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Freenode ##programming Conversations - (Fortunes Cookies) Shlomi Fish’s Collection
About
The Freenode IRC Network’s ##programming channel is a channel for discussing programming. These are some conversations and related excerpts from it in XML-Grammar-Fortune format.
Table of Contents
- The Fortunes Themselves
- .om
- With what to write code?
- Your Emacs is so fat
- Why XSLT is so evil?
- Introducing dazjorz to Zuu
- Reindeers, Tomatoes and Nicks
- SNAFU Cake
- What is Qantor?
- Turing Hard
- The Ultimate ##programming Showdown
- ispy Emulating a Clueless Newbie
- What kind of animal is Zuu?
- Meaning of the Zuu species
- ##programming about Real Programmers
- Semicolons
- Calculator
- The Universal Die
- I Wanna Be a Hacker
- /dev/null is webscale.
- iSomething
- Bad Names for Programs
- Selling Open Source Source Code
- gcc warning flags
- Ultra Compression
- Ruby Tuesday
- Mac Server
- Maths Education and Languages
- “I need an Open Source Something…”
The Fortunes Themselves
.om
| rindolf | ljuwaidah: so aren't there more people who use FOSS in Oman? |
| ljuwaidah | there are, but they're only a few |
| rindolf | ljuwaidah: ah. |
| rindolf | Oman has .om as its TLD. |
| rindolf | .om .nom .nom |
| rindolf | p.om p.om |
| rindolf | kabo.om |
| rindolf | DJB got the cr.yp.to domain. |
| rindolf | And there's also ali.as which is Adam Kennedy's. |
| ljuwaidah | looool |
| ljuwaidah | rand.om :P |
| ljuwaidah | do.om :P |
| ljuwaidah | ro.om |
| ljuwaidah | m.om |
| Black_Phoenix | your.m.om |
| ljuwaidah | hahahaha |
| ljuwaidah | is that supposed to be a milf site? :P |
| rindolf | yahoo.c.om |
| ljuwaidah | bro.om |
| rindolf | http://yourmom.com/ |
| rindolf | Though it's down now. |
| ljuwaidah | don't keep your hopes up on .om domains |
| ljuwaidah | our ISP is a greedy money sucker |
| rindolf | "I'd rather be a .com than a .om" |
| ljuwaidah | rindolf: me too |
| rindolf | ljuwaidah: this was a joke. |
| rindolf | I have a few .org domains. |
| rindolf | From GoDaddy |
| ljuwaidah | unless you need it for a domain trick |
| * Black_Phoenix | <--- .com bastard here |
| ljuwaidah | rindolf: where's the joke? |
| rindolf | ljuwaidah: joke? |
| rindolf | ljuwaidah: it rhymes. |
| rindolf | dot-com, dot-om - get it? get it? get it? |
| rindolf | ;-) |
| ljuwaidah | no :( |
| rindolf | ljuwaidah: om rhymes with com. |
| ljuwaidah | so? |
| rindolf | ljuwaidah: "I'd rather be a dot-com than a dot-om" |
| rindolf | ljuwaidah: it's just a silly rhyme. |
| Black_Phoenix | I'd rather a website |
| rindolf | Black_Phoenix: I accidentally a web-site. |
| ljuwaidah | I still don't get the joke |
| Black_Phoenix | rindolf, I'd still rather a blog |
| rindolf | Black_Phoenix: rather what a blog? |
| Black_Phoenix | Website a blog |
| rindolf | ljuwaidah: never mind. |
| ljuwaidah | sorry, I don't know why I'm slow today |
| rindolf | Black_Phoenix: do you mean that you would rather *be* a web-site? |
| Black_Phoenix | I'd rather website a blog |
| Black_Phoenix | broken grammar time :D |
| ljuwaidah | Black_Phoenix: when did website become a verb? |
| Black_Phoenix | it didn't |
| Black_Phoenix | I'm using it as a verb to produce nonsense |
| ljuwaidah | I sense light! |
| ljuwaidah | {I see} |
| rindolf | ljuwaidah: http://www.google.com.om/ |
| ljuwaidah | rindolf: I know |
| rindolf | If Google can do it - so can you. |
| ljuwaidah | I don't use it |
| ljuwaidah | 'cause some services don't work on it |
| rindolf | ljuwaidah: ah. |
| rindolf | ljuwaidah: in any case, seems like one can register a .com.om domain. |
| Channel | ##programming |
| Network | Freenode |
| Tagline | The .om domain |
With what to write code?
| Quetzalcoatl_ | How do I write a computer vision program in C on a microcontroller? |
| dyf | Quetzalcoatl_: with a text editor? |
| Quetzalcoatl_ | Hmm.. Never thought of that. But which editor? Is Notepad good enough? |
| mauke | no, you need at least Wordpad |
| rindolf | mauke: I suggest MS Word or at least OpenOffice.org |
| rindolf | mauke: but in order to really be able to write well, you need a desktop publishing program like Scribus or Adobe FrameMaker. |
| * rindolf | wonders which compiler will accept PDFs as input. |
| waiting | rindolf: /usr/bin/pdftotext |
| rindolf | waiting: and pray. |
| rindolf | There's an estoric programming language called Piet (I think) that accepts images as input. |
| Channel | ##programming |
| Network | Freenode |
| Tagline | How to write stylistic code |
Your Emacs is so fat
| rindolf | Deiu: which editor are you using? |
| Deiu | Ugh, let me catch up with the convo first |
| Deiu | And yeah, I use vim too |
| rindolf | Deiu: ah good. If you were using Eight Megabytes And Continuously Swapping , I would have to swap you with it! |
| rindolf | I have a column of vim tips on one of my blogs. |
| rindolf | I also like Escape-Meta-Alt-Control-Shift. |
| rindolf | There are a lot of jokes about Emacs. |
| Zuu | There are lots of jokes about your mom too ;) |
| rindolf | Zuu: eMom |
| Zuu | eh? |
| rindolf | e-Macs -> eMum |
| rindolf | "Your Mom is so fat, only Emacs takes more memory than her." |
| Zuu | nope, doesnt work |
| rindolf | Zuu: :-( |
| Zuu | Your emacs is so fat that your mom could fit in it |
| rindolf | Heh. |
| Zuu | ahhh, yes, much better |
| rindolf | Zuu++ |
| Zuu | :P |
| →dbm | has joined ##programming |
| * rindolf | stores some key/value pairs in dbm |
| * Zuu | stores some moms in dbm |
| dbm | lol |
| rindolf | Zuu: you overflowed him. |
| Zuu | :> |
| dbm | ;) |
| rindolf | Or her, don't know. |
| rindolf | them. |
| dbm | 'him' |
| rindolf | OK. |
| rindolf | dbm: I don't recall your nick. |
| dbm | dbm= dont bother me |
| rindolf | don't be mean. |
| dbm | ;) |
| Zuu | or: do bother me |
| Channel | ##programming |
| Network | Freenode |
| Tagline | Your Emacs is so fat |
Why XSLT is so evil?
| →xmler | has joined ##programming |
| xmler | Hi |
| xmler | How can I do <a href="$variable">blah</a> in XSLT? |
| rindolf | xmler: you can use <xsl:attribute> |
| rindolf | xmler: or use ${...} |
| rindolf | xmler: have you read the Zvon XSLT tutorial? |
| xmler | rindolf: I've read various resources; perhaps it's the fault of XML::XSLT on CPAN |
| rindolf | xmler: use XML::LibXSLT instead. |
| rindolf | It's faster and better. |
| Zuu | <insert mean statement about XSLT> |
| Zuu | :) |
| rindolf | "XSLT is the work of Satan" |
| rindolf | "It's the worst thing since non-sliced bread." |
| Zuu | Hahaha :D |
| rindolf | "Mothers used to tell their children about XSLT to scare them." |
| xmler | Haha |
| Zuu | That last one is good |
| xmler | XSLT seems pretty cool |
| Zuu | xmler, no no, that's not mean |
| Zuu | you're doing it wrong |
| Zuu | :P |
| xmler | XSLT is too cool to be mean to :p |
| Zuu | Hehe |
| rindolf | "XSLT is the number one cause of programmers' suicides since Visual Basic 1.0" |
| tommy_the-dragon | lol |
| Zuu | :> |
| Zuu | I could believe in that |
| rindolf | "The X in XSLT stands for eXtermination." |
| rindolf | "XSLT makes the baby jesus cry." |
| rindolf | "The only things worse than XSLT are Excel and sugarless tea." |
| tommy_the-dragon | rofl |
| * Zuu | kinda likes Excel |
| rindolf | Zuu: yes, it was a joke. |
| Zuu | Noooh! |
| Zuu | they are all true! |
| rindolf | Now I'm out of ideas. |
| Zuu | i havent even had a single idea yet.. |
| rindolf | "XSLT is what Chuck Norris has nightmares of." |
| Zuu | Whoah! |
| Zuu | wait.. that would somehow make XSLT cooler than Chuck Norris... |
| Zuu | Chuck Norris dont have mightmares |
| rindolf | "Confucius e says: 'XSLT made me realise humanity was hopeless." |
| Zuu | "Even APL wont make friends with XSLT" |
| Zuu | yay, i maded one! |
| rindolf | "God considered using XSLT as the tenth plague of Egypt, but thought it was too evil." |
| rindolf | Zuu: :-) |
| Zuu | Haha :D |
| Zuu | that plauge one is awesome |
| rindolf | "In Soviet Russia, XSLT codes you. Badly!" |
| rindolf | "Satan condemned Hitler for a million years of writing XSLT" |
| rindolf | OK, back to work. |
| rindolf | C - not XSLt. |
| Zuu | :) |
| rindolf | "The KGB used to torture their victims by having them look at scrolling XSLT code" |
| xmler | rindolf: lol, love the KGB + XSLT one |
| xmler | rindolf: by the way, what's with the XSLT hate by the way, is it some kind of meme? :p |
| * Zuu | gives xmler an XSLT interpreter written in XSLT |
| Jck_true | I wanna make ASM code from XSLT |
| rindolf | "My name is Inigo Montoya. You forced my father to write XSLT. Prepare to die! And be thankful I don't force you to write XSLT." |
| xmler | Ah for gawd's sake. Can't install XML::LibXML, it says I don't have libxml2 (I do) |
| rindolf | xmler: do you have the -devel package? |
| rindolf | xmler: what is your distro? |
| rindolf | OS distro I mean. |
| xmler | rindolf: Debian 4.0 |
| xmler | Ooh, perhaps I don't actually |
| rindolf | xmler: ok, then apt-get install libxml-libxslt-perl |
| * Zuu | have to go o/ |
| rindolf | xmler: maybe we should discuss it on #perl? |
| rindolf | Zuu: bye |
| rindolf | Zuu: and beware of stray XSLT code. |
| Zuu | I will :P |
| rindolf | Zuu: OK. |
| xmler | rindolf: sure, uno memento :) |
| Channel | ##programming |
| Network | Freenode |
| Tagline | Chuck Norris is out! XSLT is in! |
Introducing dazjorz to Zuu
| dazjorz | rindolf! |
| dazjorz | areth thou here? |
| rindolf | Hi dazjorz |
