl: I'd like to get a job where I interact with people a lot. popl: like a shop vendor. popl: so far many of these places asked me for my age, and I'm 1977-born. And* a Technion graduate in EE. So people may think I'm overqualified. huf! where are you! HELP! But there are no small jobs - only small workers. More efficient, you can pack more into a small space. I've seen some very large workers. popl: heh. popl: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/Emma-Watson-applying-for-a-software-dev-job/ - paraphrasing on what I wrote here. popl: I didn't mean small in physical size - just "Rosh qatan" and with a big ego. perlbot: rosh gadol perlbot: search for rosh perlbot: Rosh Gadol is http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2004/12/06.html - literally "Big Head" or "Small Head", Hebrew slang for taking initiative, and being awesome at your job or responsibilities regardless of how small they are. rindolf: Stored Rosh Gadol is http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2004/12/06.html - literally "Big Head" or "Small Head", Hebrew slang for taking initiative, and being awesome at your job or responsibilities regardless of how small they are. perlbot: learn Rosh Qatan is [fact Rosh Gadol] rindolf: Stored Rosh Qatan is [fact Rosh Gadol] as perlbot: rosh qatan rindolf: No factoid found. Did you mean one of these: [Rosh Gadol] pink_mist: can you help? perlbot: alias rindolf: use the new mkalias command: mkalias foo <- bar We need aliases for both rosh qatan and rosh katan no, we don't. or do they indicate perl stuff? In The Gilmore Girls ( ♥! ), Lorelai started off as a cleaner of that inn, and ended up running that place. Su-Shee: it is related to Perl. no, it's not. Su-Shee: and it has nothing to do with sex/celebrities/etc. yes and you can still stop dropping all your private shit into the bot. No, it's a term from a blog about software. It's as related to perl as 'scrum' is. Su-Shee: why do you think that perlbot should be about 100% perl stuff? On irc.perl.org purl has stuff from Monty Python. rindolf: the name "perl" bot might be an indicator. and we're not on irc.perl.org and purl is purl. _DrForr++ Historical accident. Su-Shee: well, we discussed Rosh Gadol/Qatan in the past here. Su-Shee: it's part of #perl's culture. nice try. you're the only one who's dropping his culture into the bot. how about making your own bot for it. I'm guessing you mean 'you' there. Su-Shee: perlbot is the bot of #perl, #perlcafe, and related channels - not of the perl 5 programming language. So you're now the arbiter, I see. _DrForr: what? perlbot: define arbiter rindolf: arbiter n 1: someone with the power to settle matters at will; "she was the final arbiter on all matters of fashion" [syn: {arbiter}, {supreme authority}] 2: someone chosen to judge and decide a disputed issue; "the critic was considered to be an arbiter of modern literature"; "the arbitrator's authority derived from the consent of the disputants";... [Output truncated. Use `more` to read more] Ah, hah. _DrForr: well, it's ultimately up to thrig to decide. oh if we take thrig's sense of humor as a measurement I see interesting times and judgements ahead.. ;) _DrForr: or Su-Shee and I can try to convince one another of our righteousness using THERMO-NUCLEAR-WAR! LOVELY WEATHER TODAY. jkg: LOVELIEST! Would you like to play a game? jkg: THERE IS NO JUSTICE! THERE'S ONLY ME!!! how about a nice game of chess? _DrForr: is it a quote from WarGames? Finally enlightenment strikes. jkg: "A battle of wits? To the death?! I accept!!" I think you switched movies :) jkg: seamlessly. if I'm going to war over this, I will win without a battle. Oooooh... cheater. Gotta love a girl who bends the rules - http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=david-vs-goliath--hacker . Su-Shee: so how are you going to win without a battle? Will you poison my water? I never cheat. I don't need to. Because you will nicely fall into your own sword without me even moving a finger. and we're almost there. and I will have warned you and I will have made transparent how this works and you will not believe it and yet it will be happening. Ooohhh... free man destroying himself. evil mastermind 101: never tell your adversaries that you're close to achieving your goals. jkg: heh. jkg++ jkg: But come on, the cliche'd Bond villain speech is a *classic*. jkg: wrong. tell them. often. they don't believe you anyways. Su-Shee++ perlbot: thanks rindolf: If you want to thank us, help out by sending some money (even just a little) to the Perl Foundation to help with perl5 development - https://secure.donor.com/pf012/give cyber37_guest: ^^^ heh cyber37_guest: also feel free to lurk here and learn more or ask more questions. cyber37_guest: time >>> money. perlbot: time rindolf: ($sec,$min,$hour,$mday,$mon,$year,$wday,$yday,$isdst)=localtime(time); OR Modules: Time::Piece, Time::Format, Time::Tiny, etc. "time. Don't talk to me about time. It's sooooo depressing" If only we had cryptotime - BitDuration. And no - I don't mean timestamps. LeoNerd: heh. so. now I wrote 27 tables and didn't try one of them and now I'm going to shove them all into the database with a makefile which of course will explode .. because.. I didn't try any of them. sounds like fun mostly like "stupid" Su-Shee: good luck. Hubris! Tests are overrated Well, a good amount of hubris is useful in moderation. If it breaks, your users will let you know LeoNerd: heh. .oO( mine do ;) ) We wouldn't have had modern tech without Hubris. Or without neophilia. LeoNerd: I have tests actually. thanks to theory's amazing pgtap/mytap. the three virtues of a great programmer: laziness, hubris and necrophilia Always mount a scratch database. LeoNerd: haven't adjusted them to the new stuff yet because I can't be bothered to do real TDD ;) jkg: necrophilia? haha I just realised, I completely misread you. I did think it was a bit weird... jkg: yes, neophilia - love of novelty. jkg: possibly being a hipster. sure, I know the word - I just misread and thought you'd dialled the weirdness up another notch ;) Both neophilia and hubris should be done in moderation. well, arguably a necrophil is someone who uses antiquated stuff. Like Thé Symbul in http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Star-Trek/We-the-Living-Dead/ . saves jkg's quote for use later out of context :) Zoffix: you're welcome, I guess :) Her character was inspired by a very powerful sorceress in the D&D Forgotten Realms world, but in the story, she only has very primitive "superpowers", and is annoyed by always being considered the opposite. And still she is considered one of the most influential Qs. Zoffix: meow. \o Zoffix: how is the 4th of July treating you canuks? Oh... Happy 4th of July, all you guys down below :) Zoffix: heh. rindolf, business as usual. Except with the US company we deal with being closed, I guess all the customers will be calling me today, instead of them :( Zoffix: what time is it there? 