buu: do you have a working manual of BL? s/working/up-to-date/ It's kind of sort of up to date he means NO I've got some docs! buu: do you have a functional spec? An architecture document? An interface whitepaper? A developer's guide? A user manual? A "The BL-Book" and "BL - The Program"? rindolf: no, no, no no and no #perl Freenode Discussing the merits of documenting one's pet languages on sleeper: why are people obsessed with one-liners? It takes 3 lines - OMG what a disaster! rindolf: newline prices went up again Botje: I buy my newlines in the black market Botje: again? drat. reports rindolf to the newline police Botje: I know about an... (underground) operation going on to pirate newlines. Botje: I bribed a few cops in the newline police, but nice try. Botje: Some crazy guys are trying to free newlines from patents! They want to rid the market! gets called up to serve in the newline jury I think we need to start a campaign to lift all restrictions off newlines. rindolf: La Resistance lives on!\n I already stockpiled millions of newlines Botje: We can have the one-liners destroyed by sundown Not destroyed, but... TURNED INTO TWO-LINERS! Mwuhahaha! #perl Freenode The Cost of Newlines Stevie[FP] with a plunger. looks for the verb in that sentence i think you're missing a verb I think he's missing a brain. unless Stevie[FP] is a verb i don't know Stevie[FP]: v. see Stevie[FP] I am not a verb! you've been verbatized Stevie[FP]'s Chris62vw verbalized? Stevie[FP]: verbalized is a different thing. Stevie[FP]: it comes from "verbal". Verbified. Verbiated. stefan: verbificated. verbed. Verberated. Stevie[FP]: verberation is overrated. #perl Freenode Verbing the Verb i hate xml..... <response to="BarnacleBob">indeed</response> mcrawfor: :-) mcrawfor++ # Nice joke ehm. ouch. rindolf: no! <postincrement comment="Nice joke">mcrawfor</postincrement> Botje: LOL. <postincrement comment="As you wish">Botje</postincrement> #perl Freenode Human XML fart say "oops" __you: heh kick rindolf (rindolf, you're now being kicked by 435 people) __you need to go outside. __you: Who owns you? go outside are pwned by dazjorz is now known as we are having a useless off-topic conversation right now we: hahah we is now known as __you decide this channel is now useless and decide to leave is now known as we are not amused and I are together simcop2387 is now known as _I_ need to tell __you something listen is now known as we need help think we are getting a bit sick of the shenanigans I'm so making a fortune out of it. want to be on bash.org #perl Freenode /me (or I, you or we) is finding it amusing Oh! I fixed it :D Yay :D spyro_boy: congrats! Thanks for your help, everyone. :) spyro_boy: now you should translate this script to O'Caml, Haskell, Perl 6. rindolf, huh? spyro_boy: Smalltalk, C, C++, Visual Basic... rindolf, translate to what? spyro_boy: to all these programming languages. haha rindolf, yeah. Because a script in perl is Not Enough<tm>. spyro_boy: but see the Great Computer Language Shootout. rindolf, I tried learning C,C++, and Java, but I couldn't catch on. #perl Freenode Mulit-linguality wankit Perl 6, unlike most people, is able to breathe in the vacuum of space. In fact, anything else would damage its respiratory system. Because of this, whenever it's visiting Earth, it wears a respirator, which resembles a kickass beard. Heh heh. Are all of buubot's wankit factoids about Perl 6? He should have some about Chuck Norris, too. fictional factoids about a partially designed, partially implemented, partially wanted language. :) merlyn: yeah. Heh - those are all Chuck Norris quotes with s/Chuck/P6/ rindolf: It's written in Chuck Norris, right Chuck Norris writes code in Perl 6. Before Larry's done. And it works. merlyn: Chuck Norris wrote Perl 6 in a day but then destroyed all evidence with his bare hands, so no one will know his secrets. #perl Freenode Discussing the merits of documenting one's pet languages on LeoNerd: I need to get a life. They can be quite useful, but they do have a crazy amount of dependencies.. And sometimes they can be a bit unstable - I think they're still beta-testing #perl Freenode Is a Life Ready for Prime Time Daveman: i use a ZED PEE EM to power my computer, its the ultimate YOU PEE ES throws an Elisabeth at Simcop Me catches the Elisabeth in mid-air. with an s, excellent choice :o Interception! Daveman: when my friend and I played Frisbee, we had an intra-tree move. pirates Elisabeth and seeds a torrent Which was unintended. Elisabeth: are you here? HAHAHAHHA Substack++ wins at life. An Elisabeth for all! And all for an Elisabeth. #perl Freenode #perl for Elisabeth what is a good book for getting up to speed with perl? learning perl! intermediate perl! the camel is the _only book_ :-P bats nachos silly :-( Alexi5: there's also Beginning Perl, which is available online. saw that coming You should learn Perl from "Learning Perl in 24 minutes Unleashed!" rindolf: ``Learning perl in 24 minutes Unleashed, in a nutshell for dummies'' is the one i have f00li5h: that's even better. #perl Freenode Books for Learning Perl Are you using Firefox? yeah... Interesting... Don't know. use a real browser... you know... like IE! runs IE 3 > * IE 2 > * gopher! firefox can actually do gopher URLs GNU info! feh. #perl Freenode Vintage Hypertext ofer0: what's up? rindolf, nothing much. what's with you? ofer0: I restored my fonts to my nouveau-enabled X server. What is nouveau? jagerman, "new" in french ? Yes, I know it's a word, but what is the nouveau rindolf is talking about? I have no idea. rindolf ? jagerman, ofer0: it's the free-as-in-speech Nvidia drivers. jagerman++ (Yes i know its a word). free as in freedom free as in richard stallman? free as in free Microsoft Windows Vista CDs lol vista-- "What do you mean? Windows XP isn't free?" -- My neighbour. ofer0: sounds familiar (when telling him that I can't format his hard-drive and re-install XP because he doesn't own a license) #perl Freenode Free as in what? This reminds me of a fun discussion I had with my co-worker. He had a Firefox window open with an ActiveState page and I read "Perl, PHP, Python, Tcl, XSLT". So he said: "Heresy! C is the only language." So I thought for a moment and said "Intercal is the only language." lol And then "Real men write in Intercal." "COME FROM" anyone? #perl Freenode The Only Programming Language mortal5: you need to print the header. mortal5: print header() rindolf, ...I absolutely love it when my textbook leads me wrong.. mortal5: what is your textbook? "web wizards guide to perl and cgi" lol only the finest for the students at my university Hahaha That's awesome. Is this what we're teacing these days? Oh my. Blows the mind, doesn't it cfedde! somian: it does. I suppose that I'm commenting out of context. but why the mix and match. What mind? yours, with this .48 sends in CSI las vegas to clean up mortal5: what is your university? rindolf, I'm too ashamed to tell :p mortal5: heh. mortal5: is it bad? rindolf, no not really, we have a fairly well known cs dept Just so long as it isn't SUNY@BUFFALO it's just the teacher i'm using, she's a total flake #perl Freenode Misleading Textbooks about Perl rating: Net-DNS-Check rated 4 stars by Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason Oooh! avar has rated a module. avar! WHAT ARE YOU DOING rating CPAN modules!?! Do you really think you are QUALIFIED to be doing that!?! ;-P dongs somian^{} laughs somian^{}: I'M A PROFESSIONAL PERL PROGRAMMER I know PERL But can u mAke teh weB with teh PERL!? avar: I know DONGS Earle_Martin: SHOW ME Earle_Martin: Don't you mean DONG foo? has a silly grin on his face as he decends the stairs to make some fresh coffee somian^{}: I maek teh web really well with PERL /DCC MATRIX avar Earle_Martin: IT'S SO LARGE AND HARD! avar: You think that's milk you're drinking? heh] I was wondering why it was so delcicious "I can't belive it's not jizz" Take the red pill blue! I know PERL: Programmer's Elite Robotic Language goes back to work I wonder what would happen if Neo was colorblind and took the wrong pill. 10 DO ROBOT DANCE 20 GOTO 10 which doesn't involving discussing dongs in great detail, unfortunately avar: the real world sucks #perl Freenode Perl and Dongs on Freenode's #perl mauke: so how does that "translate" into eng "eng"? I spe eng goo mauke: I spe eng wel I spe goo eng just a short question. besides personal preference is there any difference if you use if(! or unless(? sts: no. sts: they do the same thing. sts: pfft. Real Men(tm) use unless(!...) Botje: heh. lol unless(! makes sense. thanks Botje, i'll rather use this one. =D For me it's a readability thing - I express what seems more likely Botje: File::HomeDir used to have a triple or quadruple negative in one of its test files. unless(! $str !~ /(?!foo)/) Botje: heh whoa unless (!) makes no sense to me at all of course not. Botje: wow! it's still cool to confuse people with :] Heh.. Should just use !!! in there anywa y:) it's 7 characters too many some people don't understand double negatives I don't want no complaints! xand: you mean don't not understnad? We don't know nobody who don't want no double-negatives Botje: what does (?!foo) do? lol Botje: don't not misunderstand Botje: that always executes the block there's an argument that can be successfully made that "I don't want no complaints" doesn't necessarily work logically xand: oh, I don't not think I didn't not misunderstand you. mauke: I know. it just looks cool. and you want !($str !~ /.../) don't you?