| dazjorz | :) |
| rindolf | dazjorz: yes, I are here. |
| dazjorz | isn't it kind of weird to have a programming channel when there are language specific channels around? |
| Zuu | Muhah! |
| rindolf | dazjorz: this is about programming in general. |
| rindolf | At least theoretically. |
| rindolf | And VB.NET questions. |
| joeyadams | Well, ##programming is a good place to ask C questions and actually get helpful answers :) |
| dazjorz | rindolf: did you intentionally make it look like vb.net is not programming? |
| rindolf | dazjorz: meet Zuu - he's into Windows and D and stuff. |
| dazjorz | ! |
| rindolf | dazjorz: no. |
| rindolf | dazjorz: VB.NET is programming. |
| dazjorz | hey Zuu, I'm dazjorz, I'm into linux and c and stuff. |
| rindolf | But it has its own channel. |
| Zuu | :> |
| dazjorz | rindolf: I've been thinking about changing nicks |
| rindolf | dazjorz: ah. so did I. |
| * Zuu | is into everything sane, except the boring stuff |
| rindolf | dazjorz: to what? |
| dazjorz | rindolf: my current one is waaaay too lame, but "sjors" is probably too generic |
| rindolf | dazjorz: I like dazjorz |
| dazjorz | rindolf: I don't, because when people see my name is sjors, da zjorz is just too lame to bear |
| dazjorz | rindolf: I was thinking about sjors, or some three-letter abbreviation of my name, sjg or so |
| Zuu | how about.... 'carrot' ? |
| dazjorz | I think I do prefer dazjorz over carrot |
| Zuu | no worries, i promise not to stuff you up rindolf's tomato nose |
| Zuu | hum :< |
| dazjorz | Zuu: when I first read your nick on Shlomi's site five minutes ago, I asked him whether you were a mix between Zorix and Buu |
| dazjorz | do you know the two? |
| rindolf | Zoffix and buu. |
| Zuu | nope |
| dazjorz | uh zoffix yeah |
| dazjorz | Zuu: okay, well, you don't know them, but believe me, I'm glad you're not a mix of the two, that would be horrible :P |
| Zuu | im a mix of much worse personalities im sure |
| Zuu | most of them just happen to cancel each other out |
| Channel | ##programming |
| Network | Freenode |
| Tagline | Introudcing dazjorz to Zuu |
Reindeers, Tomatoes and Nicks
| rindolf | dazjorz: I considered switching my default nick to "shlomif", because that's how most people know me. |
| dazjorz | rindolf: yeah, it's your alternative nick now right? |
| rindolf | dazjorz: but then XChat2 reverted to the old nick and I was too lazy. |
| unreal | You seem to have many, well, stupid friends, rindolf :P |
| rindolf | dazjorz: yes, I have it registered. |
| rindolf | unreal: stupid? |
| Zuu | rindolf, noo! what to do about the tomato then? fish dont have big tomato noses! |
| rindolf | Zuu: fish? |
| rindolf | Zuu: I'll give you a tomoato. |
| Zuu | good question |
| rindolf | I'll give you the tomato back. |
| Zuu | where do i get fish from |
| Zuu | no no, keep it :D |
| rindolf | Zuu: my last name is Fish. |
| * tommy_the-dragon | slaps zuu with a fish |
| tommy_the-dragon | there ya go |
| dazjorz | rindolf: I just registered 'sjors' |
| * rindolf | gives a fish to Zuu |
| dazjorz | rindolf: as a nick. |
| Zuu | rindolf, thats just absurd, a reindeer with 'fish' as surname... |
| Zuu | your parents must have hated you |
| rindolf | Open source: "everyone contributes a fish, and in exchange everyone gets their own ocean." |
| rindolf | dazjorz: ah, cool. |
| Zuu | tommy_the-dragon, does dragons eat other animals, like fish? |
| unreal | Ocean == Big Momma's Bath? |
| rindolf | Zuu: I'm not a reindeer - I just play one on T.V. |
| tommy_the-dragon | not fish... |
| tommy_the-dragon | just reindeers |
| Zuu | tommy_the-dragon, what about fake TV reindeers ? |
| Zuu | Nice :D |
| rindolf | unreal: no, the whole enchilada. |
| rindolf | tommy_the-dragon: LOL. |
| tommy_the-dragon | and enchiladas |
| dazjorz | rindolf: I know someone whose nick is Stonehead, he made his three-letter acronym stn, but usually it's letters from the first name |
| dazjorz | uh |
| dazjorz | the full name |
| dazjorz | yours could be shf for example, and everybody would know "hey, that's shlomi" |
| dazjorz | but I'm at most sg, so I need to borrow another letter somewhere, or make it daz or just sjors |
| * dazjorz | thinks |
| tommy_the-dragon | my cat eats flies... |
| rindolf | dazjorz: I hate these three letter acronyms. |
| Zuu | shlomi really sounds like some dish made of reindeer |
| tommy_the-dragon | but hes lucky because i dont eat cats |
| rindolf | Zuu: heh. |
| unreal | heh |
| rindolf | tommy_the-dragon: I didn't know dragons had cats. |
| dazjorz | what's the name of the red-nosed reindeer again? |
| Zuu | it sounds edible at least |
| dazjorz | oh rudolf :) |
| rindolf | dazjorz: Randolph. |
| dazjorz | oh |
| unreal | I used to have a friend whos nick was "crap" |
| rindolf | unreal: wow. |
| dazjorz | <someguy> crap, someone stole my bicycle |
| dazjorz | <crap> ok? |
| rindolf | dazjorz: heh. |
| dazjorz | rindolf: why don't you like the three-letter acronyms? |
| rindolf | dazjorz: often too confusing. |
| rindolf | dazjorz: and two easy to mistype. |
| rindolf | dazjorz: and not too memorable. |
| unreal | LIS. |
| dazjorz | three easy to mistype, I think |
| rindolf | And often hard to pronounce. |
| dazjorz | maybe I'll just go with sjors |
| rindolf | too easy. Freudian. |
| rindolf | dazjorz: yes, I think that's a good idea. |
| unreal | (Lies, I say!) |
| dazjorz | hehe, rindolf++ # freudian |
| Zuu | or you could pick something girly and hope people will treat you nicer :) |
| rindolf | dazjorz: have you played with the farnsworth bot yet? |
| rindolf | Zuu: RinGirl |
| rindolf | Though nicks with "Girl " in them tend to draw too much attention. |
| Zuu | nah, it cant contain 'girl' that just seems fake |
| dazjorz | rindolf: I have |
| dazjorz | rindolf: remind me to fix knotify, khtml, and quassel :( |
| rindolf | dazjorz: nice. |
| rindolf | dazjorz: using MemoServ? |
| dazjorz | rindolf: the bugs annoy me, a lot, but I never get around to actually trying to fix them |
| rindolf | Zuu: maybe I should call myself "shlomi". Americans will think I'm a girl. |
| Zuu | yeah, it kinda have a girlish sound to it |
| dazjorz | rindolf: call yourself shloma, dutch people will think you're over sixty and female |
| rindolf | dazjorz: heh. |
| dazjorz | let me rephase that |
| dazjorz | dutch people will think you're female... and over sixty |
| dazjorz | (oma = grandma) |
| rindolf | dazjorz: ah. |
| unreal | kloot. |
| rindolf | In Hebrew nouns that end with "ah" tend to be feminine. |
| dazjorz | shlomah? |
| rindolf | Seriously now, if I change my nick it will be to shlomif. |
| dazjorz | let's change our nicks at the same time |
| rindolf | Well, in Shlomi's case it would be Shlomith. |
| dazjorz | I will be sjors, you will be shlomif |
| rindolf | dazjorz: OK. |
| * rindolf | is now known as shlomif |
| dazjorz | shit, now I have to |
| Zuu | what does shlimif even mean ? |
| * dazjorz | is now known as sjors |
| sjors | Zuu: shlomi = his first name, f = the first letter of his last name |
| shlomif | sjors: hi. |
| shlomif | Zuu: shlomi fish. |
| sjors | hi shlomif |
| shlomif | Hi sjors |
| tommy_the-dragon | where does rindolf come into it? |
| shlomif | sjors: my nick is longer than yours. |
| Zuu | oh lol, and i just said his name sound girly :P |
| * Zuu | pat pats shlomif ^^ |
| shlomif | tommy_the-dragon: Rindolf was a dwarven warrior I played in AD&D. |
| tommy_the-dragon | ahh ok |
| * shlomif | gives Zuu his tomato back. |
| Zuu | :< |
| shlomif | Since I'm no longer a reindeer. |
| sjors | shlomif: that's just to compensate against something you have that's way shorter than mine |
| shlomif | sjors: LOL. |
| shlomif | sjors++ |
| Zuu | Erhmm.. shlomif! how come there's this big hole in it? |
| tommy_the-dragon | sorry... |
| tommy_the-dragon | my bad |
| Zuu | Hehe |
| * shlomif | doesn't like raw tomatoes. |
| shlomif | But I eat them with pasta, etc. |
| shlomif | Or as meat sauce. |
| Zuu | or in sandwiches |
| shlomif | sjors: anyway, welcome to ##programming |
| Zuu | or on reindeer nose |
| shlomif | sjors: I'll probably revert to "rindolf" after next disconnect. |
| shlomif | Zuu: after you cook the entire reindeer. |
| * shlomif | is a reindeer cannibal. |
| shlomif | Well, rindolf is. |
| Zuu | yes, but he ran away |
| shlomif | I also like dried and olive oiled tomatoes. |
| sjors | shlomif: I just changed my clients' settings to reconnect as sjors, too |
| shlomif | Well, I think I'll go to sleep. |
| shlomif | sjors: ah. |
| sjors | shlomif: it'll probably take a while to "adapt" to sjors instead of dazjorz |
| shlomif | sjors: well, enjoy your new nick. |
| sjors | and I still have dazjorz.com, and not sjors.anything |
| * Zuu | tugs shlomif in |
| sjors | thanks ;) |
| shlomif | Zuu: thanks. |
| * Zuu | quicly squeeses a fresh tomato onto shlomif's nose |
| sjors | shlomif: sjors.biz and sjors.mobi at most |
| * shlomif | doesn't have rindolf.{com,org,net} etc. |
| shlomif | sjors: maybe sjors.in |
| shlomif | I got a shlom.in |
| sjors | sjors.indahou.se |
| shlomif | sjors: heh. |
| sjors | sjors.ac, sjors.ag, sjors.am, sjors.at |
| sjors | hehe sjors.me |
| sjors | sjors.pl, too bad i don't really do perl anymore |
| shlomif | sjors: there's also .sh |
| sjors | sjors.sh, too bad I don't really do shell script a lot |
| shlomif | Or .im |
| sjors | sjors.tv, too bad I don't really watch.. |
| tommy_the-dragon | do you own a mobile? |