6:12am Zoffix: ah, I see. :-( Zoffix: will you get paid extra? Zoffix: ah, good time. For what? Zoffix: how's the weather? Zoffix: for handling all their calls? no Zoffix: I'm trying to find a company to sponsor my summer trip to Europe. heh Zoffix: I'm willing to be their cheerleader for the duration of the trip. Su-Shee: hmm/ ? huf: too late. ;) contemplates marrying a chick called Fish and becoming the Fish-Fish family. There are some Miss Fish of English descent who are not Jewish, including some in .us. Any ddoser here LinuxGuy: what? LinuxGuy: no nefarious activity. LinuxGuy: and don't PM me. LinuxGuy: DDoS is wrong. yeah but its right if it perform for good cause i can pay for attack LinuxGuy: Wrong channel. LinuxGuy: Go away. (Rock@119.159.20.35) has left *Wrong network that was surprisingly effective. Also... WTF my LShift+* don't work :( >:) bullshit losers some people make me want to beat them with a rake filthy infidel I have no problems whatsoever with a ddos as a political thing. paying for it is stretching it though. (~anno@p5DDB0683.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined to paraphrase Asimov "DDoS is the last resort of the incompetent" DDoS is stupid. popl: maybe. I still don't have a problem with it as a political act. I might find blockades, boycotts or barricades equally stupid. we had to spend money on anti-ddos kit because of idiots. Were you ddosed by the guys who sold you the anti-ddos kit? :) that's an excellent marketing strategy. heh yeah, sounds like a good business opportunity. Great until the court hearing. they also stop portscans and what-not. which was the main reason for getting them. $12 wrench beats $2000 anti-DDoS software. they are network bridges really. popl, that's why you should find someone online to ddos for you, for payment. Oh, wait! That's what LinuxGuy was doing! See? We figured out. LinuxGuy is the guy who sold BinGOs anti-ddos kit :D Your logic is exceedingly Canadian. I'm familiar with deductive and inductive logic and all that.. but Canadian.. popl, yes, Canadian logic is invariably brilliant :P Also, WTF are you gonna do with a $12 wrench? syrupy Zoffix: What would you do with a $12 wrench. s/\./\?/ popl, sell it for $20 Ah, LinuxGuy went away. Zoffix: <Zoffix> Oh, wait! That's what LinuxGuy was doing! See? We figured out. LinuxGuy is the guy who sold BinGOs anti-ddos kit :D ==> heh! Zoffix++ This channel is very funny today. Zoffix: conspiracy theories FTW! Stop! Reddit time. lol... Did he really think someone was going to do some ddosin' for him? go play with ping and send exceedingly large and Canadian packets Anti-ddos? How does that work if it's a packet storm unless you can prune that at the ISP? load balancing! ddefense you just need to set up flow of the same frequency and amplitude, half a phase out of sync. #perl Freenode Life, Liberty and the pursuit of IRC amusement in the absence of .us-ers MS Comic Chat on Windows 8 WARNING: MS Comic Chat runs swimmingly under Windows 8. Yaakov: heh. # Appears as Yaakov Yaakov: ah, comic chat. I like Windows 8.1 as much as I have ever liked Windows. I don't want ot use it, but... Yaakov: is it still maintained? It is abandonware but you can get it. odd, I found Windows 8 about the first usable version I just tested it, and it works like a champ. I thought you meant MS Comics Sans. Yaakov: how are you? How's the wife and kids too? thrig: Windows 3.11, Windows NT, Windows 95 C, Windows XP SP1, Windows 8.1 is my list. rindolf: Well, well. Thanks. Also, Windows Phone 8.1 But, I am not a Windows user any more. i can't stand 8.1 =\ Yaakov: did you donate some of your patented GREAT HUGE LOVE™ for needy people recently? ;-) Though I have machines that run it, and a Windows 8.1 phone. I haven't declaimed it in this channel. But it must be spontaneous to be real, so it will have to wait until it happens "by itseI LOVE YOU ALL WITH A GREAT HUGE LOVE Oh. There. Yaakov: :-) Yaakov: I LOVE YOU WITH MY OWN GREAT HUGE LOVE TOO. Spread the LOVE! Spread the GREAT HUGE LOVE! Share and enjoy the great huge love. #perl Freenode Can’t get enough of Yaakov’s GREAT HUGE LOVE Jobs, Emma Watson, Saladin & Knights Templar what is the best way to find a nice job doing perl in Los Angeles? johndoemer: jobs.perl.org? johndoemer: there's also the LA Perl mongers. johndoemer: and a jobs mailing list. I never did a mailing list since in like 95 when I got 500 emails in 1 day from one are they safe? johndoemer: note that I'm trying not to be picky about which jobs I get - http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/Emma-Watson-applying-for-a-software-dev-job/ ? johndoemer: what do you mean by "safe"? johndoemer: you can set up filters. also, the pm lists are usually pretty low-volume johndoemer: what is the worst thing you suspect will happen? I guess I never learned how to use a mailing list so I sign up and how do I read it without getting 500 emails a day? look at the archives to see how many e-mails get sent per day I dunno I just gotta escape this Unix admin job stuff I'm doing johndoemer: put it in a separate folder. just the interviews driving me batty fuck ansible and chef What is ansible? Is it a Ruby thing? emma watson is butt like a 3 short with no boobs johndoemer: butt? crappy hair looks like a dude johndoemer: :-(. zomg some brits think shes hottest woman in film? oh my gods!! butt ugly fake teeth and a lack of pimples doesn't mean your pretty caveman brow short with no tits or ass zomg I'm fairly certain that this is not on-topic for #perl lol johndoemer: maybe you should change your attitude. After I reached enough enlightenment, I find the vast majority of women attractive enough. holy crap did they make 8 harry potter films? johndoemer: but preaction is right. johndoemer: yes. 7 books, +1 last split in two the first was one of worst movies ever and glorification of government school elitism over capitalism is gross garbage did harry ever even pork her? johndoemer: pork? I'm not sure how that tracks, but this is still not a #perl topic I thought uk was protestant and all the girls got the pill at 15 and its was fun fun fun fuck so anyway johndoemer: you have a strange jargon. anna nicole smith