# so it might actually mean what people think they're meaning #perl Freenode N-uple negative on Freenode's #perl LINUX < WINDOWS XP Yaakov: Linux ">" x Inf Windows XP Yaakov: DOS > Linux Yaakov: CTSS > Linux Yaakov: TOPS-10 > Linux Multics > Linux Multics > * I think I'll stop. I think I'll /clear CP/M > * Kobaz: heh! Kobaz++ Heh. CP/M was teh sexy. How much more of an OS do you really need? I still have my Apple II sitting in the corner. #perl Freenode My Operating System is Better than Yours Mahmoud: what's up? rindolf, writing a CMS from scratch with perl.. really cool, making my own template engine Mahmoud: why??? Mahmoud: use TT2. Or whatever. rindolf, i dislike other CMS engines.. they are bloated and i don't trust them Mahmoud: TT2 is pure perl. looks for TT2 Mahmoud: a CMS doesn't stay simple forever. Mahmoud: and a CMS != Templating system. rindolf, the template engine is quite simple, it's similar to how SimpleMachines forum does its templates rindolf, just an external file with print 'foo'; commands Mahmoud, TT2 is very powerful Mahmoud, there are more templating systems, why not use any ofo the existing ones? Mahmoud: please don't re-invent square wheels. heh.. oval! likes hexagonal wheels very small octagon wheels aren't too bad. amnesiac: triangular wheels are the best! i like star shaped wheels :/ #perl Freenode On the Many Types of Wheels LeoNerd: That was one of the first blobs of Java I wrote, it's allowed to be even more verbose and convoluted than Java normally is. ;P ferret: link? /las Cat.java ferret: an implementation of the UNIX "cat" program in Java?? Actually, specifically the GNU cat program, and only a subset thereof. ferret: oh. ferret: how many lines did it take? heads off to #codegolf and tries to convince them to allow java submissions rindolf: It's mostly argument parser. ferret: I once implemented a parser for a subset of the Bourne Shell args, in really hideous ANSI C. f00li5h: good luck. f00li5h: Java Golf... yeah, for sure! Java Golf would be longer than a non-Golfed Perl program. rindolf: this is true f00li5h: COBOL Golf! #perl Freenode The Pyramid of Code Golf "struggling intern" at 129.162.1.31 pasted "Here it is.." (220 lines, 5.7K) at http://sial.org/pbot/25279 woohoo there it goes... strugglingintern: oh my god! strugglingintern: this code looks really bad. heh... strugglingintern: if ($records eq 0 ) - don't you want ($records == 0)? strugglingintern: do you have unit tests? strugglingintern: and you should factor it better. strugglingintern: and possibly use Template Toolkit or something. strugglingintern: and you may have some HTML-injection (or XSS) problems. rindolf: and probably SQL injection problems. Ani-_: indeed! :-/ strugglingintern: really, ask them to review that code when they get back. alright I appreciate it anyway strugglingintern: how long have you been programming perl? hah, about 3 months This isn't all my code ;) I'll look into it Thanks guys (and gals). strugglingintern: you're welcome. not my choice ;) it's my 3rd week here :) Amazing how much more experienced programmers can tell a code is bad from a quick glance. It's a bit scary. nothing amazing about it. It's called skill. :) yeh even I can tell it by a look It's not scary or amazing at all. It is called experience! rindolf: what do you find scary? rindolf: that experienced programmers can tell it? Or the code itself? I would disagree on the first one but agree on the later! :) Ani-_: no, that I'm so experienced. Ani-_: I hope I don't sound out as a snob. narcissism is fun I should get a life. Get a girlfriend, go to movies. Instead all I do is write Perl. And chat about writing Perl. a life, tried that, didn't mix with me #perl Freenode Scary Perl Expertise Let me wikipedia it. so now wikipedia is a verb? f00li5h: it's gonna enter the OED. f00li5h: in English every verb can be nounified and every noun can be verbed. f00li5h: google is now a verb too. rindolf: q{ just one second and i'll "computer" it up for you"} f00li5h: LOL. f00li5h++ f00li5hes jql I'm rindolfed finds it odd that irssi hilighted half of that word f00li5h: it's much harder to do it in Hebrew. computer is from the verb compute already jql: there's computerise though. jql: but to computer something is different than computing it COMPUTIFY! jql: I once thought that the study of Objectivity is Objectivism. "configurated" you shouldn't noun up a verb that's been nouned already And the study of Objectivism is Objectivistalism. heh And that study of that is Objectvisitalistalism. And to infinity it's Objectivist-elementalism! eval: object .((ism)x100) f00li5h: objectismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismism ismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismism ismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismismi With apologies to the 4 people who ever spoke Latin correctly. I can't help but read that as smi smi smi me too jql: reminds me of Peter Pan. #perl Freenode (Human) Language Fun on Freenode's #perl I use nedit, the only app with a quadruple-click feature wtf is quadruple-click??? %-/ double-click selects a word, triple-click selects a line, quadruple-click select the whole document. heh :) quintuple-click selects the whole harddisk hexuple-click selects the entire Intranet. And septapable-click selects the entire Internet How many for the multiverse? people, who uses what editor? octaple click selects the known universe and nonaple the rest too. arw: how long does it takes these clicks to run? I think it's super-exponential complexity. rindolf: no matter, the universe is finite :) rindolf: only problem is, the information about your clicking will never reach the entire universe as it expands ;) #perl Freenode How many clicks must a one man do, before he selects what he wants? huzzahs. His Perl books just arrived. reflexive, Which? apeiron: IP and PBP. A couple others are still in transit. reflexive, Nice. :) :) reflexive: what is IP? Intermediate Perl. reflexive: oh, OK. Intellectual Perl. Internet Perl. Invasive Perl Idiot Perl Interactive Perl. I, Perl. Implementing Pies mmm, pie Improbably Perl Ignoble Perl Probably Inverted kojiro: :-) Improper Perl Insidious Perl? ALL PERL IS IMPROPER API? In Soviet Russia all improper is Perl. APII. impudent perl no, you never count words like "is" Incoherent Perl ALL PERL IS INCOHERENT So true. #perl Freenode The Meaning of "I". which is that ACME:: filter that obfusctaes all your source into whitespace? :) Acme::Bleach dkr: as preaction said it is Acme::Bleach. moderation -1 Redundant smirks get out you slashdotter jk I got moderated overrated yesterday. I felt so loved GumbyGumby: how often do you post to /.? dkr: do it to system() a ssh command. Is doing that often. GumbyBRAIN: how often do you post dkr to Slashdot? do it to list. #perl Freenode Got the Slashdot? y'all should spell it in uppercase it being an acronym and all Yes, but we're *lazy*! *so* noticed ;) WebDragon: people that use CamelCase have no right to criticize about capitalization. :) dkr: I hate underscores contemplates a source code filter that does lets you use spaces in var names by switch them to underscores at compile time black magic dkr: source filters are evil. dkr: in a bad way. dkr: hacking the compiler is much more fun, and evil in a useful way :) WebDragon: recommended perl style is $var_name WebDragon: it's also more readable than $varName or $VarName WebDragon: I'd recommend trying it for at least a month WebDragon: also note that it'll make life easier because you'll be consistent with the rest of perl code mst: I was thinking more along the lines of filenames and irc nicknames than perl variables WebDragon: ah. fair enough :) doesn't use camelcase for perlvars WebDragon: then I shall cease complaining :) ${"Insert a descriptive essay about the variable here"} rofl avar: that won't work with 'use strict 'refs'' avar: I've seen things like that in RL and had recurring nightmares about them when I saw similar and sometimes worse things on thedailywtf.com rindolf: ${main::}{"Insert a descriptive essay about the variable here"} would :) rindolf: or you could just use %_ :) my boss still occasionally uses vars like $x. still trying to beat that behavior out of him only uses x|y|z for cartesian coordinate math which, since I hardly ever do any of that, means the obvious #perl Freenode What's in a variable name? watched the Fountain pretty cool' yep what? you think The Fountain was cool? it was pretty artsy. I don't understand the necessity of repeating that same scene 50k times, though. then you didn't get the movie sili: if you repeat a scene 50k times, then the movie will have less entropy and will compress better. #perl Freenode Watched the fountain on Freenode's #perlcafe high-rez, but I don't know enough to help you because I am a newbie to perl programming and although I am in deep luv with perl and planning on marrying perl, I still have a lot to learn. convivial: you can only marry Perl if polygamy is legal where you live. convivial: because Perl and I are already married. :-D why is that? i'm single :) convivial: but Perl isn't. oh crap ! all the good languages are already married :( convivial: COBOL is still single. convivial: but I heard she's a total bitch. ewwwwwwwwwwww, so is JCL and no one is knocking down either of their doors rindolf, janet reno is single! convivial: what kind of programming language is "Janet Reno"? :) she is a person convivial: I'm not interested in people, I'm only interested in programming languages. rindolf: you should try Ada shaldannon: Ada 95? yeah the syntax of Pascal, the power of Basic and the friendliness of Java #perl Freenode Commiting yourself to a programming language on Freenode's #perl. beats iank over the head with an encyclopedia shaldannon: all volumes of an encyclopedia? rindolf: ha rindolf: every last one of 'em shaldannon: or perhaps a printout of the Wikipedia? rindolf: the whole bookcase shaldannon: which Encyclopedia? rindolf: naw, just get the DVD :) rindolf: I couldn't lift that rindolf: Britanica You could lift the DVD! shaldannon: Start. Working. Out. dwu: oh? shaldannon: Dude, being able to lift the Britannica is hot. -> the internet :-} Seriously. "I can hold the accepted knowledge of a percentage of the human race in my arms!" "Oh, god, that is so sexy." hahahaha Seriously. Smart is hot. Smart and funny... well. is hillarious ;) Uhm. kay. If you start reading the wikipedia lexicographically, will you ever finish at the rate articles are added there? rindolf: yes (citation needed) ha lol @ tarrybone tarrybone++ This reminds me of James Bond 1, where the girl there read an encyclopedia, instead of going to school. Does anyone near Philadelphia want to come to my house and take away my 1920 Britannica? rindolf: hey...when I was in elementary school, I used to read the World Book encyclopedia instead of doing my homework #perl Freenode Commiting yourself to a programming language on Freenode's #perl. anyone envy me? i'm refactoring production code that uses the fact that "" is defined, as a hash key. if (ref $ref->{""} ne "ARRAY") { $ref->{""} = [$ref->{""},$_]; } else { $ref->{""} = [@{$ref->{""}},$_]; } :( hey, that looks like fun. Has the author been lynched yet? would have used "\0" :-P the best of it all, is that it's an XML parser $ref->{""} = [ref $ref->{""} eq "ARRAY" ? @{$ref->{""}} : $ref->{""}, $_]; # fixed dwave: does this XML parser makes use of an existing XML parser from CPAN? dwave: or does it do everything from scratch? rindolf: everything from scratch :) dwave: nice! i'm trying to get rid of it dwave: re-inventing square wheels. there's a home made unicode lib too ! dwave: ouch! nice Brilliant! dwave: I suggest a dailywtf.com submission dwave: yeah, I second shaldannon #perl Freenode Production WTF Code on #perl rindolf: I command you both, to uninstall it, and install SuSE10.2 =P "versions" are so annoying. "I use Linux 10.2!" jagerman: I had a friend who insisted the answer to the question "What version of the kernel are you running?" was "gnome". eval: $POE::Kernel::VERSION jagerman: 1.2173 \o/ heh, a friend of mine only remembers me running ximian a few years ago and he