| shlomif | .tv are pretty costly. |
| sjors | meh I don't like sjors. anyway, so I'll just keep dazjorz for everything |
| tommy_the-dragon | yeah whats with that (the price of .tv)? |
| shlomif | tommy_the-dragon: it's the foundation of the economy of Tuvaly. |
| Channel | ##programming |
| Network | Freenode |
| Tagline | Reindeers, Tomatoes and Normalising Nicks |
SNAFU Cake
| * rindolf | tries to think what can cause the KDE 4 SNAFU on his user. |
| rindolf | And hopefully to avoid bissecting the KDE 4 config tree. |
| Zuu | snafu... that wounds like a delicious cake :D |
| Zuu | *sounds |
| rindolf | Zuu: Situation Normal - All F****ed up. |
| Zuu | :/ |
| * Zuu | gives the snafu cake to Dmage :D |
| Zuu | Dmage, just eat the cake already |
| Dmage | Zuu, are you hate my english? ;) |
| Zuu | i hate your non-english |
| Black_Phoenix | I english your hate |
| Dmage | xD |
| Zuu | Dmage, but i dont hate you! :D |
| Black_Phoenix | and now I can do that |
| Dmage | Zuu, learn russian then! :) |
| Zuu | Hehe |
| Zuu | Dmage, i think you'd hate my russion far more than i would ever hate your english |
| rindolf | Spasiva. |
| Dmage | xD |
| Dmage | learn 'Eto huinya!' |
| * Zuu | steals the snafu cake back from Dmage and gives it to rindolf instead |
| Dmage | and apply everywhere |
| * rindolf | eats the SNAFU cake |
| Zuu | :D |
| * rindolf | eats Zuu's Danish too. |
| Zuu | Noooh! |
| * rindolf | loves Zuu's Danish. |
| rindolf | Yum yum. |
| Zuu | tis mine! |
| Zuu | My daaaanish :'( |
| rindolf | My precioussssssssss! |
| Zuu | tis gone :< |
| Channel | ##programming |
| Network | Freenode |
| Tagline | SNAFU Cake |
What is Qantor?
| rindolf | What should I do now? |
| rindolf | I'll work on Text-Qantor. |
| rindolf | It's so great not to have a job. |
| Zuu | yeah, if someone else pays for the food it sure is :D |
| Zuu | also, i dont really understand much of what you just told me :P |
| * Zuu | puts a stick into the Text-Qantor |
| rindolf | Zuu: Qantor == Qantor ain't no TeX/Troff oh really. |
| rindolf | It's a typesetting system I'm working on. |
| * Zuu | hates the name |
| Zuu | it makes me kinda mad actually :/ |
| rindolf | Zuu: :-) |
| rindolf | Zuu: maybe it will grow on you. |
| rindolf | Zuu: some people I know named a browser suckass. |
| Zuu | :( |
| rindolf | I refused to work on it. |
| Zuu | see that's a name! |
| rindolf | Zuu: heh. |
| Zuu | i didnt mean that btw :) |
| Zuu | suckass is kinda... unkind |
| rindolf | OK, now I should write an http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/facts/XSLT/ transformation. |
| rindolf | I'll start from something I already have. |
| Zuu | But the "X ain't no <something related>" is just a lame naming convention imho |
| Zuu | yeah, work on some XSLT facts :D |
| rindolf | Zuu: just call it Qantor then. |
| rindolf | Without the mnemonics. |
| Zuu | but anyone interrested will learn that it's an abbreviation |
| Zuu | just by the fact that it's recursive makes me want to kill myself a little bit more :P |
| rindolf | Zuu: do me a break and kill yourself. |
| Zuu | :> |
| rindolf | Less Zuus - more grass for evil reindeers like me to feed on. |
| Channel | ##programming |
| Network | Freenode |
| Tagline | What is Qantor? |
Turing Hard
| rindolf | Pythack now was able to get the fc-solve test suite up and running. |
| Zuu | eh?! |
| * Zuu | solves rindolf |
| rindolf | Zuu: http://fc-solve.berlios.de/ |
| rindolf | Zuu: I am not solvable. |
| rindolf | I am Turing hard. |
| Zuu | :S |
| * Zuu | never heard of anything called 'turing hard' |
| joeyadams | lol. Zuu's probabilistic, so maybe he can solve you. |
| Zuu | but i guess i have now |
| joeyadams | Formal definition of Turing hard: blah blah blah hard blah blah Turing blah. |
| Zuu | Hahahaha :D |
| joeyadams | Wikipedia: Given a set X in P(N), a set A in N is called Turing hard for X if X <=_T A for all X in X. If additionally A is in X, then A is called Turing complete for X. |
| joeyadams | Does that clarify? |
| joeyadams | (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_reduction for the actual math symbols) |
| * joeyadams | assumes you get the point |
| Zuu | yeah, i think i'll have to put significant time into that, for me to comprehend it :) |
| Zuu | but maybe i will, some day :P |
| joeyadams | My point is that people like to use mumbo jumbo to describe more concise mumbo jumbo. |
| joeyadams | E.g. A problem is NP-hard if it is at least as hard as all the problems in NP. |
| Zuu | i undersstand enough of it, to be fairly confident that rindolf being turing hard, will not say much about his ability to be solved |
| joeyadams | I'm guessing Turing-hard means you can't solve a problem with a Turing machine (e.g. the halting problem) |
| joeyadams | (substitute Turing machine with "your computer" :) ) |
| Zuu | no, turing hard has something to do with expressiveness |
| joeyadams | okay, Zuu > joeyadams, so I can't help you :) |
| * Zuu | tickles joeyadams ^^ |
| joeyadams | A delicious apple is any fruit ∈ apple that is at least as tasty as any other fruit ∈ apple. |
| joeyadams | In other words, apples are in the set of recursively nommable fruits. |
| rindolf | joeyadams: what's up? |
| joeyadams | I'm babbling. |
| rindolf | joeyadams: Apple is one of my least favourite fruits. |
| * Zuu | watches a number of apples that recursively NOM's eathother |
| rindolf | It tends to be too commonplace. |
| rindolf | Or simpleton. |
| joeyadams | whoops, my logic is incorrect |
| joeyadams | Only delicious apples are ∈ the nommable fruits. |
| joeyadams | (recursively is just a word you throw in to sound smart) |
| * Zuu | NOMs joeyadams :> |
| rindolf | joeyadams: a friend of one of my sisters said that Apple is his favourite fruit. |
| rindolf | Ta-zuu! |
| * joeyadams | has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection nommed by peer)) |
| Zuu | yeah, unfortunately a lot of people throw with a lot of words to sound smart :/ |
| Zuu | my favourite fruit is a recursive banana! |
| joeyadams | although it certainly helps to use complex terminology to solve complex problems. As Aristophanes said, "High thoughts must have high language." |
| Zuu | .. along with immutable polymorphic pears |
| joeyadams | Zuu> I guess you have to peel it indefinitely? |
| joeyadams | lol |
| Zuu | Hahah, yeah :P |
| joeyadams | I tend to eat bananas in deterministic polynomial time. |
| Zuu | i eat them in linear time, but uses exponential space |
| joeyadams | lol |
| rindolf | Heh. |
| joeyadams | eww |
| Channel | ##programming |
| Network | Freenode |
| Tagline | Turing Hard |
The Ultimate ##programming Showdown
| →ecere | has joined ##programming |
| ljuwaidah | yo ecere!! |
| Zuu | yay, life :) |
| * Zuu | tickles ljuwaidah |
| * ljuwaidah | punches zuu in the face |
| * Zuu | starts crying :'( |
| rindolf | Fight! |
| rindolf | Fight! Fight! |
| * Zuu | runs home to mommy |
| rindolf | Let's get ready to rumble!!! |
| * ljuwaidah | punches rindolf in the face |
| ljuwaidah | for encouraging the fight, that is |
| Zuu | hehe |
| * rindolf | uses his Evil Antlers to summon a squadron of Chuck Norrises. |
| Zuu | oh my! |
| * rindolf | unleashes the Chuck Norrises upon ljuwaidah |
| * ljuwaidah | uses his anti-chuck-norrise spell |
| Zuu | those anterls must be the most evil thing in the entire universe |
| Zuu | *antlers |
| rindolf | ljuwaidah: your spell only works on one chuck norris at a day. |
| rindolf | And I have 119 more. |
| rindolf | Finish him! |
| Zuu | i wonder what will happen if one Chuck Norris accidently punches another |
| ljuwaidah | rindolf: then lemme use my duplication spell to make more of myself so THEY can use the spell |
| rindolf | ljuwaidah: heh. |
| rindolf | ljuwaidah++ |
| ljuwaidah | thanks :D |
| rindolf | ljuwaidah: two can play this game. |
| * rindolf | runs his recursive copying spell making lots of Evil rindolf reindeers exponentially. |
| rindolf | Like Bacteria. |
| ljuwaidah | darn! i didn't see that coming |
| ljuwaidah | but you also forgot that if _I_ can duplicate myself then so can my duplicates B-) |
| Channel | ##programming |
| Network | Freenode |
| Tagline | The Ultimate ##programming Showdown |
ispy Emulating a Clueless Newbie
| →ispy_ | has joined ##programming |
| ispy_ | hi gang. |
| ispy_ | I'm a n00b programmer and think I should learn A and B before C, right? |
| std_orb | ispy_: General understanding should come before that. |
| ispy_ | std_orb: I have no idea what I'm doing... |
| std_orb | ispy_: I can see that |
| * ispy_ | kicks the dirt... |
| tommy_the-dragon | ive been meaning to get into it |
| ispy_ | Is C like JavaScript? |
| ispy_ | Same thing right? |
| tommy_the-dragon | ispy_: lol |
| rindolf | ispy_: Perl is more like C than JS is. |
| ispy_ | rindolf: Never heard of Perl... I should google that. |
| rindolf | ispy_: use Bing search instead. |
| rindolf | Or Altavista. |
| Terminus | rindolf: i see. |
| ispy_ | rindolf, std_orb, tommy_the-dragon ... thanks for the pointers :) |
| rindolf | ispy_: you should learn Intercal, it's the most expressive language possible. |
| ispy_ | rindolf: Sounds exciting! |
| Terminus | intercal... lol! |
| ispy_ | haha |
| ispy_ | ok ok ok... I can't continue this... I'm practically laughing my ass off at my desk. |
| rindolf | :-) |
| ispy_ | hehe |
| Channel | ##programming |
| Network | Freenode |
| Tagline | Emulating a Clueless Newbie |
What kind of animal is Zuu?
