Freenode ##programming Conversations - (Fortunes Cookies) Shlomi Fish’s Collection [satire]

About

The Freenode IRC Network’s ##programming channel is a channel for discussing programming. These are some conversations and related excerpts from it in XML-Grammar-Fortune format.

( Note: on chat services, I tend to use the nicknames "rindolf" or "shlomif". )

Table of Contents

The Fortunes Themselves

rindolfljuwaidah: so aren't there more people who use FOSS in Oman?
ljuwaidahthere are, but they're only a few
rindolfljuwaidah: ah.
rindolfOman has .om as its TLD.
rindolf.om .nom .nom
rindolfp.om p.om
rindolfkabo.om
rindolfDJB got the cr.yp.to domain.
rindolfAnd there's also ali.as which is Adam Kennedy's.
ljuwaidahlooool
ljuwaidahrand.om :P
ljuwaidahdo.om :P
ljuwaidahro.om
ljuwaidahm.om
Black_Phoenixyour.m.om
ljuwaidahhahahaha
ljuwaidahis that supposed to be a milf site? :P
rindolfyahoo.c.om
ljuwaidahbro.om
rindolfhttp://yourmom.com/
rindolfThough it's down now.
ljuwaidahdon't keep your hopes up on .om domains
ljuwaidahour ISP is a greedy money sucker
rindolf"I'd rather be a .com than a .om"
ljuwaidahrindolf: me too
rindolfljuwaidah: this was a joke.
rindolfI have a few .org domains.
rindolfFrom GoDaddy
ljuwaidahunless you need it for a domain trick
* Black_Phoenix<--- .com bastard here
ljuwaidahrindolf: where's the joke?
rindolfljuwaidah: joke?
rindolfljuwaidah: it rhymes.
rindolfdot-com, dot-om - get it? get it? get it?
rindolf;-)
ljuwaidahno :(
rindolfljuwaidah: om rhymes with com.
ljuwaidahso?
rindolfljuwaidah: "I'd rather be a dot-com than a dot-om"
rindolfljuwaidah: it's just a silly rhyme.
Black_PhoenixI'd rather a website
rindolfBlack_Phoenix: I accidentally a web-site.
ljuwaidahI still don't get the joke
Black_Phoenixrindolf, I'd still rather a blog
rindolfBlack_Phoenix: rather what a blog?
Black_PhoenixWebsite a blog
rindolfljuwaidah: never mind.
ljuwaidahsorry, I don't know why I'm slow today
rindolfBlack_Phoenix: do you mean that you would rather *be* a web-site?
Black_PhoenixI'd rather website a blog
Black_Phoenixbroken grammar time :D
ljuwaidahBlack_Phoenix: when did website become a verb?
Black_Phoenixit didn't
Black_PhoenixI'm using it as a verb to produce nonsense
ljuwaidahI sense light!
ljuwaidah{I see}
rindolfljuwaidah: http://www.google.com.om/
ljuwaidahrindolf: I know
rindolfIf Google can do it - so can you.
ljuwaidahI don't use it
ljuwaidah'cause some services don't work on it
rindolfljuwaidah: ah.
rindolfljuwaidah: in any case, seems like one can register a .com.om domain.
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineThe .om domain
Published2009-12-14

With what to write code?

Display

Quetzalcoatl_How do I write a computer vision program in C on a microcontroller?
dyfQuetzalcoatl_: with a text editor?
Quetzalcoatl_Hmm.. Never thought of that. But which editor? Is Notepad good enough?
maukeno, you need at least Wordpad
rindolfmauke: I suggest MS Word or at least OpenOffice.org
rindolfmauke: but in order to really be able to write well, you need a desktop publishing program like Scribus or Adobe FrameMaker.
* rindolfwonders which compiler will accept PDFs as input.
waitingrindolf: /usr/bin/pdftotext
rindolfwaiting: and pray.
rindolfThere's an esoteric programming language called Piet (I think) that accepts images as input.
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineHow to write stylistic code
Published2009-12-14

Your Emacs is so fat

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rindolfDeiu: which editor are you using?
DeiuUgh, let me catch up with the convo first
DeiuAnd yeah, I use vim too
rindolfDeiu: ah good. If you were using Eight Megabytes And Continuously Swapping , I would have to swap you with it!
rindolfI have a column of vim tips on one of my blogs.
rindolfI also like Escape-Meta-Alt-Control-Shift.
rindolfThere are a lot of jokes about Emacs.
ZuuThere are lots of jokes about your mom too ;)
rindolfZuu: eMom
Zuueh?
rindolfe-Macs -> eMum
rindolf"Your Mom is so fat, only Emacs takes more memory than her."
Zuunope, doesn't work
rindolfZuu: :-(
ZuuYour emacs is so fat that your mom could fit in it
rindolfHeh.
Zuuahhh, yes, much better
rindolfZuu++
Zuu:P
→dbmhas joined ##programming
* rindolfstores some key/value pairs in dbm
* Zuustores some moms in dbm
dbmlol
rindolfZuu: you overflowed him.
Zuu:>
dbm;)
rindolfOr her, don't know.
rindolfthem.
dbm'him'
rindolfOK.
rindolfdbm: I don't recall your nick.
dbmdbm= don't bother me
rindolfdon't be mean.
dbm;)
Zuuor: do bother me
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineYour Emacs is so fat
Published2009-12-14

Why XSLT is so evil?

Display

→xmlerhas joined ##programming
xmlerHi
xmlerHow can I do <a href="$variable">blah</a> in XSLT?
rindolfxmler: you can use <xsl:attribute>
rindolfxmler: or use ${...}
rindolfxmler: have you read the Zvon XSLT tutorial?
xmlerrindolf: I've read various resources; perhaps it's the fault of XML::XSLT on CPAN
rindolfxmler: use XML::LibXSLT instead.
rindolfIt's faster and better.
Zuu<insert mean statement about XSLT>
Zuu:)
rindolf"XSLT is the work of Satan"
rindolf"It's the worst thing since non-sliced bread."
ZuuHahaha :D
rindolf"Mothers used to tell their children about XSLT to scare them."
xmlerHaha
ZuuThat last one is good
xmlerXSLT seems pretty cool
Zuuxmler, no no, that's not mean
Zuuyou're doing it wrong
Zuu:P
xmlerXSLT is too cool to be mean to :p
ZuuHehe
rindolf"XSLT is the number one cause of programmers' suicides since Visual Basic 1.0"
tommy_the-dragonlol
Zuu:>
ZuuI could believe in that
rindolf"The X in XSLT stands for eXtermination."
rindolf"XSLT makes the baby jesus cry."
rindolf"The only things worse than XSLT are Excel and sugarless tea."
tommy_the-dragonrofl
* Zuukinda likes Excel
rindolfZuu: yes, it was a joke.
ZuuNoooh!
Zuuthey are all true!
rindolfNow I'm out of ideas.
Zuui haven’t even had a single idea yet..
rindolf"XSLT is what Chuck Norris has nightmares of."
ZuuWhoah!
Zuuwait.. that would somehow make XSLT cooler than Chuck Norris...
ZuuChuck Norris don't have mightmares
rindolf"Confucius e says: 'XSLT made me realise humanity was hopeless."
Zuu"Even APL wont make friends with XSLT"
Zuuyay, i maded one!
rindolf"God considered using XSLT as the tenth plague of Egypt, but thought it was too evil."
rindolfZuu: :-)
ZuuHaha :D
Zuuthat plague one is awesome
rindolf"In Soviet Russia, XSLT codes you. Badly!"
rindolf"Satan condemned Hitler for a million years of writing XSLT"
rindolfOK, back to work.
rindolfC - not XSLT.
Zuu:)
rindolf"The KGB used to torture their victims by having them look at scrolling XSLT code"
xmlerrindolf: lol, love the KGB + XSLT one
xmlerrindolf: by the way, what's with the XSLT hate by the way, is it some kind of meme? :p
* Zuugives xmler an XSLT interpreter written in XSLT
Jck_trueI wanna make ASM code from XSLT
rindolf"My name is Inigo Montoya. You forced my father to write XSLT. Prepare to die! And be thankful I don't force you to write XSLT."
xmlerAh for gawd's sake. Can't install XML::LibXML, it says I don't have libxml2 (I do)
rindolfxmler: do you have the -devel package?
rindolfxmler: what is your distro?
rindolfOS distro I mean.
xmlerrindolf: Debian 4.0
xmlerOoh, perhaps I don't actually
rindolfxmler: OK, then apt-get install libxml-libxslt-perl
* Zuuhave to go o/
rindolfxmler: maybe we should discuss it on #perl?
rindolfZuu: bye
rindolfZuu: and beware of stray XSLT code.
ZuuI will :P
rindolfZuu: OK.
xmlerrindolf: sure, uno memento :)
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineChuck Norris is out! XSLT is in!
Published2009-12-14

Introducing dazjorz to Zuu

Display

dazjorzrindolf!
dazjorzareth thou here?
rindolfHi dazjorz
dazjorz:)
rindolfdazjorz: yes, I are here.
dazjorzisn't it kind of weird to have a programming channel when there are language specific channels around?
ZuuMuhah!
rindolfdazjorz: this is about programming in general.
rindolfAt least theoretically.
rindolfAnd VB.NET questions.
joeyadamsWell, ##programming is a good place to ask C questions and actually get helpful answers :)
dazjorzrindolf: did you intentionally make it look like VB.NET is not programming?
rindolfdazjorz: meet Zuu - he's into Windows and D and stuff.
dazjorz!
rindolfdazjorz: no.
rindolfdazjorz: VB.NET is programming.
dazjorzhey Zuu, I'm dazjorz, I'm into Linux and c and stuff.
rindolfBut it has its own channel.
Zuu:>
dazjorzrindolf: I've been thinking about changing nicks
rindolfdazjorz: ah. so did I.
* Zuuis into everything sane, except the boring stuff
rindolfdazjorz: to what?
dazjorzrindolf: my current one is waaaay too lame, but "sjors" is probably too generic
rindolfdazjorz: I like dazjorz
dazjorzrindolf: I don't, because when people see my name is sjors, da zjorz is just too lame to bear
dazjorzrindolf: I was thinking about sjors, or some three-letter abbreviation of my name, sjg or so
Zuuhow about.... 'carrot' ?
dazjorzI think I do prefer dazjorz over carrot
Zuuno worries, i promise not to stuff you up rindolf's tomato nose
Zuuhum :<
dazjorzZuu: when I first read your nick on Shlomi's site five minutes ago, I asked him whether you were a mix between Zorix and Buu
dazjorzdo you know the two?
rindolfZoffix and buu.
Zuunope
dazjorzuh Zoffix yeah
dazjorzZuu: okay, well, you don't know them, but believe me, I'm glad you're not a mix of the two, that would be horrible :P
ZuuI'm a mix of much worse personalities I'm sure
Zuumost of them just happen to cancel each other out
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineIntroducing dazjorz to Zuu
Published2009-12-14

Reindeers, Tomatoes and Nicks

Display

rindolfdazjorz: I considered switching my default nick to "shlomif", because that's how most people know me.
dazjorzrindolf: yeah, it's your alternative nick now right?
rindolfdazjorz: but then XChat 2 reverted to the old nick and I was too lazy.
unrealYou seem to have many, well, stupid friends, rindolf :P
rindolfdazjorz: yes, I have it registered.
rindolfunreal: stupid?
Zuurindolf, noo! what to do about the tomato then? fish don't have big tomato noses!
rindolfZuu: fish?
rindolfZuu: I'll give you a tomato.
Zuugood question
rindolfI'll give you the tomato back.
Zuuwhere do i get fish from
Zuuno no, keep it :D
rindolfZuu: my last name is Fish.
* tommy_the-dragonslaps Zuu with a fish
tommy_the-dragonthere ya go
dazjorzrindolf: I just registered 'sjors'
* rindolfgives a fish to Zuu
dazjorzrindolf: as a nick.
Zuurindolf, that is just absurd, a reindeer with 'fish' as surname...
Zuuyour parents must have hated you
rindolfOpen source: "everyone contributes a fish, and in exchange everyone gets their own ocean."
rindolfdazjorz: ah, cool.
Zuutommy_the-dragon, does dragons eat other animals, like fish?
unrealOcean == Big Momma's Bath?
rindolfZuu: I'm not a reindeer - I just play one on T.V.
tommy_the-dragonnot fish...
tommy_the-dragonjust reindeers
Zuutommy_the-dragon, what about fake TV reindeers ?
ZuuNice :D
rindolfunreal: no, the whole enchilada.
rindolftommy_the-dragon: LOL.
tommy_the-dragonand enchiladas
dazjorzrindolf: I know someone whose nick is Stonehead, he made his three-letter acronym stn, but usually it's letters from the first name
dazjorzuh
dazjorzthe full name
dazjorzyours could be shf for example, and everybody would know "hey, that's Shlomi"
dazjorzbut I'm at most sg, so I need to borrow another letter somewhere, or make it daz or just sjors
* dazjorzthinks
tommy_the-dragonmy cat eats flies...
rindolfdazjorz: I hate these three letter acronyms.
ZuuShlomi really sounds like some dish made of reindeer
tommy_the-dragonbut he's lucky because i don't eat cats
rindolfZuu: heh.
unrealheh
rindolftommy_the-dragon: I didn't know dragons had cats.
dazjorzwhat's the name of the red-nosed reindeer again?
Zuuit sounds edible at least
dazjorzoh rudolf :)
rindolfdazjorz: Randolph.
dazjorzoh
unrealI used to have a friend whose nick was "crap"
rindolfunreal: wow.
dazjorz<someguy> crap, someone stole my bicycle
dazjorz<crap> OK?
rindolfdazjorz: heh.
dazjorzrindolf: why don't you like the three-letter acronyms?
rindolfdazjorz: often too confusing.
rindolfdazjorz: and two easy to mistype.
rindolfdazjorz: and not too memorable.
unrealLIS.
dazjorzthree easy to mistype, I think
rindolfAnd often hard to pronounce.
dazjorzmaybe I'll just go with sjors
rindolftoo easy. Freudian.
rindolfdazjorz: yes, I think that's a good idea.
unreal(Lies, I say!)
dazjorzhehe, rindolf++ # Freudian
Zuuor you could pick something girly and hope people will treat you nicer :)
rindolfdazjorz: have you played with the farnsworth bot yet?
rindolfZuu: RinGirl
rindolfThough nicks with "Girl " in them tend to draw too much attention.
Zuunah, it cant contain 'girl' that just seems fake
dazjorzrindolf: I have
dazjorzrindolf: remind me to fix knotify, khtml, and quassel :(
rindolfdazjorz: nice.
rindolfdazjorz: using MemoServ?
dazjorzrindolf: the bugs annoy me, a lot, but I never get around to actually trying to fix them
rindolfZuu: maybe I should call myself "Shlomi". Americans will think I'm a girl.
Zuuyeah, it kinda have a girlish sound to it
dazjorzrindolf: call yourself "Shloma", Dutch people will think you're over sixty and female
rindolfdazjorz: heh.
dazjorzlet me rephrase that
dazjorzDutch people will think you're female... and over sixty
dazjorz(oma = grandma)
rindolfdazjorz: ah.
unrealkloot.
rindolfIn Hebrew nouns that end with "ah" tend to be feminine.
dazjorzShlomah?
rindolfSeriously now, if I change my nick it will be to shlomif.
dazjorzlet's change our nicks at the same time
rindolfWell, in Shlomi's case it would be Shlomith.
dazjorzI will be sjors, you will be shlomif
rindolfdazjorz: OK.
* rindolfis now known as shlomif
dazjorzshit, now I have to
Zuuwhat does "shlomif" even mean ?
* dazjorzis now known as sjors
sjorsZuu: Shlomi = his first name, f = the first letter of his last name
shlomifsjors: hi.
shlomifZuu: Shlomi Fish.
sjorshi shlomif
shlomifHi sjors
tommy_the-dragonwhere does rindolf come into it?
shlomifsjors: my nick is longer than yours.
Zuuoh lol, and i just said his name sound girly :P
* Zuupat pats shlomif ^^
shlomiftommy_the-dragon: Rindolf was a dwarven warrior I played in AD&D.
tommy_the-dragonahh OK
* shlomifgives Zuu his tomato back.
Zuu:<
shlomifSince I'm no longer a reindeer.
sjorsshlomif: that's just to compensate against something you have that's way shorter than mine
shlomifsjors: LOL.
shlomifsjors++
ZuuErhmm.. shlomif! how come there's this big hole in it?
tommy_the-dragonsorry...
tommy_the-dragonmy bad
ZuuHehe
* shlomifdoesn't like raw tomatoes.
shlomifBut I eat them with pasta, etc.
shlomifOr as meat sauce.
Zuuor in sandwiches
shlomifsjors: anyway, welcome to ##programming
Zuuor on reindeer nose
shlomifsjors: I'll probably revert to "rindolf" after next disconnect.
shlomifZuu: after you cook the entire reindeer.
* shlomifis a reindeer cannibal.
shlomifWell, rindolf is.
Zuuyes, but he ran away
shlomifI also like dried and olive oiled tomatoes.
sjorsshlomif: I just changed my clients' settings to reconnect as sjors, too
shlomifWell, I think I'll go to sleep.
shlomifsjors: ah.
sjorsshlomif: it'll probably take a while to "adapt" to sjors instead of dazjorz
shlomifsjors: well, enjoy your new nick.
sjorsand I still have dazjorz.com, and not sjors.anything
* Zuutugs shlomif in
sjorsthanks ;)
shlomifZuu: thanks.
* Zuuquickly squeezes a fresh tomato onto shlomif's nose
sjorsshlomif: sjors.biz and sjors.mobi at most
* shlomifdoesn't have rindolf.{com,org,net} etc.
shlomifsjors: maybe sjors.in
shlomifI got a shlom.in
sjorssjors.indahou.se
shlomifsjors: heh.
sjorssjors.ac, sjors.ag, sjors.am, sjors.at
sjorshehe sjors.me
sjorssjors.pl, too bad i don't really do perl any more
shlomifsjors: there's also .sh
sjorssjors.sh, too bad I don't really do shell script a lot
shlomifOr .im
sjorssjors.tv, too bad I don't really watch..
tommy_the-dragondo you own a mobile?
shlomif.tv are pretty costly.
sjorsmeh I don't like sjors. anyway, so I'll just keep dazjorz for everything
tommy_the-dragonyeah what's with that (the price of .tv)?
shlomiftommy_the-dragon: it's the foundation of the economy of Tuvalu.
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineReindeers, Tomatoes and Normalising Nicks
Published2009-12-14

SNAFU Cake

Display

* rindolftries to think what can cause the KDE 4 SNAFU on his user.
rindolfAnd hopefully to avoid bisecting the KDE 4 config tree.
Zuusnafu... that wounds like a delicious cake :D
Zuu*sounds
rindolfZuu: Situation Normal - All F****ed up.
Zuu:/
* Zuugives the snafu cake to Dmage :D
ZuuDmage, just eat the cake already
DmageZuu, are you hate my English? ;)
Zuui hate your non-English
Black_PhoenixI English your hate
DmagexD
ZuuDmage, but i don't hate you! :D
Black_Phoenixand now I can do that
DmageZuu, learn Russian then! :)
ZuuHehe
ZuuDmage, i think you'd hate my Russian far more than i would ever hate your English
rindolfSpasiva.
DmagexD
Dmagelearn 'Eto huinya!'
* Zuusteals the snafu cake back from Dmage and gives it to rindolf instead
Dmageand apply everywhere
* rindolfeats the SNAFU cake
Zuu:D
* rindolfeats Zuu's Danish too.
ZuuNoooh!
* rindolfloves Zuu's Danish.
rindolfYum yum.
Zuutis mine!
ZuuMy daaaanish :'(
rindolfMy precioussssssssss!
Zuutis gone :<
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineSNAFU Cake
Published2009-12-14

What is Qantor?

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rindolfWhat should I do now?
rindolfI'll work on Text-Qantor.
rindolfIt's so great not to have a job.
Zuuyeah, if someone else pays for the food it sure is :D
Zuualso, i don't really understand much of what you just told me :P
* Zuuputs a stick into the Text-Qantor
rindolfZuu: Qantor == Qantor ain't no TeX/Troff oh really.
rindolfIt's a typesetting system I'm working on.
* Zuuhates the name
Zuuit makes me kinda mad actually :/
rindolfZuu: :-)
rindolfZuu: maybe it will grow on you.
rindolfZuu: some people I know named a browser suckass.
Zuu:(
rindolfI refused to work on it.
Zuusee that's a name!
rindolfZuu: heh.
Zuui didn't mean that BTW :)
Zuusuckass is kinda... unkind
rindolfOK, now I should write an http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/facts/XSLT/ transformation.
rindolfI'll start from something I already have.
ZuuBut the "X ain't no <something related>" is just a lame naming convention IMHO
Zuuyeah, work on some XSLT facts :D
rindolfZuu: just call it Qantor then.
rindolfWithout the mnemonics.
Zuubut anyone interested will learn that it's an abbreviation
Zuujust by the fact that it's recursive makes me want to kill myself a little bit more :P
rindolfZuu: do me a break and kill yourself.
Zuu:>
rindolfLess Zuus - more grass for evil reindeers like me to feed on.
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineWhat is Qantor?
Published2009-12-14

Turing Hard

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rindolfPythack now was able to get the fc-solve test suite up and running.
Zuueh?!
* Zuusolves rindolf
rindolfZuu: http://fc-solve.berlios.de/
rindolfZuu: I am not solvable.
rindolfI am Turing hard.
Zuu:S
* Zuunever heard of anything called 'turing hard'
joeyadamslol. Zuu's probabilistic, so maybe he can solve you.
Zuubut i guess i have now
joeyadamsFormal definition of Turing hard: blah blah blah hard blah blah Turing blah.
ZuuHahahaha :D
joeyadamsWikipedia: Given a set X in P(N), a set A in N is called Turing hard for X if X <=_T A for all X in X. If additionally A is in X, then A is called Turing complete for X.
joeyadamsDoes that clarify?
joeyadams(see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_reduction for the actual math symbols)
* joeyadamsassumes you get the point
Zuuyeah, i think i'll have to put significant time into that, for me to comprehend it :)
Zuubut maybe i will, some day :P
joeyadamsMy point is that people like to use mumbo jumbo to describe more concise mumbo jumbo.
joeyadamsE.g. A problem is NP-hard if it is at least as hard as all the problems in NP.
Zuui understand enough of it, to be fairly confident that rindolf being turing hard, will not say much about his ability to be solved
joeyadamsI'm guessing Turing-hard means you can't solve a problem with a Turing machine (e.g. the halting problem)
joeyadams(substitute Turing machine with "your computer" :) )
Zuuno, turing hard has something to do with expressiveness
joeyadamsokay, Zuu > joeyadams, so I can't help you :)
* Zuutickles joeyadams ^^
joeyadamsA delicious apple is any fruit ∈ apple that is at least as tasty as any other fruit ∈ apple.
joeyadamsIn other words, apples are in the set of recursively nommable fruits.
rindolfjoeyadams: what's up?
joeyadamsI'm babbling.
rindolfjoeyadams: Apple is one of my least favourite fruits.
* Zuuwatches a number of apples that recursively NOM's each other
rindolfIt tends to be too commonplace.
rindolfOr simpleton.
joeyadamswhoops, my logic is incorrect
joeyadamsOnly delicious apples are ∈ the nommable fruits.
joeyadams(recursively is just a word you throw in to sound smart)
* ZuuNOMs joeyadams :>
rindolfjoeyadams: a friend of one of my sisters said that Apple is his favourite fruit.
rindolfTa-zuu!
* joeyadamshas quit (Read error: 104 (Connection nommed by peer))
Zuuyeah, unfortunately a lot of people throw with a lot of words to sound smart :/
Zuumy favourite fruit is a recursive banana!
joeyadamsalthough it certainly helps to use complex terminology to solve complex problems. As Aristophanes said, "High thoughts must have high language."
Zuu.. along with immutable polymorphic pears
joeyadamsZuu> I guess you have to peel it indefinitely?
joeyadamslol
ZuuHahah, yeah :P
joeyadamsI tend to eat bananas in deterministic polynomial time.
Zuui eat them in linear time, but uses exponential space
joeyadamslol
rindolfHeh.
joeyadamseww
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineTuring Hard
Published2009-12-14

The Ultimate ##programming Showdown

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→ecerehas joined ##programming
ljuwaidahyo ecere!!
Zuuyay, life :)
* Zuutickles ljuwaidah
* ljuwaidahpunches Zuu in the face
* Zuustarts crying :'(
rindolfFight!
rindolfFight! Fight!
* Zuuruns home to mommy
rindolfLet's get ready to rumble!!!
* ljuwaidahpunches rindolf in the face
ljuwaidahfor encouraging the fight, that is
Zuuhehe
* rindolfuses his Evil Antlers to summon a squadron of Chuck Norrises.
Zuuoh my!
* rindolfunleashes the Chuck Norrises upon ljuwaidah
* ljuwaidahuses his anti-chuck-norris spell
Zuuthose antlers must be the most evil thing in the entire universe
Zuu*antlers
rindolfljuwaidah: your spell only works on one chuck norris at a day.
rindolfAnd I have 119 more.
rindolfFinish him!
Zuui wonder what will happen if one Chuck Norris accidentally punches another
ljuwaidahrindolf: then lemme use my duplication spell to make more of myself so THEY can use the spell
rindolfljuwaidah: heh.
rindolfljuwaidah++
ljuwaidahthanks :D
rindolfljuwaidah: two can play this game.
* rindolfruns his recursive copying spell making lots of Evil rindolf reindeers exponentially.
rindolfLike Bacteria.
ljuwaidahdarn! i didn't see that coming
ljuwaidahbut you also forgot that if _I_ can duplicate myself then so can my duplicates B-)
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineThe Ultimate ##programming Showdown
Published2009-12-14

ispy Emulating a Clueless Newbie

Display

→ispy_has joined ##programming
ispy_hi gang.
ispy_I'm a n00b programmer and think I should learn A and B before C, right?
std_orbispy_: General understanding should come before that.
ispy_std_orb: I have no idea what I'm doing...
std_orbispy_: I can see that
* ispy_kicks the dirt...
tommy_the-dragonI've been meaning to get into it
ispy_Is C like JavaScript?
ispy_Same thing right?
tommy_the-dragonispy_: lol
rindolfispy_: Perl is more like C than JS is.
ispy_rindolf: Never heard of Perl... I should Google that.
rindolfispy_: use Bing search instead.
rindolfOr Altavista.
Terminusrindolf: i see.
ispy_rindolf, std_orb, tommy_the-dragon ... thanks for the pointers :)
rindolfispy_: you should learn Intercal, it's the most expressive language possible.
ispy_rindolf: Sounds exciting!
TerminusIntercal... lol!
ispy_haha
ispy_OK OK OK... I can't continue this... I'm practically laughing my ass off at my desk.
rindolf:-)
ispy_hehe
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineEmulating a Clueless Newbie
Published2009-12-14

What kind of animal is Zuu?

Display

ZuuHai all
rindolfZuu: hai hai.
rindolfZuu: what's up , kit?
rindolfZuu: or what are you , I forgot?
ZuuHai rindolf :D
rindolfI am a reindeer.
rindolfBut also a Llama.
rindolfAnd a cat.
ZuuI'm a Zuu
rindolfAnd a fish naturally.
rindolfZuu: ah , OK.
Zuu:D
* rindolfcreates a Zoo of Zuus
Zuu^^
rindolfAre you the master Zuu?
rindolfLike Q is the master of the Q's in Star Trek?
Zuui think I'm the only Zuu
rindolfOh, one of a kind.
ZuuWhich is kinda sad really :(
ZuuWho am i supposed to mate with?
rindolfReminds me of http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Blue-Rabbit-Log/ideas.xhtml
rindolfThough I need to add that part.
rindolfLet me do it now.
Zuuwhatever webserver you use, it doesn't provide the right mimetype... At least IE 8 don't attempt to render the document
rindolfZuu: you cannot using IE 8
rindolfZuu: you need Firefox.
rindolfZuu: it's application/xml+xhtml
rindolfOr Opera.
Zuuwell, it indeed is the right mimetype... stupid IE
Zuuwell, my FF crashed, so i just use IE when that happens
rindolfZuu: ah.
rindolfFF crashed?
rindolfHow strange.
rindolfMaybe you have a bad plugin.
ZuuIt does that around 6 times a day
rindolfNot an extension - a plugin.
rindolfAh, really.
rindolfSomething is wrong in the Zuuniverse.
rindolfOr Zuumputer.
Zuunah, i suspect one of the tabs are just doing some strange stuff
Zuumemory leaking javascript ro something like that
Zuuit is kinda starting to annoy me
Zuubut with 90 - 120 tabs, it would take quite a while to find out what tab it is
Zuuyou might consider starting your articles, or whatever this is, with an introduction telling what it's about
rindolfZuu: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Blue-Rabbit-Log/ideas.xhtml#the-angry-demon
rindolfZuu: it's not an article - these are random ideas for a screenplay.
rindolfZuu: but I'll write an intro.
Zuustart the page with "Here are some of my random ideas for a screen play I'm writing:"
Zuuat LEAST!
Zuuyou cant just jump right into something without giving _any_ indication ow what the reader can expect
Zuuit simply doesn't make any sense as it is now
Zuuyou could just as well have posted a log of ljuwaidah talking :P
rindolfZuu: thanks.
Zuu:)
rindolfZuu: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Blue-Rabbit-Log/ideas.xhtml#intro
rindolfInteractive Web!
Zuui think you have forgotten to define the #intro anchor
rindolfZuu: reload.
rindolfZuu: it's there.
Zuuhah, caches... :P
Zuu:D
rindolfPesky things.
rindolfEvil reindeers don't like caches.
rindolfNeither do cats.
rindolfI'm an evil reindeer but a good cat.
ZuuHehe
rindolfDon't know how it works.
rindolfI guess good and evil are relative.
rindolfOr actually I wore a helmet of alignment change.
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineWhat kind of animal is a Zuu?
Published2009-12-14

Meaning of the Zuu species

Display

ZuuHi rindolf :)
rindolfHi Zuu
rindolfZuu: I've been thinking that maybe you can find some corresponding Zuus of the appropriate sex in a different dimension.
Zuuhmmm... interesting!
rindolfZuu: are you a heterosexual Zuu or a homosexual one?
ZuuI'm not sure what sex I am.
rindolfZuu: ah.
Zuu:P
rindolfZuu: you can look.
rindolfZuu: in the mirror or something.
rindolfZuu: don't you have obligatory genders in Danish/
rindolf?
rindolfLike in German, French, etc.
rindolfOr Hebrew and Arabic.
Zuuobligatory genders?
Zuuyou mean, the genders in linguistics?
* Zuunever understood those
Zuubut Danish have two i believe, and if i remember correctly there is female and 'none'
rindolfZuu: yes, genders in linguistics.
Zuui don't remember what which is which though :P
rindolfLike in Hebrew "Haben Halakh lagan" - the boy went to the garden. "Habath Halkha lagan" - "The girl went to the garden"
c_sphereThat almost sounds like allah akbar
Zuurindolf, no we don't distinct between the genders of the subject in the danish language
Zuuour nouns have genders though
c_spherezuu-nina?
Zuulike 'house' is one gender and 'car' is another
rindolfZuu: of course the question is - what language do Zuus speak natively?
c_sphererindolf: Of course, Zuu speaks Zuu!
rindolfZuuish?
c_sphereThe Zulu population also does not speak Zuluish, just Zulu.
Zuuso if you want to say 'the house' its 'huse_t_' and if you want to say 'the car' its 'bile_n_'
rindolfc_sphere: Arnavoth (sounds like an Aztec god) is "Hares" (the Rabbit-like mammal) in Hebrew.
rindolfZuu: can you understand Swedish?
Zuurindolf, some :)
rindolfZuu: ah.
Zuuswedish branched from danish AFAIK
Zuusame with norwegian
Zuuyes, Zuu's speak Zuuish natively :P
* rindolfis listening to Hans Zimmer - Jack Sparrow
rindolfZuu: ah.
ZuuZuuish has few words, all of which is based on words about cake from other languages :P
Zuuc_sphere, are you by any chance related to s_cube ?
rindolfZuu: ah, what do you use the Hebrew word "עוגיה" (= `ugiyah, cookie) for?
rindolf"Chocolate chip pie crust marmalade marzipan cookie yum yum!"
Zuui use it for cookies baked from a hebrew recipe :P
rindolfWhat does it mean in Zuuish?
Zuuit's hard to really say something in Zuuish... al you can really do is say something equivalent to "COOKIES!!"
Zuuor "YAY CAKE!"
Zuubasically, you can only express excitement over different kinds of cakes :P
rindolfZuu: do Zuus eat anything except cakes or cookies?
ZuuThere was this one time...
Zuuwait.. no. That was someone else.
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineWhat can a Zuu do?
Published2009-12-14

##programming about Real Programmers

Display

rindolfChekov: I disagree with what ESR says in TAOUP that you shouldn't apply factor optimisations. I think they can make a very large difference.
rindolfChekov: he seems to imply you should wait until computers are fast enough.
rindolfProblem is people don't want to upgrade and if a competing program (maybe a fork ) is much faster, then some of them will switch.
rindolfPrograms being speedy is one thing that makes me happy.
rindolfI love all the work the KDE people did in making KDE-4.6.0 fast.
vanguardrindolf: awesome blog link!
rindolfAnd I enjoy the fact that Pidgin is much faster than Kopete (and also less buggy).
rindolfI've used Kopete for far too long.
osoleverindolf: switch to Irssi and Bitlbee! :D
rindolfvanguard: yes.
rindolfvanguard: though they failed on Google Wave.
rindolfosoleve: nah, I like Pidgin.
rindolfosoleve: it's fast enough for me.
rindolfosoleve: and I also prefer XChat.
osolevebut is it nerdy enough?
rindolfosoleve: I'm not trying to be a Ubergeek.
rindolfosoleve: real men use Xmonad!
vanguardHey, it is not Uber but Über ... :D
rindolfreal programmers use butterflies.
Chekovreal programmers are Tao
osolevereal programmers flip bits by hand
Chekovreal programmers speak assembly
rindolfChuck Norris is a real programmer who implements the most optimised machines for solving a problem out of physical atoms.
vanguardreal programmers use a nice editor and a programming language and get done in less than O(N!)
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineReal Programmers
Published2011-03-19

Semicolons

Display

wes_tell me how can u print a message without using a semicolon in the printg statement
rindolfwes_: in C?
rindolfwes_: do you mean the printf(...) statement?
wes_yes
rindolfwes_: you cannot without using macros I think.
rindolfwes_: and don't use macros for that.
wes_i mean without using a semicolon at the printf statement but you have to use printf only
rindolfwes_: why would you want to do that?
rindolfwes_: what do you have against semicolons?
rindolfSome of my best friends are semicolons.
lulzfish_4semicolons got me where I am today man
rindolfhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semicolon
rindolflulzfish_4: heh.
rindolf"I owe it all to semicolons."
amigojapanhey rindolf lulzfish_4
rindolfHi amigojapan
rindolfamigojapan: what's up?
* rindolfgives a semicolon to amigojapan
* amigojapanreturns a whitespace to rindolf
rindolfamigojapan: that's not fair trade.
rindolfBut I'll treasure the whitespace.
amigojapanrindolf: a whitespace is just as valuable as a semicolon in python :)
rindolfamigojapan: aren't semicolons optional in Py?
amigojapanrindolf: I think they are
amigojapanrindolf: actually, a whitespace can be as valuable as 2 curly braces :)
rindolfamigojapan: heh.
rindolfamigojapan: you need 4 spaces to distinguish stuff properly.
amigojapanrindolf: one thing I never got about python is why they need the : after if and for statements....
* PythonSnakegives a colon to rindolf
PythonSnake:)
amigojapanrindolf: actually, I prefer using tabs to 4 spaces...
rindolfPythonSnake: thanks for the colon.
PythonSnakerindolf: lol
rindolfPythonSnake: I'll give you a « and a » in exchange.
PythonSnakelol
amigojapanrindolf: the fact that you don't have a rule to how much white space you must use to indent in python, I think is a bad thing...
* PythonSnakefinds a interrobang
PythonSnake:)
amigojapanrindolf: if it is 4 spaces then fine, but make it a rule so it is consistent
GeDaMo
PythonSnakelol
PythonSnake
PythonSnake
PythonSnake‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡
rindolf¿
PythonSnake₳ ฿ ₵ ¢ ₡ ₢ ₠ $ ₫ ৳ ₯ € ƒ ₣ ₲ ₴ ₭ ℳ ₥ ₦ ₧ ₱ ₰
PythonSnake:)
amigojapanrindolf: oh, now you are speaking spanish
rindolfamigojapan: :-)
PythonSnakeall: :)
rindolf¡I am!
amigojapanうるさいよ 文字化け
PythonSnakeJag förvrängd bullriga
PythonSnakeאיך גאַרבאַלד טומלדיק
PythonSnake:)
amigojapanah, hebrew
amigojapanhir something....
PythonSnakeº, ª
amigojapanman, I forgot how to read hebrew
rindolfamigojapan: איך גאַרבאַלד טומלדיק seems like Yiddish.
amigojapanrindolf: ah, OK.... can you change it into roman letters for me?
rindolfamigojapan: Ich Garbald Tomldiq.
amigojapanich would be I
amigojapanI think I only know curse words in Yiddish :P
PythonSnakeich bin masaru
lulzfish_4ich bin ein berlinner
* rindolfis eating watermelon.
amigojapanrindolf: save a piece for me :)
rindolfamigojapan: I'll save a semicolon for you.
PiX3Lrindolf: For me too. :)
amigojapanrindolf: a semicolon looks a lot like two pits of a watermelon
* amigojapansteals PiX3L 's piece
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineGive Your Friend a Semicolon Today
Published2011-06-12

Calculator

Display

Endiannesvinleod, Yes, he wants to find a solution which yields a point 10 units away, your solution yields a point, exactly 7.66044 units away
Endiannesvinleod, Oh wait
Endiannesvinleod, I'm an idiot, didn't factor out cos
Endiannesvinleod, Yes you're right.
* Endianneskicks calculator
vinleodhehe, I was in the process of writing a python script to prove it.
* speedrunnerG55picks up Endiannes's calculator
speedrunnerG55NEVER KICK YOUR CALCULATOR
CryWolfKicking your calculator is a sin
EndiannesAt least its not a cos.
vinleodbut you should at least get a tan
rindolfHeh.
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineCalculator
Published2011-09-06

The Universal Die

Display

monsterwizardOk so I know javascript, PHP, perl in some detail. However, I want to become good at one. I was thinking Perl?
rindolfmonsterwizard: roll a die.
monsterwizardrindolf the die showed a 7 :S
rindolfmonsterwizard: heh.
hmmlol
rindolfmonsterwizard: strange die.
hmmthrow away the die
* rindolfthrows the die at hmm
* hmmcatches
rindolfdie, die, die!
* hmmwants to live
rindolfhmm: but the die wants to die.
rindolfTake it out of its misery.
hmmwho knows, even the die isn't ready to die
rindolfhmm: dice should be diced.
rindolfdice on ice.
hmmyeah, go dice the dice
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineThe Universal Die
Published2011-11-17

I Wanna Be a Hacker

Display

* hackerhackingcan(~hackingca@117.202.19.189) has joined ##programming
hackerhackingcanHi friends
hackerhackingcanI am also new to hacking
rindolfhackerhackingcan: hi.
rindolfhackerhackingcan: I hope you mean software development - not computer intrusion.
hackerhackingcanwhat means intrusion?
rindolfhackerhackingcan: it means breaking into other people's systems.
hackerhackingcanI want to hack the internet websites like Google and facebook
rindolfhackerhackingcan: hack?
hackerhackingcancan you help please?
rindolfhackerhackingcan: hack into?
hackerhackingcanyes I am new but I will try and learn
hackerhackingcanbut can you help me rindolf?
rindolfhackerhackingcan: we won't help you break into systems.
pkkmwut? hack into Google?
rindolfhackerhackingcan: with what?
hackerhackingcanhack into facebook Google and internet
rindolfhackerhackingcan: we build systems - not break them.
hackerhackingcanplease?
rindolfhackerhackingcan: http://catb.org/~esr/writings/unix-koans/script-kiddie.html
rindolfhackerhackingcan: if you want to learn how to program, we can help you.
rindolfhackerhackingcan: but trying to break into computer systems will only get you in trouble.
hackerhackingcanI can do programming in html
rindolfhackerhackingcan: HTML is not a programming language.
hackerhackingcanis that enough for hacking?
vinleodhackerhackingcan: There's no such things as programming in HTML.
hackerhackingcanI can also do hacks in cmd
vinleodAh, a script kiddie.
hackerhackingcanwhat you mean by script kiddie?
hackerhackingcanOK now I know
hackerhackingcanyou all don't want other people to know about hacking
hackerhackingcanso you say like this
rindolfhackerhackingcan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Script_kiddie
hackerhackingcanso you abused me by calling me script kiddie?
hackerhackingcanWhen I become a good hacker I will hack you also
vinleodhackerhackingcan: Good luck with that. bye bye.
rindolfhackerhackingcan: OK, you have been warned.
hackerhackingcanwhy warn?
rindolfhackerhackingcan: try hacking into the IP address 127.0.0.1
vinleodhackerhackingcan: I bet you can't log into that computer and delete all of its files.
luke_chackerhackingscan: After that, try to DDOS 192.168.1.1
hackerhackingcanis 127.0.0.1 your ip?
Ethelimwhy'd you give him my IP ffs?
Ethelimdon't try it, you wouldn't get in anyway. I have it locked down tightly
vinleodhackerhackingcan: So, here's the situation. We don't condone illegal activity. We don't suggest that people attempt illegal activity. We don't like people who do illegal activity. We a programmers. We like to write programs. We like to solve interesting problems. We like to solve interesting puzzles.
rindolfhackerhackingcan: if you haven't noticed, I've become op.
rindolfhackerhackingcan: and I can /kick you and /kickban you.
vinleodhackerhackingcan: Now, if you'd like be a good, productive member of society and learn to program, we can help with that, but we won't spoon feed you either.
hackerhackingcanhahah whose is this ip 192.168.1.1? Your password is admin haha
Ethelimis he for real?
vinleodEthelim: I doubt it.
hackerhackingcan192.168.1.1 I am changing your password then call me kid
rindolfEthelim: he seems like a bad troll.
rindolfBut an amusing one.
jrslepakrindolf: depends on how many times you've heard the joke in the recent past
Ethelimdude, you wouldn't get in there. And even if you did all you'd be able to do is reset the guy's connection
hackerhackingcanI will reset it
* Ethelimwaits for "someone's" closed connection
mst"Quit: Leaving"
vinleodI saw that coming a mile away/
JabbaWokieelol
mstnot an actual fell-off-the-internet
mstreasonable exit though
mstoh, and now he's back with a new nick
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineFrom HTML to Hacking Google in Ten Easy Steps
Published2012-02-13

/dev/null is webscale.

