.om ljuwaidah: so aren't there more people who use FOSS in Oman? there are, but they're only a few ljuwaidah: ah. Oman has .om as its TLD. .om .nom .nom p.om p.om kabo.om DJB got the cr.yp.to domain. And there's also ali.as which is Adam Kennedy's. looool rand.om :P do.om :P ro.om m.om your.m.om hahahaha is that supposed to be a milf site? :P yahoo.c.om bro.om http://yourmom.com/ Though it's down now. don't keep your hopes up on .om domains our ISP is a greedy money sucker "I'd rather be a .com than a .om" rindolf: me too ljuwaidah: this was a joke. I have a few .org domains. From GoDaddy unless you need it for a domain trick <--- .com bastard here rindolf: where's the joke? ljuwaidah: joke? ljuwaidah: it rhymes. dot-com, dot-om - get it? get it? get it? ;-) no :( ljuwaidah: om rhymes with com. so? ljuwaidah: "I'd rather be a dot-com than a dot-om" ljuwaidah: it's just a silly rhyme. I'd rather a website Black_Phoenix: I accidentally a web-site. I still don't get the joke rindolf, I'd still rather a blog Black_Phoenix: rather what a blog? Website a blog ljuwaidah: never mind. sorry, I don't know why I'm slow today Black_Phoenix: do you mean that you would rather *be* a web-site? I'd rather website a blog broken grammar time :D Black_Phoenix: when did website become a verb? it didn't I'm using it as a verb to produce nonsense I sense light! {I see} ljuwaidah: http://www.google.com.om/ rindolf: I know If Google can do it - so can you. I don't use it 'cause some services don't work on it ljuwaidah: ah. ljuwaidah: in any case, seems like one can register a .com.om domain. ##programming Freenode The .om domain With what to write code? How do I write a computer vision program in C on a microcontroller? Quetzalcoatl_: with a text editor? Hmm.. Never thought of that. But which editor? Is Notepad good enough? no, you need at least Wordpad mauke: I suggest MS Word or at least OpenOffice.org mauke: but in order to really be able to write well, you need a desktop publishing program like Scribus or Adobe FrameMaker. wonders which compiler will accept PDFs as input. rindolf: /usr/bin/pdftotext waiting: and pray. There's an esoteric programming language called Piet (I think) that accepts images as input. ##programming Freenode How to write stylistic code Your Emacs is so fat Deiu: which editor are you using? Ugh, let me catch up with the convo first And yeah, I use vim too Deiu: ah good. If you were using Eight Megabytes And Continuously Swapping , I would have to swap you with it! I have a column of vim tips on one of my blogs. I also like Escape-Meta-Alt-Control-Shift. There are a lot of jokes about Emacs. There are lots of jokes about your mom too ;) Zuu: eMom eh? e-Macs -> eMum "Your Mom is so fat, only Emacs takes more memory than her." nope, doesn't work Zuu: :-( Your emacs is so fat that your mom could fit in it Heh. ahhh, yes, much better Zuu++ :P has joined ##programming stores some key/value pairs in dbm stores some moms in dbm lol Zuu: you overflowed him. :> ;) Or her, don't know. them. 'him' OK. dbm: I don't recall your nick. dbm= don't bother me don't be mean. ;) or: do bother me ##programming Freenode Your Emacs is so fat Why XSLT is so evil? has joined ##programming Hi How can I do <a href="$variable">blah</a> in XSLT? xmler: you can use <xsl:attribute> xmler: or use ${...} xmler: have you read the Zvon XSLT tutorial? rindolf: I've read various resources; perhaps it's the fault of XML::XSLT on CPAN xmler: use XML::LibXSLT instead. It's faster and better. <insert mean statement about XSLT> :) "XSLT is the work of Satan" "It's the worst thing since non-sliced bread." Hahaha :D "Mothers used to tell their children about XSLT to scare them." Haha That last one is good XSLT seems pretty cool xmler, no no, that's not mean you're doing it wrong :P XSLT is too cool to be mean to :p Hehe "XSLT is the number one cause of programmers' suicides since Visual Basic 1.0" lol :> I could believe in that "The X in XSLT stands for eXtermination." "XSLT makes the baby jesus cry." "The only things worse than XSLT are Excel and sugarless tea." rofl kinda likes Excel Zuu: yes, it was a joke. Noooh! they are all true! Now I'm out of ideas. i haven’t even had a single idea yet.. "XSLT is what Chuck Norris has nightmares of." Whoah! wait.. that would somehow make XSLT cooler than Chuck Norris... Chuck Norris don't have mightmares "Confucius e says: 'XSLT made me realise humanity was hopeless." "Even APL wont make friends with XSLT" yay, i maded one! "God considered using XSLT as the tenth plague of Egypt, but thought it was too evil." Zuu: :-) Haha :D that plague one is awesome "In Soviet Russia, XSLT codes you. Badly!" "Satan condemned Hitler for a million years of writing XSLT" OK, back to work. C - not XSLT. :) "The KGB used to torture their victims by having them look at scrolling XSLT code" rindolf: lol, love the KGB + XSLT one rindolf: by the way, what's with the XSLT hate by the way, is it some kind of meme? :p gives xmler an XSLT interpreter written in XSLT I wanna make ASM code from XSLT "My name is Inigo Montoya. You forced my father to write XSLT. Prepare to die! And be thankful I don't force you to write XSLT." Ah for gawd's sake. Can't install XML::LibXML, it says I don't have libxml2 (I do) xmler: do you have the -devel package? xmler: what is your distro? OS distro I mean. rindolf: Debian 4.0 Ooh, perhaps I don't actually xmler: OK, then apt-get install libxml-libxslt-perl have to go o/ xmler: maybe we should discuss it on #perl? Zuu: bye Zuu: and beware of stray XSLT code. I will :P Zuu: OK. rindolf: sure, uno memento :) ##programming Freenode Chuck Norris is out! XSLT is in! Introducing dazjorz to Zuu rindolf! areth thou here? Hi dazjorz :) dazjorz: yes, I are here. isn't it kind of weird to have a programming channel when there are language specific channels around? Muhah! dazjorz: this is about programming in general. At least theoretically. And VB.NET questions. Well, ##programming is a good place to ask C questions and actually get helpful answers :) rindolf: did you intentionally make it look like VB.NET is not programming? dazjorz: meet Zuu - he's into Windows and D and stuff. ! dazjorz: no. dazjorz: VB.NET is programming. hey Zuu, I'm dazjorz, I'm into Linux and c and stuff. But it has its own channel. :> rindolf: I've been thinking about changing nicks dazjorz: ah. so did I. is into everything sane, except the boring stuff dazjorz: to what? rindolf: my current one is waaaay too lame, but "sjors" is probably too generic dazjorz: I like dazjorz rindolf: I don't, because when people see my name is sjors, da zjorz is just too lame to bear rindolf: I was thinking about sjors, or some three-letter abbreviation of my name, sjg or so how about.... 'carrot' ? I think I do prefer dazjorz over carrot no worries, i promise not to stuff you up rindolf's tomato nose hum :< Zuu: when I first read your nick on Shlomi's site five minutes ago, I asked him whether you were a mix between Zorix and Buu do you know the two? Zoffix and buu. nope uh Zoffix yeah Zuu: okay, well, you don't know them, but believe me, I'm glad you're not a mix of the two, that would be horrible :P I'm a mix of much worse personalities I'm sure most of them just happen to cancel each other out ##programming Freenode Introducing dazjorz to Zuu Reindeers, Tomatoes and Nicks dazjorz: I considered switching my default nick to "shlomif", because that's how most people know me. rindolf: yeah, it's your alternative nick now right? dazjorz: but then XChat 2 reverted to the old nick and I was too lazy. You seem to have many, well, stupid friends, rindolf :P dazjorz: yes, I have it registered. unreal: stupid? rindolf, noo! what to do about the tomato then? fish don't have big tomato noses! Zuu: fish? Zuu: I'll give you a tomato. good question I'll give you the tomato back. where do i get fish from no no, keep it :D Zuu: my last name is Fish. slaps Zuu with a fish there ya go rindolf: I just registered 'sjors' gives a fish to Zuu rindolf: as a nick. rindolf, that is just absurd, a reindeer with 'fish' as surname... your parents must have hated you Open source: "everyone contributes a fish, and in exchange everyone gets their own ocean." dazjorz: ah, cool. tommy_the-dragon, does dragons eat other animals, like fish? Ocean == Big Momma's Bath? Zuu: I'm not a reindeer - I just play one on T.V. not fish... just reindeers tommy_the-dragon, what about fake TV reindeers ? Nice :D unreal: no, the whole enchilada. tommy_the-dragon: LOL. and enchiladas rindolf: I know someone whose nick is Stonehead, he made his three-letter acronym stn, but usually it's letters from the first name uh the full name yours could be shf for example, and everybody would know "hey, that's Shlomi" but I'm at most sg, so I need to borrow another letter somewhere, or make it daz or just sjors thinks my cat eats flies... dazjorz: I hate these three letter acronyms. Shlomi really sounds like some dish made of reindeer but he's lucky because i don't eat cats Zuu: heh. heh tommy_the-dragon: I didn't know dragons had cats. what's the name of the red-nosed reindeer again? it sounds edible at least oh rudolf :) dazjorz: Randolph. oh I used to have a friend whose nick was "crap" unreal: wow. <someguy> crap, someone stole my bicycle <crap> OK? dazjorz: heh. rindolf: why don't you like the three-letter acronyms? dazjorz: often too confusing. dazjorz: and two easy to mistype. dazjorz: and not too memorable. LIS. three easy to mistype, I think And often hard to pronounce. maybe I'll just go with sjors too easy. Freudian. dazjorz: yes, I think that's a good idea. (Lies, I say!) hehe, rindolf++ # Freudian or you could pick something girly and hope people will treat you nicer :) dazjorz: have you played with the farnsworth bot yet? Zuu: RinGirl Though nicks with "Girl " in them tend to draw too much attention. nah, it cant contain 'girl' that just seems fake rindolf: I have rindolf: remind me to fix knotify, khtml, and quassel :( dazjorz: nice. dazjorz: using MemoServ? rindolf: the bugs annoy me, a lot, but I never get around to actually trying to fix them Zuu: maybe I should call myself "Shlomi". Americans will think I'm a girl. yeah, it kinda have a girlish sound to it rindolf: call yourself "Shloma", Dutch people will think you're over sixty and female dazjorz: heh. let me rephrase that Dutch people will think you're female... and over sixty (oma = grandma) dazjorz: ah. kloot. In Hebrew nouns that end with "ah" tend to be feminine. Shlomah? Seriously now, if I change my nick it will be to shlomif. let's change our nicks at the same time Well, in Shlomi's case it would be Shlomith. I will be sjors, you will be shlomif dazjorz: OK. is now known as shlomif shit, now I have to what does "shlomif" even mean ? is now known as sjors Zuu: Shlomi = his first name, f = the first letter of his last name sjors: hi. Zuu: Shlomi Fish. hi shlomif Hi sjors where does rindolf come into it? sjors: my nick is longer than yours. oh lol, and i just said his name sound girly :P pat pats shlomif ^^ tommy_the-dragon: Rindolf was a dwarven warrior I played in AD&D. ahh OK gives Zuu his tomato back. :< Since I'm no longer a reindeer. shlomif: that's just to compensate against something you have that's way shorter than mine sjors: LOL. sjors++ Erhmm.. shlomif! how come there's this big hole in it? sorry... my bad Hehe doesn't like raw tomatoes. But I eat them with pasta, etc. Or as meat sauce. or in sandwiches sjors: anyway, welcome to ##programming or on reindeer nose sjors: I'll probably revert to "rindolf" after next disconnect. Zuu: after you cook the entire reindeer. is a reindeer cannibal. Well, rindolf is. yes, but he ran away I also like dried and olive oiled tomatoes. shlomif: I just changed my clients' settings to reconnect as sjors, too Well, I think I'll go to sleep. sjors: ah. shlomif: it'll probably take a while to "adapt" to sjors instead of dazjorz sjors: well, enjoy your new nick. and I still have dazjorz.com, and not sjors.anything tugs shlomif in thanks ;) Zuu: thanks. quickly squeezes a fresh tomato onto shlomif's nose shlomif: sjors.biz and sjors.mobi at most doesn't have rindolf.{com,org,net} etc. sjors: maybe sjors.in I got a shlom.in sjors.indahou.se sjors: heh. sjors.ac, sjors.ag, sjors.am, sjors.at hehe sjors.me sjors.pl, too bad i don't really do perl any more sjors: there's also .sh sjors.sh, too bad I don't really do shell script a lot Or .im sjors.tv, too bad I don't really watch.. do you own a mobile? .tv are pretty costly. meh I don't like sjors. anyway, so I'll just keep dazjorz for everything yeah what's with that (the price of .tv)? tommy_the-dragon: it's the foundation of the economy of Tuvalu. ##programming Freenode Reindeers, Tomatoes and Normalising Nicks SNAFU Cake tries to think what can cause the KDE 4 SNAFU on his user. And hopefully to avoid bisecting the KDE 4 config tree. snafu... that wounds like a delicious cake :D *sounds Zuu: Situation Normal - All F****ed up. :/ gives the snafu cake to Dmage :D Dmage, just eat the cake already Zuu, are you hate my English? ;) i hate your non-English I English your hate xD Dmage, but i don't hate you! :D and now I can do that Zuu, learn Russian then! :) Hehe Dmage, i think you'd hate my Russian far more than i would ever hate your English Spasiva. xD learn 'Eto huinya!' steals the snafu cake back from Dmage and gives it to rindolf instead and apply everywhere eats the SNAFU cake :D eats Zuu's Danish too. Noooh! loves Zuu's Danish. Yum yum. tis mine! My daaaanish :'( My precioussssssssss! tis gone :< ##programming Freenode SNAFU Cake What is Qantor? What should I do now? I'll work on Text-Qantor. It's so great not to have a job. yeah, if someone else pays for the food it sure is :D also, i don't really understand much of what you just told me :P puts a stick into the Text-Qantor Zuu: Qantor == Qantor ain't no TeX/Troff oh really. It's a typesetting system I'm working on. hates the name it makes me kinda mad actually :/ Zuu: :-) Zuu: maybe it will grow on you. Zuu: some people I know named a browser suckass. :( I refused to work on it. see that's a name! Zuu: heh. i didn't mean that BTW :) suckass is kinda... unkind OK, now I should write an http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/facts/XSLT/ transformation. I'll start from something I already have. But the "X ain't no <something related>" is just a lame naming convention IMHO yeah, work on some XSLT facts :D Zuu: just call it Qantor then. Without the mnemonics. but anyone interested will learn that it's an abbreviation just by the fact that it's recursive makes me want to kill myself a little bit more :P Zuu: do me a break and kill yourself. :> Less Zuus - more grass for evil reindeers like me to feed on. ##programming Freenode What is Qantor? Turing Hard Pythack now was able to get the fc-solve test suite up and running. eh?! solves rindolf Zuu: http://fc-solve.berlios.de/ Zuu: I am not solvable. I am Turing hard. :S never heard of anything called 'turing hard' lol. Zuu's probabilistic, so maybe he can solve you. but i guess i have now Formal definition of Turing hard: blah blah blah hard blah blah Turing blah. Hahahaha :D Wikipedia: Given a set X in P(N), a set A in N is called Turing hard for X if X <=_T A for all X in X. If additionally A is in X, then A is called Turing complete for X. Does that clarify? (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_reduction for the actual math symbols) assumes you get the point yeah, i think i'll have to put significant time into that, for me to comprehend it :) but maybe i will, some day :P My point is that people like to use mumbo jumbo to describe more concise mumbo jumbo. E.g. A problem is NP-hard if it is at least as hard as all the problems in NP. i understand enough of it, to be fairly confident that rindolf being turing hard, will not say much about his ability to be solved I'm guessing Turing-hard means you can't solve a problem with a Turing machine (e.g. the halting problem) (substitute Turing machine with "your computer" :) ) no, turing hard has something to do with expressiveness okay, Zuu > joeyadams, so I can't help you :) tickles joeyadams ^^ A delicious apple is any fruit ∈ apple that is at least as tasty as any other fruit ∈ apple. In other words, apples are in the set of recursively nommable fruits. joeyadams: what's up? I'm babbling. joeyadams: Apple is one of my least favourite fruits. watches a number of apples that recursively NOM's each other It tends to be too commonplace. Or simpleton. whoops, my logic is incorrect Only delicious apples are ∈ the nommable fruits. (recursively is just a word you throw in to sound smart) NOMs joeyadams :> joeyadams: a friend of one of my sisters said that Apple is his favourite fruit. Ta-zuu! has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection nommed by peer)) yeah, unfortunately a lot of people throw with a lot of words to sound smart :/ my favourite fruit is a recursive banana! although it certainly helps to use complex terminology to solve complex problems. As Aristophanes said, "High thoughts must have high language." .. along with immutable polymorphic pears Zuu> I guess you have to peel it indefinitely? lol Hahah, yeah :P I tend to eat bananas in deterministic polynomial time. i eat them in linear time, but uses exponential space lol Heh. eww ##programming Freenode Turing Hard The Ultimate ##programming Showdown has joined ##programming yo ecere!! yay, life :) tickles ljuwaidah punches Zuu in the face starts crying :'( Fight! Fight! Fight! runs home to mommy Let's get ready to rumble!!! punches rindolf in the face for encouraging the fight, that is hehe uses his Evil Antlers to summon a squadron of Chuck Norrises. oh my! unleashes the Chuck Norrises upon ljuwaidah uses his anti-chuck-norris spell those antlers must be the most evil thing in the entire universe *antlers ljuwaidah: your spell only works on one chuck norris at a day. And I have 119 more. Finish him! i wonder what will happen if one Chuck Norris accidentally punches another rindolf: then lemme use my duplication spell to make more of myself so THEY can use the spell ljuwaidah: heh. ljuwaidah++ thanks :D ljuwaidah: two can play this game. runs his recursive copying spell making lots of Evil rindolf reindeers exponentially. Like Bacteria. darn! i didn't see that coming but you also forgot that if _I_ can duplicate myself then so can my duplicates B-) ##programming Freenode ispy Emulating a Clueless Newbie has joined ##programming hi gang. I'm a n00b programmer and think I should learn A and B before C, right? ispy_: General understanding should come before that. std_orb: I have no idea what I'm doing... ispy_: I can see that kicks the dirt... I've been meaning to get into it Is C like JavaScript? Same thing right? ispy_: lol ispy_: Perl is more like C than JS is. rindolf: Never heard of Perl... I should Google that. ispy_: use Bing search instead. Or Altavista. rindolf: i see. rindolf, std_orb, tommy_the-dragon ... thanks for the pointers :) ispy_: you should learn Intercal, it's the most expressive language possible. rindolf: Sounds exciting! Intercal... lol! haha OK OK OK... I can't continue this... I'm practically laughing my ass off at my desk. :-) hehe ##programming Freenode What kind of animal is Zuu? Hai all Zuu: hai hai. Zuu: what's up , kit? Zuu: or what are you , I forgot? Hai rindolf :D I am a reindeer. But also a Llama. And a cat. I'm a Zuu And a fish naturally. Zuu: ah , OK. :D creates a Zoo of Zuus ^^ Are you the master Zuu? Like Q is the master of the Q's in Star Trek? i think I'm the only Zuu Oh, one of a kind. Which is kinda sad really :( Who am i supposed to mate with? Reminds me of http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Blue-Rabbit-Log/ideas.xhtml Though I need to add that part. Let me do it now. whatever webserver you use, it doesn't provide the right mimetype... At least IE 8 don't attempt to render the document Zuu: you cannot using IE 8 Zuu: you need Firefox. Zuu: it's application/xml+xhtml Or Opera. well, it indeed is the right mimetype... stupid IE well, my FF crashed, so i just use IE when that happens Zuu: ah. FF crashed? How strange. Maybe you have a bad plugin. It does that around 6 times a day Not an extension - a plugin. Ah, really. Something is wrong in the Zuuniverse. Or Zuumputer. nah, i suspect one of the tabs are just doing some strange stuff memory leaking javascript ro something like that it is kinda starting to annoy me but with 90 - 120 tabs, it would take quite a while to find out what tab it is you might consider starting your articles, or whatever this is, with an introduction telling what it's about Zuu: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Blue-Rabbit-Log/ideas.xhtml#the-angry-demon Zuu: it's not an article - these are random ideas for a screenplay. Zuu: but I'll write an intro. start the page with "Here are some of my random ideas for a screen play I'm writing:" at LEAST! you cant just jump right into something without giving _any_ indication ow what the reader can expect it simply doesn't make any sense as it is now you could just as well have posted a log of ljuwaidah talking :P Zuu: thanks. :) Zuu: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Blue-Rabbit-Log/ideas.xhtml#intro Interactive Web! i think you have forgotten to define the #intro anchor Zuu: reload. Zuu: it's there. hah, caches... :P :D Pesky things. Evil reindeers don't like caches. Neither do cats. I'm an evil reindeer but a good cat. Hehe Don't know how it works. I guess good and evil are relative. Or actually I wore a helmet of alignment change. ##programming Freenode Meaning of the Zuu species Hi rindolf :) Hi Zuu Zuu: I've been thinking that maybe you can find some corresponding Zuus of the appropriate sex in a different dimension. hmmm... interesting! Zuu: are you a heterosexual Zuu or a homosexual one? I'm not sure what sex I am. Zuu: ah. :P Zuu: you can look. Zuu: in the mirror or something. Zuu: don't you have obligatory genders in Danish/ ? Like in German, French, etc. Or Hebrew and Arabic. obligatory genders? you mean, the genders in linguistics? never understood those but Danish have two i believe, and if i remember correctly there is female and 'none' Zuu: yes, genders in linguistics. i don't remember what which is which though :P Like in Hebrew "Haben Halakh lagan" - the boy went to the garden. "Habath Halkha lagan" - "The girl went to the garden" That almost sounds like allah akbar rindolf, no we don't distinct between the genders of the subject in the danish language our nouns have genders though zuu-nina? like 'house' is one gender and 'car' is another Zuu: of course the question is - what language do Zuus speak natively? rindolf: Of course, Zuu speaks Zuu! Zuuish? The Zulu population also does not speak Zuluish, just Zulu. so if you want to say 'the house' its 'huse_t_' and if you want to say 'the car' its 'bile_n_' c_sphere: Arnavoth (sounds like an Aztec god) is "Hares" (the Rabbit-like mammal) in Hebrew. Zuu: can you understand Swedish? rindolf, some :) Zuu: ah. swedish branched from danish AFAIK same with norwegian yes, Zuu's speak Zuuish natively :P is listening to Hans Zimmer - Jack Sparrow Zuu: ah. Zuuish has few words, all of which is based on words about cake from other languages :P c_sphere, are you by any chance related to s_cube ? Zuu: ah, what do you use the Hebrew word "עוגיה" (= `ugiyah, cookie) for? "Chocolate chip pie crust marmalade marzipan cookie yum yum!" i use it for cookies baked from a hebrew recipe :P What does it mean in Zuuish? it's hard to really say something in Zuuish... al you can really do is say something equivalent to "COOKIES!!" or "YAY CAKE!" basically, you can only express excitement over different kinds of cakes :P Zuu: do Zuus eat anything except cakes or cookies? There was this one time... wait.. no. That was someone else. ##programming Freenode What can a Zuu do? ##programming about Real Programmers Chekov: I disagree with what ESR says in TAOUP that you shouldn't apply factor optimisations. I think they can make a very large difference. Chekov: he seems to imply you should wait until computers are fast enough. Problem is people don't want to upgrade and if a competing program (maybe a fork ) is much faster, then some of them will switch. Programs being speedy is one thing that makes me happy. I love all the work the KDE people did in making KDE-4.6.0 fast. rindolf: awesome blog link! And I enjoy the fact that Pidgin is much faster than Kopete (and also less buggy). I've used Kopete for far too long. rindolf: switch to Irssi and Bitlbee! :D vanguard: yes. vanguard: though they failed on Google Wave. osoleve: nah, I like Pidgin. osoleve: it's fast enough for me. osoleve: and I also prefer XChat. but is it nerdy enough? osoleve: I'm not trying to be a Ubergeek. osoleve: real men use Xmonad! Hey, it is not Uber but Über ... :D real programmers use butterflies. real programmers are Tao real programmers flip bits by hand real programmers speak assembly Chuck Norris is a real programmer who implements the most optimised machines for solving a problem out of physical atoms. real programmers use a nice editor and a programming language and get done in less than O(N!) ##programming Freenode Semicolons tell me how can u print a message without using a semicolon in the printg statement wes_: in C? wes_: do you mean the printf(...) statement? yes wes_: you cannot without using macros I think. wes_: and don't use macros for that. i mean without using a semicolon at the printf statement but you have to use printf only wes_: why would you want to do that? wes_: what do you have against semicolons? Some of my best friends are semicolons. semicolons got me where I am today man http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semicolon lulzfish_4: heh. "I owe it all to semicolons." hey rindolf lulzfish_4 Hi amigojapan amigojapan: what's up? gives a semicolon to amigojapan returns a whitespace to rindolf amigojapan: that's not fair trade. But I'll treasure the whitespace. rindolf: a whitespace is just as valuable as a semicolon in python :) amigojapan: aren't semicolons optional in Py? rindolf: I think they are rindolf: actually, a whitespace can be as valuable as 2 curly braces :) amigojapan: heh. amigojapan: you need 4 spaces to distinguish stuff properly. rindolf: one thing I never got about python is why they need the : after if and for statements.... gives a colon to rindolf :) rindolf: actually, I prefer using tabs to 4 spaces... PythonSnake: thanks for the colon. rindolf: lol PythonSnake: I'll give you a « and a » in exchange. lol rindolf: the fact that you don't have a rule to how much white space you must use to indent in python, I think is a bad thing... finds a interrobang :) rindolf: if it is 4 spaces then fine, but