si hot vanessa montagne sarenna lee pamela anderson wow not emma watson johndoemer: and I hope you don't have this attitude IRL. jeesh for 20 years i wish he didn't have it here, either ok johndoemer: please stop. I will say this rover is < than mad max bad movie ok so why is mojo better than dancer? johndoemer: some people may disagree that it is. perlbot: mojo rindolf: Perl johndoemer, what did you think of her performance in The Bling Ring? perlbot: mojolicious rindolf: No factoid found. Did you mean one of these: [makealias] [mkalias] ol that wasn't very helpful perlbot http://jobs.perl.org/job/18908 I wonder how they pay for expert in perl and SQL, 180K? johndoemer: 180KUSD/year? us $ I mean an expert in perl must make 125k minimum add that database wizardry SQL etc ahaha must bump it up no? hell I was making 80/h doing Linux but this whole chef thing got outa hand johndoemer: most Perl people know SQL to some extent. I think some java idiots decided lets automate away sysadmins so they wont tell us we are morons I know sql but what version of "expert" I am I don't know johndoemer: you may wish to read http://shlomifishswiki.branchable.com/Saladin_Style/ has everything got to be JavaScript now? I hate JavaScript websites with hot red passion After Harry and Ron save her from a mountain troll in the girls' toilets, she becomes close friends with them and often uses her quick wit, deft recall, and encyclopaedic knowledge to help them. slaad style? like th ebig lizard men from fiend folio? johndoemer: I use NoScript. flight18: what? johndoemer: Saladin style. Pretty amazing, huh? whos that? johndoemer: Saladin was “ Ṣalāḥ ad-Dīn Yūsuf ibn Ayyūb (Arabic: صلاح الدين يوسف بن أيوب‎; Kurdish: سه‌لاحه‌دین ئه‌یوبی , Selahedînê Eyûbî) (1137/1138 – March 4, 1193), better known in the Western world as Saladin was a Muslim Sultan who liberated most of Palestine from the rule of the Knights Templar and the Christian crusaders,” paladin? like a holy warrior? johndoemer: the first true Hacker Monarch/Warrior Monarch. sounds like a guy that should have been in assassin's creed 1 :) ah, he was I want a movie where knights templar kill a lot of bad guys that's be awesome Grinnz: heh. knights of the round table! yeah! johndoemer: King Arthur predates the knights templar. johndoemer: there were quite a few films about Saladin. johndoemer, except in assassin's creed, the knights templar are the bad guys ;) why bad? didnt they guard the galaxy against evil for a thousand generations? using the force? The Legend of Robin Hood is generally set in the time of Richard I/Saladin, but the earliest British records predate that. johndoemer: heh. johndoemer, because they want to control the world, etc awesome same as the brits did briefly eh Grinnz: well, the Knights Templar started as paranoid, murderous and violent and mostly mentally ill. menatlly ill? hah smart sounds like to me had multinatinoal mob i bet they hid lots of hot women in thier holds n a[prtied sign me up do you by chance have any foreign substances in your bloodstream? Unix adminning is pissing me off Grinnz: and after Saladin was through with them, they were happy, noble, peaceful mostly sane, and unwilling to fight him. nop just pissed at bad Unix admin job interviews gone bad and outa work not sure what to do get your skills up-to-date with the new orchestration technologies? johndoemer, why are you here? for fun u? I kinda don't believe in config management orchestration this is a Perl support channel. the Perl chat channel is on irc.perl.org I believe in client server computing and concurrency at language level, name based virtual hosts etc there are people who don't believe in name based virtual hosts? how is any of that against configuration management? well why have 10 URLs on 10 VMs mate, if u can have 10 on 2 servers, with name based virtual hosts eh? i don't like setting up boxes over and over and over again. i like getting a config right and then copying it to dozens or hundreds of machines, as I'm sure most admins also like but then, i like the idea of rexify.org, where i can run adhoc scripts on multiple machines on the command line. from what i saw, ansible and chef don't allow that #perl Freenode Hear me roar, Katy Perry, and idiots vs. geniuses meow Altreus: meow. Altreus: sup? rindolf: -_- woof rpag: roar! I've brought out the bear rpag: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CevxZvSJLk8 - you're gonna hear me roar! rpag: you were supposed to bring the /beer/ ._. rindolf, o dear i cant listen to that, reminds me of my recent ex-girlfriend Altreus, :) rpag: heh, what was wrong with her? nothing, she just listened to Katy Perry all the time rpag: ah, I see. rpag: why did you break up? oh I thought maybe she roared a lot haha rindolf: duh, because she liked Katy Perry a lot she did, sometimes :) Altreus: heh. Altreus++ rindolf, because I'm an idiot :P rpag: ah. rpag: you're an idiot who writes Perl? Only geniuses can write Perl. no, any idiot can write perl only geniuses can read it spb: heh. only geniuses can read perl written by an idiot i haven't written perl, or any language, in a while, writers block or something rpag: not even English? :P #perl Freenode “Required Joke about Emacs” so I can't do a recursive include with PERL5LIB? I have to defend every code change and this is really for my own use (emacs) qizwiz: you can try using File::Find or whatever. qizwiz: depends on how you set it shell has glob too :) or you can write a script and symlink everything together and include a single dir recursive? use an overlay mount! fish bananas old pajamas butter'd scones for lunch? qizwiz: there's no such thing as a recursive lib dir; you need a base lib dir, so that things like Some::Deep::Namespace::Module can be found at Some/Deep/Namespace/Module.pm it doesn't search very hard for these things, it just goes by @INC has quit (Quit: leaving) or I could just use emacs itself to build the env variable. That's probably easiest. qizwiz, http://perldoc.perl.org/lib.html well, "easiest" would be to remake the "cpan modules" dir by using cpanm or something to download whatever specific versions you need ;) <required joke about emacs here> <required joke about plumbers fixing emacs problem> Grinnz: that's not an obvious solution to me. What do you mean exactly? qizwiz: instead of having cpan modules installed in different lib dirs, install them all to the same lib dir @INC can contain functions, but that's getting even more insane they are designed to coincide kaitlyn: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=sharp-sharp-programming-your-emacs-so-fat