keeps on asking me, "why don't you run ximian again?" where ximian == OS for him. jagerman: could be worse lingo-wise, in tech-support many folks asking on Q about 'THEIR internet' isn't working, or 'does it have internet installed?', I .....like.... sir.... when did you manage to buy the internet in whole? ....... ahhhh... the internet is not a socket you plug in any of the ports sir #perl Freenode Versions of Software "We're doing XP [= Extreme Programming] here, so you need to know Ruby, you need to know Design Patterns and you need to know Refactoring." XP may have become a religion. I Refactored yesterday! ew73: using which refactoring pattern? Leviticus 13:22 well you will keep refactoring until you get it right! extracts the ew73 method. ew73: this is one of my favourite refactoring patterns. idly looks up said passage, just to see if it's any good. What do you have to know to claim you know refactoring? How to click buttons in the right Eclipse menu? integral: the code is in Ruby. Ruby is too cool to be in Eclipse? integral: One time, I moved all this stuff to another subroutine! Lev. 13:22. And if it spread, he shall judge him to have the leprosy: integral: no, but you cannot refactor Ruby code automatically using Eclipse. One time I wrote all this code, but when I was about to go home I found I'd left my brain at home! LOLZ ew73: good butter advert in that #perl Freenode Extreme Programming as a Religion Hi all. LeoNerd: here? rindolf: Maybe LeoNerd: "be here or be not here - there is no maybe" :) LeoNerd: a.k.a the law of the exclusion of the middle. I think Yoda phrased that one best. #perl Freenode To be here or not to be here on Freenode's #perl thats just...mental perlmonkey2: still here? rindolf: hi perlmonkey2: hi. phew perlmonkey2: now we have two Perl monkeys. hah good stuff You can never have too many. To produce good stuff like Shakespeare's works, we need an infinite number of monkeys we're starting a monkey clan PeaceNLove: heh. PeaceNLove: and to write like a monkey we need a million Shakespeares. perlmonkey, reproduce and multiply, God be with you PeaceNLove: You can, of course, do anything with an infinite number of perl monkeys. PeaceNLove: Actually a million monkeys on a million typewriters would most probably have not created Hamlet if they started at the beginning of the Universe. perlmonkey2, that's fine, the Universe has not ended yet, they have time #perl Freenode Monkey Business at Freenode's #perl sarnold: you go to OGI? rindolf: no; but my boss and a co-worker are professors there, and other co-workers earned degrees there.. sarnold: OK. sarnold, have you got one of those pesky things? muli: just Bachelor of Arts .. no Masters or Ph.D... sarnold: B.Sc or B.A.? rindolf, Bachelor of Arts is B.A. muli: I know. But I was just checking. rindolf: ah, you're right, B.Sc.. I chickened out on the language requirements :) muli: see?? LOL. rindolf, sometimes, two bugs cancel each other. muli: wisely spoken. But mine wasn't a bug - it was a sanity check. #perl Freenode Not a bug Hmmm... xchat-perl is gone. OH NOES! ## what's that for then? Who you're gonna call? Bug-busters!! rindolf: never existed, unless you are using an rpm based system Khisanth: I am. I AINT AFRAID OF NO BUG! f00li5h: heh. when there's something wierd and in your code base, who you gonna call? f00li5h: The police? railbait: BUG BUSTERS! we test it with science then blow it up ... or is that someone else #perl Freenode Who you're gonna call? How do I look up @- in the perldocs? Hazard: perldoc perlvar rindolf: Thanks. perldoc rindolf I don't know what I'd do without IRC. Daveman: I am not a pragma! I'm a free man! I couldn't even google that. use Daveman (qw(silliness)); sends rindolf back to the village jetscreamer: is it a Perlisoner village where everyone becomes a pragma? and lots of perlBalloons gumbybrain, how do i make teh web wit shlomi!? jetscreamer: Perloons. jetscreamer: Perlunatics. Perlarks. perlaugh #perl Freenode Tribute to the Prisoner Technically, my first language was Turbo Pascal, but I started over with Perl 10 years later (not having programmed in the meantime). I'm obviously damaged goods. ubajas: heh, I read that as "I started with (perl 10) (years later)" instead of "I started with perl (10 years later)" :) Perl 10! Perl for the Fourth Millenium. I thought Perl 6 was supposed to be timeless iank: Maybe I should have added a comma. :-] Perl ∞ perl6 has existed since the beginning of time, or at least it will have existed since then once $Larry finds a time machine. iank: i'm sorry but larry is the prophet i am the messanger! i will be the one to take it back! WHAT. iank: its MY TIME MACHINE! smacks simcop2387 around iank: So it'll be like that Star Trek episode, where they say that the development of computers are caused by time travel from the future? Except that they were too stupid (like most Voyager writers) to get their facts right, and thought computers started in the 70s #perl Freenode The Messiah of Perl with strict it say me this: Global symbol "$lorem" requires explicit package name at split.pl line 3. milardovich: use "my $lorem = " milardovich: my is your friend. pun not intended. my is my friend. Preferably with a real value after "= " ^.^ dwu: he already has that. that works with my rindolf thaks you!!! milardovich: you're welcome. :) I wish I had a rindolf too. :-\ people here are "nicer" than on #php :P ubajas: I'm mass-produced at Chines sweat-shops. hehe ubajas: they sell me for 30 bucks a piece. milardovich: I've heard some horrible stories about ##php. perl rulz x) milardovich: what brings you to Perl? rindolf: #php apparantly simcop2387: heh. simcop2387++ #perl Freenode One rindolf Each on Freenode's #perl cl1: what do you do at work? i write code :D cl1: naturally. cl1: to do what? right now at this contract, i'm working with .net, c#, asp.net and pl/sql cl1: sounds enterprisey. please don't turn enterprise into a verb. BinGOs: enterprisey is an adjective, not a verb. Enterprizationaliseation? okay. lol @ enterprisey GumbyBRAIN: BinGOs me! i tend to be good, it doesn't want me to buy an island utopia (you'll get used to bother me. But it is a noun and no more. mmmkay. BinGOs: Actually, it's also an adjective. Even without "y". I HATE YOU ALL. grin CRITIQUE IS DEFINITELY A FUCKING NOUN. It's also a verb. NO IT ISN'T BinGOs: i shall critique your use of critique JUST BECAUSE SOME DAMNED YANKEE SCUM DECIDE IT IS, DOES NOT MAKE IT SO. It's been used since the 18th century. BinGOs: dwued! I refer you to my earlier hate. I refer you to your fail. not earlier than 18th century I really shouldn't. It's mean. But I will. Because I'm mean. icke: Hence "since". 'criticises'. My fail-gun appears to firing backwards. Damn thing. Your fail gun is... failing? #perl Freenode Are you being verbed on Freenode's #perl is pop3 module avaliable only in perl 5? are you saying you use something other than 5? perl 4 didn't even have modules heh shishirm1: do you want to use it with Perl 4? oh ok sorry i am comlete nooob!! so i am just asking you guys nope is perl 5 a standard now? yes ok great... :) shishirm1: Perl 4 is unmaintained, unloved, deprecated, not recommended, and dead - D. E. D. - DEAD! perl 4 is an EXPERL! all statements that perl4 is a going concern are thus inoperative. #perl Freenode How much Perl do you need at Freenode's #perl Hrm. More infernal questions, mainly because I am trying to make my perl prettier and contain less nasty if's. I have $foo and $bar which are obtained from split(/ /, 'kitten loving'). But I don't want undef if the split fails, I'd rather '' for $bar or both. What's the nicest way to do that? ($foo, $bar) = map { $_ // "" } split / /, $str; # 5.10 version :) Noo 5.10! :) ($foo, $bar) = map { defined $_ ? $_ : "" } split / /, $str; # probably some other shorter ways too edeca: [bad idea] you can also try using the conditional->inheritance refactoring. :-) pours boiling coffee on rindolf Khisanth: I hate coffee, but I guess I deserved it. That was a joke, of course. you weren't really supposed to like having boiling anything poured on you but I guess you are into the kinkier stuff #perl Freenode Conditional-to-Inheritance Refactoring on Freenode's #perl rbastic: QBasic was the sh*t! rbastic: well, not really. rindolf: yup, that language is responsible for me having gotten into programming to begin with. 8 yrs old and writing qbasic scripts with QBasic for Dummies by my side rbastic: I started when I was 10. rbastic: I know some people who started much later. Late bloomer .. didn't start till I was 15. heh, I started at 14... I could not have a computer before that rbastic: but I know a girl who started programming when she was 6. Or was it 8? rindolf, CAN HAS PHONE NUMBER?! lol Zoffix: NO CAN! :( Zoffix: only have her MSN. gimmegimmegimme Heh. :) Zoffix: LOL. #perl Freenode Geek Love Juerd: eh in today's world of heavy JS on the clientside, i think it makes a little more sense to use the same lang. everywhere rbastic: JS on the client side is because often it's the only option the universe provides. Juerd: from a business perspective, you reduce the complexity and potential difficulties in finding new hires with the same skillset rbastic: have you heard of RJS? rbastic: On the server side, however, you have great freedom. rindolf: no, what's that? larry wants perl6 to run on javascript :) rbastic: "One Language; and One Sayings". rbastic: Exactly. I would never hire a server side programmer who knows *only* Javascript, and is too stupid to learn whatever we're using on the server side. rbastic: my translation to a sentence from the Tower of Babel myth. Juerd: i'll agree with that also. any real programmer knows or has at least coded in half a dozen languages before From a business perspective, you should avoid crap coders at all cost. Knows *or* has coded... Hmmm...! rbastic: though according to what most scholars believe it was not about using one language but rather thinking the same. I hope they haven't coded in half a dozen languages without knowing them. That'd be scary. Reality is scary, Juerd Hmm, BASIC, FORTRAN, COBOL, assembler, C, more assembler, C, Pascal ... Perl! #perl Freenode The Grand Unified Programming Language rbastic: now I'm working with C++. rbastic: I found out that my project compiles really quickly. rbastic: under 5 or 10 minutes on a P4-2.4GHz with 1 GB of RAM. rbastic: maybe KDE is making g++ look bad. rindolf: yeah, i'm not a big KDE fan rbastic: actually I'm using KDE-3.5.8 here. rbastic: I was talking about the compilation speed of KDE apps and KDE itself. rbastic: possibly because each file has half-a-gazillion headers. My C++ code is a server one, so we don't have too many deps. yeah, isn't there a way to cache header files? ie. in their "compiled" form? or is that something I'm remembering from some other