Display

oilioso what the point of hashes, can't we just use void pointers to key/value ?
rindolfoilio: hashes as in hash tables?
oilioyes
rindolfoilio: OK.
rindolfoilio: they are one way to efficiently implement the dictionary Abstract Data Type (ADT).
rindolfoilio: a hash table can store more than one key / value pair.
oilioyeah, I read about it in the wikipedia
rindolfoilio: and you can lookup a value based on a key efficiently.
arubinLinear search is good enough for everyone.
oiliorindolf: what if the whole table won’t fit in the memory?
oilioRAM
arubinSwap.
arubinAmazon S3.
imlearningyaccwell if no ram and no swap no allocation
arubinWe have the whole Internet for our tables.
imlearningyaccwell
diminotenask reddit how that worked out
arubinAnd remember, /dev/null is web-scale.
imlearningyaccyea, I store all my data in /dev/null
rindolfoilio: then you'll need to use a more sophisticated (and slower) data structure that can offload to disk.
arubinIt is really fast.
arubinI use the Boost libraries for /dev/null too.
arubinAnd I use async writes to /dev/null.
rindolfarubin: heh.
diminotendon't want to get into resource contention when using /dev/null
* rindolfuses /dev/null for backups.
diminotenonly so much null to go around
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Tagline/dev/null - the ultra-fast solution for all your storage needs.
Published2012-03-30

iSomething

Display

jparktonand ya know. I bet if one distro popped an i in front like iUbunt, iFedora or some jazz about 300 million people would shell out astronomical amounts of money just to have one before anyone else
WinNYMacs are evil.
impulse9iCry
jercosiDerp
jparktoniFail
jparktoniStone
impulse9iQuack
jparktoniFap
Jeayeifap.cum
jparktoniClean
jparktoniBarf
jparktoniReturn
impulse9iI
rindolfjparkton: this reminds me of http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=sharp-perl-paid-version-of-cpan .
rindolfiCanHazCheezburger.
rindolfiSuck.
rindolfiAmSpartacus.
impulse9iAmYourFather
jparktonprolly some new iFag rage
rindolfiAmLame
impulse9iBlame
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineiSuckLessThanJ
Published2012-08-02

Bad Names for Programs

Display

rindolfmarzy: Emacs is not a better vim. They are very different.
rindolfmarzy: I could never get used to Emacs, but have used Vim for many years.
marzyrindolf Emacs + Evil mode makes a better vim
rindolfmarzy: does it support all Vim extensions?
marzyno, that's why its better. it doesn't come with a badly-designed scripting language!!
rindolfmarzy: well, it's still not 100% compatible with vim.
rindolfmarzy: and Evil is an awful name. Sorry.
rindolf"The only thing more evil than XSLT is XSLT edited with Emacs Evil mode." ;-)
marzyi think it's a good name considering emacs and vi(m) rivalry
rindolfmarzy: of course, I've heard worse - coq and coccinelle.
rindolfAnd then there's this guy here who called his programming language Flua which reminds me of Flu and Influenza.
Reactionaryrindolf: lol
dardevelinrindolf, flua IDE is not that bad to be fair (at least the little i tried )
rindolfdardevelin: didn't say *it* was bad - I said the name was bad.
rindolfdardevelin: and I could never get it running here. Problems with Py3 and PyQt.
dardevelinrindolf, oh that sucks... :/
rindolfdardevelin: yes.
dardevelinrindolf, yeah i know you didn't said it was bad, just as gave you my opinion on it as a side note. sorry i should have made it more explicit :)
rindolfOf course, Evil is not as bad a name as SLIME, which is another Emacs mode.
dardevelinrindolf, i had troubles with SLIME once and boy i got tired of fighting with it
rindolfReportedly it was also the nickname of an internal Microsoft version control system called SLM (that is now largely discontinued).
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineA rose by any other name
Published2012-09-05

Selling Open Source Source Code

Display

codesciencejust stumbled across another question. is there an open-source license that prevent anyone from making money off my code?
rindolfcodescience: no there isn't.
rindolfcodescience: it stands against the open source definition.
sstacodescience: that would violate the spirit of what most people understand "open source" to mean
rindolfcodescience: people can sell copies of open source software or services related to it.
codesciencehmmm, i understand
rindolfcodescience: see http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html
sstaI can legally sell you this copy of the Linux kernel...I can charge whatever you are willing to pay. Nothing in the license prevents this
rindolfssta: will you sell it to me for 5,000 USD?
rindolf;-)
sstarindolf: sure
rindolfssta: how about for 3,000 USD?
sstarindolf: tell you what, for $10,000 I'll throw in a free copy of FreeBSD
rindolfssta: wow, sounds like a good deal.
sstarindolf: hmm, 3000 is a bit low, I don't think I could go that cheap
rindolfssta: heh.
rindolfssta: how much are you selling the source code of Apache 2.4 for?
sstarindolf: oh, you can have that for free
rindolfssta: really?
rindolfSucker!
sstarindolf: sure...but the build scripts you have to pay for
rindolfssta: OK.
rindolfssta: would you be willing to exchange the source of the Linux kernel for three copies of jQuery? I will even throw in a few free Dojo plugins.
rindolfssta: he already told us.
sstarindolf: hmm, not sure I want jQuery
sstarindolf: would you happen to have code for a halfway decent RDBMS? I think I could swap for that
rindolfssta: I have the source code for MySQL. Not sure if it's half-decent.
codesciencei run a mysql server. runs good enough for me
sstarindolf: I use MySQL in production quite a lot. It has its flaws, but my use cases never seem to hit them
rindolfssta: OK.
rindolfssta: so will you exchange its source code for the Linux kernel?
sstarindolf: sure
rindolfssta: sounds good.
rindolfssta: you can find the source code of MySQL here - http://www.mysql.com/
sstarindolf: you can get the Linux source from kernel.org
rindolfssta: thanks.
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglinePremium price for free (in either meaning) software.
Published2012-09-16

gcc warning flags

Display

doomroborindolf, I got redirected to your gcc important flags page today and I think you may be missing a few things
rindolfdoomrobo: do you mean the one in the talk?
rindolfdoomrobo: which page are you referring to?
doomroborindolf, lemme see
rindolfhttp://www.shlomifish.org/lecture/W2L/Development/slides/gcc/flags.html - heh, first Google hit for "gcc important flags"
rindolfAt least for me.
doomroboyeah
rindolfdoomrobo: OK, I did not originate that page originally.
doomroboOK
rindolfdoomrobo: and it served a certain purpose as material for slides to the Haifa Linux Club's Welcome to Linux series.
doomrobonice
* jrslepakalways found it funny that -Wall doesn't turn on all of the warnings
jrslepak. o O ( gcc -Wno-really-I-mean-all ... )
rindolf-Wevery-warning-under-the-sun-and-then-some
rindolf-W42
rindolf-Wchuck-norris
doomrobo-Wextra
doomrobo-whipped-cream
jrslepakand of course -WTF
rindolfjrslepak: :-)
rindolf-Worse
rindolf-Worse-is-better
jrslepak-Wat
rindolf-Whoops
doomrobo-S -Illy -Wabbit
rindolfHeh.
jrslepak-Wascally-wabbit
jrslepak(which really needs to be the name of a future Ubuntu release)
doomrobopeople reading this are probably just shaking their heads
jrslepakhey, at least it's not -fallow-undecidable-instances ¬_¬
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Taglinegcc -Whatever
Published2012-09-25

Ultra Compression

Display

tnzrdoes anyone happen to know what std::allocator.allocate() does when you try to allocate 0 bytes? I get a pointer back but I can't tell what it's pointing at and I can't seem to find anything on the web that gives a definitive answer
GeDaMoWhy are you allocating zero bytes?
Billiardtnzr: the same thing it always returns
tnzrGeDaMo: we are implementing our own allocator for an assignment, and when asked what we should do if the user tries to allocate 0 bytes, the prof said to find out what std::allocator does and mimic that
GeDaMohttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/6065814/standard-compliant-custom-allocator
tnzroh snap, thanks GeDaMo
GeDaMo:)
rindolfGeDaMo: zero bytes are enough to hold the Complete Works of Shakespeare.
GeDaMoDepends on how many monkeys you have to decompress it :P
rindolfGeDaMo: heh.
rindolfOf course, I defined a custom decompressor that emits the complete works of Shakespeare on empty input and uses gzip compression otherwise.
rindolfIt's pretty large though.
Billiardredeemed: compress the decompressor using the same algo
Billiarderrr rindolf
rindolfBilliard: OK.
rindolfBilliard: heh.
Billiard0 bytes = a decompressor for the entire works of Shakespeare
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineShakespeare, compressed
Published2012-10-11

Ruby Tuesday

Display

rindolfHi all.
vandoshi
rindolfHello Ruby Tuesday.
famouslygoodbye ruby tuesday
famouslyhello emerald thursdays!
famouslynow i have to choose a precious stone for each day of the week, thanks
famouslythis is going to take half the night
Textmodesapphire Sundays
rindolfPearl Mondays.
rindolfDiamond Saturdays.
famouslyYES!
famouslydiamond saturday definitely
famouslyi thought the same thing
famouslyi guess there's already a gemstone for every month, so this would be seen as kind of a rip-off
famouslymaybe a metal for every day
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineSunny Diamonds
Published2012-11-18

Mac Server

Display

ZepoEither our mac server is sending out little electroshocks through his cage and into my foot or he is just vibrating really strange...
rindolfZepo: a mac server?
Zeporindolf: yeah, we have a Mac server running a VM with an Ubuntu server
rindolfZepo: hmm... interesting.
Zeporindolf: Most people react like "what the...?!"
rindolfZepo: next you'll tell me that you have an HP-UX Desktop.
Zeporindolf: I am not that crazy, my chef made this...thing...
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineUsing the right tool for the job
Published2012-11-21

Maths Education and Languages

Display

cheeseduckrindolf: How long have you got on the book?
Juderindolf, did you check out the new game of thrones episode?
rindolfJude: no, I don't watch Game of Thrones.
rindolfJude: I did see this on Slashdot - http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/03/31/1347248/hbo-says-game-of-thrones-piracy-is-a-compliment .
rindolfJude: quite encouraging.
Judewhy
rindolfJude: what is encouraging?
rindolfJude: I mean that some television producers are having a clue about piracy.
rindolfJude: I think the MPAA is likely going to follow the lead of the RIAA and endorse the Internet.
rindolfJude: well, there's still a long way to go with even music online.
cheeseduckrindolf: "How to win friends and..."
rindolfcheeseduck: ah, that. Making slow progress in it.
rindolfcheeseduck: I thought it was a book *I* was writing.
rindolfLately, I've been writing books and screenplays and stuff more than I've been reading them. :-D
cheeseduck"I've been reading a lot of scripts lately." "You know, it's cheaper than going to the movies."
rindolfcheeseduck: heh.
rindolfcheeseduck: some people find the screenplays funny as they are.
rindolfcheeseduck: they have good imagination.
cheeseduckI always found the standard they are supposed to be written in weird.
cheeseduckKind of wasteful in space.
rindolfcheeseduck: for other people, it ruins the experience.
rindolfcheeseduck: yes, maybe.
JudeI see rindolf, did you catch the walking dead's finale?
rindolfcheeseduck: I have something of my own - http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/projects/XML-Grammar/Fiction/
rindolfJude: not familiar with "Walking Dead".
rindolfJude: horror drama - I have a soft stomach.
rindolfJude: I prefer humour or drama/humour or sci-fi/humour or sci-fi/humour/drama or stuff like that.
Judek, sorry to have bothered you
rindolfJude: I watched three episodes of My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic, and so far - I'm game.
rindolfJude: you did not bother me.
Judenever seen it
rindolfJude: do you watch My Little Pony?
rindolfJude: ah, I love it so far.
Judeheard it can get quite rough
Judemore nudity and violence than Spartacus and game of thrones combined
rindolfOne episode involved a lot of songs, which I disliked.
rindolfJude: heh, LOL.
rindolfJude++
rindolfJude: it's directed at little girls.
rindolfJude: so it's a pretty clean show.
Judeyeah I know
JudeI was kidding
rindolfJude: if you want incest and violence, then look no further than the Jewish bible.
Judethere are a lot of dubbing sections of the show to go with metal songs or violent scripts etc
Juderindolf, I'm jewish
rindolfJude: reportedly, it was quite realism then (the Bible I mean).
rindolfJude: ah, nice. So am I.
Judeand I couldn't agree more
JudeI have to go watch game of thrones
rindolfJude: yes, you need to process the Bible a lot to get to the good stuff.
Judewill talk to you in an hour
rindolfJude: enjoy.
Judeyeah, in Israel we have to take bible classes
Judein high school
rindolfMaybe I'll prepare a fortune out of this conversation.
Judeand elementary school too
rindolfJude: I'm Israeli too.
Judereally?
rindolfJude: I live in Tel Aviv.
Judewhere do you teach
rindolfJude: yes.
Judeme too..
rindolfJude: I don't teach.
Judedon't tell me you live near Rabin sq.
rindolfJude: well, I teach stuff via blogging and Internet writing.
rindolfJude: no, but I go there often.
rindolfJude: I live in Gimmel.
JudeRamat Aviv?
rindolfJude: yes.
Judethat's close to TAU
Judedo you study there?
rindolfJude: yes.
JudeCS?
rindolfJude: no, I just live with my parents.
rindolfJude: I graduated from EE from the Technion.
Judecool
rindolfJude: http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/computers/education/opinion-on-the-technion/
Judethat's your blog?
rindolfJude: it's my home site.
Judecool
rindolfJude: a good old fashioned Web 1.0 site in modern clothing.
rindolfLike valid HTML, modern CSS, some JS enhancements, etc.
rindolfBut still static HTML pages.
rindolfI have some blogs on livejournal.com/etc.
Judedo you know a guy called Nimrod?
rindolfJude: there are many people called Nimrod - it's a common name.
Judedon't want to give him in on public chat
rindolfJude: not sure I know a Nimrod off hand.
Judenever mind then
rindolfJude: OK, feel free to PM.
rindolfJude: many Israeli names can get confusing.
rindolfOK.
rindolfJude: I can easily come to Rabin sq. - there's a bus there from here.
Judehe's my brother, he lives close to you and he's also an open-source enthusiast
JudeI know
Judethere are plenty of them
rindolfJude: ah, that's great.
JudeI take them to uni on a daily basis
JudeI live right by Rabin sq.
rindolfJude: so you study in TAU?
Judeyeah
rindolfJude: TAU has tons of hot chicks.
Judethere are some
rindolfJude: there aren't a lot of people on the streets of Gimmel.
rindolfJude: so you study CS?
Judeno way
Judemaths
rindolfJude: ah, I see.
rindolfJude: maths...
JudeI know one or two nice looking girls, but I usually get put off by their personalities
rindolfJude: I think maths is taught wrong in several aspects.
rindolfJude: ah.
JudeI've only been attracted to one specimen of the female sex ever
Judein my entire life
rindolfJude: ah, really?
JudeI dunno, I agree when you speak of high school maths
JudeI like university maths so far
Judemy professors are really nice
rindolfJude: well, there are a lot of girls studying more humane stuff.
rindolfJude: http://blogs.perl.org/users/shlomi_fish/2013/03/ann-my-transition-from-software-developer-to-writerentertaineramateur-philosopherinternet-celebrity.html
JudeI generally don't like people who study humane subjects (I don't consider philosophy to be as such though)
rindolfJude: I've made a transition from a mathematician to a software developer and now I'm more of a writer/entertainer/amateur-philosopher.
Judeyou didn't like the way it was taught?
rindolfJude: like which way?
rindolfJude: you mean maths?
Judeyes
rindolfJude: well: 1. No pairwise work. Big mistake.
rindolf2. Need to memorise a lot of silly stuff. Why??
rindolf3. Maybe allow some sloppiness. Make maths more humane.
Judethat's why you got philosophy
Judemaths can't afford to be sloppy
rindolfThere's something poetical about many maths' proofs.
Judethe intuitive ideas behind them
Judeare beautiful
Judebut intuition can be misleading
Judethat's why you have to be really strict
rindolfJude: yes, that's why I think we should now move into proof verifier realm.
Judeif you want your proof to be valid
rindolfJude: right.
rindolfJude: but I was once criticised for this - http://ladypine.livejournal.com/24574.html
rindolfJude: thing is - not everything should be strict when teaching.
rindolfJude: I agree that mathematical intuition can be misleading, but it's still a good thing to have.
rindolfJude: thing is I think many mathematicians now require a lot of dedication and selling their soul to the devil, which is turning them into http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Nemo -s.
Judeit's not a very formal proof
rindolfJude: when I studied EE most of my courses were with open material, and I could do pairwise work, which I enjoyed.
Judebut seems to hold
rindolfJude: yes.
JudeI guess you are right
rindolfJude: :-D
Judethat the concept is more important than the formalization
Judebut a lot of my professors agree with you
Judeand would give much more attention to grasping the important concept, and understanding intuition behind proofs
rindolfJude: I'm always right. Unless I claim that "A is not-A". But Chuck Norris would be right even then.
Judelol
rindolfHah! A new Chuck Norris factoid.
Jude<3
Judeit's been nice chatting with you, I really have to go now, I need to watch GoT and then go to bed and wake up in 4 hours
rindolfJude: my father and I now have an ongoing Chuck Norris meme.
rindolfJude: bye, have fun, and good night.
Juderindolf, what's that
rindolfJude: what?
Judethe Chuck Norris meme
rindolfJude: well, we say stuff like "you're my most Chuck Norris dad." or "I taught Chuck Norris how to fight."
rindolfIt's a personal running joke.
rindolfWell, a family-wide one.
rindolfWe have our own jargon.
Judeheh
rindolfMost families do.
JudeI'm not close enough to any member of my family
Judeto do that
rindolfAh.
Judetalk to you later, ciao
rindolfBye.
Nisstyre-laptoprindolf: Douglas Hofstadter gave a talk about how mathematicians aren't as rigorous as they claim to be
Nisstyre-laptopand that they use a lot of analogical thinking
rindolfNisstyre-laptop: ah, OK.
Nisstyre-laptopit was at the university of Toronto
Nisstyre-laptopI missed it sadly though
rindolfNisstyre-laptop: ah.
rindolfNisstyre-laptop: was it filmed?
Nisstyre-laptopbut I can basically tell you what he said more or less
Nisstyre-laptoprindolf: there was a webcast
rindolfNisstyre-laptop: OK.
rindolfNisstyre-laptop: ah.
Nisstyre-laptopnot sure if it can be accessed still
rindolfNisstyre-laptop: ah.
Nisstyre-laptop<+Nisstyre-laptop> but if you read either GEB or I Am a Strange Loop you'll get it
rindolfNisstyre-laptop: I read GEB.
rindolfNisstyre-laptop: GEB was a nice book, but I knew a lot of what he was saying there.
rindolfNisstyre-laptop: I still enjoyed the drama stuff in the middle with Achilles, the Tortoise and their friends.
Nisstyre-laptoprindolf: you had the idea of using PM as a metaphor for systems of thinking and the mind?
Nisstyre-laptopbecause that's what the book is about
rindolfNisstyre-laptop: PM?
Nisstyre-laptopPrincipia Mathematica
Nisstyre-laptopthe formal system constructed by Russell and Whitehead
rindolfNisstyre-laptop: I didn't think of it.
rindolfNisstyre-laptop: yes, I know.
Nisstyre-laptopthe entire book is his theory of consciousness
Nisstyre-laptopand how there are levels of thinking
rindolfNisstyre-laptop: well, I read "I think, therefore I laugh" before I read GEB.
Nisstyre-laptopyou can be less of a thinking being, etc...
rindolfYes, he says that consciousness requires thinking in loops, or self-reflection.
rindolfWell, it's an informal theory of consciousness.
Nisstyre-laptopit requires what he calls a strange loop
Nisstyre-laptopand there can be many levels to it
Nisstyre-laptopmore levels == what we think of as more human or more conscious beings
Nisstyre-laptopso PM actually is able to self reflect to an extent
Nisstyre-laptopalthough it requires a human to interpret it
rindolfI believe, that creating artificial intelligence/artificial consciousness won't be easy to do, will require a lot of complex code, and will likely be faulty (have its own will, make mistakes, not run as quickly as more specialised code, etc.).
rindolfNisstyre-laptop: yes.
Nisstyre-laptopdepends what you mean by AI
Nisstyre-laptopthere are several different definitions
gde33the first human like robot will be build in Japan, the first artificial intelligence in the US
doomlordheh
gde33hahaha
Nisstyre-laptopthe church-turing hypothesis would seem to imply it's possible, at least in principle
Nisstyre-laptopto create "strong" AI
Nisstyre-laptopalthough I intensely dislike that term
Nisstyre-laptopsince it tries to say that any system of thinking that doesn't work exactly the same as a human one isn't AI
Nisstyre-laptopwhich is BS
gde33you guys are all worried about intelligence, I think that will be the easy part. Then comes the important stuff: giving it a sense of humor.
doomlordso there was the idea that consciousness is associated with information flow, and that "more" information flow is "More" consciousness, a continuum like gravity... but gravity can produce a qualitatively different effect past a certain level (black holes..)
doomlordso the "loop" is where information flow becomes qualitatively different ?
Nisstyre-laptopdoomlord: have you read GEB?
Nisstyre-laptopit would be the ability a system has to observe itself, and encode the system itself in the system
Nisstyre-laptopin other words self reflection
gde33I don't know many people who can be truly accused of having their own thoughts
doomlordi don't think so but i have some related quotes from somewhere
doomlordbut can a system only approximate itself
Nisstyre-laptopPrincipia Mathematica has that ability
doomlordcan a computer emulate itself...
Nisstyre-laptopas Gödel showed
Nisstyre-laptopyou can encode formulas in PM as formulas in PM
Nisstyre-laptopdoomlord: yes
doomlordbut to what practical extent
Nisstyre-laptopwhat is that supposed to mean?
doomlordnature has many 'feedback loops' involving information
Nisstyre-laptopphysical limitations result in a hard limit of feedback loops
doomlordwhat's GEB, links?
Nisstyre-laptopif you point a camera at a mirror eventually it will "stop"
Nisstyre-laptopdoomlord: it's a book
Nisstyre-laptopGödel, Escher, Bach
doomlordah Google reveals
Nisstyre-laptopbut the sequel is more clear on what it's about
Nisstyre-laptopI Am A Strange Loop
doomlordOK sounds interesting
Nisstyre-laptopdoomlord: anyway, if you nest implementations of a computer in a computer eventually there will be a limit imposed by the physical situation
Nisstyre-laptopi.e. the memory and processor speed
gde33only for limited thinkers
gde33it's like entropy, only for people who are afraid to think :P
doomlordbut don't physical systems also have practical limitations
gde33yes but those are not what we imagine them to be
gde33if only we knew the meaning of life, that would make things so much easier
Stryykerhow?
rindolfI think the whole "AIs spawning AIs" dream is not a good strategy for doing software dev. I think programming is here to stay. It's not like humans can efficiently do what a dedicated polynomial time program can.
doomlordeven humans get programmed, lol
rindolfdoomlord: yes.
gde33that new immortality project had some interesting videos
rindolfdoomlord: a large part of human technology is mental.
rindolfdoomlord: in fact, we can no longer survive without our mental technology. We couldn't for thousands of years.
gde33oh but we can
gde33just need a favorable environment
doomlordcultural template = human OS
gde33not mine
rindolfgde33: you can survive without your mental technology? Even without conceptual thought?
gde33not sure what you mean
gde33isn't that what all the other species do?
doomlordi saw some TED talk trying to explain the difference between Chinese and western spending/saving habits in the way the language encourages people to think about time
doomlordsupposedly Chinese language makes it harder to think of past, present, future separately
gde33languages can be really weird
gde33all languages have the word "argument" but some want it to have additional meanings, I believe in China an argument is equal to disobedience. lol
Belxjanderhuh?
gde33in English it is a kind of fight
gde33争 is a dispute 争论 is an argument or debate
gde33I cant think of good examples, I used to know a girl who knew many languages
gde33she showed me how some things are badly broken in some languages
doomlordis it true Japanese can't say "no", they have to repeat the question in negative..
doomlordthat is what we were told when learning but they must have a word for no surely
Belxjanderdoomlord: there is "Hai" for Yes and "iie" for no
doomlordso its just impolite to say "no" i guess
* Belxjanderis living in Japan
Belxjanderdoomlord: you lose context...
Belxjanderdoomlord: in English you don't repeat
gde33hah no
Belxjanderbut in Japanese you do
Belxjandergde33: depends on the person... my mother and father thought nothing of explaining politeness to me and will happily talk overtop me when I am speaking
rindolfgde33: I only know (Modern) Hebrew, English, some mostly forgotten Written Arabic, and some French (which I'm now trying to regain).
BelxjanderI have also run into the same from Chinese, Japanese, American, European AND African people I have met
rindolfgde33: well, I also know bits of other languages like Spanish, Russian, German, etc.
rindolfgde33: I know that in Hebrew we have compulsive genders for objects, so we don't care about phrasing sentences in a gender-neutral form, which is an English obsession.
rindolfgde33: I think it is parodied in this book - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinny_Legs_and_All_%28novel%29 (great one, BTW - taught me a lot).
doomlordheh languages with sexism built in.. gender all the way through
gde33some languages are also more emotional than others
gde33Italians are hilarious
gde33so much enthusiasm it makes you think something is going on
Belxjandergde33: spoken or written and the correct manner for if you are addressing "up/peer/down" the social ladder with regards respect... yes
gde33Belxjander: does that apply to many words?
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2013-04-01

“I need an Open Source Something…”

Display

user2013I need open source remote desktop in j2me
rindolfuser2013: hi.
rindolfuser2013: you again?
user2013I need open source remote desktop in j2me
user2013I need open source remote desktop in j2me
rindolfuser2013: we heard you.
atamagawaruiuser2013: I need an open-source, free rocket launcher in either VBScript or Batch!
sksuppcan do
rindolfatamagawarui: heh.
rindolfatamagawarui: I prefer it in AutoCad's AutoLisp.
sksuppVBScript 3+ years experience, team can perform your task quickly, for 300 dollars PayPal
rindolfatamagawarui: or in PDP-10 Assembly.
atamagawaruirindolf: haha
sksuppi guarantee if you put that on freelancer
sksuppoffers will come
atamagawaruisksupp: lol, to whom are you going to outsource the task?
sksuppi know
sksuppi'll assign it as a project for this Java class i TA
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineNo problem there…
Published2013-05-24

Solving the Halting Problem

Display

inf-groupoido0elise0o: mv seems pretty clear to me
o0elise0oi cant think of anything Linux doesn't have aside from stability with a GUI
inf-groupoido0elise0o: There are lots of obscure commands, but mv is not one of them.
o0elise0ono i mean mv makes sense
rindolfo0elise0o: Linux cannot solve the halting problem.
rindolfo0elise0o: but neither can Windows.
o0elise0obut have no cls with every other command shortened seems odd to me
OxydLinux can solve the halting problem: kill -9 "$pid" && echo "Halts"
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineCutting the Gordian Knot
Published2013-08-03

What to do about Becoming Enraged By Java

Display

swinefluis there away i can basically do if (input.equals("1" || "2" || "3")) {
rindolfswineflu: if (input.equals("1") || input.equals("2").
rindolfswineflu: Perl 6 has junctions for this.
Znooseyswineflu: in which language?
swinefluin Java
swineflualso that's uglyyyyyy
Znooseythen rindolf's way is the way to do it
limbo_swineflu: case from Java 7 on, before that just use ifs
Znooseyrindolf: is perl 6 out of beta yet?
rindolfZnoosey: well, they released Rakudo Star, but it's not very usable.
Znooseyah
Znooseyrindolf: do you know when it will be done?
rindolfZnoosey: I wouldn't recommend people to use Perl 6, but its junctions are still a cool feature and there's a Perl 5 implementation at https://metacpan.org/module/Perl6::Junction .
swinefluJava enrages me
RouninYou should stop implementing the Enrageable interface, swineflu
RouninA common rookie mistake
swinefluEnrageable interface = swing
RouninInstead you need a HarmoniousAndConstructiveReactionAccessorFactoryDAOInjector Object
RouninYou get it by incentivizing an EJB SproinkJunk
RouninIn your supplication gridwork of choice
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineProgrammer Programming Programmer
Published2013-08-03

Misbehaving Printers

Display

cousteaudamn printer... it's made like 4 fubared copies
cousteaujamming all the time, having to remove an accordion-shaped paper each time
cousteauturns out there was another sheet jammed, but it was hidden and the printer wasn't detecting it
pulsei wonder if printers will still jam paper in the year 3000
pulsemaybe it's a paradox of physics
pulsea fluke in nature
`GinI think its more down to the fact printer companies have been milking their cash cow dry, £10 in R&D each year. etc.
pulsemaybe some day paper will become obsolete, then there will be no problem any more
`GinThere are still employees at my job who would prefer to print an email out, read it and then reply to the email.
`GinI don't have much hope for that dream pulse :P
pulsethat's just stupid :P
cousteaupulse, how in the hell would printers work BETTER in the future?
cousteauthe more intelligent they become, the more stupid things they'll do!
cousteauthe machine rebellion will start with printers, it's a known fact
koollmanI suppose the equivalent of paper jam with a 3d printer can get really messy
cousteauheh
koollman"we cannot access the printer, it is inside a large blob of solidified plastic"
koollman"the first maintenance team went in, but that was 2 days ago, and we are preparing a rescue mission"
pulsemaybe they could produce the paper in the process
pulsemaybe they'll print you a hologram
pulselol
cousteaukoollman, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_goo
koollmancousteau: yes, but that one would auto-reproduce, which is much more scary ;)
koollmanalthough I guess a very advanced printer could print itself, it's the goal of reprap-like systems
pulsenothing a giant EMP wave wouldn't fix
rindolfkoollman: heh.
cousteaumaybe the 3D printer accidentally gets programmed with printing a 3D copy of itself, and that copy turns out to be already programmed with the same program
pulsehaha
cousteau3D printer fork bomb!
koollman:)
rindolfHeh.
keepsakeAh, replicators.
* koollmanremembers actually using a postscript 'bomb'
cousteau...as an unrelated note, the :(){... forkbomb doesn't work on the `dash` interpreter
cousteauit says that : is not a valid function name
cousteauso you can fool your friends by trying to convince them that the forkbomb doesn't work
koollmancousteau: that's not to hard to modify, although the result will be less obscure. or is it that it doesn't support recursion ?
cousteaukoollman, replace : with F and you have a working one
koollmanOK, so just the character is forbidden as a name. a bit sad
cousteauor with _
koollman_ works, it's still quite hard to read :)
cousteauwith _, if you tilt your head, it looks like a toilet on top of a tree
pulsethat's some vivid imagination
wei2912lol
cousteauor a chair or something
koollmanpulse: shell programming may have unexpected side-effects ;)
pulselike waking up in a mental asylum
pulse? :)
koollmannah. But I do remember making very bad jokes about zombie processes, reapers and clones
pulsehmm
koollmanI woke up as a sysadmin, too. that may partially qualify
pulselol
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineI blame Gutenberg
Published2013-08-08

What ##programming is all about?

Display

christos_hey
rindolfchristos_: hi.
Znooseyhello
christos_we have topic here?
rindolfchristos_: /topic
kimochiwaruichristos_: Ummm... programming? :-O
rindolfchristos_: anyway, we discuss programming and other stuff.
Znooseychristos_: the general topic seems to be type safety
Znoosey>_<
rindolfZnoosey: and Java questions.
rindolfHelp with Java homework.
Znooseyrindolf: ah yes
rindolfFrom people who cannot indent correctly.
Znooseyrindolf: hahaha
rindolfZnoosey: :-)
Znooseyrindolf: the most amusing was the other day, when some guy posted his code on one line in here, so i asked him to pastebin it, and he did... still all in one line
rindolfZnoosey: heh.
rindolfZnoosey: Java golf!
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2013-08-08

How well do Humans Execute Loops?