make it a rule so it is consistent ‽ lol ‽ ∴ ‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡‡ ¿ ₳ ฿ ₵ ¢ ₡ ₢ ₠ $ ₫ ৳ ₯ € ƒ ₣ ₲ ₴ ₭ ℳ ₥ ₦ ₧ ₱ ₰ :) rindolf: oh, now you are speaking spanish amigojapan: :-) all: :) ¡I am! うるさいよ　文字化け Jag förvrängd bullriga איך גאַרבאַלד טומלדיק :) ah, hebrew hir something.... º, ª man, I forgot how to read hebrew amigojapan: איך גאַרבאַלד טומלדיק seems like Yiddish. rindolf: ah, OK.... can you change it into roman letters for me? amigojapan: Ich Garbald Tomldiq. ich would be I I think I only know curse words in Yiddish :P ich bin masaru ich bin ein berlinner is eating watermelon. rindolf: save a piece for me :) amigojapan: I'll save a semicolon for you. rindolf: For me too. :) rindolf: a semicolon looks a lot like two pits of a watermelon steals PiX3L 's piece ##programming Freenode Give Your Friend a Semicolon Today Calculator vinleod, Yes, he wants to find a solution which yields a point 10 units away, your solution yields a point, exactly 7.66044 units away vinleod, Oh wait vinleod, I'm an idiot, didn't factor out cos vinleod, Yes you're right. kicks calculator hehe, I was in the process of writing a python script to prove it. picks up Endiannes's calculator NEVER KICK YOUR CALCULATOR Kicking your calculator is a sin At least its not a cos. but you should at least get a tan Heh. ##programming Freenode Calculator The Universal Die Ok so I know javascript, PHP, perl in some detail. However, I want to become good at one. I was thinking Perl? monsterwizard: roll a die. rindolf the die showed a 7 :S monsterwizard: heh. lol monsterwizard: strange die. throw away the die throws the die at hmm catches die, die, die! wants to live hmm: but the die wants to die. Take it out of its misery. who knows, even the die isn't ready to die hmm: dice should be diced. dice on ice. yeah, go dice the dice ##programming Freenode I Wanna Be a Hacker (~hackingca@117.202.19.189) has joined ##programming Hi friends I am also new to hacking hackerhackingcan: hi. hackerhackingcan: I hope you mean software development - not computer intrusion. what means intrusion? hackerhackingcan: it means breaking into other people’s systems. I want to hack the internet websites like Google and facebook hackerhackingcan: hack? can you help please? hackerhackingcan: hack into? yes I am new but I will try and learn but can you help me rindolf? hackerhackingcan: we won’t help you break into systems. wut? hack into Google? hackerhackingcan: with what? hack into facebook Google and internet hackerhackingcan: we build systems - not break them. please? hackerhackingcan: http://catb.org/~esr/writings/unix-koans/script-kiddie.html hackerhackingcan: if you want to learn how to program, we can help you. hackerhackingcan: but trying to break into computer systems will only get you in trouble. I can do programming in html hackerhackingcan: HTML is not a programming language. is that enough for hacking? hackerhackingcan: There’s no such things as programming in HTML. I can also do hacks in cmd Ah, a script kiddie. what you mean by script kiddie? OK now I know you all don't want other people to know about hacking so you say like this hackerhackingcan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Script_kiddie so you abused me by calling me script kiddie? When I become a good hacker I will hack you also hackerhackingcan: Good luck with that. bye bye. hackerhackingcan: OK, you have been warned. why warn? hackerhackingcan: try hacking into the IP address 127.0.0.1 hackerhackingcan: I bet you can’t log into that computer and delete all of its files. hackerhackingscan: After that, try to DDOS 192.168.1.1 is 127.0.0.1 your ip? why’d you give him my IP ffs? don’t try it, you wouldn’t get in anyway. I have it locked down tightly hackerhackingcan: So, here’s the situation. We don’t condone illegal activity. We don’t suggest that people attempt illegal activity. We don’t like people who do illegal activity. We a programmers. We like to write programs. We like to solve interesting problems. We like to solve interesting puzzles. hackerhackingcan: if you haven’t noticed, I’ve become op. hackerhackingcan: and I can /kick you and /kickban you. hackerhackingcan: Now, if you’d like be a good, productive member of society and learn to program, we can help with that, but we won’t spoon feed you either. hahah whose is this ip 192.168.1.1? Your password is admin haha is he for real? Ethelim: I doubt it. 192.168.1.1 I am changing your password then call me kid Ethelim: he seems like a bad troll. But an amusing one. rindolf: depends on how many times you’ve heard the joke in the recent past dude, you wouldn’t get in there. And even if you did all you’d be able to do is reset the guy’s connection I will reset it waits for "someone’s" closed connection "Quit: Leaving" I saw that coming a mile away/ lol not an actual fell-off-the-internet reasonable exit though oh, and now he’s back with a new nick ##programming Freenode From HTML to Hacking Google in Ten Easy Steps /dev/null is webscale. so what the point of hashes, can’t we just use void pointers to key/value ? oilio: hashes as in hash tables? yes oilio: OK. oilio: they are one way to efficiently implement the dictionary Abstract Data Type (ADT). oilio: a hash table can store more than one key / value pair. yeah, I read about it in the wikipedia oilio: and you can lookup a value based on a key efficiently. Linear search is good enough for everyone. rindolf: what if the whole table won’t fit in the memory? RAM Swap. Amazon S3. well if no ram and no swap no allocation We have the whole Internet for our tables. well ask reddit how that worked out And remember, /dev/null is web-scale. yea, I store all my data in /dev/null oilio: then you’ll need to use a more sophisticated (and slower) data structure that can offload to disk. It is really fast. I use the Boost libraries for /dev/null too. And I use async writes to /dev/null. arubin: heh. don’t want to get into resource contention when using /dev/null uses /dev/null for backups. only so much null to go around ##programming Freenode /dev/null - the ultra-fast solution for all your storage needs. iSomething and ya know. I bet if one distro popped an i in front like iUbuntu, iFedora or some jazz about 300 million people would shell out astronomical amounts of money just to have one before anyone else Macs are evil. iCry iDerp iFail iStone iQuack iFap ifap.cum iClean iBarf iReturn iI jparkton: this reminds me of http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=sharp-perl-paid-version-of-cpan . iCanHazCheezburger. iSuck. iAmSpartacus. iAmYourFather prolly some new iFag rage iAmLame iBlame ##programming Freenode iSuckLessThanJ Bad Names for Programs marzy: Emacs is not a better vim. They are very different. marzy: I could never get used to Emacs, but have used Vim for many years. rindolf Emacs + Evil mode makes a better vim marzy: does it support all Vim extensions? no, that’s why its better. it doesn’t come with a badly-designed scripting language!! marzy: well, it’s still not 100% compatible with vim. marzy: and Evil is an awful name. Sorry. "The only thing more evil than XSLT is XSLT edited with Emacs Evil mode." ;-) i think it’s a good name considering emacs and vi(m) rivalry marzy: of course, I’ve heard worse - coq and coccinelle. And then there’s this guy here who called his programming language Flua which reminds me of Flu and Influenza. rindolf: lol rindolf, flua IDE is not that bad to be fair (at least the little i tried ) dardevelin: didn’t say *it* was bad - I said the name was bad. dardevelin: and I could never get it running here. Problems with Py3 and PyQt. rindolf, oh that sucks... :/ dardevelin: yes. rindolf, yeah i know you didn’t said it was bad, just as gave you my opinion on it as a side note. sorry i should have made it more explicit :) Of course, Evil is not as bad a name as SLIME, which is another Emacs mode. rindolf, i had troubles with SLIME once and boy i got tired of fighting with it Reportedly it was also the nickname of an internal Microsoft version control system called SLM (that is now largely discontinued). ##programming Freenode A rose by any other name Selling Open Source Source Code just stumbled across another question. is there an open-source license that prevent anyone from making money off my code? codescience: no there isn’t. codescience: it stands against the open source definition. codescience: that would violate the spirit of what most people understand "open source" to mean codescience: people can sell copies of open source software or services related to it. hmmm, i understand codescience: see http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html I can legally sell you this copy of the Linux kernel...I can charge whatever you are willing to pay. Nothing in the license prevents this ssta: will you sell it to me for 5,000 USD? ;-) rindolf: sure ssta: how about for 3,000 USD? rindolf: tell you what, for $10,000 I’ll throw in a free copy of FreeBSD ssta: wow, sounds like a good deal. rindolf: hmm, 3000 is a bit low, I don’t think I could go that cheap ssta: heh. ssta: how much are you selling the source code of Apache 2.4 for? rindolf: oh, you can have that for free ssta: really? Sucker! rindolf: sure...but the build scripts you have to pay for ssta: OK. ssta: would you be willing to exchange the source of the Linux kernel for three copies of jQuery? I will even throw in a few free Dojo plugins. ssta: he already told us. rindolf: hmm, not sure I want jQuery rindolf: would you happen to have code for a halfway decent RDBMS? I think I could swap for that ssta: I have the source code for MySQL. Not sure if it’s half-decent. i run a mysql server. runs good enough for me rindolf: I use MySQL in production quite a lot. It has its flaws, but my use cases never seem to hit them ssta: OK. ssta: so will you exchange its source code for the Linux kernel? rindolf: sure ssta: sounds good. ssta: you can find the source code of MySQL here - http://www.mysql.com/ rindolf: you can get the Linux source from kernel.org ssta: thanks. ##programming Freenode Premium price for free (in either meaning) software. gcc warning flags rindolf, I got redirected to your gcc important flags page today and I think you may be missing a few things doomrobo: do you mean the one in the talk? doomrobo: which page are you referring to? rindolf, lemme see http://www.shlomifish.org/lecture/W2L/Development/slides/gcc/flags.html - heh, first Google hit for "gcc important flags" At least for me. yeah doomrobo: OK, I did not originate that page originally. OK doomrobo: and it served a certain purpose as material for slides to the Haifa Linux Club’s Welcome to Linux series. nice always found it funny that -Wall doesn’t turn on all of the warnings . o O ( gcc -Wno-really-I-mean-all ... ) -Wevery-warning-under-the-sun-and-then-some -W42 -Wchuck-norris -Wextra -whipped-cream and of course -WTF jrslepak: :-) -Worse -Worse-is-better -Wat -Whoops -S -Illy -Wabbit Heh. -Wascally-wabbit (which really needs to be the name of a future Ubuntu release) people reading this are probably just shaking their heads hey, at least it’s not -fallow-undecidable-instances ¬_¬ ##programming Freenode gcc -Whatever Ultra Compression does anyone happen to know what std::allocator.allocate() does when you try to allocate 0 bytes? I get a pointer back but I can’t tell what it’s pointing at and I can’t seem to find anything on the web that gives a definitive answer Why are you allocating zero bytes? tnzr: the same thing it always returns GeDaMo: we are implementing our own allocator for an assignment, and when asked what we should do if the user tries to allocate 0 bytes, the prof said to find out what std::allocator does and mimic that http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6065814/standard-compliant-custom-allocator oh snap, thanks GeDaMo :) GeDaMo: zero bytes are enough to hold the Complete Works of Shakespeare. Depends on how many monkeys you have to decompress it :P GeDaMo: heh. Of course, I defined a custom decompressor that emits the complete works of Shakespeare on empty input and uses gzip compression otherwise. It’s pretty large, though. redeemed: compress the decompressor using the same algo errr rindolf Billiard: OK. Billiard: heh. 0 bytes = a decompressor for the entire works of Shakespeare ##programming Freenode Shakespeare, compressed Ruby Tuesday Hi all. hi Hello Ruby Tuesday. goodbye ruby tuesday hello emerald thursdays! now i have to choose a precious stone for each day of the week, thanks this is going to take half the night sapphire Sundays Pearl Mondays. Diamond Saturdays. YES! diamond saturday definitely i thought the same thing i guess there's already a gemstone for every month, so this would be seen as kind of a rip-off maybe a metal for every day ##programming Freenode Sunny Diamonds Mac Server Either our mac server is sending out little electroshocks through his cage and into my foot or he is just vibrating really strange... Zepo: a mac server? rindolf: yeah, we have a Mac server running a VM with an Ubuntu server Zepo: hmm... interesting. rindolf: Most people react like "what the...?!" Zepo: next you'll tell me that you have an HP-UX Desktop. rindolf: I am not that crazy, my chef made this...thing... ##programming Freenode Using the right tool for the job Maths Education and Languages rindolf: How long have you got on the book? rindolf, did you check out the new game of thrones episode? Jude: no, I don't watch Game of Thrones. Jude: I did see this on Slashdot - http://yro.slashdot.org/story/13/03/31/1347248/hbo-says-game-of-thrones-piracy-is-a-compliment . Jude: quite encouraging. why Jude: what is encouraging? Jude: I mean that some television producers are having a clue about piracy. Jude: I think the MPAA is likely going to follow the lead of the RIAA and endorse the Internet. Jude: well, there's still a long way to go with even music online. rindolf: "How to win friends and..." cheeseduck: ah, that. Making slow progress in it. cheeseduck: I thought it was a book *I* was writing. Lately, I've been writing books and screenplays and stuff more than I've been reading them. :-D "I've been reading a lot of scripts lately." "You know, it's cheaper than going to the movies." cheeseduck: heh. cheeseduck: some people find the screenplays funny as they are. cheeseduck: they have good imagination. I always found the standard they are supposed to be written in weird. Kind of wasteful in space. cheeseduck: for other people, it ruins the experience. cheeseduck: yes, maybe. I see rindolf, did you catch the walking dead's finale? cheeseduck: I have something of my own - http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/projects/XML-Grammar/Fiction/ Jude: not familiar with "Walking Dead". Jude: horror drama - I have a soft stomach. Jude: I prefer humour or drama/humour or sci-fi/humour or sci-fi/humour/drama or stuff like that. k, sorry to have bothered you Jude: I watched three episodes of My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic, and so far - I'm game. Jude: you did not bother me. never seen it Jude: do you watch My Little Pony? Jude: ah, I love it so far. heard it can get quite rough more nudity and violence than Spartacus and game of thrones combined One episode involved a lot of songs, which I disliked. Jude: heh, LOL. Jude++ Jude: it's directed at little girls. Jude: so it's a pretty clean show. yeah I know I was kidding Jude: if you want incest and violence, then look no further than the Jewish bible. there are a lot of dubbing sections of the show to go with metal songs or violent scripts etc rindolf, I'm jewish Jude: reportedly, it was quite realism then (the Bible I mean). Jude: ah, nice. So am I. and I couldn't agree more I have to go watch game of thrones Jude: yes, you need to process the Bible a lot to get to the good stuff. will talk to you in an hour Jude: enjoy. yeah, in Israel we have to take bible classes in high school Maybe I'll prepare a fortune out of this conversation. and elementary school too Jude: I'm Israeli too. really? Jude: I live in Tel Aviv. where do you teach Jude: yes. me too.. Jude: I don't teach. don't tell me you live near Rabin sq. Jude: well, I teach stuff via blogging and Internet writing. Jude: no, but I go there often. Jude: I live in Gimmel. Ramat Aviv? Jude: yes. that's close to TAU do you study there? Jude: yes. CS? Jude: no, I just live with my parents. Jude: I graduated from EE from the Technion. cool Jude: http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/computers/education/opinion-on-the-technion/ that's your blog? Jude: it's my home site. cool Jude: a good old fashioned Web 1.0 site in modern clothing. Like valid HTML, modern CSS, some JS enhancements, etc. But still static HTML pages. I have some blogs on livejournal.com/etc. do you know a guy called Nimrod? Jude: there are many people called Nimrod - it's a common name. don't want to give him in on public chat Jude: not sure I know a Nimrod off hand. never mind then Jude: OK, feel free to PM. Jude: many Israeli names can get confusing. OK. Jude: I can easily come to Rabin sq. - there's a bus there from here. he's my brother, he lives close to you and he's also an open-source enthusiast I know there are plenty of them Jude: ah, that's great. I take them to uni on a daily basis I live right by Rabin sq. Jude: so you study in TAU? yeah Jude: TAU has tons of hot chicks. there are some Jude: there aren't a lot of people on the streets of Gimmel. Jude: so you study CS? no way maths Jude: ah, I see. Jude: maths... I know one or two nice looking girls, but I usually get put off by their personalities Jude: I think maths is taught wrong in several aspects. Jude: ah. I've only been attracted to one specimen of the female sex ever in my entire life Jude: ah, really? I dunno, I agree when you speak of high school maths I like university maths so far my professors are really nice Jude: well, there are a lot of girls studying more humane stuff. Jude: http://blogs.perl.org/users/shlomi_fish/2013/03/ann-my-transition-from-software-developer-to-writerentertaineramateur-philosopherinternet-celebrity.html I generally don't like people who study humane subjects (I don't consider philosophy to be as such though) Jude: I've made a transition from a mathematician to a software developer and now I'm more of a writer/entertainer/amateur-philosopher. you didn't like the way it was taught? Jude: like which way? Jude: you mean maths? yes Jude: well: 1. No pairwise work. Big mistake. 2. Need to memorise a lot of silly stuff. Why?? 3. Maybe allow some sloppiness. Make maths more humane. that's why you got philosophy maths can't afford to be sloppy There's something poetical about many maths' proofs. the intuitive ideas behind them are beautiful but intuition can be misleading that's why you have to be really strict Jude: yes, that's why I think we should now move into proof verifier realm. if you want your proof to be valid Jude: right. Jude: but I was once criticised for this - http://ladypine.livejournal.com/24574.html Jude: thing is - not everything should be strict when teaching. Jude: I agree that mathematical intuition can be misleading, but it's still a good thing to have. Jude: thing is I think many mathematicians now require a lot of dedication and selling their soul to the devil, which is turning them into http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Nemo -s. it's not a very formal proof Jude: when I studied EE most of my courses were with open material, and I could do pairwise work, which I enjoyed. but seems to hold Jude: yes. I guess you are right Jude: :-D that the concept is more important than the formalization but a lot of my professors agree with you and would give much more attention to grasping the important concept, and understanding intuition behind proofs Jude: I'm always right. Unless I claim that "A is not-A". But Chuck Norris would be right even then. lol Hah! A new Chuck Norris factoid. <3 it's been nice chatting with you, I really have to go now, I need to watch GoT and then go to bed and wake up in 4 hours Jude: my father and I now have an ongoing Chuck Norris meme. Jude: bye, have fun, and good night. rindolf, what's that Jude: what? the Chuck Norris meme Jude: well, we say stuff like "you're my most Chuck Norris dad." or "I taught Chuck Norris how to fight." It's a personal running joke. Well, a family-wide one. We have our own jargon. heh Most families do. I'm not close enough to any member of my family to do that Ah. talk to you later, ciao Bye. rindolf: Douglas Hofstadter gave a talk about how mathematicians aren't as rigorous as they claim to be and that they use a lot of analogical thinking Nisstyre-laptop: ah, OK. it was at the university of Toronto I missed it sadly though Nisstyre-laptop: ah. Nisstyre-laptop: was it filmed? but I can basically tell you what he said more or less rindolf: there was a webcast Nisstyre-laptop: OK. Nisstyre-laptop: ah. not sure if it can be accessed still Nisstyre-laptop: ah. <+Nisstyre-laptop> but if you read either GEB or I Am a Strange Loop you'll get it Nisstyre-laptop: I read GEB. Nisstyre-laptop: GEB was a nice book, but I knew a lot of what he was saying there. Nisstyre-laptop: I still enjoyed the drama stuff in the middle with Achilles, the Tortoise and their friends. rindolf: you had the idea of using PM as a metaphor for systems of thinking and the mind? because that's what the book is about Nisstyre-laptop: PM? Principia Mathematica the formal system constructed by Russell and Whitehead Nisstyre-laptop: I didn't think of it. Nisstyre-laptop: yes, I know. the entire book is his theory of consciousness and how there are levels of thinking Nisstyre-laptop: well, I read "I think, therefore I laugh" before I read GEB. you can be less of a thinking being, etc... Yes, he says that consciousness requires thinking in loops, or self-reflection. Well, it's an informal theory of consciousness. it requires what he calls a strange loop and there can be many levels to it more levels == what we think of as more human or more conscious beings so PM actually is able to self reflect to an extent although it requires a human to interpret it I believe, that creating artificial intelligence/artificial consciousness won't be easy to do, will require a lot of complex code, and will likely be faulty (have its own will, make mistakes, not run as quickly as more specialised code, etc.). Nisstyre-laptop: yes. depends what you mean by AI there are several different definitions the first human like robot will be build in Japan, the first artificial intelligence in the US heh hahaha the church-turing hypothesis would seem to imply it's possible, at least in principle to create "strong" AI although I intensely dislike that term since it tries to say that any system of thinking that doesn't work exactly the same as a human one isn't AI which is BS you guys are all worried about intelligence, I think that will be the easy part. Then comes the important stuff: giving it a sense of humor. so there was the idea that consciousness is associated with information flow, and that "more" information flow is "More" consciousness, a continuum like gravity... but gravity can produce a qualitatively different effect past a certain level (black holes..) so the "loop" is where information flow becomes qualitatively different ? doomlord: have you read GEB? it would be the ability a system has to observe itself, and encode the system itself in the system in other words self reflection I don't know many people who can be truly accused of having their own thoughts i don't think so but i have some related quotes from somewhere but can a system only approximate itself Principia Mathematica has that ability can a computer emulate itself... as Gödel showed you can encode formulas in PM as formulas in PM doomlord: yes but to what practical extent what is that supposed to mean? nature has many 'feedback loops' involving information physical limitations result in a hard limit of feedback loops what's GEB, links? if you point a camera at a mirror eventually it will "stop" doomlord: it's a book Gödel, Escher, Bach ah Google reveals but the sequel is more clear on what it's about I Am A Strange Loop OK sounds interesting doomlord: anyway, if you nest implementations of a computer in a computer eventually there will be a limit imposed by the physical situation i.e. the memory and processor speed only for limited thinkers it's like entropy, only for people who are afraid to think :P but don't physical systems also have practical limitations yes but those are not what we imagine them to be if only we knew the meaning of life, that would make things so much easier how? I think the whole "AIs spawning AIs" dream is not a good strategy for doing software dev. I think programming is here to stay. It's not like humans can efficiently do what a dedicated polynomial time program can. even humans get programmed, lol doomlord: yes. that new immortality project had some interesting videos doomlord: a large part of human technology is mental. doomlord: in fact, we can no longer survive without our mental technology. We couldn't for thousands of years. oh but we can just need a favorable environment cultural template = human OS not mine gde33: you can survive without your mental technology? Even without conceptual thought? not sure what you mean isn't that what all the other species do? i saw some TED talk trying to explain the difference between Chinese and western spending/saving habits in the way the language encourages people to think about time supposedly Chinese language makes it harder to think of past, present, future separately languages can be really weird all languages have the word "argument" but some want it to have additional meanings, I believe in China an argument is equal to disobedience. lol huh? in English it is a kind of fight 争 is a dispute 争论 is an argument or debate I cant think of good examples, I used to know a girl who knew many languages she showed me how some things are badly broken in some languages is it true Japanese can't say "no", they have to repeat the question in negative.. that is what we were told when learning but they must have a word for no surely doomlord: there is "Hai" for Yes and "iie" for no so its just impolite to say "no" i guess is living in Japan doomlord: you lose context... doomlord: in English you don't repeat hah no but in Japanese you do gde33: depends on the person... my mother and father thought nothing of explaining politeness to me and will happily talk overtop me when I am speaking gde33: I only know (Modern) Hebrew, English, some mostly forgotten Written Arabic, and some French (which I'm now trying to regain). I have also run into the same from Chinese, Japanese, American, European AND