programming language that purported to build on top of C? rbastic: MSVC has that. ahh, nods rbastic: no, Visual C++ has precompiled headers. rbastic: I remember that I kept deleting them. yeah, couldn't remember lol Pascal compiles very quickly. That's one of the things I enjoyed in Delphi. ugh, the app i'm been maintaining in Java was originally a fat client/server desktop app, written in Delphi rbastic: ah. i remember booting up the old app for the first time, and being amazed at how slow it was eventually, i had to duplicate a feature in the Java code and i wasn't sure how it was implemented before rbastic: you mean the Java app is faster? :S so being as i had no Delphi experience, and the newer Delphi environments made NO sense to me at all, i just opened up the SQL Server query analyzer rindolf: yes, but only b/c the Delphi programmer was an idiot, issuing queries over and over again needlessly rindolf: if you could've seen the MSSQL Performance Analyzer or whatever, it was basically just.. Query1, Query2, Query3, Query1, Query2, Query3, repeat. it was probably the worst ive ever seen in my life.. belongs on www.thedailywtf.com #perl Freenode Can I haz a fast compiler scrottie: hi. hi rindolf! scrottie: are you the scrottie from use.perl.org? yeah. scrottie: ah, nice to meet you. Well, chat with you on IRC at least. cowers from the swinging fist probably coming his way scrottie: I'm "Shlomi%20Fish" oh, heh, thanks It's a curse. hmm. i vaguely remember interesting stuff from you but can't honestly place what. I know I've seen you around here before too. Yeah, my use.perl.org blog is mostly technical and perl-related. I post on use.perl.org entirely too much. So it may be a bit boring. Sometimes it's a bit philosophical. scrottie: yes. heh. and mine is offensively off-topic. scrottie: I have other blogs. I've posted to livejournal twice! #perl Freenode I think too much - therefore I blog too much Can we add styles like <b>, <i>, etc.? Or colours? Or blink? Or images? Or flash applets? <banner>! rindolf: No I think. Google's Web Application does not allow them. It is just a <textarea>. #perl Freenode How intrusive do you want your text to be? scrottie: you are a native English speaker right? scrottie: do you know #linguistics ? not familiar with #linguistics, yes, I am a native English speaker, but my spelling is atr... my spelling is terrible. atrocious? yeah, that I have an xterm dedicated to dict/spell scrottie: spelling is probably easy to fix using aspell. scrottie: heh. scrottie: I'm using xchat which has an red-line for spelling mistakes. Very useful. Too bad I'm using British spelling where it sometimes misbehaves. aspell, I mean. #perl Freenode Freenode's #pearl A lot of ise's [in Aspell's British Spelling checker] are false positivies. positives even. People who say $minor_spelling_correction even, are lam. lame even. I never get tired of these self-referential jokes. #perl Freenode Lame even The tech side was there... but I was stuck with my fucking graphics I did in crayon. I kid you not. Crayon. It was a cry for help. Programmers will work with each other on fun projects, but graphic designers never get involved in stuff like that. scrottie: ah. then there's kingdomofloathing.com... stick figures. scrottie: there are some graphic designers who contribute to KDE, GNOME, etc. fuck graphic artists. we should round them all up and burn them. scrottie: heh. okay, they can live. scrottie: scrotitler! the rest get burnt though. "He who starts by burning graphics desginers will end up burning programmers." only the ASP and PHP programmers... then we'll see where things are at and re-evaluate the plan. First they came to the graphics designers... then they came for more graphics designers scrottie: I knew some very nice PHP programmers. And VB ones. yeah, me too. real shame. scrottie: I still know some PHP programmers. #perl Freenode The Third #perl Reich (on Freenode #perl). has joined #perl B-rabbit? I know a B-rat on #linguistics. rindolf, cool =] B-rabbit: ok. my full name is bunny rabbit bt w :) hehe B-rabbit: ah. B-rabbit: "bunny" is a female name. lol rindolf: correct I know a bunny Or a Playboy bunny. rindolf: bunny is a stripper name friends call her bun pippijn: is she a stripper? rindolf, i am a male lol x sorry to disappoint u "IRC: Where men are men, women are men, and the kids are FBI agents." B-rabbit: ok, no problem. pippijn: she should change her name ik: it doesn't hurt her pippijn: right, but she's violating a fundamental law pippijn: she either needs to change her name or become a stripper ik: I think the other option is better. ik: she'd probably become a stripper rather than changing her name pippijn: LOL. rindolf: yeah, but you're creepy I think I'll make a fortune out of it. #perl Freenode The Name "Bunny" Hi rindolf :) Hi dazjorz dazjorz: what's up? dazjorz: No Tests for You? No *more No more tests :) dazjorz: No more tests for you!!! For three months! dazjorz: nice! :D Two, I think #perl Freenode The anti-School nazi Hi, I heard that Perl is just HTML with some sort of macro preprocessor attached. So I thought you would be the right people to ask about whether there is a way to make the submitted value on an <input type=submit> different from the visible label on the button. Thanks in advance. tars and feathers yrlnry. Hi, Roderick! How's the kid? you have been misinformed, sir; Perl is just a regex engine with named variables yrlnry: that is possibly one of the oddest questions I have ever heard ne2k__: What's odd about "How's the kid?" You need to get out more, seriously. yrlnry: I meant the original question Congratulations, I hope it's going well. Do you know that Jewish folktale about the man who lives in a tiny hut with his wife and kids and they can't stand the crowding any more, so they go to the rabbi for advice, and the rabbit suggests that they bring the chickens, goat, and cow into the house too? yrlnry: not that it has anything to do with perl, but the <input> tag in HTML has both "name" and "value" attributes. the value is what gets shown in the browser typically. ne2k__: yes, and the value is also what is submitted when someone presses the button, but I want the displayed label to be different from what it submitted, as it is say with <option ...> #perl Freenode yrlnry as a Perl newbie hi rind Hi mMish mMish: now you're mMish ? mMish: are you eMish, oMish, aMish , etc? yes mMish: ah, nice. depends on the mood GumbyBRAIN: how many nicks must a one IRCer have? Oh, i lie, now it's stuck on posting things to do it. You said you couldn't have one of many. mMish: ah OK. xMish iMish zMish Like the IBM computers. pMish ppszMish <--- HUngarian mMish: LOL. lpstrMish is lpstr a function? get_magic_quotes_gpcMish dazjorz: no, Long Pointer to string. PHP++ :') dazjorz: why? perlbot: karma PHP Karma for PHP: -147 It takes some nerve to say "PHP++" in #perl :P rindolf: because they have get_magic_quotes_gpc! don't we all love get_magic_quotes_gpc! dazjorz: oh. it's a function dazjorz: love, hate - what's the difference. dazjorz: that does what? to get the value of magic_quotes_gpc in the config file. dazjorz: ah. so they have get_magic_quotes_gpc for get_ini('magic_quotes_gpc') dazjorz: LOL. plus, there's the magic_quotes_gpc to escape all input a script gets via POST, GET and COOKIE. dazjorz: yes, sounds Evil. Just use placeholders. #perl Freenode Which Prefix do you Want today? Hey all, what's the best way to call one perl script from another? I was thinking I'd just use 'system("script.pl");' krang: yeah, that, or do "script.pl" krang: depends on how seperated you want them to be dazjorz: you mean just a line that has "script.pl"; written on it? you need the do as well krang: no, exactly this: do "script.pl"; krang: system is usually what you want. krang: normally require or use are preferable to do rindolf: that's for modules, isn't it ? dazjorz: yes. wait, I think require "script.pl" would work too dazjorz: and doing code is not such a good idea. rindolf: hmm? rindolf: what is doing anyway? dazjorz: I mean "perldoc -f do"-ing code. krang: do()-ing krang: it reads the file and evaluates it. krang: perldoc -f do. rindolf: ah rindolf: do {} would rather be doing hot models than doing code. :-) rindolf: yeah, do BLOCK is quite useless heh dazjorz: you can do my $var = do { ... } would rather be doing GumbyBRAIN than doing code and doing code is not be in the days of immortality! dazjorz: or eval { ... } dazjorz: heh. It's hard to do code. do $model; eh.. sorry, do $hotmodel; "Are you into my brother?" "No I'm totally into Perl." ah ok, I see. Thanks guys! krang: yw. heh :-) If you want a configuration file, you should be using something like INI, YAML, etc. XML perhaps. Something. Apache-like config. Apache-like is very strong but hard to parse, right ? Loading and saving configuration never looks good, especially when it's XML the code to load and save is ugly. #perl Freenode Sextalk among Perl cultists rindolf: are you coming out this way on tour some time? f00li5h: to .au? yes! f00li5h: don't think so. you can pay some of my rent for a bit ^_^ f00li5h: I'm out of job too. perfect timing! no commitments is very good at constructing circular arguments due to his skill in constructing circular arguments #perl Freenode Will rindolf come to Australia? today my kitty gave a birth to two kitties! Anon: ah, nice. one of them died :( during birth Anon: oh. :-( Anon: were you expecting it to happen? :( simcop2387, i was expecting this week Anon: do you know who the father is? ah rindolf, some cat rindolf: hopefully not him rindolf, remember my kitty ran away Anon: ah. for a week Anon: no I don't remember that. well, she ran away for a week Anon: ah. and came back and during that time she got pregnant. Anon: ah. they don't seem to have safe sex Anon: she eloped. Anon: sounds like she had fun simcop2387, sounds like that :) Anon: you should have the talk with her about birth control then (i wonder do they even make birth control for kitties) #perl Freenode The Love Life of Cats is listening to Oh crud. I should support Kaffeine too. rindolf is apparently deaf... ;-) is listening to Metallica - Nothing Else Matters NOTHING ELSE MATTERS, DUDE rindolf: thats nice :) rindolf: how about guns 'n roses? is listening to Guns and Runs - don't cry tkr: you read my mind. tkr: I now placed some of their songs. Now it's November Rain. rindolf: next time youll come to finland Ill buy you a beer (with no alcohol)! :) rindolf++ tkr: OK. tkr: we have something called "Black Beer" in Israel. Which is a non-alcoholic beer. rindolf: THATS RACIST! IT SHOULD BE AFRICAN AMERICAN ISREALI BEER! rindolf: is it any good? simcop2387: heh . #perl Freenode Beer, Perlers and Song I feel there must be a way to do this... given func( foo => 1, bar => 2 ); how to write my ( $foo, $bar ) = .... inside the