Display

rindolfashmew2: hi.
ashmew2hello rindolf .
rindolfashmew2: what's up?
ashmew2Sorry about the other day, my internet was acting weird. seems stable now
rindolfashmew2: ah, that's OK. :-)
ashmew2rindolf, just fixed issues that cropped up with a new router. Fixes the internet :D
RangerMauveI'll never forgive you
ashmew2what's up with you?
ashmew2RangerMauve, while(!forgiven) ask_forgiveness(); :P
rindolfashmew2: I'm fine. Looking for a misplaced E-mail.
rindolfashmew2: infinite loop!
ashmew2Let's hope that's not an infinite loop.
ashmew2:P
rindolfashmew2: run it in a background process/thread.
ashmew2hahaha
rindolfashmew2: :-)
ashmew2not necessarily infinite, we don't know how the variable forgiven is modified by the called function :P :P
rindolfashmew2: well, this is pseudocode.
RangerMauveashmew2: It could be potentially infinite if I die
ashmew2RangerMauve, don't let the requests be pending then :D
ashmew2for the sake of infinite rise in universal entropy.
RangerMauveMaybe I want it to happen. Manye I'm some sort of existential anarchist
ashmew2well, Anarchy, no matter how inviting, doesn't really lead to fruitful consequences. But i guess that's individualistic at best.
RangerMauve2deep4me
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2013-09-21

FizzBees

Display

rindolfOh, God, FizzBuzz discussion.
Rouninrindolf: Which framework do you think is best for FizzBuzz? I'm thinking Spring, Hibernate and Struts, with jQuery for the user-facing parts, of course
RouninTo properly print the lines, you see
RouninAlso FizzBuzz in C# is hopelessly out of date
* Rouninducks and grabs popcorn
adscfizzbuzz can be a challenging exercise if you require an exotic language like Chef
adscyou know what would be cool? A language that has an implementation for all such trivial programming exercises in the standard lib. Just imagine how confused a noob programmer would be when he couldn't just fizzBuzz() in standard C to solve the exercise...
Rounin:P
Rouninatoi is a nice exercise though
moopadsc: write one, become the hero that beginners need
moopcall it nooblib
moopbecome famous
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineFizzBees
Published2013-12-12

Crypto Time Exchange

Display

rindolfToday I got the idea for "crypto-time" similar to crypto-currency - BitSeconds.
rindolfNot sure how it will work.
PaperWhat would the benefit of having lots of BitSeconds be?
pyonrindolf: Ah.
rdevillarindolf: you are enabling pedophiles, terrorists, and drug dealers
pyonrdevilla: wat
rindolfrdevilla: heh.
sirdancealotand time thieves
rdevillaespecially time thieves
rdevillathink of all the time laundering
rindolfReminds me of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momo_%28novel%29
pyonrdevilla: Time thieves? You mean like those silly Facebook games that steal your time?
rdevillapyon: the Steam sale has taken up far too much of my holiday already ._.
pyonrdevilla: Heh. :-)
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineBe back in a BitSecond…
Published2013-12-25

Fine Literature (about svn.php.net)

Display

olamachonYay! svn.php.net is back up.
rindolfolamachon: <olamachon> Yay! svn.php.net is back up.
rindolf<doomlord__> xeno_ actually seeing rust on ==> that's great.
olamachonrindolf: ?
rindolfolamachon: sorry, I meant that it's great that svn.php.net is up.
olamachonrindolf: haha ya. Pretty exciting, might write a short novella about it.
rindolfolamachon: heh.
olamachonThe Svniliion: The trials and tribulations of a programmers journey to get information about PHP
rindolf“The day when svn.php.net returned.” -- by olamachon
rindolfolamachon: heh.
olamachonrindolf: Ah that's it. So much better.
olamachonrindolf: Hopefully I'll get like a 10 sec clip in some svn documentary on the history channel
XMPPwockyrindolf: you *know* that the people working on svn.php had to have an offline backup
rindolfolamachon: I like your title too.
olamachonrindolf: "And it went down, and that is how I knew it was the beginning of the end"
rindolfolamachon: heh.
XMPPwockyrindolf: because otherwise nobody could remember which way the arguments go for anything
rindolfolamachon: “I sulked in my suffering. It was the kind of suffering that tore your heart to shreds. A programmer’s suffering. Nothing could equal it.”
olamachonXMPPwocky: ya I was thinking about asking my fellow ner... connoisseurs.... if they might have a backup
olamachonrindolf: "a lonely life full of 1's and 0's"
rindolfolamachon: heh.
olamachonrindolf: I smell the beginning of an organically grown IRC novel
rindolfolamachon: this would definitely make a best-seller.
rindolfolamachon: heh.
rindolfolamachon: maybe I'll prepare a convo log out of it - http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/sharp-programming.html
olamachonhahahah
rindolfolamachon: “I remembered the happy days when I was using the svn server back when it was at its prime. Running. Functioning. These days seem so distant now.”
rindolfLOL.
olamachonrindolf: "Soon I realized we were at a turning point in a cultural revolution"
rindolfolamachon: hmm... you can do "better" than that.
rindolfolamachon: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/stories/ - I actually wrote some novellas and screenplay-of-sorts here.
olamachonrindolf: right right, novellas. I was thinking more like I was the glue guy in a documentary
olamachonrindolf: So I was trying to be super cliché
rindolfolamachon: ah.
rindolfolamachon: so was I.
olamachonrindolf: I like the ironic cliché where it actually means nothing
olamachonrindolf: its just all good sounding filler
rindolf“I looked at the clock on my desktop. Each seconds seemed like a century. What will I do without the svn server online? What can I do? What can I do about it? Who am I asking all these questions?”
rindolfolamachon: I wonder where I first read clichés such as that. Maybe it was someone parodying them.
olamachonrindolf: "Then I had an existential epiphany. What is SVN? What am I? What are we doing in this universe? This foray into the metaphysical was cut short by a brief glance at the clock. It's 5 o'clock. f**k this s**t, I'm getting drunk."
rindolfolamachon: heh.
rindolfolamachon: do you actually write?
olamachonrindolf: never
rindolfolamachon: ah, I see.
olamachonrindolf: is it that obvious? haha
rindolfolamachon: you may be a natural.
olamachonrindolf: I wrote like an essay or two in university, they were like 2 pages haha
rindolfolamachon: ah, so little?
olamachonrindolf: I read a copious amount of literature
rindolfolamachon: ah, OK.
rindolfolamachon: OK, I'll keep this conversation.
olamachonrindolf: Perhaps that has a prolific effect on my penchant for the perverse verbosity?
rindolfolamachon: and put it on that page.
rindolfolamachon: yes, maybe.
olamachonrindolf: Sure. I feel like we may be getting a bit off-topic here
rindolfolamachon: yes, well, svn.php.net is back - that's what important.
rindolfSeize the svn.
rindolfCarpe svn!
olamachonrindolf: Nice. I see what you did there. I am literally doing that as fast as I can
rindolfWell, not sure the Latin is right.
olamachoncarpe is the seize part
rindolf"Occupy svn.php.net!"
olamachondiem is day
rindolfolamachon: yes, I know.
rindolfBut maybe svn has to be conjugated.
olamachonoh was carpe diem an idiom?
olamachoncarpe svnus?
rindolfCarpe svni?
olamachon^
rindolfCarpe svna?
rindolfCarpe svnis?
rindolfNot sure.
rindolfMy Latin is weak.
rindolfI know the plural of Pentium is Pentia.
pyonolamachon: "Carpe diem" means something like "live/enjoy this day"
olamachonpyon: Seize the day
pyonYeah.
rindolfWell, carpe meant quite a few things.
rindolfIn Latin at least.
olamachonThis is unbelievably slow. On a 1gbps connection, PHP docs have been downloading for 15 minutes so far
rindolfhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpe_diem
rindolfolamachon: I see.
olamachonI'm trying to grab it all incase I need it later, but with my luck it will drop out again before the 1 file I need
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineWe’re not novelists, we just play ones on IRC
Published2014-03-10

What’s in a name?

Display

Rad-gcc `xml2-config --cflags` -g lib.c -o lib `xml2-config --libs`
rindolfRad-: you called your executable "lib"? It's a common name for directories.
Rad-...yes
Rad-i'll change it later i just got lazy
rindolfRad-: ah.
rindolfRad-: 1. Are you using version control? 2. Do you have automated tests?
Binary_DigitThis is the hardest part of programming - choosing a name for the dev directory.
Rad-no, no?
rindolfRad-: well, you should on both accounts.
pulseBinary_Digit++
pulsei hate that part
DenommusBinary_Digit: uh, src?
indigoBinary_Digit: projects
pulsei thought he meant the project name folder
Binary_Digitsrc is fine if you're only ever going to write one program
Denommusah, for the directory where the projects will be!
DenommusI always name it "Projects"
Binary_Digitall your programs are called 'Projects'?
theyShouldn't you use a top-level qualifier?
Binary_DigitCool.
pulselol
DenommusBinary_Digit: no, the directory where the projects are
theyFor instance, if you're making a library called "Jail", have the top-level folder named "Jail"? So the namespaces below would be "Jail.Whatever"?
DenommusBinary_Digit: I always think about some name when starting a project
Rad-rindolf: well I'm writing the tests. my program is a proof of working functions... well it's supposed to be anyway
Denommusthey: yup
Binary_DigitQ: How do I do <foo>? A: easy, just use Projects to do the first bit, then switch to Projects to do the next bit, and pipe the output through Projects
* jrslepakjust names a project's directory based on the name of the project
Binary_Digitjrslepak, so you still have the same problem
pulsei find it hard to come up with project names that don't suck
Binary_DigitDenommus solves it by calling every project 'Projects'
jrslepakBinary_Digit: what problem do I have?
Binary_DigitBut I prefer to find more original names
pulseI'm afraid I'm going to pick some well-known name, then i'll get sued and will have to walk around in a barrel
Binary_Digitjrslepak, the problem of picking a name for your project
DenommusBinary_Digit: stop putting words on my mouth, I hate it
benzrfBinary_Digit: one of the two hard things in programming
Binary_DigitDenommus, oh, I think you'll survive.
Binary_DigitEspecially if that graph is anything to go by.
Binary_DigitBut all right, I apologise.
pulsebenzrf, the other being actually getting to work?
Binary_DigitAh, bring back florin5
Binary_DigitI have a project for him
Binary_DigitA project name generator!
Binary_DigitOnly problem is: what to call it?
pulseproject name namer
rindolfRad-: they do? Why?
rindolfBinary_Digit: heh, it should be self-hosting.
benzrfpulse: 'two hard things in programming
benzrfcache invalidation and naming things'
pulsehmm
benzrfor maybe it was 'in compsci'
rindolfbenzrf: '...and off by one errors'.
benzrfwell known quote though
benzrfrindolf: huehuehue
benzrfi saw that one
pulseyeah, those are tricky
benzrfChrist i hate fencepost errors
benzrfthey get me every time -.-
rindolfbenzrf: I had a lot of them in a recent Project Euler problem.
Binary_DigitI think I shall call my latest project Bernard. Or possibly Saskatchewan.
pulseBinary_Digit, i find you could develop all sorts of names from fruit names
rindolfRad-: well, you can use them for your own personal use.
pulsehave a timer project? call it pineapple timer
benzrfrindolf: :(
pulsemakes it sound fresh
pulseand exciting
Binary_DigitOh yeah - Apple - or Blackberry - or Raspberry - or Apricot
Binary_DigitI don't suppose any of those are taken
pulsetomatomation
pulse:D
pulsestands for tomato automation
Binary_DigitI suppose the only way out is to pick a good name *first*, and then decide what would be the best program to fit that name. E.g: Project Turnip could be a Turing machine for kids
benzrfBinary_Digit: amazing
Binary_Digityeah, I know - I think I'm too tired for IRC right now, talking nonsense
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineSoftware naming discussions good jokes maketh
Published2014-03-18

Two men sharing frustrations with their hair.

Display

NBPFFS
NBPmy hair never looks good
NBPit's getting ridiculous
NBPfuck this hair
rindolfNBP: my hair is a disaster area too.
rindolfNBP: it grows in all directions and grows quickly, and it's always out of shape.
rindolfWhen I brush it it looks weirder.
rindolfNBP: heh, two guys discussing hair.
NBPmine doesn't grow in some parts any more
NBPbut where it does grow it looks terrible
rindolfNBP: ah.
rindolfNBP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8cDbj8mLKg - Ape of Death has hair problems too.
rindolfNBP: that's my favourite part out of The Mighty Boosh.
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineHaving a bad hair life
Published2014-07-22

Trolling konverse the Troll

Display

rindolfMacuser: I Went to an anime/manga con - https://twitter.com/shlomif/status/492341211827404800
NextFunctorroflcon
rindolfgde33: you can use AdBlockPlus.
gde33that doesn't work, with a central server they have to pay a lot for hosting
konverseThis guy is hilarious. rindolf!
gde33I have to watch advertisements to make the centralized control work
gde33because it doesn't
gde33yeah this "service"
rindolfkonverse: who is?
gde33meanwhile the tubes are so fast that the high-definition torrent is finished before I can tab to the client
gde33uhhuhuhu??
gde33oh I said torrent *shrug*
rindolfMacuser: BTW, do you know iJustine on YouTube/etc.? She's awesome.
gde33you are assuming I'm not uploading
rindolfThere are other business models for Web revenue - https://plus.google.com/+ShlomiFish/posts/MRLntf3xu5Y
gde33ahh the greed based garbage interwebs
konverseWhat else rindolf?
rindolfgde33: greed?
rindolfkonverse: what?
rindolfkonverse: I don't understand you.
konverseAm I trolling you? Sorry if I interrupted.
jrslepakjust because you do things for strangers for free doesn't mean other strangers aren't doing things for you for free
rindolfkonverse: please be more coherent.
gde33konverse: not at all
gde33you could just, you know, work for your money?
rindolfkonverse: vague person is vague.
konverseHeh. We're marking tertiaries. I'm glad.
rindolf<perlbot> rindolf: vague question is really, really vague, in fact it's so fucking vague that you can't even caption a cat with it because the cat would DIE OF VAGUE
konverserindolf: So as is robust to robots?
rindolfkonverse: find some place else to troll.
konverseHah! Got you.
konverseWhere have my poor fingers gone?
konverseSomewhere in the sewers! Bwahahahaha.
rindolfkonverse: I hope they get caught there and you'll have to live with the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles who will kick the ass out of you.
konverseOOooh.
rindolfkonverse: them and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megan_Fox .
konverseTouchy. Did you have to man that?
NextFunctorAccess violated @ that insult
rindolfkonverse: man?
konverseYah mon.
rindolfkonverse: yeh money!
konverseWell, there ya go.
konverseHumanity at its' finest.
rindolfkonverse: money talks, bullshit walks, and GNU awks!
NextFunctoryeh boi, freeze! how low can you go? - Public Enemy ft. Anthrax
konverseWell deserved credit, mon.
NextFunctorI'm curious Konverse
NextFunctorAre you even a programmer?
rindolfkonverse: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/humanity/ - «Humanity - The Movie»
gde33konverse: what basic do you write in?
konverseI do know the basics of some langs. Compared to this wumpus, I have more experience than even what kind of taste his art is.
rindolfgde33: he writes in basic trolling English.
konverseThere goes more credit. +1.
konverseBitcoin talker.
rindolfkonverse: I'm not worthy! I'm not worthy! I'm not worth!
* rindolferects a giant status of konverse and worships it.
rindolfYour holiness!
rindolfYour godliness!
* wei2912bows in front of the statue
rindolfYour ChuckNorrisness!
wei2912wait, status*
rindolfwei2912: also kiss its feet.
wei2912your status glorifies us!
gde33the only interpreter should be hardware design language, then we should go back to the cartridge system
wei2912glorious leader
wei2912we will follow you for the rest of your life!
wei2912your status shall be in our hearts!
rindolfwei2912: yes.
rindolfwei2912: heh.
konverseIt's not over rindolf. Soon, there'll be butterflies. Then there'll be birds and cats wraunching at each other.
rindolfhttp://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/facts/Summer-Glau/ - Summer Glau > Chuck Norris.
wei2912(next day: Status changed to: "these idiots engraved my status, now it won't automatically update"
konverseI'm pretty sure. You have something planned?
rindolfkonverse: your SummerGlau-ness!
gde33rindolf: do you make a lot of money with your website?
rindolfkonverse: nothing is over until either or both of us are dead! D. E. D. Dead!
rindolfgde33: not a lot yet.
konverseYes. Wanna race? I'll play tag first. You're it.
* rindolfeats the tag.
rindolfOm nom nom nom. Delicious.
rindolfHere's a tag for you - <br class="foo" />
rindolfIt's an XHTML tag.
konverseThat's rhetorical rindolf. You should have type casted.
gde33rindolf: oh that will be sure to make things easy!
konverseWhy the long face??? :<
rindolfhttp://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Muppets-Show-TNI/Harry-Potter.html - Cookie Monster as Dumbledore 2.
konverseAh. Just a frame. A portrait. We're there any fleas?
konverserindolf: You're pathetic.
konversePeriod.
rindolfkonverse: I am pathetic.
wei2912humans are pathetic
rindolfkonverse: I perfected patheticness to an art-form.
konverseI won't go for stats, 'cause I can already tell by just a lift of a knob, I can twist things around.
rindolfkonverse: my patheticness is unmatched even by Chuck Norris' patheticness.
rindolfZadYree: ewwwww!
rindolfZadYree: what's up?
ZadYreeyo rindolf :)
ZadYreeWell, trying to convince myself it's time to code ^^
rindolfZadYree: how's life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness today?
rindolfZadYree: Stop! Coding time!
ZadYreeHehehe
konverseWhat if I do this? ><````'i> j-------\p
rindolfZadYree: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo - Stop! Hammer Time.
rindolfkonverse: ASCII art?
gde33konverse: you have to wrap it in a cdata section
ZadYreerindolf, hehehe! Oh yeah!
konverseYou're so obvious rindolf.
konverseI guess the wait watchers have no idea.
rindolfZadYree: meet konverse - he's my target of counter-trolling.
rindolfkonverse: s/wait/weight/
konverserindolf: Guess what? I'm trolling your website. I'll go and rate it.
rindolfkonverse: go ahead. Make my day!
ZadYreetroll day is best day
konverseOOOOoooooh.
rindolfkonverse: any publicity is good publicity.
konverseLike, how you started the alpha?
rindolfkonverse: alpha?
rindolfkonverse: alpha of what?
rindolfZadYree: heh.
konverseNm.
rindolfZadYree: "It's a good day to troll!"
rindolfkonverse: whatever.
rindolfhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yf7MT1p1VNI - whatever.
ZadYreerindolf, :)
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineMay the best troll win!
Published2014-07-27

The Round Trip Delay of Approaching a Girl

Display

rindolfprotist: I realised Sarah Michelle Gellar starred in the same show as Robin Williams. They played a father and daughter.
protistrindolf: you are obsessed with her :p
rindolfAnd the father divorced her mother and left her mother to raise her on her own, kinda like SMG in real life.
rindolfprotist: I *iz* obsessed with her.
rindolfprotist: she was one of my first loves.
protistrindolf: haha
rindolfprotist: I was recently obsessed with Jennifer Lawrence too - I like the alpha female/insurgent/antagonist/rebel type of girls.
rindolfprotist: over at the Technion , I kinda hit on a girl with a nose ring who coloured her hair black, but she turned out to already have a bf.
rindolfprotist: since then I realised I should be more honest and direct and also reduce the round-trip/time-to-market delay.
protistrindolf: round-trip/time-to-market delay?
protistrindolf: and a lot of girls will just say they have a boyfriend :p...and sometimes they do it to test you, because oddly they are only interested in a guy who persists in spite of the fake boyfriend
Jck_trueprotist: Yeah you might not wanna mention ROI [= "Return On Investment"] when you're asking a girl on a date...
protistrindolf: but sometimes it is lack of interest...and sometimes they really do have a boyfriend
protistJck_true: what do you mean? :p
rindolfJck_true: heh.
protistJck_true: I'm doing the monogamy thing at the moment
rindolfJck_true++ # Made me laugh.
rindolf"What's your favourite position? CTO!"
pyonprotist: Wouldn't it be easier to simply say "not interested, bye"?
pyonprotist: I mean, in the case where they aren't interested.
protistpyon: When do you ever remember girls being simple?
Jck_trueThe Freaking FCC :)
pyonprotist: True that.
protistpyon: and sometimes they may tell you they have a boyfriend...and actually have one...but will still sleep with you
protistpyon: they might tell you just so you know that this is supposed to be discrete lol
vendupyon, nothing is simple with/about women :D
venduhey rindolf
rindolfprotist: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=sharp-xkcd-programming-languages-sex-talk - Haskell Sex.
protistrindolf: i saw that when you linked it before :)
rindolf<vendu> pyon, nothing is simple with/about women :D ==> lies! Just read "Women for dummies" and you're set!
pyonrindolf: lol
venduhehe
vendu=)
Svetlanaffs
rindolfHikaruBG: hi, no idea.
rindolfSvetlana: hi.
rindolfSvetlana: what's wrong?
rindolfSvetlana: I hope you were not too offended by our sex talk or pseudo-sex talk here.
rindolfWe're not sexist - we just play ones in real life.
HikaruBGSvetlana, what is ffs?
rindolfWell, there's a difference between sexist and sexualised.
rindolfHikaruBG: "FFS = for fuck's sake".
SvetlanaNo, I'm not offended at the conversation. I am offended at how lame work I'm doing at setting focus and priorities, though. I am trying to get mediawiki running but in fact I'm not sure it's a good idea for me to do so or what I would be working on.
HikaruBGthanks rindolf, i have learned something new today .... that early in the morning :)
HikaruBGSvetlana, just take a 15 and step out from the office. Then figure all priorities out.
SvetlanaHow do you define "take a 15"?
grim00115 milliseconds
sandeepvendu: hi
HikaruBG15 minutes ... :)
HikaruBGclean your head a bit
HikaruBGfresh air
rindolfSvetlana: yes, maybe take a walk.
rindolfSvetlana: ah, I'm glad you're not offended.
HikaruBGon another hand, Svetlana, where are you trying to deploy mediawiki?
rindolfWell, boys will be boys (and girls will be girls).
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Tagline“Baby, we’re so direct, we need to be on the same subnet!”
Published2014-08-25

Life According To Valentine

Display

rindolfIn my imagination, my concept at the time of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Michelle_Gellar , who was a relatively wild and polyamorous girl (but still an awesome one) decided to duplicate herself and then said "I am going to call my new self 'Valentine'". So she gets duplicated and her duplicate then says "So I'm Valentine, right?"
njcomsecdoes polyamorous mean a slut?
rindolfnjcomsec: well, not exactly.
rindolfnjcomsec: thing is - she was very picky about which guys she got involved with. But if she slept with you once, you don't need to worry about it happening again.
pyonIs it not possible to have a fixed, small but non-singleton set of romantic partners?
rindolfpyon: what does that mean?
njcomseci wouldn't worry about it :)
njcomsecin fact i would worry she might NOT want to again
njcomsecpyon i believe that is called open relationship
njcomseci am open to this idea
njcomsecbut so far i cant even find one nice girl who will date me
njcomsecso this is the first step
o0elise0oi have this problem where if i sleep with someone i usually don't want to ever again
njcomsecthat's cute
pyonrindolf: A singleton set is a set with exactly one element. A small, non-singleton set of romantic partners would be, for example, having two or three romantic partners, but not having sex with arbitrary people.
rindolfAlso , Miranda Kerr recently bragged about all the great sex she's been getting with various willing men after being separated from her husband (= Orlando Bloom). I say - all the power to her.
rindolfpyon: ah.
rindolfpyon: well, she had a fixed (But often growing or getting reduced) set of those.
pyonrindolf: Well... if it is often growing or shrinking, it is not fixed.
gde33|2o0elise0o: try costumes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJgYxWhDDWc
rindolfpyon: ah.
rindolfpyon: well, if her lovers had entered a relationship, she stopped sleeping with them.
rindolfpyon: although not permanently.
pyonrindolf: Ah!
rindolfI imagined a short students' film about Valentine Gellar's life.
rindolfIt starts with showing her riding a bus and then there are the immortal words "I used to be Sarah Michelle Gellar".
rindolfAnd Valentine had a steady boyfriend and also studied for a Ph.D. Well, she's a professor now.
rindolfAnyway, at one point she visits her and Sarah's mother, who admits that while she knows that Valentine is technically her daughter, she causes her so few troubles and is so great, that she has a hard time thinking of her as her daughter - she's more like a younger friend.
gde33|2rindolf: you are spoiling the whole movie!
rindolfgde33|2: heh, it's not a real film.
gde33|2you underachiever!
gde33|2I say, make it so
rindolfAnd then she visits a guy and sees that his room is in disarray and after she queries him for this he says "Ah, yes, Sarah was here last night. We had an awesome time." So Valentine says: "She couldn't have been! She stayed up late at a benefit and went to bed past 1 AM exhausted." . So he thinks for a moment and says: "So it wasn't her! No biggie."
KAROLINArindolf: are you fluffy?
rindolfKAROLINA: no, I'm Fluttershy.
KAROLINArindolf: What is a fluffershy?
rindolfAnd there's also a part where the original SMG and Valentine recall some memories from their mutual past together.
KAROLINAJamesNZ are you fluffy?
rindolfKAROLINA: s/ffer/tter/
KAROLINArindolf: i don't understand you
JamesNZKAROLINA: Nope.
rindolfKAROLINA: Fluttershy is the sensitive pony in My Little Pony- http://mlp.wikia.com/wiki/Fluttershy
KAROLINArindolf: but i like Fluffle betteR!?
rindolfKAROLINA: what is fluffle?
KAROLINArindolf: Google Fluffle!
KAROLINAand then go to pictures
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Tagline“I used to be Sarah Michelle Gellar”
Published2014-08-29

How to win over a young boy in a pretend gun fight.

Display

rindolfthecha: hi, what's up?
thechanot much. I am running my trisquel gnu/Linux from an usb now
thechaand you?
rindolfthecha: I've been redditting and twittering.
rindolfthecha: and I went on a walk now.
pulsehi rindolf
rindolfthecha: I met a father with two children. he scolded them.
rindolfthecha: I asked him for their names and he said "why does it matter?" :-(
rindolfpulse: hi.
rindolfI also saw a lady sitting on a bench with two Pekinese dogs - one male and one female.
rindolfthey barked at me.
rindolfMaybe she was afraid of me (their owner I mean).
ezriosdogs bark at everything
rindolfI also saw some bird watchers in the park earlier in the morning.
rindolfezrios: some dogs are amazingly calm.
rindolfezrios: I once met a huge Caucasian Shepherd dog who was less than one years old and called "Rambo" who was super-calm.
rindolfHis owner was also very friendly.
ezriosa super-calm Rambo eh
epitamizorcool story bro
rindolfThey say the dog and its owner resemble each other.
rindolfepitamizor: every story is cool with the right attitude.
rindolfepitamizor: http://www.reddit.com/r/TMNT/comments/2d9fo7/postrelease_movie_discussion_thread_2/ck3khga - see this.
rindolfezrios: yes , amazing.
rindolfezrios: Rambo was the epitome of a tough all powerful super-muscular anti-geeky warrior/action-hero.
rindolfezrios: but the fact of the matter is that the best combat warriors in the world are: 1. Not very muscular. 2. Geeks.
rindolfhttp://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/philosophy/putting-all-cards-on-the-table-2013/DocBook5/putting-all-cards-on-the-table-2013/best_warriors.html
thechaOK i will try
thechathe dog probably ws being aggressive because the owners mood was affecting him
thechathe owner probably was being hostile so the dog followed suit
thechaand the guy with the kids should have just said the names instead of being a dick about it
thechayou go for walks often?
rindolfthecha: yes, I go for walks a lot.
rindolfthecha: yes, this father should learn some things after fatherhood.
rindolfthecha: the children were nice.
rindolfOh! and on the way upstairs there was a very young boy with a toy gun and I pretended to wage an imaginary war with him. He enjoyed it.
thecharindolf-> who won the imaginary shoot out?
rindolfthecha: he did I think.
rindolfthecha: I let him win.
rindolfthecha: he seemed to have enjoyed it.
rindolfthecha: children can be so smart.
pulsei don't think age has anything to do with smartness
rindolfthecha: and it helped brighten my day.
rindolfpulse: yes.
rindolfpulse: I have actually grown smarter with age.
pulseI've grown wiser. not much smarter
rindolfpulse: ah.
rindolfpulse: what's your distinction?
rindolfpulse: I've grown wiser too.
pulsesmart is the ability to calculate things fast
pulsewise is the ability to live your life ;)
rindolfpulse: there are more parameters to intelligence than doing fast calculations.
pulsei guess there's certain correlation between the two
rindolfpulse: yes.
pulsei know. there's different types of intelligence
pulsebut most types boil down to two things. calculations and speed
rindolfpulse: ah. IQ?
pulseany kind of intelligence
pulseIQ is a sort of generalization of all types
rindolfpulse: see https://twitter.com/shlomif/status/495252148775436288 - «Forget #IQ! #Sloppy → #Confident → #Smart!! #TeamGrimmie #confidence #competence #PublishOrPerish»
pulsebut it's also stupid
pulserindolf, hmm
pulsewhat am i supposed to see there :P
pulsei still don't know how twitter works
pulsewhat are those hashtags supposed to be
pyonrindolf: Meh, sloppiness is just sloppiness.
pyonrindolf: One can be flexible without lowering one's own standards.
thecharindolf you can't let the enemy win
rindolfthecha: yes, bring the Delta Team with Chuck Norris, Sylvester Stalone, Arnold Schwarzenegger, and.. Summer Glau (!♥:-)) against this boy.
rindolfthere shall be blood tonight!
sstayou really are obsessed with this Summer Glau
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineWe need backups now! He’s killing us.
Published2014-08-30

Spreading the love.

Display

rindolfaidanh: I've solved Project Euler #141 yesterday and learned a valuable lesson about excessive forking to processes and capturing their output.
Snake2krindolf: Indeed >_>
rindolfNamely: it kills performance.
rindolfSnake2k: where do you live?
Snake2krindolf: I need to start doing Project Euler again :|
rindolfSnake2k: ah.
rindolfSnake2k: we can become friends there.
Snake2krindolf: Northern Virginia, pretty much a mile or two away from D.C.
rindolfSnake2k: ah.
Snake2krindolf: We can still be friends >_>
rindolfSnake2k: heh.
rindolfSnake2k: I don't friend Northern Virginians!
rindolfSnake2k: ;-)
* Snake2kdoes "gcc -Wall hug_rindolf.c -o hug --std=c11"
* Snake2kdoes "./hug"
rindolfSnake2k: southern virginians on the other hand...
* Snake2kgets "Segmentation Fault (core dumped)"
Snake2krindolf: Why? :'( we're nice and shit :(
rindolfSnake2k: heh, I'm just joking.
rindolfSnake2k: I'm cool with Northern Virginians.
Tweyrindolf: ‘It kills performance’ — depends on your definition of ‘process’. POSIX processes are huge, but green threads in e.g. Haskell or Erlang are usually very cheap and can be used without much consideration.
* DarkCthulhuhas quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
rindolfTwey: I Was talking about POSIX processes.
rindolfTwey: I captured the output of "factor" for convenience, and it proved to be a major slowdown.
rindolfTwey: ERLANG! Munctional! Parallelism!
Snake2krindolf: but you hurt ma feelz :'(
rindolfSnake2k: heh.
TawreSnake2k, just commit violence against him
Tawreit'll fix everything
Tawreand if it doesn't you're not using enough violence
Snake2kTawre: good idea :|
* Snake2khugs the living rindolf out of rindolf
MyrlI wonder if normal algebra would be fine with you using lambda functions.
* rindolfsends 1e12 virtual kisses to Northern Virginia.
MyrlOr curried functions.
* Tawrekisses rindolf 0e13 times.
Myrlguys get a room.
rindolfTawre: heh.
rindolfMyrl: we got ##programming !
Snake2kthis is getting weird...
rindolfIt's a chat-room!
Snake2kI hug... I don't do virtual kisses...
* Snake2kslithers away...
* Snake2kis all creeped out and shit...
rindolfs/kisses/hugs/
TawreSnake2k, well, we can kill it "hugs" too if you want ;)
* Snake2kslithers back
Snake2kTawre: <______________<
Tweyrindolf: ‘Parallelism’ — er… yeah. That's what you wanted :þ
Tawrewe can do parallel hugs too
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2015-02-19

Baseless

Display

amsrebase is fun
Church-Base in general is fun.
sir_galahad_ad3rd base isn't bad
Church-I mean come on man, are you a base-head or not?!
Faylite4th base is fun
sir_galahad_adBase 16 is kinda neato
* rindolfis all about that base.
* sir_galahad_adhigh-fives rindolf
rindolfsir_galahad_ad: http://www.fivefingertees.com/all-about-that-base-no-rebels-t-shirt.html
FayliteYou can't use base jokes any more, cause all your base are belong to us.
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2015-02-24

3 Years Experience in Swift

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_blizzy_lol at people who are looking to hire people who have 3 years experience of Swift.
pulsei have 1 year of experience with Swift and I've developed a minor depression in that time
pulseshould i sue oracle?
apotheonI love how everyone who wrote three lines of code for the Linux kernel these days can now refer to his or her code running on things somewhere other than Earth to make themselves sound good, now.
rindolf_blizzy_: heh.
_blizzy_I have 4 years experience with Swift and 10 years experience of Node.
_blizzy_hire me.
rindolf_blizzy_: wasn't Swift created less than a year ago?
_blizzy_rindolf, that's the joke.
rindolf_blizzy_: yes.
pulseoh, you mean Swift
pulseas in apple
_blizzy_node wasn't around also 10 years ago.
rindolf_blizzy_: yes.
_blizzy_rindolf, oh.
_blizzy_https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/320ujx/why_cant_programmers_program_is_print_100_to_1/
pulsecould they choose a more stupid name
_blizzy_I tripped on that problem.
apotheon_blizzy_: If you don't have thirty years of experience with Java, you don't qualify.
pulseonly if they called it PHP 2 maybe it would be stupider
_blizzy_print 100 -> 1, but start with (for i=0
rindolf_blizzy_: «Chuck Norris has 50 years of proven experience in PHP/MySQL/Java. Each.»
_blizzy_rindolf, Chuck Norris made a new sorting algorithm.
_blizzy_roundhouse sorting.
pulsechuck norris once outrun himself
_blizzy_2003.
_blizzy_I hope no one
_blizzy_attempts to crash my app. c:
wei2912rindolf: chuck norris can compile any randomly generated code with GCC
rindolfwei2912: :-)
apotheonThat's impressive. GCC sometimes doesn't even compile standards compliant code.
pulsechuck norris can roll a joint while swimming
_blizzy_CN slammed a revolving door.
Tweypulse: They could have chosen a much stupider name, like ‘Go’.
_blizzy_Twey, or Java
wei2912lmao
_blizzy_I kid.
pulseTwey, well at least Go doesn't have any bad connotations ... as far as i know
_blizzy_GO is actually
_blizzy_decent.
* Tweyresolves to call his next project ‘The’
apotheonJava isn't a stupid name. It was just ruined by association with the language.
pulsewhen i hear Swift, all i can think of is those horrible layout patterns in Netbeans
rindolfwei2912: Chuck Norris once wrote a 10 million lines C++ program in MS Notepad without hitting the backspace key. And it compiled without errors or warnings and was 100% bug free.
_blizzy_Java is bad IMO.
Tweypulse: I mostly think of the bird
pulsechuck norris once made a program that was 110% bug free
wei2912rindolf: Chuck Norris once wrote Swift Swiftly
rindolfpulse: and he donated the extra 10% for charity.
_blizzy_Chuck Norris once wrote a Whitespace program without whitespace.
apotheonpulse: Only once? Slacker.
pulserindolf, :D
wei2912he Goes on to write Go
Twey_blizzy_: That's easy
amsisn't everything readable in go by default?
pulseams, that's what they said about Python
apotheonGo is an excellent Java replacement.
ams:-)
Twey_blizzy_: (the empty program is a valid Whitespace program)
_blizzy_Twey, oh.
_blizzy_time to learn meteor.
pulsei imagine it's possible to open a wormhole to another dimension using just javascript
_blizzy_it's possible in Python
_blizzy_import wormhole
apotheon_blizzy_: I hear excellent things about Meteor. I also hear bad things . . . like the fact it's a JavaScript framework.
pulse_blizzy_, from __future__?
_blizzy_pulse, of course.
wei2912heh
apotheonpulse: Yes, that's possible, but only if you do it by accident.
apotheon(re: JavaScript)
_blizzy_you gotta add 'use strict'; for it to work.
Znooseypulse: why would a wormhole be to another dimension?
apotheonI'm pretty sure neither Python nor JavaScript uses strict.
_blizzy_JS does.
Znooseypulse: wormholes goes to other places in the galaxy, it does not move between dimensions
pulseZnoosey, i thought all wormholes lead to dimensions with silly rabbits and such
apotheonSeriously? I clearly haven't been writing "enough" JavaScript.
_blizzy_https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Strict_mode
apotheonI haven't yet encountered that.
Znooseygalaxy = universe
pulseapotheon, yeah, JS has use strict :L
pulseZnoosey, wat
Znooseyin my sentence it is!
TweyAs a string.
ZnooseyI just messed it up :P
pulsegalaxy is a subset of the universe
TweyI thought that was a joke about Python's True = False
pulsea universe might be a subset of a multiverse :P
Znooseypulse: yes, I messed it up in my sentence
pulsea multiverse might be a subset of itself o_O
Znooseya multiverse is a subset of space
pulsewell what is space then
Znooseyspace might be infinite
_blizzy_why is True = False even legal
_blizzy_in Python.
pulse_blizzy_, because of reasons
pulseit's illegal in 3.0 AFAIK
Twey_blizzy_: It's not in Py3
_blizzy_OMG
apotheonpulse: I think that instead of "galaxy = universe" what Znoosey meant was "s/galaxy/universe/".
_blizzy_somehow sneak True = False into a python 2 program
fykosGuys, why the arraylist only adds the last token to the list?http://pastebin.com/YbHLEqnA
pulseapotheon, universe = universe? o_.
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2015-04-10

English Spelling

Display

amigojapanit seems the Tokyo Hackerspace has finally moved to it’s new location, I was waiting for this in order to give my programming 101 class over at their place….
rindolfamigojapan: s/it’s/its
amigojapanty rindolf
rindolfamigojapan: you're welcome .
amigojapanrindolf: I really find that English rule strange, usually ’s is possessive
rindolfamigojapan: well, you don't say he’s instead of his.
amigojapanbut its is the correct possessive for it
rindolfamigojapan: yes, it is.
amigojapantrue
aidanhamigojapan: With English, the only rule is that there are always exceptions
amigojapanhehehe true aidanh , jkhdkjdsh shjsad sdlkhlsk ads h kds <— I declare this now valid English :)
aidanhHeh
* amigojapanshould read his gibberish before posting, what if by pure chance I write something incriminating :)
rindolfamigojapan: you misspelled "shsjad"
amigojapanlol, rindolf
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2015-04-26

Who invented Satan?