African people I have met gde33: well, I also know bits of other languages like Spanish, Russian, German, etc. gde33: I know that in Hebrew we have compulsive genders for objects, so we don't care about phrasing sentences in a gender-neutral form, which is an English obsession. gde33: I think it is parodied in this book - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinny_Legs_and_All_%28novel%29 (great one, BTW - taught me a lot). heh languages with sexism built in.. gender all the way through some languages are also more emotional than others Italians are hilarious so much enthusiasm it makes you think something is going on gde33: spoken or written and the correct manner for if you are addressing "up/peer/down" the social ladder with regards respect... yes Belxjander: does that apply to many words? ##programming Freenode “I need an Open Source Something…” I need open source remote desktop in j2me user2013: hi. user2013: you again? I need open source remote desktop in j2me I need open source remote desktop in j2me user2013: we heard you. user2013: I need an open-source, free rocket launcher in either VBScript or Batch! can do atamagawarui: heh. atamagawarui: I prefer it in AutoCad's AutoLisp. VBScript 3+ years experience, team can perform your task quickly, for 300 dollars PayPal atamagawarui: or in PDP-10 Assembly. rindolf: haha i guarantee if you put that on freelancer offers will come sksupp: lol, to whom are you going to outsource the task? i know i'll assign it as a project for this Java class i TA ##programming Freenode No problem there… Solving the Halting Problem o0elise0o: mv seems pretty clear to me i cant think of anything Linux doesn't have aside from stability with a GUI o0elise0o: There are lots of obscure commands, but mv is not one of them. no i mean mv makes sense o0elise0o: Linux cannot solve the halting problem. o0elise0o: but neither can Windows. but have no cls with every other command shortened seems odd to me Linux can solve the halting problem: kill -9 "$pid" && echo "Halts" ##programming Freenode Cutting the Gordian Knot What to do about Becoming Enraged By Java is there away i can basically do if (input.equals("1" || "2" || "3")) { swineflu: if (input.equals("1") || input.equals("2"). swineflu: Perl 6 has junctions for this. swineflu: in which language? in Java also that's uglyyyyyy then rindolf's way is the way to do it swineflu: case from Java 7 on, before that just use ifs rindolf: is perl 6 out of beta yet? Znoosey: well, they released Rakudo Star, but it's not very usable. ah rindolf: do you know when it will be done? Znoosey: I wouldn't recommend people to use Perl 6, but its junctions are still a cool feature and there's a Perl 5 implementation at https://metacpan.org/module/Perl6::Junction . Java enrages me You should stop implementing the Enrageable interface, swineflu A common rookie mistake Enrageable interface = swing Instead you need a HarmoniousAndConstructiveReactionAccessorFactoryDAOInjector Object You get it by incentivizing an EJB SproinkJunk In your supplication gridwork of choice ##programming Freenode Programmer Programming Programmer Misbehaving Printers damn printer... it's made like 4 fubared copies jamming all the time, having to remove an accordion-shaped paper each time turns out there was another sheet jammed, but it was hidden and the printer wasn't detecting it i wonder if printers will still jam paper in the year 3000 maybe it's a paradox of physics a fluke in nature I think its more down to the fact printer companies have been milking their cash cow dry, £10 in R&D each year. etc. maybe some day paper will become obsolete, then there will be no problem any more There are still employees at my job who would prefer to print an email out, read it and then reply to the email. I don't have much hope for that dream pulse :P that's just stupid :P pulse, how in the hell would printers work BETTER in the future? the more intelligent they become, the more stupid things they'll do! the machine rebellion will start with printers, it's a known fact I suppose the equivalent of paper jam with a 3d printer can get really messy heh "we cannot access the printer, it is inside a large blob of solidified plastic" "the first maintenance team went in, but that was 2 days ago, and we are preparing a rescue mission" maybe they could produce the paper in the process maybe they'll print you a hologram lol koollman, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_goo cousteau: yes, but that one would auto-reproduce, which is much more scary ;) although I guess a very advanced printer could print itself, it's the goal of reprap-like systems nothing a giant EMP wave wouldn't fix koollman: heh. maybe the 3D printer accidentally gets programmed with printing a 3D copy of itself, and that copy turns out to be already programmed with the same program haha 3D printer fork bomb! :) Heh. Ah, replicators. remembers actually using a postscript 'bomb' ...as an unrelated note, the :(){... forkbomb doesn't work on the `dash` interpreter it says that : is not a valid function name so you can fool your friends by trying to convince them that the forkbomb doesn't work cousteau: that's not to hard to modify, although the result will be less obscure. or is it that it doesn't support recursion ? koollman, replace : with F and you have a working one OK, so just the character is forbidden as a name. a bit sad or with _ _ works, it's still quite hard to read :) with _, if you tilt your head, it looks like a toilet on top of a tree that's some vivid imagination lol or a chair or something pulse: shell programming may have unexpected side-effects ;) like waking up in a mental asylum ? :) nah. But I do remember making very bad jokes about zombie processes, reapers and clones hmm I woke up as a sysadmin, too. that may partially qualify lol ##programming Freenode I blame Gutenberg What ##programming is all about? hey christos_: hi. hello we have topic here? christos_: /topic christos_: Ummm... programming? :-O christos_: anyway, we discuss programming and other stuff. christos_: the general topic seems to be type safety >_< Znoosey: and Java questions. Help with Java homework. rindolf: ah yes From people who cannot indent correctly. rindolf: hahaha Znoosey: :-) rindolf: the most amusing was the other day, when some guy posted his code on one line in here, so i asked him to pastebin it, and he did... still all in one line Znoosey: heh. Znoosey: Java golf! ##programming Freenode How well do Humans Execute Loops? ashmew2: hi. hello rindolf . ashmew2: what's up? Sorry about the other day, my internet was acting weird. seems stable now ashmew2: ah, that's OK. :-) rindolf, just fixed issues that cropped up with a new router. Fixes the internet :D I'll never forgive you what's up with you? RangerMauve, while(!forgiven) ask_forgiveness(); :P ashmew2: I'm fine. Looking for a misplaced E-mail. ashmew2: infinite loop! Let's hope that's not an infinite loop. :P ashmew2: run it in a background process/thread. hahaha ashmew2: :-) not necessarily infinite, we don't know how the variable forgiven is modified by the called function :P :P ashmew2: well, this is pseudocode. ashmew2: It could be potentially infinite if I die RangerMauve, don't let the requests be pending then :D for the sake of infinite rise in universal entropy. Maybe I want it to happen. Manye I'm some sort of existential anarchist well, Anarchy, no matter how inviting, doesn't really lead to fruitful consequences. But i guess that's individualistic at best. 2deep4me ##programming Freenode FizzBees Oh, God, FizzBuzz discussion. rindolf: Which framework do you think is best for FizzBuzz? I'm thinking Spring, Hibernate and Struts, with jQuery for the user-facing parts, of course To properly print the lines, you see Also FizzBuzz in C# is hopelessly out of date ducks and grabs popcorn fizzbuzz can be a challenging exercise if you require an exotic language like Chef you know what would be cool? A language that has an implementation for all such trivial programming exercises in the standard lib. Just imagine how confused a noob programmer would be when he couldn't just fizzBuzz() in standard C to solve the exercise... :P atoi is a nice exercise though adsc: write one, become the hero that beginners need call it nooblib become famous ##programming Freenode FizzBees Crypto Time Exchange Today I got the idea for "crypto-time" similar to crypto-currency - BitSeconds. Not sure how it will work. What would the benefit of having lots of BitSeconds be? rindolf: Ah. rindolf: you are enabling pedophiles, terrorists, and drug dealers rdevilla: wat rdevilla: heh. and time thieves especially time thieves think of all the time laundering Reminds me of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momo_%28novel%29 rdevilla: Time thieves? You mean like those silly Facebook games that steal your time? pyon: the Steam sale has taken up far too much of my holiday already ._. rdevilla: Heh. :-) ##programming Freenode Be back in a BitSecond… Fine Literature (about svn.php.net) Yay! svn.php.net is back up. olamachon: <olamachon> Yay! svn.php.net is back up. <doomlord__> xeno_ actually seeing rust on ==> that's great. rindolf: ? olamachon: sorry, I meant that it's great that svn.php.net is up. rindolf: haha ya. Pretty exciting, might write a short novella about it. olamachon: heh. The Svniliion: The trials and tribulations of a programmer’s journey to get information about PHP “The day when svn.php.net returned.” -- by olamachon olamachon: heh. rindolf: Ah that's it. So much better. rindolf: Hopefully I'll get like a 10 sec clip in some svn documentary on the history channel rindolf: you *know* that the people working on svn.php had to have an offline backup olamachon: I like your title too. rindolf: "And it went down, and that is how I knew it was the beginning of the end" olamachon: heh. rindolf: because otherwise nobody could remember which way the arguments go for anything olamachon: “I sulked in my suffering. It was the kind of suffering that tore your heart to shreds. A programmer’s suffering. Nothing could equal it.” XMPPwocky: ya I was thinking about asking my fellow ner... connoisseurs.... if they might have a backup rindolf: "a lonely life full of 1's and 0's" olamachon: heh. rindolf: I smell the beginning of an organically grown IRC novel olamachon: this would definitely make a best-seller. olamachon: heh. olamachon: maybe I'll prepare a convo log out of it - http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/sharp-programming.html hahahah olamachon: “I remembered the happy days when I was using the svn server back when it was at its prime. Running. Functioning. These days seem so distant now.” LOL. rindolf: "Soon I realized we were at a turning point in a cultural revolution" olamachon: hmm... you can do "better" than that. olamachon: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/stories/ - I actually wrote some novellas and screenplays-of-sorts here. rindolf: right right, novellas. I was thinking more like I was the glue guy in a documentary rindolf: So I was trying to be super cliché olamachon: ah. olamachon: so was I. rindolf: I like the ironic cliché where it actually means nothing rindolf: its just all good sounding filler “I looked at the clock on my desktop. Every second seemed like a century. What will I do without the svn server online? What can I do? What can I do about it? Who am I asking all these questions?” olamachon: I wonder where I first read clichés such as that. Maybe it was someone parodying them. rindolf: "Then I had an existential epiphany. What is SVN? What am I? What are we doing in this universe? This foray into the metaphysical was cut short by a brief glance at the clock. It's 5 o'clock. f**k this s**t, I'm getting drunk." olamachon: heh. olamachon: do you actually write? rindolf: never olamachon: ah, I see. rindolf: is it that obvious? haha olamachon: you may be a natural. rindolf: I wrote like an essay or two in university, they were like 2 pages haha olamachon: ah, so little? rindolf: I read a copious amount of literature olamachon: ah, OK. olamachon: OK, I'll keep this conversation. rindolf: Perhaps that has a prolific effect on my penchant for the perverse verbosity? olamachon: and put it on that page. olamachon: yes, maybe. rindolf: Sure. I feel like we may be getting a bit off-topic here olamachon: yes, well, svn.php.net is back - that's what important. Seize the svn. Carpe svn! rindolf: Nice. I see what you did there. I am literally doing that as fast as I can Well, not sure the Latin is right. carpe is the seize part "Occupy svn.php.net!" diem is day olamachon: yes, I know. But maybe svn has to be conjugated. oh was carpe diem an idiom? carpe svnus? Carpe svni? ^ Carpe svna? Carpe svnis? Not sure. My Latin is weak. I know the plural of Pentium is Pentia. olamachon: "Carpe diem" means something like "live/enjoy this day" pyon: Seize the day Yeah. Well, carpe meant quite a few things. In Latin at least. This is unbelievably slow. On a 1gbps connection, PHP docs have been downloading for 15 minutes so far http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpe_diem olamachon: I see. I'm trying to grab it all incase I need it later, but with my luck it will drop out again before the 1 file I need ##programming Freenode We’re not novelists, we just play ones on IRC What’s in a name? gcc `xml2-config --cflags` -g lib.c -o lib `xml2-config --libs` Rad-: you called your executable "lib"? It's a common name for directories. ...yes i'll change it later i just got lazy Rad-: ah. Rad-: 1. Are you using version control? 2. Do you have automated tests? This is the hardest part of programming - choosing a name for the dev directory. no, no? Rad-: well, you should on both accounts. Binary_Digit++ i hate that part Binary_Digit: uh, src? Binary_Digit: projects i thought he meant the project name folder src is fine if you're only ever going to write one program ah, for the directory where the projects will be! I always name it "Projects" all your programs are called 'Projects'? Shouldn't you use a top-level qualifier? Cool. lol Binary_Digit: no, the directory where the projects are For instance, if you're making a library called "Jail", have the top-level folder named "Jail"? So the namespaces below would be "Jail.Whatever"? Binary_Digit: I always think about some name when starting a project rindolf: well I'm writing the tests. my program is a proof of working functions... well it's supposed to be anyway they: yup Q: How do I do <foo>? A: easy, just use Projects to do the first bit, then switch to Projects to do the next bit, and pipe the output through Projects just names a project's directory based on the name of the project jrslepak, so you still have the same problem i find it hard to come up with project names that don't suck Denommus solves it by calling every project 'Projects' Binary_Digit: what problem do I have? But I prefer to find more original names I'm afraid I'm going to pick some well-known name, then i'll get sued and will have to walk around in a barrel jrslepak, the problem of picking a name for your project Binary_Digit: stop putting words on my mouth, I hate it Binary_Digit: one of the two hard things in programming Denommus, oh, I think you'll survive. Especially if that graph is anything to go by. But all right, I apologise. benzrf, the other being actually getting to work? Ah, bring back florin5 I have a project for him A project name generator! Only problem is: what to call it? project name namer Rad-: they do? Why? Binary_Digit: heh, it should be self-hosting. pulse: 'two hard things in programming cache invalidation and naming things' hmm or maybe it was 'in compsci' benzrf: '...and off by one errors'. well known quote though rindolf: huehuehue i saw that one yeah, those are tricky Christ i hate fencepost errors they get me every time -.- benzrf: I had a lot of them in a recent Project Euler problem. I think I shall call my latest project Bernard. Or possibly Saskatchewan. Binary_Digit, i find you could develop all sorts of names from fruit names Rad-: well, you can use them for your own personal use. have a timer project? call it pineapple timer rindolf: :( makes it sound fresh and exciting Oh yeah - Apple - or Blackberry - or Raspberry - or Apricot I don't suppose any of those are taken tomatomation :D stands for tomato automation I suppose the only way out is to pick a good name *first*, and then decide what would be the best program to fit that name. E.g: Project Turnip could be a Turing machine for kids Binary_Digit: amazing yeah, I know - I think I'm too tired for IRC right now, talking nonsense ##programming Freenode Software naming discussions good jokes maketh Two men sharing frustrations with their hair. FFS my hair never looks good it's getting ridiculous fuck this hair NBP: my hair is a disaster area too. NBP: it grows in all directions and grows quickly, and it's always out of shape. When I brush it it looks weirder. NBP: heh, two guys discussing hair. mine doesn't grow in some parts any more but where it does grow it looks terrible NBP: ah. NBP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8cDbj8mLKg - the Ape of Death has hair problems too. NBP: that's my favourite part out of The Mighty Boosh. ##programming Freenode Having a bad hair life Trolling konverse the Troll Macuser: I Went to an anime/manga con - https://twitter.com/shlomif/status/492341211827404800 roflcon gde33: you can use AdBlockPlus. that doesn't work, with a central server they have to pay a lot for hosting This guy is hilarious. rindolf! I have to watch advertisements to make the centralized control work because it doesn't yeah this "service" konverse: who is? meanwhile the tubes are so fast that the high-definition torrent is finished before I can tab to the client uhhuhuhu?? oh I said torrent *shrug* Macuser: BTW, do you know iJustine on YouTube/etc.? She's awesome. you are assuming I'm not uploading There are other business models for Web revenue - https://plus.google.com/+ShlomiFish/posts/MRLntf3xu5Y ahh the greed based garbage interwebs What else rindolf? gde33: greed? konverse: what? konverse: I don't understand you. Am I trolling you? Sorry if I interrupted. just because you do things for strangers for free doesn't mean other strangers aren't doing things for you for free konverse: please be more coherent. konverse: not at all you could just, you know, work for your money? konverse: vague person is vague. Heh. We're marking tertiaries. I'm glad. <perlbot> rindolf: vague question is really, really vague, in fact it's so fucking vague that you can't even caption a cat with it because the cat would DIE OF VAGUE rindolf: So as is robust to robots? konverse: find some place else to troll. Hah! Got you. Where have my poor fingers gone? Somewhere in the sewers! Bwahahahaha. konverse: I hope they get caught there and you'll have to live with the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles who will kick the ass out of you. OOooh. konverse: them and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megan_Fox . Touchy. Did you have to man that? Access violated @ that insult konverse: man? Yah mon. konverse: yeh money! Well, there ya go. Humanity at its' finest. konverse: money talks, bullshit walks, and GNU awks! yeh boi, freeze! how low can you go? - Public Enemy ft. Anthrax Well deserved credit, mon. I'm curious Konverse Are you even a programmer? konverse: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/humanity/ - «Humanity - The Movie» konverse: what basic do you write in? I do know the basics of some langs. Compared to this wumpus, I have more experience than even what kind of taste his art is. gde33: he writes in basic trolling English. There goes more credit. +1. Bitcoin talker. konverse: I'm not worthy! I'm not worthy! I'm not worth! erects a giant status of konverse and worships it. Your holiness! Your godliness! bows in front of the statue Your ChuckNorrisness! wait, status* wei2912: also kiss its feet. your status glorifies us! the only interpreter should be hardware design language, then we should go back to the cartridge system glorious leader we will follow you for the rest of your life! your status shall be in our hearts! wei2912: yes. wei2912: heh. It's not over rindolf. Soon, there'll be butterflies. Then there'll be birds and cats wraunching at each other. http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/facts/Summer-Glau/ - Summer Glau > Chuck Norris. (next day: Status changed to: "these idiots engraved my status, now it won't automatically update" I'm pretty sure. You have something planned? konverse: your SummerGlau-ness! rindolf: do you make a lot of money with your website? konverse: nothing is over until either or both of us are dead! D. E. D. Dead! gde33: not a lot yet. Yes. Wanna race? I'll play tag first. You're it. eats the tag. Om nom nom nom. Delicious. Here's a tag for you - <br class="foo" /> It's an XHTML tag. That's rhetorical rindolf. You should have type casted. rindolf: oh that will be sure to make things easy! Why the long face??? :< http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Muppets-Show-TNI/Harry-Potter.html - Cookie Monster as Dumbledore 2. Ah. Just a frame. A portrait. We're there any fleas? rindolf: You're pathetic. Period. konverse: I am pathetic. humans are pathetic konverse: I perfected patheticness to an art-form. I won't go for stats, 'cause I can already tell by just a lift of a knob, I can twist things around. konverse: my patheticness is unmatched even by Chuck Norris' patheticness. ZadYree: ewwwww! ZadYree: what's up? yo rindolf :) Well, trying to convince myself it's time to code ^^ ZadYree: how's life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness today? ZadYree: Stop! Coding time! Hehehe What if I do this? ><````'i> j-------\p ZadYree: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo - Stop! Hammer Time. konverse: ASCII art? konverse: you have to wrap it in a cdata section rindolf, hehehe! Oh yeah! You're so obvious rindolf. I guess the wait watchers have no idea. ZadYree: meet konverse - he's my target of counter-trolling. konverse: s/wait/weight/ rindolf: Guess what? I'm trolling your website. I'll go and rate it. konverse: go ahead. Make my day! troll day is best day OOOOoooooh. konverse: any publicity is good publicity. Like, how you started the alpha? konverse: alpha? konverse: alpha of what? ZadYree: heh. Nm. ZadYree: "It's a good day to troll!" konverse: whatever. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yf7MT1p1VNI - whatever. rindolf, :) ##programming Freenode May the best troll win! The Round Trip Delay of Approaching a Girl protist: I realised Sarah Michelle Gellar starred in the same show as Robin Williams. They played a father and daughter. rindolf: you are obsessed with her :p And the father divorced her mother and left her mother to raise her on her own, kinda like SMG in real life. protist: I *iz* obsessed with her. protist: she was one of my first loves. rindolf: haha protist: I was recently obsessed with Jennifer Lawrence too - I like the alpha female/insurgent/antagonist/rebel type of girls. protist: over at the Technion , I kinda hit on a girl with a nose ring who coloured her hair black, but she turned out to already have a boyfriend. protist: since then I realised I should be more honest and direct and also reduce the round-trip/time-to-market delay. rindolf: round-trip/time-to-market delay? rindolf: and a lot of girls will just say they have a boyfriend :p...and sometimes they do it to test you, because oddly they are only interested in a guy who persists in spite of the fake boyfriend protist: Yeah you might not wanna mention ROI [= "Return On Investment"] when you're asking a girl on a date... rindolf: but sometimes it is lack of interest...and sometimes they really do have a boyfriend Jck_true: what do you mean? :p Jck_true: heh. Jck_true: I'm doing the monogamy thing at the moment Jck_true++ # Made me laugh. "What's your favourite position? CTO!" protist: Wouldn't it be easier to simply say "not interested, bye"? protist: I mean, in the case where they aren't interested. pyon: When do you ever remember girls being simple? The Freaking FCC :) protist: True that. pyon: and sometimes they may tell you they have a boyfriend...and actually have one...but will still sleep with you pyon: they might tell you just so you know that this is supposed to be discrete lol pyon, nothing is simple with/about women :D hey rindolf protist: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=sharp-xkcd-programming-languages-sex-talk - Haskell Sex. rindolf: i saw that when you linked it before :) <vendu> pyon, nothing is simple with/about women :D ==> lies! Just read "Women for dummies" and you're set! rindolf: lol hehe =) ffs HikaruBG: hi, no idea. Svetlana: hi. Svetlana: what's wrong? Svetlana: I hope you were not too offended by our sex talk or pseudo-sex talk here. We're not sexist - we just play ones in real life. Svetlana, what is ffs? Well, there's a difference between sexist and sexualised. HikaruBG: "FFS = for fuck's sake". No, I'm not offended at the conversation. I am offended at how lame work I'm doing at setting focus and priorities, though. I am trying to get mediawiki running but in fact I'm not sure it's a good idea for me to do so or what I would be working on. thanks rindolf, i have learned something new today .... that early in the morning :) Svetlana, just take a 15 and step out from the office. Then figure all priorities out. How do you define "take a 15"? 