debugging a dynamic @INC will be hell on wheels qizwiz: and cpanm can be directed to install a specific version of a module with "cpanm Module::Name@1.2345" but you'd have to set it up so it's installing to the right dir first carton is perfect for that right, or that rindolf: All joking aside, emacs is a great editor. I just don't know enough LISP to properly start it. wait, emacs is also an editor? sproingie: I'm pretty sure it's an IRC client. i thought it was another improved replacement for sysvinit sproingie: Actually, not really. I can take whatever function I'm running on emacs that's going to hit @INC in some way and 'advise' it to set the PERL5LIB variable before it's run. I can even cache it to make it more performant I'm sure the next systemd will have emacs built in Grinnz_: heh. sproingie: not sure, i think it will be the other way around #perl Freenode How Chuck Norris learnt Perl Are there any videos to supplement http://learn.perl.org/ ? dyre17: szabgab has released some. There are a number of perl topics on slideshare dyre17: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5KYZ74OAak if you search for 'yapc' on youtube, you'll find loads of perl talks; not all of them are introductory though. dyre17: I also created http://perl-begin.org/ . dyre17, you could check the videos from some YAPC conferences: https://www.youtube.com/user/yapcna/playlists I still don't understand why perldoc isn't enough to learn perl But I've also accepted that it apparently isn't for most people. with prior coding experience it is otherwise probably not :O) different people learn differently too "Mark Hamill reads perldocs" (video: someone paging through the perldocs) i could listen to John Noble read the perldocs heh thrig: Chuck Norris has the whole perldocs memorised. sproingie: that the dad from fringe? Mark Hamill playing the Joker reading perldocs hekmek: My prior experience was TCPL 2nd ed. pink_mist: and the horseman of war in sleepy hollow, yep rindolf: Chuck Norris learned perl by scrutinizing the surface of a magnetic platter holding a copy of the perl binary. Soltis: heh. I'd always suggest reading books on computer science and then some official doc on whatever language you wanna learn Then he round house kicked Guido Soltis: Chuck Norris was born knowing Perl. Before it was created. rindolf: No, that was Gauss Soltis: don't you mean Summer Glau? pink_mist: No, she's fictional. pink_mist: Summer Glau is a figment of Chuck Norris's imagination. Soltis: she is not. Soltis: for all you know, you may not exist, and Chuck Norris convinced you that you do. rindolf: No, I'm a brain in a jar somewhere. Soltis: Chuck Norris knows where that jar is. ;-) rindolf: I just come to #perl when they push LSD into my nutrient bath. #perl Freenode Forking LeoNerd I usually try to avoid the problem by just never taking over anything anyone else has written ;) Though Socket and S-L-U are sort of exceptions there... :/ i tend to do more forks than maintenance, so i just put my name up at the top, then "based on <original name> by <original author> <original copyright here>" Except that forks are generally terrible things to do to software use threads forks LeoNerd to LeoNerd::Simple I once fought with your father, during the fork wars LeoNerd::Simple::ButMaintained A fork tends to divide the community of other contributors, weakening the pool of potential improvements on either side It's a sort of last-ditch attempt who would ever ditch LeoNerd.. ;) hopes nobody suggests LeoNerd::Tiny the stuff i fork tends to be fairly obscure anyway suggests LeoNerd::Minuscule Leo::Nerd cPanel::LeoNerd LeoNerd::MaybeXS some times it would be nice to have a simple CLI for LeoNerd. CGI::LeoNerd Devel::REPL::LeoNerd LeoNerd6 LeoNerd: why, are you getting bloated? feature reep c Feature: creep I would fall off my chair of laughter just now if I wouldn't sit on a futon... Altreus: No, I just don't see why I need to be able to be installed on a no-deps core-only setup :) Aren't you core? use feature 'creep'; #perl without LeoNerd in it is not a complete installation so true. :) I still wonder if I should have taken the CPAN name 'LEONERD' instead oh I just asked the previous maintainer for someone's address and then found it earlier in the pod -_- LeoNerd: OF COURSE YOU SHOULD HAVE LeoNerd: we all have regrets LeoNerd: why not both dot jpg regrets, I've had a few LeoNerd: who on earth - other than your parents - knows you're pevans?! I feel reasonably unique in having my nick on cpan Su-Shee: wellll... the prevailing theme on PAUSE does seem to be initial lastname So I just went with that #perl Freenode Ewwww oh, thanks tm604++ # Helping ZadYree rindolf, eww ;) ZadYree: mewww! 0_o eww? Eww! pink_mist: ZadYree and I say "ewwww" to each other for greeting or approval. not oooh? pink_mist: it started from a conversation we had when I said I'm going to say "Ewwwww" for everything people told me about what they were doing. pink_mist: after someone told me "XML? Ewwwww!" when I told him I'm working with XML. So I said something like "You ate an apple? Ewwww!" rindolf: heh, right :P pink_mist: ewwww! ;-) now I'm going to go into town and get pizza ... it's horrible being out in the countryside and not being able to get pizza without making it yourself! =( pizza: ewww! pink_mist: Pizza! Yum yum. Soltis: heh, you're doing it right. Soltis++ Finally works fine playing with scalar context. Damn, such solutions make me understand I am way far from mastering Perl. ZadYree: awesome. perlbot, lists and things tm604: http://altreus.blogspot.com/2011/08/lists-and-things-made-of-lists.html ^ might help Homemade pizza while living in the sticks-- that brings back traumatic memories. (PROTIP: never use whole wheat under-aged sourdough for pizza crust) ewww indeed My parents were not good cooks. Still aren't, actually. If someone tells me their food is just like my mother used to make, I'll run for the hills. pink_mist: it's horrible being in town and getting pizza you don't make yourself, though unless you have a Pizza Stop like we do cos they do really good pizza DO YOU Altreus, how about a pizza place where you make your own pizza? With all the toppings perlbot: vague rindolf: vague question is really, really vague, in fact it's so fucking vague that you can't even caption a cat with it because the cat would DIE OF VAGUE | http://www.trout.me.uk/vague.jpg vague: you must get highlighted a lot. rindolf, I do. Stop using my name so frivolously vague: OK. Thank you :) do not take vague's name in vague. I mean, in vain. /nick