Display

Ori_B...I'm failing at typing.
hassoon_yep
hassoon_you're a fail
hassoon_a shame on the human kind
aawehassoon_: I invented failure
aaweplease send royalty checks
hassoon_aawe: you must be Satan.
aaweI invented satan too
rindolfaawe: Chuck Norris invented Satan!
aawerindolf: I'll need to send some cease or desist letters to Chuck’s lawyers for spreading such lies
aaweor is that "cease AND desist"?
rindolfaawe: AND
aawemakes more sense, yeah
hassoon_rindolf is satan
rindolfhassoon_: so Chuck Norris or aawe invented me? ;-)
hassoon_rindolf: yep
aawebut then who invented aawe?
aawerindolf: for a token fee, I can list you as my inventor
rindolfaawe: Chuck Norris did!
rindolfaawe: I'd rather not make claims to Chuck Norris' work.
aawea chuck is the part holding the piece in a lathe, and norris is the cat in Hogwarts in Harry Potter
aawecoincidence?
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineDon’t reinvent Satan
Published2015-05-06

Zuudolph

Display

rindolfJohnBobSmith: ah.
Zuurindolf pindolf windolf, Hi :>
rindolfZuu: hi, sup?
rindolfZuu: maybe you should be Zindolf!
Zuurindolf: nothing much, just weekendstinating :>
rindolfZuu: ah.
ZuuWooh, Zindolph :P
rindolfOr Zuundolph.
Zuu:D
* Zuuis now known as Zuudolph
rindolfZuudolph: heh.
rindolfZuudolph: you're missing an n.
ZuudolphThe miss was kindof intentional :P
ZuudolphI mean, itetioal
rindolfZuudolph: ah.
rindolfZuudolph: heh.
rindolfDeath to the n!
Zuudolph:P
rindolfWe do't eed o stiki' N!
rindolfN is overrated.
rindolfZuudolph: nice.
Zuudolph:D
rindolfZuudolph kinda sounds like Rudolph.
ZuudolphThat's what I was going for :P
rindolfZuudolph: ah.
JohnBobSmithZuudoplh the black and white penguin! Had a very shiny beak! And if you ever saw him, you would know he's a programmer!
JohnBobSmithlolz
JohnBobSmithZuudolph: Do you like my attempt at poetry?
ZuudolphJohnBobSmith: it's a little arbitrary... so I guess it's good poetry :D
JohnBobSmithZuudolph: :D
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2015-05-17

Consumers

Display

blehblahhi
kalxblehblah: sup
blehblahnot much, getting ready to release :)
kalxblehblah: nice, releases are always fun (well, at least the feeling afterwards)
blehblahkalx, it's a nice feeling when you release an improved version of your stuff, it's exciting
kalxhaha. I only had the caveat because releases can be different depending on the project. (Deploying to a live server environment can be stressful sometimes)
blehblahoh, pff, nah I'm just consumer software.
rindolfblehblah: consumer software? Do people consume your software? ;-)
rindolfblehblah: is there less of it left after they pay for/use it?
blehblah:D
txdvrindolf: the consumer consumes the souls of the developers with their requests and what not
rindolftxdv: heh.
ashmew2this discussion WILL deter prospective developers
ashmew2:/
* rindolfconsumes txdv's soul.
txdvi have no soul
txdvnothing to consume there
rindolftxdv: that's good - souls are a nuisance.
blehblahtxdv: consumer = management? :D (j/k)
* rindolfconsumes txdv completely.
XgcEven in the electronic case, resources are limited. Each download may reduce the product available.
txdvCannibalism man
txdvMein Teil
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2015-07-03

Day of the Tentacle, like existence, does not exist

Display

xenoI wish Adventure games (the old style) hadn't crashed so badly. I like the Telltale Games, but they've turned into movies rather than click & point games
xenoalthough I just got Broken Sword on my ipad, that seems promising
xenobut still not anywhere near Lucasarts
xenoimagine the old Lucasarts team joining up and making Maniac Mansion III
themachinisthmm that would be cool. haven’t played MM
xenothemachinist: MM2 is better known as Day of the Tentacle
xenothemachinist: and it's the best adventure games of all time, easily spins circles around both Monkey Island and Sam & Max
themachinistheresy!
xenoplay it, then say heresy again! it's insanely good
themachinistnow i have something to do this weekend
xenodefinitely... and unless you cheat, probably longer :)
rindolfxeno: I preferred the Monkey Islands over Day of the Tentacle.
rindolfxeno: and I finished the Day of the Tentacle.
rindolfxeno: it's a good idea not to state an opinion as a fact. :-)
xenoI would play DotT first, Sam & Max second, Monkey Island II third, not sure about 4th
xenorindolf: but it's a fact that DotT is the best! :)
themachinistTwey: i think its busybox, not sure how to tell
themachinistjkbbwr: ?
rindolfxeno: "In my opinion, it's a fact!"
xenorindolf: exactly!
rindolfxeno: stop! You don't exist! You cannot have opinions.
rindolfxeno: I am not -> I think not.
xenorindolf: you don't need to exist or to think for DotT to be the best adventure game :)
rindolfxeno: you cannot have opinions and you certainly cannot state facts.
rindolfxeno: heh.
rindolfxeno: DotT does not exist! Thus, it can not be played.
rindolfxeno: the Matrix HAZ YOU!
xenorindolf: of course the matrix has me
xenoor I have the matrix
xenoor maybe I am the matrix
rindolfxeno: in which cell? ;-)
xeno#9, the one with the soft fluffy walls
rindolfxeno: a matrix is two-dimensional.
xenoonly inside the matrix
rindolfxeno: maybe an Evil Genius convinced us that matrices are a valid mathematical concept.
TweyMatrices are just a special case of tensors.
xenorindolf: that's likely, but you don't even need that... the Evil Genius argument is just Descartes being incapable of imagining himself as not created by something conscious
rindolfTwey: "Flobakonins are just a special case of loremipsums."
Tweyrindolf: Gesundheit!
rindolfTwey: heh.
rindolfxeno: i agree that reality can be very different from what we perceive it.
rindolfxeno: assuming powerful enough misconceptionists.
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Tagline“In my opinion, it’s a fact that I don’t exist!”
Published2015-08-24

Eat or be eaten

Display

pulsethat feel when you're hungry but you're too lazy to cook food
rindolfpulse: do you have apples or snacks?
Flonkpulse: 3pm, still didn't manage
novare#ramennoodleslifestyle
FlonkI know your feel
rindolfpulse: can you order pizza?
pulseFlonk, same here, lol
pulserindolf, yeah but i have no cash on me
pulseso it's either cook food or starve
rindolfpulse: ah.
pulserindolf, i have bananas
pulse:D
pulseno apples
adscpulse: you could hunt for neighbour's cats
pulsei like my neighbour's cats
pulsethey're cute
pulsealso i don't eat cats
adscthen hunt further away in your neighbourhood
pulseor any sort of meat for that matter
adscoh
adscthen hunt for their fruits and vegetables
pulse:D
* pulsepacks a rifle
pulsepesky carrots, won't get away from me this time
PlanckWalkIf you eat cats, then you'll be reducing the amount of meat eaten in the world.
adscshotgunning the ground is a surprisingly effective way to reveal the treasures that lie within
pulsePlanckWalk, that's paradoxical. i'll be eating meat so i'll be increasing it
PlanckWalkBut you'll be reducing the meat that would otherwise be eaten by those cats in their life!
pulseah.
pulsei don't mind cats eating meat
adscand he'll increase the corn that's eaten by mice
adscwhich increases world hunger
adscso it's bad to eat cats
adscbetter eat dogs
adscthey are useless
adscalthough I guess they to have a positive impact on sales of the shoe industry
adscso maybe it's not good to eat dogs either, or the shoe industry will falter
pulsenow I'm not hungry any more
pulseso this chat was somewhat beneficial
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2015-08-25

SCC - the Socialist Compiler Collection

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rindolfpyon: I'm trying to get inkscape to stop segfaulting on Mageia Cauldron.
rindolfpyon: there was a big GCC/C++ transition to GCC-5.2.x
pyonrindolf: :-O
pyonrindolf: What [use case / particular sequence of actions] makes it segfault?
rindolfpyon: just running it.
rindolfright on startup.
schquidThat delicious ABI breakage?
pyonrindolf: Ah!
rindolfschquid: yes!
rindolfschquid: it's part of the conspiracy of the Capitalists to oppress the proletariat!
rindolfschquid: GCC is controlled by the Bourgeoisie.
schquidI knew it!
rindolfschquid: heh, heh.
rindolfschquid: I'm planning to create SCC - Socialist Compiler Collection to end the oppression! ;-)
schquidHahaha we'll need to come up with a very socialist license for it
alphabutchowazzup guys
rindolfschquid: Socialist Programmers of the World - UNITE!
schquidAll hail the glorious liberated proletarian front!
rindolfalphabutcho: schquid and I are discussing our plans to end the oppression of the proletariat by the open source-proliferating Capitalistic hegemony!
rindolfschquid: :-)
rindolfschquid: from each according to his hard-disk capacity - to each according to his warez's size!
rindolfLOL.
schquidHahaha we could make this a thing :P
rindolfalphabutcho: actually , I'm trying to rebuild the Inkscape package here on Mageia Cauldron because it segfaults.
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineYou get Marx for Trying
Published2015-08-28

Get a Cyberclue

Display

mrfhitzI use the DNS to because my country blocks some web pages from us. So the only way to access the pages its to use a external DNS or a proxy.
kadobanmrfhitz: They just block at the DNS level? Brilliant.
GeDaMokadoban: lots of places do that
schquidkadoban, these are probably the same people that prefix anything computer related with "cyber" :D
kadobanschquid: Heh.
rindolfschquid: heh.
rindolfschquid: I detest the "cyber" modifier.
GeDaMoDo you ... cyberdetest it? :P
rindolfGeDaMo: heh.
adscrindolf: how did it even happen that people use "cyber" for computery stuff?
schquidrindolf, yeah me too. Sadly the main users are people in positions of power
rindolfschquid: yes.
GeDaMohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybernetics
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineCyberdistasteful
Published2015-10-31

How to get a Job?

Display

Myrl-sakiI'd accept any job offered to me on the spot, probably.
thechaMyrl-saki try to get a short internship - preferably paid
FAMASthecha: your reply is not made from a global point of view
Myrl-sakiAs long as it's not Java.
thechaand if you do 3 or so of them you are bound to be handed a job if you ask for on e at the end of them
sbrgsure
Myrl-sakilol
thechajust make a good impression: be pleasant to be around with, be on time, be diligent in your work, try to make your work better every day
sbrgHow to get a job with a cs degree in Denmark: 1. get degree 2. get job
thechaif you work in this way you will make yourself very valuable to your company and they wont let you leave
Myrl-sakisbrg: lol
thechaMyrl-saki so i guess move to denmark
Myrl-sakithecha: First step. Obtain a job.
thechano first step obtain internships
thecha:D
Myrl-sakithecha: First step. Obtain internship.
sbrgHow to get a job: 1. get a job for 5 years for 5 years of experience. 2. get a job easily because you have 5 years of experience.
sbrgeasy!
Myrl-sakisbrg: lol
thechathe job you get for the 5 years of exp does it require 5 years exp?
sbrgyes.
Myrl-sakilol
Myrl-sakiSo true.
sbrgthecha: no, sorry
sbrgmisread
sbrgit requires 10 years of experience
thechawell no problem then, just get a previous job for 5 years for every new job you get
thechawhat kind of experience are you getting at work anyway?
sbrghow to get a job: 1. solve the halting problem. 2. write a program that, given a job and an application you have written, terminates if you will be hired. 3. run halting problem solver on program for all jobs/applications 4. ??? 5. Profit
Myrl-sakisbrg: Lol.
sbrgHow to solve your unemployment issue: 1. create skynet 2. die at the hands of skynet 3. there are no humans so there are no jobs so by vacuous truth everyone has a job
rindolfsbrg: heh.
sbrgI'm full of good solutions today
sbrgif I could only solve this deadlock issue
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2015-11-28

Expansions of PHP

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RouninPHP has e-mail functionality built in
jkbbwrDon't use PHP and don't program anything
justanotheruserPHP - pretty happy programming
rindolfjustanotheruser: PHP - pretty hopeless programming
poweredPHP - (PHP) hates programmers
rindolfAlso s/hopeless/horrible/
jkbbwrPHP = Pretty Hopeless Paper mache
YeomraPHP = prehistoric programming :3
RouninProbabilistic Haphazard Programming
RouninIt's the new thing!
wei2912probably haphazard programming
justanotheruserPlease Hang Programmers
wei2912justanotheruser++
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2015-12-11

Sunday Bloody Sunday

Display

rindolfHi all! Happy Sunday Bloody Sunday!
* vdamewoodhands rindolf the magic Orange of Clobbergok
* rindolfeats that magic Orange.
rindolfvdamewood: that Orange tasted like watermelon.
vdamewoodThat's the magic.
* Zeno`gives rinny a big kiss
Zeno`(not gay BTW)
* rindolfeats the kiss.
Zeno`:D
vdamewoodrindolf: Which Bloody Sunday are you talking about?
rindolfvdamewood: U2’s.
vdamewoodThat's in late January
vdamewoodhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972)
beakyhello
vdamewoodbeaky: Hell-o
rindolfhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday_Bloody_Sunday
rindolfbeaky: hell!
vdamewoodrindolf: The link in that article to the event the song is about points to the page I linked to.
sstarindolf: the song is about the day
rindolfssta: I know.
sstait's also not new year's day (yet)
sstaone of the few U2 songs I like
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2015-12-27

Kotlin

Display

jkbbwrGosh kotlin really makes things simpler
jkbbwrhttps://gist.github.com/jkbbwr/3f6fdca5d74f7c584fa7
rindolfjkbbwr: you can't stop telling us about how great kotlin is, can you? ;-)
rindolf"Kotlin makes the sun shine, and the birds sing, and the Earth revolve around the sun, and it convinced the Knights who until recently said 'Ni' to stop saying 'Ni'."
rindolfKotlin is life. Kotlin is love.
war877Praise kotlin! what is kotlin?
rindolfwar877: if you have to ask what kotlin is , you'll never know!
rindolfbeaky loves Kotlin.
RouninI think they now say "Ekki ekki ekki tapannnnnnnnnnnng"
rindolfGod wrote the universe in Kotlin.
millertiWho is kotlin and what's special about the code you linked to?
war877Oh great. Yet another language to put on my research list.
rindolfwar877: Kotlin is the meaning of life.
RouninNot only that, but Kotlin also is life itself
rindolfRounin: yes!
jkbbwrrindolf: people do it for FP I get to do it for Kotlin
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineGive me Kotlin.
Published2015-12-30

Zeno’s “Coding for Nothin’” Song

Display

Now look at them yo-yo's that's the way you do it
You code ya free source in the IDE
That ain't workin' that's the way you do it
Coding for nothin' but the clicks are free
Now that ain't workin' that's the way you do it
Lemme tell ya them guys ain't dumb
Maybe get a blister on your ctrl-key finger
Maybe get a blister on your help F1

We gotta program microwave ovens
Custom kitchen deliveries
We gotta code these refrigerators
We gotta code these colour TV's

See the little faggot with the parser and the markup
Yeah buddy that's his own code
That little faggot got his own toy language
That little faggot he's a millionaire

We gotta program microwave ovens
Custom kitchen deliveries
We gotta code these refrigerators
We gotta code these colour TV's

I shoulda learned to code the hello world
I shoulda learned to code them things
Look at that mama, she got it compilin' in the background
Man we could have some fun
And he's up there, what's that? Hawaiian noises?
Bangin' on the keyboard like a chimpanzee
That ain't workin' that's the way you do it
Do your coding for nothin' get your clicks for free

We gotta program microwave ovens
Custom kitchen deliveries
We gotta code these refrigerators
We gotta code these colour TV's

Now that ain't workin' that's the way you do it
You code ya free source in the IDE
That ain't workin' that's the way you do it
Coding for nothin' but the clicks are free
Coding for nothin' and clicks for free

— Written by Zeno from Freenode’s ##programming, based on the “Money for Nothing” song by Dire Straits. The parody is licensed under the public domain.

AuthorZeno from ##programming
Work“Coding for Nothin’”
Published2016-01-19

Bad Taste

Display

Dr_Cokesunnymilk seems to match my personality
Dr_Cokeshe’s into computers and seems fairly smart apart from the Katy Perry comment
rindolfDr_Coke: for the record, there are some Katy Perry songs that I'm fond of as well.
Dr_Cokerindolf I'm sorry to hear that
rindolfDr_Coke: different people have different tastes.
Dr_Cokewell rindolf that's bad taste
rindolfDr_Coke: "*bad* taste"?
rindolfDr_Coke: by bad taste do you mean "taste that doesn't matches mine"?
jss_alpharindolf that's what people always mean by bad taste
rindolfjss_alpha: heh, heh.
Dr_Cokerindolf Katy Perry is bad taste
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineYour bad taste is not my bad taste.
Published2016-02-28

Hot Pink

Display

rindolfHi all.
DrIranianhiiiiiii :)
rindolfDrIranian: can I take one of your "i"s?
* DrIranianagrees after long consideration
* rindolftakes one of DrIranian 's "i" and colours it hot pink.
iwanttobreakfreehow old were you when you first started programming? i was 15-16
rindolfiwanttobreakfree: I was about 10.
DrIranian:D
rindolfiwanttobreakfree: I wrote in XT BIOS BASIC.
rindolfiwanttobreakfree: what did you write in?
DrIranianrindolf: Girls calling me housewife, asking me for cooking advice, and now you paint my i pink :D
iwanttobreakfreePaScAl
rindolfiwanttobreakfree: ah, Pascal.
pulseiwanttobreakfree, 12-13ish
rindolfiwanttobreakfree: a Bondage-and-Discipline language.
rindolfMostly dead now.
vdamewoodI feel a need to write more stuff.
iwanttobreakfreeyou have higher IQ then i guess
rindolfiwanttobreakfree: what makes you think that?
iwanttobreakfreedunno
vdamewoodI have a book on Pascal that I've never actually read.
iwanttobreakfreeit seemed to simple?
rindolfiwanttobreakfree: and IQ is a silly measurement of intelligence not to say competence and performance.
DrIranianIQ is good for a basic measurement
vdamewoodI once passed an IQ test.
vdamewood> 60 is passing, right?
DrIranian:(
iwanttobreakfreeactually you can have super high competence, but when you don't want to do the job, then it doesn't count
DrIranian105 is passing
DrIranianvdamewood: if you can turn on IRC, you probably have 105
rindolfisn't the average IQ 90?
vdamewoodrindolf: 100
Serpentine_Values below a small threshold deviating from 100 are generally very inaccurate
rindolfDrIranian: "turn on IRC"?
DrIranianrindolf: The same IQ in different countries is not the same
Serpentine_100 points is defined as the mean and median in IQ tests
Zeno`no wonder people are so stupid
* vdamewoodpassed Zeno` the state-sponsored happy pills.
rindolfvdamewood: Black Bile!
Myrl-sakiGuys.
rindolfMyrl-saki: and girls.
* vdamewoodgives rindolf some Yellow bile to balance his humors.
rindolfvdamewood: I want hot pink bile.
* DrIranianseconds
DrIranianI want pink bile
rindolfvdamewood: so it will match the colour of DrIranian 's "i".
vdamewoodrindolf: Your only other choices are blood and phlegm
vdamewoodI can give you a mixture of 1 parts blood, 5 parts phlegm
rindolfvdamewood: that's OK, I still have a lot of hot pink paint left to colour that bile.
DrIranianvdamewood: those are the standard options, we are talking about tuning the fluids
rindolfLOL.
Myrl-sakiWTF is happening.
Myrl-saki`echo 'a' > Foo`
Myrl-sakiThen reading it in, say, Haskell and Java, it's "a\n"
rindolfMyrl-saki: echo appends a newline by default.
rindolfMyrl-saki: you can use echo -n IIRC
rindolfnot sure how portable -n is.
Myrl-sakirindolf: Oh, I see.
vdamewoodIIRC --> In internet-relay chat
Myrl-sakirindolf: That doesn't explain why vim and nano also saves that way though.
vdamewoodBecause vim and nano assume you want a new line at the end of your text file.
Myrl-sakivdamewood: I see.
rindolfMyrl-saki: it's a configuration option.
rindolfMyrl-saki: kate doesn't do it by default.
Myrl-sakivdamewood: Why though?
* rindolfcolours the newline hot pink.
vdamewoodBecause they're text files.
Myrl-sakivdamewood: What's the benefit of such?
iwanttobreakfreeguys i have a genius idea: to make a programming language which supports all syntaxes ( func. programming, logic programming, OOP, etc)
Myrl-sakiiwanttobreakfree: lol
rindolfMyrl-saki: for one, cat $file works nicer.
vdamewoodiwanttobreakfree: C++?
DrIranianiwanttobreakfree: is this back in the future?
rindolfiwanttobreakfree: syntaxes or semanticses?
iwanttobreakfreeit doesn't support func programming and logic pr.
rindolfiwanttobreakfree: or do you mean paradigms?
iwanttobreakfreeeverything!
* vdamewoodgives rindolf 20 cents.
vdamewood(That's a pair o' dimes)
* Archergives iwanttobreakfree 60secs to say something intelligent
iwanttobreakfreeit's all mixed up. you can program everything with it
* rindolfcolours 10 of these cents hot pink.
* vdamewoodpats Archer on the head.
rindolfiwanttobreakfree: we have a saying in Hebrew : "Catch a lot - didn't catch anything"
vdamewoodLooks like 60 seconds are up.
iwanttobreakfreesuch a approach would result a highly effective program code and it would save thousands of human lives and it's a work of a lifetime for some people.
rindolfiwanttobreakfree: also, reportedly Linus Torvalds once said that his primary responsibility as the chief developer of the Linux kernel is to say "No.".
iwanttobreakfreei mean, you know logic programming languages and func. you know the differences? when you can mix them, then you could have better code
snypvoid free() { abort(); }
Serpentine_iwanttobreakfree: You may have misspelled "Python"
vdamewoodsnyp: void *malloc(size_t sz) { return (void*)rand(); }
sbrgvoid* malloc(size_t sz) { real_malloc(3 * sz); return real_malloc(sz); }
snypyou know... cause he wants to break free.
rindolfsnyp: like Queen? ;-)
snypyou know... cause he wants to break free().
snyplike LD_PRELOAD'ing a broken free
Archerquiet(Account.find("iwanttobreakfree"))
snypdammit.
rindolfsnyp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4Mc-NYPHaQ - if you don't get the ref.
rindolfsnyp: heh.
snyprindolf: i know the song
rindolfsnyp: nice pun.
vdamewoodvoid *malloc(size_t sz) { void *r = real_malloc(sz); free(r); return r; }
rindolfsnyp: good!
iwanttobreakfreesorry busy at work
snypbut i didn't quite like it when i heard it.. my fav queen song is bohemian rhapsody
snypprobably the only queen song i like
rindolfsnyp: ah, I only like the Muppets' cover of Bohemian Rhapsody. Have you seen it?
snypno
pulsesnyp, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqwC41RDPyg
vdamewoodvoid *malloc(size_t sz) { int i; return &i; }
rindolfsnyp: here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgbNymZ7vqY
* snypwatches
vdamewoodI
rindolfvdamewood: heh.
vdamewoodI'm going to stop coming up with horrible implementations of malloc() now.
rindolfMaybe we should write our own libc.
ams`void *malloc (ssize_t x) { static void *a[4096]; static int ap; return a[ap++]; }
ams`muhahaha
unrealAfternoon vinleod :)
snyprindolf: lol it's awesome
rindolfsnyp: :-)
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Taglinefree() like a hot pink bird.
Published2016-03-01

“What’s the Air Velocity of an Unladen Swift?”

Display

jailbotI have a json file that I need in utf-8
jailbothow would I go about doing this
rindolfjailbot: isn't JSON utf-8 only?
rindolfjailbot: and you can use iconv
jailbotidk I'm serving a json file to my swift project
rindolfadsc: heh, heh.
jailbotand I'm getting this error "The data couldn’t be read because it isn’t in the correct format."
jailbotand the docs say that it should be in utf-8
rindolfjailbot: what are the HTTP headers?
jailbothow can I check that
adscin your browser's dev tools
rindolfjailbot: using a command line HTTP tool or a sniffer or whatever.
rindolfjailbot: or adsc's suggestion.
squid_squadvisual studio is BUTTS
jailbottype: Document
jailbotI need to configure htaccess right
rindolfjailbot: possibly.
jailbot~.~
jailbotits 2am I don't want this
rindolfjailbot: go to sleep.
rindolfjailbot: Tomorrow never dies.
jailbotI'm on a role
rindolfjailbot: s/role/roll/
jailbotI want to hang out with my friends tomorrow
jailbotnot be writing swift haha
rindolfjailbot: I want a pony!
rindolfjailbot: what is the average air velocity of an unladen swift?
pluszakrindolf: what distribution? African or European?
sstaswallow surely?
rindolfpluszak: a Cupertino swift.
rindolfpluszak: designed by Apple in Kalifornia.
ssta"what's the airspeed velocity of an unladen spit" doesn't sound right
rindolfssta: a swift is a bird similar to a swallow.
rindolfssta: but not very related.
sstaI know :)
sstanobody ever wrote a book called "Swifts and Amazons"
rindolfhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swift
sstaswallows are clearly superior to swifts
rindolfhttp://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/orifice-open
* rindolfwonders if there's a programming language called "Swallow"
sstaif not there ought to be
rindolfssta: well volunteered!
sstarindolf: it would wind up being very similar to Java (but with a few fixes)
jailbothaha rindolf
jailbotI got it guys!
jailbotI was missing a :
rindolfjailbot: ah.
rindolfjailbot: does it swiftly work now?
jailbotyes!
jailbotI'm so excited
rindolfjailbot: ex-swift-elent!
jailbotalmost no code
rindolfOr ex-swallow-lent.
rindolfjailbot: can you go to sleep now? Swiftly?
adscrindolf: there doesn't seem to be a language called "swallow", but Spiral has a command called "swallow"
rindolfadsc: ah.
rindolfadsc: what is Spiral?
rindolfadsc: I don't see it here - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=spiral%20programming%20language
adscrindolf: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Spiral
rindolfadsc: heh, heh.
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineAs swiftly as possible
Published2016-03-02

Java and JavaScript

Display

SillyMusingsHow much money can I expect to make as a developer out of college?
quelqun_dautreSillyMusings: 0$. Tax deduced.
rindolfquelqun_dautre: well, that's a lower bound.
rindolfSillyMusings: the correct answer is that it varies based on several parameters.
SillyMusingsrindolf, what are the parameters?
quelqun_dautrewhat you know, what framework you can use, how good you are in an interview, where you are
rindolfSillyMusings: 1. Where are you located. 2. Which languages do you know. 3. where you'll get hired.
SillyMusingsI know Javascript and Java
quelqun_dautrewhere are you located ?
rindolfSillyMusings: it's spelled "JavaScript" - not "Javascript"
SillyMusingsI am located in Oregon
little_bithow much money you'll make is not a function of any of those inputs.
quelqun_dautreand how good are you at Java[script] ?
little_bitsad to say it's barely a function at all. predictability in terms of actual earnings is impossible these days.
SillyMusingsI'd say I'm okay at it
rindolfquelqun_dautre: Java and JavaScript are two completely different things.
little_bitif you want some examples, look at GlassDoor.
SillyMusingsWhat sort of range am I looking at?
little_bitSillyMusings: GlassDoor.
quelqun_dautrerindolf: I know.
little_bitSillyMusings: anything from us will be an incomplete picture.
little_bitSillyMusings: so draw from multiple sources.
SillyMusingsIf I'm fresh out of college, am I a 'junior developer'?
little_bitprobably. god knows what you'll be placed into.
quelqun_dautreSillyMusings: what is "okay" on your terms ? Do you know the play framework ? J2EE ?
little_bitSillyMusings: I certainly hope you aren't expecting a lot of money.
SillyMusingsquelqun_dautre, no I'm stronger on the JS side
pilneJava and javascript are often used in the same "completed" project these days, but they are completely different beasts for better or worse
SillyMusingslittle_bit, glassdoor says average of 103k?
rindolfquelqun_dautre: http://stackoverflow.com/a/245073 - case in point. ;-)
little_bitSillyMusings: for what position?
little_bitand where?
pilnejavascript is relatively strong right now due to node.js, it isn't ideal for *everything* but it can do a lot
* rindolfthinks serving Java web applets from a Node.js service is bestest
TubbyTommyJavaScript is relatively strong on it's own because they keep making it better, its not ever finished really
SillyMusingsyes I've been following es6 stuff
pilneerm... rindolf?
rindolfpilne: that was a joke! Relax!
pilneyeah, but it is starting to add cruft
quelqun_dautreSillyMusings: what do you know in JS ? What library can you use ? Ever used functional programming ? Do you know what a closure is ?
pilneLOL i would hope so rindolf, that isn't impossible, i just can't see why you'd do it other than being a code-massochist
little_bitSillyMusings: I'm going to assume you're fresh out of college, so let me make this clear: you're not getting those jobs.
rindolfpilne: use the wrong tool for the job! ;-)
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2016-03-20

An IDE That Does Not Suck

Display

vdamewoodMaybe I should make an IDE.
vdamewoodOne that doesn't suck.
rindolfvaresa: one thing I don't understand about JetBrains is why they have so many IDEs with a common codebase and different feature-sets. seems like a bad money-making scheme.
rindolfvdamewood: it likely will suck. :-).
vdamewoodThis coming from the guy who explains why all languages suck.
rindolfvdamewood: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=joel-ms-lost-api-war-1
rindolfvdamewood: and also https://xkcd.com/927/
vdamewoodIs that the one about competing standards?
rindolfvdamewood: yes, it is.
vdamewoodHey, every once in a while someone comes along, makes a new X, and completely obliterates every other X out there.
nso95rindolf: hey!
vdamewoodSpeaking of competing products, I need to learn mercurial.
jeayeI don't see the need for yet another IDE.
rindolfnso95: hi, sup?
nso95nm, you?
rindolfnso95: I woke up a while ago.
nso95ah/
rindolfnso95: and I am unable to reproduce the short benchmarking time I got yesterday. I've lost faith in humanity.
nso95that’s rather unfortunate
vdamewoodMy co workers: https://xkcd.com/1597/
nso95this next semester is going to suck
vdamewoodThe next semester always sucks, except the one after your last.
vdamewoodjeaye: There's no need for another bootloader either, but here I am.
jeayeThat's different.
jeaye"One that doesn't suck." is the key point.
jeayeYou didn't say that about the bootloader.
vdamewoodOh, yeah. I have no real goal to make mine not suck. Good point.
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineCompletely obliterate all sucky IDEs
Published2016-03-26

Dramatic Skills

Display

venduwhat's up guys?
rindolfvendu: I handled the morning's E-mails.
vendurindolf, cool :)
adscrindolf: you must work on your dramatic skills
rindolfadsc: my dramatic skills?
adsc"I wade through the flood of the morning's electronic mail messages" sounds much better than "I handled the morning's emails"
adscwell, it would if it had correct grammar
rindolfvendu: I've been working on the Kakuro Project Euler problem.
rindolfadsc: heh, heh.
adscrindolf has been chipping away at the Project Euler's Kakuro complex
rindolfadsc: will you be my ghost author? ;-)
adscrindolf: sure, but it might involve your character having romantic encounters with stoic goats
adscrindolf lost himself in the endless depth of the black goat's rectangular pupil, his self utterly annihilated by the vast void hiding behind the tiny window; a passage into a realm he thought lost forever
rindolfYay! Inbox Zero! Or as adsc would put it "I stare into the empty abyss of my inbox signifying my victory. "I have battled against entropy and came out victorious" I tell myself."
adscrindolf: that's it!
adscrindolf: your life becomes 100% more epic if you just want to
rindolfNow to train spamassassin.
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Tagline100% more epic; 100% more awesome
Published2016-05-14

Big JPEGs

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rindolfWow! The chromium-browser's sources tar.xz is 531,505,652 bytes.
pyonWow.
pilnethat's almost as big as a medium resolution jpg of my....
merkazucomputer
rindolfpilne: you have big JPEGs.
pilnethat's what she said rindolf :)
rindolfpilne: heh.
merkazui like big gifs and i cannot lie~
pilnehah!
rindolfmerkazu: heh.
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2016-05-14

Write-only

Display

rindolfI was told that Forth is a write-only language.
GeDaMoDepends on style
Myrl-sakiYeah, on some styles, you can't even write.
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineRead-less and Write-less
Published2016-06-14

Windows Update

Display

rindolfBleh! Windows Update is acting up again. I swear that it is the bottom of the bottomless abyss of suck.
TrashlordI know the pain
bahamut24My windows firewall has been broken ever since I installed windows 7 :/
rindolfTrashlord: let's inflict that pain on the Microsoft software devs that produced such crap!
Trashlordrindolf: yeah, we'll tie them to a chair for days upon days, and then say "See what it feels like to sit here waiting forever?"
rindolfTrashlord: heh, heh.
workmad3bahamut24: there was a time when Windows Firewall wasn't broken?
bahamut24Today was completely unproductive, no lines of code written.
Trashlordbahamut24: were you solving problems in your head, or thinking about design decisions, though?
bahamut24No just watched pointless shit on youtube.
bahamut24lmao
Trashlordah
kadobanWas it good pointless shit?
bahamut24kadoban let me check my watch history
kadobanIf you don't remember what you watched, couldn't have been that good :-/
bahamut24I see hitler parodies, best of news bloopers, "Bill O'reily gets owned by kid", "woman live in mans closet for a year" plus lots more
bahamut24"the orlando massacre"
bahamut24hahahah lots of stupid shit.
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2016-06-14

Vintage HTML and sudo rights

Display

vdamewoodgurra: You just have to make sure that there isn't any sort of infinite recursion on the left-hand side of an expression.
vdamewoodDamn.
ayush1vdamewood: gurra has quit
vdamewoodayush1: <sarcasm>No kidding?</sarcasm>
ayush1<reality>nature of kidding</reality>
Trashlord<this stuff>doesn't make you funny</thisstuff>
* PlanckWalk<blink>blinks</blink>
Rounin<span style="color:red;font-weight:bold">LOLOLOLOLOL</span>
* ayush1<thinks>wtf</thinks>
vdamewoodayush1: You forgot the acronym tag.
nitrix<marquee>Trololololol</marquee>
vdamewood<blink><marquee>This is my new web page in 1996!</blink></marquee>
Rounin<img src="under_construction.jpg"><h1>Be sure to bookmark this page!</h1><Html/>
rindolfRounin: heh, heh
Rounin:D
nitrixThere has be [ 0 0 0 0 0 2 5 ] visitor on this page.
nitrix*been
snyp{opinion: "hate markup"}
* TheMadcapperhas quit (Quit: TheMadcapper)
vdamewoodnitrix: No. has be is correct. ;)
ayush1vdamewood: no "have been" is correct
nitrixvdamewood: You deserve a spanking.
vdamewoodayush1: Thank you Captain Oblivious.
ayush1vdamewood: your welcome
ayush1thas are Englais
nitrixOne shall respect thy language.
* vdamewoodis not the one.
ayush1nitrix: supeir sitpusting
nitrixThat leaves only zero then, in our binary world :(
vdamewoodThere are 10 kinds of people in the world.
ayush1Quit: This is the end. Goodbye cruel world!
vdamewoodI just noticed that I have a lot of code that's commented out in my shold-be-ready-to-release library.
* ayush1is pretty sure vdamewood doesn't have sudo rights
vdamewoodayush1: sudo make me a sandwich
vdamewoods/shold/should/
ayush1vdamewood: sudo !!
ayush1vdamewood: did it make you a sandwhich right now?
vdamewoodNo. I'm still not a sandwich.
rindolfvdamewood: heh.
ayush1vdamewood: sudo !!; sudo !!; sudo !!; sudo !!; now you should have 4 sandwhich's on your plate.
ayush1vdamewood: including you
vdamewoodYay!
* vdamewoodeats vdamewood
* ayush1steals some of vdamewood's sandwhiches
* ayush14 to be exact
vdamewoodI already ate one of them. So you can't steal it.
* rindolfpoisons the sandwiches.
* vdamewoodbarfs on rindolf
ayush1vdamewood: I can still eat 4 of them
vdamewoodI want aleph-null sandwiches.
* ayush1orders astatine and mixes it with vdamewood's sandwhiches
rindolfvdamewood: you should hope some of them are not poisoned.
ayush1rindolf: I have added astatine -_-.
ayush1rindolf: BTW I am a zombie tintin now
* vdamewoodreboots ayush1
* ayush1is alive again
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2016-06-19

How to increase productivity?