15 milliseconds vendu: hi 15 minutes ... :) clean your head a bit fresh air Svetlana: yes, maybe take a walk. Svetlana: ah, I'm glad you're not offended. on another hand, Svetlana, where are you trying to deploy mediawiki? Well, boys will be boys (and girls will be girls). ##programming Freenode “Baby, we’re so direct, we need to be on the same subnet!” Life According To Valentine In my imagination, my concept at the time of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Michelle_Gellar , who was a relatively wild and polyamorous girl (but still an awesome one) decided to duplicate herself and then said "I am going to call my new self 'Valentine'". So she gets duplicated and her duplicate then says "So I'm Valentine, right?" does polyamorous mean a slut? njcomsec: well, not exactly. njcomsec: thing is - she was very picky about which guys she got involved with. But if she slept with you once, you don't need to worry about it happening again. Is it not possible to have a fixed, small but non-singleton set of romantic partners? pyon: what does that mean? i wouldn't worry about it :) in fact i would worry she might NOT want to again pyon i believe that is called open relationship i am open to this idea but so far i cant even find one nice girl who will date me so this is the first step i have this problem where if i sleep with someone i usually don't want to ever again that's cute rindolf: A singleton set is a set with exactly one element. A small, non-singleton set of romantic partners would be, for example, having two or three romantic partners, but not having sex with arbitrary people. Also , Miranda Kerr recently bragged about all the great sex she's been getting with various willing men after being separated from her husband (= Orlando Bloom). I say - all the power to her. pyon: ah. pyon: well, she had a fixed (But often growing or getting reduced) set of those. rindolf: Well... if it is often growing or shrinking, it is not fixed. o0elise0o: try costumes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJgYxWhDDWc pyon: ah. pyon: well, if her lovers had entered a relationship, she stopped sleeping with them. pyon: at least for the duartion of the relationship. rindolf: Ah! I imagined a short students' film about Valentine Gellar's life. It starts with showing her riding a bus and then there are the immortal words "I used to be Sarah Michelle Gellar". And Valentine had a steady boyfriend and also studied for a Ph.D. Well, she's a professor now. Anyway, at one point she visits her and Sarah's mother, who admits that while she knows that Valentine is technically her daughter, she causes her so few troubles and is so great, that she has a hard time thinking of her as her daughter - she's more like a younger friend. rindolf: you are spoiling the whole movie! gde33|2: heh, it's not a real film. you underachiever! I say, make it so And then she visits a guy and sees that his room is in disarray and after she queries him for this he says "Ah, yes, Sarah was here last night. We had an awesome time." So Valentine says: "She couldn't have been! She stayed up late at a benefit and went to bed past 1 AM exhausted." . So he thinks for a moment and says: "So it wasn't her! No biggie." rindolf: are you fluffy? KAROLINA: no, I'm Fluttershy. rindolf: What is a fluffershy? And there's also a part where the original SMG and Valentine recall some memories from their mutual past together. JamesNZ are you fluffy? KAROLINA: s/ffer/tter/ rindolf: i don't understand you KAROLINA: Nope. KAROLINA: Fluttershy is the sensitive pony in My Little Pony- http://mlp.wikia.com/wiki/Fluttershy rindolf: but i like Fluffle betteR!? KAROLINA: what is fluffle? rindolf: Google Fluffle! and then go to pictures ##programming Freenode “I used to be Sarah Michelle Gellar” How to win over a young boy in a pretend gun fight. thecha: hi, what's up? not much. I am running my trisquel gnu/Linux from an usb now and you? thecha: I've been redditting and twittering. thecha: and I went on a walk now. hi rindolf thecha: I met a father with two children. he scolded them. thecha: I asked him for their names and he said "why does it matter?" :-( pulse: hi. I also saw a lady sitting on a bench with two Pekinese dogs - one male and one female. they barked at me. Maybe she was afraid of me (their owner I mean). dogs bark at everything I also saw some bird watchers in the park earlier in the morning. ezrios: some dogs are amazingly calm. ezrios: I once met a huge Caucasian Shepherd dog who was less than one years old and called "Rambo" who was super-calm. His owner was also very friendly. a super-calm Rambo eh cool story bro They say the dog and its owner resemble each other. epitamizor: every story is cool with the right attitude. epitamizor: http://www.reddit.com/r/TMNT/comments/2d9fo7/postrelease_movie_discussion_thread_2/ck3khga - see this. ezrios: yes , amazing. ezrios: Rambo was the epitome of a tough all powerful super-muscular anti-geeky warrior/action-hero. ezrios: but the fact of the matter is that the best combat warriors in the world are: 1. Not very muscular. 2. Geeks. http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/philosophy/putting-all-cards-on-the-table-2013/DocBook5/putting-all-cards-on-the-table-2013/best_warriors.html OK i will try the dog probably ws being aggressive because the owners mood was affecting him the owner probably was being hostile so the dog followed suit and the guy with the kids should have just said the names instead of being a dick about it you go for walks often? thecha: yes, I go for walks a lot. thecha: yes, this father should learn some things after fatherhood. thecha: the children were nice. Oh! and on the way upstairs there was a very young boy with a toy gun and I pretended to wage an imaginary war with him. He enjoyed it. rindolf-> who won the imaginary shoot out? thecha: he did I think. thecha: I let him win. thecha: he seemed to have enjoyed it. thecha: children can be so smart. i don't think age has anything to do with smartness thecha: and it helped brighten my day. pulse: yes. pulse: I have actually grown smarter with age. I've grown wiser. not much smarter pulse: ah. pulse: what's your distinction? pulse: I've grown wiser too. smart is the ability to calculate things fast wise is the ability to live your life ;) pulse: there are more parameters to intelligence than doing fast calculations. i guess there's certain correlation between the two pulse: yes. i know. there's different types of intelligence but most types boil down to two things. calculations and speed pulse: ah. IQ? any kind of intelligence IQ is a sort of generalization of all types pulse: see https://twitter.com/shlomif/status/495252148775436288 - «Forget #IQ! #Sloppy → #Confident → #Smart!! #TeamGrimmie #confidence #competence #PublishOrPerish» but it's also stupid rindolf, hmm what am i supposed to see there :P i still don't know how twitter works what are those hashtags supposed to be rindolf: Meh, sloppiness is just sloppiness. rindolf: One can be flexible without lowering one's own standards. rindolf you can't let the enemy win thecha: yes, bring the Delta Team with Chuck Norris, Sylvester Stalone, Arnold Schwarzenegger, and.. Summer Glau (!♥:-)) against this boy. there shall be blood tonight! you really are obsessed with this Summer Glau ##programming Freenode We need backups now! He’s killing us. Spreading the love. aidanh: I've solved Project Euler #141 yesterday and learned a valuable lesson about excessive forking to processes and capturing their output. rindolf: Indeed >_> Namely: it kills performance. Snake2k: where do you live? rindolf: I need to start doing Project Euler again :| Snake2k: ah. Snake2k: we can become friends there. rindolf: Northern Virginia, pretty much a mile or two away from D.C. Snake2k: ah. rindolf: We can still be friends >_> Snake2k: heh. Snake2k: I don't friend Northern Virginians! Snake2k: ;-) does "gcc -Wall hug_rindolf.c -o hug --std=c11" does "./hug" Snake2k: southern virginians on the other hand... gets "Segmentation Fault (core dumped)" rindolf: Why? :'( we're nice and shit :( Snake2k: heh, I'm just joking. Snake2k: I'm cool with Northern Virginians. rindolf: ‘It kills performance’ — depends on your definition of ‘process’. POSIX processes are huge, but green threads in e.g. Haskell or Erlang are usually very cheap and can be used without much consideration. has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) Twey: I Was talking about POSIX processes. Twey: I captured the output of "factor" for convenience, and it proved to be a major slowdown. Twey: ERLANG! Munctional! Parallelism! rindolf: but you hurt ma feelz :'( Snake2k: heh. Snake2k, just commit violence against him it'll fix everything and if it doesn't you're not using enough violence Tawre: good idea :| hugs the living rindolf out of rindolf I wonder if normal algebra would be fine with you using lambda functions. sends 1e12 virtual kisses to Northern Virginia. Or curried functions. kisses rindolf 0e13 times. guys get a room. Tawre: heh. Myrl: we got ##programming ! this is getting weird... It's a chat-room! I hug... I don't do virtual kisses... slithers away... is all creeped out and shit... s/kisses/hugs/ Snake2k, well, we can kill it "hugs" too if you want ;) slithers back Tawre: <______________< rindolf: ‘Parallelism’ — er… yeah. That's what you wanted :þ we can do parallel hugs too ##programming Freenode Baseless rebase is fun Base in general is fun. 3rd base isn't bad I mean come on man, are you a base-head or not?! 4th base is fun Base 16 is kinda neato is all about that base. high-fives rindolf sir_galahad_ad: http://www.fivefingertees.com/all-about-that-base-no-rebels-t-shirt.html You can't use base jokes any more, cause all your base are belong to us. ##programming Freenode 3 Years Experience in Swift lol at people who are looking to hire people who have 3 years experience of Swift. i have 1 year of experience with Swift and I've developed a minor depression in that time should i sue oracle? I love how everyone who wrote three lines of code for the Linux kernel these days can now refer to his or her code running on things somewhere other than Earth to make themselves sound good, now. _blizzy_: heh. I have 4 years experience with Swift and 10 years experience of Node. hire me. _blizzy_: wasn't Swift created less than a year ago? rindolf, that's the joke. _blizzy_: yes. oh, you mean Swift as in apple node wasn't around also 10 years ago. _blizzy_: yes. rindolf, oh. https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/320ujx/why_cant_programmers_program_is_print_100_to_1/ could they choose a more stupid name I tripped on that problem. _blizzy_: If you don't have thirty years of experience with Java, you don't qualify. only if they called it PHP 2 maybe it would be stupider print 100 -> 1, but start with (for i=0 _blizzy_: «Chuck Norris has 50 years of proven experience in PHP/MySQL/Java. Each.» rindolf, Chuck Norris made a new sorting algorithm. roundhouse sorting. chuck norris once outrun himself 2003. I hope no one attempts to crash my app. c: rindolf: chuck norris can compile any randomly generated code with GCC wei2912: :-) That's impressive. GCC sometimes doesn't even compile standards compliant code. chuck norris can roll a joint while swimming CN slammed a revolving door. pulse: They could have chosen a much stupider name, like ‘Go’. Twey, or Java lmao I kid. Twey, well at least Go doesn't have any bad connotations ... as far as i know GO is actually decent. resolves to call his next project ‘The’ Java isn't a stupid name. It was just ruined by association with the language. when i hear Swift, all i can think of is those horrible layout patterns in Netbeans wei2912: Chuck Norris once wrote a 10 million lines C++ program in MS Notepad without hitting the backspace key. And it compiled without errors or warnings and was 100% bug free. Java is bad IMO. pulse: I mostly think of the bird chuck norris once made a program that was 110% bug free rindolf: Chuck Norris once wrote Swift Swiftly pulse: and he donated the extra 10% for charity. Chuck Norris once wrote a Whitespace program without whitespace. pulse: Only once? Slacker. rindolf, :D he Goes on to write Go _blizzy_: That's easy isn't everything readable in go by default? ams, that's what they said about Python Go is an excellent Java replacement. :-) _blizzy_: (the empty program is a valid Whitespace program) Twey, oh. time to learn meteor. i imagine it's possible to open a wormhole to another dimension using just javascript it's possible in Python import wormhole _blizzy_: I hear excellent things about Meteor. I also hear bad things . . . like the fact it's a JavaScript framework. _blizzy_, from __future__? pulse, of course. heh pulse: Yes, that's possible, but only if you do it by accident. (re: JavaScript) you gotta add 'use strict'; for it to work. pulse: why would a wormhole be to another dimension? I'm pretty sure neither Python nor JavaScript uses strict. JS does. pulse: wormholes goes to other places in the galaxy, it does not move between dimensions Znoosey, i thought all wormholes lead to dimensions with silly rabbits and such Seriously? I clearly haven't been writing "enough" JavaScript. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Strict_mode I haven't yet encountered that. galaxy = universe apotheon, yeah, JS has use strict :L Znoosey, wat in my sentence it is! As a string. I just messed it up :P galaxy is a subset of the universe I thought that was a joke about Python's True = False a universe might be a subset of a multiverse :P pulse: yes, I messed it up in my sentence a multiverse might be a subset of itself o_O a multiverse is a subset of space well what is space then space might be infinite why is True = False even legal in Python. _blizzy_, because of reasons it's illegal in 3.0 AFAIK _blizzy_: It's not in Py3 OMG pulse: I think that instead of "galaxy = universe" what Znoosey meant was "s/galaxy/universe/". somehow sneak True = False into a python 2 program Guys, why the arraylist only adds the last token to the list?http://pastebin.com/YbHLEqnA apotheon, universe = universe? o_. ##programming Freenode English Spelling it seems the Tokyo Hackerspace has finally moved to it’s new location, I was waiting for this in order to give my programming 101 class over at their place…. amigojapan: s/it’s/its ty rindolf amigojapan: you're welcome . rindolf: I really find that English rule strange, usually ’s is possessive amigojapan: well, you don't say he’s instead of his. but its is the correct possessive for it amigojapan: yes, it is. true amigojapan: With English, the only rule is that there are always exceptions hehehe true aidanh , jkhdkjdsh shjsad sdlkhlsk ads h kds <— I declare this now valid English :) Heh should read his gibberish before posting, what if by pure chance I write something incriminating :) amigojapan: you misspelled "shsjad" lol, rindolf ##programming Freenode Who invented Satan? ...I'm failing at typing. yep you're a fail a shame on the human kind hassoon_: I invented failure please send royalty checks aawe: you must be Satan. I invented satan too aawe: Chuck Norris invented Satan! rindolf: I'll need to send some cease or desist letters to Chuck’s lawyers for spreading such lies or is that "cease AND desist"? aawe: AND makes more sense, yeah rindolf is satan hassoon_: so Chuck Norris or aawe invented me? ;-) rindolf: yep but then who invented aawe? rindolf: for a token fee, I can list you as my inventor aawe: Chuck Norris did! aawe: I'd rather not make claims to Chuck Norris' work. a chuck is the part holding the piece in a lathe, and norris is the cat in Hogwarts in Harry Potter coincidence? ##programming Freenode Don’t reinvent Satan Zuudolph JohnBobSmith: ah. rindolf pindolf windolf, Hi :> Zuu: hi, sup? Zuu: maybe you should be Zindolf! rindolf: nothing much, just weekendstinating :> Zuu: ah. Wooh, Zindolph :P Or Zuundolph. :D is now known as Zuudolph Zuudolph: heh. Zuudolph: you're missing an n. The miss was kindof intentional :P I mean, itetioal Zuudolph: ah. Zuudolph: heh. Death to the n! :P We do't eed o stiki' N! N is overrated. Zuudolph: nice. :D Zuudolph kinda sounds like Rudolph. That's what I was going for :P Zuudolph: ah. Zuudoplh the black and white penguin! Had a very shiny beak! And if you ever saw him, you would know he's a programmer! lolz Zuudolph: Do you like my attempt at poetry? JohnBobSmith: it's a little arbitrary... so I guess it's good poetry :D Zuudolph: :D ##programming Freenode Consumers hi blehblah: sup not much, getting ready to release :) blehblah: nice, releases are always fun (well, at least the feeling afterwards) kalx, it's a nice feeling when you release an improved version of your stuff, it's exciting haha. I only had the caveat because releases can be different depending on the project. (Deploying to a live server environment can be stressful sometimes) oh, pff, nah I'm just consumer software. blehblah: consumer software? Do people consume your software? ;-) blehblah: is there less of it left after they pay for/use it? :D rindolf: the consumer consumes the souls of the developers with their requests and what not txdv: heh. this discussion WILL deter prospective developers :/ consumes txdv's soul. i have no soul nothing to consume there txdv: that's good - souls are a nuisance. txdv: consumer = management? :D (j/k) consumes txdv completely. Even in the electronic case, resources are limited. Each download may reduce the product available. Cannibalism man Mein Teil ##programming Freenode Day of the Tentacle, like existence, does not exist I wish Adventure games (the old style) hadn't crashed so badly. I like the Telltale Games, but they've turned into movies rather than click & point games although I just got Broken Sword on my ipad, that seems promising but still not anywhere near Lucasarts imagine the old Lucasarts team joining up and making Maniac Mansion III hmm that would be cool. haven’t played MM themachinist: MM2 is better known as Day of the Tentacle themachinist: and it's the best adventure games of all time, easily spins circles around both Monkey Island and Sam & Max heresy! play it, then say heresy again! it's insanely good now i have something to do this weekend definitely... and unless you cheat, probably longer :) xeno: I preferred the Monkey Islands over Day of the Tentacle. xeno: and I finished the Day of the Tentacle. xeno: it's a good idea not to state an opinion as a fact. :-) I would play DotT first, Sam & Max second, Monkey Island II third, not sure about 4th rindolf: but it's a fact that DotT is the best! :) Twey: i think its busybox, not sure how to tell jkbbwr: ? xeno: "In my opinion, it's a fact!" rindolf: exactly! xeno: stop! You don't exist! You cannot have opinions. xeno: I am not -> I think not. rindolf: you don't need to exist or to think for DotT to be the best adventure game :) xeno: you cannot have opinions and you certainly cannot state facts. xeno: heh. xeno: DotT does not exist! Thus, it can not be played. xeno: the Matrix HAZ YOU! rindolf: of course the matrix has me or I have the matrix or maybe I am the matrix xeno: in which cell? ;-) #9, the one with the soft fluffy walls xeno: a matrix is two-dimensional. only inside the matrix xeno: maybe an Evil Genius convinced us that matrices are a valid mathematical concept. Matrices are just a special case of tensors. rindolf: that's likely, but you don't even need that... the Evil Genius argument is just Descartes being incapable of imagining himself as not created by something conscious Twey: "Flobakonins are just a special case of loremipsums." rindolf: Gesundheit! Twey: heh. xeno: i agree that reality can be very different from what we perceive it. xeno: assuming powerful enough misconceptionists. ##programming Freenode “In my opinion, it’s a fact that I don’t exist!” Eat or be eaten that feel when you're hungry but you're too lazy to cook food pulse: do you have apples or snacks? pulse: 3pm, still didn't manage #ramennoodleslifestyle I know your feel pulse: can you order pizza? Flonk, same here, lol rindolf, yeah but i have no cash on me so it's either cook food or starve pulse: ah. rindolf, i have bananas :D no apples pulse: you could hunt for neighbour's cats i like my neighbour's cats they're cute also i don't eat cats then hunt further away in your neighbourhood or any sort of meat for that matter oh then hunt for their fruits and vegetables :D packs a rifle pesky carrots, won't get away from me this time If you eat cats, then you'll be reducing the amount of meat eaten in the world. shotgunning the ground is a surprisingly effective way to reveal the treasures that lie within PlanckWalk, that's paradoxical. i'll be eating meat so i'll be increasing it But you'll be reducing the meat that would otherwise be eaten by those cats in their life! ah. i don't mind cats eating meat and he'll increase the corn that's eaten by mice which increases world hunger so it's bad to eat cats better eat dogs they are useless although I guess they to have a positive impact on sales of the shoe industry so maybe it's not good to eat dogs either, or the shoe industry will falter now I'm not hungry any more so this chat was somewhat beneficial ##programming Freenode SCC - the Socialist Compiler Collection pyon: I'm trying to get inkscape to stop segfaulting on Mageia Cauldron. pyon: there was a big GCC/C++ transition to GCC-5.2.x rindolf: :-O rindolf: What [use case / particular sequence of actions] makes it segfault? pyon: just running it. right on startup. That delicious ABI breakage? rindolf: Ah! schquid: yes! schquid: it's part of the conspiracy of the Capitalists to oppress the proletariat! schquid: GCC is controlled by the Bourgeoisie. I knew it! schquid: heh, heh. schquid: I'm planning to create SCC - Socialist Compiler Collection to end the oppression! ;-) Hahaha we'll need to come up with a very socialist license for it wazzup guys schquid: Socialist Programmers of the World - UNITE! All hail the glorious liberated proletarian front! alphabutcho: schquid and I are discussing our plans to end the oppression of the proletariat by the open source-proliferating Capitalistic hegemony! schquid: :-) schquid: from each according to his hard-disk capacity - to each according to his warez's size! LOL. Hahaha we could make this a thing :P alphabutcho: actually , I'm trying to rebuild the Inkscape package here on Mageia Cauldron because it segfaults. ##programming Freenode You get Marx for Trying Get a Cyberclue I use the DNS to because my country blocks some web pages from us. So the only way to access the pages its to use a external DNS or a proxy. mrfhitz: They just block at the DNS level? Brilliant. kadoban: lots of places do that kadoban, these are probably the same people that prefix anything computer related with "cyber" :D schquid: Heh. schquid: heh. schquid: I detest the "cyber" modifier. Do you ... cyberdetest it? :P GeDaMo: heh. rindolf: how did it even happen that people use "cyber" for computery stuff? rindolf, yeah me too. Sadly the main users are people in positions of power schquid: yes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybernetics ##programming Freenode Cyberdistasteful How to get a Job? I'd accept any job offered to me on the spot, probably. Myrl-saki try to get a short internship - preferably paid thecha: your reply is not made from a global point of view As long as it's not Java. and if you do 3 or so of them you are bound to be handed a job if you ask for on e at the end of them sure lol just make a good impression: be pleasant to be around with, be on time, be diligent in your work, try to make your work better every day How to get a job with a cs degree in Denmark: 1. get degree 2. get job if you work in this way you will make yourself very valuable to your company and they wont let you leave sbrg: lol Myrl-saki so i guess move to denmark thecha: First step. Obtain a job. no first step obtain internships :D thecha: First step. Obtain internship. How to get a job: 1. get a job for 5 years for 5 years of experience. 2. get a job easily because you have 5 years of experience. easy! sbrg: lol the job you get for the 5 years of exp does it require 5 years exp? yes. lol So true. thecha: no, sorry misread it requires 10 years of experience well no problem then, just get a previous job for 5 years for every new job you get what kind of experience are you getting at work anyway? how to get a job: 1. solve the halting problem. 2. write a program that, given a job and an application you have written, terminates if you will be hired. 3. run halting problem solver on program for all jobs/applications 4. ??? 5. Profit sbrg: Lol. How to solve your unemployment issue: 1. create skynet 2. die at the hands of skynet 3. there are no humans so there are no jobs so by vacuous truth everyone has a job sbrg: heh. I'm full of good solutions today if I could only solve this deadlock issue ##programming Freenode Expansions of PHP PHP has e-mail functionality built in Don't use PHP and don't program anything PHP - pretty happy programming justanotheruser: PHP - pretty hopeless programming PHP - (PHP) hates programmers Also s/hopeless/horrible/ PHP = Pretty Hopeless Paper mache PHP = prehistoric programming :3 Probabilistic Haphazard Programming It's the new thing! probably haphazard programming Please Hang Programmers justanotheruser++ ##programming Freenode Sunday Bloody Sunday Hi all! Happy Sunday Bloody Sunday! hands rindolf the magic Orange of Clobbergok eats that magic Orange. vdamewood: that Orange tasted like watermelon. That's the magic. gives rinny a big kiss (not gay BTW) eats the kiss. :D rindolf: Which Bloody Sunday are you talking about? vdamewood: U2’s. That's in late January https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1972) hello beaky: Hell-o https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunday_Bloody_Sunday beaky: hell! rindolf: The link in that article to the event the song is about points to the page I linked to. rindolf: the song is about the day ssta: I know. it's also not new year's day (yet) one of the few U2 songs I like ##programming Freenode Kotlin Gosh kotlin really makes things simpler https://gist.github.com/jkbbwr/3f6fdca5d74f7c584fa7 jkbbwr: you can't stop telling us about how great kotlin is, can you? ;-) "Kotlin makes the sun shine, and the birds sing, and the Earth revolve around the sun, and it convinced the Knights who until recently said 'Ni' to stop saying 'Ni'." Kotlin is life. Kotlin is love. Praise kotlin! what is kotlin? war877: if you have to ask what kotlin is , you'll never know! beaky loves Kotlin. I think they now say "Ekki ekki ekki tapannnnnnnnnnnng" God wrote the universe in Kotlin. Who is kotlin and what's special about the code you linked to? Oh great. Yet another language to put on my research list. war877: Kotlin is the meaning of life. Not only that, but Kotlin also is life itself Rounin: yes! rindolf: people do it for FP I get to do it for Kotlin ##programming Freenode Give me Kotlin. Zeno’s “Coding for Nothin’” Song

Now look at them yo-yo's that's the way you do it
You code ya free source in the IDE
That ain't workin' that's the way you do it
Coding for nothin' but the clicks are free
Now that ain't workin' that's the way you do it
Lemme tell ya them guys ain't dumb
Maybe get a blister on your ctrl-key finger
Maybe get a blister on your help F1

We gotta program microwave ovens
Custom kitchen deliveries
We gotta code these refrigerators
We gotta code these colour TV's

See the little faggot with the parser and the markup
Yeah buddy that's his own code
That little faggot got his own toy language
That little faggot he's a millionaire

We gotta program microwave ovens
Custom kitchen deliveries
We gotta code these refrigerators
We gotta code these colour TV's

I shoulda learned to code the hello world
I shoulda learned to code them things
Look at that mama, she got it compilin' in the background
Man we could have some fun
And he's up there, what's that? Hawaiian noises?