function? My current attempt is my ( $foo, $bar ) = @{{@_}}{qw( foo bar )}; which is messy as sin LeoNerd: what's the problem? readability? Yah LeoNerd: I'd change specs to be func({ foo => 1, bar => 2}) then my ($foo, $bar) = ($_[0]{foo}, $_[0]{bar}); Leonerd: If you insist on doing it on one line, that's about as good as it gets. But why not use a temporary hash ? Should be just as fast and as readable Hrm.. :/ Then it's only marginally nicer as my ( $foo, $bar ) = @{$_[0]}{qw( foo bar )}; my %args = @_; my ( $foo, $bar ) = @args{qw( foo bar )}; ya... that works LeoNerd: my ($foo, $bar) = do { my %a = @_; @a{qw(foo bar)} }; if you combine it with a delete you can then check if %args is empty and catch typos or unexpected arguments.... Oooh.. a do block or use padwalker Oh, args won't be empty... this is a wrapper function that pulls a few named args off and sends the rest to a nested inner function Now.. I want to call a function "foreach" but that breaks things... suggestions? a method could be named 'foreach' Ya.. but this is a plain function tough I suppose "iterate" is about as best as I'll get for_each LeoNerd: forall ? I'll think on it overnight maybe.. I guess it's home time now foreachandeverysingleone forever, forfun, forlorn... FOREACH boo one_for $all and $all for @one; forevery? <LeoNerd> one_for $all and $all for @one; - heh $one for @all and @all for @one $one for @all and @all for @$one $one for @all and @all for $one Works too. Hrm.. it does? deparse: $one for @all and @all for $one LeoNerd: Error: syntax error at (eval 107195) line 1, near "@all for " You can't use two postmod fors in a single statement #perl Freenode Syntax Fun Hi, i am doing a print $drh->func('createdb',$database,"localhost","root",$password,'admin'); but getting this Can't call method "func" on an undefined value could anyone point me in the right direction ? o/~ Ow we want the func / Give up the func / Ow we need the func / We gotta have that func o/~ </drforr> We got the func! Forget the fee func, we've got the see func! wtf? did i launch a movement or what ? What the func?! #perl Freenode The func paws at dazjorz f00li5h! :) how goes it? it goes very fine. :) f00s at pawlish pkrums at pawkrumins f00li5h, thank you sir! =^_^= dazjorz: I am quite well li5hes at f00paw rins at pawdolf... man, I could go on forever. haha pawdolf dazes at pawjorz gumbys at .. oh well paws at GumbyBRAIN Ik paws at gumbybrain. #perl Freenode More Than One Way for a Cat to Paw is there a smart way to read a file to a certain string bit by bit ? which loop to use? Similian: you can read it byte by byte. Similian: do you want to read the whole thing? no too big 200 MB reading bit by bit is usually not supported by most operating systems Similian: then do you want to read one byte at a time? or one line at a time? guess a line would be better simcop2387-lab: it is on my rindolfOS running on Intel 1001. Which was a 1-bit processor. heh I had a half-bit processor it just stored ones ik: that would be a zero-bit processor then no no half-bit processor stores 0's or sqrt(2)'s sqrt(2) may as well be 1 rindolf: a 1 bit processor would be a hell of a thing to work with not if you can't test it unless it's one We're not talking about numbers, we're talking about on and off, true and false, whatever you want to call it sqrt(2) is nonzero, so it's one. danieldg: not 1/sqrt(2)? hmm it would probably be that, yes my proc uses sqrt[-1]! may as well ik: think quantum computers. It tests true with probability 1/sqrt(2) I'm not talking about a quantum computer.. well a 1/2 bit computer clearly can't be classical #perl Freenode Bit by bit whoppix: what's up? rindolf, haskelling through the night. whoppix: ah. rindolf, im pretty much a beginner, tho. whoppix: yes, I learned Haskell back at the time. whoppix: I tried to write a log analyser in Haskell once. whoppix: it segfaulted. whoppix: a CL-one was much better. rindolf: haha sadness whoppix: then people showed me how to write it better. whoppix: but it segfaulted too. haha hahaha lol whoppix: I gave up on using Haskell for production. rindolf: I've submitted your story to bash.org #perl Freenode Log Analyser in Haskell perlmonkey2: I've ran into a strange problem with CMake. It's some kind of bug that disappears after running a few commands. rindolf: heh, the best kind of bugs are intermittant and only happen under load :P perlmonkey2: it's not load. The best kind of bugs are the ones that do not happen at all :) daemon: heh. daemon++ The best kind of bugs are the ones that only happen to people you hate. hahahaha Those aren't usually bugs >:) Altreus, you mean the ones you coded to happen to that said person ;) hehe Not being able to reproduce strange behaviour is fine too #perl Freenode Best kind of bugs & Zoffix: fg ^Quiddity, no kill %1 kill -9 apeiron rindolf, EPERM kill: apeiron: arguments must be process or job IDs apeiron: sudo kill -9 apeiron killall -9 apeiron pkill -9 apeiron rindolf, user rindolf is not in the sudoers file, this event will be reported wonders what it says about him that he has that error message pretty much memorized apeiron: that you don't spend enough time issuing commands correctly #perl Freenode The IRC-Based UNIX Shell mst: sorry for that - that was not my intention. rindolf: I know it wasn't. you aren't that retarded. but the way your comment came across was :) mst: yes. mst++ mst: "you aren't that retarded." - you shouldn't insult my retardedness (sp?). I worked all my life to be so retarded. I think you can spell made-up words like 'retardedness' however you like if you're a retard. heh working hard is the exact opposite of retardedness :] hardly working #perl Freenode Retardedness trying to come up with a replacement name for my Flickr::Simple2.. (it is based off of XML::Simple rather than XML::Parser::Lite::Tree) - Net::Flickr, Flickr::API, Flickr::Simple are already taken. Any ideas? I'm coming up blank for a name It is a Perl interface to Flickr wait jfroebe: ah, I saw your message on Chicago.pm jfroebe: maybe WWW::Flickr you found others and decided you needed to make ANOTHER perl interface to flickr? the other ones have been broken for a long time (either because of use of the abandoned XML::Parser::Lite::Tree module or because the authentication method was never correctly implemented) jfroebe: Please no more names involving ::Simple buu: ::Tiny WWW::Flickr is a good possibility Thanks rindolf. hah tiny is the new simple ::Minimal. ::SeriouslyfuckingSmall ::NotEnough ::GargantuanlySmall ::Minuscule ::Warning::Uses::XML::Simple::And::Thus::Has:: Terrible::Performance::And::Memory::Usage ::Deficient stay in the Flickr:: space apeiron++ if there already is one mofino.. that's the problem what to name it ::Nano that should be small enough and it sounds serious jfroebe, something in Flickr:: ;) ::Femto lol - understood jfroebe, ::Improved ::Modern ::Lite ::Tiny ::FUCKYEAH jfroebe: a Rose by any other name... IS A DUCK I think half the posts to module-authors are about "How shall I name this module?" haha I use perlmonks for that ^_^ jfroebe: I'm not a fan of XML::Simple either. XML::Simple is teh awesome 1; XML::Simple is teh sux whatever "this could be an arrayref or a hashref or a nothingref depending on how many thingies were in your doo-dad" force it yes but yeah, that is a bit annoying ik++ - my thoughts exactly. OH SUDDEN HASHREF XML::Simple is the MySQL of XML parsers. haha ahh mysql, DOOOMED Haha # apeiron++ lol @ > apeiron There's a reason it's called "Simple." You'll find out about 3 days after you start using it. would it be anything releated to being feature-incomplete That would be be why it's "simple". but for simple XML data (i.e. Flickr's REST API), it is more than sufficient define "simple" XML $xml = '<' # already too complex kent - lol :) thoughts on Flickr::YA::API ? for a name jfroebe, YA? yet another ... just pick a name Flickr::API oh, nevermind mofino - now you see.. all the good ones are taken ;-) maybe you had it at Flickr::Simple2 Flickr::API:: something or something kent\n, namespace already in use Flickr::Two jfroebe, since your API is an improvement over Simple mst: lol Flickr::API::SucksLess jfroebe: you can call it Flickr::Jfroebey mofino, I think you might be right. Flicker::API::FAFINAFA rindolf - lol ... my head is already big enough lol jfroebe, i mean, if that's what it is, it shows a clear progression from Simple ( Flicker::API::FAFINAFA is not a flickr api ) Flicker::rekcilF jfroebe: I have released Spork::Shlomify with some random changes to Spork that I needed. Well, I use subclassing to implement them. lmao You forked that spork! apeiron: it's not a fork! It's an improved spork! Flickr::Bettr Flickr::Strobe ( its a bit brighter ) Flickr::OnAndOff Flickr::FullBeam Flickr::FullLights Flickr::2009 Flickr::Meat that way somebody will be able to invent something better next year and call it Flickr::2010 Flickr::rkcilF Flickr::Barbie::Edition Flickr::Nuts Flickr::3b0f3a25d07e5d9dbdf98db15ee70410 (and no, it is not random) Flickr::911wasaninsidejob hehe haha thanks guys :) I've requested the Flickr::Simple2 namespace via pause #perl Freenode "A rose by any other name…" (and a little on XML::Simple) Yaakov: icke==troll? Mel|work: no, he's not a troll. Mel|work: No, icke is just... enthusiastic about "channel purity" k.... hates when people abuse the == operator in English for "contained in" rindolf, "icke contained in troll"? That's not what Mel|work meant. sure he did, if you make troll a set of users apeiron: what he meant by icke == troll is that icke belongs to the set of trolls. apeiron: not that every troll in the world is icke. rindolf, No, he was asking if icke is a troll. $icke->isa('Troll'); (false) apeiron: is-a means "contained in the set of objects with the property of" apeiron: mathematically speaking. rindolf, Okay, so you're assigning the mathematical meaning of == to its usage in a *perl* channel? rindolf, Now who's fiddling with meanings, eh? apeiron: whatever. 