Display

iamrohit7how to increase productivity?
vdamewoodiamrohit7: Find the productivity menu, and select "Increase"
iamrohit7is it a dropdown? i hate them.
rindolfvdamewood: heh.
rindolfiamrohit7: it is hiding inside the Hamburger icon.
rindolfiamrohit7: and requires activation in about:config .
rindolfiamrohit7: there are various productivity methods like "Getting Things Done".
iamrohit7oh.
iamrohit7cool. where exactly is that config file?
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineBe productive! Be-ee productive!
Published2016-07-17

Microsoft Software and Speed

Display

vdamewoodThis install for visual studio is taking forever.
rindolfvdamewood: lies! It takes at least forever and two weeks.
rindolfvdamewood: it will end a short time before the heat death of the universe.
rindolfvdamewood: one thing I learned is not to expect Microsoft to make fast software. They tend to take more than Intel gives.
ibouvousaime_lol
amigojapanyeah, i agree with rindolf , although last time I used VS it was reasonably fast
ibouvousaime_how is vs compared to Linux ides BTW, I never used vs since I moved to Linux a while ago and didn't turn back
YaiyanIt's not quite vim
rindolfamigojapan: Windows Update on Windows 7 is horribly slow and unresponsive. I gave up on updating my windows 7 partition on my laptop.
vdamewoodibouvousaime_: Visual studio is great if you're working with .NET.
rindolfamigojapan: I was told it's better on windows 10.
amigojapanvdamewood: I see
rindolfibouvousaime_: the Microsoft CL.EXE is crappy and non-standard-compliant.
rindolfibouvousaime_: the Microsoft CL.EXE compiler is crappy and non-standard-compliant.
amigojapanrindolf: I often hear the "it is better in [insert newest version of windows here]" I have grown untrustworthy of this claim
rindolfamigojapan: heh, true.
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2016-07-18

One’s relationship with C

Display

_ic2000that feeling when someone tells me they found python too hard so they're going to learn C because it's "easy and not outdated"...
Brando753_ic2000: its not outdated :P but yea that is a silly thing to say
_ic2000Brando753, but they were implying that python was outdated lol
Brando753_ic2000: yea that's pretty bad
Brando753_ic2000: python is awesome
Brando753I love C
Brando753I really do but I would never program what I do in python in C
magneticduckare you sure you love C?
Brando753magneticduck: its a love hate relationship :I
pulsei would like to see if i love C while I'm out at sea
Brando753lol
magneticduckI think a relationship a developer might have with C is less love, more codependency
nso95_he hits me because he loves me
Brando753nso95_: exactly!
magneticduckhe segfaults because he trusts me
gmuropSo you don't love C, C loves you
pulseC lovers ~-> clovers
pulseit was meant to be
rindolfmagneticduck: heh.
rindolfmagneticduck: LOL.
Brando753magneticduck: he works perfectly in the debugger then crashes normally because he loves you
Brando753all that C love
Brando753C would be miserable without valgrind
Brando753and GDB
rindolfBrando753: heh.
magneticduckwhen he corrupts all over my memory, he's just venting his anger from work
magneticduckit's normal, all languages do that
rindolfmagneticduck: heh.
nso95_I fell down the stairs
Brando753nso95_: did C push you?
rindolfnso95_: that sucks.
Brando753nso95_: or are you being serious, in which case sorry :I
nso95_nah, just kidding
Brando753:D
rindolfnso95_: ah.
nso95_I don’t have stairs
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineLone as Deep as the C
Published2016-07-28

EvilChristmas

Display

rindolfZuu: some people told me they think a Freecell/etc. solver is useless, but it has some uses and is my most popular project todate.
ZuuI’m mostly surprised that you can find the spirit to work on it for so long.
Zuulike, so many years.
ZuuBut as long as you find the time to distribute Santas presents, it's all good :P
rindolfZuu: I actually don't distribute Santa's presents - that is goody-two-shoes-reindeer's job. Being an EvilReindeer I do the opposite - I steal all the presents to maintain balance in the force.
bizarrefishrindolf: Do you have an evil master?
Zuurindolf, Noooooh!
bizarrefishPerhaps a jolly one?
rindolfbizarrefish: no! I'm my own master.
Zuurindolf, that's too evil! :<
rindolfbizarrefish: but I have some collaborators.
rindolfZuu, bizarrefish : we use EvilReinder-driven-EvilConspiracy
rindolfZuu: it's the ultimate EvilParadigm
Zuurindolf, i bet there's someone who just injects these thoughts into your head when Christmas is over, and just before Christmas starts, they inject rudolph thoughts into your head :>
rindolfZuu: my plan for this year is to cancel Christmas altogether.
rindolfand replace it with EvilChristmas
Zuurindolf, If i don't get presents, i know who's fault it is now :P
rindolfZuu: you'll get EvilPresents this time. ;-)
Brando753rindolf: D: but I liked non-evil Christmas, non-evil Santa Claus was always so nice and jolly
Brando753And getting presents which don't try and do evil unspeakable things to you is nice as well
* rindolfuses his magical EvilAntlers to convert Brando753 into EvilBrando753 so he'll like EvilChristmas
Brando753No...Must...Resist
* Brando753is now known as EvilBrando753
EvilBrando753damn
EvilBrando753:I
rindolfBrando753: resistance is futile
DrBenwayall your base are belong to us
rindolfEvilBrando753: heh, welcome to the EvilReindeer Evil World Domination Evil Conspiracy!
rindolfEvilBrando753: you're one of us now.
* vassagus(~vassagus@186.4.2.162) has joined
bizarrefish:/
EvilBrando753one of us, one of us, gooble gobble gooble gobble
parathon_Hello
ibouvousaimehello parathon_
ibouvousaimethis room has 722 people, yet so few are active
ibouvousaimebizarrefish: isn't it ohms ?
rindolfibouvousaime: that's the nature of IRC.
EvilBrando753ibouvousaime: man could you imagine if they were all active now?
EvilBrando753ibouvousaime: no one would be able to converse
EvilBrando753ibouvousaime: the buffers would move so fast
rindolfEvilBrando753: heh.
ibouvousaimeyeah true haha EvilBrando753
EvilBrando753you think I am joking, but it would be horrible, IRC was never designed for such high volume
ibouvousaimeI'm trying to imagine it in my mind at the moment hahaha
ibouvousaimeit would be like a terminal you use to play VLC videos
pyonibouvousaime: 1 Ohm = 1 Volt / 1 Ampère
ibouvousaimepyon: ohh
rindolfEvilBrando753: sup?
EvilBrando753rindolf: reading up on old censorship laws here in the US
EvilBrando753rindolf: good old wikipedia
EvilBrando753never realized there used to be a supreme court ruling stating free speech did not extend to films
EvilBrando753rindolf: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_Film_Corp._v._Industrial_Commission_of_Ohio
EvilBrando753it was a 9-0 ruling as well
EvilBrando753which is insane to think about
rindolfEvilBrando753: ah, I see.
rindolfEvilBrando753: wikipedia may be good, but it's not too old.
EvilBrando753I just want a printed copy of wikipedia for the sake of having one
EvilBrando753I hate trees with a passion
EvilBrando753:P
rindolfEvilBrando753: will this printed copy be a wiki as well?
EvilBrando753well it will have to update every time Wikipedia does https://what-if.xkcd.com/59/
pyonwhy do people call electric potential “voltage”? it's as if they called time “secondage” or distance “metrage”
pyonerrr
pyonnvm
pyoni meant “electric potential”
pyondifference*
jrslepakpyon: FWIW, "amperage" is sometimes used too
jrslepakpyon: I don't think I've ever heard "teslage" or "henryage" though :-P
ivegotasthmaownage
MisterSyntaxc
MisterSyntaxoops
MisterSyntaxi wanted to press ctrl+A,+C xD
MisterSyntaxhave fear for I is here!
MisterSyntaxthere we go
MisterSyntax(haha)
rindolfMisterSyntax: you iz here?
MisterSyntaxyez
rindolfMisterSyntax: are you here to ruin the day?
MisterSyntaxyez
rindolfMisterSyntax: awesome.
MisterSyntaxi brought demons and angry spirits with me
rindolfMisterSyntax: you sound Evil and I like Evil.
MisterSyntaxrindolf, want some? :D
nitrixThat's unfortunate. We needed more trolls, not demons.
* MisterSyntaxpoints at demon nr 3 and angry spirits 1 through 10
MisterSyntaxyou can have those
rindolfMisterSyntax: thanks!
MisterSyntaxrindolf, you’re welcome, and remember, create havoc and despair wherever you go!
rindolfMisterSyntax: thanks!
* MisterSyntaxlaughs evil-ish from his dungeon tower
rindolfMisterSyntax: isn't a dungeon supposed to be underground?
MisterSyntaxyeah but it's a tower.. in a dungeon
nitrixI put on my robe and wizard hat...
MisterSyntaxso imagine a great cave
MisterSyntaxwith numerous caves joined to it
MisterSyntaxand in that great cave there's a tower
MisterSyntaxand at the top of that tower is my room with a nice window overviewing the magma flow of the earth.
MisterSyntax;-)
rindolfMisterSyntax: I wonder how you get an Internet connection there.
MisterSyntaxeasy, wifi.
MisterSyntaxhahahahahah
rindolfMisterSyntax: heh.
MisterSyntaxno I'm tapping internet from an industrial fibercable
MisterSyntaxthey don't suspect a thing , the muggelz
MisterSyntaxcooling the hardware has been more of a problem though
MisterSyntaxxD
rindolfMisterSyntax: first world problems ;-)
rindolfunder world problems
MisterSyntaxrindolf, indeed haha
MisterSyntaxyeah it's a real 'hell'
MisterSyntaxi even have a muggle-zoo
MisterSyntaxgreat fun for the children
MisterSyntaxthey can interact with primates
MisterSyntaxmy cat just jumped on my lap and i felt like a true evil genius
MisterSyntaxhttp://prettycleverfilms.com/files/2013/05/4_blofelds_cat_many.jpg
rindolfMisterSyntax: heh.
rindolfMisterSyntax: I'm reminded of the film Bolt.
MisterSyntaxhaha rindolf
rindolfMisterSyntax: did you watch it?
MisterSyntaxyes
rindolfMisterSyntax: nice.
MisterSyntaxrindolf, i had to, my sisters' kids wanted to watch it whilst i was supervising
MisterSyntaxand i like to act like a child when watching movies or playing with toys so it was quite fun xD
MisterSyntaxeven built them a mayan pyramid afterwards made out of duplo lol
MisterSyntaxwell mayan
MisterSyntaxhttp://www.crystalinks.com/pyramidelcastillo.jpg << that kind
MisterSyntaxno clue if its mayan
rindolfMisterSyntax: nice.
MisterSyntaxthey were amazed and kept it for months, even built a whole city around it themselves
rindolfMisterSyntax: I think it is.
MisterSyntaxyeah rindolf i think as well but ain't sure xD
rindolfMisterSyntax: the Mayan Pyramids look nicer than the egyptian ones IMO.
MisterSyntaxrindolf, agreed.
MisterSyntaxhere have another demon..
* MisterSyntaxpoints at demon nr.4
* rindolfpets demon No. 4
MisterSyntaxbeware though, no. 4 has a tendency to bite
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2016-08-30

macOS

Display

rindolfApparently, Apple has decided to rename Mac OS X/OS X into "macOS".
rindolfMarketing people are crazy.
pyonikr
exio4I wanna study marketing
ConceptThoughts?
exio4random comments
ConceptThoughtsa good programmer should care less about marketing.. hire a rep
exio4I am no programmer
ConceptThoughtsyour no?
ConceptThoughtswhat are you doing in here then
exio4programming for money is so boring
exio4ConceptThoughts: it is a nice chat
ConceptThoughts;o;
ConceptThoughtslol
exio4first two words in the topic, Community Chat
ConceptThoughtsyes but that follow Programming implying its a programming community chat
exio4it is a / not and and
exio4an and*
ConceptThoughtswhat's that mean
pyonrindolf: i have no idea how marketing people think... what exactly is going on in their heads when they determine that renaming os x to macOS might increase sales or whatever apple is trying to achieve
pyonrindolf: perhaps it's for consistency with iOS?
exio4nvm
exio4pyon: I think they want to add curiosity
exio4"what changed?"
exio4exploit I mean
pyonexio4: no it can't be just that
exio4I am quite tired :(
rindolfpyon: see https://github.com/sindresorhus/awesome/pull/758#issuecomment-245765996
pyonrindolf: checking
pyonah so it was as i was thinking
pyonOK that makes sense
rindolfexio4: I feel that there's good marketing and there's bad marketing.
rindolfexio4: what is what is a matter of a lot of disagreement.
pyonexio4: nobody would be crazy enough to change the name of a core product just to make people wonder what happened
rindolfpyon: I hope that Apple's marketing department will die in a macFlame™!
rindolf;-)
pyonrindolf: lol
pyonrindolf: why does it particularly annoy you that apple renamed their product? :-O
pyons/product/desktop os/
rindolfpyon: well, I've seen many people misspell "Mac OS X" as "MacOSX" / "macOSX" / "macosx" / "macosX" / etc. and been trying to get them to use the correct spelling and capitalisation and now it's different and lamer.
SlashLifeIsn't it called iOS now?
pyonrindolf: lol
SlashLifeOr is that only for mobile devices?
pyonrindolf: i don't think it's terribly important if people spell it correctly
bacon1989no, that's iMobile, they renamed that yesterday in the conf
SlashLifeSeriously?
pyonrindolf: it's not a real English word, it's just a product name - the only ones who should be worried about properly spelling its name are apple themselves
rindolfSlashLife: iOS is different than Mac OS X.
rindolfpyon: I've invented a pun on Mac OS X - "Mac O'Sucks"
rindolfit's not too funny though.
pyonrindolf: lol
pyonrindolf: i always thought “x” was meant to be pronounced “ten”
rindolfpyon: maybe, but no one pronounces it that way.
rindolfpyon: again - people have crazy marketing ideas.
rindolfs/crazy/unrealistic/
pyonrindolf: heh
rindolfoh well, I'm off to sleep.
pyonrindolf: gn
rindolfpyon: heh, thanks
rindolfbye all
rindolfGood macNight!
pyonlol
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglinemacOS without the X still sux
Published2016-09-09

“Demons upon thee, Apple marketing department!”

Display

rindolfMisterSyntax: can you unleash some of your demons on Apple's marketing department?
MisterSyntaxrindolf, sure no problem, what region?
rindolfMisterSyntax: Cupertino.
rindolfif that's how it's spelled.
* MisterSyntaxsends over his "Elite Demons" legion towards Cupertino
rindolfI want a macSacare!
MisterSyntaxthey might take a while to arrive
MisterSyntaxhahaha macsacare xD
rindolfMisterSyntax: :-)
MisterSyntaxrindolf, but once they arrive they will inhabit their electronics and falsify their databases
MisterSyntaxalso there's one demon among them that will try to wiki-leak things
rindolfMisterSyntax: heh, heh.
rindolfMisterSyntax: you have a good selection of demons.
MisterSyntaxrindolf, thanks, I've trained them myself :) you wouldn't believe how stupid they used to be.. they'd just go around killing without a plan and end up getting killed by them hunters
rindolfMisterSyntax: sounds like you're a good teacher to these demons.
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Tagline“I want a macSacare!”
Published2016-09-11

Windows UpHate

Display

rindolfConceptThoughts: did you know that Microsoft is the organisation with the most open source pull-requests on GitHub? They appear to be taking open source seriously.
password2rindolf, seriously?
velcopassword2, https://octoverse.github.com/
rindolfpassword2: see https://octoverse.github.com/
password2wow
password2soon geeks will need to find new reasons to hate MS
rindolfpassword2: well, it's possible other companies have more open source code, but MS Received the most pull-reqs.
password2well just that they are showing up on the radar is already amazing
rindolfpassword2: heh, I'm trying not to expend too much energy hating companies.
password2rindolf, if only more people were like you
rindolfpassword2: or people for that matter.
rindolfpassword2: heh.
password2many many people simply use Linux because they dislike Microsoft
password2And defining yourself by what you hate is a slippery slope
rindolfpassword2: well, I use Linux because I like it better, and feel more productive in it, and because Windows Update is hatefully (!) slow.
rindolfpassword2: see http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/facts/Windows-Update/
password2yeah , I've read that
password2:D
password2i just disable my windows update
rindolfpassword2: heh.
password2solves 99% of my issues
rindolfpassword2: you got 1 problem but Windows Update ain't 99 of them.
njcomseci hate windows update
password2why?
njcomsecseems to break stuff
RouninIt's recently caused people to miss out on large parts of their exams
njcomsecat least on my computer
RouninSince they were answering them on Windows computers
njcomsecbut it might also be something to do with acer and McAfee
RouninThat of course decided to reboot for 1,5 hours during the exams
njcomsecthough the windows update is definitely the catalyst
rindolfRounin: "Windows Update ate my homework!"
Rouninrindolf: Brrr!
password2Rounin, Well
password2one would wonder why the people would set the settings on those pc to auto update
password2i blame the people using it
Rouninpassword2: They wouldn't... Windows set those settings
password2Rounin, you can change them
Rouninpassword2: That's not what we're discussing
njcomseci believe windows updates are forced with win 10
password2why not?
Rouninpassword2: If someone robs you, you can also choose to get shot if you so desire
RouninThat doesn't mean it's your choice to get robbed
njcomsecyou can disable them but i think it can cause problems
password2its seems like a cheap shot at windows
password2yeah
RouninNo, it doesn't
RouninIt doesn't seem like that at all
password2but no one was hurt
password2and no one plans on being robbed
RouninNo one plans on having their exam ruined by Windows Update either, as far as I know
password2idk why you bothered with that comparison
rindolfFor the life of me I cannot understand why Windows Update takes a while to do its thing *before* the system shutdown.
password2rindolf idk
password2BTW Rounin if you want to blame default setting on windows , you apparently have very little experience with Linux
password2because that's like half the trouble with Linux
Rouninpassword2: That's not true either... I don't apparently have very little experience with Linux
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2016-09-18

Should I use BitKeeper or GitHub?

Display

fanfanWhen should I use BitKeeper (peer-to-peer) and when should I use GitHub (client-server) for my software project?
yawkatfanfan: git is distributed
rindolffanfan: why do you want to use BitKeeper?
rindolffanfan: and git is distributed too.
fanfanrindolf, I didn't understand.
rindolffanfan: git is peer-to-peer - just like BitKeeper.
fanfanrindolf, so when should I use Git and when should I use GitHub?
rindolffanfan: there are other git services aside from GitHub and you can set up one of your own.
rindolffanfan: you normally use git to interact with GitHub.
fanfanrindolf, I don't really know what should I do, can please guide me.
rindolffanfan: use GitHub if you like it - if not - use a different git service provider.
fanfanrindolf, well I choose GitHub because there are already millions of people using it, so it seems trustworthy.
baumfanfan: same for bitbucket and others
fanfanbaum, I will just use GitHub before I get crazy in all these options.
baumfanfan: you could also just use git
rindolffanfan: it seems like a good choice at the moment.
rindolfbaum: we told him that.
fanfanbaum, So Git is better than BitKeeper?
catbadgergit is better than everything
rindolfbaum: this seems like one of those 'Should I use jQuery or JavaScript?' questions.
baumrindolf: oh i see, didn't read up. and yes it does
fanfanrindolf, I get it now, I people use GitHub because they don't have a server or online-storage, and they don't want to. But I have a server so I can just use BitKeeper.
rindolffanfan: well, BitKeeper was made open source only relatively recently, which caused git (and previously other FOSS VCSes) to become popular instead.
rindolffanfan: why do you want to use bitkeeper?
fanfanrindolf, because 15 years of development
rindolffanfan: you can set up a git service on your server as well.
fanfanrindolf, and is supported by a big company
rindolffanfan: well, git probably had more contributors.
rindolffanfan: which big company supports BK?
fanfanrindolf, just please tell me, for god's sake, should I use GitHub or Git?
baumfanfan: if you are judging a source control solution by its company and years of existence maybe check out Visual SourceSafe :)
rindolffanfan: I suggest you use git and you can opt to use GitHub as well.
rindolfbaum: heh, I laughed-out-loud from that comment.
rindolfbaum: can I tweet it?
fanfanrindolf, is GitHub best of its kind?
baumrindolf: go for it :)
mpetchused PVCS in an enterprise environment for many years with Nortel/BNR
rindolfbaum: thanks!
fanfanokay guys, I will just use GitHub, before I get crAZY, now everyone shut up.
rindolffanfan: great.
mpetchyou sure you want to use github?
rindolfmpetch: be careful or you'll make him be like the child monster who wants to be "there" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m-kbBamg_U
mpetchhaha
rindolfmpetch: :-)
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineBit by the Git Hub
Published2016-10-06

rindolf’s bad C code

Display

rindolfIn fc-solve's C source code I have 2,738 "const"s vs. 1,521 "if"s
rindolfand I have 1,344 "int"s
imodethat's 5,376 bytes!
Felishiarindolf, D:
Felishiahow can you have 0,738 of a constant?
rindolfFelishia: 2,738 consts
rindolfFelishia: over 2 thousand
rindolfFelishia: it's not a decimal dot
Felishiabut you put a comma there
Felishiait's a decimal comma
rindolfFelishia: yes, for the thousands
Felishiano for the thousands it's a dot
rindolfFelishia: no, not in English.
rindolfor in Hebrew
FelishiaD: wat
schallyI have 0.738 of a const
schallybecause it only appears with certain typedefs
rindolfshakalaka: good for you!
schallyor #defines rather
rindolfschally: can I borrow 0.002 of a const?
schallyrindolf: go ahead
rindolfschally: thanks!
rindolfHmmm... I gave 1,156 "endif"s - lots of preprocessor stuff. :-(
rindolfand I have 1,102 "instance"s
Felishiarindolf, what a bad code! ewwww!
Felishiasuch a bad C grammar
rindolfI have 864 "void"s
rindolfFelishia: only 1,145 "endif"s now after I extracted a macro
rindolf1,140 "endif"s now
rindolfFelishia: 1,128 "endif"s now!
Felishiarindolf, you gotta bring it down to 2 D:
rindolfFelishia: heh.
Felishiaif windows... if unix...
rindolfFelishia: I have #ifdef _cplusplus extern "C" { #endif on every header
rindolf45 files changed, 1904 insertions(+), 2306 deletions(-)
rindolf====> what a day
Felishiarindolf, what you only commit once a day
rindolfFelishia: no.
rindolfFelishia: this is git diff --stat
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineThe end of the endifs is not so near
Published2016-11-02

You’ve got the touch

Display

* bizarrefishwas in Malaysia last year :D
bizarrefishIt's quite nice
bizarrefishVery friendly people
differentMonsterbizarrefish : what about you ? well Malaysia is hot as hell.
bizarrefishI am in the UK, which is not hot
bizarrefishMalaysia was for a work trip
bizarrefishWas pretty cool
bizarrefishI think it's cool how Malaysian children stared at me
bizarrefish(I'm 6'4 and white)
bizarrefishChinese people stare as well. I like that they find me so interesting.
Yukenbizarrefish, if a Japanese guy passed through a rural African village where everyone is black and 6'+
Yukenhe'd probably be stared at as well! :p
bizarrefishheh
differentMonsterbizarrefish : XD we will find you interesting for sure ~
bizarrefish6ft4in is quite tall, even in the UK. It's a shame nobody feels like they can stare
bizarrefishheh
differentMonsterbizarrefish :cause you be different if you don't wear or sound like we do.
Yukenbizarrefish, what if they have a height fetish and start staring at you ominously?
Yuken:^)
bizarrefishWhen I go to very different countries, I just worry that I might accidentally be rude.
Myrl-sakibizarrefish: your rude
bizarrefishYuken: Then let them stare :) I'm happy for them to. Just no touchy :D
bizarrefishMyrl-saki: I'm sorry ;.;
* Yukenslowly moves to the UK and stalks bizarrefish then.
bizarrefishMyrl-saki: You can touch me if that makes it okay again
Myrl-sakibizarrefish: your lewd
* rindolftouches bizarrefish
bizarrefishAh
differentMonsterbizarrefish : like no touching , you break it you buy it XD
rindolfusing the unix touch command
bizarrefishWhy would you want to stalk a British person? We don't even have health insurance
bizarrefishtouch rindolf
bizarrefishsudo touch rindolf
rindolfbizarrefish: touchée!
bizarrefishwhile true; do touch rindolf; done
rindolfbizarrefish: you are not in the sudoers list
YukenThis incident has been reported.
Myrl-sakilol
* bizarrefishremoves HDD, plugs into other computer, chroot, touch rindolf
rindolfbizarrefish: heh, you're insistent
rindolfbizarrefish: what if the partitions are encrypted?
bizarrefishrindolf: I don't have to touch you in your home directory. I can touch you anywhere. In multiple places.
bizarrefishcd /tmp; touch rindolf
rindolfbizarrefish: that's the RealRindolf™!
rindolfbizarrefish: I only have one place in the file system.
rindolfOneTruePath™!
bizarrefishMakeTmpGreatAgain(TM)!
rindolfbizarrefish: nice
rindolfbizarrefish: heh
rindolfbizarrefish: tmp was never great!
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2016-11-21

What is "NP-complete"?

Display

rindolfRashad: generalised Freecell was shown to be NP-complete
RashadNP-complete means?
rindolfRashad: here?
RashadYup.
RashadJust came back.
rindolfRashad: did you read about NP-completeness?
RashadNope.
RashadWhat is it?
rindolfRashad: see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NP-completeness
RashadToo much math.
RashadOn wikipedia.
rindolfRashad: see http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=memoir-from-a-Physics-lesson-in-the-9th-grade
Rashadrindolf: Sometimes formality can make things more complex than they really are.
rindolfRashad: true
Rashadrindolf: Can you give me a simple introduction?
rindolfRashad: well, do you know what polynomial time is?
RashadNo.
rindolfRashad: hmmm...
RashadI know what a polynomial is.
RashadIs this related to the BigO notation?
rindolfRashad: yes.
rindolfRashad: polynomial time is O(P(N)) where P(N) is a polynomial of N
RashadOK.
RashadI am trying to think of an example..
sbrgtwo nested loops
rindolfRashad: so it can be O(n^2) or O(n) or O(n*log(n)) or even O(n**100)
RashadAha.
RashadWhat is 'n'? Number of operations?
RashadUmm.
RashadProbably not.
rindolfRashad: the length of the input
RashadYeah that makes sense.
rindolfRashad: OK.
RashadI remember stuff about search algorithms.
Rashadn is the number of entries in an array, for example.
sbrgyep
rindolfRashad: now, some problems' *verification algorithm* is polynomial and these problems are called "NP"
RashadVerification algorithm?
rindolfRashad: verification means you verify that the solution is correct after given one.
RashadAha.
sbrgRashad: for example, if I give you a list and tell you that it's sorted, you can verify in polynomial time that it is correct
sbrgby simply checking each pair of elements
RashadA solution in freecell is a series of moves?
rindolfRashad: yes
Rashadsbrg: I see.
RashadOK so NP *complete* means?
rindolfRashad: now, some problems are NP-hard which means that each of them can be used to solve any problem in NP after a polynomial transformation.
sbrgand NP complete are problems which are both in NP and NP-hard
rindolfRashad: yes, what sbrg said,
sbrgso, NP: a problem that, when given a solution, you can verify that it is correct in polynomial time
sbrgNP-hard: a class of problems that can be converted to each other
RashadOK.
RashadOK.
RashadSo NP-hard does not imply NP?
rindolfRashad: no, not necessarily
kadobanNo, problems that are harder than NP are in NP-hard too
RashadAhhh
RashadNow that makes sense.
Rashad*at least NP hard*
rindolfRashad: for instance, the Halting Problem is NP hard.
RashadOK now everything is in place for me.
rindolfRashad: good
kadobanIt gets complicated because we don't know the actual hard relationships between many of the complexity classes, like we don't actually know if P = NP or if there are problems in NP that aren't in P. Which leads to the famous question you've likely heard of.
RashadBut I am interested by how you can map NP-hard problems from one to the other.
rindolfRashad: there's a 1 million USD prize for proving whether P is NP or not,
Rashadkadoban: It got pretty philosophical fast :P
RashadP = ?
rindolfRashad: P is the class of polynomial problems
kadobanP, the complexity class above, which is problems you can solve in polynomial time on a deterministic turing machine.
RashadI am a bit confused now..
kadobanNP, problems you can verify solutions to in polynomial time on a deterministic turing machine.
RashadOK so NP is about verification, P is about solving. Correct?
rindolfRashad: well yes, but you often want to find good solutions for NP problems
RashadWhat do you mean?
kadobanCorrect, though that's really just a definition used for picking which complexity class. In general we're still interested in getting the answer to problems in NP
RashadAh.
sbrgRashad: P is the class of problems that can be *solved* in polynomial time. NP is the class of problems *whose solution can be verified* in polynomial time.
RashadSo the concern is: Can you find a solution to NP problems faster than you can verify the given solution?
sbrgRashad: Assuming you mean "faster or as fast", well.. you just asked whether P = NP
RashadI see.
sbrgif you have an answer to that question, someone will give you a million dollars
RashadBut how is that not a philosophical question, though?
RashadLet me rephrase that.
kadobanIt depends, what's a "philosophical question"?
sbrgkadoban: that is ^
sbrglol
RashadWouldn't a solution imply a way to verify it?
kadobanBut if you're asking if it has practical consequences, it does, potentially.
sbrgRashad: Well, take sudoku as an example
RashadOK!
sbrgIf I give you a solved sudoku, how long would it take for you to verify it?
Rashadkadoban: What kind of consequences?
sbrgit's the same every time. you just make sure that 1 to 9 appears in all rows, columns and boxes
Rashadsbrg: OK
sbrghowever, does seeing the solution tell you how you solve it?
sbrgHow as in, which steps
RashadOK that's exactly what I am asking.
kadobanRashad: For example if P = NP, then quite a lot of cryptography isn't very well founded. That would mean there were "quick" (in one way of speaking) algorithms to solve hard problems that crypto relies on, such as discrete logarithm and integer factorization.
RashadHow do you get an answer that is not completely random that in the same process of figuring it out you are unable to replicate the same logic into how you verify it?
RashadAnd we're still talking about computers here so I am not sure if Newton's apple aha moment counts...
GamahRashad: sometimes it's easier to assert the validity a solution (P) than it is to explain it (NP)
Gamahor... those reversed
Gamahi forget.
sbrgRashad: well, how easy is it to verify a sudoku? it's very easy. it's the same steps every time. however, does that knowledge of the rules of the game allow you to also solve the puzzle in an equal number of moves it took you to verify it?
Rashadsbrg: The solution however is ultimately guided by the rules of verification.
Gamahsbrg: poorly formed... technically speaking it can be easier to solve some given sudoku puzzles than it is to verify they are solved
RashadUnless it is a complete shot in the dark.
sbrgGamah: and there are lists that are already sorted. that doesn't change the lower bound for sorting. what's your point?
sbrgRashad: Yes, it is. so one would think that it would be possible
sbrgand as Gamah pointed out, some sudokus are very easy to solve, while others are much harder
GamahRashad: no p
Gamah:P
sbrgthe question is whether you can give an algorithm that guarantees that you can solve every sudoku within some time limit(in terms of the size of the input) that performs no more steps than you would verifying a sudoku
Gamahsbrg: I'm saying you can't apply the act of solving and the act of verifying a "solved" sudoku to p=np because in the space of sudoku, either task could be on either side of the equation
Gamahdefine "steps"
Gamahbecause it always takes less steps to solve than verify... from some perspective
Rashadrindolf: So solitaire is O(n)?
sbrgGamah: you don't seem to understand complexity theory. we're talking about sudokus in general. I can verify *any* sudoku in some bounded polynomial time
RashadAh sorry, I meant verifying a solitaire solution is O(n)*.
Gamahyou can also solve any sudoku
sbrgthe question is whether I can somehow use the rules of verification to help me create a solution in at most as much time as it would take me to verify it. i.e. P vs NP
workmad3iirc, NP-complete problems are ones where verifying a solution is polynomial time, but calculating a solution is non-polynomial
rindolfRashad: there are many variants of card solitaire
Gamahsbrg: but the number of sudoku permutations and solutions is not unbound...
rindolfRashad: generalised Freecell is NP-complete
rindolfRashad: which assumes you have n ranks of cards instead of 13 (ace-to-king)
sbrgGamah: for a 9x9 sudoku, no, obviously not. but we are talking about sudoku in general
Gamahhmm.
sbrgRashad: at any rate, the point is that we just don't know whether we can use the information that lets us verify solutions in polynomial time to also construct solutions in polynomial time
Gamahi feel like sudoku is still a search problem (IE: rainbow table)
Gamahand not really applicable
workmad3Gamah: and how long would it take you to compute that rainbow table?
sbrgby your logic, I can solve any problem that way.
sbrgi can just create a database of all sorted lists.
Gamahsure...
sbrg.. just like i can create a database of all sudokus. if we fix n, then yes, it is bounded and you can just solve it in constant time.
kadobansbrg: Well, not really, you still have lookup time.
kadobanOh, for fixed n I guess that doesn't matter.
sbrgconstant time where a unit is defined to be the lookup time
sbrgthere you go!
Gamahworkmad3: that would depend on how well i could optimize the verification algo
sbrgit's all about context
workmad3sbrg: well, you can solve it in constant time, assuming the existence of an oracle :)
Gamahthe $1m question just says "a computer" and "in polynomial time"
Gamahit doesn't say i can't spend years precomputing the search space
Gamah:)
sbrgi don't think you understand what P vs NP means
workmad3Gamah: assuming the existence of an oracle is generally not classed as a solution to P vs NP
Gamahi thought the smiley implied i was being pedantic
workmad3Gamah: otherwise it would have been solved years ago :P
Gamahworkmad3: well i was just going to use oracle DB
Gamah:)
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2016-11-25

JetBrains’ Products

Display

Kake_FiskAny cool JetBrains programs I should try out except for CLion?
rindolfKake_Fisk: I wish JetBrains would have sold and developed one IDE instead of several variations on the same one.
Kake_FiskYeah!
Kake_FiskWill probably happen in the future. Visual Studio were also like that at one point if I recall correctly
q_qam i only the one who thinks pycharm is a heap of shit?
Kake_Fiskq_q: Well, I couldn't even get pycharm to work
kadobanq_q: I dunno, everyone seems to love it. Never tried it.
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2017-01-31

Whose fault is it?

Display

sir_galahad_ado/
vdamewoodsir_galahad_ad: \o
alvanson\o/
rindolfsir_galahad_ad: hi.
alvanson\o/ |v| o= /o\
rindolfsir_galahad_ad: sup?
sir_galahad_adhi rindolf not much is up, working on learning mysql
rindolfsir_galahad_ad: ah
rindolfsir_galahad_ad: I'm still feeling ill
rindolfsir_galahad_ad: well, yesterday and the day before were better
sir_galahad_adI'm sorry rindolf :(
rindolfsir_galahad_ad: thanks!
rindolfsir_galahad_ad: it's most likely not your fault
sir_galahad_adbutterflies...
vdamewoodrindolf: I've been secretly adding arsenic to your coffee. Is that why you're sick?
rindolfvdamewood: :-) heh , I don't drink coffee
rindolfvdamewood: perhaps you also added that coffee with arsenic to my water
vdamewoodThen whose coffee was it?
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2017-02-08

Unforgivable

Display

ChrisWarrickks
ChrisWarricksorry, wrong tab
rindolfChrisWarrick: I can never forgive you for using the wrong tab! ;-) J/K - everything's cool.
FManhowever, there is a wrong tab tax payable to me
ChrisWarrickrindolf: (arguably, wrong machine/screen/app/everything, because that went to irssi on screen 1 instead of the windows VM on screen 2)
rindolfFMan: heh
rindolfChrisWarrick: you will go to hell for using the wrong window!
rindolfChrisWarrick: no redemption for you!
Zuurindolf, you mean, no Christmas presents?
rindolfZuu: no Chanukkah coins either!
ZuuOhnoes! :O
* rindolfis away
ZuuHe's hiding all the Chanukkah coins, i just know it!
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2017-02-26

Blaming everyone

Display

Zuu_My monitor is noisy!
* Zuu_blames all of you
rindolfZuu_: guilty as charged! I made your monitor noisy because I hate you
Zuu_Arrrr *shakes fist at Evil rindolf*
rindolfZuu_: it was a late EvilChristmas present
* Zuu_wraps it back up, and sends it back to Santa :P
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2017-03-10

Putting the U in "FAQ"

Display

rindolfairking_: hi, see https://github.com/shlomif/Freenode-programming-channel-FAQ/blob/master/FAQ.mdwn#i-tried-joining-a-different-channel-for-help-but-i-could-not---why
vdamewoodI wish we called them Frequently Uttered Questions instead of Asked.
rindolfvdamewood: FUQ?
rindolfI don't give a FUQ
vdamewoodrindolf: FUQ off.
rindolfvdamewood: :-)
vdamewoodFrequent utterances concerning knowledge.
rindolfvdamewood: heh
vdamewoodbeaky: Read the FUQing manual?
wedrFrequently unwanted common knowledge.
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2017-06-25

Biological Garbage Collection

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jkbbwrI'm aiming to implement a chunk of a runtime and maybe a garbage collector and then finish the emitter to spit out QBE
FManTropyxmy apartment badly needs garbage collection (hi, BTW)
listeFManTropyx: no-op garbage collector's an option :)
adscyou could add some rats, they take care of the organic garbage
adscor rather, they compound multiple types of organic garbage into a single type
workmad3adsc: and then add some cats to convert the rat problem into an extra type?
adscwhich rat problem?
workmad3adsc: the rat problem caused by introducing rats to solve your garbage problem :P
adscrats are a problem?
adschmmm
adscyes, it seems one cat per 5 rats should solve any "rat problems"
wedrSo, you're saying for those who live near a farm, they need to get 65 cats?
adscyes
adscalthough I guess it doesn't scale up linearly
rindolfheh
adsceach additional cat probably raises the number of total rats that can be dealt with
adscso two cats might be able to deal with more than 10 rats
rindolfpoor rats
adscalso you should make sure the cats are neutered, or you will soon have to introduce dogs to solve a cat problem
wedrFibonacci Sequence for cats -> rats problem.
wedr5 cats -> 60+ rats killed.
wedrWait, I'm wrong, get 15 cats.
adscbut it seems he has to deal with over 300 rats
wedr65 cats it is.
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2017-06-25

Upgrading

Display

nickname95https://dan-ball.jp/en/javagame/rockets/ , this website has a game, i would like to know how it was made, what technologies etc, its pretty old
nickname95it says html5 and Java applet
nickname95so if its in html5/js does that mean that i can see the source code of the game ?
* rindolfupgrades nickname95 to nickname98
* VicMackeyupgrades nickname98 to nicknameNT
rindolfVicMackey: heh
* vdamewoodupgrades nickname98 to nickname98SE
VicMackeyShoot.
rindolfvdamewood: heh
vdamewoodVicMackey: Back in the Windows 9x and NT4 days, Windows to Windows NT wasn't exactly a proper upgrade.
VicMackeyWindows to Windows is usually never a proper upgrade
VicMackeyI also have to say that I jumped from 98 to Xp
BatholithYeah, you can't really upgrade from Windows. Windows to Linux/Mac would be a terrible downgrade.
vdamewoodWell, versions of Windows NT prior to XP were missing some things that made Windows not-NT more usable at home, I think.
rindolfvdamewood: VicMackey: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKy9fV_zX_o
VicMackeyrindolf how embarrassing
rindolfVicMackey: :-)
rindolfVicMackey: it was the start of a brave new era!
VicMackeyThat's when he decided he had to quit being the CEO of that company
VicMackeyAnd retire
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineLet me upgrade ya
Published2017-07-14

Pluralism

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vdamewoodGeDaMo: So, I, for example, showed them code for a DFA I wrote and explained how DFA's work.
bananaJoeDFA? Department of Foreign Affairs?
rindolfbananaJoe: deterministic finite automata
vdamewoodautomaton
vdamewood(automata is plural, automaton is singular)
rindolfyour mom is plural. ;-)
rindolfJ/K
* bananaJoewhistles in amazement!
bananaJoethat's some abbreviation!
bananaJoeautomama :P
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2017-07-15