Bangin' on the keyboard like a chimpanzee
That ain't workin' that's the way you do it
Do your coding for nothin' get your clicks for free

We gotta program microwave ovens
Custom kitchen deliveries
We gotta code these refrigerators
We gotta code these colour TV's

Now that ain't workin' that's the way you do it
You code ya free source in the IDE
That ain't workin' that's the way you do it
Coding for nothin' but the clicks are free
Coding for nothin' and clicks for free

— Written by Zeno from Freenode’s ##programming, based on the “Money for Nothing” song by Dire Straits. The parody is licensed under the public domain.

Zeno from ##programming “Coding for Nothin’” Bad Taste sunnymilk seems to match my personality she’s into computers and seems fairly smart apart from the Katy Perry comment Dr_Coke: for the record, there are some Katy Perry songs that I'm fond of as well. rindolf I'm sorry to hear that Dr_Coke: different people have different tastes. well rindolf that's bad taste Dr_Coke: "*bad* taste"? Dr_Coke: by bad taste do you mean "taste that doesn't matches mine"? rindolf that's what people always mean by bad taste jss_alpha: heh, heh. rindolf Katy Perry is bad taste ##programming Freenode Your bad taste is not my bad taste. Hot Pink Hi all. hiiiiiii :) DrIranian: can I take one of your "i"s? agrees after long consideration takes one of DrIranian 's "i" and colours it hot pink. how old were you when you first started programming? i was 15-16 iwanttobreakfree: I was about 10. :D iwanttobreakfree: I wrote in XT BIOS BASIC. iwanttobreakfree: what did you write in? rindolf: Girls calling me housewife, asking me for cooking advice, and now you paint my i pink :D PaScAl iwanttobreakfree: ah, Pascal. iwanttobreakfree, 12-13ish iwanttobreakfree: a Bondage-and-Discipline language. Mostly dead now. I feel a need to write more stuff. you have higher IQ then i guess iwanttobreakfree: what makes you think that? dunno I have a book on Pascal that I've never actually read. it seemed to simple? iwanttobreakfree: and IQ is a silly measurement of intelligence not to say competence and performance. IQ is good for a basic measurement I once passed an IQ test. > 60 is passing, right? :( actually you can have super high competence, but when you don't want to do the job, then it doesn't count 105 is passing vdamewood: if you can turn on IRC, you probably have 105 isn't the average IQ 90? rindolf: 100 Values below a small threshold deviating from 100 are generally very inaccurate DrIranian: "turn on IRC"? rindolf: The same IQ in different countries is not the same 100 points is defined as the mean and median in IQ tests no wonder people are so stupid passed Zeno` the state-sponsored happy pills. vdamewood: Black Bile! Guys. Myrl-saki: and girls. gives rindolf some Yellow bile to balance his humors. vdamewood: I want hot pink bile. seconds I want pink bile vdamewood: so it will match the colour of DrIranian 's "i". rindolf: Your only other choices are blood and phlegm I can give you a mixture of 1 parts blood, 5 parts phlegm vdamewood: that's OK, I still have a lot of hot pink paint left to colour that bile. vdamewood: those are the standard options, we are talking about tuning the fluids LOL. WTF is happening. `echo 'a' > Foo` Then reading it in, say, Haskell and Java, it's "a\n" Myrl-saki: echo appends a newline by default. Myrl-saki: you can use echo -n IIRC not sure how portable -n is. rindolf: Oh, I see. IIRC --> In internet-relay chat rindolf: That doesn't explain why vim and nano also saves that way though. Because vim and nano assume you want a new line at the end of your text file. vdamewood: I see. Myrl-saki: it's a configuration option. Myrl-saki: kate doesn't do it by default. vdamewood: Why though? colours the newline hot pink. Because they're text files. vdamewood: What's the benefit of such? guys i have a genius idea: to make a programming language which supports all syntaxes ( func. programming, logic programming, OOP, etc) iwanttobreakfree: lol Myrl-saki: for one, cat $file works nicer. iwanttobreakfree: C++? iwanttobreakfree: is this back in the future? iwanttobreakfree: syntaxes or semanticses? it doesn't support func programming and logic pr. iwanttobreakfree: or do you mean paradigms? everything! gives rindolf 20 cents. (That's a pair o' dimes) gives iwanttobreakfree 60secs to say something intelligent it's all mixed up. you can program everything with it colours 10 of these cents hot pink. pats Archer on the head. iwanttobreakfree: we have a saying in Hebrew : "Catch a lot - didn't catch anything" Looks like 60 seconds are up. such a approach would result a highly effective program code and it would save thousands of human lives and it's a work of a lifetime for some people. iwanttobreakfree: also, reportedly Linus Torvalds once said that his primary responsibility as the chief developer of the Linux kernel is to say "No.". i mean, you know logic programming languages and func. you know the differences? when you can mix them, then you could have better code void free() { abort(); } iwanttobreakfree: You may have misspelled "Python" snyp: void *malloc(size_t sz) { return (void*)rand(); } void* malloc(size_t sz) { real_malloc(3 * sz); return real_malloc(sz); } you know... cause he wants to break free. snyp: like Queen? ;-) you know... cause he wants to break free(). like LD_PRELOAD'ing a broken free quiet(Account.find("iwanttobreakfree")) dammit. snyp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4Mc-NYPHaQ - if you don't get the ref. snyp: heh. rindolf: i know the song snyp: nice pun. void *malloc(size_t sz) { void *r = real_malloc(sz); free(r); return r; } snyp: good! sorry busy at work but i didn't quite like it when i heard it.. my fav queen song is bohemian rhapsody probably the only queen song i like snyp: ah, I only like the Muppets' cover of Bohemian Rhapsody. Have you seen it? no snyp, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqwC41RDPyg void *malloc(size_t sz) { int i; return &i; } snyp: here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgbNymZ7vqY watches I vdamewood: heh. I'm going to stop coming up with horrible implementations of malloc() now. Maybe we should write our own libc. void *malloc (ssize_t x) { static void *a[4096]; static int ap; return a[ap++]; } muhahaha Afternoon vinleod :) rindolf: lol it's awesome snyp: :-) ##programming Freenode free() like a hot pink bird. “What’s the Air Velocity of an Unladen Swift?” I have a json file that I need in utf-8 how would I go about doing this jailbot: isn't JSON utf-8 only? jailbot: and you can use iconv idk I'm serving a json file to my swift project adsc: heh, heh. and I'm getting this error "The data couldn’t be read because it isn’t in the correct format." and the docs say that it should be in utf-8 jailbot: what are the HTTP headers? how can I check that in your browser's dev tools jailbot: using a command line HTTP tool or a sniffer or whatever. jailbot: or adsc's suggestion. visual studio is BUTTS type: Document I need to configure htaccess right jailbot: possibly. ~.~ its 2am I don't want this jailbot: go to sleep. jailbot: Tomorrow never dies. I'm on a role jailbot: s/role/roll/ I want to hang out with my friends tomorrow not be writing swift haha jailbot: I want a pony! jailbot: what is the average air velocity of an unladen swift? rindolf: what distribution? African or European? swallow surely? pluszak: a Cupertino swift. pluszak: designed by Apple in Kalifornia. "what's the airspeed velocity of an unladen spit" doesn't sound right ssta: a swift is a bird similar to a swallow. ssta: but not very related. I know :) nobody ever wrote a book called "Swifts and Amazons" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swift swallows are clearly superior to swifts http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/orifice-open wonders if there's a programming language called "Swallow" if not there ought to be ssta: well volunteered! rindolf: it would wind up being very similar to Java (but with a few fixes) haha rindolf I got it guys! I was missing a : jailbot: ah. jailbot: does it swiftly work now? yes! I'm so excited jailbot: ex-swift-elent! almost no code Or ex-swallow-lent. jailbot: can you go to sleep now? Swiftly? rindolf: there doesn't seem to be a language called "swallow", but Spiral has a command called "swallow" adsc: ah. adsc: what is Spiral? adsc: I don't see it here - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=spiral%20programming%20language rindolf: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Spiral adsc: heh, heh. ##programming Freenode As swiftly as possible Java and JavaScript How much money can I expect to make as a developer out of college? SillyMusings: 0$. Tax deduced. quelqun_dautre: well, that's a lower bound. SillyMusings: the correct answer is that it varies based on several parameters. rindolf, what are the parameters? what you know, what framework you can use, how good you are in an interview, where you are SillyMusings: 1. Where are you located. 2. Which languages do you know. 3. where you'll get hired. I know Javascript and Java where are you located ? SillyMusings: it's spelled "JavaScript" - not "Javascript" I am located in Oregon how much money you'll make is not a function of any of those inputs. and how good are you at Java[script] ? sad to say it's barely a function at all. predictability in terms of actual earnings is impossible these days. I'd say I'm okay at it quelqun_dautre: Java and JavaScript are two completely different things. if you want some examples, look at GlassDoor. What sort of range am I looking at? SillyMusings: GlassDoor. rindolf: I know. SillyMusings: anything from us will be an incomplete picture. SillyMusings: so draw from multiple sources. If I'm fresh out of college, am I a 'junior developer'? probably. god knows what you'll be placed into. SillyMusings: what is "okay" on your terms ? Do you know the play framework ? J2EE ? SillyMusings: I certainly hope you aren't expecting a lot of money. quelqun_dautre, no I'm stronger on the JS side Java and javascript are often used in the same "completed" project these days, but they are completely different beasts for better or worse little_bit, glassdoor says average of 103k? quelqun_dautre: http://stackoverflow.com/a/245073 - case in point. ;-) SillyMusings: for what position? and where? javascript is relatively strong right now due to node.js, it isn't ideal for *everything* but it can do a lot thinks serving Java web applets from a Node.js service is bestest JavaScript is relatively strong on it's own because they keep making it better, its not ever finished really yes I've been following es6 stuff erm... rindolf? pilne: that was a joke! Relax! yeah, but it is starting to add cruft SillyMusings: what do you know in JS ? What library can you use ? Ever used functional programming ? Do you know what a closure is ? LOL i would hope so rindolf, that isn't impossible, i just can't see why you'd do it other than being a code-massochist SillyMusings: I'm going to assume you're fresh out of college, so let me make this clear: you're not getting those jobs. pilne: use the wrong tool for the job! ;-) ##programming Freenode An IDE That Does Not Suck Maybe I should make an IDE. One that doesn't suck. varesa: one thing I don't understand about JetBrains is why they have so many IDEs with a common codebase and different feature-sets. seems like a bad money-making scheme. vdamewood: it likely will suck. :-). This coming from the guy who explains why all languages suck. vdamewood: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=joel-ms-lost-api-war-1 vdamewood: and also https://xkcd.com/927/ Is that the one about competing standards? vdamewood: yes, it is. Hey, every once in a while someone comes along, makes a new X, and completely obliterates every other X out there. rindolf: hey! Speaking of competing products, I need to learn mercurial. I don't see the need for yet another IDE. nso95: hi, sup? nm, you? nso95: I woke up a while ago. ah/ nso95: and I am unable to reproduce the short benchmarking time I got yesterday. I've lost faith in humanity. that’s rather unfortunate My co workers: https://xkcd.com/1597/ this next semester is going to suck The next semester always sucks, except the one after your last. jeaye: There's no need for another bootloader either, but here I am. That's different. "One that doesn't suck." is the key point. You didn't say that about the bootloader. Oh, yeah. I have no real goal to make mine not suck. Good point. ##programming Freenode Completely obliterate all sucky IDEs Dramatic Skills what's up guys? vendu: I handled the morning's E-mails. rindolf, cool :) rindolf: you must work on your dramatic skills adsc: my dramatic skills? "I wade through the flood of the morning's electronic mail messages" sounds much better than "I handled the morning's emails" well, it would if it had correct grammar vendu: I've been working on the Kakuro Project Euler problem. adsc: heh, heh. rindolf has been chipping away at the Project Euler's Kakuro complex adsc: will you be my ghost author? ;-) rindolf: sure, but it might involve your character having romantic encounters with stoic goats rindolf lost himself in the endless depth of the black goat's rectangular pupil, his self utterly annihilated by the vast void hiding behind the tiny window; a passage into a realm he thought lost forever Yay! Inbox Zero! Or as adsc would put it "I stare into the empty abyss of my inbox signifying my victory. "I have battled against entropy and came out victorious" I tell myself." rindolf: that's it! rindolf: your life becomes 100% more epic if you just want to Now to train spamassassin. ##programming Freenode 100% more epic; 100% more awesome Big JPEGs Wow! The chromium-browser's sources tar.xz is 531,505,652 bytes. Wow. that's almost as big as a medium resolution jpg of my.... computer pilne: you have big JPEGs. that's what she said rindolf :) pilne: heh. i like big gifs and i cannot lie~ hah! merkazu: heh. ##programming Freenode Write-only I was told that Forth is a write-only language. Depends on style Yeah, on some styles, you can't even write. ##programming Freenode Read-less and Write-less Windows Update Bleh! Windows Update is acting up again. I swear that it is the bottom of the bottomless abyss of suck. I know the pain My windows firewall has been broken ever since I installed windows 7 :/ Trashlord: let's inflict that pain on the Microsoft software devs that produced such crap! rindolf: yeah, we'll tie them to a chair for days upon days, and then say "See what it feels like to sit here waiting forever?" Trashlord: heh, heh. bahamut24: there was a time when Windows Firewall wasn't broken? Today was completely unproductive, no lines of code written. bahamut24: were you solving problems in your head, or thinking about design decisions, though? No just watched pointless shit on youtube. lmao ah Was it good pointless shit? kadoban let me check my watch history If you don't remember what you watched, couldn't have been that good :-/ I see hitler parodies, best of news bloopers, "Bill O'reily gets owned by kid", "woman live in mans closet for a year" plus lots more "the orlando massacre" hahahah lots of stupid shit. ##programming Freenode Vintage HTML and sudo rights gurra: You just have to make sure that there isn't any sort of infinite recursion on the left-hand side of an expression. Damn. vdamewood: gurra has quit ayush1: <sarcasm>No kidding?</sarcasm> <reality>nature of kidding</reality> <this stuff>doesn't make you funny</thisstuff> <blink>blinks</blink> <span style="color:red;font-weight:bold">LOLOLOLOLOL</span> <thinks>wtf</thinks> ayush1: You forgot the acronym tag. <marquee>Trololololol</marquee> <blink><marquee>This is my new web page in 1996!</blink></marquee> <img src="under_construction.jpg"><h1>Be sure to bookmark this page!</h1><Html/> Rounin: heh, heh :D There has be [ 0 0 0 0 0 2 5 ] visitor on this page. *been {opinion: "hate markup"} has quit (Quit: TheMadcapper) nitrix: No. has be is correct. ;) vdamewood: no "have been" is correct vdamewood: You deserve a spanking. ayush1: Thank you Captain Oblivious. vdamewood: your welcome thas are Englais One shall respect thy language. is not the one. nitrix: supeir sitpusting That leaves only zero then, in our binary world :( There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Quit: This is the end. Goodbye cruel world! I just noticed that I have a lot of code that's commented out in my shold-be-ready-to-release library. is pretty sure vdamewood doesn't have sudo rights ayush1: sudo make me a sandwich s/shold/should/ vdamewood: sudo !! vdamewood: did it make you a sandwhich right now? No. I'm still not a sandwich. vdamewood: heh. vdamewood: sudo !!; sudo !!; sudo !!; sudo !!; now you should have 4 sandwhich's on your plate. vdamewood: including you Yay! eats vdamewood steals some of vdamewood's sandwhiches 4 to be exact I already ate one of them. So you can't steal it. poisons the sandwiches. barfs on rindolf vdamewood: I can still eat 4 of them I want aleph-null sandwiches. orders astatine and mixes it with vdamewood's sandwhiches vdamewood: you should hope some of them are not poisoned. rindolf: I have added astatine -_-. rindolf: BTW I am a zombie tintin now reboots ayush1 is alive again ##programming Freenode How to increase productivity? how to increase productivity? iamrohit7: Find the productivity menu, and select "Increase" is it a dropdown? i hate them. vdamewood: heh. iamrohit7: it is hiding inside the Hamburger icon. iamrohit7: and requires activation in about:config . iamrohit7: there are various productivity methods like "Getting Things Done". oh. cool. where exactly is that config file? ##programming Freenode Be productive! Be-ee productive! Microsoft Software and Speed This install for visual studio is taking forever. vdamewood: lies! It takes at least forever and two weeks. vdamewood: it will end a short time before the heat death of the universe. vdamewood: one thing I learned is not to expect Microsoft to make fast software. They tend to take more than Intel gives. lol yeah, i agree with rindolf , although last time I used VS it was reasonably fast how is vs compared to Linux ides BTW, I never used vs since I moved to Linux a while ago and didn't turn back It's not quite vim amigojapan: Windows Update on Windows 7 is horribly slow and unresponsive. I gave up on updating my windows 7 partition on my laptop. ibouvousaime_: Visual studio is great if you're working with .NET. amigojapan: I was told it's better on windows 10. vdamewood: I see ibouvousaime_: the Microsoft CL.EXE compiler is crappy and non-standard-compliant. rindolf: I often hear "it is better in [insert newest version of windows here]". I have grown untrustworthy of this claim amigojapan: heh, true. ##programming Freenode One’s relationship with C that feeling when someone tells me they found python too hard so they're going to learn C because it's "easy and not outdated"... _ic2000: its not outdated :P but yea that is a silly thing to say Brando753, but they were implying that python was outdated lol _ic2000: yea that's pretty bad _ic2000: python is awesome I love C I really do but I would never program what I do in python in C are you sure you love C? magneticduck: its a love hate relationship :I i would like to see if i love C while I'm out at sea lol I think a relationship a developer might have with C is less love, more codependency he hits me because he loves me nso95_: exactly! he segfaults because he trusts me So you don't love C, C loves you C lovers ~-> clovers it was meant to be magneticduck: heh. magneticduck: LOL. magneticduck: he works perfectly in the debugger then crashes normally because he loves you all that C love C would be miserable without valgrind and GDB Brando753: heh. when he corrupts all over my memory, he's just venting his anger from work it's normal, all languages do that magneticduck: heh. I fell down the stairs nso95_: did C push you? nso95_: that sucks. nso95_: or are you being serious, in which case sorry :I nah, just kidding :D nso95_: ah. I don’t have stairs ##programming Freenode Love as Deep as the C EvilChristmas Zuu: some people told me they think a Freecell/etc. solver is useless, but it has some uses and is my most popular project todate. I’m mostly surprised that you can find the spirit to work on it for so long. like, so many years. But as long as you find the time to distribute Santas presents, it's all good :P Zuu: I actually don't distribute Santa's presents - that is goody-two-shoes-reindeer's job. Being an EvilReindeer I do the opposite - I steal all the presents to maintain balance in the force. rindolf: Do you have an evil master? rindolf, Noooooh! Perhaps a jolly one? bizarrefish: no! I'm my own master. rindolf, that's too evil! :< bizarrefish: but I have some collaborators. Zuu, bizarrefish : we use EvilReindeer-driven-EvilConspiracy Zuu: it's the ultimate EvilParadigm rindolf, i bet there's someone who just injects these thoughts into your head when Christmas is over, and just before Christmas starts, they inject Rudolph thoughts into your head :> Zuu: my plan for this year is to cancel Christmas altogether. and replace it with EvilChristmas rindolf, If i don't get presents, i know who's fault it is now :P Zuu: you'll get EvilPresents this time. ;-) rindolf: D: but I liked non-evil Christmas, non-evil Santa Claus was always so nice and jolly And getting presents which don't try and do evil unspeakable things to you is nice as well uses his magical EvilAntlers to convert Brando753 into EvilBrando753 so he'll like EvilChristmas No...Must...Resist is now known as EvilBrando753 damn :I Brando753: resistance is futile all your base are belong to us EvilBrando753: heh, welcome to the EvilReindeer Evil World Domination Evil Conspiracy! EvilBrando753: you're one of us now. (~vassagus@186.4.2.162) has joined :/ one of us, one of us, gooble gobble gooble gobble Hello hello parathon_ this room has 722 people, yet so few are active bizarrefish: isn't it ohms ? ibouvousaime: that's the nature of IRC. ibouvousaime: man could you imagine if they were all active now? ibouvousaime: no one would be able to converse ibouvousaime: the buffers would move so fast EvilBrando753: heh. yeah true haha EvilBrando753 you think I am joking, but it would be horrible, IRC was never designed for such high volume I'm trying to imagine it in my mind at the moment hahaha it would be like a terminal you use to play VLC videos ibouvousaime: 1 Ohm = 1 Volt / 1 Ampère pyon: ohh EvilBrando753: sup? rindolf: reading up on old censorship laws here in the US rindolf: good old wikipedia never realized there used to be a supreme court ruling stating free speech did not extend to films rindolf: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_Film_Corp._v._Industrial_Commission_of_Ohio it was a 9-0 ruling as well which is insane to think about EvilBrando753: ah, I see. EvilBrando753: wikipedia may be good, but it's not too old. I just want a printed copy of wikipedia for the sake of having one I hate trees with a passion :P EvilBrando753: will this printed copy be a wiki as well? well it will have to update every time Wikipedia does https://what-if.xkcd.com/59/ why do people call electric potential “voltage”? it's as if they called time “secondage” or distance “metrage” errr nvm i meant “electric potential” difference* pyon: FWIW, "amperage" is sometimes used too pyon: I don't think I've ever heard "teslage" or "henryage" though :-P ownage c oops i wanted to press ctrl+A,+C xD have fear for I is here! there we go (haha) MisterSyntax: you iz here? yez MisterSyntax: are you here to ruin the day? yez MisterSyntax: awesome. i brought demons and angry spirits with me MisterSyntax: you sound Evil and I like Evil. rindolf, want some? :D That's unfortunate. We needed more trolls, not demons. points at demon nr 3 and angry spirits 1 through 10 you can have those MisterSyntax: thanks! rindolf, you’re welcome, and remember, create havoc and despair wherever you go! MisterSyntax: thanks! laughs evil-ish from his dungeon tower MisterSyntax: isn't a dungeon supposed to be underground? yeah but it's a tower.. in a dungeon I put on my robe and wizard hat... so imagine a great cave with numerous caves joined to it and in that great cave there's a tower and at the top of that tower is my room with a nice window overviewing the magma flow of the earth. ;-) MisterSyntax: I wonder how you get an Internet connection there. easy, wifi. hahahahahah MisterSyntax: heh. no I'm tapping internet from an industrial fibercable they don't suspect a thing , the muggelz cooling the hardware has been more of a problem though xD MisterSyntax: first world problems ;-) under world problems rindolf, indeed haha yeah it's a real 'hell' i even have a muggle-zoo great fun for the children they can interact with primates my cat just jumped on my lap and i felt like a true evil genius http://prettycleverfilms.com/files/2013/05/4_blofelds_cat_many.jpg MisterSyntax: heh. MisterSyntax: I'm reminded of the film Bolt. haha rindolf MisterSyntax: did you watch it? yes MisterSyntax: nice. rindolf, i had to, my sisters' kids wanted to watch it whilst i was supervising and i like to act like a child when watching movies or playing with toys so it was quite fun xD even built them a mayan pyramid afterwards made out of duplo lol well mayan http://www.crystalinks.com/pyramidelcastillo.jpg << that kind no clue if its mayan MisterSyntax: nice. they were amazed and kept it for months, even built a whole city around it themselves MisterSyntax: I think it is. yeah rindolf i think as well but ain't sure xD MisterSyntax: the Mayan Pyramids look nicer than the Egyptian ones