'whatever' is what those who have lost their argument say. apeiron: whatever. ^ QED apeiron: whatever. apeiron: I thought that's what people who don't care say. PerlJam, If one doesn't care, they wouldn't respond. apeiron: whatever ;-) LOL. #perl Freenode Whatever My father and I joked about sorting the dishes in the dishwasher. My father said: "If you won't sort the dishwasher, the dishwasher won't be sorted." rindolf: bubble sort *g* dishsort Then I said "No, it won't be sorted by me." So he said "No, it won't be sorted at all. We will throw the dishwasher." "Along with all the dishes." Loci64: bubble sort is inefficient. Loci64: you should use quicksort or mergesort. or bashsort, or heapsort! yeah, but thorough. Loci64: or for small values of "N" - insertion sort. although I can't remember if those were stable. whoppix: what is bashsort? that matters for a dishwasher /bin/sort duh hehe, but dishwashers usually have medium to large numbers of N ;-) maybe trashsort solves the problem EvanCarroll: perldoc -f sort is more portable. rindolf, shellsort, not bashsort, sorry :) But I'll need to build a robot to use it with the dishes. cshsort here must be a trillion sorting algos and 9/10 of them are total shit and inferior in every way. This sorting algorithem is coveted if you KNOW that only one value is out of perfect order and it sits in the second to last position of the input. #perl Freenode dishsort Good localtime(), #perl! rindolf: good scalar localtime to you sproingie: oooh! scalar context. well i didn't want to make ya parse it sproingie: it is implied however. (er unparse it) Good strftime($format, localtime()). But better use DateTime. Or something. sub good ($$$) { ... } icke: yes. eval: good localtime(), #perl! rindolf: ERROR: syntax error at (eval 21) line 1, near "good localtime" eval: 'hi rindolf how is your '.scalar localtime.'?' Altreus: hi rindolf how is your Tue Mar 10 15:43:13 2009? Altreus: how is my Tuesday, 10-March-2009? Altreus: or do you mean down right to that exact second. rindolf: I gave you as much information as I could for you to use as you see fit. If you don't need it all you can just take the date #perl Freenode Good scalar localtime() The Module::Build saga goes on! Module::Build isn't a saga, it's a fucking horror series #perl Freenode Module::Build Hmm I should have checked the licence on Inline::Lua orochi_: licence it and people will steal it anyway :) Well, you can try to steal that, but it would be like a mouse stealing a battle tank. Altreus: you mean acronym? Perl license dwu: n IP is not pronounced as a word so it is not an acronym. At least not in the original meaning of the word: which is the only meaning given by a majority of dictionaries Yes, it's not a true acronym, though the word now has that baggage. Ip Ip Ip! ni! runs away Altreus: i say ip... :) IP would be an abbreviation. also, initials? but isms are cool. I see Eye.Pea. oooh yes. and dead people? is listening to Sesame Street - Yip Yip Martians dwu: Intent is involved; just because you say it as a word does not mean it was meant to be said as a word ;) wikipedia knows about it, and has like a million sauces cited mostly dictionaries YAPC is an acronymic moniker! BE THERE Altreus: well absolutement :) also, yumy, i like bernaise. I say* Eye.Pea. hrrrm, the oxford cream dictionary. *nomnomnom* rindolf: awww. Eye.Pea.Freely dwu: heh no-one says "ip", everyone says "Eye Pea" Ip address rindolf: can you just -say- dead people, for the heck of it? Yip address ne2k__: provably false. i need an ip address, stat! yiff address? dwu: I say dead people. <3 rindolf dwu: I say. you do :) I say I say I say dwu: :-) dwu: you can't stat an ip address, only a file #perl Freenode How to say IP? Su-Shee: it's VBA, not VB. Su-Shee: completely different beast. Su-Shee: and much saner. Su-Shee: I don't know VB. Never had the need. _Fauchi95_: alright rindolf: And you coll yourself a programmer... And hopefully will never have the need. fuzzix: call rindolf: Good coll. Dvorak's tough after spending the day on qwerty :) fuzzix: coll again? Hmm... there is such a word called "coll". rindolf: That one was a joke :) why stop now? he's on a roll Wonder what it means. fuzzix: ah. c0bra: a rick roll? rall a coll roll roll the ball. rall the boll. And go to the Super-bowl. Coll\, v. t. [OF. coler, fr. L. collum neck.] To embrace. "Rolling is hard. Let's go to the mall." #perl Freenode You coll yourself a programmer 2010 is planned more or less as a refactoring year. A whole *year*? What physical plane of existence do you reside on? DrForr_: there's also bugs to fix and systems to care for and things like that. it's not that we're locked into the closet and a year later a new, shiny product is released. ;) Closet optional. I'm not a wonderwoman refactoring half a million lines of perl in a week, sorry. :) Su-Shee: Chuck Norris refactors 10 millions lines of perl before lunch. rindolf: hm. that's the reason.. I'm not as hairy as chuck norris and I don't have a beard... Su-Shee: ah. Su-Shee: Chuck Norris also wrote a complete Perl 6 implementation. rindolf: I heard, he already wrote Perl 7. Su-Shee: yes. wants to be as awesome as Chuck when he grows up. rindolf: I envy you. I'll never be as awesome without a beard. Su-Shee: heh. Su-Shee: it doesn't matter if you're rigid on the outside as long as you're rigid on the inside. chuck norris doesn't make mistakes. Su-Shee: Chuck Norris corrects God. rindolf: I'll apply as his secretary. Su-Shee: as Chuck's? rindolf: yes. Su-Shee: OK. Chuck Norris doesn't code. When he sits next to a computer, it just does whatever he wants. I'll tell my boss tomorrow. Chuck is who he wants. Su-Shee: Chuck Norris is his own boss. Su-Shee: if you hire him, he'll tell your boss what to do. good point. #perl Freenode Becoming as awesome as Chuck Norris is hi perly! hey Chris, hey integral dabreegster, don't know you do I but HEY anyway what's been up? Ignore me, fine. goes in a corner dabreegster is the man, man Ah, that's better. perlygatekeeper: yo, yo, yo, dude! rindolf!! perlygatekeeper: what's up? hmmm not much you? perlygatekeeper: fine. Let me recall what I said to ezra. perlygatekeeper: I'm fine. Got into a few flamewars, and escaped alive to tell the tale. perlygatekeeper: worked a bit on my story "The Human Hacking Field Guide". perlygatekeeper: (which, BTW, you appear there (as your IRC nick at least) perlygatekeeper: and now working on the Computer Graphics section of my homepage. rindolf, what the hell? perlygatekeeper: excuse me? rindolf was that someone pretending to be me? I never said those things perlygatekeeper: it's a fictitious story. perlygatekeeper: relax. perlygatekeeper: or you could be the imposter right now... or maybe just schizophrenic. dabreegster: MPDed not schizophrenic. dabreegster: schizophrenia is not Multi-Persona-Disordered. perlygatekeeper: It's fan fiction from your fan! rindolf: what's the difference? dabreegster: MPD is when there are several personalities living inside your brain. dabreegster: in schizophrenia, you have one I-ness, but hear voices, hallucinate and stuff. rindolf: Ah. Why is it considered a disorder? MPD could be quite useful... One would have different perspectives on a subject. where's beth, she'll know it's me But how will we know it's beth?! rindolf: Oh, I have MPD then, not schizophrenia. I don't hallucinate. integral: WE DON'T! I don't hallucinate, but my other personality does. How do I know all of you exist? Am I just a figment of my own imagination? b0at: Interesting... dabreegster: Julian Jaynes describes schizophrenia very well in his "The Origins of Consciousness during the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind book". nono, you're all just figments of _lilo_'s imagination rindolf: I'll check it out he wishes integral: and you? the voices tell me if it's really beth or not perlygatekeeper: The voices tell me everything. Wait, I do have the Voices. Maybe I have MPD _and_ schizophrenia. Ah, but the question is: do the Voices have voices? dabreegster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Origin_of_Consciousness_in_the_Breakdown_of_the_Bicameral_Mind And if so, is it your own voice? b0at: And do the voices of the voices have voices? That's just going too far. don't worry, those are angels, invest in tarot cards and you will be able to understand them b0at: and if it's not, then could it be the voice of........ integral? rindolf? or.... buu! buu has other plans for our empty skulls b0at: and if they do, then what do the voices of the voices of the voices of the Voices sound like? *sob* it's the cabbages. The cabbages keep telling me to do things really? most of the time it's the socks that tell me stuff integral: The lawn gnomes tell me. They're........everywhere...*sniffle* *blubber* the socks are worse, there's moths living in them The lawn gnomes tell me to stay away from Life. They force me to write poetry. integral: *whispering* are the _moths_ the Voices? or the voices of the Voices? or the voices of the voices of the Voices? goes back to reading *looks furtively around for moths* #perl Freenode The voices told me so. Su-Shee: I'm not good in detecting sarcasm over IRC. But naturally sometimes say sarcastic things myself. cuts his Nerd Membership Card in small pieces rindolf: that's why god gave us the ;) smiley ;) Su-Shee: not God, but a Russian enterpreneur who trademarked it. wishes we were all speaking in XML. J/K. Even Perl is not good enough for human communication. rindolf: are you really still that nerdy in your age? Su-Shee: I guess. Su-Shee: nerdy or geeky? Su-Shee: I.e: technologically inclined or having no social life? is both though. rindolf: so let's called it nerky. ;) But hopefully once I get a gf, I'll be less of a Nerd. rindolf: what makes you think that? Su-Shee: I'll go out. Su-Shee: and stuff. Su-Shee: I also consider to start studying in Tel Aviv Uni. rindolf: and why does that require a girl friend? English/Hebrew/etc. or something. Lots of girls there. :-) Su-Shee: going out? those are language-skills humanities-department girls. ;) rindolf: yes. Su-Shee: I like language geeks. Thing is I think my knowledge of English and Hebrew is too superficial. And I lack the discipline to correct it on my own. rindolf: language departments like English are usually exactly _not_ geek-ish departments. Su-Shee: you mean they are not tech-savvy? But you can be an English geek. rindolf: they're not even language geeks usually. Or a hacker of English. Su-Shee: really? How sad. rindolf: you know some people just want to have good language skills and read books and communicate. a good hacker will know at least three languages. Well, maybe it's different in Israel. peterrooney: human ones, right? rindolf: at least one of them should be human I know English, Hebrew, studied Literary Arabic for 6 years and forgot most of it, and have some rudimentary French. peterrooney: ok. peterrooney: I think ever hacker should know Perl, Python, Haskell, C, Scheme/Lisp and Bash. And HTML/XHTML+CSS+etc. thank god I'm no hacker. ;) hacks Su-Shee into a hacker. rindolf: no you won't. one can perfectly well do nice tech stuff without degrading into someone he/she's not. Su-Shee: don't you like programming ? Didn't you contribute to FOSS? rindolf: aaand? I can do that without declaring myself as hacker, nerd, geek or whatever. Su-Shee: OK. Su-Shee: but it still makes you a hacker. rindolf: trust me, I'm very much not a hacker. really. honest to god not. gives a blue badge of honour saying "Hacker" to Su-Shee Su-Shee: too late, you're one of us now! ;-) "Resistance is futile." #perl Freenode Hacking someone into a hacker icke, how to start REPL? FreakGuard: looked