Progressive Web Applications

Display

ZajtHello! Is this UML diagram https://go.gliffy.com/go/share/sm4frpobsubifu6j6jv8 a correct example of the factory method design pattern?
rindolfZajt: is this homework?
Zajtrindolf kind of, it's from school work but the purpose is not to make a UML diagram. I just try to explain the pattern by making this figure, but needs to be sure that it's correct so I don't miss anything in it
rindolfZajt: ah
rindolfZajt: it figures that it is schoolwork
SPEEDRAC1STUML's main purpose is to keep CS profs employed and students busy
rindolfSPEEDRAC1ST: heh
iawcThough the profs still suffer a concussion when doing both at the same time.
Zajtrindolf what do you mean?
rindolfZajt: UML and Design Patterns are not oof much interest elsewhere
SPEEDRAC1STdesign patterns became a buzzword recently
SPEEDRAC1STalso, "anti-pattern"
Zajtyeah but did you read what I wrote above? I do it for a report in school so I have not an exercise that says "Write this UML-diagram", but I have done it myself just to illustrate the problem. But I want to make sure it's correct what I have done
Groogydesign patterns and anti-pattern are super old buzzwords
Groogywhat do you mean recently
Groogythe last 30 years?
SPEEDRAC1STrecently there was a resurgence of those
Groogylol okay
SPEEDRAC1ST"we're kewl, we use JavaScript design patterns"
GroogyDesignu-patteru-jutsu
SPEEDRAC1STare you a pattern-ninja?
GroogyHAI!
SPEEDRAC1STthen join our innovative revolutionary startup which has lots of hype and VC monies
GroogyActually I think it is good to read about design patterns and anti-patterns, to just have in back of your mind. But to actively try and "apply" the "molds" is not really the intent of it
SPEEDRAC1STsome of those are neat. the ones that are about complexity management, and organization
SPEEDRAC1STbut most are barely necessary
SPEEDRAC1STbut overall, WTF would one need design patterns to make yet another web app?
rindolfSPEEDRAC1ST: is it a disruptive startup?
SPEEDRAC1STit's about to disrupt at least 3 industries
rindolfSPEEDRAC1ST: heh
rockman37Has anyone made a webapp for making webapps yet?
bookwormWordPress
rockman37Hah.
Groogybut from a glance it looks like you have what I would expect out of a factory
SPEEDRAC1STAI can drive cars, but can't make web apps yet
rockman37My friend's friend is apparently working on a mobile app for making mobile apps.
rockman37(Which my friend plans to use to make a mobile app.)
PlanckWalkThere are tons of apps for making apps
SPEEDRAC1STPlanckWalk: none of them are functional, since an emulator is required to run one
SPEEDRAC1STalso, they don't solve the distribution problem
merijnHell, people can't even make decent apps yet...
SPEEDRAC1STdefine decent
SPEEDRAC1STInstagram and Snapchat are totally decent for uploading food pics and duckface pics
merijnSPEEDRAC1ST: They're several gigabytes larger than they should be
ongysnapchat? isn't that exclusively for sexting?
ongyyou have phone apps that are multiple gigabytes?
SPEEDRAC1STmerijn: so is all software these days, except for embedded
SPEEDRAC1STongy: if you include the SDK, yes
merijnongy: I'd like to introduce you to my friend, the hyperbole :)
SPEEDRAC1STmobile apps themselves are 100s of MB
rockman37Which is still huge for a program.
rts-sanderthese apps take hundreds of terabytes to display a single button!
rindolfmerijn: are they a boy or a girl? ;)
rockman37fuck buttons
Groogywell something I guess? I don't really know the task you are having from your teacher
merijnrts-sander: Ah, I see you too have downloaded slack?
merijnrindolf: Probably a boy, hyperbole is constantly 1-upping people ;)
SPEEDRAC1STGroogy: Zajt: http://www.developermemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/java-problem-factory.jpg
rindolfmerijn: :)
rockman37SPEEDRAC1ST: rofl
rindolfSPEEDRAC1ST: heh, still funny
rts-sanderhahaha Java is verbose hahahaha
merijnrts-sander: I refuse to download atrocities that spend 500+MB memory just to run IRC >.>
rockman37I refuse to download atrocities full stop.
merijnirssi is taking 8MB after running for, like, 2 weeks straight in 15 channels...
rts-sanderlightweight software is the best!
SPEEDRAC1STmerijn: Firefox sometimes takes 2+GB of RAM
rts-sanderlets port it all to web applications
xssposedwhat about weechat
ongyI had chrome at >3G. fun times
xssposedi use it a lot
xssposedits nice
SPEEDRAC1STFacebook tab sometimes eats 100s of MB running all of the tracking and ad JS code
GroogyI've had weechat running for more than a mount without restart
Groogy25mb
SPEEDRAC1STrts-sander: heard of progressive web apps?
merijnongy: WTF are you doing? Chrome is at, like, 1GB for me with 40 or so tabs open in 4 windows
BatholithChrome likes to eat RAM, that is known
Zajthaha SPEEDRAC1ST
rindolfhere kwin_x11 consumes more RAM than firefox - no idea why
xssposedthere's an extension that counteracts Chrome's hunger for RAM. i forget the name of it, but it saves 90%
merijnChrome's memory usage is increased a bit by the fact that it uses 1 process per tab, but it's not that drastic. Most of the gross memory usage that people blame on Chrome is just really "websites being shitty in the 2010s"
rockman37rindolf: Is it huge, or is Firefox small?
xssposedhas my browser running faster
rindolfrockman37: well, i recently restarted ff
rockman37rindolf: Ah.
rindolfxssposed: heh, nice nickname
SPEEDRAC1STwebsites also have gotten a lot fatter
SPEEDRAC1STprobably due to ads
rockman37We should stop feeding them or something.
xssposedrindolf: heh, ty
* rindolfrecently reduced the HTML of his site
rindolfusing https://github.com/kangax/html-minifier
SPEEDRAC1STalso, JS frameworks and libs are 100+K LoC
rindolfSPEEDRAC1ST: are they webscale?
SPEEDRAC1STmaybe. they're responsive for sure
rindolfhttp://shlomifishswiki.branchable.com/slash-dev-null_is_WebScale/
SPEEDRAC1STwebscale is usually said about databases
rindolfSPEEDRAC1ST: both responsive and progressive? Impossibru
rindolfyou can only have at most 1
SPEEDRAC1STprogressive is the new buzzword, gotta replace them to keep the hype alive
merijnMan, the one JS keyword that pisses me off the most is "isomorphic", because that's not what isomorphic means, you jackasses
rindolfSPEEDRAC1ST: are progressive web apps webscale enough?
ongyI want a /dev/null directory to copy things into...
SPEEDRAC1STrindolf: come on. webscale is so 5 years ago :)
rindolfongy: use asynchronous writes
okuumerijn: I edited the “isomorphism” tag on Stack Overflow to explicitly refer to, you know, isomorphisms. :-p
rindolfSPEEDRAC1ST: heh
merijnokuu: <3
merijnongy: Why?
SPEEDRAC1STmerijn: is it a reserved keyword?
merijnSPEEDRAC1ST: No, it's "running the same code on the client as on the server", or some shit
SPEEDRAC1STJS's scope pisses me off the most. something as simple as accessing a variable inside foreach is complicated
SPEEDRAC1STmerijn: oh, you mean buzzword
merijns/'s scope//
merijnSPEEDRAC1ST: Yeah, I haven't had my coffee yet
okuuSPEEDRAC1ST: But there is an excuse - JavaScript was designed in 10 days!
rindolfongy: mount /dev/null as /home
okuuErrr, designed and implemented.
SPEEDRAC1STokuu: because Netscape managers rejected a Scheme-based language. and Self-based one too
okuurindolf: Double-checking my solutions to my topology handout.
merijnI respect Brendan Eichman, because for something designed and implemented in 10 days JS is an impressive feat. But as language...god...fuck it
merijnokuu: Sounds more fun that figuring out how to formulate my API to work with 3 slightly different libraries that don't have a common API :)
SPEEDRAC1STmerijn: he proposed to use Scheme, Netscape said "no way". Then he decided to prank them with JS. and now we're paying for it
ongyrindolf: still a file, so I can't access /home/ongy
ongymerijn: because I wanted to direct an output directory to /dev/null before and it didn't work
okuumerijn: At least I'm allowed (in fact, required) to make sense.
merijnokuu: Trying to make my library play nicely with pipes, conduits, and just regular old forM/mapM...it's...tricky :p
rindolfSPEEDRAC1ST: it needed to resemble Java
merijnongy: I don't quite understand what "copying to /dev/null" is supposed to do, though?
rindolfmerijn: oooh - buzzwords
mniipbut those are words
merijnrindolf: Hmm?
ongymerijn: why are you doing that? is it something you want others to use?
rindolfmerijn: "pipes", "conduits"
okuurindolf: Haskell plumbing libraries.
merijnrindolf: They are haskell libraries :)
ongymerijn: ignore all output that should be written there. sometimes I need that
merijnongy: Because I use a mix of pipes and conduits in different projects and I find myself reinventing the same boilerplate
merijnongy: And I wanna be done with it once and for all
SPEEDRAC1STI've learned about Cloud Haskell a few months ago
SPEEDRAC1STI guess they chose the name for marketing reasons
mniipmerijn, that "once and for all" bit sounds unconvincing
okuurindolf: Basically, so that you can replace “going crazy debugging” with “doing crazy with types” when doing stream processing. Although the “going crazy debugging” is sometimes not completely avoided.
merijnmniip: Why?
rindolfokuu: heh, sounds nasty
okuurindolf: Yeah, but it's how Haskellers think.
rindolfokuu: haskellers are crazy?
okuurindolf: Everyone is crazy in their own way.
mniipI must say haskell debugging sucks
rindolfokuu: true
iawcokuu: Haskell is just an API for common structures.
mniipwhy does everyone try to mimic imperative program debugging
merijnokuu: To be fair, conduits/pipes DO make some tasks that are really obnoxious in other languages really nice
iawcOr is that Ruby?
mniipfunctional semantics need to reflect respectively in the debugger
iawcThey seem the same in a way.
rockman37iawc: Ruby and Haskell?
merijnrindolf: Basically, they abstract over "I want to stream process data from a pipe/socket/file/whatever in constant memory"
SPEEDRAC1STsounds like a job for a queue
okuumerijn: Then it turns out you want to backtrack, and everything goes to hell.
rindolfrockman37: reminds me of that guy who said Visual Basic was essentially the same as C++
merijnokuu: So, don't do that then :)
merijnokuu: I have plenty of cases where I don't need that
merijnokuu: If you need backtracking, use STM or something
okuumerijn: I have to admit, when you don't need to backtrack, pipes and conduit are very nice.
rindolfrockman37: and then went on to try to create a lossless audio compression that could compress a 40 MB WAV file into 20 kB
rockman37rindolf: Well, I wouldn't touch either :p
merijnSPEEDRAC1ST: Yeah, except that all the annoying bits of getting data, putting them in queues, adapting your code to read from them, etc. has all been done for you
rockman37rindolf: Lossless?
mniipsomething something yoctoparsec
rindolfrockman37: yes
SPEEDRAC1STmerijn: by the corresponding libraries?
merijnSPEEDRAC1ST: They're basically a bunch of tools for turning stuff like a parser for a single object you wrote into one that gets fed data on demands and output an object every time it finishes (with further tools to incrementally process those)
merijnSPEEDRAC1ST: It's not earth-shattering rocket science. It's just a bunch of really convenient tools that I haven't found an adequate replacement for in other languages
okuumerijn: Probably because they aren't conveniently expressible in other languages. :-p
mniipeverything is possible when you have programmable semicolons
rindolfrockman37: i think he was the one who was going on about that Planet Source Code thingy
okuuSPEEDRAC1ST: Think iterators on steroids.
SPEEDRAC1STmerijn: OK. I haven't had that exactly problem, but if I had I'd use something like Elixir's GenStage
rockman37Programmable semicolons sound nasty.
rockman37rindolf: Haven't heard of that.
mniiprockman37, ish, perl does that all the time
rockman37"4.3 million lines of source code examples and apps to build from." Hmm...
rockman37mniip: Interesting.
iawchowdy do dat?
mniipanyway, I remotely remember someone saying that monads (their do-block syntax specifically) are just programmable semicolons
rindolfrockman37: under a contradictory licence
rockman37rindolf: Serves users right, I say.
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2017-09-25

SQL interfaces

Display

AbleBaconmpDrive->getLoc().list[i]->stats.getVal()->val; sometimes i wish object oriented programming was never invented
GeDaMoOnly sometimes? :P
rindolfAbleBacon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Demeter
AbleBaconoh my god this Law of Demeter is exactly the opposite of what we're doing
patientplatypusdoes anyone know how to programmatically create a subtable in postgres?
rindolfpatientplatypus: not off hand
rindolfpatientplatypus: is there an sql syntax for that?
rindolfAbleBacon: heh
GeDaMoWould a subtable be like a view?
patientplatypuserrr....
patientplatypusi want to basically make a tree of tables
patientplatypuslike a json object
rindolfpatientplatypus: sound like it would stand against the normalisation rules
AbleBaconwhat urge would possess you to make something as evil as a tree of tables?
AbleBaconi understand the desire to do something to see if it can be done, but us mortals should not meddle in the workings of sorcery
patientplatypusI'm making dnd in sql
GeDaMoYou might want to look up Common Table Expressions
rindolfpatientplatypus: the game?
patientplatypusyeah
rindolfpatientplatypus: ah
patientplatypusits a challenging problem
AbleBaconLOL I'm picturing players taking their turns by submitting database queries with their requests
patientplatypusbut it would be useful to be able to use a tree structure
patientplatypusI'm just making the game sheet
GeDaMoThere's at least one game like that
patientplatypusif i get that working that would be a hat trick
rindolfpatientplatypus: you can encode trees using a table or two
patientplatypushmmm
AbleBaconADD "MOVE, 1" TO TABLE "MOVE_QUEUE_$PLAYER_NAME"
GeDaMoAbleBacon: https://schemaverse.com/
AbleBaconi always feel like SQL people are screaming
patientplatypusAHHHHH
AbleBacon"Compete against other players using raw SQL commands to command your fleet." picard never had to do this
rindolfpatientplatypus: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=sql+tree&ia=qa
AbleBacon"CAPTAIN, we've lost control of our primary command instruments! all commands to the ship will have to be issued via MICROSOFT sql queries"
AbleBacon"... number one, give the order to abandon ship."
rindolfAbleBacon: heh
patientplatypusi may just use lots of tables without the tree - looks overly complicated
rindolfpatientplatypus: what?
GeDaMoWhy do you need trees of tables?
patientplatypusoh well....i was thinking trees but it just looks like this would be sort of sucky
Myrl-sakiAbleBacon: I'd be screaming too if I had to write SQL for a living.
rindolfpatientplatypus: every purpose should have a single table
AbleBacon"you adopted capslock for internet arguments... i was born with capslock"
GeDaMoI remember computers before lowercase was invented :P
CashDash123How is a game like flappy bird ported to so many systems?
CashDash123I mean what makes it so easy to port?
CashDash123I mean it's been ported to the snes,gba,etc
AbleBacon"captain, our systems are down! we can only match enemy ships for targeting using regex!" "... number one, issue the command ".*"" "but sir there are civi-" "i give up"
jrslepakCashDash123: how complex is the game itself?
CashDash123no very jrslepak but how was the source code obtained or was it reverse engineered?
AbleBaconCashDash123, the logic behind the game is very simple. if it was written in, say, C++ there's probably a C++ compiler for all of those systems. the only thing that would change really is how to display the graphics
AbleBaconah--birds were the key to the game's breakthrough into success i see
AbleBaconunless the birds are just a RED HERRING!
AbleBaconwait--is a herring a fish?
AbleBaconor a bird?
wedr_Yeah, the Inverse Laws of Game Design, the shorter the jump distance, the more popular it gets via word of mouth
CashDash123AbleBacon, the addiction of beating a high score lead to its popularity
wedr_herring is a fish yes
wedr_a type of tuna
rindolfAbleBacon: heh
wedr_salmon, not tuna
AbleBaconthen we need to invent "flappy herring"
AbleBaconavoid sharks and other sea creatures idk
wedr_For a warning, I think it's called red harring.
wedr_Or haerring
AbleBaconno, "red flag" is a warning. "red herring" is something that distracts you from the real thing
AbleBaconshoot i don't know any more
wedr_red herring is a fish.
wedr_:/
wedr_red Sirens, maybe?
jrslepakit's also an idiom whose meaning is as AbleBacon described
wedr_In Norse mythology, Sirens are blue.
wedr_Or was it Greek?
wedr_So red Sirens is like the shiny Pokemon that distracts you in real life.
AbleBaconall those poor kids getting hit by cars looking at their phones hunting for pokemon
wedr_True, Pokemon Go caused kids to get hit more often
jrslepakthe best solution is to play it on the bus :-P
AbleBaconyou don't want to go on the bus in America
AbleBaconit is not a nice place
jrslepakI was just there a few hours ago
GeDaMoDoes America only have one bus? :|
jrslepakhaha
jrslepakit seems that way some evenings
CashDash123Leads me to question of how were games ported back in the day when you would have to downgrade a game to run on a system?
GeDaMoA lot of hard work
CashDash123kinda like how lets say you have developed a dreamcast game while also having a Linux and windows port
CashDash123how does that work or even in reverse
GeDaMoThe game engine may have to be partly rewritten but the content (graphics etc.) should be reusable
CashDash123I mean I was thinking in a similar vain to Elysian Shadows which I'm pretty sure was designed around the dreamcast
CashDash123Which was tweaked most likely
CashDash123that or I may also get an Idea by reading quora
GeDaMoHmmm ... there's a #dreamcastdev channel
horny-samaGeDaMo: I thought dreamcast was stuff before I was born. Surprised that people still dev for it
GeDaMoThere's a also an #elysian_shadows channel but only one person in it
GeDaMoPeople still develop for a lot of old systems
CashDash123It's been chronicled on youtube since they were in high school in 2007
CashDash123horny-sama, The Dreamcast due to it's discontinuation date makes it more common to have a system without protection from playing burned cdr's though it's bad for the laser
AbleBacon"bad for the laser"--a likely story
patientplatypusOK
patientplatypusI'm confused
CashDash123AbleBacon, well it was designed for GD-ROM
AbleBaconhow could it damage the laser, though?
AbleBaconlasers don't have any moving parts!
patientplatypusso here's my question: if i have a table with a, b, c, d, e and I want each of those 5 letters to reference 5 different tables A, B, C, D, E how would I do this in postgresql? I can link tables by foreign/primary key but I cant see how they actually reference the value its linking to
patientplatypusso
GeDaMoWhy do you have 5 different tables?
patientplatypusin dnd you have paladin, fighter, etc. I want each of those items to link to a table that contains their statistics. So one table with class names, several linked tables with different statistics
grouseGeDaMo, gotta have redundant table in case bobby drops them ;)
GeDaMoWhy can't this be in one table?
AbleBaconall classes have strength, intelligence, etc. you should have one table for shared characteristics of all classes
patientplatypusbecause each class is entirely different from another
AbleBaconoh i see what you're saying
patientplatypuswell like wizard and fighter are so different that the tables need to be totally separate
patientplatypusthe way sql seems to want to work is that it just replicates tables in a single customer/many purchases type pattern
patientplatypusdoes anyone have any suggestions? I'm totally lost and have been staring at this for a while
GeDaMoI'm having difficulty visualising your DB structure
patientplatypusso one table for classes (fighter, wizard, etc)
patientplatypuseach class will have its one table - fighter table, wizard table, paladin table
patientplatypuswith their own special statistics on each
GeDaMoWhat fields do these tables have?
patientplatypuseach table will have entirely different fields (this is the problem- if they were similar it would not be an issue). so fighter has swords and fighting, and wizard would have spells etc
patientplatypusi need what is essentially some sort of tree/json like hierarchy but in sql
patientplatypusltree seems very confusing
patientplatypuswhat do you mean beaky?
GeDaMoWhat do these tables represent? Are they like D&D character sheets?
horny-samaCashDash123: gd-rom?
GeDaMoYeah, IRC will do that to you :|
CashDash123horny-sama, It was Sega's specialized cd I think the reason the burned cd exploit had to do something with an exploit with the mil-cd format
CashDash123though
horny-samaIs it safe to assume that gd-rom is out of production
CashDash123https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GD-ROM horny-sama
horny-samaCashDash123: did not say if it is out of production or not
CashDash123I don't think anyone can press there games to GD-Rom any more.
CashDash123I don't actually even own a dreamcast I just learned a bit about it
CashDash123long ago
horny-samagood luck with whatever you are doing
horny-samasounds cool
CashDash123I figured it out hombre is pressed to mil-cd's
xenowhy would anyone wanna press things onto GD-Ros any more?
xenoor why am I asking?
CashDash123don't quote me on that
CashDash123quote
horny-samaxeno: I think CashDash123 is doing some dreamcast dev
CashDash123horny-sama, I'm not
horny-samaCashDash123: so just quest for knowledge?
xenohorny-sama: yeah, but why?
CashDash123It would just be a good place to get an Idea of how a game is ported
xenohorny-sama: it's like the worst waste of time
horny-samaxeno: different people have different hobby
xenoyeah I know
AbleBaconoh no... we're resorting to "scrum" meetings every morning. things must be getting really desperate.
CashDash123I mean how games are made for old consoles really is interesting
horny-samaAbleBacon: ?
AbleBaconat my work
AbleBaconand they pay me and all i have to do is not die
GeDaMohttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/Scrum-1.JPG
horny-samaAbleBacon: in other words, you are their basic bitch
CashDash123horny-sama, You could say that,and I really wanted a dreamcast a long time ago
AbleBaconit's not a giant wrestling orgy; it's a management technique
GeDaMoWhy not both? :D
horny-samaAbleBacon: just hope you made your fuck you money soon so you can quit
horny-samalol
RouninAbleBacon: Your team just needs to move their organization to Sloth® so that all of their personal data can be sold to advertisers
RouninThen you'll be truly efficient
RouninAnd of course SourceHub™ to organize your Packer images
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2017-10-12

ZERO nirvana

Display

narupohello
rindolfnarupo: hi
rindolfnarupo: how are you?
naruporindolf: hi rindolf. I'm fine :)
rindolfnarupo: nice
naruporindolf: sup?
rindolfnarupo: I'm fine - trying to be productive
rindolfnarupo: i reached inbox ZERO nirvana
naruporindolf: hm
naruporindolf: inbox is mail box?
rindolfnarupo: the email https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/in-box#English
Xatenevrindolf, wait, you can be productive while being in irc?
naruporindolf: thanks.
naruporindolf: what is "ZERO nirvana"?
wXenorindolf: inbox zero?! wtf?
rindolfnarupo: an empty inbox
rindolfnarupo: and nirvana means a state of bliss
FManTropyxah, I thought it was the penultimate opposite of nirvana
FManTropyxie. zero nirvana
naruporindolf: ah, thanks. nirvana :)
FManTropyxincidentally, my music collection is also ZERO nirvana
rindolfnarupo: see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana
rindolfwXeno: the fuck!
narupomy bank account is ZERO nirvana ;)
rindolfFManTropyx: ah
rindolfnarupo: heh
rindolfFManTropyx: inbox zero's nirvana
wXenorindolf: on one of mine I got 5.5gb of mails (maybe 10k in my inbox for the last year) - for the other one I don't know, but 2-3000 unread
rindolfthe nirvana of inbox zero
rindolfwXeno: ouch
rindolfwXeno: i once saw a screenshot of a gmail.com account with 130K unread messages in the inbox
rindolfwXeno: anyway, i hate clutter
wXenoif you don't tend to it, then that goes fast
wXenorindolf: me too, but it's hard to avoid when I can get some hundreds of mails with actual content in an average/slightly busy day
wXenorindolf: and enough of references and long running topics that I can't delete old mails without losing relevant info
rindolfwXeno: i move away emails to other folders
wXenorindolf: me too
wXenorindolf: and I delete what I can
rindolfwXeno: ah
rindolfwXeno: now i have an empty inbox in my gmail account too
wXenorindolf: damn, how? you delete everything?
XatenevI get like 4 emails per day.
XatenevHeh
exio4I get about 4 emails I actually read a day too, and another 40-60 with content I might or might not care about :P
rindolfwXeno: no
wXenorindolf: you made a mail address which violates the SMTP protocol?
rindolfwXeno: no
wXenorindolf: you made it 17 seconds ago, and miraculously Google failed at sending the welcome mails?
wXenorindolf: ah you moved them to another folder
wXenoall mails from *@* -> inbox2 doesn't count :)
rindolfwXeno: in this case i deleted them
rindolfwXeno: but i don't delete all emails
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2017-10-28

Nomable browsers

Display

mentalitamozzilla no longer makes thunderbird?
mentalitamozilla
rindolfmozzarilla
occultusmozarella foxfire > goggle charm
xenomentalita: I'm not sure, I haven't really cared about thunderbird for probably a decade
mentalitawhat do you use xeno
mentalitaoutlook?
xenoat work outlook, at home gmail
xenoand yeah, I know that means Google has all my mail
xenobut at least it means *someone* has my mail, as opposed to the mail I had before I started to use gmail, which is lost forever
snake2k<occultus> mozarella foxfire > goggle charm ... no... micirosluft adge > life
occultusmacrohard straightedge > netscoop
snake2koccultus, what about papple lafari?
occultusisn't pear souffle barely maintained now?
snake2koccultus, I think they gave up on it lol
snake2kGotta admit though, I wish Microsoft was my dad so that it would continue supporting me for some god forsaken reason even though I'm a disappointment lmao
rindolfheh
snowmancantcodesnake2k: i was of the opinion Microsoft commonly killed of its "children" just as it got useful
snowmancantcodeor common so maybe a bad father to have
snowmancantcodeno support post 18 years end of life support :P
snake2ksnowmancantcode, hahahaha lol "son, you're a grown man now. You must die."
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2017-12-03