| Zuu | Hai all |
| rindolf | Zuu: hai hai. |
| rindolf | Zuu: what's up , kit? |
| rindolf | Zuu: or what are you , I forgot? |
| Zuu | Hai rindolf :D |
| rindolf | I am a reindeer. |
| rindolf | But also a Llama. |
| rindolf | And a cat. |
| Zuu | I'm a Zuu |
| rindolf | And a fish naturally. |
| rindolf | Zuu: ah , OK. |
| Zuu | :D |
| * rindolf | creates a Zoo of Zuus |
| Zuu | ^^ |
| rindolf | Are you the master Zuu? |
| rindolf | Like Q is the master of the Q's in Star Trek? |
| Zuu | i think im the only Zuu |
| rindolf | Oh, one of a kind. |
| Zuu | Which is kinda sad really :( |
| Zuu | Who am i supposed to mate with? |
| rindolf | Reminds me of http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Blue-Rabbit-Log/ideas.xhtml |
| rindolf | Though I need to add that part. |
| rindolf | Let me do it now. |
| Zuu | whatever webserver you use, it doesnt provide the right mimetype... At least IE 8 dont attempt to render the document |
| rindolf | Zuu: you cannot using IE 8 |
| rindolf | Zuu: you need Firefox. |
| rindolf | Zuu: it's application/xml+xhtml |
| rindolf | Or Opera. |
| Zuu | well, it indeed is the right mimetype... stupid IE |
| Zuu | well, my FF crashed, so i just use IE when that happens |
| rindolf | Zuu: ah. |
| rindolf | FF crashed? |
| rindolf | How strange. |
| rindolf | Maybe you have a bad plugin. |
| Zuu | It does that around 6 times a day |
| rindolf | Not an extension - a plugin. |
| rindolf | Ah, really. |
| rindolf | Something is wrong in the Zuuniverse. |
| rindolf | Or Zuumputer. |
| Zuu | nah, i suspect one of the tabs are just doing some strange stuff |
| Zuu | memory leaking javascript ro something like that |
| Zuu | it is kinda starting to annoy me |
| Zuu | but with 90 - 120 tabs, it would take quite a while to find out what tab it is |
| Zuu | you might consider starting your articles, or whatever this is, with an introduction telling what it's about |
| rindolf | Zuu: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Blue-Rabbit-Log/ideas.xhtml#the-angry-demon |
| rindolf | Zuu: it's not an article - these are random ideas for a screenplay. |
| rindolf | Zuu: but I'll write an intro. |
| Zuu | start the page with "Here are some of my random ideas for a screen play im writing:" |
| Zuu | at LEAST! |
| Zuu | you cant just jump right into something without giving _any_ indication ow what the reader can expect |
| Zuu | it simply doesnt make any sense as it is now |
| Zuu | you could just as well have posted a log of ljuwidah talking :P |
| rindolf | Zuu: thanks. |
| Zuu | :) |
| rindolf | Zuu: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Blue-Rabbit-Log/ideas.xhtml#intro |
| rindolf | Interactive Web! |
| Zuu | i think you have forgottoen to define the #intro anchor |
| rindolf | Zuu: reload. |
| rindolf | Zuu: it's there. |
| Zuu | hah, caches... :P |
| Zuu | :D |
| rindolf | Pesky things. |
| rindolf | Evil reindeers don't like caches. |
| rindolf | Neither do cats. |
| rindolf | I'm an evil reindeer but a good cat. |
| Zuu | Hehe |
| rindolf | Don't know how it works. |
| rindolf | I guess good and evil are relative. |
| rindolf | Or actually I wore a helmet of alignment change. |
| Channel | ##programming |
| Network | Freenode |
| Tagline | What kind of animal is a Zuu? |
Meaning of the Zuu species
| Zuu | Hi rindolf :) |
| rindolf | Hi Zuu |
| rindolf | Zuu: I've been thinking that maybe you can find some corresponding Zuus of the appropriate sex in a different dimension. |
| Zuu | hmmm... interresting! |
| rindolf | Zuu: are you a heterosexual Zuu or a homosexual one? |
| Zuu | Im not sure what sex I am. |
| rindolf | Zuu: ah. |
| Zuu | :P |
| rindolf | Zuu: you can look. |
| rindolf | Zuu: in the mirror or something. |
| rindolf | Zuu: don't you have obligatory genders in Danish/ |
| rindolf | ? |
| rindolf | Like in German, French, etc. |
| rindolf | Or Hebrew and Arabic. |
| Zuu | obligatory genders? |
| Zuu | you mean, the genders in linguistics? |
| * Zuu | never understood those |
| Zuu | but Danish have two i believe, and if i remember correctly there is female and 'none' |
| rindolf | Zuu: yes, genders in linguistics. |
| Zuu | i dont remember what which is which though :P |
| rindolf | Like in Hebrew "Haben Halakh lagan" - the boy went to the garden. "Habath Halkha lagan" - "The girl went to the garden" |
| c_sphere | That almost sounds like allah akbar |
| Zuu | rindolf, no we dont distinct between the genders of the subject in the danish language |
| Zuu | our nouns have genders though |
| c_sphere | zuu-nina? |
| Zuu | like 'house' is one gender and 'car' is another |
| rindolf | Zuu: of course the question is - what language do Zuus speak natively? |
| c_sphere | rindolf: Of course, Zuu speaks Zuu! |
| rindolf | Zuuish? |
| c_sphere | The Zulu population also does not speak Zuluish, just Zulu. |
| Zuu | so if you want to say 'the house' its 'huse_t_' and if you want to say 'the car' its 'bile_n_' |
| rindolf | c_sphere: Arnavoth (sounds like an Aztec god) is "Hares" (the Rabbit-like mammal) in Hebrew. |
| rindolf | Zuu: can you understand Swedish? |
| c_sphere | Aemeth |
| Zuu | rindolf, some :) |
| rindolf | Zuu: ah. |
| Zuu | swedish branched from danish afaik |
| Zuu | same with norwegian |
| Zuu | yes, Zuu's speak Zuuish nativley :P |
| * rindolf | is listening to Hans Zimmer - Jack Sparrow |
| rindolf | Zuu: ah. |
| Zuu | Zuuish have few words, all of which is based on words about cake from othre languages :P |
| Zuu | c_sphere, are you by any chance related to s_cube ? |
| rindolf | Zuu: ah, what do you use the Hebrew word "עוגיה" (= `ugiyah, cookie) for? |
| rindolf | "Chocolate chip pie crust marmalade marzipan cookie yum yum!" |
| Zuu | i use it for cookies baked from a hebrew recipe :P |
| rindolf | What does it mean in Zuuish? |
| Zuu | it's hard to really say something in Zuuish... al you can really do is say something equivalent to "COOKIES!!" |
| Zuu | or "YAY CAKE!" |
| Zuu | basically, you can only express excitement over different kinds of cakes :P |
| rindolf | Zuu: do Zuus eat anything except cakes or cookies? |
| Zuu | There was this one time... |
| Zuu | wait.. no. That was someone else. |
| Channel | ##programming |
| Network | Freenode |
| Tagline | What can a Zuu do? |
##programming about Real Programmers
| rindolf | Chekov: I disagere with what ESR says in TAOUP that you shouldn't apply factor optimisations. I think they can make a very large difference. |
| rindolf | Chekov: he seems to imply you should wait until computers are fast enough. |
| rindolf | Problem is people don't want to upgrade and if a competing program (maybe a fork ) is much faster, then some of them will switch. |
| rindolf | Programs being speedy is one thing that makes me happy. |
| rindolf | I love all the work the KDE people did in making KDE-4.6.0 fast. |
| vanguard | rindolf: awesome blog link! |
| rindolf | And I enjoy the fact that Pidgin is much faster than Kopete (and also less buggy). |
| rindolf | I've used Kopete for far too long. |
| osoleve | rindolf: switch to Irssi and Bitlbee! :D |
| rindolf | vanguard: yes. |
| rindolf | vanguard: though they failed on Google Wave. |
| rindolf | osoleve: nah, I like Pidgin. |
| rindolf | osoleve: it's fast enough for me. |
| rindolf | osoleve: and I also prefer XChat. |
| osoleve | but is it nerdy enough? |
| rindolf | osoleve: I'm not trying to be a Ubergeek. |
| rindolf | osoleve: real men use Xmonad! |
| vanguard | Hey, it is not Uber but Über ... :D |
| rindolf | real programmers use butterflies. |
| Chekov | real programmers are Tao |
| osoleve | real programmers flip bits by hand |
| Chekov | real programmers speak assembly |
| rindolf | Chuck Norris is a real programmer who implements the most optimised machines for solving a problem out of physical atoms. |
| vanguard | real programmers use a nice editor and a programming language and get done in less than O(N!) |
| Channel | ##programming |
| Network | Freenode |
| Tagline | Real Programmers |
Semicolons
| wes_ | tell me how can u print a message without using a semicolon in the printg statement |
| rindolf | wes_: in C? |
| rindolf | wes_: do you mean the printf(...) statement? |
| wes_ | yes |
| rindolf | wes_: you cannot without using macros I think. |
| rindolf | wes_: and don't use macros for that. |
| wes_ | i mean without using a semicolon at the printf statement but you have to use printf only |
| rindolf | wes_: why would you want to do that? |
| rindolf | wes_: what do you have against semicolons? |
| rindolf | Some of my best friends are semicolons. |
| lulzfish_4 | semicolons got me where I am today man |
| rindolf | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semicolon |