vain oi Don't take it at all. I have it registered and ghosted! vague: sounds like an excuse to charge customers for the privilege of saving you money Whatever floats my boat bouyancy imagination vague doesn't have a boat irrelevant Boats all float by the same mechanic if there's no boat there's no float and the physics doesn't matter Altreus: imagined boats can float by whichever mechanics the imaginer decides. surely they can't float at all since the floating would also be imaginary Imagined boats are suspended by vague plausibility. That's far too complex for this discussion. Soltis is just gratuitously highlighting vague, which I am all for for which I am all #perl Freenode Booleans in Perl Varsuchi: but "true" is not a Perl built-in. .......... so 1 or 0 then instead of true? usually, yes perlbot: false rindolf: undef, 0, "", "0" Varsuchi: just use it in boolean context. while x = 1 for true .. sure Varsuchi: “ while ($run) { ... }” my $run = 1; while ($run) { ... } didn't know perl didn't support bools makes sense! it does, just everything is a bool it does support bools, it just doesn't select two values and name them because bool is a way of looking at things not a thing itself looks at huf boolishly Varsuchi: true is a property of a value, not a value anno: and I'm truthy i see my $huf = 0; #my huf isn't truthy :P it's truthy, it's just not truey our $huf = ''; # our huf is empty inside our @huf = (); # it's just an empty shell none of those are me 1 while <huf> sub huf { "he's also submissive" } has a handle on huf HEY! i wear clothes, don't make me out to be one of those nudist handles pink_mist: let's go with that it returns a true value after all :P but really, I'm a starry eyed shepherd #perl Freenode The true meaning of truthfulness. length $n - 1 Hi all. So today I learned that: 1. Math::BigInt is much slower than native 64-bits even with the 'GMP' backend (which I already knew, but I had it in legacy code). and - 2. `length $n - 1` evals to `length ($n - 1)` which was surprising. deparse: length $n - 1 simcop2387: length( ( $n - 1 ) ); simcop2387: :) eval: prototype(\&CORE::length) simcop2387: _ huh, I'm not sure I'd have expected that either -1 + length $n; # if you hate parens "named unary operators" are below + - . but above ==, &, etc "2. `length $n - 1` evals to `length ($n - 1)` which was surprising." ; Are you sure? I would think it's prototype would lock it to taking just one arg deparse: length $n - 1 > 5 integral: ( length( ( $n - 1 ) ) > 5 ); mmm parents gordonfish: the deparse above shows it er "parens" wth rindolf: it seems that with #2 you're in good company gordonfish: it should be a "named unary operator" in the perlop precedence table simcop2387: i guess deparse: sin 5 > 0.5 integral: Can't locate object method "object_2svref" via package "B::SPECIAL" at /home/ryan/perl5/perlbrew/perls/perlbot-blead-2018-06-10_16794/lib/5.28.0/B/Deparse.pm line 5418. deparse: sin $n - 1 > 0.5 integral: ( sin( ( $n - 1 ) ) > "0.5" ); gordonfish: that's not how prototypes work integral++ # WTF did that break for gordonfish: they affect commas simcop2387: optimiser compiles to a constant (guess) integral: ah could be also, that build is from 6-10? that's not good deparse: sub penis($) { }; penis 1, 2; xenu: sub penis { ( $) } ( penis(1), 2 ); deparse: sub penis($) { }; penis 1 + 2; xenu: sub penis { ( $) } penis(3); deparse: sub penis { }; penis 1, 2; xenu: sub penis { } penis( 1, 2 ); wait, why did old prototype syntax work? isn't perlbot enabling signatures? xenu: not in deparse sweval: no feature 'signatures'; sub len1(_) { length shift } sub len2($) { length shift } [ [len1 'foo' - 1], [len2 'foo' - 1], [length 'foo' - 1] ]; gordonfish: Argument "foo" isn't numeric in subtraction (-) at (IRC) line 1. Argument "foo" isn't numeric in subtraction (-) at (IRC) line 1. Argument "foo" isn't numeric in subtraction (-) at (IRC) line 1. [[2],[2],[2]] >wait er wait >sub penis { ( $) } wut xenu: likely something horribly broken with how i end up mangling the B::Deparse output to make it work the way it does. with the new eval server i don't need to do that since i can safely exec things differently but i haven't changed it yet simcop2387: length($n - 1) is usually not what i want and length($n)-1 is useful for substr like in for loops that's one reason that i try not to be in the habit of not using parens for most perl functions. it's easy enough to get bit by issues with commas even without thinking about cases like that yeah, but special casing just one operator would be a bad design decision xenu: agreed. just because it's surprising doesn't mean it's wrong simcop2387: yeah perl's probably unique in having two different precedence levels for function calls and the lexer can't tell them apart without extra info #perl Freenode All the good names are taken basheval: printf '[%s]' "$var" $'foo \x27bar\x27 baz' # This can be nicer than '\'' or '"'"' gordonfish: [][foo 'bar' baz] oops basheval: printf '[%s]' $'foo \x27bar\x27 baz' gordonfish: [foo 'bar' baz] Re: <thrig> well you can write '...' then fix up any inner ' to '\'' # Re: <huf> there's $'' at least it can do \' that's the entire point it also does \n so you know, you can't win Yeah I know about \n and \t, I forgot that \' was legal, as in a normal '...' that doesn't work. Good point, thanks. the tragedy is that you don't have a normal shell '' with switchable delimiters and so on instead we get this... the tragedy of darth delimiter the daft mst: bash already lets you use '' for one bit and "" for another :P Grinnz: ... yes? no need for a second -e I can do '...'"..."'...' true but multiple -es skim reads easier what do you mean, surely bash quoting rules are eminently readable and consistent with everything else! if you think bash is inconsistent, try using tcsh every time I try to work on my own perl shell thinger, I get hung up on parsing .. but maybe adding a few convenience functions to my repl would help as a stopgap Grinnz: give a man a fish and he'll be confused for a day. teach a man to fish and he'll bash his head against other people's scripts for the rest of his life so you're saying order the chicken(scheme) guestkato: your plan may not be cunning but it is not without guile guile? is that your scheme I hear it gets a good rep thrig: no need to accuse me of running a racket #perl Freenode I was an idiot CPAN Upload: XML-Grammar-Vered-0.0.11 by SHLOMIF https://metacpan.org/release/SHLOMIF/XML-Grammar-Vered-0.0.11 now with fewer xml libxml2 version mismatch tests and their failures. I was an idiot. Well to a large extent I still am. ;) rindolf: "I am an idiot" is still the easiest sort of bug to fix :D depends on how long it's been going on Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Idiot Party? :) mst: heh. mst++ CPAN Upload: XML-Grammar-Vered-0.0.12 by SHLOMIF https://metacpan.org/release/SHLOMIF/XML-Grammar-Vered-0.0.12 #perl Freenode Misplacing a website Lady_Aleena: I gave some motivation for using version control systems here: https://web.archive.org/web/20120205022506/http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2004/01/29/scm_overview.html rindolf, you had to use the way-back machine? Lady_Aleena: O’Reilly misplaced the onlamp.com site lately. rindolf, how the hell does one misplace an entire website? #perlcafe Freenode I accidentally misplaced a small city Chris62vw's Rule