German as he is spoke

Display

rindolf36 files changed, 160 insertions(+), 1118 deletions(-) ==> a very productive night
bavinice
bavitighten it up?
rindolfI'd like to club my old self who just copy pasted and modified CSS code
baviha
bavi"let's just say I got rid of A LOT of extraneous whitespace"
bavi;)
rindolfbavi: heh
rindolfbavi: i can probably save even more lines by converting the Contents.pm files to YAML
hioWhy do people use Rust? Is it a form of Stockholm syndrome?
hioI mean, any child could see that this language is overcomplicated
hioYet they act like it's all fine
rindolfhio: i feel that ponylang is more complicated than rust
hioponylang has a GC, how can it be more complicated
hiojust the weirdo decision from the Rust team to wrap lambda arguments with | args | is crazy
hiothey did that just to make parsing easier. Can you imagine? Wow
rindolfhio: well, admittedly i didn't study rust too closely
rindolfhio: ruby has that too
hioThey actually thought that making their parsing job slightly easier justifies making the language weirder and introducing new syntax that doesn't resemble function calls at all even though lambdas are basically exactly like functions
rindolfhio: this night I reduced my codebase by close to a 1,000 lines
hiothat's great bro, you should start a facebook blog
rindolfhio: i have a facebook and stuff
hioI'm talking about really important issues
rindolfhio: my latest tweet sparked some interest there
rindolfhio: you are obsessed w discussing various languages
hioI have hopes for both ziglang and jailang. Odin seems okay too but it's really hard to keep track of a language that resides only in youtube videos
hiorindolf, bad languages are the reason why software sucks so much
hioliterally if we only get one good language, everything else will be fixed within a matter of months to years
rindolfhio: a lot of software apps i use are OK
hiopeople are so thirsty for better languages, they jumped on Rust and Golang like crazy
hiocan you imagine? it just shows how bad we have it
tttbhi
rindolftttb: hi, sup?
hiojailang will be released this year, are you ready yet rindolf ?
tttbrindolf: i want my interface in Java to have attributes but they can't
rindolfhio: should i be?
rindolftttb: ah
tttbshould i use an abstract class
tttbor should i just give each concrete class the attributes and use an interface?
rindolftttb: you can also define accessors
tttbi know, i'll use an abstract class for the attributes and an interface for the methods
hiorindolf, what do you think? don't you want 0.2 sec compile times?
tttbor is that dumb
hio0.2 sec to compile an application that has c++ features and c++ speed is incredible
hioyou should switch to it as soon as it's available
bavihttps://www.xkcd.com/303/ :D
rindolfhio: sounds good - what will its licence be?
rindolfbavi: :)
rindolfbavi: i broke the travis build though :(
bavirindolf: oh no!
bavias soon as I got a passing build i disabled travis for that repo ;)
rindolfbavi: i suspect it is because i didn't install uglify-es
rindolfbavi: my projects are becoming chimeras
hiorindolf, MIT
hiour welcome
hiowhat language are you using now?
rindolfperl, python, c, cmake, c++, website meta lang, javascript, ruby, gnu make, and more
rindolfhio: i use more than one
hiohalf of those are bad
hiowhy use perl, ruby, make? dude
rindolfhio: they are OK
hioi just said that they aren't okay at all
rindolfhio: that was to bavi BTW
rindolfhio: you are entitled to my opinion
tttbcan someone please explain what the point of an interface is when an abstract class provides all its functionality?
tttbin Java
rindolfhio: one reason is that i have a lot of legacy perl code and it needs to be maintained
rindolftttb: you can inherit from more than one interface
hiojust rewrite ur perl
hiowait until jailang is released though
tttbOK
rindolfhio: heh
bavii read the first few chapters of the gnu make manual the other day, i like how it's written
rindolfhio: i will rewrite all my perl code into $FASHION_LANGUAGE by hiring Chuck Norris, who will complete it in an hour and charge me 10,000,000 USD
rindolfbavi: :)
rindolfbavi: gmake now integrated guile scheme
Era_ScarecrowI didn't know chuck norris could code... i figured he'd just punch the computer and it would give him what he wanted...
rindolfEra_Scarecrow: the computer just does what he wants
rindolfEra_Scarecrow: by pure intimidation
rindolfhio: i like the mit licence
rindolfit is my go to licence for my own projects
usr123rindolf: Hello. Could you please take a look at my code?
rindolfusr123: it seems fine, but you may have off-by-one errors
Era_Scarecrowrindolf & usr123> I'd have looked at it, but i don't use python, so i don't know.
rindolfEra_Scarecrow: python is easy
Era_Scarecrowperhaps, I'm not familiar with it, although it would mostly be syntax I'd have to get familiar with.
rindolfEra_Scarecrow: someone once told me he was able to look at python code and immediately be able to tweak it without knowing it
rindolfEra_Scarecrow: i think he already knew perl 5, though
FriesAndSrirachaAny reason to use fish over zsh?
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: i am still using bash
Era_Scarecrowditto, i also use bash... Depends on if there's a specific feature you need or not.
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: i found zsh too incompatible w bash
usr123rindolf: Well in that case, I'm just returning if today is 7 and food is less or else I'm returning the first element of the array. even if it iterates one more or less would it affect the output?
FriesAndSriracharindolf: I am still on Bash as well, I just wanna follow the bandwagon ;)
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: ah
FriesAndSrirachabandwagon == coolKids
Era_ScarecrowFries> why would you want to jump on a bandwagon? I don't see the point...
FriesAndSrirachaSo that's why I was wondering if anyone here has used both fish and zsh and which one is better
FriesAndSrirachaOr the pros and cons of both
FriesAndSriracharindolf: also, what you mean by incompatible with bash?
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: csh is the bestest! http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/anti/csh/
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: i think $var does not expand words by default
SigSegOwlgood morning everybody :)
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: the only thing better than csh is CMD.EXE
FriesAndSrirachaI guess there's plugins for that
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: j/k
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: there is an option
rindolfSigSegOwl: hoooooo
usr123unable to ask questions on their forum as well. Seems like I don't have enough points. This is bad
FriesAndSrirachaI mean zsh seems to have a way bigger community than fish
usr123is there a competitive programming channel on freenode?
SigSegOwlwhy do hdmi to dvi cables only work one way ?
SigSegOwlor even hdmi to displayport o.O ?
rindolfSigSegOwl: physics possibly
FriesAndSrirachaCsh :P
SigSegOwllet me ask it a little bit differently... why can't i connect a screen that has vga, dvi, dp to a pc that only has hdmi xD
Era_ScarecrowSigSegOwl> Use a hammer... it will fit...
SigSegOwlEra_Scarecrow: hammer the screen or the pc ?
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: i am reminded of this too - http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=more-advanced-than-CVS
Era_ScarecrowSigSegOwl> Hammer the connection into one of your ports... so... sort them all
rindolfEra_Scarecrow: heh
Era_Scarecrowhttp://rinkworks.com/stupid/cs_abuse.shtml
FriesAndSrirachaIs there any CLI centric channel on Freenode?
Era_Scarecrowtry joining #bash?
FriesAndSrirachaThat's pretty counterproductive ;)
Era_ScarecrowAlthough if you go to one of the Linux rooms they might be helpful
FriesAndSrirachaConsidering I am trying to move away from Bash
SigSegOwlso there is no way to connect dvi or dp to hdmi ?
FriesAndSrirachaAsk in ##hardware ?
Era_ScarecrowSigSegOwl> Without a converter, probably not...
rindolfEra_Scarecrow: heh, funny link
Era_Scarecrowrindolf> Go back one level and there's ALL TYPES of topics.. programming, hardware, scammers... techno mumbo jumbo no one else understands :P
usr123Is there a competitive programming channel on freenode?
rindolfusr123: you can discuss it here
Era_Scarecrowusr123> Hmmm maybe... Can't get more competitive than say CRobots though
rindolfusr123: problem is there are many CP sites
SigSegOwlsee ya later then :D heading to work...
rindolfSigSegOwl: hooooo
usr123Well. I did post my code. I just can't figure out the corner case I might be missing.
l2yusr123: try #algorithms
usr123l2y: Thanks. on it
rindolfEra_Scarecrow: ah
Era_ScarecrowI don't know what channels there are, because when i go to look over the list of channels or search through them.... there's so many and my client isn't very good at searching channel lists, so hope you have the exact title of something...
l2yEra_Scarecrow: this is easy. you just Google "irc <yourtopic>", then find the first crawler, look at the number of members, and if it's legit, join
Era_Scarecrowl2y> Maybe. I've also just joined rooms to see if they are empty or not :P
Era_ScarecrowHere it's midnight... i should sleep soon
rindolfEra_Scarecrow: i stayed up all night refactoring old CSS stylesheets
Era_Scarecrowfun...
rindolfEra_Scarecrow: i ended up reducing the codebase by close to a thousand lines
FriesAndSrirachaSass!
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: no sass yet
Era_Scarecrowfun fun. I got a script for reducing the size of a differential data backup up and running
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: i just consolidated the CSS directives
FriesAndSrirachaSass changes lives :)
rindolfEra_Scarecrow: great
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: i like sass
Era_Scarecrowyeah... the big pain in the butt was trying to get diff and patch to work on potentially differing newline types, without it replacing whole files just because it was \n instead of \r\n lines or whatever
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: ah, are you a fan of the sriracha sauce?
FriesAndSriracharindolf: sure am ;)
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: ah , i like it too
rindolfEra_Scarecrow: i see
FriesAndSrirachaMostly because if that Garlic
FriesAndSriracha*of
rindolfEra_Scarecrow: i use individual tarballs for backups
rindolfEra_Scarecrow: i have a 1 tb ext hard disk
rindolfEra_Scarecrow: and i exclude various large dirs that i don't need backed up
Era_Scarecrowmhmm... i have a backup script that runs every 6 hours taking files newer than my last backup and saving it, means the files are about 3Mb per backup per day. then when i get around to plugging in my other drive, just copy the backups and I'm golden.
rindolfEra_Scarecrow: ah
Era_Scarecrowbut when i run my script, i can remove unnecessary inclusions cutting the size down to something like 100k, and then with diff/patch, down to 60k per day
FriesAndSrirachaWell you can use rsync
bavigah... i was talking down the dark hallway and accidentally kicked/stepped-on the cat and one of her incisors went right into my heel
bavis/talking/walking :)
rindolfbavi: :(
FriesAndSrirachaAnd that's why folks use your phone's LED
Era_ScarecrowFries> Not sure how I'd use it, as this is the only running computer in the house right now...
bavishe is fine though :)
rindolfbavi: ah
SlashLife^workbavi: Ohhh, the ways in which cats can educate us about their ways ... =)
FriesAndSrirachaEra_Scarecrow: oh
bavinow she has the zoomies
rindolfbavi: you should have got a fluorescent cat
SlashLife^workI'll totally get cats again when I have kids. *pull* - "Don't pull its tail!" - *pull* - "DON'T PULL ITS TAIL!" - *pull* -- *claw* -- *cry* - "I told you not to pull its tail!"
bavihah
FriesAndSrirachahttp://theoatmeal.com/comics/cat_kill
rindolfbavi: there was this manx kitten who was born with metallic green fur
SlashLife^workrindolf: Heh. We had a cafe across a place I used to work to. They had a waitress who brought her big black dog in (looked like a golden retriever, except it was pitch black; are there pitch-black retrievers?) ... I suggested she could dye some fluorescent racing stripes into its fur. :D
rindolfbavi: i saw a photo of him in the newspaper
SlashLife^workFriesAndSriracha: I actually still have to read that book. :S
hiorindolf, what is a MUST HAVE feature for a programming language?
bavirindolf: that's cool :)
FriesAndSrirachaSlashLife^work: same situation here ;)
baviintegers
hioi personally really enjoy the automatic typing in typescript where a struct automatically gets a type if it fits the interface. I think it's called duck typing but not entirely sure
SlashLife^workFriesAndSriracha: Also have it lying around already? x)
hioi mean it makes perfect sense, if some data structure has the exact same fields as an interface that i defined then just let it have that type immediately
hioit's not duck typing because you still have to cast in Typescript
rindolfhio: see http://shlomif-tech.livejournal.com/57811.html
FriesAndSrirachaAny point in learning Golang now?
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: to hack on golang projects
hiorindolf, i don't subscribe to this middle of the road crap "everything sux, get over it" attitude. There is right and wrong in the world, period
hio"You are damned either way, whatever you do." <-- very stupid attitude to have
SlashLife^workhio: And C++ is on the right side ... mostly. :D
hioc++ is just about the worst possible language that can exist
Era_ScarecrowMy current languages of choice, include AHK and D...
hiohit me with some new and exciting c++ features, I'm sure they are ridiculously complex and useless
FriesAndSrirachaGoogle is a LLC now?
SlashLife^workhio: I need a toolbox that gets the job done, not a crate full of useless, but exciting, gimmicks.
rindolfhio: what is better: English, Hebrew, French, German, Arabic, Spanish, Swahili, Japanese, Mandarin, ...
hioGerman
SlashLife^workI'll take a screwdriver over a fidget spinner every day.
FriesAndSrirachaAlso another language I've been hearing about is Haskell
hioHaskell is a toy language, people only use it when they want to appear smart
FriesAndSrirachaCan we do server side coding with it?
SlashLife^workFriesAndSriracha: You can do server side coding with almost every language.
SlashLife^workFriesAndSriracha: If it can do console I/O on any modern OS, it can do server side web.
FriesAndSrirachaSlashLife^work: I know that but is it a popular or niche thing , that's the question
SlashLife^workFriesAndSriracha: Look up CGI. :D
SlashLife^workFriesAndSriracha: I know people who use Haskell for web.
hioi mean look at this thing in c++: "auto glambda = [](auto a, auto&& b) { return a < b; };".. what's with the random array []? What is the array here???
rindolfhio: we are not talking in German, are we?
SlashLife^workI don't think they based their whole server side stack on it, though ... but I actually don't know.
hiorindolf, we don't live in a perfect world, do we?
SlashLife^workhio: It's not an array. It's an empty capture.
rindolfhio: no.
hiogreat that we worked that out
FriesAndSrirachaSo this means there's no big projects using Haskell?
SlashLife^workhio: So you're complaining that [] can have three different meanings?
hioyes
SlashLife^workhio: Good luck with () then.
hio() only has one meaning
SlashLife^workIt does?
hioyes, it means group up
rindolfhio: German has three genders, and some inanimate objects are male or female - like wtf?
SlashLife^workint x = foo(); double y = (2.0/3.0); int z = (int)y; ... I was thinking of at least one more a moment ago.
FriesAndSrirachaSorry guys, I was just a web developer, took a long break and now trying to get into coding again
hioit still all means "group up".
hioeven the cast
rindolfhio: and a damsel is neuter
SlashLife^workhio: BS
SlashLife^workhio: Oh, the [] always means "index"
hioit never means that wow
hioint[10] does not mean index
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: what do you wish to do?
FriesAndSriracharindolf: mostly to learn some kinda language
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: ah
FriesAndSrirachaI know, HTML and CSS, and shell scripting
SlashLife^workEither that something can have indices (void foo(int[])), or that something *has* indices (int arr[32]), or that you want to access an index (int x = arr[3]), or which indices from the current scope you want to capture (auto lambda = [arr,&x](){ x = *arr; })
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: ah
FriesAndSrirachaAnd can use git
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: ah.
FriesAndSrirachaBut that's about it it her than by basic understanding of JavaScript
xqbhi helloz
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: can you write fizz buzz?
hioOK SlashLife^work, so it "accesses" variables inside the current scope as if the scope is an array. That's a complex way of seeing it but fine
rindolfxqb: mew
FriesAndSrirachas/her/other
xqbbsd bsd bsd irc irc bsd
* xqbshoos rindolf
xqbdem cats
rindolfxqb: cats are damn cute
FriesAndSriracharindolf: oh Tom Scott made a video about it
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: about what?
FriesAndSrirachaFizzBuzz I mean
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: ah
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: see https://github.com/shlomif/Freenode-programming-channel-FAQ/blob/master/FAQ.mdwn#what-is-fizzbuzz
FriesAndSrirachaWhose GitHub page is this?
FriesAndSrirachaLotsa nice info ;)
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: someone i tutored was able to solve fizz buzz after the first few lessons
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: i am shlomif on gh
FriesAndSrirachaOh nice :)
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: there were some other contributors to the faq
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: and it may be somewhat opinionated
FriesAndSrirachaThanks for this, I've been out of this whole things for so long
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: thanks
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: you're welcome
FriesAndSrirachaI think getting into Python would be a good idea
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: i think so too
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: python is easy to learn
FriesAndSriracharindolf: yep I am kinda stuck between what to learn, to be honest
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: ah, i know that feeling
FriesAndSrirachaPeople are suggesting Python, Ruby, Go...
vdamewoodI vote for Python.
xqbhi etc
FriesAndSrirachaand even JavaScript
vdamewoodHigh? i am not!
FriesAndSrirachaNode I mean
squirreloops wrong chan
mozzarellaI vote for ruby
xqb:) /me hi5s vdamewood
vdamewoodFriesAndSriracha: What do you already know?
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: it reminds me of the philosophical dog that stands in equal distance between two identical piles of food and ends up starving to death
* rindolfputs mozzarella on FriesAndSriracha and eats them both
FriesAndSrirachaI was a web developer, so no programming language, HTML, CASE, Shell scripting etc
vdamewoodrindolf: share!
rindolfvdamewood: :)
vdamewoodCASE? (Typo of CSS?)
FriesAndSrirachas/CASE/CSS
FriesAndSrirachavdamewood: autocorrect actually
xqbthat's Buridan's donkey
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: ah
vdamewoodHey look, someone who doesn't think HTML is a programming language.
FriesAndSriracharindolf: I know how that dog feels ;)
xqbit is a donkey
rindolfvdamewood: writing HTML is kinda programming though
* vdamewoodkicks the donkey.
vdamewoodIt's time to kick ass!
vdamewoodrindolf: I don't believe it it as all.
xqbheh
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: :)
FriesAndSrirachaOh and basic Unix tools, and Git
FriesAndSrirachaThat's all I know
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: OK, then learn python
xqb+1 py
FriesAndSrirachaSeems reasonable
vdamewoodFriesAndSriracha: If you're looking for suggestions of real a real programming language to learn, go with Python. it has Django and Flask.
vdamewoodI prefer Django.
rindolfand bottle
FriesAndSrirachaBut Ruby has Rails and Sinatra too ;)
vdamewoodRuby is also not Python.
vdamewoodWhich is a point against Ruby.
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: the ruby hype seems to have mostly passed away
vdamewoodThough, Python, Ruby, and Java are all fine languages for beginners. Python is just slightly better.
FriesAndSriracharindolf: I know people are hyping Golang now
vdamewoodEverything else is terrible for beginners.
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: and rust
vdamewoodGolang is also on my terrible-for-beginners list.
FriesAndSrirachaAnd Kotlin maybe
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: and node.js
xqbwhen I was starting, I was looking up how the same program (was it hello world?) looks like in different languages
xqbI found C#'s syntax to be the most appealing to me
xqbso I went with C# :)
rindolfxqb: OK
vdamewoodxqb: Probably. Hello world is fairly popular for language juxtaposition.
rindolfthe first language is always the hardest to learn
FriesAndSrirachaI can't really go with C#
xqb!fgoogle juxtaposition
FriesAndSrirachaI doubt it runs on Linux
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: it does
xqbit does but not as expected
xqbMono is crap
xqband you can't do WPF
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: even .NET core from Microsoft
xqband 100+ things
FriesAndSrirachaPython it is then ;)
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: sure
vdamewoodxqb: justa- next to/besides. juxtoposition: to position next to/beside; to compare by placing side by side.
l2yFriesAndSriracha: it runs on Linux, and does so rather well as of today
vdamewoods/justa/juxta/
FriesAndSrirachal2y: I mostly wanna do Server site coding
xqbthanks :)
vdamewoodWell, Juxtaposition means the act as a noun. The verb is juxtapose.
FriesAndSrirachas/site/side
FriesAndSrirachaThanks a lot rindolf again!
l2yFriesAndSriracha: OK, whatever. just proving you wrong, so that you don't doubt any more
FriesAndSrirachaAlso thanks vdamewood
vdamewoodBah, I didn't so anything significant.
FriesAndSrirachal2y: oh I didn't know
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: you're welcome
FriesAndSriracharindolf: I think you should also include Video tutorials in your Python resources
vdamewoodI want to teach some stuff now.
* xqb'd like to know what is unit testing and how do I start writing tests and what's a good read for testing
vdamewoodxqb: Unit testing is when you write code that makes your other code works properly. For example, if you have a function called addtwo(x), you would write a functions like this: a = addtwo(3); if a == 5, return true; else return false;
xqbwhat's a unit in my code? a function/method?
xqba .. line?
xqbwhat
vdamewoodA separate program.
vdamewoodWell, it could also be a function or collection of functions.
xqbI'm testing a separate program in my program?
xqbwhy don't I test my program directly?
mozzarellanigga
vdamewoodYou're not testing your program; you're testing parts (units) of your program.
mozzarellareturn a == 5
vdamewoodIf I really wanted to go that fare: return addtwo(3) == 5
vdamewoodfar*
mozzarellawell you should
xqbassert addtwo(3) == 5
xqband then I run pytest in the background
xqband I've tested a unit?
vdamewoodxqb: That might work, but it doesn't look like PyTest is specifically for Unit testing.
FriesAndSriracharindolf: but great resources still, thanks
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: you're welcome
xqbI see
xqbis TDD (Kent Beck) a good book?
rindolfxqb: quite
rindolfxqb: most of it is redundant
xqbI know what you think rindolf, you're the one who recommended it :P
rindolfxqb: ah
PlanckWalkA "unit" is generally an internal API contract. Often a function or method.
xqbwhat's an API contract
rindolfxqb: i can recommend against a different one - https://mail.perl.org.il/pipermail/perl/2010-April/010909.html
rindolfmozzarella: yes
PlanckWalkA specification for how one part of a system can use another.
xqbI see
FriesAndSrirachaOh that reminds me of this site https://hackr.io/
vdamewoodxqb: Many unit-testing frameworks follow the design of a Java unit-testing framework called JUnit. Though, this isn't strictly required, it sure does help organize things.
vdamewoodxqb: https://docs.python.org/3/library/unittest.html
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: you can submit a pull-req for it
FriesAndSriracharindolf: I have to find some good ones first though :)
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: you can put the link to the site for all langs
xqbvdamewood: I'll look at it, gtg, bbl, tyvm
vdamewoodLaters
rindolfxqb: bye
JasparonHello friends:
rindolfJasparon: meow
JasparonDo programmers care about logic gates, or do I need to study EE/CE?
Jasparonrindolf: Long time no C
rindolfJasparon: we do
Jasparonrindolf: Who is we?
brwrJasparon: programmers who work with logic gates care about logic gates :)
FriesAndSrirachaGtg
rindolfJasparon: there are bitwise and logical operators
JasparonUggggh....
rindolfFriesAndSriracha: bye
FriesAndSriracharindolf: see ya
JasparonSuppose I want to get into how logic gates design works (theory), and I one day want to build custom circuits.
rindolfJasparon: i am a software dev who studied EE/CEish
JasparonShould I get an intro electronics book; or an intro circuits book?
rindolfJasparon: and graduated
JasparonOk sure
Jasparon:)
rindolfJasparon: well, not sure i can call what i studied CE
Jasparonrindolf: Right.
brwrJasparon: IME its better to find a project that interests you and start working on it
brwrYMMV
rindolfJasparon: it is technically EE proper, but calling me an electrical engineer would be a stretch
rts-sanderIME?
brwrI find books helpful for things like design patterns and best practices, but not for code
Jasparonbrwr: I know, but I want to learn how electronics work, and how computer electronics work
brwrrts-sander: in my experience
rindolfJasparon: the Technion is funny
Jasparonrindolf: Maybe you're just a electronics-competent programmer?
rts-sanderbrwr: ah I see, I thought it was misspelled IMO
brwrJasparon: +1
rindolfJasparon: i am clueless around electronics
Jasparonbrwr: Ok neat
Jasparonbrwr: Well, would you recommend I get: 1. Intro CE book. 2. Intro electronics. 3. Intro circuits? Which one?
rindolfJasparon: they never showed us how to replace a lightbulb
rindolfJasparon: wait a sec
Jasparonrindolf: 0, because it's a hardware issue
brwrJasparon: i don’t know enough about electronics to make a recommendation. Sorry!
FManmorning
rindolfJasparon: https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/computation-structures - this book is nice
rindolfJasparon: and there is also http://www.nand2tetris.org/
brwrIRC on mobile is sadface
brwrI get disconnected if I turn my screen off
rindolfJasparon: i suggest you start from a high level prog lang
rindolfJasparon: something like python
rindolfJasparon: how good is your math?
Jasparonrindolf: So, I know about formal logic enough to know things like De Morgan's, but I still need to take college algebra
JasparonThanks for the books
rindolfJasparon: you're welcome
Jasparonrindolf: Here is a good question:
rindolfJasparon: logic can get pretty complicated and impractical
JasparonReally?
JasparonWhat's a good place to build objects? I think main?
rindolfJasparon: at least the one that is under active research
JasparonWhat's under active research?
rindolfJasparon: you can also build them int he methods of other objects
rindolfJasparon: logic
Jasparoncorrect. I think it's "not good" to create objects in the instance-scope?
rindolfJasparon: why not?
Jasparonrindolf: I tried constructing an instance of my class, in the instance-level in Java; stackoverflow
rindolfJasparon: otherwise you'll have a cluttered main func
JasparonMakes sense
rindolfJasparon: ah
rindolfJasparon: you need to limit your recursion
Jasparonrindolf: Right. But I was so confused because my constructor was empty.
rindolfJasparon: or use iterative tree recursion with a dedicated stack
JasparonGood idea
mvaenskaehm, low level detail question on C's memory allocation; if i request 200MB of memory via malloc will that be virtual-addressed memory or real memory locations?
Jasparonrindolf: I should be going :)
rindolfJasparon: where?
rindolfmvaenskae: hi
rindolfmvaenskae: it depends where the program is running\
JasparonHeehee...
JasparonGTG :)
mvaenskaerindolf: hm, in kernel mode it would then get the bare memory locations i take
rindolfmvaenskae: possibly
rindolfmvaenskae: kernel code does not have malloc() usually
* mvaenskaeponders on reworking the sorting algos to not work with explicit arrays but a struct of linked/doubly-linked lists...
rindolfmvaenskae: at least the Linux kernel doesn't
mvaenskaehm, i could obviously adapt that to get the proper Linux kernel function but it could still fail due to fragmentation in allocation a large enough section
rindolfmvaenskae: heh
mvaenskaebut i just realized my approach doesn't scale to structs to pointers to the next element, only to arrays of structs
l2ymvaenskae: is your allocations are not enormous, kernel won't move a page from virtual memory to disk, and virtual memory provides constant time access, so, why bother?
l2ys/is/if/
rindolfmvaenskae: small optimisations can add up to a lot, but if your program can afford to be sub-optimally slower, then so be it
mvaenskaerindolf: i don't so much care for performance than for stability; people somewhat OK in C should be able to understand how I approached different sorting algos within the constraints of C in the most generic way and can use them for their own projects about as easily as importing my stuff
rindolfmvaenskae: see https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Optimizing_Code_for_Speed/Factor_Optimizations#Are_%22Small%22_Optimizations_Desirable?
rindolfmvaenskae: stability?
mvaenskaeif it comes to just speed and i have a fixed interface i would have just commenced; i just realized my approach is not the most generic one
rindolfmvaenskae: if you want your program to behave then keep it out of the kernel
RashadMorning
mvaenskael2y: i was mostly thinking of the problems on fragmentation :)
mvaenskaerindolf: why keep it out of the kernel?
Rashadrindolf: sup?
rindolfmvaenskae: because code running in kernel land can do untold damage\
rindolfRashad: i refactored some CSS stylesheets
rindolfRashad: shaved a thousand lines
mvaenskaerindolf: well, it's the kernel :) i expect nothing less of the system than request a sacrifice to boot again if i break it ;)
Rashadrindolf: Do you use CSS normalization libraries?
Rashadrindolf: Wow!
RashadNice
rindolfRashad: no
rts-sanderwhitespace lines? :)
rindolfRashad: it is for my talks at http://www.shlomifish.org/lecture/
rindolfRashad: the quad-pres ones
rindolfrts-sander: no
l2ymvaenskae: again, what can you do about it? nothing. malloc already allocates a contiguous block of memory, if you are in a kernel space, which you should never be in, you don't have malloc. you are provided with an interface and are bound to what the interface reveals about itself
Rashadrindolf: I don't know if you need this, but it's used by Twitter, GitHub and more: https://necolas.github.io/normalize.css/
rindolfRashad: i had done a lot of copying and tweaking
mvaenskael2y: i may to do kernel development ;) and i wanted to clarify the memory pages returned :) i assumed them to be VA but it's early in the morning and i wasn't fully awake to properly recall :)
RashadNeat
rindolfRashad: ah
rindolfRashad: it was bad
RashadI can imagine.
rindolfRashad: i had to consolidate my directives
RashadWhat directives?
rindolfRashad: the css ones
RashadYou mean like :hover and stuff?
RashadNot sure I know what css directives are.
RashadThe ones with the @?
mvaenskaeright now only userland and there i have now been verified how malloc works :) my aim is trying to eventually be able to write C code that is as generic as possible
rindolfRashad: see https://github.com/shlomif/shlomi-fish-homepage/commits/master
rindolfRashad: no
rindolfRashad: i mean regular rules like b { color: red; }
RashadAh.
RashadThat's a lot of commits :D
rindolfRashad: yes
rindolfRashad: the site dates back to 1997ish
RashadWow.
rindolfRashad: but i used svn->hg->git for it relatively later
RashadWhat's that?
rindolfRashad: first i used svn
rindolfRashad: then moved to hg
rindolfand finally git
RashadAh those are versioning systems?
rindolfRashad: yes
RashadI see I see.
rts-sanderlooks like you finally did git gud
rindolfrts-sander: the main reason why i switched it to github was travis-ci
rindolfrts-sander: well, and hg does not seem to become more popular
rts-sandernever heard of hg
rindolfrts-sander: heh
rts-sanderrindolf: but do you like git itself more than the other systems?
rindolfrts-sander: it isn't too bad, but has its share of quirks
rindolfrts-sander: not sure
rindolfrts-sander: i still kinda miss the simplicity of the svn model. i don't feel i understand git
velcoGood morning, ladies and gentlemen.
Rashadgit is too complicated the only thing I use is push and pull
Rashadmorning velco
rts-sanderI've gotten decently proficient in git
venduyo :)
rts-sanderrindolf: do you also have experience with version control software in team settings or just solo projects?
velcogit is love, git is life
rindolfrts-sander: also in teams
velco(that said, I was pretty happy with Mercurial too)
vendurts-sander, i haven't :)
rts-sandersvn broke more often than not when I tried it with other people
velcoone does not have to understand git
rindolfrts-sander: git rebase can be a bitch too
velcoone needs to know just enough of it, in order to accommodate their workflow
rindolfvelco: well, git threw me off quite a lot
rts-sanderif you have a lot of conflicts yeah
rindolfvelco: good thing there is #git here
rts-sandergit is advanced but there's no simplicity layer
rts-sanderusers are thrown right into the deep
RashadYeah.
rindolfvelco: https://xkcd.com/1597/
velcorindolf, without clicking it, I know what it is :D
rindolfvelco: :)
velcobut just clone/checkout/push/pull/branch/rebase are sufficient to 99.937% if what I need to happen
velcos/if/of/
velcocherry-pick too
rindolfvelco: commit
velcohaha, yeah
velcolog
velcodiff
* rindolfdeletes velco 's git-commit script
rindolfwelcome to hell
* velcorestores git worktree from the backup
rindolflets do a pull req on git's git to remove git-commit
rindolfvelco: git bisect is also useful
rts-sanderlol I actually did that when I was a git noob
merijnrts-sander: The simplicity layer of git is "Just use Mercurial"
rts-sanderback then the team I worked with worked on Windows and we had problems with file name case sensitivity
rindolfmerijn: hg threw me off too
merijnrindolf: How so?
rts-sandermerijn: meh once you learn git it's good
rindolfmerijn: don't remember
rindolfmerijn: and i hate its heads misfeature
wwwwwwis it generally correct to say that jump instructions modify the program counter the same way an add instruction might modify a normal register?
merijnrts-sander: Yeah, but why would I bother when I already knows Mercurial and it's so much simpler to learn? :)
rts-sandermerijn: good point, there's no reason to learn something more complex when you already have something that works
rts-sanderthat's why I'm not going through the effort of learning Haskell :D
merijnI don't think git is even that much more complex than mercurial
rindolfrts-sander: heh
merijnIt just has really shit UI/UX
rts-sanderUI? heh I just use the cmd line
rindolfmerijn: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worse_is_better perhaps
rindolfrts-sander: cmd line is ui too
merijnrts-sander: I'm referring to the cmd line
merijnUI is UI, graphical or not
loginoobIs it really true that to learn some language, try to build something that one have no idea how to start
loginoobin that language
rindolfloginoob: i never did that
rindolfloginoob: perhaps try to contribute to an existing codebase
rts-sanderah, I assumed UI = GUI
rts-sanderyeah I agree it's confusing at times
rts-sanderfor example git checkout -- path, git checkout branchname, git checkout -b newbranch all do something completely different
rindolfrts-sander: also see http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=djb-on-cmd-interfaces
merijnrts-sander: I think this summarises it accurately: http://stevelosh.com/media/images/blog/2010/01/mercurial-vs-git.jpg
rindolfmerijn: heh
loginoobgit is easy until you fuck up
merijnloginoob: Then you just Google and copy&paste cryptic lines from blogposts until either all your data is gone or it's fixed :p
rts-sanderoh hg = mercurial lol
SlashLife^workGAHHH! OCD!! >_<"
loginoobtrue
merijnrts-sander: Because nobody wants to type a command as long as "mercurial" :p
loginoobmerry: You are a haskeller right?
loginoobshit
SlashLife^workI have a directory, an archive and an executable, all by the name of "qt-" in subsequent lines on the same terminal. "ls" colored them blue, red and green respectively ...
loginoobmerijn:
SlashLife^work... which means they do not perfectly line up because they use different subpixels.
SlashLife^work... which annoys the hell out of me.
merijnloginoob: I program in Haskell among other things, yes :p
SlashLife^workGAAAAAHHHH!!!!
SlashLife^workCannot ... unsee ... ;_;
merijnSlashLife^work: Your life could be worse
rts-sanderSlashLife^work: you could probably remove the colors from ls
jpenv TERM=dumb ls
jpsight has been unseen
* venduwrites a bullshit generator for git commit comments =)
SlashLife^workmerijn: Well, I guess it confirms my 20/10 vision.
Jeremehvendu: http://sebpearce.com/bullshit/
SlashLife^workrts-sander: That won't help me now that I *know* they'd be offset when in color. :|
vendubbs lunch :)
merijnSlashLife^work: Could have all your experimental results stored on a cluster fileshare with a deadline tomorrow only to realise the cluster is down for maintenance until late today >.>
SlashLife^workmerijn: Yup. Maintenance is until Friday. And they moved the deadline from next Monday to yesterday.
SlashLife^work(On last Friday afternoon.)
SlashLife^workThat would so be happening if I was still working at my previous job. >_>
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2018-01-30

Imaginary Mohawk

Display

rindolfxoryo: hi
rindolfxoryo: i got a hair cut
adscrindolf: you cut off your dreadlocks?
rindolfadsc: i didn't have ones
adscwhat? you cut off your imaginary dreadlocks? I hope you didn't have to pay for that
rindolfadsc: heh
adscI'll never cut off my imaginary mohawk
* rindolfcuts off adsc 's imaginary mohawk
* rindolfis an imaginary bastard
* adscaccuses rindolf of imaginary cruelty and files a case at the international court of human rights in The Hague
adscCRIMES AGAINST IMAGINATION
rindolfadsc: the imaginary one?
adscno, your crime is real
SlashLife^work*imaginary court of human rights in The Utopia
rindolfadsc: imaginary real?
adscyeah, it's complex
rindolfadsc: nice
rindolfbetter than imaginary integer
adscthe subject of the crime is imaginary, but the crime itself is real
* rindolfflees to an imaginary haven
* adscplots rindolf on the Gaussian plane
adscthere you are
* rindolfconspires against the plot
exio4liste: Finnish people are over-represented on IRC
vendurts-sander, let me find the rules for everyone
xqbFinnish people invented IRC :P
exio4maybe some irc channel is selling alcohol???
exio4xqb: i know :p
listethough most Finns hang out in IRCnet
adscvendu: I've wanted to make a console based cracking game in forever, but I'm always too lazy
FManFinns invented getting drunk
rindolfFMan: they did not
rindolfFMan: the jewish bible describes Noah getting drunk
exio4rindolf: it's a joke, Finns are known to get extremely drunk
rindolfexio4: yes
SlashLife^workrindolf: Now you know why he got stuck on a mountain.
xqbpeople were getting drunk and high way before any bible
exio4that, too
rindolfxqb: true
SlashLife^workrindolf: That's how people got from paradise to Finland. :D
wedr_Finland is the End of Land. :/
rindolfSlashLife^work: :)
exio4it's the north pole, they're Santa's buddies
rindolfthere is nor way out of there
wedr_Oh, how Sweden of you. :/
rindolfwedr_: :)
SlashLife^workNah, that's not sweed en actually even quite mean. :(
xqbsweeden weeden
venduhttps://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/21506/new-mastermind
FManthis is paradise: https://www.memecenter.com/fun/146294/Meanwhile-in-finland
venduadsc, console mastermind would be quick
venduto program
xqbFMan: what, sunbathing?
xqbyeah
listecode 8 hours, relax 8 hours (including working out etc), sleep 8 hours
wedr_liste: No time to eat. :(
listemaybe it's contained in relaxing
snake2kliste++
listeand partly coding :)
snake2kEating is for humans, we're all perl scripts here.
weeirc8089snake2k++
* Tsoulus_has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
rindolfsnake2k: heh
snake2kI have a feeling rindolf has the freenode FAQ links on a open text file all the time lmao
wedr_So... relax is actually just sleep + bath/shower + play + walk dog + caring baby + make breakfast/lunch/dinner + pay bills + do tax returns + get mad and argue with wife + cry?
snake2kweeirc8089, >_<
xqbsnake2k, me too
merijnwedr_: Cuddle cat!
snake2kwedr_, oh yes! the emotional drama is my favorite! :P
rindolfsnake2k: i am a superintelligent nand gate
wedr_Ah, a typical human day
snake2krindolf, self aware nand gates?! >_>
snake2kwe're doomed!
sd5869rindolf: nandgate :P
rindolfexec_: what does gcc -E say?
Sornaensisit says you’re a HERETIC
aawewhat does `rm -rf ./*; rustup install nightly; cargo init .` say?
rindolfaawe: how about no?
snake2klol
aaweRIR
rindolfaawe: what does `sudo rm -fr /* # Sayonara, asshole!` say?
aaweyou forgot --no-preserve-root
rindolfaawe: note that it may take a while to run.
rindolfaawe: w /*?
aaweit would probably be faster if rm was written in rust
rindolfaawe: then: 1. Rewrite rm in rust. 2. Benchmark both versions
rindolfon /* of course
NowyouseemeWhat's the motivation to come to a IRC like this?
adscto chat with other fellow programmers
rindolfNowyouseeme: to get help?
rindolfNowyouseeme: to help others?
rindolfNowyouseeme: to debate?
adscno help, only panda memes pls
NowyouseemeTo help others!
rindolfadsc: can you help me find panda memes?
Nowyouseemeonly very nice people would think that
aaweI want memes too
hexingbaoNowyouseeme to see different culture
snake2kbirkoff, a simple linear search algorithm if you're not gonna sort it
vescBirkoff: If you are sorting you can do it quicker than N.
snake2kbirkoff, you'd be better off implemented a fast sorting algorithm and picking the first (or last) value off the array.
birkoffvesc interesting. how ? I'm not sorting though.
daysnake2k: sorting is faster than N?
vescI agree with snake2k
snake2kday, if it's a massive array, then yes
daybut how can you sort without having to look at each element?
rts-sanderwtf kind of shit advice is that
snake2kday, the time complexity of checking each N to the next can scale larger depending on array size. But a highly optimized sort can cut the time down.
rts-sandersort the entire array just to get one value?
daysnake2k: but then it wouldn't be O(n) any more would it?
snake2kI'm not saying to use a basic sorting algorithm because that's pointless lmao
vescrts-sander: what would you do?
snake2kyou'd be better off with just a linear search
rts-sandervesc, loop through and remember the highest encountered number
dayyeah
rindolfsnake2k: sort cannot be better than o(n)
rindolfsnake2k: see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timsort
rts-sanderunless the array is already sorted, then it's O(1) :)
vescrts-sander: the best you could get is O(n) I know a sort cand be done better than that.
vesccan*
rindolfsnake2k: and it is O(N*log(N)) worst case
rts-sandervesc, how can sorting an entire array possibly be faster than finding the largest value?
rindolfrts-sander: you need to know that is the case
vescbecause you need to know what the largest value is
snake2krindolf, I see
snake2kLet's go ape shit and do parallel processing on 4 threads 4 O(N/4)s
snake2klmao
rindolfflipchan: hi
flipchanhey rindolf
flipchanwhat's up
rindolfflipchan: i got a haircut today
rindolfflipchan: and looked into contributing to tslint, but they have 65 open pull requests
* snake2k(snake2k@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/snake2k) has left ("Leaving")
* snake2k(snake2k@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/snake2k) has joined
snake2kclosed out ##programming by mistake >_>
flipchanrindolf: cant choice one?
rindolfflipchan: what?
flipchanoh i read wrong thought u wrote 65 open issues
rindolfflipchan: ah
rts-sanderhow you're going to contribute?
rts-sanderby adding some more pull requests? :D
rindolfrts-sander: heh
rindolfrts-sander: https://xkcd.com/927/
rindolfwell, not quite the same
rindolfsnake2k: admit it - you did it on purpose. :-P
rindolfsnake2k: :)
snake2krindolf, lmao no I pressed ^W to close a firefox tab but I had my IRC client selected :P
rindolfsnake2k: ah, it happens to me too
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2018-02-07

Copyrighting Fibonacci

Display

G3nka1Hello I am finding fib number for a large series, here is my code https://pastebin.com/Eu5J4r5y but I get the following error
AbleBaconman this python looks like Greek to me. I'm so out of touch
rindolfG3nka1: hi
rindolfG3nka1: this is an inaccurate method
rindolfG3nka1: perhaps try using matrix exp
G3nka1Hi rindolf
G3nka1oh
G3nka1matrix exp?
rindolfG3nka1: yes
rindolfG3nka1: or just use the a,b = b, a+b algo
G3nka1But rindolf it will take longer that way, and stack overflows because of multiple recursions
rindolfG3nka1: what?
rindolfG3nka1: why?
GeDaMoYou don't have to do it recursively
rindolfG3nka1: do it iteratively
G3nka1rindolf, using yield
G3nka1?
rindolfG3nka1: that is an option
rindolfG3nka1: wait a sec
G3nka1alright
rindolfG3nka1: see https://github.com/shlomif/shlomif-perl-snippets/blob/master/fibonacci-iterative.py
AbleBacongood lord... you need an enormous license statement for that snippet?
rindolfAbleBacon: yes
iodevAbleBacon, LOL!!!
AbleBacon"i used this snippet in my production software and it totally destroyed everything and now I'm gonna sue"
iodevrindolf, this is illegal!
iodevyou can't copyright Fibonacci!
G3nka1rindolf, yup I also had written something similar https://paste.pound-python.org/show/WnXeO2U2BwuzHRQ8k8e2/
iodevyou can only copyright a unique idea, fibonacci-iterative.py is like copyrighting the stool :D
rindolfiodev: i copyright the code and it is Expat
AbleBaconthat's not similar... it doesn't have an elaborate license explicitly stated in the code file
iodevrindolf, well, i can do whatever I want with it, Fibonacci is public domain, you can't MIT it, if I wanna use it in proprietary software, I can
AbleBaconit's a good thing you didn't write something similar, because that shit is already copyrighted
rindolfiodev: go ahead
iodevbecause it's not really original, so not copyrighted, so you can't sue
rindolfiodev: mit allows that
AbleBacondid he just implicitly award you a license to use Fibonacci?
rindolfiodev: i wont sue you
iodevThe above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be
iodevincluded in all copies or substantial portions of the Software.
iodevno, even if I don't do this, you can't sue me rindolf
AbleBacon"i used this Fibonacci code as the random number generator for my library and my security has been cracked. I'm totally suing"
iodevrindolf, there, I broke your license :D http://dpaste.com/1NWZFH0
rindolfG3nka1: fibgen and F are identical
iodevand I dare you to sue me! rindolf make me rich, sue me :D I'll win
Trashlordheh
rindolfiodev: I'm cool with that
iodevor get the MIT to sue me, even better :D
Trashlordit didn't occur to me that I should use something like b = a, a = a+b
TrashlordI always do it like result = a+b, b = a, a = result
iodevrindolf, I'm joking pal, don't be angry okay
rindolfiodev: http://fc-solve.shlomifish.org/faq.html#abuse_of_fc_solve
TrashlordI need a course in how to not over complicated software
rindolfiodev: I'm laughing
rindolfiodev: that is OK
AbleBaconi mean, an iterative approach is what you use when generating Fibonacci numbers on paper
G3nka1I know rindolf
iodevrindolf, anyway, you see, before you MIT/GPL something you must having something Original, that is the copyrighted thing :D
iodevif anyone can make it, just like anyone can make a stool, no patent, no copyright is given, because you're not the author of anything, rindolf
AbleBaconFibonacci isn't around to say that it's not original
AbleBaconthat mofo is 6 feet under somewhere in Italy
GeDaMofibs = 0 : 1 : zipWith (+) fibs (tail fibs)
iodevI'm an amateur lawyer, rindolf :-)
iodevI like to learn legalese :D
AbleBaconI've seen a couple of episodes of law & order and i can confirm he's correct
AbleBaconthis case just needs a bombshell for the thrill factor
AbleBaconFibonacci's great-great-great-great-grandson comes in as a surprise witness
AbleBaconand testifies that Fibonacci stole the formula
iodevAbleBacon, yes, soap opera
iodevand in 20 years, he confesses on his death bead to have stolen the formula from an orphan
iodevand asks him for forgiveness through an email, and gets a "NOO!"
iodevand then he dies, crying :D
AbleBacon:-(
iodevAbleBacon, don't cry, it sells
iodevor it seems like he died, in about 200 episodes he wakes up out of a comma on a hospital bed!
iodevwhen everyone has forgotten that he was dead, and the soap opera contradicts itself :-)
rindolfheh
rindolfLOL
iodevrindolf, you are sworn to tell the truth and nothing but the truth, don't soap operas contradict themselves?
rindolfiodev: see http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Licensing_and_Law/public-domain.html
iodevLOL!!! linuxmafia
iodevrindolf, a site against Linux, unbelievable!
rindolfiodev: it isn't against Linux
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2018-03-07

Bad Maths Puns

Display

rindolfyay! I solved my long time nemesis https://projecteuler.net/problem=261
rindolfit required some maths analysis
vdamewoodrindolf: Yay.
Gamahyay maths
* vdamewoodis a math addict
Gamahbreaking rad
vdamewoodI live in sin
Batholithanyone else love tan salons?
wedr_where's punishment
BatholithPUNishment
vdamewoodBatholith: They cos too much
wedr_FUNishment
jrslepak. o O ( these jokes are sadly derivative )
vdamewoodjrslepak: We have yet to reach the limit
jrslepakoh well, bad puns are integral to the IRC experience
wedr_Yeah, where's the sigma when you needed it.
Gamahnext to the pi
Gamahwhich really is the root of all evil
TrashlordI once met a guy who had both an American and South African nationalities. He was a South African-American.
Gamahswing and a miss
vdamewoodTrashlord: That's not a math pun. Ye'r outta here
Trashlordoh. I thought we were doing general puns
Trashlordabout anything
vdamewoodNope. Bad math puns.
Trashlordoh well
Trashlordthen I'm going to eat oatmeal. Goodbye
Batholitha *real* party pooper
vdamewoodimagine that
vdamewoodThis is a complex topic.
Batholithokay that was such a long shot that I should feel bad
Trashlordyeah, it wasn't a natural math pun
Trashlordhey
Trashlordis that even a pun?
vdamewoodthis just makes me feel number and number.
Trashlordhmmm yeah, it could be
Batholithvdamewood: you're acute tea pi
vdamewoodAww, thanks.
Gamahthat incremented quickly
Batholiththere's a fine line between a numerator and a denominator.
Batholithonly a fraction of people will find that funny
d3x0rhah
GamahA wild exponential function appeared! You used DIFFERENTIATE!
GamahIt's not very effective...
Batholithdo you guys speak sine language?
vdamewoodBatholith: 5/4 of the population don't understand fractions.
Gamahi'll do algebra... i'll do trig... i'll even do statistics... but graphing is where i draw the line.
Batholithmy friend called me average. he can be so mean
Gamahhe was probably just in a bad mode
GamahI'm gonna have to save this log for later
Batholithhope you can save it in linear time
rindolfheh, heh
GamahBatholith: that joke didn't really add up
BatholithI know, it was a little odd
rindolfhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BipvGD-LCjU
rindolfBatholith: heh
Gamah√((-shit)^2)
Gamahshit just got real
rindolfGamah: heh
exio4Gamah: sqrt((-i)^2) is not real
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2018-04-02

To boldly code

Display

rts-sanderas in suddenly you'll start getting empty responses
adscan api that has 1 request per minute limit is nearly useless
rts-sanderwell it's not a limit but it's recommended
wedr_fetch(url).then((r)=> return r.OK ? r.json() : r.text()).then((json) => doStuff(json));
wedr_Pretty much
solidfoxthen
solidfoxthat's new to me.
qoxncyhawedr_: that will break for !r.OK
TywinUgh, reddit's still written in python. No wonder it's slow as hell.
qoxncyhai usually do `.then(r => { if (!r.OK) { throw r; } return r.json() })`
wedr_oh
solidfoxI write my websites in C
wedr_You should write in WebASM
wedr_:D
velcos/Web//
solidfoxnah man. I mean the backend
wedr_oh
adscsoon you will be able to write the frontend in C, too
rindolfsolidfox: my websites are mostly static html
solidfoxsweet. I can render my interface myself instead of using css
TywinIs C web-scale? Do all the cool kids use it?
rindolfTywin: /dev/null is web scale
solidfoxrindolf, ah. so you don't use any programming?
rindolfTywin: it has sharding
rindolfsolidfox: i do
Tywinrindolf, does /dev/null also have native non-blocking sharding?
Tywin:D
rindolfsolidfox: i use static site generators
rindolfsolidfox: and there is client-side js
rindolfTywin: http://shlomifishswiki.branchable.com/slash-dev-null_is_WebScale/
solidfoxrindolf, ah I see
solidfoxI think I remember now. aren't your static site generators written in perl?
Tywinrindolf, how can I get this /dev/null? What do I have to type in my 5000$ Mac?
rindolfsolidfox: see http://www.shlomifish.org/meta/site-source/
rindolfsolidfox: not entirely
rindolfTywin: just PayPal me 100 bitcoins
wedr_PayPal supports bitcoins?
wedr_Or that's a joke?
rindolfwedr_: a joke
wedr_OK
wedr_Otherwise, my co-workers going to cash all in on PayPal
wedr_They have a strut of bitcoins
wedr_Hoping to get back into the green
rindolfwedr_: he can pay me 1,000,000 USD instead
rindolfto get the coveted /dev/null
wedr_Wait until we hit 2030, when USD is probably hyper-inflating.
solidfoxwedr_, that ain't gonna happen
solidfoxwedr_, we can barely maintain current inflation rates
wedr_Hence it's a joke
arahaelrindolf: not entirely a joke, unless it is extremely widespread. There are quite a few results for 'PayPal bitcoin'
rindolfarahael: i 'd imagine
arahaelrindolf: the more promising sites seem to be old though, e.g., a pcworld article from 2015. i suspect that they may have considered it in the past. (but i haven't read it. )
wedr_or extremely fictitious and click-baity
rindolfsolidfox: https://github.com/shlomif/shlomi-fish-homepage/blob/master/.travis.yml - this is the build process
rts-sanderfor a mere 999,000 USD I'll even spin up /dev/null as a service for you
rts-sanderwhich exists already apparently: https://devnull-as-a-service.com/
Tywinrts-sander, it's expensive as hell, so it must be good. I'm talking with my management right now about buying some /dev/null.
xi-rts-sander: dispose of your data safely and efficiently with /dev/null!
rindolfTywin: heh
xi-now for only 150$ per month on a 5 year contract!
rts-sanderI legit think there's non-technical business people you could sell this to
rindolfrts-sander: see http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=mongodb-vs-dev-null
rts-sanderrindolf, this hans guy is thorough
rindolfrts-sander: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=sharp-perl-paid-version-of-cpan
rts-sanderrindolf, it's true though if you look at what some companies pay for enterprise software
rindolfrts-sander: enterprise!
rindolfto boldly code what many have coded before
rindolflol
rts-sandernot like many of us are going through uncharted territory, we at least have the decency to not pretend otherwise
rindolfrts-sander: enterprise software! https://fc-solve.blogspot.co.il/2010/03/01-april-2010-freecell-solver.html
rts-sanderrindolf, consistent usage of the trademark symbol
rts-sanderif you miss it once your intellectual property might get stolen!
rts-sander"Eh, what the hell?" lol
rindolfrts-sander: heh. That is True™
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2018-05-09