| rindolf | lulzfish_4: heh. |
| rindolf | "I owe it all to semicolons." |
| amigojapan | hey rindolf lulzfish_4 |
| rindolf | Hi amigojapan |
| rindolf | amigojapan: what's up? |
| * rindolf | gives a semicolon to amigojapan |
| * amigojapan | returns a whitespace to rindolf |
| rindolf | amigojapan: that's not fair trade. |
| rindolf | But I'll treasure the whitespace. |
| amigojapan | rindolf: a whitespace is just as valuable as a semicolon in python :) |
| rindolf | amigojapan: aren't semicolons optional in Py? |
| amigojapan | rindolf: I think they are |
| amigojapan | rindolf: actually, a whitespace can be as valuable as 2 curly braces :) |
| rindolf | amigojapan: heh. |
| rindolf | amigojapan: you need 4 spaces to distinguish stuff properly. |
| amigojapan | rindolf: one thing I never got about python is why they need the : after if and for statements.... |
| * PythonSnake | gives a colon to rindolf |
| PythonSnake | :) |
| amigojapan | rindolf: actually, I preffer using tabs to 4 spacess... |
| rindolf | PythonSnake: thanks for the colon. |
| PythonSnake | rindolf: lol |
| rindolf | PythonSnake: I'll give you a « and a » in exchange. |
| PythonSnake | lol |
| amigojapan | rindolf: the fact that you dont have a rule to how much white space you must use to indent in python, I think is a bad thing... |
| * PythonSnake | finds a interrobang |
| PythonSnake | :) |
| amigojapan | rindolf: if it is 4 spaces then fine, but make it a rule so it is consistent |
| GeDaMo | ‽ |
| PythonSnake | lol |
| PythonSnake | ‽ |
| PythonSnake | ∴ |
| PythonSnake | ‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡ |
| rindolf | ¿ |
| PythonSnake | ₳ ฿ ₵ ¢ ₡ ₢ ₠ $ ₫ ৳ ₯ € ƒ ₣ ₲ ₴ ₭ ℳ ₥ ₦ ₧ ₱ ₰ |
| PythonSnake | :) |
| amigojapan | rindolf: oh, now you are speaking spanish |
| rindolf | amigojapan: :-) |
| PythonSnake | all: :) |
| rindolf | ¡I am! |
| amigojapan | うるさいよ 文字化け |
| PythonSnake | Jag förvrängd bullriga |
| PythonSnake | איך גאַרבאַלד טומלדיק |
| PythonSnake | :) |
| amigojapan | ah, hebrew |
| amigojapan | hir something.... |
| PythonSnake | º, ª |
| amigojapan | man, I forgot how to read hebrew |
| rindolf | amigojapan: איך גאַרבאַלד טומלדיק seems like Yiddish. |
| amigojapan | rindolf: ah, ok.... can you change it into roman letters for me? |
| rindolf | amigojapan: Ich Garbald Tomldiq. |
| amigojapan | ich would be I |
| amigojapan | I think I only know curse words in yuddish :P |
| PythonSnake | ich bin masaru |
| lulzfish_4 | ich bin ein berlinner |
| * rindolf | is eating watermelon. |
| amigojapan | rindolf: save a piece for me :) |
| rindolf | amigojapan: I'll save a semicolon for you. |
| PiX3L | rindolf: For me too. :) |
| amigojapan | rindolf: a semicolon looks alot like twso pits of a watermellon |
| * amigojapan | steals PiX3L 's piece |
| Channel | ##programming |
| Network | Freenode |
| Tagline | Give Your Friend a Semicolon Today |
Calculator
| Endiannes | vinleod, Yes, he wants to find a solution which yields a point 10 units away, your solution yields a point, exactly 7.66044 units away |
| Endiannes | vinleod, Oh wait |
| Endiannes | vinleod, I'm an idiot, didnt factor out cos |
| Endiannes | vinleod, Yes you're right. |
| * Endiannes | kicks calculator |
| vinleod | hehe, I was in the process of writing a python script to prove it. |
| * speedrunnerG55 | picks up Endianness calculator |
| speedrunnerG55 | NEVER KICK YOUR CALCULATOR |
| CryWolf | Kicking your calculator is a sin |
| Endiannes | At least its not a cos. |
| vinleod | but you should at least get a tan |
| rindolf | Heh. |
| Channel | ##programming |
| Network | Freenode |
| Tagline | Calculator |
The Universal Die
| monsterwizard | Ok so I know javascript, php, perl in some detail. However, I want to become good at one. I was thinking Perl? |
| rindolf | monsterwizard: roll a die. |
| monsterwizard | rindolf the die showed a 7 :S |
| rindolf | monsterwizard: heh. |
| hmm | lol |
| rindolf | monsterwizard: strange die. |
| hmm | throw away the die |
| * rindolf | throws the die at hmm |
| * hmm | catches |
| rindolf | die, die, die! |
| * hmm | wants to live |
| rindolf | hmm: but the die wants to die. |
| rindolf | Take it out of its misery. |
| hmm | who knows, even the die isn't ready to die |
| rindolf | hmm: dice should be diced. |
| rindolf | dice on ice. |
| hmm | yeah, go dice the dice |
| Channel | ##programming |
| Network | Freenode |
| Tagline | The Universal Die |
I Wanna Be a Hacker
| * hackerhackingcan | (~hackingca@117.202.19.189) has joined ##programming |
| hackerhackingcan | Hi friends |
| hackerhackingcan | I am also new to hacking |
| rindolf | hackerhackingcan: hi. |
| rindolf | hackerhackingcan: I hope you mean software development - not computer intrusion. |
| hackerhackingcan | what means intrusion? |
| rindolf | hackerhackingcan: it means breaking into other people's systems. |
| hackerhackingcan | I want to hack the internet websites like google and facebook |
| rindolf | hackerhackingcan: hack? |
| hackerhackingcan | can you help please? |
| rindolf | hackerhackingcan: hack into? |
| hackerhackingcan | yes I am new but I will try and learn |
| hackerhackingcan | but can you help me rindolf? |
| rindolf | hackerhackingcan: we won't help you break into systems. |
| pkkm | wut? hack into google? |
| rindolf | hackerhackingcan: with what? |
| hackerhackingcan | hack into facebook google and internet |
| rindolf | hackerhackingcan: we build systems - not break them. |
| hackerhackingcan | please? |
| rindolf | hackerhackingcan: http://catb.org/~esr/writings/unix-koans/script-kiddie.html |
| rindolf | hackerhackingcan: if you want to learn how to program, we can help you. |
| rindolf | hackerhackingcan: but trying to break into computer systems will only get you in trouble. |
| hackerhackingcan | I can do programming in html |
| rindolf | hackerhackingcan: HTML is not a programming language. |
| hackerhackingcan | is that enough for hacking? |
| vinleod | hackerhackingcan: There's no such things as programming in HTML. |
| hackerhackingcan | I can also do hacks in cmd |
| vinleod | Ah, a script kiddie. |
| hackerhackingcan | what you mean by scrpt kiddie? |
| hackerhackingcan | ok now I know |
| hackerhackingcan | you all dont want other people to know about hacking |
| hackerhackingcan | so you say like this |
| rindolf | hackerhackingcan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Script_kiddie |
| hackerhackingcan | so you abused me by calling me script kiddie? |
| hackerhackingcan | When I become a good hacker I will hack you also |
| vinleod | hackerhackingcan: Good luck with that. bye bye. |
| rindolf | hackerhackingcan: OK, you have been warned. |
| hackerhackingcan | why warn? |
| rindolf | hackerhackingcan: try hacking into the IP address 127.0.0.1 |
| vinleod | hackerhackingcan: I bet you can't log into that computer and delete all of its files. |
| luke_c | hackerhackingscan: After that, try to DDOS 192.168.1.1 |
| hackerhackingcan | is 127.0.0.1 your ip? |
| Ethelim | why'd you give him my iP ffs? |
| Ethelim | don't try it, you wouldn't get in anyway. I have it locked down tightly |
| vinleod | hackerhackingcan: So, here's the situation. We don't condone illegal activity. We don't suggest that people attempt illegal activity. We don't like people who do illegal activity. We a programmers. We like to write programs. We like to solve interesting problems. We like to solve interesting puzzles. |
| rindolf | hackerhackingcan: if you haven't noticed, I've become op. |
| rindolf | hackerhackingcan: and I can /kick you and /kickban you. |
| vinleod | hackerhackingcan: Now, if you'd like be a good, productive member of society and learn to program, we can help with that, but we won't spoon feed you either. |
| hackerhackingcan | hahah whose is this ip 192.168.1.1? Your password is admin haha |
| Ethelim | is he for real? |
| vinleod | Ethelim: I doubt it. |
| hackerhackingcan | 192.168.1.1 I am changing your password then call me kid |
| rindolf | Ethelim: he seems like a bad troll. |
| rindolf | But an amusing one. |
| jrslepak | rindolf: depends on how many times you've heard the joke in the recent past |
| Ethelim | dude, you wouldn't get in there. And even if you did all you'd be able to do is reset the guy's connection |
| hackerhackingcan | I will reset it |
| * Ethelim | waits for "someone's" closed connection |
| mst | "Quit: Leaving" |
| vinleod | I saw that coming a mile away/ |
| JabbaWokiee | lol |
| mst | not an actual fell-off-the-internet |
| mst | reasonable exit though |
| mst | oh, and now he's back with a new nick |
| Channel | ##programming |
| Network | Freenode |
| Tagline | From HTML to Hacking Google in Ten Easy Steps |
/dev/null is webscale.