in the docs? icke, no. you got to load it from CPAN icke, yeah, I've installed it. sells FreakGuard perl docs at a reasonable price only $9.99 each perldoc Devel::REPL is the direct way to info then wrings his hands and cackles icke, thanks :P bests Altreus' bargain by 1 cent. Reminds me of what I learned in Game Theory. offers free delivery allows free download Of course quality > price. offers a deluxe edition of the Perl documentation for 1,000 USD plus shipping and handling. diamond-encrusted? See http://perldoc.perl.org/ for a preview. huf: natural diamonds, too. huf: Canadian diamonds. well, if <> is natural... :) huf: heh. huf: not this kind of diamond. compresses if () under several million tonnes of rock for a few aeons I also give free spaceships - <=> heh Diamonds are heresy! We need PEARLs! /usr/bin/PEARL f00li5h: Seems like it! I prefer other gems :-) I suggested to Think Geek that they should do Perl necklaces but they didn't FreakGuard: Ruby gems? rindolf, correct. The rare PHP Darling I got you a PHP wedding ring oh it broke Altreus: as PHP tends to. laughts maniacally. you maniac! #perl Freenode Given enough suckers, all profits become shallow apeiron: because I write client side (Provider) which sends push messages to the phone and checks for new mail in perl Enl: a cellphone? No, a rotary POTS phone that's capable of receiving email, rindolf. rindolf: iphone, yep apeiron: :-) apeiron++ apeiron: I want a phone like that! apeiron: do you sell them? rindolf, Yes, and I have some oceanfront property for you, too. apeiron: would you accept some of my copious gold bars in return? rindolf, No. I only deal in Latinum! apeiron: Latinum. apeiron: gold-pressed Latinum? yes. apeiron: I only have silver-pressed Latinum. rindolf: get an iPhone, lol apeiron: would you accept LeoNerd and nanonyme as substitutes ? You can sell them for mucho Latinum. heh Enl: iPhones are worthless. conspires to steal the ApeironPhones. I didn't say I was honest. jealously guards his G1 rindolf: now really Enl: you should get an ApeironPhone too. Enl: chicks love it. what rindolf: pff, chicks dont matter I would kill for an ApeironPhone! ahaem? kills Su-Shee and takes her ApeironPhone. ... wtf. hahaha uses his RindolfMindReading™ to see who else has an ApeironPhone. Put down the acid, Shlomi. o.o like that'll help he's still got ~8 hrs on it rindolf: I have an apeiron-phone? where did buu go anyway? Su-Shee: you had one. Su-Shee: before you died. #perl Freenode The ApeironPhone - you know you want it Su-Shee: "I always wonder why the people I hang out with are so pedantic. And then I remember: because they are so pedantic." -- a Perl-ILer. ;-) rindolf, because they use warnings adds "use Zaba;" to his code. oh no, I'm being used! adds "abuse Zaba;" to his code. Next: "misuse Zaba;" ouch! #perl Freenode use Zaba She's a hot chick. But she smokes. She can smoke as long as she's smokin'. #perlcafe Freenode She can smoke… has joined #perl when will I be able to write a perl gui that will work on the ipad? johnjohn101: iPad? johnjohn101: was it released yet? johnjohn101: I think there are Perl bindings for Cocoa/Carbon/etc. today.. Just getting sucked by the hype johnjohn101: ah. johnjohn101: I'm incredibly suspicious of Apple. why's that? will wait for the cheap ipad knockoff that runs Android and can multitask johnjohn101: http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/anti/apple/ 133 links and going strong. thinks he has a link on his homepage or blogs for every occasion. they definitely know how to hype their new products. I get so suspicious of the hype. Nothing ever lives up to that type of billing johnjohn101: yes, I'm suspicious of hype too. rindolf the new apple maxipad is out today.. leave it to apple to create a new device with all the cost of a high end laptop.. the performance of a netbook and the interface of a cellphone gooshie: and no multitasking gooshie: heh. gooshie++ will google be able to match it? anytime soon? Some technologies were not hyped and yet became very popular - UNIX, C, HTML. there's no amazingly complicated technology involved it's just a big iphone nicely packaged drop it once and it's unusable? ...if they just made a cover to protect the screen.. and then maybe because they had like a cover the inside could be the screen and the other part could then be a keyboard!.. that would be cool! gooshie: good thing you have an open mind about the product!! d:-/ ..the new apple maxipad... when your laptop is too big.. your iphone is too small and your wallet is too full. #perl Freenode iCanHazPad? so while i'm on the subject, is there a good perl HTML framework similar to what CakePHP is to PHP ? like an MVC style environment so i'm wondering if mason is "state of the art" or if there are other tools to consider these days :) Catalyst. catalyst ok, cool ty markl_: there are plenty of other web-devel frameworks. perlbot: web frameworks rindolf: CGI-Application (and Titanium), CGI-Application-Plus, CGI-Builder, CGI-Prototype, Jifty, Catalyst (and Reaction), Mojo, SweetPea, Dancer, Gantry, AxKit, WebGUI rindolf: hmm, way too many it would appear :) markl_: yeah. what are the easiest ones for people good with perl but not HTML/CSS/AJAX experts ? markl_: not that Ruby or PHP have fewer. or the most widely adopted one ? markl_: the most popular appears to be Catalyst. catalyst seems to at least have a book :) markl_: it has several books. markl_: I worked a bit with Mojolicious, and it wasn't too bad, but it reinvents a lot of wheels. Due to its philosophy. markl_: I also did some Catalyst projects. Catalyst is a bit complicated. sawyer: can you comment about Dancer? Dancer is a lightweight web framework, it aims to make website development easy and rapid like all the other web frameworks :) for complex or extensive websites, i recommend Catalyst but for smaller or not-as-complex website, Dancer is what i use ok ty wants the one which makes it hard, complicated and difficult ;) Su-Shee, true :) #perl Freenode Web Development Frameworks frikinz: but you're welcome to ignore us, just come back for your "I told you so" when the penny finally drops :D buu: define penny finally drops buubot: define penny finally drops rindolf: penny n 1: a fractional monetary unit of Ireland and the United Kingdom; equal to one hundredth of a pound 2: a coin worth one-hundredth of the value of the basic unit [syn: {cent}, {centime}] [also: {pence} (pl)] frikinz: Reflex is still pretty raw, but it's eventy without so much loopy. In Hebrew we say "The phone token has fallen" instead of "the penny finally drops". Is that related to "the other shoe has dropped"? dngor: well, it means the same thing as the English expression - "I finally got to the bottom of it." Or understood it. Oh, they're completely different idioms. beats dngor with a slipper mst: :-D kinky. Su-Shee: wrt the topic ["Su-Shee wants the web-development framework that makes web-development hard, difficult and complicated"], it's called Maypole :) mst: heh. mst: yes, I can imagine that about Maypole. mst, avar: thank you so much. ;) please mail the sourcecode to rindolf who put it in the topic ;) Su-Shee: I can CPAN it. the topic? I have a string and am looking for a quick way to extract all 5-character slices out of it. Su-Shee: :-) IRC-Freenode-Perl-Topic-SuShee-WebDevelFrameworks-v0.0.1.tar.gz For eg. 'abcdef' returns 'abcde', 'bcdef' Any suggestions? mutewit: use subst mutewit: use substr mutewit: with a map eval: my $long_str = "0123456789abcdefgh"; [map { substr($long_s, $_, $_+5 } (0 .. length($long_s)-5)] rindolf: ERROR: syntax error at (eval 36) line 1, at EOF eval: my $long_str = "0123456789abcdefgh"; [map { substr($long_s, $_, $_+5) } (0 .. length($long_s)-5)] rindolf: [] rindolf: Awesome. eval: my $long_s = "0123456789abcdefgh"; [map { substr($long_s, $_, $_+5) } (0 .. length($long_s)-5)] rindolf: ["01234",123456,2345678,"3456789a","456789abc","56789abcde","6789abcdefg","789abcdefgh","89abcdefgh","9abcdefgh","abcdefgh","bcdefgh","cdefgh","defgh"] Thrid time the charm! ... thrid hits buubot with a big strict pragma. turns the slipper on rindolf mst: yes, my typing sucks today. But f**k it! IRC is not exactly the declaration of independence. ow! pragma_: pardon? hits pragma_ with mst's slipper so it will really hurt. why are you hitting buubot with me? pragma_: the strict pragma. pragma_: not you. perlbot: strict rindolf: Perl strictures - http://perldoc.perl.org/strict.html pragma_: ^^^ pragma_: we call the lowercase modules pragmata (sp?) in Perl. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=pragmata - hmm.... I thought pragmata was a valid plural of pragma. ow? ow! rindolf: Are you sure that generates only strings of length 5? mutewit: well, you need to watch from fencepost errors. mutewit: hey, he got you half way there mutewit: oh wait. mutewit: how about you read p3rl.org/substr and p3rl.org/map and have a go yourself mutewit: yes , you need substr($long_s, $_, 5) mutewit: this is a help-you-to-learn channel mutewit: not a "write your code for you" channel mutewit: and beware from fencepost errors. like substr($long_s , 1000, 5) Because that will be "" Or a 4 chars length. rindolf: I wanted the length argument to be 5 :p mst: I understand, I just missed the $_ + 5 issue. mutewit: right. what I'm saying is, you should have experimented mutewit: yes, I know. mutewit: then shown us the experiment and said "I can't work out why this is still wrong, here's what I've worked out so far" mutewit: then we can help you learn mutewit: assuming learning to write stuff yourself is what you're aiming for waits for tybalt89 to come up with a funky regex to do it. (if it isn't, please just throw yourself off a cliff or something, kthx ;) mst: I think that's the case, no need to preach to mutewit about it. mutewit: I did, and figured out the soln. when switching windows. mutewit: aye. I'm just trying to explain how to get the most learning out of us as well as the most working code. sometimes thinks we spend much more IRC volume discussing netiquette than actually suffering from the bad netiquette. But by the time I came back to the channel there was a whole page of "preaching". I was using a split method with array indexing and it felt too much like a C-approach. mutewit: oh, you split the string into chars? yeah, by the time you've done map, join, split, ... you've basically just reimplemented substr badly :) rindolf: That's what I was doing, but the map/substr approach is a lot cleaner. mutewit: yeah/ mutewit: split into chars sometimes has some uses. mutewit: but this reminds me too much of SICP. perlbot: sicp rindolf: http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/ - "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs" - A Classical Text on Programming mutewit: see - http://www.shlomifish.org/lecture/Perl/Lightning/Too-Many-Ways/slides/slide13.html mutewit: this is how an SICP programmer will implement a simple text processing task. SICP, love the book. and all the OCaml work this year has given rise to a functional bent of mind which is kinda screwing around with my perl code. mutewit: yeah. mutewit: http://www.shlomifish.org/lecture/Perl/Lightning/Too-Many-Ways/slides/slide12.html - this is the fastest Perl solution. At least in speed. It can be a little shorter with a regex lookahead, but it's less elegant and slower. http://www.shlomifish.org/lecture/Perl/Lightning/Too-Many-Ways/slides/slide9.html - there you go. mutewit: did you know how to program before reading SICP? I think it's not a good introductory book. MIT are going to ditch it in favour of some Python/Robotics curriculum. I think it's only a good introductory book if you know some math and have the brain to follow it it teaches a lot of hard concepts very quickly mst: from a "I'm from the humanities department" point of view it's managable. it's not easy, but everyone can work with it. eval: $_ = "0123456789abcdefgh"; [ /(?