IMO. rindolf, agreed. here have another demon.. points at demon nr.4 pets demon No. 4 beware though, no. 4 has a tendency to bite ##programming Freenode macOS Apparently, Apple has decided to rename Mac OS X/OS X into "macOS". Marketing people are crazy. ikr I wanna study marketing ? random comments a good programmer should care less about marketing.. hire a rep I am no programmer your no? what are you doing in here then programming for money is so boring ConceptThoughts: it is a nice chat ;o; lol first two words in the topic, Community Chat yes but that follow Programming implying its a programming community chat it is a / not and and an and* what's that mean rindolf: i have no idea how marketing people think... what exactly is going on in their heads when they determine that renaming os x to macOS might increase sales or whatever apple is trying to achieve rindolf: perhaps it's for consistency with iOS? nvm pyon: I think they want to add curiosity "what changed?" exploit I mean exio4: no it can't be just that I am quite tired :( pyon: see https://github.com/sindresorhus/awesome/pull/758#issuecomment-245765996 rindolf: checking ah so it was as i was thinking OK that makes sense exio4: I feel that there's good marketing and there's bad marketing. exio4: what is what is a matter of a lot of disagreement. exio4: nobody would be crazy enough to change the name of a core product just to make people wonder what happened pyon: I hope that Apple's marketing department will die in a macFlame™! ;-) rindolf: lol rindolf: why does it particularly annoy you that apple renamed their product? :-O s/product/desktop os/ pyon: well, I've seen many people misspell "Mac OS X" as "MacOSX" / "macOSX" / "macosx" / "macosX" / etc. and been trying to get them to use the correct spelling and capitalisation and now it's different and lamer. Isn't it called iOS now? rindolf: lol Or is that only for mobile devices? rindolf: i don't think it's terribly important if people spell it correctly no, that's iMobile, they renamed that yesterday in the conf Seriously? rindolf: it's not a real English word, it's just a product name - the only ones who should be worried about properly spelling its name are apple themselves SlashLife: iOS is different than Mac OS X. pyon: I've invented a pun on Mac OS X - "Mac O'Sucks" it's not too funny though. rindolf: lol rindolf: i always thought “x” was meant to be pronounced “ten” pyon: maybe, but no one pronounces it that way. pyon: again - people have crazy marketing ideas. s/crazy/unrealistic/ rindolf: heh oh well, I'm off to sleep. rindolf: gn pyon: heh, thanks bye all Good macNight! lol ##programming Freenode macOS without the X still sux “Demons upon thee, Apple marketing department!” MisterSyntax: can you unleash some of your demons on Apple's marketing department? rindolf, sure no problem, what region? MisterSyntax: Cupertino. if that's how it's spelled. sends over his "Elite Demons" legion towards Cupertino I want a macSacare! they might take a while to arrive hahaha macsacare xD MisterSyntax: :-) rindolf, but once they arrive they will inhabit their electronics and falsify their databases also there's one demon among them that will try to wiki-leak things MisterSyntax: heh, heh. MisterSyntax: you have a good selection of demons. rindolf, thanks, I've trained them myself :) you wouldn't believe how stupid they used to be.. they'd just go around killing without a plan and end up getting killed by them hunters MisterSyntax: sounds like you're a good teacher to these demons. ##programming Freenode “I want a macSacare!” Windows UpHate ConceptThoughts: did you know that Microsoft is the organisation with the most open source pull-requests on GitHub? They appear to be taking open source seriously. rindolf, seriously? password2, https://octoverse.github.com/ password2: see https://octoverse.github.com/ wow soon geeks will need to find new reasons to hate MS password2: well, it's possible other companies have more open source code, but MS Received the most pull-reqs. well just that they are showing up on the radar is already amazing password2: heh, I'm trying not to expend too much energy hating companies. rindolf, if only more people were like you password2: or people for that matter. password2: heh. many many people simply use Linux because they dislike Microsoft And defining yourself by what you hate is a slippery slope password2: well, I use Linux because I like it better, and feel more productive in it, and because Windows Update is hatefully (!) slow. password2: see http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/facts/Windows-Update/ yeah , I've read that :D i just disable my windows update password2: heh. solves 99% of my issues password2: you got 1 problem but Windows Update ain't 99 of them. i hate windows update why? seems to break stuff It's recently caused people to miss out on large parts of their exams at least on my computer Since they were answering them on Windows computers but it might also be something to do with acer and McAfee That of course decided to reboot for 1,5 hours during the exams though the windows update is definitely the catalyst Rounin: "Windows Update ate my homework!" rindolf: Brrr! Rounin, Well one would wonder why the people would set the settings on those pc to auto update i blame the people using it password2: They wouldn't... Windows set those settings Rounin, you can change them password2: That's not what we're discussing i believe windows updates are forced with win 10 why not? password2: If someone robs you, you can also choose to get shot if you so desire That doesn't mean it's your choice to get robbed you can disable them but i think it can cause problems its seems like a cheap shot at windows yeah No, it doesn't It doesn't seem like that at all but no one was hurt and no one plans on being robbed No one plans on having their exam ruined by Windows Update either, as far as I know idk why you bothered with that comparison For the life of me I cannot understand why Windows Update takes a while to do its thing *before* the system shutdown. rindolf idk BTW Rounin if you want to blame default setting on windows , you apparently have very little experience with Linux because that's like half the trouble with Linux password2: That's not true either... I don't apparently have very little experience with Linux ##programming Freenode Should I use BitKeeper or GitHub? When should I use BitKeeper (peer-to-peer) and when should I use GitHub (client-server) for my software project? fanfan: git is distributed fanfan: why do you want to use BitKeeper? fanfan: and git is distributed too. rindolf, I didn't understand. fanfan: git is peer-to-peer - just like BitKeeper. rindolf, so when should I use Git and when should I use GitHub? fanfan: there are other git services aside from GitHub and you can set up one of your own. fanfan: you normally use git to interact with GitHub. rindolf, I don't really know what should I do, can please guide me. fanfan: use GitHub if you like it - if not - use a different git service provider. rindolf, well I choose GitHub because there are already millions of people using it, so it seems trustworthy. fanfan: same for bitbucket and others baum, I will just use GitHub before I get crazy in all these options. fanfan: you could also just use git fanfan: it seems like a good choice at the moment. baum: we told him that. baum, So Git is better than BitKeeper? git is better than everything baum: this seems like one of those 'Should I use jQuery or JavaScript?' questions. rindolf: oh i see, didn't read up. and yes it does rindolf, I get it now, I people use GitHub because they don't have a server or online-storage, and they don't want to. But I have a server so I can just use BitKeeper. fanfan: well, BitKeeper was made open source only relatively recently, which caused git (and previously other FOSS VCSes) to become popular instead. fanfan: why do you want to use bitkeeper? rindolf, because 15 years of development fanfan: you can set up a git service on your server as well. rindolf, and is supported by a big company fanfan: well, git probably had more contributors. fanfan: which big company supports BK? rindolf, just please tell me, for god's sake, should I use GitHub or Git? fanfan: if you are judging a source control solution by its company and years of existence maybe check out Visual SourceSafe :) fanfan: I suggest you use git and you can opt to use GitHub as well. baum: heh, I laughed-out-loud from that comment. baum: can I tweet it? rindolf, is GitHub best of its kind? rindolf: go for it :) used PVCS in an enterprise environment for many years with Nortel/BNR baum: thanks! okay guys, I will just use GitHub, before I get crAZY, now everyone shut up. fanfan: great. you sure you want to use github? mpetch: be careful or you'll make him be like the child monster who wants to be "there" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m-kbBamg_U haha mpetch: :-) ##programming Freenode Bit by the Git Hub rindolf’s bad C code In fc-solve's C source code I have 2,738 "const"s vs. 1,521 "if"s and I have 1,344 "int"s that's 5,376 bytes! rindolf, D: how can you have 0,738 of a constant? Felishia: 2,738 consts Felishia: over 2 thousand Felishia: it's not a decimal dot but you put a comma there it's a decimal comma Felishia: yes, for the thousands no for the thousands it's a dot Felishia: no, not in English. or in Hebrew D: wat I have 0.738 of a const because it only appears with certain typedefs shakalaka: good for you! or #defines rather schally: can I borrow 0.002 of a const? rindolf: go ahead schally: thanks! Hmmm... I have 1,156 "endif"s - lots of preprocessor stuff. :-( and I have 1,102 "instance"s rindolf, what a bad code! ewwww! such a bad C grammar I have 864 "void"s Felishia: only 1,145 "endif"s now after I extracted a macro 1,140 "endif"s now Felishia: 1,128 "endif"s now! rindolf, you gotta bring it down to 2 D: Felishia: heh. if windows... if unix... Felishia: I have #ifdef _cplusplus extern "C" { #endif on every header 45 files changed, 1904 insertions(+), 2306 deletions(-) ====> what a day rindolf, what you only commit once a day Felishia: no. Felishia: this is git diff --stat ##programming Freenode The end of the endifs is not so near You’ve got the touch was in Malaysia last year :D It's quite nice Very friendly people bizarrefish : what about you ? well Malaysia is hot as hell. I am in the UK, which is not hot Malaysia was for a work trip Was pretty cool I think it's cool how Malaysian children stared at me (I'm 6'4 and white) Chinese people stare as well. I like that they find me so interesting. bizarrefish, if a Japanese guy passed through a rural African village where everyone is black and 6'+ he'd probably be stared at as well! :p heh bizarrefish : XD we will find you interesting for sure ~ 6ft4in is quite tall, even in the UK. It's a shame nobody feels like they can stare heh bizarrefish :cause you be different if you don't wear or sound like we do. bizarrefish, what if they have a height fetish and start staring at you ominously? :^) When I go to very different countries, I just worry that I might accidentally be rude. bizarrefish: your rude Yuken: Then let them stare :) I'm happy for them to. Just no touchy :D Myrl-saki: I'm sorry ;.; slowly moves to the UK and stalks bizarrefish then. Myrl-saki: You can touch me if that makes it okay again bizarrefish: your lewd touches bizarrefish Ah bizarrefish : like no touching , you break it you buy it XD using the unix touch command Why would you want to stalk a British person? We don't even have health insurance touch rindolf sudo touch rindolf bizarrefish: touchée! while true; do touch rindolf; done bizarrefish: you are not in the sudoers list This incident has been reported. lol removes HDD, plugs into other computer, chroot, touch rindolf bizarrefish: heh, you're insistent bizarrefish: what if the partitions are encrypted? rindolf: I don't have to touch you in your home directory. I can touch you anywhere. In multiple places. cd /tmp; touch rindolf bizarrefish: that's the RealRindolf™! bizarrefish: I only have one place in the file system. OneTruePath™! MakeTmpGreatAgain(TM)! bizarrefish: nice bizarrefish: heh bizarrefish: tmp was never great! ##programming Freenode What is "NP-complete"? Rashad: generalised Freecell was shown to be NP-complete NP-complete means? Rashad: here? Yup. Just came back. Rashad: did you read about NP-completeness? Nope. What is it? Rashad: see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NP-completeness Too much math. On wikipedia. Rashad: see http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=memoir-from-a-Physics-lesson-in-the-9th-grade rindolf: Sometimes formality can make things more complex than they really are. Rashad: true rindolf: Can you give me a simple introduction? Rashad: well, do you know what polynomial time is? No. Rashad: hmmm... I know what a polynomial is. Is this related to the BigO notation? Rashad: yes. Rashad: polynomial time is O(P(N)) where P(N) is a polynomial of N OK. I am trying to think of an example.. two nested loops Rashad: so it can be O(n^2) or O(n) or O(n*log(n)) or even O(n**100) Aha. What is 'n'? Number of operations? Umm. Probably not. Rashad: the length of the input Yeah that makes sense. Rashad: OK. I remember stuff about search algorithms. n is the number of entries in an array, for example. yep Rashad: now, some problems' *verification algorithm* is polynomial and these problems are called "NP" Verification algorithm? Rashad: verification means you verify that the solution is correct after given one. Aha. Rashad: for example, if I give you a list and tell you that it's sorted, you can verify in polynomial time that it is correct by simply checking each pair of elements A solution in freecell is a series of moves? Rashad: yes sbrg: I see. OK so NP *complete* means? Rashad: now, some problems are NP-hard which means that each of them can be used to solve any problem in NP after a polynomial transformation. and NP complete are problems which are both in NP and NP-hard Rashad: yes, what sbrg said, so, NP: a problem that, when given a solution, you can verify that it is correct in polynomial time NP-hard: a class of problems that can be converted to each other OK. OK. So NP-hard does not imply NP? Rashad: no, not necessarily No, problems that are harder than NP are in NP-hard too Ahhh Now that makes sense. *at least NP hard* Rashad: for instance, the Halting Problem is NP hard. OK now everything is in place for me. Rashad: good It gets complicated because we don't know the actual hard relationships between many of the complexity classes, like we don't actually know if P = NP or if there are problems in NP that aren't in P. Which leads to the famous question you've likely heard of. But I am interested by how you can map NP-hard problems from one to the other. Rashad: there's a 1 million USD prize for proving whether P is NP or not, kadoban: It got pretty philosophical fast :P P = ? Rashad: P is the class of polynomial problems P, the complexity class above, which is problems you can solve in polynomial time on a deterministic turing machine. I am a bit confused now.. NP, problems you can verify solutions to in polynomial time on a deterministic turing machine. OK so NP is about verification, P is about solving. Correct? Rashad: well yes, but you often want to find good solutions for NP problems What do you mean? Correct, though that's really just a definition used for picking which complexity class. In general we're still interested in getting the answer to problems in NP Ah. Rashad: P is the class of problems that can be *solved* in polynomial time. NP is the class of problems *whose solution can be verified* in polynomial time. So the concern is: Can you find a solution to NP problems faster than you can verify the given solution? Rashad: Assuming you mean "faster or as fast", well.. you just asked whether P = NP I see. if you have an answer to that question, someone will give you a million dollars But how is that not a philosophical question, though? Let me rephrase that. It depends, what's a "philosophical question"? kadoban: that is ^ lol Wouldn't a solution imply a way to verify it? But if you're asking if it has practical consequences, it does, potentially. Rashad: Well, take sudoku as an example OK! If I give you a solved sudoku, how long would it take for you to verify it? kadoban: What kind of consequences? it's the same every time. you just make sure that 1 to 9 appears in all rows, columns and boxes sbrg: OK however, does seeing the solution tell you how you solve it? How as in, which steps OK that's exactly what I am asking. Rashad: For example if P = NP, then quite a lot of cryptography isn't very well founded. That would mean there were "quick" (in one way of speaking) algorithms to solve hard problems that crypto relies on, such as discrete logarithm and integer factorization. How do you get an answer that is not completely random that in the same process of figuring it out you are unable to replicate the same logic into how you verify it? And we're still talking about computers here so I am not sure if Newton's apple aha moment counts... Rashad: sometimes it's easier to assert the validity a solution (P) than it is to explain it (NP) or... those reversed i forget. Rashad: well, how easy is it to verify a sudoku? it's very easy. it's the same steps every time. however, does that knowledge of the rules of the game allow you to also solve the puzzle in an equal number of moves it took you to verify it? sbrg: The solution however is ultimately guided by the rules of verification. sbrg: poorly formed... technically speaking it can be easier to solve some given sudoku puzzles than it is to verify they are solved Unless it is a complete shot in the dark. Gamah: and there are lists that are already sorted. that doesn't change the lower bound for sorting. what's your point? Rashad: Yes, it is. so one would think that it would be possible and as Gamah pointed out, some sudokus are very easy to solve, while others are much harder Rashad: no p :P the question is whether you can give an algorithm that guarantees that you can solve every sudoku within some time limit(in terms of the size of the input) that performs no more steps than you would verifying a sudoku sbrg: I'm saying you can't apply the act of solving and the act of verifying a "solved" sudoku to p=np because in the space of sudoku, either task could be on either side of the equation define "steps" because it always takes less steps to solve than verify... from some perspective rindolf: So solitaire is O(n)? Gamah: you don't seem to understand complexity theory. we're talking about sudokus in general. I can verify *any* sudoku in some bounded polynomial time Ah sorry, I meant verifying a solitaire solution is O(n)*. you can also solve any sudoku the question is whether I can somehow use the rules of verification to help me create a solution in at most as much time as it would take me to verify it. i.e. P vs NP iirc, NP-complete problems are ones where verifying a solution is polynomial time, but calculating a solution is non-polynomial Rashad: there are many variants of card solitaire sbrg: but the number of sudoku permutations and solutions is not unbound... Rashad: generalised Freecell is NP-complete Rashad: which assumes you have n ranks of cards instead of 13 (ace-to-king) Gamah: for a 9x9 sudoku, no, obviously not. but we are talking about sudoku in general hmm. Rashad: at any rate, the point is that we just don't know whether we can use the information that lets us verify solutions in polynomial time to also construct solutions in polynomial time i feel like sudoku is still a search problem (IE: rainbow table) and not really applicable Gamah: and how long would it take you to compute that rainbow table? by your logic, I can solve any problem that way. i can just create a database of all sorted lists. sure... .. just like i can create a database of all sudokus. if we fix n, then yes, it is bounded and you can just solve it in constant time. sbrg: Well, not really, you still have lookup time. Oh, for fixed n I guess that doesn't matter. constant time where a unit is defined to be the lookup time there you go! workmad3: that would depend on how well i could optimize the verification algo it's all about context sbrg: well, you can solve it in constant time, assuming the existence of an oracle :) the $1m question just says "a computer" and "in polynomial time" it doesn't say i can't spend years precomputing the search space :) i don't think you understand what P vs NP means Gamah: assuming the existence of an oracle is generally not classed as a solution to P vs NP i thought the smiley implied i was being pedantic Gamah: otherwise it would have been solved years ago :P workmad3: well i was just going to use oracle DB :) ##programming Freenode JetBrains’ Products Any cool JetBrains programs I should try out except for CLion? Kake_Fisk: I wish JetBrains would have sold and developed one IDE instead of several variations on the same one. Yeah! Will probably happen in the future. Visual Studio were also like that at one point if I recall correctly am i only the one who thinks pycharm is a heap of shit? q_q: Well, I couldn't even get pycharm to work q_q: I dunno, everyone seems to love it. Never tried it. ##programming Freenode Whose fault is it? o/ sir_galahad_ad: \o \o/ sir_galahad_ad: hi. \o/ |v| o= /o\ sir_galahad_ad: sup? hi rindolf not much is up, working on learning mysql sir_galahad_ad: ah sir_galahad_ad: I'm still feeling ill sir_galahad_ad: well, yesterday and the day before were better I'm sorry rindolf :( sir_galahad_ad: thanks! sir_galahad_ad: it's most likely not your fault butterflies... rindolf: I've been secretly adding arsenic to your coffee. Is that why you're sick? vdamewood: :-) heh , I don't drink coffee vdamewood: perhaps you also added that coffee with arsenic to my water Then whose coffee was it? ##programming Freenode Unforgivable ks sorry, wrong tab ChrisWarrick: I can never forgive you for using the wrong tab! ;-) J/K - everything's cool. however, there is a wrong tab tax payable to me rindolf: (arguably, wrong machine/screen/app/everything, because that went to irssi on screen 1 instead of the windows VM on screen 2) FMan: heh ChrisWarrick: you will go to hell for using the wrong window! ChrisWarrick: no redemption for you! rindolf, you mean, no Christmas presents? Zuu: no Chanukkah coins either! Ohnoes! :O is away He's hiding all the Chanukkah coins, i just know it! ##programming Freenode Blaming everyone My monitor is noisy! blames all of you Zuu_: guilty as charged! I made your monitor noisy because I hate you Arrrr *shakes fist at Evil rindolf* Zuu_: it was a late EvilChristmas present wraps it back up, and sends it back to Santa :P ##programming Freenode Putting the U in "FAQ" airking_: hi, see https://github.com/shlomif/Freenode-programming-channel-FAQ/blob/master/FAQ_with_ToC__generated.md#i-tried-joining-a-different-channel-for-help-but-i-could-not---why I wish we called them Frequently Uttered Questions instead of Asked. vdamewood: FUQ? I don't give a FUQ rindolf: FUQ off. vdamewood: :-) Frequent utterances concerning knowledge. vdamewood: heh beaky: Read the FUQing manual? Frequently unwanted common knowledge. ##programming Freenode Biological Garbage Collection I'm aiming to implement a chunk of a runtime and maybe a garbage collector and then finish the emitter to spit out QBE my apartment badly needs garbage collection (hi, BTW) FManTropyx: no-op garbage collector's an option :) you could add some rats, they take care of the organic garbage or rather, they compound multiple types of organic garbage into a single type adsc: and then add some cats to convert the rat problem into an extra type? which rat problem? adsc: the rat problem caused by introducing rats to solve your garbage problem :P rats are a problem? hmmm yes, it seems one cat per 5 rats should solve any "rat problems" So, you're saying for those who live near a farm, they need to get 65 cats? yes although I guess it doesn't scale up linearly heh each additional cat probably raises the number of total rats that can be dealt with so two cats might be able to deal with more than 10 rats poor rats also you should make sure the cats are neutered, or you will soon have to introduce dogs to solve a cat problem Fibonacci Sequence for cats -> rats problem. 