| oilio | so what the point of hashes, can't we just use void pointers to key/val ? |
| rindolf | oilio: hashes as in hash tables? |
| oilio | yes |
| rindolf | oilio: OK. |
| rindolf | oilio: they are one way to efficiently implement the dictionary Abstract Data Type (ADT). |
| rindolf | oilio: a hash table can store more than one key , value pair. |
| oilio | yeah, I read about it in the wikipedia |
| rindolf | oilio: and you can lookup a value based on a key efficiently. |
| arubin | Linear search is good enough for everyone. |
| oilio | indolf: what if the hole table wont fit in the memory? |
| oilio | RAM |
| arubin | Swap. |
| arubin | Amazon S3. |
| imlearningyacc | well if no ram and no swap no allocation |
| arubin | We have the whole Internet for our tables. |
| imlearningyacc | well |
| diminoten | ask reddit how that worked out |
| arubin | And remember, /dev/null is web-scale. |
| imlearningyacc | yea, I store all my data in /dev/null |
| rindolf | oilio: then you'll need to use a more sophisticated (and slower) data structure that can offload to disk. |
| arubin | It is really fast. |
| arubin | I use the Boost libraries for /dev/null too. |
| arubin | And I use async writes to /dev/null. |
| rindolf | arubin: heh. |
| diminoten | don't want to get into resource contention when using /dev/null |
| * rindolf | uses /dev/null for backups. |
| diminoten | only so much null to go around |
| Channel | ##programming |
| Network | Freenode |
| Tagline | /dev/null - the ultra-fast solution for all your storage needs. |
iSomething
| jparkton | and ya know. I bet if one distro popped an i in front like iUbunt, iFedora or some jazz about 300 million people would shell out astronomical amounts of money just to have one before anyone else |
| WinNY | Macs are evil. |
| impulse9 | iCry |
| jercos | iDerp |
| jparkton | iFail |
| jparkton | iStone |
| impulse9 | iQuack |
| jparkton | iFap |
| Jeaye | ifap.cum |
| jparkton | iClean |
| jparkton | iBarf |
| jparkton | iReturn |
| impulse9 | iI |
| rindolf | jparkton: this reminds me of http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=sharp-perl-paid-version-of-cpan . |
| rindolf | iCanHazCheezburger. |
| rindolf | iSuck. |
| rindolf | iAmSpartacus. |
| impulse9 | iAmYourFather |
| jparkton | prolly some new iFag rage |
| rindolf | iAmLame |
| impulse9 | iBlame |
| Channel | ##programming |
| Network | Freenode |
| Tagline | iSuckLessThanJ |
Bad Names for Programs
| rindolf | marzy: Emacs is not a better vim. They are very different. |
| rindolf | marzy: I could never get used to Emacs, but have used Vim for many years. |
| marzy | rindolf Emacs + Evil mode makes a better vim |
| rindolf | marzy: does it support all Vim extensions? |
| marzy | no, that's why its better. it doesn't come with retarded scripting language!! |
| rindolf | marzy: well, it's still not 100% compatible with vim. |
| rindolf | marzy: and Evil is an awful name. Sorry. |
| rindolf | "The only thing more evil than XSLT is XSLT edited with Emacs Evil mode." ;-) |
| marzy | i think it's a good name considering emacs and vi(m) rivalry |
| rindolf | marzy: of course, I've heard worse - coq and coccinelle. |
| rindolf | And then there's this guy here who called his programming language Flua which reminds me of Flu and Influenza. |
| Reactionary | rindolf: lol |
| dardevelin | rindolf, flua IDE is not that bad to be fair (at least the little i tried ) |
| rindolf | dardevelin: didn't say *it* was bad - I said the name was bad. |
| rindolf | dardevelin: and I could never get it running here. Problems with Py3 and PyQt. |
| dardevelin | rindolf, oh that sucks... :/ |
| rindolf | dardevelin: yes. |
| dardevelin | rindolf, yeah i know you didn't said it was bad, just as gave you my opinion on it as a side note. sorry i should have made it more explicit :) |
| rindolf | Of course, Evil is not as bad a name as SLIME, which is another Emacs mode. |
| dardevelin | rindolf, i had troubles with SLIME once and boy i got tired of fighting with it |
| rindolf | Reportedly it was also the nickname of an internal Microsoft version control system called SLM (that is now largely discontinued). |
| Channel | ##programming |
| Network | Freenode |
| Tagline | A rose by any other name |
Selling Open Source Source Code
| codescience | just stumbled across another question. is there an open-source license that prevent anyone from making money off my code? |
| rindolf | codescience: no there isn't. |
| rindolf | codescience: it stands against the open source definition. |
| ssta | codescience: that would violate the spirit of what most people understand "open source" to mean |
| rindolf | codescience: people can sell copies of open source software or services related to it. |
| codescience | hmmm, i understand |
| rindolf | codescience: see http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html |
| ssta | I can legally sell you this copy of the linux kernel...I can charge whaqtever you are willing to pay. Nothing in the license prevents this |
| rindolf | ssta: will you sell it to me for 5,000 USD? |
| rindolf | ;-) |
| ssta | rindolf: sure |
| rindolf | ssta: how about for 3,000 USD? |
| ssta | rindolf: tell you what, for $10,000 I'll throw in a free copy of FreeBSD |
| rindolf | ssta: wow, sounds like a good deal. |
| ssta | rindolf: hmm, 3000 is a bit low, I don't think I could go that cheap |
| rindolf | ssta: heh. |
| rindolf | ssta: how much are you selling the source code of Apache 2.4 for? |
| ssta | rindolf: oh, you can have that for free |
| rindolf | ssta: really? |
| rindolf | Sucker! |
| ssta | rindolf: sure...but the build scripts you have to pay for |
| rindolf | ssta: OK. |
| rindolf | ssta: would you be willing to exchange the source of the Linux kernel for three copies of jQuery? I will even throw in a few free Dojo plugins. |
| rindolf | ssta: he already told us. |
| ssta | rindolf: hmm, not sure I want jQuery |
| ssta | rindolf: would you happen to have code for a halfway decent RDBMS? I think I could swap for that |
| rindolf | ssta: I have the source code for MySQL. Not sure if it's half-decent. |
| codescience | i run a mysql server. runs good enough for me |
| ssta | rindolf: I use MySQL in production quite a lot. It has its flaws, but my use cases never seem to hit them |
| rindolf | ssta: OK. |
| rindolf | ssta: so will you exchanges its source code for the Linux kernel? |
| ssta | rindolf: sure |
| rindolf | ssta: sounds good. |
| rindolf | ssta: you can find the source code of MySQL here - http://www.mysql.com/ |
| ssta | rindolf: you can get the linux source from kernel.org |
| rindolf | ssta: thanks. |
| Channel | ##programming |
| Network | Freenode |
| Tagline | Premium price for free (in either meaning) software. |
gcc warning flags
| doomrobo | rindolf, I got redirected to your gcc important flags page today and I think you may be missing a few things |
| rindolf | doomrobo: do you mean the one in the talk? |
| rindolf | doomrobo: which page are you referring to? |
| doomrobo | rindolf, lemme see |
| rindolf | http://www.shlomifish.org/lecture/W2L/Development/slides/gcc/flags.html - heh, first Google hit for "gcc important flags" |
| rindolf | At least for me. |
| doomrobo | yeah |
| rindolf | doomrobo: OK, I did not originate that page originally. |
| doomrobo | ok |
| rindolf | doomrobo: and it served a certain purpose as material for slides to the Haifa Linux Club's Welcome to Linux series. |
| doomrobo | nice |
| * jrslepak | always found it funny that -Wall doesn't turn on all of the warnings |
| jrslepak | . o O ( gcc -Wno-really-I-mean-all ... ) |
| rindolf | -Wevery-warning-under-the-sun-and-then-some |
| rindolf | -W42 |
| rindolf | -Wchuck-norris |
| doomrobo | -Wextra |
| doomrobo | -whipped-cream |
| jrslepak | and of course -WTF |
| rindolf | jrslepak: :-) |
| rindolf | -Worse |
| rindolf | -Worse-is-better |
| jrslepak | -Wat |
| rindolf | -Whoops |
| doomrobo | -S -Illy -Wabbit |
| rindolf | Heh. |
| jrslepak | -Wascally-wabbit |
| jrslepak | (which really needs to be the name of a future Ubuntu release) |
| doomrobo | people reading this are probably just shaking their heads |
| jrslepak | hey, at least it's not -fallow-undecidable-instances ¬_¬ |
| Channel | ##programming |
| Network | Freenode |
| Tagline | gcc -Whatever |
Ultra Compression
| tnzr | does anyone happen to know what std::allocator.allocate() does when you try to allocate 0 bytes? I get a pointer back but I can't tell what it's pointing at and I can't seem to find anything on the web that gives a difinitive answer |
| GeDaMo | Why are you allocating zero bytes? |
| Billiard | tnzr: the same thing it always returns |
| tnzr | GeDaMo: we are implementing our own allocator for an assignment, and when asked what we should do if the user tries to allocate 0 bytes, the prof said to find out what std::allocator does and mimic that |
| GeDaMo | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6065814/standard-compliant-custom-allocator |
| tnzr | oh snap, thanks GeDaMo |
| GeDaMo | :) |
| rindolf | GeDaMo: zero bytes are enough to hold the Complete Works of Shakespeare. |
| GeDaMo | Depends on how many monkeys you have to decompress it :P |
| rindolf | GeDaMo: heh. |
| rindolf | Of course, I defined a custom decompressor that emits the complete works of Shakespeare on empty input and uses gzip compression otherwise. |
| rindolf | It's pretty large though. |
| Billiard | redeemed: compress the decompressor using the same algo |
| Billiard | errr rindolf |
| rindolf | Billiard: OK. |
| rindolf | Billiard: heh. |
| Billiard | 0 bytes = a decompressor for the entire works of shakespeare |
| Channel | ##programming |
| Network | Freenode |
| Tagline | Shakespeare, compressed |
Ruby Tuesday
| rindolf | Hi all. |
| vandos | hi |
| rindolf | Hello Ruby Tuesday. |
| famously | goodbye ruby tuesday |
| famously | hello emerald thursdays! |
| famously | now i have to choose a precious stone for each day of the week, thanks |
| famously | this is going to take half the night |
| Textmode | sapphire Sundays |
| rindolf | Pearl Mondays. |
| rindolf | Diamond Saturdays. |
| famously | YES! |
| famously | diamond saturday definitely |
| famously | i thought the same thing |