Compilation Speeds

Display

GeDaMoTurbo Pascal :P
rindolfGeDaMo: where?
Aruseusmany modern language features are slow to compile. rust has that problem too
InPhaseFast compilation, fast development, fast runtime. Choose 2.
rindolfInPhase: heh
rindolfInPhase: 2 or less
GeDaMorindolf: that was to beaky's "instant compile speeds"
rindolfGeDaMo: ah
InPhaseThere's a fundamental reason one ends up with that trade-off of choosing 2. Turning complicated ideas into fast instructions is complicated. And that complexity has to eventually be processed somewhere, either in the head of the programmer, by the compiler, or as a runtime cost.
rindolfInPhase: interesting
_W_most slow compilers are so, not because it is necessary, but simply because making it fast hasn't been a priority
_W_s/so/slow
InPhase_W_: Well the major C++ compiler designers, and the C++ language committee, reportedly spent effort trying to significantly speed up compilation in recent years. But I think we can see there were not many meaningful results from those efforts. They've had trouble finding ways that don't majorly break the features that make the C++ runtime fast.
xenoif I don't learn how to read a file line by line in Swift, this one will also be slow, memory consuming or unstable ;/
xeno:/
_W_well C++ compilation is already relatively fast, so it makes sense that there wouldn't be a lot to gain
jeayeThere have been huge results in the reduction of TMP compilation speeds, thanks to pressure from the clang/llvm world.
jeayeTemplates, of course, being the biggest practical slowdown in C++ compilation, that's a big win.
rindolfjeaye: what is TMP?
jeayerindolf: Template MetaProgramming
_W_I'd go so far as to say that there's more of a correlation between how young a language is and how slow its compilation is, than between complexity of language and how slow the compilation is
rindolfjeaye: ah
SlashLifejeaye: And to be fair, I don't think it was obvious 20-25 years ago how big TMP would become.
rindolf_W_: some languages started off with fast compilers
_W_yes, it's not a hard rule by any means
rindolf_W_: and gcc got slower - https://github.com/shlomif/fc-solve/blob/master/fc-solve/docs/gcc-2.95.txt
gehnfast in terms of time to compile? or fast in terms of the performance of the resulting executable?
_W_gehn: time spent in compilation was what was being discussed
_W_(and contrasted up against speed of development and speed of execution)
gehnah
xenowould guess most languages started off with fast compilers that got slower
_W_probably, at least up to some level of complexity and features
velcospeed of development is subjective, its place is not at all with the other too
velcotwo*
gehncompile time is certainly something that impacts dev time
gehnat least in my experience
gehnI like C++, but I don't love everything about it. it would be nice if we had significantly faster C++ compile times
velcoin my experience, it does impact time taken only when not writing code
gehnwell, testing the code written is a pretty important and continuous process of my development
gehnI have unit tests, but those don't cover everything
gehnand GUIs are often more difficult to test at all
gehnespecially difficult to test things like the result of a render operation on an OpenGL context
gehnso, needing to wait a significant amount of time (upwards of a minute or several) just to test some fairly simple change can spiral time-to-dev costs
rindolfgehn: yes
rindolfgehn: using ccache has changed my life
velcowhat percentage of this time is spent compiling? and what is spent analysing the issue, coming up with a solution, implementing the solution, writing a test, code review, running the test?
gehnrindolf, is that different from how a Makefile or whatever (or a cmake generated project) should be able to detect which files need compile and which don't?
gehnvelco, like I said, it's not always feasible to write a test for everything
rindolfgehn: sometimes it is
gehnI don't have an answer as to exact percentage, but on many days I suspect I spend almost 50% of my total time waiting for compiles
rindolfgehn: if you did make clean for example
velcogehn: Sure. Why do you feel compelled to tell this to me?
gehnthat might be an overestimate, but it's not far away
Aruseusgehn, if you have a file b that depends on a. if you change a, then you'll need to recompile b even if you didn't change it at all. so probably not everything will change
gehnvelco, were you not asking the percentage question as a response to what I had said?
rindolfobxkcd: https://www.xkcd.com/303/
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gehnunit tests help a lot
* Mutex7(~Mutex7@S010620e52a28896a.wp.shawcable.net) has joined
velcogehn: yes, and if you don't write test, my list potentially incomplete list of things allows for a 0 percent
gehnbecause they compile much faster as each unit is typically decoupled from the entire app
* goiko__(~goiko@pD95836BC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined
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velcogehn: sound like you need to rethink your workflow
gehnvelco, sorry I don't understand what you just said
gehnvelco, maybe, but I'm not sure what to change about said workflow
velcogehn: I have not put a restriction of non-zero time on any particular item in my list, so I don't understand why do you need to tell me some of these may take zero time
gehnso, it's great to write unit tests, and I write a lot of them, but when doing more GUI centric integration centric work - a workflow centered around unit tests isn't viable
gehnvelco, I seriously still don't understand what you're saying?
gehnwhen did I say anything about zero time?
rindolfgehn: there is also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distcc
gehnvelco, yes, what about that statement?
velcoI have found that a a simple change incurs less than 2 minutes of building of a large c++ project, most of it spent in linking
gehn2 minutes is still kind of a lot
gehnI tend to not write tons of code before recompiling and testing
gehnso I might spend anywhere from 30s to 5 minutes on a few lines, and then I usually want to test again before moving on
gehnwith unit tests where compilation and runtime is usually < 20-30s that's mostly not an issue
gehnbut when compile times start to rise above the minute-or-several mark, then this begins to become more of a problematic issue
velcowhy run compilation and test so often?
gehnI think the answer to that should be fairly clear to many if not most devs
velcoI run it when I have written a committable amount of code
exio4_nozncvelco: fail early
gehnthe more lines of code you write the more chance that you've made a mistake, and the further you go without checking your work, the more likely it is you'll end up in a very difficult to debug situation that consumes more time than it should
velcoexio4_noznc: it looks to me that some fail even before starting :P
gde33shouldn't make mistakes
gehnlinting helps with that a lot
gehnbut still doesn't prevent logic or runtime errors
velcogehn: that does not come form my experience; it is very rare I have an error in each line I write
gehnso I guess velco is a near god-like perfect programmer
velcoin fact, most are correct; hence, testing them in isolation proves pointless
gehnfor the rest of us mortals however...
gehnI don't test lines in isolation
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2018-05-09

Dogs on the Internet

Display

DnzAtWrkwow, I need to go on a quest for coffee
rindolfCoffee Quest
Mangy_DogThe Legend of the Bitter bean
rindolfMangy_Dog: heh
Mangy_Dog:>
Mangy_Dogi had a second mug of a rather strong coffee
Mangy_Dogi should not have any more
rindolfMangy_Dog: i don't drink coffee
Mangy_Dog:o
Mangy_Dogtea?
rindolfMangy_Dog: i also refrain from caffeinated beverages
Mangy_Dog:o
Mangy_Dogheathen
rindolfMangy_Dog: fruit tea
Mangy_Dogand you call yourself a programmer :p
rindolfMangy_Dog: heh, yes - i call myself a programmer
amigojapan_rindolf: there are many stereotypes about programmers which don't always apply
rindolfamigojapan_: right
rindolfamigojapan_: some programmers are dog people
rindolfamigojapan_: and some go to bed early
amigojapan_rindolf: hehehe, I bet that is quite common
rindolfMangy_Dog: woof
Mangy_Dogbark
Mangy_Dogaww sorry to hear it
rindolfMangy_Dog: roar
* Mangy_Dogbark bark bark
rindolfMangy_Dog: meow
* Mangy_Doghead tilts
rindolfwe should start a zoo
Mangy_Dogimma confused doggo
rindolfPeyam: https://abstrusegoose.com/249
rindolfMangy_Dog: there are no dogs on the internet!
Mangy_Dogbut
Mangy_Dogimma dog
rindolfMangy_Dog: :)
listenobody on the internet knows you're a dog
listeunless you explicitly tell it
Mangy_Dogheh
listehttps://www.openparenthesis.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/idog.jpg
* moriartybarks
rindolfMangy_Dog: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=dogs-on-the-Internet
* moriartystarts dry-humping Mangy_Dog
Mangy_Dog:o
* Mangy_Dogtries to shake moriarty off
* moriartyholds steadily on like a cool skateboarder
moriarty:D
* biberuprepares an ad for puppies
listean ad targeted for puppies?
Mangy_Dogbut I'm a male doggo
listenow that's some next-level marketing stuff
AwocaHip hop dogs.
moriartyMangy_Dog, that's OK, we'd just pretend this is prison
moriarty;)
Mangy_Dog:o
Mangy_Dog:o
biberuliste: targeted at Chinese restaurateurs
Mangy_Dogoh I'm gay BTW... but i don't make puppies
rindolfMangy_Dog: ah
Lil_SmurfTV for dogs
rindolfMangy_Dog: a gay male dog?
Mangy_Dogber arks
rindolfon the internet!
rindolfMangy_Dog: and you drink coffee
Mangy_Dogyep
rindolfMangy_Dog: you are a wonder dog
Mangy_Dogyay
rindolfMangy_Dog: do you conspire to take over the world?
Mangy_Dognaaa
rindolfheh
Mangy_Dogthe big muscly wolves and tigers are set to take over the world
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2018-07-13

The voiceless Trashlord

Display

rindolfhmmm,,,, Trashlord no longer has +v
vdamewoodHe must have left the channel for a second or something.
rindolfTrashlord: welcome to the commoner class
navkthxTrashcommoner
rts-sanderfilthy peasant
rindolfnavkthx: heh
rindolfpleb
navkthx^^
* rindolfis joking
rts-sanderI'm not, I'm 100% serious
navkthxas a heart-attack
arahael"let them eat cake".
rindolfrts-sander: heh
rindolfarahael: BTW, this phrase predates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Antoinette
rindolfTrashlord: how do you feel wo +v?
jeayeTrashlord: how do you feel w +ov?
Trashlordrindolf: feels weird after 4 months. But I wasn't voiced because I'm special, but rather because of a spammer. Multiple people were voiced and my bouncer just happened to be stable so I remained voiced the whole time
solidfoxwhat is w +ov and wo +v
rindolfTrashlord: ah
Trashlordjeaye: if I was +o it would have been easier, because some people thought I was channel staff. I started getting private messages asking why X is banned, etc
rindolfsolidfox: without voice
solidfoxso w +ov must be with op and voice
rindolfTrashlord: did you see us joking about it earlier?
jeayesolidfox: Mine's just wordplay on rindolf's.
solidfoxjeaye, oh OK lol
Trashlordrindolf: don't think that I did
rindolfTrashlord: ah
rindolfTrashlord: scroll up
rindolfTrashlord: sup?
Trashlordrindolf: to what time?
Trashlordrindolf: I'm trying to bake pitas again
rindolfTrashlord: ah
TrashlordI might have not been here when that conversation took place
Trashlordif it was more than 2 hours ago
rindolfTrashlord: we mentioned your nick
rindolfTrashlord: i can paste it
Trashlordrindolf: alright, paste
tbejosrindolf: you do a lot of programming on graphics and video systems right?
rindolfTrashlord: http://www.shlomifish.org/Files/files/text/irc.log.txt
rindolftbejos: possibly - nothing too much low level
tbejosrindolf: well this project might be of interest to you https://github.com/gnif/LookingGlass
tbejosit is a little low level, to be honest
solidfoxrindolf, the rules say no loggers, does that apply to excerpts?
Trashlordrindolf: ah
Trashlordwell, I lost my voice because my bouncer got disconnected
Trashlord¯\_(ツ)_/¯
rindolfsolidfox: i think not
solidfoxwe need a +v bot
solidfoxto enable +v
solidfoxon anyone who asks
rindolfsolidfox: we used to have Archer
solidfoxrindolf, archer was a person
rindolfTrashlord: bad bouncer
Trashlordrindolf: it was on for 4 months
solidfoxand he only let certain people have +v :<
rindolfTrashlord: fire them
Trashlordmy longest connection streak ever
Trashlordrindolf: it's from a friend
Trashlordhosted on one of his servers
rindolfsolidfox: it was also a bot
solidfoxrindolf, ah I see
solidfoxrindolf, I was trying bot commands and he replied "tisk tisk tisk" lol
solidfoxit surprised me
POJObut "hello world!" will not get me there, even in a loop
solidfoxwell not really algorithms, that might be going a bit overboard
rindolfsolidfox: i have some selected conversations from here on my site
solidfoxrindolf, that is probably OK
solidfoxi was just curious
rindolfTrashlord: ah
rindolfTrashlord: fire your friend
Trashlordrindolf: heh
Trashlordrindolf: the bouncer is good
Trashlordrindolf: and I'm getting it for free
rindolfTrashlord: OK
Trashlordnot gonna complain
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2018-07-26

Your Mum Needs a lot of RAM

Display

mrigoften wondered why a list of objects is called a vector in C++ too, seems some how related.
vdamewoodmrig: Because Cartesian vectors are just a list of values in math.
mrigright yes.
velcothat's he original mathematical definition of vector: tuple of scalars
vdamewoodmrig: So the term was borrowed in the old days by some. Some others uses 'array' for the term.
vdamewoodC++ has a std::vector type because of this legacy
mrigand the array gets conflated with matrices too.
DnzAtWrkisn't a vector like a direction, compared to a coordinate
mrigOK
deniskaI mean, a matrix is just a vector of vectors :P
vdamewoodDnzAtWrk: It can be, yes.
deniskaDnzAtWrk: a vector can represent both a direction, and a coordinate
DnzAtWrkI tried learning what tensors are the other day
DnzAtWrkseems like people can't agree on definitions of these things
velcoboth a direction and a position
vdamewoodIsn't he they guy with the floating disc?
deniskavector is just a clever name for "a bunch of numbers" :)
mrigdeniska: well it is kinda the axis rather than that value no?
vdamewoodTensor's Floating Disc?
listevectors have length in addition to a direction
xenoDnzAtWrk: when you did, did you go the math route, or did you try to follow some CS thing?
deniskamrig: a coordinate is a pair of numbers, a vector is a pair of numbers, they are essentially the same thing
DnzAtWrkBoth
deniska(a 2d vector I should say)
DnzAtWrkand I still barely get it
listea vector stemming from origin can represent a coordinate pair
vdamewoodA 2d number sounds complex.
rts-sandera vector can represent just about anything
rts-sanderwhen given enough dimensions
* vdamewooduses a vector to represent rts-sander's mom
deniskaa vector can represent your face
deniskaand your mom
rts-sanderoh sheit
vdamewoodI've already got a vector for you mom.
rts-sandervdamewood, I'd do the same for you but even my 32GB of ram couldn't fit your mum
velcour mom is infinite field of scalars
* vdamewoodbows to rts-sander
mobile_cur mom is worth 33 GB 0.0
DnzAtWrkseems fine
DnzAtWrkyour mom has a high generality
mobile_cXD
`sliktsis that a way of saying fat
vdamewoodMy band is like 999 MB. No gigs yet.
gde33higher languages (basic) so much fun!
mobile_cgde33: as in Visual Basic?
DnzAtWrknaw I'll just use nbasic
gde33mobile_c: as in all higher languages are basic
mobile_cgde33: oki
* vdamewoodmakes a new programming language called SIMPLE
rindolfvdamewood: heh
rindolfvdamewood: call it "easy"
* vdamewoodmakes another programming language called EZ
* inhahemakes an esolang called Complicated
listeinhahe: that'd be Malbolge :)
vdamewoodNow I'm making a backup of my backup.
* gde33wants to make a language called Terrorism
dostoyevskyPonzi scheme is still the most popular
gde33should be hackers, then you can say you are using hackers
vdamewoodA language should be called 'Yo mom', So books can be titled "Programming with Yo Mom"
deniskaYo mom for beginners
gde33embedded yo mom
vdamewoodYo Mom in 24 Hours
inhaheDebugging Yo Mom
deniskaHead first in yo mom
vdamewoodYo Mom, the Hard Way
gde33chapter 1: objects in yo mom
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2018-11-18

There are at least two inches in a mile

Display

bytefirethat stuff goes over my head
ph88over my head as well :P
bytefiremay be half inch above your head and 50 feet above mine :)
rindolfbytefire: what barbaric measurements
rindolfbytefire: quick - how many inches are in a mile?
vdamewoodall of them
jrslepak. o O ( how many barrels in an acre-foot? )
rindolfvdamewood: i guess the capital of Ohio is "O" then
adschow many fathoms in a furlong?
bytefirerindolf: there are more than 2 inches in a mile
jrslepakof course, none of this is as dumb as having 112 pounds in a hundredweight
rindolfbytefire: so 3?
mrigto many to fathom!
Inlineif in doubt use your elbows
Inlinelol
bytefirerindolf: well... there are 3 inches in a mile. there are other inches in a mile as well.
Inlineone bow and one bow bowbow
mrigYes that is how you get to the front of the Que in France.
Inlinewowow
rindolfbytefire: heh
bytefire:D
Inlinebow wow au
Inlinelol
mrigA foot is a fair measure of spacetime :P
rindolfbytefire: i'll take the first 20 inches in the mile
vdamewoodSpeaking of spacetime, how many meters are in a second?
vdamewoodmany*
bytefirelol
Inlinenaaa all you need is a clock and an inch stick to measure spacetime
Inlinelol
wedrclock is just an invention
wedrall you need is a stick
mrigan 1/12th of is naturally a senseful measure of nought!
* vdamewoodsticks to the invention.
* wedrinvented sticks
rindolfvdamewood: i wondered that as well
vdamewoodrindolf: I have no way to prove it, but I always figured that there were c*s meters in a second.
mrigif a nautical mile is genuinely 60 minutes, how much is an inch in time?
mrig:P
wedrmrig: a litter.
mrigah" that is 1/12th an ah'
Inlineas big as the sailor
vdamewoodrindolf: That is, the time it takes light to travel a certain distance is that distance in time.
Inlineloll
mrigor is that vis versa?
rindolfvdamewood: ah
Inlinetailor the sailor without failure
* Inlinesings
Inlinelol
* mrigfades into a black hole and emerges upon a brand new time line.
mrigshiny!
wedrwtf, you invented a stick
wedrnow we have to measure how long the new timeline is.
wedrYou monster.
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2019-02-18

Educating Machines

Display

* dan01(~dan01@) has joined
rindolfdan01: arrrrR
sir_galahad_aday
rindolfsir_galahad_ad: hello me hearty
rindolfsir_galahad_ad: dan01 has to use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_(programming_language)
sir_galahad_adah
rindolfsir_galahad_ad: and he hates it
sir_galahad_adbut machine learning and stuff!
rindolfsir_galahad_ad: if a machine wishes to learn it should go to college! ;)
sir_galahad_adbut it can't afford tuition on a machine's salary
rindolfsir_galahad_ad: it should get a student's loan then
rindolfsir_galahad_ad: or apply for a scholarship
rindolfsir_galahad_ad: we cannot have ignorant machines
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2019-06-01

Vanilla software and Real Programmers

Display

Trashlordwhere did the term "vanilla software" come from? Why vanilla?
_kmh_Trashlord, like vanilla sex?
Trashlord_kmh_: I didn't know that was a term
rindolfTrashlord: vanilla means plain, raw, with no additions
rindolfTrashlord: like vanilla icecream
Trashlordrindolf: why not chocolate software then, like plain chocolate ice cream?
rindolfTrashlord: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vanilla
gwosixwhat the fuck is "vanilla software"
_kmh_vanilla vs edgy/kinky/spicy/different from the norm
_kmh_be it software, sex or whatever
rindolfTrashlord: chocolate has a more noticeable flavour
gwosixdoes Microsoft office count as vanilla software?
Trashlordrindolf: alright
gwosixvanilla is like beige
rindolfTrashlord: and colour
rindolfgwosix: like vanilla js
_kmh_Java, C, python and alike are vanilla
InPhasegwosix: Microsoft Office is more like an $8 bottle of asparagus water.
_kmh_brainfuck is not
IRCMonkeyVanilla means plain ol'; nothing fancy.
Trashlordrindolf: but vanilla ice cream is white
IRCMonkeySometimes means original version.
koollman_kmh_: how do you attribute flavor ? :)
rindolf_kmh_: what?
_kmh_Trashlord, white with a touch of yellow
TrashlordOK
_kmh_https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck
andrei-nI noticed that to be a good programmer you have to be a good writer: you have to be able to write comments, tutorials, explanation, and documentation and be not ashamed to show it to other people. What is your opinion?
_kmh_lol
_kmh_https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanilla_software
_kmh_there is actually wikipedia entry for it
rindolfandrei-n: hi
rindolfandrei-n: http://blog.red-bean.com/sussman/?p=96
_kmh_andrei-n, to be good programmer you gotta be good at everything :)
_kmh_the goose laying golden eggs
koollman_kmh_: I mean, I know what vanilla means in this context. But how would the system-provided brainfuck be less vanilla than system provided Java ? :)
andrei-n_kmh_, yeah, I even started copywork in order to improve concentration and memory... It's never enough.
koollman(I do agree that brainfuck is esoteric)
koollman_kmh_: I mean, on some Linux distributions it's easier to get brainfuck than oracle Java :)
IRCMonkeyBrainfuck is insane
Myr_kmh_ : That would qualify you as a developer
tiggster79andrei-n: To be a good programmer first and foremost you have to be good at logical thinking and problem solving. The rest are just details.
Trashlordto be a good programmer you have to be able to quit vim
tiggster79LOL
rindolfTrashlord: heh
rindolflol
tiggster79oh yeah, and real programmers use vim :)
IRCMonkeyWinners never quit, quitters never win …
* rindolfwins vim
rindolfbecause i couldn't quit it
Trashlordlol
andrei-ntiggster79, I noticed that I'm not even able to understand the problems on spoj, leetcode and project-euler. That means I'm really bad at reading... So I have to improve this before even trying to become better at problem solving...
MyrVim is for the lazy, nano is where it's at
rindolfTrashlord: :)
Trashlordrindolf: :)
deniskanano is for people who are too scared to use notepad.exe
rindolfMyr: https://xkcd.com/378/
tiggster79deniska: nano is for people who want to use the terminal, but are too afraid to use vim.
Myrrindolf: you got me there, never could grasp butterfly
rindolfMyr: heh
rindolfMyr: use emacs then
rindolfMyr: it has m-x butterfly
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2019-07-15

The European Bundle

Display

zenix_2k2so someone here advised me to compile my program on Windows 10 and it is gonna work backward on the other versions, but when i run on Windows 8 it says something like "api-ms-win-crt-runtime-l1-1-0.dll is missing"
rindolfzenix_2k2: i recall similar issues
zenix_2k2and i was trying to compile the program with pyinstaller
Arahaelzenix_2k2: You need to find the redistributable for the libraries you're using, and install them. Looks like windows 10 has it by default.
zenix_2k2more like freezing it
Arahaelzenix_2k2: That said, the convention in most environments is to get the *oldest* environment you want to support, and use that.
Arahaelzenix_2k2: Older apps tend to work well on newer systems. The reverse is not usually true.
deniskazenix_2k2: when compiling for compatibility, you probably would want to go with older systems rather than newer
zenix_2k2well, maybe i will just compile on Windows 8 and hopefully it will work on win10 and win7
deniska(not sure how it works on windows though)
Arahaelzenix_2k2: In that case, compile on windows 7.
deniskaif you want to target win7, you probably should use win7
zenix_2k2that's weird, some people here said i should have compiled on win10
zenix_2k2it is gonna work backward
zenix_2k2or maybe i lagged :P
vdamewoodWindows 7 is EOL in 7 months.
zenix_2k2well... but i bet its apps will still work on windows 10 and 8
vdamewoodzenix_2k2: Compiling for Windows 7 on Windows 10 should, in theory work, as long as you only use libraries that come with 7.
vdamewoodSame with 8.1.
rindolfzenix_2k2: Arahael deniska : I think the https://pysolfc.sourceforge.io/ packages work fine on older windows and they are built on win10
zenix_2k2does this mean i should ask my users to install the appropriate libraries every time they use my program ?
Arahaelrindolf: If you know what you're doing, sure.
Arahaelrindolf: But if you're struggling, well, one *very obvious* way to figure it out is to just use the oldest system.
rindolfzenix_2k2: you can bundle them
vdamewoodzenix_2k2: The thing is, I think that missing lib you mentioned isn't distributed with Windows before 10. Maybe before 8.0.
deniskadepending on the licensing terms of this library, you may redistribute it with your program
rindolfArahael: yes
zenix_2k2rindolf : bundle ? this sounds new to me
vdamewooddeniska: It looks like an MS-supplied library. MS is basically You may distribute Release versions of the dll's freely. No modification, no source, no static libs, and no debug versions.
rindolfzenix_2k2: it is an English word
zenix_2k2yea but its definition in this situation isn't
rindolfzenix_2k2: means "to include"
zenix_2k2yes i know, but when you talk about include, i can only imagine something like "#include"
zenix_2k2in C, C++ programs
vdamewoodzenix_2k2: Think more like zip myzip myapp foo.dll
vdamewoodThat's a terrible command.
rindolfzenix_2k2: include has a more general meaning
vdamewoodzenix_2k2: Anyway, think about 'including' something in the same archive file, or such, when people speak of bundling.
rindolfzenix_2k2: like "europeans, including Frenchmen, are ..."
* vdamewoodbundles France with Europe.
rindolfvdamewood: heh
* Arahaelthinks #include <frenchmen> is a bit weird.
rindolfvdamewood: will it cost extra?
vdamewood#include <frenchman.h>
vdamewood#include <aussie.h>
Arahael#include <australia.cpp>
zenix_2k2yea, that is a good example, so bundle in this case is like a zip file ?
deniska#ifdef __deal__ #include <uk>
deniska>_>
deniska<_<
Arahaeldeniska: Isn't that over yet?
deniskadunno, I don't really follow this
vdamewoodzenix_2k2: Yeah, same concept. You just include it with your installer program, though, which often is something similar to a self-extracting zip file.
zenix_2k2Hm, i don't think pyinstaller offers any option like that
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2019-07-15

Last of the Mercurialians

Display

mobinoobmercurial is on the way out folks: https://bitbucket.org/blog/sunsetting-mercurial-support-in-bitbucket
mobinoobtime to buckle up and git gud
rindolfmobinoob: saw that
merijnmobinoob: pfft, that won't stop me from using Mercurial :)
merijnmobinoob: I've been using GitHub as main host for my code in mercurial for years to prepare for this moment :p
mobinoobthe mercurial rats swim to the last big sinking ship :)
mobinoobmerijn, haha but at some point you'll have to learn git though :)
duncanDoes github support mercurial or do you just push it there as a git repo?
merijnmobinoob: Why? I've managed with Mercurial since 2009 across 3 different companies where everyone was using git
merijnduncan: hg-git extension allows bidirectional conversion/interaction with git
duncanI have in my mind a long-standing idea to write a host for rcs projects that merely offers an rsync interface
merijnduncan: So I just clone with "hg clone git+ssh://url" work with Mercurial and when I'm done I just do "hg push" and it Just Works (TM) (unless there's git submodules, then things get super annoying)
merijnBut then submodules are also annoying in git :p
duncanI do understand they compare closely which is nice
merijnduncan: The data model is very similar, the approach to UI/workflow is not, Mercurial is much more human friendly :p
duncanFor keeping track of notes I like to use rcs as it is so simple and reliable
mobinoobmerijn, can you also do interactive rebases etc?
merijnmobinoob: Why wouldn't you?
mobinoobmerijn, idk maybe there's some subset of functionality that isn't available via merc
mobinoobyou wouldn't know because you don't know git after all
rindolfduncan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revision_Control_System - this?
mobinoobyou're missing out
duncanYup, good old rcs
rindolfduncan: i use git or hg for notes
duncanI have many such notes and the emacs rcs interface is good
merijnmobinoob: Some people say Mercurial doesn't "natively" support rebases, etc. because rebase is technically an extension, but it's an extension that's maintained by the Mercurial core team and ships as part of the standard mercurial install, so I think that's kinda nonsense
merijnmobinoob: I would actually argue that the evolve extension of Mercurial is infinitely better than interactive rebases
mobinoobmerijn, yeah an extension by the core team is good enough
mobinoobalright guess there's no problem then
merijnmobinoob: https://www.mercurial-scm.org/doc/evolution/
mobinoobit's like a javascript developer that only programs in some language that compiles to javascript
mobinoobbut less severe as it's more personal
Jck_trueSadly it seems like Bitbucket is dropping support for mercurial... So getting hosting for open source project is gonna get even harder under hg
vdamewoodJck_true: That rather sucks. hg is one of the two SCMs that don't suck.
duncanWhat is the other one?
vdamewoodduncan: git
velcoas they say in the announcement, git just won.
velcothey've got like 1% of users using hg
vdamewoodThough, hg's development does seem to be lagging behind the Python 2 EOL party.
velcoand that's not the top of the foodchain 1% :P
mobinoobpopular doesn't always mean better though
duncanvdamewood: it is full of stuff like `git-clip-submodule --sense-change [ --cripple-branch | --overcome-archive | --hurtle-nag-subtree ]` though
vdamewoodduncan: So?
duncanIt is a tad confusing
mobinoobtad
mrigoh Hg is mercury, right got to the same page in the end :)
mrigI was just admiring how easy it is to use a bare remote git repo on any server; Love git.
mrigThat said I have never tried mercurial, likely a little slow compared to git no?
Jck_trueSpeed was never an issue for me on my personal projects
vdamewoodduncan: Is that enough for it to suck?
mrignot that it would make the slightest difference on any of my tiny projects.
icholyall projects start small
Jck_trueAnd wait what... As I read the blog post are they simply gonna scrap all hg repositories?!?
duncanI thought hg is faster than git
icholynoo
icholyJck_true: where you reading that?
Jck_true"Mercurial features and repositories will be officially removed from Bitbucket and its API on June 1, 2020."
mobinooband I never found git to be super fast
icholymobinoob: have you ever worked with svn?
mobinoobicholy, once
mobinoobicholy, svn is another level of shit though
icholyused to be the best
icholy"best"
Jck_trueSVN does however have the fantastic TortoiseSVN interface... Which makes it great for non command-line users...
Jck_trueAnd there is something nice about the "everything is on the server"
mobinooblmao you're joking right?
vdamewoodI wonder what major open-source projects still use Hg.
rindolfmobinoob: what is faster than git? perforce?
rindolfvdamewood: firefox
vdamewoodrindolf: I thought they might. I wonder if Thunderbird does, too.
mobinoobrindolf, idk
Jck_truemobinoob: You're welcome to call me stupid. But like 40% of the time I don't know what the fuck I am doing when it comes to git stuff...
rindolfvdamewood: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercurial
mobinoobJck_true, we all make mistakes, it's never too late to git gud
icholyrapidwave: most are hand-written
rindolfJck_true: i still miss the simplicity and transparency of the svn model
rindolfJck_true: though I'm mostly using git and hg now
mobinoobonce you get git at the basic level it becomes easy in usage
rindolfJck_true: but i don't feel i understand their program model
icholytook me a long time before I really "got" git
mobinoobthe process takes years and requires an inquisitive mind
icholythis talk is pretty good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCnnSryzPrE
Jck_trueThat is such backwards thinking... ~60 years of computer science? And Git is the best we can do?
icholyJck_true: I feel ya
Jck_true(But only if you spend a few years learning it)
mobinoobJck_true, Linus would be sad to see those words
icholyit's really great once you master it though
icholykinda like vim
icholythe UX is the main issue with git
mobinoobdamn git was created in 2005, doesn't seem that old
mobinoobas in 2005 wasn't that long ago
Jck_trueThat is how I tried explaining it to my ex wife. Told her she just needed a few more years getting to know me and then everything would be great between us
icholylmao
mobinoobon the first date: "just let me fuck you for a couple of years, eventually it'll git gud"
noteqstmonot that long ago? hmm git is half as old as x86 arch?
rindolfJck_true: heh
noteqstmo386 i mean
noteqstmowait was 286 32 bit?
rindolfnoteqstmo: it wasn't
GeDaMo"The Intel 80286[3] (also marketed as the iAPX 286[4] and often called Intel 286) is a 16-bit microprocessor" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_80286
rindolfnoteqstmo: the first x86 was 8086/8088
noteqstmoyeah definitely meant 386 with that comment then
rindolfnoteqstmo: and it was compatible with the 8080
GeDaMoOnly in the sense that 8080 assembly could be run through a translator to get 8086 assembly
rindolfthere was also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zilog
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
TaglineLet's give it a few years
Published2019-08-22

Prioritizing Money

Display

WebStormit seems in my country node jobs pay about $20k more a year than rails jobs
WebStormI guess if I want $20k extra I should stick to node
WebStormI did some research
pulsepeople who see programming just as a way of making money weird me out
deniskapulse: I started programming because it seemed like a fun thing to do, and as a bonus I can also have jobs involving it
pulsedeniska, that's a proper mindset
deniskabut caring about programming only from 9 to 5 is a valid mindset too
pulsedeniska, disagreed
pulseif you treat programming as a way to get money then your code will necessarily suck
pulseyou should treat code with all the respect it deserves, and consider money as a happy side product
pulseit's the same in any other craft, to be honest
pulseprioritizing money means you don't give the craft the attention it requires
rindolfpulse: and it likely will result in less money
pulserindolf, yes, ironically enough
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2021-07-07

X-Y Problem

Display

eson123so question, i am intending to make a feature where a user makes a purchase or anything, it will send an email to the admin, but that does require me to create an email first and put it in the config in the backend, is there anyhow i can send email anonymously ?
rindolfeson123: hi
eson123oh hi
rindolfeson123: https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/image-macros/indiv-nodes/set_up_email_service.xhtml
bayazTitle: Shlomif’s Memes - “One does not simply set up an E-mail service.”
eson123rindolf: oh no, that's more unecessary work
rindolfeson123: you can use 'do-not-reply@eson123site.tld'
eson123doesn't that still require me to setup my own email server ?
rindolfeson123: no, see the DNS MX record
rindolfeson123:
PlanckWalkYes, generally anything can send mail *to* an address.
PlanckWalkIf you don't own the receiving server it's a good idea to whitelist your sending thing though.
PlanckWalk(Which may involve SPF and DMARC and so on)
OverCoderhello
OverCoderI need a nice way to manage secrets in a giga project
OverCoderWhat felt like the best way to manage secrets is Google Secret Manager
InPhaseI simply setup an email service. And it works more reliably than all the other email services I have access to. It wasn't really too hard.
OverCoderbut for compute resources, we don't use GCP computes (yet), because they're very expensive
OverCoderThis "giga project" is actually a monorepo, and secrets can be text or files
OverCoderI'm not quite sure how to manage this stuff nicely
OverCoderSome secret files may be shared by all packages
OverCodersome files are scoped to specific packages
OverCoderetc.
InPhaseThere are a few extra steps now compared to setting up email services in the 90s, but not really that much.
OverCoderAlso Docker Compose is used to bring up all the packages
OverCoderso the question is, what's a nice way to manage secrets
PlanckWalkYes, I run my own email server
PlanckWalkAlso, setting up a special purpose server that only sends or receives mail on a single address is very trivial.
PlanckWalkYou can then mostly not care what goofball anti-spam measures the rest of the world lurches into.
PlanckWalkThere's still a piece of equipment in a mine in Western Australia which reliably sends reports. I set it up in 2002.
PlanckWalkIt doesn't have any fancy antispam stuff and the receiving email server doesn't care.
OverCoderhow do you guys manage things like bucket names in code
OverCoderor basically any identifier for some resource on a cloud provider
OverCoderI can't wrap my head around this
OverCoderevery solution I come up with ends up gross
OverCoderlike I don't want to hardware `some-whatever-value` every time I want to access the bucket named `some-whatever-value`
OverCoderbecause (1) it sounds easy to type `some-whetever-value` accidentally and spend 5 hours trying to figure out what's wrong
OverCoder(2) I don't like that the validation is not compile time
OverCoder(3) I don't like how hard it is to change that name later, yes Ctrl-Shift-F may work but it's not very elegant
OverCoder(4) it's not possible to tell how many buckets a service uses at a glance
OverCoderI'm not even being specific about bucket names either, but any cloud provider resource including service accounts, cloud functions, pubsub subscriptions, etc.
rindolfOverCoder: wrap in an object?
OverCoderrindolf, something like this right? https://irc.overcoder.dev/uploads/81ed78804ecdf0d0/image.png
OverCoderthing is, for example TypeScript has a feature where it can validate strings to conform to a certain shape
OverCoderso for example I want the `users` bucket to only contain keys of certain formats and only
OverCodernot sure how to put this together entirely
OverCoderI mean yes I could write an entire giga types file and type checks all this stuff
OverCoderbut overall I'm confused as what people do
OverCoderbecause the issue seems not google-able
OverCoderas if I am googling a problem no one has
* OverCoderis confused
rindolfOverCoder: more like `MyBucketName(name='myname') `
OverCoderrindolf, yes but what validates `myname` is even remotely a relevant name on cloud?
rindolfOverCoder: your tests suite
OverCodertests are ridiculous
OverCoderit's just typing the code twice
OverCoderi don't do it
enxineme either. i don't code too. i make an infinite loop and wait for random bytes to arrange in a program i want.
rindolfOverCoder: with code introspection then?
OverCoderwhat's that
rindolfenxine: heh
suppermanbuckets should be clearly labelled, mashed potatos, gravy, macaronis, etc
rindolfenxine: https://shlomifishswiki.branchable.com/slash-dev-null_is_WebScale/
bayazTitle: slash-dev-null is WebScale
enxinehehe
deciderwhy not just put everything into a json file and load it at run time? its not great but seems like its the standard way of handling these things
ornxcode doesn't work, any tips?
rindolfOverCoder: google / ddg it
ornxthx bro, i'll see if that works
ornxokay i googled "why doesn't my code work" and i think the issue might be that i have something called an "X-Y problem"? is there an easy solution for that?
edgar-rftuse Z only
nitrixAsk about the X instead of the Y.
nitrixAka, don't ask the derived question, ask the original.
rindolfheh; ornx++
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2023-02-08

Websites down for maintenance

Display

irrelephpantDifferent question: How can many websites take their entire operation down while doing backups? What could be causing the need for that? For example, right now, "Briefly unavailable for scheduled maintenance. Check back in a minute." at https://acceptableads.com/standard/ I don't get this. Why can't the backup be made while the site is being served?
RelayChatit can be
rindolfirrelephpant: snapshotting//.? idk
irrelephpantSurely PostgreSQL is not unique in that it can back up data while not affecting the normal operations at all?
irrelephpantSnapshotting?
RelayChatirrelephpant you could probably set up a manual copy/paste with any database.
rindolfirrelephpant: yes, freezing the normally dynamic state of a UGC site's database
mercenaryirrelephpant: 'scheduled maintenance' is not necessarily equal to 'backup'
irrelephpantRelayChat: "you could probably set up a manual copy/paste with any database." <-- ?
irrelephpantrindolf: "UGC"?
irrelephpantmercenary: What else could it refer to?
RelayChatcopy the database.db file and paste it elsewhere. that's a backup too.
mercenaryirrelephpant: OS/software upgrades. database layout changes that need the code to be in sync. server moves. and many other things
rindolfirrelephpant: user-generated-content, jeeze
RelayChatmaybe they're running windows server and it's a patch tuesday
irrelephpantrindolf: Never heard that before.
irrelephpantmercenary: Hmm... I suppose.
rindolfirrelephpant: from weblog comments to youtube uploads
RelayChathttps://acceptableads.com/standard/
RelayChatit's back up
RelayChata new windows update was released a few hours ago so that may have been it
RelayChatirrelephpant
irrelephpantWindows update? I thought that site was about web ads?
RelayChatthe server os could be windows
RelayChatMarch 14th = Patch Tuesday
rindolfspeculation isn’t fruitful
rindolfand actions and outcomes are more important than motives
pyzozordrindolf: depends
pyzozordcannot set a general rule for that kind of thing
rindolfpyzozord: i didn’t mean it as gospel :]
pyzozordrindolf: right, sorry
rindolfpyzozord: no worries. \o/
Channel##programming
NetworkFreenode
Published2023-03-15