=(.{5}))/g ] tybalt89: ["01234",12345,23456,34567,45678,56789,"6789a","789ab","89abc","9abcd","abcde","bcdef","cdefg","defgh"] rindolf: Yes. mutewit: ah. Using what? tybalt89++ # Up for the challenge. and yes, MIT ditched SICP in favor of a Python-based intro course. rindolf: I was off in other windows :( mutewit: ^^ for 5 char slices mutewit: don't use it if you want future generations to understand it. slaps tybalt89 with mst's slipper for golfing mutewit's solution and telling him it's a good idea. rindolf: that's not golfing, just common simple regex :) tybalt89: sigh. tybalt89: simple. irregular regular expression. Maybe use Regexp::Common I added in tybalt89's code but commented it for future reference. I'd definitely use the substr approach for real code tybalt89's code is cleverness to prove it can be done; I don't believe he was recommending it mst: sigh, yes, I am recommending it. It's the clearest solution. tybalt89: I respectfully disagree. I find the substr approach far more obvious rindolf, ty. :) but then, I mostly write applications perl rather than scripts, so I only engage in regexp cleverness when actively useful tybalt89: look-aheads and look-behinds are dark corners of the Perl not-so-reg-regexes In the context of this particular problem, it's pretty straightforward, but, knowledge of the development/maintenance team(s) would push my choce one way or another. mst: note it took rindolf three tries, and even then he got it wrong. tybalt89: well, I'm not focused now. tybalt89: map substr($str, $_, 5), 0 .. length($str)-5; ? maybe -6 turns the lens, trying to focus rindolf mst: -5 but it's hardly difficult; rindolf's just having a day of silly mistakes Unit tests! I'd expect him to get it right first time when on form too :) Some clear code is hard to get right. Doesn't make it less clear. yeah Most people will not write a correct binary search at first try. "maybe -6" is proof of unclearness :) But the correct binary search is easy to digest. tybalt89: no, it's proof it's 8pm on a sunday and I'm not particularly awake either but your code just made me go "hang on, WHAT?!" then I had to stop and dissect it -then- I saw what you were doing mst++ also, the substr approach displays the semantics and the reasoning whereas the regex approach displays, well, line noise, frankly mst: why don't we agree to disagree with tybalt89 ? mst: so how's the weather? ;-) #perl Freenode Slippers and Perl is there just a way of importing the global variables in the module from the main script? no yes anno: you can using Exporter depends but I hope no one will teach you nadim: sorry. :-( from the main script? for what? nadim: about the Exporter. bad boy! papertigers: yes. but definitely don't do this: { no strict 'refs'; *{"main::$_"} = sub () { $constant{$_} } foreach keys %constant; } nadim: :-( papertigers: please design a good API using subroutines and objects. OK I get it you are all working towards the same goal. making the worst perl developer in the universe nadim: yes, someone has to outcompete me. that would be hard nadim: I'm tired of being the worst Perl hacker for 5 years straight. heh nadim: it's not easy. .me hands the black camel to rindolf nadim: it involves many commitments. rindolf: lol, true but at least it explains all the advice you have been giving hehe Khisanth: true. :-) LOL. rindolf: i dunno if anyone actually read the code to Language::Farnsworth they might think otherwise and I am not joking http://search.cpan.org/dist/Lingua-tlhInganHol-yIghun/ all! rindolf: when you can program perl like that it will be a good day to die nadim: Klingon? right nadim++ nadim: heh, nice. klingon? http://search.cpan.org/~jwalt/Acme-Lingua-NIGERIAN-1.0.0/NIGERIAN.pm blah. squeeks's url is at http://xrl.us/bhg9bo nadim: I'll recommend it to someone so he can outcompete me. rubs his hands with an evil grin on his face. nadim: that doesn't seem to be using the correct font the module is impressing (Damian is no joke) even the documentation is great nadim: we've got a plan! hides dearly loves Damian's code but I really do wish it was all in the Acme:: namespace where it belongs mst: heh. I like his API's. very difficult to find something that is not complete and well thought nadim: yes, but he tends to neglect them and then they accumulate bugs. I could list ten other names here Ingy! nadim: heh. oops, I tried not to :) nadim: IO::All nadim: not *everything* ingy writes needs to be Acme though, yes, quite a bit of it :D mst: I didn't mean acme. I think Ingy has a lot of great ideas. oh, you're talking about maintainership yes yeah, why do you think I got so good at giving my modules away? what's your secret? ingy was responsible for jemplate, I think - still one of my favourites. nadim: first you give 'em commit bits, then you give 'em co-maint, then when they're not looking you make a run for it. makes a mental note #perl Freenode World's Worst Perl Programmer (5 years straight) My Moose-based modules emit strange errors when ran under Devel::Cover . /me is a sad kitten. When my moose emit things I begin to worry. I don't even have a moose. but I go to Ikea sometimes! "I want a Moose!" buys a Moose for Su-Shee One Moose Per Child. A moose in every.. editor? I'll have to put it in the living room. If we perldoc -f fork a Moose-based program do we get two Meese. Su-Shee: what if it's a Chocolate Moose? now it's not the elephant in the room noone's talking about, it's the moose. rindolf: real size? living room. Tycho de Brahe had a moose free running in his castle Unraniborg. he found a vat of beer, drank it, fell down a stair and had to be killed. hm, I could make a nice shower gel with moose milk powder and sell it exclusively to perl programmers. anno: the astronomer? yes anno: ah, really? anno: I don't have a castle. few do indeed. wise anno. One Castle Per Child! when I do my moose presentation, I'll rename myself to Moo-Shee. Su-Shee: and rent a Castle. good idea. on company's expenses. ;) Su-Shee: heh. anno: wanna come? I own Schloss Charlottenburg now. ;) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlottenburg_Palace - hmmm.... contemplates what to do now. RESTs. Maybe I'll watch more of Red vs. Blue. Or I'll rent Schloss Charlottenburg . Or something. I may want to refactor the other parts of XML-Grammar-Fiction/Screenplay. I can live without testcover. But I need my Moose. #perl Freenode One Moose Per Child Do we have any doctors in here? dxtr: with Ph.D. or M.D.? I have a PhD in Linguistics! ^ lie :] rindolf: I don't care as long as they can treat patients dxtr: heh. :o webmd.com might be better than #perl rindolf: That question would be fun in combat. "WE NEED A DOCTOR HERE!" - "PH.D OR M.D!?" #perl Freenode Do we have any doctors in here? eval: my $txt = "this is a test"; my $rslt = substr($txt, 4, length($txt) - 4, undef); [ $txt, $rslt ]; tm604: ["this"," is a test"] ^ can anyone suggest a neater way of writing that? thought undef for the 3rd substr parameter would work instead of explicitly giving a length. eval: my $txt = "this is a test"; my $rslt = substr($txt, 4, - 4, q{}); [ $txt, $rslt ]; rindolf: ["thistest"," is a "] Just surprised that omitting the length for substr isn't the same as passing undef. tm604: sometimes perl makes a difference between "not specified" and undef tm604: wouldn't regexpr be shorted? I'm not sure what passes as 'neat' in perl :) shorter, even... eval: @s = ("Long string this is a test" =~ m{\A(.{0,6})(.*?)\z}ms); [@s] rindolf: ["Long s","tring this is a test"] tm604: will that work? rindolf: thanks, that may be a better option. tm604: nice. :-) that would definitely not be "better" ... it's slower ;) hmm, since I'm passing this through SOAP::Lite through a vpn on the other side of the world maybe three times a day, I think I'll have to rewrite this part in highly-efficient x64 assembler with fallback to GPU if available. nah you need an FPGA #perl Freenode Mission critical fast may be neat, but hard to follow not fore real code qubit: cute. *anno how did you get.. ah. ;) Botje: clean your a so you don't slide to the q ;) Su-Shee: switch from qwerty to azerty :p :) ant i'm distracted steals Botje's a while he's distracted anyway... give th.t b.ck!! lAlAlAlaaaaah! :) how will i cope without .n . key! "h".chr(ord('b')-1)."t"... 4in't th4t good enough *hehe* ;) take anno's. ;) time for 4n 4cme module! god what have I done.. ;) lipogrammatical perl. is that the opposite of lowfat c? (lipograms are works with one letter not used...) ah. of course. it's leipogramm in german.. hmm... lipos - fat, lipein - lack ah, leipein #perl Freenode Surviving without the letter "a". wait, people use binary packages in freebsd? fedoragirl, pkg_add -rv <package_name> I thought everyone compiled from source manually or from ports :( No, not any more I knew it was possible I just didn't realize anyone would actually do that I thought it was a gimmick those wacky devil worshipers over at freebsd it's funny because my roomate is into demonology and she actually uses fedora while I, for the most part, use freebsd or debian yet your nickname would imply otherwise my nickname implies a lot of things bsdgirl would just attract far too much attention EdwardIII: thanking you for pointing out the obvious. I think, noone would have noticed otherwise. come to mention it maybe i'll take that nickname arf arf bsdgirl is actually taken and I really should find a new one hats <3 -NickServ- debiangirl is not registered. man, lucky for us women, there more distributions out there than women in computing. we can ALL have our own nick! Su-Shee++ # roflmao Su-Shee: heh. yggdrasilgirl, slackgirl, fromscratchgirl .. imagine the possibilities. slackboy sounds pretty sexy #perl Freenode What would your nickname imply