| famously | i guess there's already a gemstone for every month, so this would be seen as kind of a ripoff |
| famously | maybe a metal for every day |
| Channel | ##programming |
| Network | Freenode |
| Tagline | Sunny Diamonds |
Mac Server
| Zepo | Either our mac server is sending out little electroshocks through his cage and into my foot or he is just vibrating really strange... |
| rindolf | Zepo: a mac server? |
| Zepo | rindolf: jeh, we have a macserver running a vm with a ubuntu server |
| rindolf | Zepo: hmm... interesting. |
| Zepo | rindolf: Most people react like "what the...?!" |
| rindolf | Zepo: next you'll tell me that you have an HP/UX Desktop. |
| Zepo | rindolf: I am not that crazy, my chef made this...thing... |
| Channel | ##programming |
| Network | Freenode |
| Tagline | Using the right tool for the job |
Maths Education and Languages
| cheeseduck | rindolf: How long have you got on the book? |
| Jude | rindolf, did you check out the new game of thrones episode? |
| rindolf | Jude: no, I don't watch Game of Thrones. |
| rindolf | Jude: I did see this on Slashdot - http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/03/31/1347248/hbo-says-game-of-thrones-piracy-is-a-compliment . |
| rindolf | Jude: quite encouraging. |
| Jude | why |
| rindolf | Jude: what is encouraging? |
| rindolf | Jude: I mean that some television producers are having a clue about piracy. |
| rindolf | Jude: I think the MPAA is likely going to follow the lead of the RIAA and endorse the Internet. |
| rindolf | Jude: well, there's still a long way to go with even music online. |
| cheeseduck | rindolf: "How to win friends and..." |
| rindolf | cheeseduck: ah, that. MAking slow progress in it. |
| rindolf | cheeseduck: I thought it was a book *I* was writing. |
| rindolf | Lately, I've been writing books and screenplays and stuff more than I've been reading them. :-D |
| cheeseduck | "I've been reading a lot of scripts lately." "You know, it's cheaper than going to the movies." |
| rindolf | cheeseduck: heh. |
| rindolf | cheeseduck: some people find the screenplays funny as they are. |
| rindolf | cheeseduck: they have good imagination. |
| cheeseduck | I always found the standard they are supposed to be written in weird. |
| cheeseduck | Kind of wasteful in space. |
| rindolf | cheeseduck: for other people, it ruins the experience. |
| rindolf | cheeseduck: yes, maybe. |
| Jude | I see rindolf, did you catch the walking dead's finale? |
| rindolf | cheeseduck: I have something of my own - http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/projects/XML-Grammar/Fiction/ |
| rindolf | Jude: not familiar with "Walking Dead". |
| rindolf | Jude: horror drama - I have a soft stomach. |
| rindolf | Jude: I prefer humour or drama/humour or sci-fi/humour or sci-fi/humour/drama or stuff like that. |
| Jude | k, sorry to have bothered you |
| rindolf | Jude: I watched three episodes of My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic, and so far - I'm game. |
| rindolf | Jude: you did not bother me. |
| Jude | never seen it |
| rindolf | Jude: do you watch My Little Pony? |
| rindolf | Jude: ah, I love it so far. |
| Jude | heard it can get quite rough |
| Jude | more nudity and violence than spartacus and game of thrones combined |
| rindolf | One episode involved a lot of songs, which I disliked. |
| rindolf | Jude: heh, LOL. |
| rindolf | Jude++ |
| rindolf | Jude: it's directed at little girls. |
| rindolf | Jude: so it's a pretty clean show. |
| Jude | yeah I know |
| Jude | I was kidding |
| rindolf | Jude: if you want incest and violence, then look no further than the Jewish bible. |
| Jude | there are a lot of dubbing sections of the show to go with metal songs or violent scripts etc |
| Jude | rindolf, I'm jewish |
| rindolf | Jude: reportedly, it was quite realism then (the Bible I mean). |
| rindolf | Jude: ah, nice. So am I. |
| Jude | and I couldn't agree more |
| Jude | I have to go watch game of thrones |
| rindolf | Jude: yes, you need to process the Bible a lot to get to the good stuff. |
| Jude | will talk to you in an hour |
| rindolf | Jude: enjoy. |
| Jude | yeah, in Israel we have to take bible classes |
| Jude | in high school |
| rindolf | Maybe I'll prepare a fortune out of this conversation. |
| Jude | and elementary school too |
| rindolf | Jude: I'm Israeli too. |
| Jude | really? |
| rindolf | Jude: I live in Tel Aviv. |
| Jude | where do you teach |
| rindolf | Jude: yes. |
| Jude | me too.. |
| rindolf | Jude: I don't teach. |
| Jude | don't tell me you live near rabin sq. |
| rindolf | Jude: well, I teach stuff via blogging and Internet writing. |
| rindolf | Jude: no, but I go there often. |
| rindolf | Jude: I live in Gimmel. |
| Jude | ramat aviv? |
| rindolf | Jude: yes. |
| Jude | that's close to TAU |
| Jude | do you study there? |
| rindolf | Jude: yes. |
| Jude | CS? |
| rindolf | Jude: no, I just live with my parents. |
| rindolf | Jude: I graduated from EE from the Technion. |
| Jude | cool |
| rindolf | Jude: http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/computers/education/opinion-on-the-technion/ |
| Jude | that's your blog? |
| rindolf | Jude: it's my home site. |
| Jude | cool |
| rindolf | Jude: a good old fashioned Web 1.0 site in modern clothing. |
| rindolf | Like valid HTML, modern CSS, some JS enhancements, etc. |
| rindolf | But still static HTML pages. |
| rindolf | I have some blogs on livejournal.com/etc. |
| Jude | do you know a guy called nimrod? |
| rindolf | Jude: there are many people called Nimrod - it's a common name. |
| Jude | don't want to give him in on public chat |
| rindolf | Jude: not sure I know a Nimrod off hand. |
| Jude | nevermind then |
| rindolf | Jude: OK, feel free to PM. |
| rindolf | Jude: many Israeli names can get confusing. |
| rindolf | OK. |
| rindolf | Jude: I can easily come to Rabin sq. - there's a bus there from here. |
| Jude | he's my brother, he lives close to you and he's also an open-source enthusaist |
| Jude | I know |
| Jude | there are plenty of them |
| rindolf | Jude: ah, that's great. |
| Jude | I take them to uni on a daily basis |
| Jude | I live right by rabin sq. |
| rindolf | Jude: so you study in TAU? |
| Jude | yeah |
| rindolf | Jude: TAU has tons of hot chicks. |
| Jude | there are some |
| rindolf | Jude: there aren't a lot of people on the streets of Gimmel. |
| rindolf | Jude: so you study CS? |
| Jude | no way |
| Jude | maths |
| rindolf | Jude: ah, I see. |
| rindolf | Jude: maths... |
| Jude | I know one or two nice looking girls, but I usually get put off by their personalities |
| rindolf | Jude: I think maths is taught wrong in several aspects. |
| rindolf | Jude: ah. |
| Jude | I've only been attracted to one specimen of the female sex ever |
| Jude | in my entire life |
| rindolf | Jude: ah, really? |
| Jude | I dunno, I agree when you speak of highschool maths |
| Jude | I like university maths so far |
| Jude | my professors are really nice |
| rindolf | Jude: well, there are a lot of girls studying more humane stuff. |
| rindolf | Jude: http://blogs.perl.org/users/shlomi_fish/2013/03/ann-my-transition-from-software-developer-to-writerentertaineramateur-philosopherinternet-celebrity.html |
| Jude | I generally don't like people who study humane subjects (I don't consider philosophy to be as such though) |
| rindolf | Jude: I've made a transition from a mathematician to a software developer and now I'm more of a writer/entertainer/amateur-philosopher. |
| Jude | you didn't like the way it was taught? |
| rindolf | Jude: like which way? |
| rindolf | Jude: you mean maths? |
| Jude | yes |
| rindolf | Jude: well: 1. No pairwise work. Big mistake. |
| rindolf | 2. Need to memorise a lot of silly stuff. Why?? |
| rindolf | 3. Maybe allow some sloppiness. Make maths more humane. |
| Jude | that's why you got philosophy |
| Jude | maths can't afford to be sloppy |
| rindolf | There's something poetical about many maths' proofs. |
| Jude | the intuitive ideas behind them |
| Jude | are beautiful |
| Jude | but intuition can be misleading |
| Jude | that's why you have to be really strict |
| rindolf | Jude: yes, that's why I think we should now move into proof verifier realm. |
| Jude | if you want your proof to be valid |
| rindolf | Jude: right. |
| rindolf | Jude: but I was once criticised for this - http://ladypine.livejournal.com/24574.html |
| rindolf | Jude: thing is - not everything should be strict when teaching. |
| rindolf | Jude: I agree that mathematical intuition can be misleading, but it's still a good thing to have. |
| rindolf | Jude: thing is I think many mathematicians now require a lot of dedication and selling their soul to the devil, which is turning them into http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Nemo -s. |
| Jude | it's not a very formal proof |
| rindolf | Jude: when I studied EE most of my courses were with open material, and I could do pairwise work, which I enjoyed. |
| Jude | but seems to hold |
| rindolf | Jude: yes. |
| Jude | I guess you are right |
| rindolf | Jude: :-D |
| Jude | that the concept is more important than the formalization |
| Jude | but a lot of my professors agree with you |
| Jude | and would give much more attention to grasping the important concept, and understanding intuition behind proofs |
| rindolf | Jude: I'm always right. Unless I claim that "A is not-A". But Chuck Norris would be right even then. |
| Jude | lol |
| rindolf | Hah! A new Chuck Norris factoid. |
| Jude | <3 |
| Jude | it's been nice chatting with you, I really have to go now, I need to watch GoT and then go to bed and wake up in 4 hours |
| rindolf | Jude: my father and I now have an ongoing Chuck Norris meme. |
| rindolf | Jude: bye, have fun, and good night. |
| Jude | rindolf, what's that |
| rindolf | Jude: what? |
| Jude | the Chuck Norris meme |
| rindolf | Jude: well, we say stuff like "you're my most Chuck Norris dad." or "I taught Chuck Norris how to fight." |
| rindolf | It's a personal running joke. |
| rindolf | Well, a family-wide one. |
| rindolf | We have our own jargon. |
| Jude | heh |
| rindolf | Most families do. |
| Jude | I'm not close enough to any member of my family |
| Jude | to do that |
| rindolf | Ah. |
| Jude | talk to you later, ciao |