The conversation about how someone shouldn't do something in an IRC channel is always at least twice as long as the text the accused person created in the first place.

Chris62vw Freenode #perl Meme "When I hear SASL" oh, SASL actually works here nice to not have to /nick and reauth when I hear SASL, I think LDAP and pain El_Che: when I hear SASL, I think of you… ;) LOL as long as it's other people's pain #perl Freenode Men being attracted to physically strong women wow! the chicks here are so beautiful and physically strong: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZF1RB5xiirFDb2nPhoh36A . I don't recall ever being so aroused. Link title(s): [ GYM GIRLS CLUB - YouTube ] rindolf: it's the gaslighting of society and it's fucking hilarious and sad at the same time men, deep down, prefer to have strong capable women that can actually guard the household and protect the kids while the man is off doing man things (like, going on hunting things for months on end, or laying siege to nations, or w/e) modern third wave feminism is this weird hijacking of the attempt to reset things to normal like, they started out well, I even agree with their ideals, but it just got fucked over and subverted to help the nation/state/corporation machine this men should be aroused by women that show physically healthy traits Diablo-D3: ah "oh, but if you like women like that, you're a closet homosexual" -- gaslighters "oh, if you like women like that, you hate women" -- gaslighters "oh, if you like that and not docile little women, you hate femininity" -- gaslighting from the ridiculous right and their trad obsession Diablo-D3: https://www.shlomifish.org/meta/FAQ/are_you_a_sexist__are_you_a_feminist.xhtml Link title(s): [ Shlomi Fish’s FAQ - Are you a sexist? Are you a Feminist? ] yeah, I've seen your shit :P but yeah, no, dude, you're fine women like that are somewhere on the healthy image scale maybe a little *too* healthy, but I don't judge Diablo-D3: heh. people need to be wellrounded they need to be in shape, and no, round isn't a shape badass fluttershy: https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Terminator/Liberation/ongoing-text.html#hannah-using-a-tank Link title(s): [ “Terminator: Liberation” - An Illustrated Screenplay for a Terminator parody - Ongoing Text - ] Diablo-D3: heh. nice pun Diablo-D3++ https://twitter.com/shlomif/status/1480050133014388736 Shlomi Fish (@shlomif) 17d4h ago: https://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/poetics.1.1.html - like Aristotle notes about Homer, the characters in my fics are confident, open, forgiving, competent, funny [I hope], greedy, generous, passionate, and sexy. https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/ Diablo-D3: https://github.com/shlomif/shlomif-tech-diary/blob/master/multiverse-cosmology-v0.4.x.asciidoc#user-content-about-sex Link title(s): [ shlomif-tech-diary/multiverse-cosmology-v0.4.x.asciidoc at master · shlomif/shlomif-tech-diary · ... ] rindolf: you write weird shit man :P Diablo-D3: I knowz Diablo-D3: https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=doing-hot-celebs--2021-edition Link title(s): [ Doing Hot Celebs - Fortune ] stop hitting on all the poly polymaths Diablo-D3: heh :D I'm just flirting Diablo-D3: can I publish this conversation? I think technically it's allowed since it's a public forum legally, at least Trashlord: true, but I don't want Diablo-D3 to get hurt Trashlord: https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=sharp-perl-jobs-EmWatson-Saladin-knights-Templar - I changed johndoemer's name Link title(s): [ Jobs, Emma Watson, Saladin & Knights Templar - Fortune ] Trashlord: hi, sup? I can't stop you from publishing, but I'm certainly not saying anything new entire books are written about the subject by better writers Diablo-D3: TL;DR ;] Diablo-D3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFrag8ll85w YouTube video linked by rindolf: Show Me the Money! Jerry Maguire 1 8) Movie CLIP (1996) HD - published by itsathwv Diablo-D3: here? yes? Diablo-D3: sup? Diablo-D3: re women - i think both sexes covet competence Trashlord: #gamedev 'aleyhum' me so i ran away Trashlord: also https://twitter.com/shlomif/status/1477951381248122881 Shlomi Fish (@shlomif) 26d8h ago: https://mlp.fandom.com/wiki/Discord used to insist that his pronouns are "it/its". Transilliness. #mylittlepony [05:39:39] <rindolf> Diablo-D3: re women - i think both sexes covet competence they do. guys want to surround themselves with competence but not more competent than themselves (else they have to vie for the same head of the alpha local maximum) women want to bang the alpha Diablo-D3: hi, i'm thinking hi thinking, I'm dad Diablo-D3: thing is: i want a seesaw battle-of-wits, like in https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Queen-Padme-Tales/Queen-Padme-Tales--The-Fifth-Sith.html#after-the-date . e.g. in TBBT, https://bigbangtheory.fandom.com/wiki/Penny is the leader, or on #perl it's mst, but they win arguments much less than 50% of the time. #perlcafe Freenode "Helping one person at a time" Grinnz: turns out #hexchat blew him off, he's relatively new to the linux ecosystem, and was just fucking frustrated I didn't manage to help him but he calmed down a bunch and was grateful for our not helping in the end understandable mst++ # https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=mishnah--saving-one-soul Link title(s): [ “They who saved one soul has saved the world Entire” - Fortune ] rindolf: one at a time is the only way. mst: well, there are also one-to-many web/etc. resources #perl Freenode Rindolf's craziness (from 23-November-2005) rindolf: you are seriously the craziest fucker I know and I know some crazy ass people tyler-: I am crazy. And proud of it. rindolf: you should be haha Ahh man tyler-: being crazy is hard work. I worked all my life to be crazy. Normal people aren't fun. tyler-: "Craziness is not an action. It's a process." heh rindolf: I see You need to tend to your insanity. tyler-: do you want to be crazy? rindolf: that's why I feed my leprechaun at least once a day. tyler-: I can teach you everything I know. #perlcafe Freenode Witches and Screwdrivers gordonfish: hi. norton [anti] virus blocked *.shlomifish.org completely :[[[ rindolf: they do that rindolf: my favourite was kaspersky unpacking zip files into /tmp/ but then dying utterly if the result was over 2Gb rindolf: I ended up setting up a once per minute cron job that killed them so everything except the zip bombs kept flowing email wise mst: heh. rindolf: I was $ISP *ops* rindolf: making it all continue to flow was my job rindolf: fixing things -properly- was then delegated to the relevant department ;) rindolf: I'd just duct tape the shit out of it and then hand it off and get back to my actual job ;) mst: i see. rindolf: I was the only non-manager with root on every unix box, enable on every router, and administrator on every windows system - if departments argued about whose problem something was, it would tend to land on my desk with a "just fix this" tag attached happily, at that point the opinions of people who -could- have fixed it but instead passed the buck were no longer considered interesting by upper management mst: i see. rindolf: this is what turned me into ... well, me ;) "It doesn't take a witch to fix this computer. All it takes is a Phillips Screwdriver." [ https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=shlomif-story-it-doesnt-take-a-witch-to-fix-this-computer ] only witches use phillips screwdrivers though rindolf: rewt: though a witch -holding- a screwdriver causes a lot of things to fix themselves rindolf: having a multitool with a screwdriver set has caused a lot of problems to cease just from me walking towards them haha mst: I have a CYBERKNIFE mst: heh. "Emma Watson played Hermione in the Harry Potter films, but she doesn’t need a wand to kick your ass." buu: I was carrying a Victorinox Cybertool at the time rindolf: it is ... unwise ... to come after me however, sleep now heh " setpos "$ which holding a screwdriver" doesn't turn up much by way of commands thrig: 'witch' ≠ 'which' Which witch had to itch like a bitch due to the stich for being a snitch while stayin' at the Ritz? gordonfish++ Which witch is which? I don't think we're in wichita anymore The one in the bin no witch in $PATH black cats could cross your path... cat is indeed in my path if dog is in the same path they either get locked in a mexican standoff or start chasing each other the cat invariably ends up some other trie #perl Freenode My mind has a mind of its own. i think the part of my brain responsible for leaving just one thing out of the washer but discovering this only once i've started the washer it must be exceptionally large possibly taking up most of the space in my skull huf: my mind has a mind of its own. ;] EvanCarroll: meow. sup? alright upgrades done through 5.18.3 now. not too many more versions to go HALLO RINDY AND MST simcop2387: u may be overdoing it w all the versions: http://shlomifishswiki.branchable.com/Never_Try_to_Please_Everyone/ Link title(s): [ Never Try to Please Everyone ] rindolf: he's doing it Because He Can rindolf: this motivation beats everything else ;) https://twitter.com/RadioFreeTom/status/1573898032952872960 Tom Nichols (@RadioFreeTom) 1d11h ago: "Because we can." ♫ we do what we must because we can ♫ mst: can ≠ should rindolf: if it's -fun-, 'can' is sufficient :D mst: well, hiking beside chasms was fun too… rindolf: 'should' and 'wise' are different things, certainly can is a prerequisite to should, and "want to" is sufficient for the rest #perl Freenode “It's behaving differently under MacOS” Is there a way to bypass the `realpath couldn't resolve "/usr/bin/foo"` check when I run (in bash): exec -a foo perl -E 'say $0' ? (i.e., don't bother *looking* for the interpreter; just run...) PapaChub: $^X ? When would I set that? perlbot: eval: [ $^X ] rindolf: ["$PERLS/blead-2022-05-28/bin/perl5.37.1"] # exec -a foo perl -E 'say $0' ARGH!! I see it's behaving differently under MacOS... >:-| PapaChub: mac o'sucks… ;] j/k It can be maddening, that's for sure... *sigh* "The difference between theory and practice is that in theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, while in practice, there is." 1 + 1 = 2.0073 ;] https://metacpan.org/pod/Acme::NewMath Link title(s): [ Acme::NewMath - Perl extension for escaping the humdrum mathematics that dorks like Pythagoras ga... ] do any of you use some kind of perl debugger interface in vim? tips? i use "perl -d"/etc. in konsole, but outside nvim/gvim. i also contributed to perl5db.pl https://metacpan.org/pod/Vim::Debug::Manual found this, trying it out Link title(s): [ Vim::Debug::Manual - Integrate the Perl debugger with Vim - metacpan.org ] https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/It-s-not-a-Fooware-It-s-an-Operating-System/ ;] Link title(s): [ It’s not a Fooware - It’s an Operating System - Shlomi Fish’s Homesite ] Guten Morgen / Bonjour / Доброе утро / Good morning. I see your Guten Morgen / Bonjour / Доброе утро / Good morning and raise you Dobré ráno / Hyvää huomenta choroba: Hyvää huomenta is Finnish, I know this already. In what language is Dobré ráno? It's Czech choroba: Ok, nice! i will add בוקר טוב [boqqer tov] in leshon haqodesh tetris letters ;] #perl Freenode Samba vs. SMB on MS Windows i just switched from arch to freebsd :P hlz: as a desktop OS? kind of. i'm planning on building a new computer in the near future for music production (windows). so i plan on using this current desktop as a file server for data storage, torrenting, etc. will keep a monitor connected to it so it wont be headless; this way i'll still have a *nix computer to play with. freebsd has built-in zfs which meets my needs.... more stable, not rolling release like arch so i wont have to update packges everyday. just something stable and fun to use on the side :P rindolf hlz: ah... hlz: [[5. An interesting talk happened a bit before the panel. The man who set to me had an "Something Insurance" on his tag. I wondered what an insurance company did with Linux and asked him. He said: "a file server". That's right an _SMB_ file server. Why not Windows? Windows 2000 Professional allows only 10 connections, so they setup an extra Linux server. This allows thousands of simultaenous connections, and at a much