| rindolf | Bye. |
| Nisstyre-laptop | rindolf: Douglas Hofstadter gave a talk about how mathematicians aren't as rigorous as they claim to be |
| Nisstyre-laptop | and that they use a lot of analogical thinking |
| rindolf | Nisstyre-laptop: ah, OK. |
| Nisstyre-laptop | it was at the university of Toronto |
| Nisstyre-laptop | I missed it sadly though |
| rindolf | Nisstyre-laptop: ah. |
| rindolf | Nisstyre-laptop: was it filmed? |
| Nisstyre-laptop | but I can basically tell you what he said more or less |
| Nisstyre-laptop | rindolf: there was a webcast |
| rindolf | Nisstyre-laptop: OK. |
| rindolf | Nisstyre-laptop: ah. |
| Nisstyre-laptop | not sure if it can be accessed still |
| rindolf | Nisstyre-laptop: ah. |
| Nisstyre-laptop | <+Nisstyre-laptop> but if you read either GEB or I Am a Strange Loop you'll get it |
| rindolf | Nisstyre-laptop: I read GEB. |
| rindolf | Nisstyre-laptop: GEB was a nice book, but I knew a lot of what he was saying there. |
| rindolf | Nisstyre-laptop: I still enjoyed the drama stuff in the middle with Achilles, the Tortoise and their friends. |
| Nisstyre-laptop | rindolf: you had the idea of using PM as a metaphor for systems of thinking and the mind? |
| Nisstyre-laptop | because that's what the book is about |
| rindolf | Nisstyre-laptop: PM? |
| Nisstyre-laptop | principia mathematica |
| Nisstyre-laptop | the formal system constructed by Russell and Whitehead |
| rindolf | Nisstyre-laptop: I didn't think of it. |
| rindolf | Nisstyre-laptop: yes, I know. |
| Nisstyre-laptop | the entire book is his theory of consciousness |
| Nisstyre-laptop | and how there are levels of thinking |
| rindolf | Nisstyre-laptop: well, I read "I think, therefore I laugh" before I read GEB. |
| Nisstyre-laptop | you can be less of a thinking being, etc... |
| rindolf | Yes, he says that consciousness requires thinking in loops, or self-reflection. |
| rindolf | Well, it's an informal theory of consciousness. |
| Nisstyre-laptop | it requires what he calls a strange loop |
| Nisstyre-laptop | and there can be many levels to it |
| Nisstyre-laptop | more levels == what we think of as more human or more conscious beings |
| Nisstyre-laptop | so PM actually is able to self reflect to an extent |
| Nisstyre-laptop | although it requires a human to interpret it |
| rindolf | I believe, that creating artificial intelligence/artificial consciousness won't be easy to do, will require a lot of complex code, and will likely be faulty (have its own will, make mistakes, not run as quickly as more specialised code, etc.). |
| rindolf | Nisstyre-laptop: yes. |
| Nisstyre-laptop | depends what you mean by AI |
| Nisstyre-laptop | there are several different definitions |
| gde33 | the first human like robot will be build in japan, the first artifical intelligence in the us |
| doomlord | heh |
| gde33 | hahaha |
| Nisstyre-laptop | the church-turing hypothesis would seem to imply it's possible, at least in principle |
| Nisstyre-laptop | to create "strong" AI |
| Nisstyre-laptop | although I intensely dislike that term |
| Nisstyre-laptop | since it tries to say that any system of thinking that doesn't work exactly the same as a human one isn't AI |
| Nisstyre-laptop | which is BS |
| gde33 | you guys are all worried about intelligence, I think that will be the easy part. Then comes the important stuff: giving it a sense of humor. |
| doomlord | so there was the idea that consciousness is associated with information flow, and that "more" information flow is "More" consciousness, a continuum like gravity... but gravity can produce a qualitatively different effect past a certain level (black holes..) |
| doomlord | so the "loop" is where information flow becomes qualitatively different ? |
| Nisstyre-laptop | doomlord: have you read GEB? |
| Nisstyre-laptop | it would be the ability a system has to observe itself, and encode the system itself in the system |
| Nisstyre-laptop | in otherwords self reflection |
| gde33 | I don't know many people who can be truly accused of having their own thoughts |
| doomlord | i dont thinkso but i have some related quotes from somewhere |
| doomlord | but can a system only approximate itself |
| Nisstyre-laptop | principia mathematica has that ability |
| doomlord | can a computer emulate itself... |
| Nisstyre-laptop | as Goedel showed |
| Nisstyre-laptop | you can encode formulas in PM as formulas in PM |
| Nisstyre-laptop | doomlord: yes |
| doomlord | but to what practical extent |
| Nisstyre-laptop | what is that supposed to mean? |
| doomlord | nature has many 'feedback loops' involving information |
| Nisstyre-laptop | physical limitations result in a hard limit of feedback loops |
| doomlord | whats GEB, links? |
| Nisstyre-laptop | if you point a camera at a mirror eventually it will "stop" |
| Nisstyre-laptop | doomlord: it's a book |
| Nisstyre-laptop | Godel, Escher, Bach |
| doomlord | ah google reveals |
| Nisstyre-laptop | but the sequel is more clear on what it's about |
| Nisstyre-laptop | I Am A Strange Loop |
| doomlord | ok sounds interestign |
| Nisstyre-laptop | doomlord: anyway, if you nest implementations of a computer in a computer eventually there will be a limit imposed by the physical situation |
| Nisstyre-laptop | i.e. the memory and processor speed |
| gde33 | only for limited thinkers |
| gde33 | it's like entropy, only for people who are afraid to think :P |
| doomlord | but dont physical systems also have practical limitations |
| gde33 | yes but those are not what we imagine them to be |
| gde33 | if only we knew the meaning of life, that would make things so much easier |
| Stryyker | how? |
| rindolf | I think the whole "AIs spawning AIs" dream is not a good strategy for doing software dev. I think programming is here to stay. It's not like humans can efficiently do what a dedicated polynomial time program can. |
| doomlord | even humans get programmed, lol |
| rindolf | doomlord: yes. |
| gde33 | that new immortality project had some interesting videos |
| rindolf | doomlord: a large part of human technology is mental. |
| rindolf | doomlord: in fact, we can no longer survive without our mental technology. We couldn't for thousands of years. |
| gde33 | oh but we can |
| gde33 | just need a favorable environment |
| doomlord | cultural template = human OS |
| gde33 | not mine |
| rindolf | gde33: you can survive without your mental technology? Even without conceptual thought? |
| gde33 | not sure what you mean |
| gde33 | isn't that what all the other species do? |
| doomlord | i saw some TED talk trying to explain the difference between chinese and western spending/saving habits in the way the language encourages people to think about time |
| doomlord | supposedly chinese language makes it harder to think of past,present,future seperately |
| gde33 | languages can be really weird |
| gde33 | all languages have the word "argument" but some want it to have aditional meanings, I believe in china an argument is equal to disobedience. lol |
| Belxjander | huh? |
| gde33 | in english it is a kind of fight |
| gde33 | 争 is a dispute 争论 is an argument or debate |
| gde33 | I cant think of good examples, I used to know a girl who knew many languages |
| gde33 | she showed me how some things are badly broken in some languages |
| doomlord | is it true japanese can't say "no", they have to repeat the question in negative.. |
| doomlord | thats what we were told when learning but they must have a word for no surely |
| Belxjander | doomlord: there is "Hai" for Yes and "iie" for no |
| doomlord | so its just impolite to say "no" i guess |
| * Belxjander | is living in Japan |
| Belxjander | doomlord: you lose context... |
| Belxjander | doomlord: in English you don't repeat |
| gde33 | hah no |
| Belxjander | but in Japanese you do |
| Belxjander | gde33: depends on the person... my mother and father thought nothing of explaining politeness to me and will happilly talk overtop me when I am speaking |
| rindolf | gde33: I only know (Modern) Hebrew, English, some mostly forgotten Written Arabic, and some French (which I'm now trying to regain). |
| Belxjander | I have also run into the same from Chinese, Japanese, American, European AND African people I have met |
| rindolf | gde33: well, I also know bits of other languages like Spanish, Russian, German, etc. |
| rindolf | gde33: I know that in Hebrew we have compulsive genders for objects, so we don't care about phrasing sentences in a gender-neutral form, which is an English obsession. |
| rindolf | gde33: I think it is parodied in this book - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinny_Legs_and_All_%28novel%29 (great one, BTW - taught me a lot). |
| doomlord | heh languages with sexism built in.. gender all the way through |
| gde33 | some languages are also more emotional than others |
| gde33 | italians are hilarious |
| gde33 | so much enthusiasm it makes you think something is going on |
| Belxjander | gde33: spoken or written and the correct manner for if you are addressing "up/peer/down" the social ladder with regards respect... yes |
| gde33 | Belxjander: does that apply to many words? |
| Channel | ##programming |
| Network | Freenode |
“I need an Open Source Something…”
| user2013 | I need open source remote desktop in j2me |
| rindolf | user2013: hi. |
| rindolf | user2013: you again? |
| user2013 | I need open source remote desktop in j2me |
| user2013 | I need open source remote desktop in j2me |
| rindolf | user2013: we heard you. |
| atamagawarui | user2013: I need an open-source, free rocket launcher in either VBScript or Batch! |
| sksupp | can do |
| rindolf | atamagawarui: heh. |
| rindolf | atamagawarui: I prefer it in AutoCad's AutoLisp. |
| sksupp | VBscript 3+ years experience, team can perform your task quik time 300 dollars paypal |
| rindolf | atamagawarui: or in PDP-10 Assembly. |
| atamagawarui | rindolf: haha |
| sksupp | i guarantee if you put that on freelancer |
| sksupp | offers will come |
| atamagawarui | sksupp: lol, to whom are you going to outsource the task? |
| sksupp | i know |
| sksupp | i'll assign it as a project for this java class i TA |
| Channel | ##programming |
| Network | Freenode |
| Tagline | No problem there… |