greater speed. They have quite a lot of scanned images which open almost instanteously in Linux. Thus, instead of buying Windows 2000 Server, they got a Linux server at the cost of the hardware, with very low TCO. (it's stable and you can block its IP completely on the firewall]] -- me at https://web.archive.org/web/20041221161703/https://mirror.hamakor.org.il/archives/linux-il/04-2003/1357.html Link title(s): [ Linux-IL: My impressions from the event [was Re: The tiger didn't know what hit him...] ] holy wall rindolf: hahah same experience here, samba is soooo much faster than any native SMB fileserver night and day really especially with >1 user :D it also always amuses me that SMB filesharing is just a relic from LanManager days buZz: heh. +1 rindolf: and toDAY we still use lanmanager relics! if you have a LDAP setup for WPA Enterprise it will require NTLM(!!!!!!!) encrypted passwords in your ldap aka ~2 seconds to bruteforce on a atom LOL the other AD stuff I've seen for LDAP involved cleartext passwords getting passed around so I was like uh no passwords in LDAP thrig: ldap on linux can use SSL just fine but you'r talking about ldap on windos? havent touched that in ages SSL is very much unrelated to janky password handling in LDAP thrig: the bind operation usually requires you to send the cleartext password to the server, yes. the password should be hashed in the LDAP database, though. this is really par for the course for most protocols, e.g., IMAP, SMTP "wow this is shitty" and I kept the passwords in kerberos hlz: i like non-purely-rolling-OSes too: fedora, deb testing thrig: yeah kerberos is fix for it, but such a drag to setup rindolf: i've only used arch. it's the linux i started with. befor that i installed linux mint once i think lol :D i'm still just more of a hobbyist to be honest. aside from all the nice open source software and useful command line programs; i also just really like being in a tiling window manager and not having to move applications around on the screen all the time :> hlz: https://www.shlomifish.org/prog-evolution/shlomif-at-cortext.html Link title(s): [ Shlomi Fish at Cortext: HTML, UNIX and Perl - oh my! - Shlomi Fish’s Homesite ] what's this? this is you? hlz: yes haha nice. i'm reading i definitely would like to learn more about the command line, shell scripting, and perl. perlbot: faq rindolf: The #perl FAQ is at http://perl-begin.org/FAQs/freenode-perl/ . Make sure you skim over it before asking questions. The Perl FAQ is http://faq.perl.org/ . #perl Freenode Modern Websites’ Style Is there a good RPA / Web Automation tool that works with Perl? I have had a long standing project to create a deliberative softbot to automate lots of tasks, and now with LLMs it's possible for it to read and act on the information it will scrape. aindilis: something like Playwright might be what you want, https://metacpan.org/pod/Playwright Link title(s): [ Playwright - Perl client for Playwright - metacpan.org ] simcop2387: great, ty! I need a name for a module. I've written a thing to do simple command/response or pub/sub over a local probably-unix socket... Because I couldn't find one and was annoyed at that fact LeoNerd: so a very simple RPC type mechanism? IO::Async::RemoteFunction? though that probably isn't it exactly or ::ObjectRemote just to irk mst :) Mmm well it's not based on IO::Async for a start ;) clutches perls! LeoNerd: what? Future::IO LeoNerd: I once wrote a interprocess communication system for Perl. is that what you're looking for? No k googles playwright vs selenium and does not get any smarter jelly: is selenium still alive? yes awesome, yeah I don't know node very well aindilis: heh, 'people' assume irc, perl, xml, are dead too jelly: they're nearly the same but Playwright is a bit better for working with multiple types of browsers and languages is my understanding https://www.shlomifish.org/meta/FAQ/#computing Link title(s): [ Shlomi Fish’s Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) List - Shlomi Fish’s Homesite ] rindolf: I neither assumed it was dead or alive If its major version number hasn't changed in a while then obviously it's dead If its website hasn't been rewritten with more javascript and more alpha-blended rounded corners, then obviously it's dead ah, I will tell the AI tha rule are we back to round corners again? Uh, wait.. what year is it? Oh, no.. sorry, no corners at all. No edges either. All your buttons must be flat plain black text on the exact same white background as the real background so users can't see where the edges of the button are That's how you can tell it's "modern" now Sorry, did I say black on white? I meant grey on a slightly different grey LeoNerd: heh It's like The Net - you have to click a little pi symbol in the corner to get the *real* control panel ... "I'm in" LeoNerd: yea i fscking hate that grey on grey low contrast BS that's been going everywhere fuzzix: "I know this. It's a unix system!" You Nicks? Nope, never heard of him github++ added underlines to hyperlinks github-- # should never have removed them in the goddamn first place LeoNerd: https://perl.plover.com/yak/12views/samples/notes.html#sl-9 - 'new versions' Link title(s): [ Twelve Views of Mark Jason Dominus ] #perl Freenode #perl : Dealing with bugs CPAN Upload: IO-Socket-IP-0.43 by PEVANS https://metacpan.org/release/PEVANS/IO-Socket-IP-0.43 CPAN Upload: Catalyst-View-EmbeddedPerl-PerRequest-0.001012 by JJNAPIORK https://metacpan.org/release/JJNAPIORK/Catalyst-View-EmbeddedPerl-PerRequest-0.001012 CPAN Upload: MARC-Convert-Wikidata-Object-0.09 by SKIM https://metacpan.org/release/SKIM/MARC-Convert-Wikidata-Object-0.09 thrig: Thanks loking Also: Looking Aha. Nice! Loki next-generation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loki Link title(s): [ Loki - Wikipedia ] CPAN Upload: XS-Parse-Keyword-0.47 by PEVANS https://metacpan.org/release/PEVANS/XS-Parse-Keyword-0.47 clearing a lot of little bugs today CPAN Upload: Dist-Zilla-PluginBundle-Author-AJNN-0.08 by AJNN https://metacpan.org/release/AJNN/Dist-Zilla-PluginBundle-Author-AJNN-0.08 LeoNerd: "i like big bugs, and I cannot lie" ;] #perl Freenode #perl : Folklore Numerology rpn and stack based languages are usually the forth mistake a programmer makes heh https://www.martinfowler.com/bliki/TwoHardThings.html Link title(s): [ Two Hard Things ] ...and off-by-one errors. kuzdra: i have zero-tolerance for those ;) rindolf: that's what one says (-: kuzdra: that makes two of us hahaha! off we go! is not a number. He is a free nickname rindolf: we take no Prisoner here... #perl Freenode