5 cats -> 60+ rats killed. Wait, I'm wrong, get 15 cats. but it seems he has to deal with over 300 rats 65 cats it is. ##programming Freenode Upgrading https://dan-ball.jp/en/javagame/rockets/ , this website has a game, i would like to know how it was made, what technologies etc, its pretty old it says html5 and Java applet so if its in html5/js does that mean that i can see the source code of the game ? upgrades nickname95 to nickname98 upgrades nickname98 to nicknameNT VicMackey: heh upgrades nickname98 to nickname98SE Shoot. vdamewood: heh VicMackey: Back in the Windows 9x and NT4 days, Windows to Windows NT wasn't exactly a proper upgrade. Windows to Windows is usually never a proper upgrade I also have to say that I jumped from 98 to Xp Yeah, you can't really upgrade from Windows. Windows to Linux/Mac would be a terrible downgrade. Well, versions of Windows NT prior to XP were missing some things that made Windows not-NT more usable at home, I think. vdamewood: VicMackey: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKy9fV_zX_o rindolf how embarrassing VicMackey: :-) VicMackey: it was the start of a brave new era! That's when he decided he had to quit being the CEO of that company And retire ##programming Freenode Let me upgrade ya Pluralism GeDaMo: So, I, for example, showed them code for a DFA I wrote and explained how DFA's work. DFA? Department of Foreign Affairs? bananaJoe: deterministic finite automata automaton (automata is plural, automaton is singular) your mom is plural. ;-) J/K whistles in amazement! that's some abbreviation! automama :P ##programming Freenode Progressive Web Applications Hello! Is this UML diagram https://go.gliffy.com/go/share/sm4frpobsubifu6j6jv8 a correct example of the factory method design pattern? Zajt: is this homework? rindolf kind of, it's from school work but the purpose is not to make a UML diagram. I just try to explain the pattern by making this figure, but needs to be sure that it's correct so I don't miss anything in it Zajt: ah Zajt: it figures that it is schoolwork UML's main purpose is to keep CS profs employed and students busy SPEEDRAC1ST: heh Though the profs still suffer a concussion when doing both at the same time. rindolf what do you mean? Zajt: UML and Design Patterns are not oof much interest elsewhere design patterns became a buzzword recently also, "anti-pattern" yeah but did you read what I wrote above? I do it for a report in school so I have not an exercise that says "Write this UML-diagram", but I have done it myself just to illustrate the problem. But I want to make sure it's correct what I have done design patterns and anti-pattern are super old buzzwords what do you mean recently the last 30 years? recently there was a resurgence of those lol okay "we're kewl, we use JavaScript design patterns" Designu-patteru-jutsu are you a pattern-ninja? HAI! then join our innovative revolutionary startup which has lots of hype and VC monies Actually I think it is good to read about design patterns and anti-patterns, to just have in back of your mind. But to actively try and "apply" the "molds" is not really the intent of it some of those are neat. the ones that are about complexity management, and organization but most are barely necessary but overall, WTF would one need design patterns to make yet another web app? SPEEDRAC1ST: is it a disruptive startup? it's about to disrupt at least 3 industries SPEEDRAC1ST: heh Has anyone made a webapp for making webapps yet? WordPress Hah. but from a glance it looks like you have what I would expect out of a factory AI can drive cars, but can't make web apps yet My friend's friend is apparently working on a mobile app for making mobile apps. (Which my friend plans to use to make a mobile app.) There are tons of apps for making apps PlanckWalk: none of them are functional, since an emulator is required to run one also, they don't solve the distribution problem Hell, people can't even make decent apps yet... define decent Instagram and Snapchat are totally decent for uploading food pics and duckface pics SPEEDRAC1ST: They're several gigabytes larger than they should be snapchat? isn't that exclusively for sexting? you have phone apps that are multiple gigabytes? merijn: so is all software these days, except for embedded ongy: if you include the SDK, yes ongy: I'd like to introduce you to my friend, the hyperbole :) mobile apps themselves are 100s of MB Which is still huge for a program. these apps take hundreds of terabytes to display a single button! merijn: are they a boy or a girl? ;) fuck buttons well something I guess? I don't really know the task you are having from your teacher rts-sander: Ah, I see you too have downloaded slack? rindolf: Probably a boy, hyperbole is constantly 1-upping people ;) Groogy: Zajt: http://www.developermemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/java-problem-factory.jpg merijn: :) SPEEDRAC1ST: rofl SPEEDRAC1ST: heh, still funny hahaha Java is verbose hahahaha rts-sander: I refuse to download atrocities that spend 500+MB memory just to run IRC >.> I refuse to download atrocities full stop. irssi is taking 8MB after running for, like, 2 weeks straight in 15 channels... lightweight software is the best! merijn: Firefox sometimes takes 2+GB of RAM lets port it all to web applications what about weechat I had chrome at >3G. fun times i use it a lot its nice Facebook tab sometimes eats 100s of MB running all of the tracking and ad JS code I've had weechat running for more than a mount without restart 25mb rts-sander: heard of progressive web apps? ongy: WTF are you doing? Chrome is at, like, 1GB for me with 40 or so tabs open in 4 windows Chrome likes to eat RAM, that is known haha SPEEDRAC1ST here kwin_x11 consumes more RAM than firefox - no idea why there's an extension that counteracts Chrome's hunger for RAM. i forget the name of it, but it saves 90% Chrome's memory usage is increased a bit by the fact that it uses 1 process per tab, but it's not that drastic. Most of the gross memory usage that people blame on Chrome is just really "websites being shitty in the 2010s" rindolf: Is it huge, or is Firefox small? has my browser running faster rockman37: well, i recently restarted ff rindolf: Ah. xssposed: heh, nice nickname websites also have gotten a lot fatter probably due to ads We should stop feeding them or something. rindolf: heh, ty recently reduced the HTML of his site using https://github.com/kangax/html-minifier also, JS frameworks and libs are 100+K LoC SPEEDRAC1ST: are they webscale? maybe. they're responsive for sure http://shlomifishswiki.branchable.com/slash-dev-null_is_WebScale/ webscale is usually said about databases SPEEDRAC1ST: both responsive and progressive? Impossibru you can only have at most 1 progressive is the new buzzword, gotta replace them to keep the hype alive Man, the one JS keyword that pisses me off the most is "isomorphic", because that's not what isomorphic means, you jackasses SPEEDRAC1ST: are progressive web apps webscale enough? I want a /dev/null directory to copy things into... rindolf: come on. webscale is so 5 years ago :) ongy: use asynchronous writes merijn: I edited the “isomorphism” tag on Stack Overflow to explicitly refer to, you know, isomorphisms. :-p SPEEDRAC1ST: heh okuu: <3 ongy: Why? merijn: is it a reserved keyword? SPEEDRAC1ST: No, it's "running the same code on the client as on the server", or some shit JS's scope pisses me off the most. something as simple as accessing a variable inside foreach is complicated merijn: oh, you mean buzzword s/'s scope// SPEEDRAC1ST: Yeah, I haven't had my coffee yet SPEEDRAC1ST: But there is an excuse - JavaScript was designed in 10 days! ongy: mount /dev/null as /home Errr, designed and implemented. okuu: because Netscape managers rejected a Scheme-based language. and Self-based one too rindolf: Double-checking my solutions to my topology handout. I respect Brendan Eichman, because for something designed and implemented in 10 days JS is an impressive feat. But as language...god...fuck it okuu: Sounds more fun that figuring out how to formulate my API to work with 3 slightly different libraries that don't have a common API :) merijn: he proposed to use Scheme, Netscape said "no way". Then he decided to prank them with JS. and now we're paying for it rindolf: still a file, so I can't access /home/ongy merijn: because I wanted to direct an output directory to /dev/null before and it didn't work merijn: At least I'm allowed (in fact, required) to make sense. okuu: Trying to make my library play nicely with pipes, conduits, and just regular old forM/mapM...it's...tricky :p SPEEDRAC1ST: it needed to resemble Java ongy: I don't quite understand what "copying to /dev/null" is supposed to do, though? merijn: oooh - buzzwords but those are words rindolf: Hmm? merijn: why are you doing that? is it something you want others to use? merijn: "pipes", "conduits" rindolf: Haskell plumbing libraries. rindolf: They are haskell libraries :) merijn: ignore all output that should be written there. sometimes I need that ongy: Because I use a mix of pipes and conduits in different projects and I find myself reinventing the same boilerplate ongy: And I wanna be done with it once and for all I've learned about Cloud Haskell a few months ago I guess they chose the name for marketing reasons merijn, that "once and for all" bit sounds unconvincing rindolf: Basically, so that you can replace “going crazy debugging” with “doing crazy with types” when doing stream processing. Although the “going crazy debugging” is sometimes not completely avoided. mniip: Why? okuu: heh, sounds nasty rindolf: Yeah, but it's how Haskellers think. okuu: haskellers are crazy? rindolf: Everyone is crazy in their own way. I must say haskell debugging sucks okuu: true okuu: Haskell is just an API for common structures. why does everyone try to mimic imperative program debugging okuu: To be fair, conduits/pipes DO make some tasks that are really obnoxious in other languages really nice Or is that Ruby? functional semantics need to reflect respectively in the debugger They seem the same in a way. iawc: Ruby and Haskell? rindolf: Basically, they abstract over "I want to stream process data from a pipe/socket/file/whatever in constant memory" sounds like a job for a queue merijn: Then it turns out you want to backtrack, and everything goes to hell. rockman37: reminds me of that guy who said Visual Basic was essentially the same as C++ okuu: So, don't do that then :) okuu: I have plenty of cases where I don't need that okuu: If you need backtracking, use STM or something merijn: I have to admit, when you don't need to backtrack, pipes and conduit are very nice. rockman37: and then went on to try to create a lossless audio compression that could compress a 40 MB WAV file into 20 kB rindolf: Well, I wouldn't touch either :p SPEEDRAC1ST: Yeah, except that all the annoying bits of getting data, putting them in queues, adapting your code to read from them, etc. has all been done for you rindolf: Lossless? something something yoctoparsec rockman37: yes merijn: by the corresponding libraries? SPEEDRAC1ST: They're basically a bunch of tools for turning stuff like a parser for a single object you wrote into one that gets fed data on demands and output an object every time it finishes (with further tools to incrementally process those) SPEEDRAC1ST: It's not earth-shattering rocket science. It's just a bunch of really convenient tools that I haven't found an adequate replacement for in other languages merijn: Probably because they aren't conveniently expressible in other languages. :-p everything is possible when you have programmable semicolons rockman37: i think he was the one who was going on about that Planet Source Code thingy SPEEDRAC1ST: Think iterators on steroids. merijn: OK. I haven't had that exactly problem, but if I had I'd use something like Elixir's GenStage Programmable semicolons sound nasty. rindolf: Haven't heard of that. rockman37, ish, perl does that all the time "4.3 million lines of source code examples and apps to build from." Hmm... mniip: Interesting. howdy do dat? anyway, I remotely remember someone saying that monads (their do-block syntax specifically) are just programmable semicolons rockman37: under a contradictory licence rindolf: Serves users right, I say. ##programming Freenode SQL interfaces mpDrive->getLoc().list[i]->stats.getVal()->val; sometimes i wish object oriented programming was never invented Only sometimes? :P AbleBacon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Demeter oh my god this Law of Demeter is exactly the opposite of what we're doing does anyone know how to programmatically create a subtable in postgres? patientplatypus: not off hand patientplatypus: is there an sql syntax for that? AbleBacon: heh Would a subtable be like a view? errr.... i want to basically make a tree of tables like a json object patientplatypus: sound like it would stand against the normalisation rules what urge would possess you to make something as evil as a tree of tables? i understand the desire to do something to see if it can be done, but us mortals should not meddle in the workings of sorcery I'm making dnd in sql You might want to look up Common Table Expressions patientplatypus: the game? yeah patientplatypus: ah its a challenging problem LOL I'm picturing players taking their turns by submitting database queries with their requests but it would be useful to be able to use a tree structure I'm just making the game sheet There's at least one game like that if i get that working that would be a hat trick patientplatypus: you can encode trees using a table or two hmmm ADD "MOVE, 1" TO TABLE "MOVE_QUEUE_$PLAYER_NAME" AbleBacon: https://schemaverse.com/ i always feel like SQL people are screaming AHHHHH "Compete against other players using raw SQL commands to command your fleet." picard never had to do this patientplatypus: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=sql+tree&ia=qa "CAPTAIN, we've lost control of our primary command instruments! all commands to the ship will have to be issued via MICROSOFT sql queries" "... number one, give the order to abandon ship." AbleBacon: heh i may just use lots of tables without the tree - looks overly complicated patientplatypus: what? Why do you need trees of tables? oh well....i was thinking trees but it just looks like this would be sort of sucky AbleBacon: I'd be screaming too if I had to write SQL for a living. patientplatypus: every purpose should have a single table "you adopted capslock for internet arguments... i was born with capslock" I remember computers before lowercase was invented :P How is a game like flappy bird ported to so many systems? I mean what makes it so easy to port? I mean it's been ported to the snes,gba,etc "captain, our systems are down! we can only match enemy ships for targeting using regex!" "... number one, issue the command ".*"" "but sir there are civi-" "i give up" CashDash123: how complex is the game itself? no very jrslepak but how was the source code obtained or was it reverse engineered? CashDash123, the logic behind the game is very simple. if it was written in, say, C++ there's probably a C++ compiler for all of those systems. the only thing that would change really is how to display the graphics ah--birds were the key to the game's breakthrough into success i see unless the birds are just a RED HERRING! wait--is a herring a fish? or a bird? Yeah, the Inverse Laws of Game Design, the shorter the jump distance, the more popular it gets via word of mouth AbleBacon, the addiction of beating a high score lead to its popularity herring is a fish yes a type of tuna AbleBacon: heh salmon, not tuna then we need to invent "flappy herring" avoid sharks and other sea creatures idk For a warning, I think it's called red harring. Or haerring no, "red flag" is a warning. "red herring" is something that distracts you from the real thing shoot i don't know any more red herring is a fish. :/ red Sirens, maybe? it's also an idiom whose meaning is as AbleBacon described In Norse mythology, Sirens are blue. Or was it Greek? So red Sirens is like the shiny Pokemon that distracts you in real life. all those poor kids getting hit by cars looking at their phones hunting for pokemon True, Pokemon Go caused kids to get hit more often the best solution is to play it on the bus :-P you don't want to go on the bus in America it is not a nice place I was just there a few hours ago Does America only have one bus? :| haha it seems that way some evenings Leads me to question of how were games ported back in the day when you would have to downgrade a game to run on a system? A lot of hard work kinda like how lets say you have developed a dreamcast game while also having a Linux and windows port how does that work or even in reverse The game engine may have to be partly rewritten but the content (graphics etc.) should be reusable I mean I was thinking in a similar vain to Elysian Shadows which I'm pretty sure was designed around the dreamcast Which was tweaked most likely that or I may also get an Idea by reading quora Hmmm ... there's a #dreamcastdev channel GeDaMo: I thought dreamcast was stuff before I was born. Surprised that people still dev for it There's a also an #elysian_shadows channel but only one person in it People still develop for a lot of old systems It's been chronicled on youtube since they were in high school in 2007 horny-sama, The Dreamcast due to it's discontinuation date makes it more common to have a system without protection from playing burned cdr's though it's bad for the laser "bad for the laser"--a likely story OK I'm confused AbleBacon, well it was designed for GD-ROM how could it damage the laser, though? lasers don't have any moving parts! so here's my question: if i have a table with a, b, c, d, e and I want each of those 5 letters to reference 5 different tables A, B, C, D, E how would I do this in postgresql? I can link tables by foreign/primary key but I cant see how they actually reference the value its linking to so Why do you have 5 different tables? in dnd you have paladin, fighter, etc. I want each of those items to link to a table that contains their statistics. So one table with class names, several linked tables with different statistics GeDaMo, gotta have redundant table in case bobby drops them ;) Why can't this be in one table? all classes have strength, intelligence, etc. you should have one table for shared characteristics of all classes because each class is entirely different from another oh i see what you're saying well like wizard and fighter are so different that the tables need to be totally separate the way sql seems to want to work is that it just replicates tables in a single customer/many purchases type pattern does anyone have any suggestions? I'm totally lost and have been staring at this for a while I'm having difficulty visualising your DB structure so one table for classes (fighter, wizard, etc) each class will have its one table - fighter table, wizard table, paladin table with their own special statistics on each What fields do these tables have? each table will have entirely different fields (this is the problem- if they were similar it would not be an issue). so fighter has swords and fighting, and wizard would have spells etc i need what is essentially some sort of tree/json like hierarchy but in sql ltree seems very confusing what do you mean beaky? What do these tables represent? Are they like D&D character sheets? CashDash123: gd-rom? Yeah, IRC will do that to you :| horny-sama, It was Sega's specialized cd I think the reason the burned cd exploit had to do something with an exploit with the mil-cd format though Is it safe to assume that gd-rom is out of production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GD-ROM horny-sama CashDash123: did not say if it is out of production or not I don't think anyone can press there games to GD-Rom any more. I don't actually even own a dreamcast I just learned a bit about it long ago good luck with whatever you are doing sounds cool I figured it out hombre is pressed to mil-cd's why would anyone wanna press things onto GD-Ros any more? or why am I asking? don't quote me on that quote xeno: I think CashDash123 is doing some dreamcast dev horny-sama, I'm not CashDash123: so just quest for knowledge? horny-sama: yeah, but why? It would just be a good place to get an Idea of how a game is ported horny-sama: it's like the worst waste of time xeno: different people have different hobby yeah I know oh no... we're resorting to "scrum" meetings every morning. things must be getting really desperate. I mean how games are made for old consoles really is interesting AbleBacon: ? at my work and they pay me and all i have to do is not die https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/Scrum-1.JPG AbleBacon: in other words, you are their basic bitch horny-sama, You could say that,and I really wanted a dreamcast a long time ago it's not a giant wrestling orgy; it's a management technique Why not both? :D AbleBacon: just hope you made your fuck you money soon so you can quit lol AbleBacon: Your team just needs to move their organization to Sloth® so that all of their personal data can be sold to advertisers Then you'll be truly efficient And of course SourceHub™ to organize your Packer images ##programming Freenode ZERO nirvana hello narupo: hi narupo: how are you? rindolf: hi rindolf. I'm fine :) narupo: nice rindolf: sup? narupo: I'm fine - trying to be productive narupo: i reached inbox ZERO nirvana rindolf: hm rindolf: inbox is mail box? narupo: the email https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/in-box#English rindolf, wait, you can be productive while being in irc? rindolf: thanks. rindolf: what is "ZERO nirvana"? rindolf: inbox zero?! wtf? narupo: an empty inbox narupo: and nirvana means a state of bliss ah, I thought it was the penultimate opposite of nirvana ie. zero nirvana rindolf: ah, thanks. nirvana :) incidentally, my music collection is also ZERO nirvana narupo: see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana wXeno: the fuck! my bank account is ZERO nirvana ;) FManTropyx: ah narupo: heh FManTropyx: inbox zero's nirvana rindolf: on one of mine I got 5.5gb of mails (maybe 10k in my inbox for the last year) - for the other one I don't know, but 2-3000 unread the nirvana of inbox zero wXeno: ouch wXeno: i once saw a screenshot of a gmail.com account with 130K unread messages in the inbox wXeno: anyway, i hate clutter if you don't tend to it, then that goes fast rindolf: me too, but it's hard to avoid when I can get some hundreds of mails with actual content in an average/slightly busy day rindolf: and enough of references and long running topics that I can't delete old mails without losing relevant info wXeno: i move away emails to other folders rindolf: me too rindolf: and I delete what I can wXeno: ah wXeno: now i have an empty inbox in my gmail account too rindolf: damn, how? you delete everything? I get like 4 emails per day. Heh I get about 4 emails I actually read a day too, and another 40-60 with content I might or might not care about :P wXeno: no rindolf: you made a mail address which violates the SMTP protocol? wXeno: no rindolf: you made it 17 seconds ago, and miraculously Google failed at sending the welcome mails? rindolf: ah you moved them to another folder all mails from *@* -> inbox2 doesn't count :) wXeno: in this case i deleted them wXeno: but i don't delete all emails ##programming Freenode Nomable browsers mozzilla no longer makes thunderbird? mozilla mozzarilla mozarella foxfire > goggle charm mentalita: I'm not sure, I haven't really cared about thunderbird for probably a decade what do you use xeno outlook? at work outlook, at home gmail and yeah, I know that means Google has all my mail but at least it means *someone* has my mail, as opposed to the mail I had before I started to use gmail, which is lost forever <occultus> mozarella foxfire > goggle charm ... no... micirosluft adge > life macrohard straightedge > netscoop occultus, what about papple lafari? isn't pear souffle barely maintained now? occultus, I think they gave up on it lol Gotta admit though, I wish Microsoft was my dad so that it would continue supporting me for some god forsaken reason even though I'm a disappointment lmao heh snake2k: i was of the opinion Microsoft commonly killed of its "children" just as it got useful or common so maybe a bad father to have no support post 18 years end of life support :P snowmancantcode, hahahaha lol "son, you're a grown man now. You must die." ##programming Freenode German as he is spoke 36 files changed, 160 insertions(+), 1118 deletions(-) ==> a very productive night nice tighten it up? I'd like to club my old self who just copy pasted and modified CSS code ha "let's just say I got rid of A LOT of extraneous whitespace" ;) bavi: heh bavi: i can probably save even more lines by converting the Contents.pm files to YAML Why do people use Rust? Is it a form of Stockholm syndrome? I mean, any child could see that this language is overcomplicated Yet they act like it's all fine hio: i feel that ponylang is more complicated than rust ponylang has a GC, how can it be more complicated just the weirdo decision from the Rust team to wrap lambda arguments with | args | is crazy they did that just to make parsing easier. Can you imagine? Wow hio: well, admittedly i didn't study rust too closely hio: ruby has that too They actually thought that making their parsing job slightly easier justifies making the language weirder and introducing new syntax that doesn't resemble function calls at all even though lambdas are basically exactly like functions hio: this night I reduced my codebase by close to a 1,000 lines that's great bro, you should start a facebook blog hio: i have a facebook and stuff I'm talking about really important issues hio: my latest tweet sparked some interest there hio: you are obsessed w discussing various languages I have hopes for both ziglang and jailang. Odin seems okay too but it's really hard to keep track of a language that resides only in youtube videos rindolf, bad languages are the reason why software sucks so much literally if we only get one good language, everything else will be fixed within a matter of months to years hio: a lot of software apps i use are OK people are so thirsty for better languages, they jumped on Rust and Golang like crazy can you imagine? it just shows how bad we have it hi tttb: hi, sup? jailang will be released this year, are you ready yet rindolf ? rindolf: i want my interface in Java to have attributes but they can't hio: should i be? tttb: ah should i use an abstract class or should i just give each concrete class the attributes and use an interface? tttb: you can also define accessors i know, i'll use an abstract class for the attributes and an interface for the methods rindolf, what do you think? don't you want 0.2 sec compile times? or is that dumb 0.2 sec to compile an application that has c++ features and c++ speed is incredible you should switch to it as soon as it's available https://www.xkcd.com/303/ :D hio: sounds good - what will its licence be? bavi: :) bavi: i broke the travis build though :( rindolf: oh no! as soon as I got a passing build i disabled travis for that repo ;) bavi: i suspect it is because i didn't install uglify-es bavi: my projects are becoming chimeras rindolf, MIT ur welcome what language are you using now? perl, python, c, cmake, c++, website meta lang, javascript, ruby, gnu make, and more hio: i use more than one half of those are bad why use perl, ruby, make? dude hio: they are OK i just said that they aren't okay at all hio: that was to bavi BTW hio: you are entitled to my opinion can someone please explain what the point of an interface is when an abstract class provides all its functionality? in Java hio: one reason is that i have a lot of legacy perl code and it needs to be maintained tttb: you can inherit from more than one interface just rewrite ur perl wait until jailang is released though OK hio: heh i read the first few chapters of the gnu make manual the other day, i like how it's written hio: i will rewrite all my perl code into $FASHION_LANGUAGE by hiring Chuck Norris, who will complete it in an hour and charge me 10,000,000 USD bavi: :) bavi: gmake now integrated guile scheme I didn't know chuck norris could code... i figured he'd just punch the computer and it would give him what he wanted... Era_Scarecrow: the computer just does what he wants Era_Scarecrow: by pure intimidation hio: i like the mit licence it is my go to licence for my own projects rindolf: Hello. Could you please take a look at my code? usr123: it seems fine, but you may have off-by-one errors rindolf & usr123> I'd have looked at it, but i don't use python, so i don't know. Era_Scarecrow: python is easy perhaps, I'm not familiar with it, although it would mostly be syntax I'd have to get familiar with. Era_Scarecrow: someone once told me he was able to look at python code and immediately be able to tweak it without knowing it Era_Scarecrow: i think he already knew perl 5, though Any reason to use fish over zsh? FriesAndSriracha: i am still using bash ditto, i also use bash... Depends on if there's a specific feature you need or not. FriesAndSriracha: i found zsh too incompatible w bash rindolf: Well in that case, I'm just returning if today is 7 and food is less or else I'm returning the first element of the array. even if it iterates one more or less would it affect the output? rindolf: I am still on Bash as well, I just wanna follow the bandwagon ;) FriesAndSriracha: ah bandwagon == coolKids Fries> why would you want to jump on a bandwagon? I don't see the point... So that's why I was wondering if anyone here has used both fish and zsh and which one is better Or the pros and cons of both rindolf: also, what you mean by incompatible with bash? FriesAndSriracha: csh is the bestest! http://www.shlomifish.org/open-source/anti/csh/ FriesAndSriracha: i think $var does not expand words by default good morning everybody :) FriesAndSriracha: the only thing better than csh is CMD.EXE I guess there's plugins for that FriesAndSriracha: j/k FriesAndSriracha: there is an option SigSegOwl: hoooooo unable to ask questions on their forum as well. Seems like I don't have enough points. This is bad I mean zsh seems to have a way bigger community than fish is there a competitive programming channel on freenode? why do hdmi to dvi cables only work one way ? or even hdmi to displayport o.O ? SigSegOwl: physics possibly Csh :P let me ask it a little bit differently... why can't i connect a screen that has vga, dvi, dp to a pc that only has hdmi xD SigSegOwl> Use a hammer... it will fit... Era_Scarecrow: hammer the screen or the pc ? FriesAndSriracha: i am reminded of this too - http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=more-advanced-than-CVS SigSegOwl> Hammer the connection into one of your ports... so... sort them all Era_Scarecrow: heh http://rinkworks.com/stupid/cs_abuse.shtml Is there any CLI centric channel on Freenode? try joining #bash? That's pretty counterproductive ;) Although if you go to one of the Linux rooms they might be helpful Considering I am trying to move away from Bash so there is no way to connect dvi or dp to hdmi ? Ask in ##hardware ? SigSegOwl> Without a converter, probably not... Era_Scarecrow: heh, funny link rindolf> Go back one level and there's ALL TYPES of topics.. programming, hardware, scammers... techno mumbo jumbo no one else understands :P Is there a competitive programming channel on freenode? usr123: you can discuss it here usr123> Hmmm maybe... Can't get more competitive than say CRobots though usr123: problem is there are many CP sites see ya later then :D heading to work... SigSegOwl: hooooo Well. I did post my code. I just can't figure out the corner case I might be missing. usr123: try #algorithms l2y: Thanks. on it Era_Scarecrow: ah I don't know what channels there are, because when i go to look over the list of channels or search through them.... there's so many and my client isn't very good at searching channel lists, so hope you have the exact title of something... Era_Scarecrow: this is easy. you just Google "irc <yourtopic>", then find the first crawler, look at the number of members, and if it's legit, join l2y> Maybe. I've also just joined rooms to see if they are empty or not :P Here it's midnight... i should sleep soon Era_Scarecrow: i stayed up all night refactoring old CSS stylesheets fun... Era_Scarecrow: i ended up reducing the codebase by close to a thousand lines Sass! FriesAndSriracha: no sass yet fun fun. I got a script for reducing the size of a differential data backup up and running FriesAndSriracha: i just consolidated the CSS directives Sass changes lives :) Era_Scarecrow: great FriesAndSriracha: i like sass yeah... the big pain in the butt was trying to get diff and patch to work on potentially differing newline types, without it replacing whole files just because it was \n instead of \r\n lines or whatever FriesAndSriracha: ah, are you a fan of the sriracha sauce? rindolf: sure am ;) FriesAndSriracha: ah , i like it too Era_Scarecrow: i see Mostly because if that Garlic *of Era_Scarecrow: i use individual tarballs for backups Era_Scarecrow: i have a 1 tb ext hard disk Era_Scarecrow: and i exclude various large dirs that i don't need backed up mhmm... i have a backup script that runs every 6 hours taking files newer than my last backup and saving it, means the files are about 3Mb per backup per day. then when i get around to plugging in my other drive, just copy the backups and I'm golden. Era_Scarecrow: ah but when i run my script, i can remove unnecessary inclusions cutting the size down to something like 100k, and then with diff/patch, down to 60k per day Well you can use rsync gah... i was talking down the dark hallway and accidentally kicked/stepped-on the cat and one of her incisors went right into my heel s/talking/walking :) bavi: :( And that's why folks use your phone's LED Fries> Not sure how I'd use it, as this is the only running computer in the house right now... she is fine though :) bavi: ah bavi: Ohhh, the ways in which cats can educate us about their ways ... =) Era_Scarecrow: oh now she has the zoomies bavi: you should have got a fluorescent cat I'll totally get cats again when I have kids. *pull* - "Don't pull its tail!" - *pull* - "DON'T PULL ITS TAIL!" - *pull* -- *claw* -- *cry* - "I told you not to pull its tail!" hah http://theoatmeal.com/comics/cat_kill bavi: there was this manx kitten who was born with metallic green fur rindolf: Heh. We had a cafe across a place I used to work to. They had a waitress who brought her big black dog in (looked like a golden retriever, except it was pitch black; are there pitch-black retrievers?) ... I suggested she could dye some fluorescent racing stripes into its fur. :D bavi: i saw a photo of him in the newspaper FriesAndSriracha: I actually still have to read that book. :S rindolf, what is a MUST HAVE feature for a programming language? rindolf: that's cool :) SlashLife^work: same situation here ;) integers i personally really enjoy the automatic typing in typescript where a struct automatically gets a type if it fits the interface. I think it's called duck typing but not entirely sure FriesAndSriracha: Also have it lying around already? x) i mean it makes perfect sense, if some data structure has the exact same fields as an interface that i defined then just let it have that type immediately it's not duck typing because you still have to cast in Typescript hio: see http://shlomif-tech.livejournal.com/57811.html Any point in learning Golang now? FriesAndSriracha: to hack on golang projects rindolf, i don't subscribe to this middle of the road crap "everything sux, get over it" attitude. There is right and wrong in the world, period "You are damned either way, whatever you do." <-- very stupid attitude to have hio: And C++ is on the right side ... mostly. :D c++ is just about the worst possible language that can exist My current languages of choice, include AHK and D... hit me with some new and exciting c++ features, I'm sure they are ridiculously complex and useless Google is a LLC now? hio: I need a toolbox that gets the job done, not a crate full of useless, but exciting, gimmicks. hio: what is better: English, Hebrew, French, German, Arabic, Spanish, Swahili, Japanese, Mandarin, ... German I'll take a screwdriver over a fidget spinner every day. Also another language I've been hearing about is Haskell Haskell is a toy language, people only use it when they want to appear smart Can we do server side coding with it? FriesAndSriracha: You can do server side coding with almost every language. FriesAndSriracha: If it can do console I/O on any modern OS, it can do server side web. SlashLife^work: I know that but is it a popular or niche thing , that's the question FriesAndSriracha: Look up CGI. :D FriesAndSriracha: I know people who use Haskell for web. i mean look at this thing in c++: "auto glambda = [](auto a, auto&& b) { return a < b; };".. what's with the random array []? What is the array here??? hio: we are not talking in German, are we? I don't think they based their whole server side stack on it, though ... but I actually don't know. rindolf, we don't live in a perfect world, do we? hio: It's not an array. It's an empty capture. hio: no. great that we worked that out So this means there's no big projects using Haskell? hio: So you're complaining that [] can have three different meanings? yes hio: Good luck with () then. () only has one meaning It does? yes, it means group up hio: German has three genders, and some inanimate objects are male or female - like wtf? int x = foo(); double y = (2.0/3.0); int z = (int)y; ... I was thinking of at least one more a moment ago. Sorry guys, I was just a web developer, took a long break and now trying to get into coding again it still all means "group up". even the cast hio: and a damsel is neuter hio: BS hio: Oh, the [] always means "index" it never means that wow int[10] does not mean index FriesAndSriracha: what do you wish to do? rindolf: mostly to learn some kinda language FriesAndSriracha: ah I know, HTML and CSS, and shell scripting Either that something can have indices (void foo(int[])), or that something *has* indices (int arr[32]), or that you want to access an index (int x = arr[3]), or which indices from the current scope you want to capture (auto lambda = [arr,&x](){ x = *arr; }) FriesAndSriracha: ah And can use git FriesAndSriracha: ah. But that's about it it her than by basic understanding of JavaScript hi helloz FriesAndSriracha: can you write fizz buzz? OK SlashLife^work, so it "accesses" variables inside the current scope as if the scope is an array. That's a complex way of seeing it but fine xqb: mew s/her/other bsd bsd bsd irc irc bsd shoos rindolf dem cats xqb: cats are damn cute rindolf: oh Tom Scott made a video about it FriesAndSriracha: about what? FizzBuzz I mean FriesAndSriracha: ah FriesAndSriracha: see https://github.com/shlomif/Freenode-programming-channel-FAQ/blob/master/FAQ_with_ToC__generated.md#what-is-fizzbuzz Whose GitHub page is this? Lotsa nice info ;) FriesAndSriracha: someone i tutored was able to solve fizz buzz after the first few lessons FriesAndSriracha: i am shlomif on gh Oh nice :) FriesAndSriracha: there were some other contributors to the faq FriesAndSriracha: and it may be somewhat opinionated Thanks for this, I've been out of this whole things for so long FriesAndSriracha: thanks FriesAndSriracha: you're welcome I think getting into Python would be a good idea FriesAndSriracha: i think so too FriesAndSriracha: python is easy to learn rindolf: yep I am kinda stuck between what to learn, to be honest FriesAndSriracha: ah, i know that feeling People are suggesting Python, Ruby, Go... I vote for Python. hi etc and even JavaScript High? i am not! Node I mean oops wrong chan I vote for ruby :) /me hi5s vdamewood FriesAndSriracha: What do you already know? FriesAndSriracha: it reminds me of the philosophical dog that stands in equal distance between two identical piles of food and ends up starving to death puts mozzarella on FriesAndSriracha and eats them both I was a web developer, so no programming language, HTML, CASE, Shell scripting etc rindolf: share! vdamewood: :) CASE? (Typo of CSS?) s/CASE/CSS vdamewood: autocorrect actually that's Buridan's donkey FriesAndSriracha: ah Hey look, someone who doesn't think HTML is a programming language. rindolf: I know how that dog feels ;) it is a donkey vdamewood: writing HTML is kinda programming though kicks the donkey. It's time to kick ass! rindolf: I don't believe it it as all. heh FriesAndSriracha: :) Oh and basic Unix tools, and Git That's all I know FriesAndSriracha: OK, then learn python +1 py Seems reasonable FriesAndSriracha: If you're looking for suggestions of real a real programming language to learn, go with Python. it has Django and Flask. I prefer Django. and bottle But Ruby has Rails and Sinatra too ;) Ruby is also not Python. Which is a point against Ruby. FriesAndSriracha: the ruby hype seems to have mostly passed away Though, Python, Ruby, and Java are all fine languages for beginners. Python is just slightly better. rindolf: I know people are hyping Golang now Everything else is terrible for beginners. FriesAndSriracha: and rust Golang is also on my terrible-for-beginners list. And Kotlin maybe FriesAndSriracha: and node.js when I was starting, I was looking up how the same program (was it hello world?) looks like in different languages I found C#'s syntax to be the most appealing to me so I went with C# :) xqb: OK xqb: Probably. Hello world is fairly popular for language juxtaposition. the first language is always the hardest to learn I can't really go with C# !fgoogle juxtaposition I doubt it runs on Linux FriesAndSriracha: it does it does but not as expected Mono is crap and you can't do WPF FriesAndSriracha: even .NET core from Microsoft and 100+ things Python it is then ;) FriesAndSriracha: sure xqb: justa- next to/besides. juxtoposition: to position next to/beside; to compare by placing side by side. FriesAndSriracha: it runs on Linux, and does so rather well as of today s/justa/juxta/ l2y: I mostly wanna do Server site coding thanks :) Well, Juxtaposition means the act as a noun. The verb is juxtapose. s/site/side Thanks a lot rindolf again! FriesAndSriracha: OK, whatever. just proving you wrong, so that you don't doubt any more Also thanks vdamewood Bah, I didn't so anything significant. l2y: oh I didn't know FriesAndSriracha: you're welcome rindolf: I think you should also include Video tutorials in your Python resources I want to teach some stuff now. 'd like to know what is unit testing and how do I start writing tests and what's a good read for testing xqb: Unit testing is when you write code that makes your other code works properly. For example, if you have a function called addtwo(x), you would write a functions like this: a = addtwo(3); if a == 5, return true; else return false; what's a unit in my code? a function/method? a .. line? what A separate program. Well, it could also be a function or collection of functions. I'm testing a separate program in my program? why don't I test my program directly? nigga You're not testing your program; you're testing parts (units) of your program. return a == 5 If I really wanted to go that fare: return addtwo(3) == 5 far* well you should assert addtwo(3) == 5 and then I run pytest in the background and I've tested a unit? xqb: That might work, but it doesn't look like PyTest is specifically for Unit testing. rindolf: but great resources still, thanks FriesAndSriracha: you're welcome I see is TDD (Kent Beck) a good book? xqb: quite xqb: most of it is redundant I know what you think rindolf, you're the one who recommended it :P xqb: ah A "unit" is generally an internal API contract. Often a function or method. what's an API contract xqb: i can recommend against a different one - https://mail.perl.org.il/pipermail/perl/2010-April/010909.html mozzarella: yes A specification for how one part of a system can use another. I see Oh that reminds me of this site https://hackr.io/ xqb: Many unit-testing frameworks follow the design of a Java unit-testing framework called JUnit. Though, this isn't strictly required, it sure does help organize things. xqb: https://docs.python.org/3/library/unittest.html FriesAndSriracha: you can submit a pull-req for it rindolf: I have to find some good ones first though :) FriesAndSriracha: you can put the link to the site for all langs vdamewood: I'll look at it, gtg, bbl, tyvm Laters xqb: bye Hello friends: Jasparon: meow Do programmers care about logic gates, or do I need to study EE/CE? rindolf: Long time no C Jasparon: we do rindolf: Who is we? Jasparon: programmers who work with logic gates care about logic gates :) Gtg Jasparon: there are bitwise and logical operators Uggggh.... FriesAndSriracha: bye rindolf: see ya Suppose I want to get into how logic gates design works (theory), and I one day want to build custom circuits. Jasparon: i am a software dev who studied EE/CEish Should I get an intro electronics book; or an intro circuits book? Jasparon: and graduated Ok sure :) Jasparon: well, not sure i can call what i studied CE rindolf: Right. Jasparon: IME its better to find a project that interests you and start working on it YMMV Jasparon: it is technically EE proper, but calling me an electrical engineer would be a stretch IME? I find books helpful for things like design patterns and best practices, but not for code brwr: I know, but I want to learn how electronics work, and how computer electronics work rts-sander: in my experience Jasparon: the Technion is funny rindolf: Maybe you're just a electronics-competent programmer? brwr: ah I see, I thought it was misspelled IMO Jasparon: +1 Jasparon: i am clueless around electronics brwr: Ok neat brwr: Well, would you recommend I get: 1. Intro CE book. 2. Intro electronics. 3. Intro circuits? Which one? Jasparon: they never showed us how to replace a lightbulb Jasparon: wait a sec rindolf: 0, because it's a hardware issue Jasparon: i don’t know enough about electronics to make a recommendation. Sorry! morning Jasparon: https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/computation-structures - this book is nice Jasparon: and there is also http://www.nand2tetris.org/ IRC on mobile is sadface I get disconnected if I turn my screen off Jasparon: i suggest you start from a high level prog lang Jasparon: something like python Jasparon: how good is your math? rindolf: So, I know about formal logic enough to know things like De Morgan's, but I still need to take college algebra Thanks for the books Jasparon: you're welcome rindolf: Here is a good question: Jasparon: logic can get pretty complicated and impractical Really? What's a good place to build objects? I think main? Jasparon: at least the one that is under active research What's under active research? Jasparon: you can also build them int he methods of other objects Jasparon: logic correct. I think it's "not good" to create objects in the instance-scope? Jasparon: why not? rindolf: I tried constructing an instance of my class, in the instance-level in Java; stackoverflow Jasparon: otherwise you'll have a cluttered main func Makes sense Jasparon: ah Jasparon: you need to limit your recursion rindolf: Right. But I was so confused because my constructor was empty. Jasparon: or use iterative tree recursion with a dedicated stack Good idea hm, low level detail question on C's memory allocation; if i request 200MB of memory via malloc will that be virtual-addressed memory or real memory locations? rindolf: I should be going :) Jasparon: where? mvaenskae: hi mvaenskae: it depends where the program is running\ Heehee... GTG :) rindolf: hm, in kernel mode it would then get the bare memory locations i take mvaenskae: possibly mvaenskae: kernel code does not have malloc() usually ponders on reworking the sorting algos to not work with explicit arrays but a struct of linked/doubly-linked lists... mvaenskae: at least the Linux kernel doesn't hm, i could obviously adapt that to get the proper Linux kernel function but it could still fail due to fragmentation in allocation a large enough section mvaenskae: heh but i just realized my approach doesn't scale to structs to pointers to the next element, only to arrays of structs mvaenskae: is your allocations are not enormous, kernel won't move a page from virtual memory to disk, and virtual memory provides constant time access, so, why bother? s/is/if/ mvaenskae: small optimisations can add up to a lot, but if your program can afford to be sub-optimally slower, then so be it rindolf: i don't so much care for performance than for stability; people somewhat OK in C should be able to understand how I approached different sorting algos within the constraints of C in the most generic way and can use them for their own projects about as easily as importing my stuff mvaenskae: see https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Optimizing_Code_for_Speed/Factor_Optimizations#Are_%22Small%22_Optimizations_Desirable? mvaenskae: stability? if it comes to just speed and i have a fixed interface i would have just commenced; i just realized my approach is not the most generic one mvaenskae: if you want your program to behave then keep it out of the kernel Morning l2y: i was mostly thinking of the problems on fragmentation :) rindolf: why keep it out of the kernel? rindolf: sup? mvaenskae: because code running in kernel land can do untold damage\ Rashad: i refactored some CSS stylesheets Rashad: shaved a thousand lines rindolf: well, it's the kernel :) i expect nothing less of the system than request a sacrifice to boot again if i break it ;) rindolf: Do you use CSS normalization libraries? rindolf: Wow! Nice Rashad: no whitespace lines? :) Rashad: it is for my talks at http://www.shlomifish.org/lecture/ Rashad: the quad-pres ones rts-sander: no mvaenskae: again, what can you do about it? nothing. malloc already allocates a contiguous block of memory, if you are in a kernel space, which you should never be in, you don't have malloc. you are provided with an interface and are bound to what the interface reveals about itself rindolf: I don't know if you need this, but it's used by Twitter, GitHub and more: https://necolas.github.io/normalize.css/ Rashad: i had done a lot of copying and tweaking l2y: i may to do kernel development ;) and i wanted to clarify the memory pages returned :) i assumed them to be VA but it's early in the morning and i wasn't fully awake to properly recall :) Neat Rashad: ah Rashad: it was bad I can imagine. Rashad: i had to consolidate my directives What directives? Rashad: the css ones You mean like :hover and stuff? Not sure I know what css directives are. The ones with the @? right now only userland and there i have now been verified how malloc works :) my aim is trying to eventually be able to write C code that is as generic as possible Rashad: see https://github.com/shlomif/shlomi-fish-homepage/commits/master Rashad: no Rashad: i mean regular rules like b { color: red; } Ah. That's a lot of commits :D Rashad: yes Rashad: the site dates back to 1997ish Wow. Rashad: but i used svn->hg->git for it relatively later What's that? Rashad: first i used svn Rashad: then moved to hg and finally git Ah those are versioning systems? Rashad: yes I see I see. looks like you finally did git gud rts-sander: the main reason why i switched it to github was travis-ci rts-sander: well, and hg does not seem to become more popular never heard of hg rts-sander: heh rindolf: but do you like git itself more than the other systems? rts-sander: it isn't too bad, but has its share of quirks rts-sander: not sure rts-sander: i still kinda miss the simplicity of the svn model. i don't feel i understand git Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. git is too complicated the only thing I use is push and pull morning velco I've gotten decently proficient in git yo :) rindolf: do you also have experience with version control software in team settings or just solo projects? git is love, git is life rts-sander: also in teams (that said, I was pretty happy with Mercurial too) rts-sander, i haven't :) svn broke more often than not when I tried it with other people one does not have to understand git rts-sander: git rebase can be a bitch too one needs to know just enough of it, in order to accommodate their workflow velco: well, git threw me off quite a lot if you have a lot of conflicts yeah velco: good thing there is #git here git is advanced but there's no simplicity layer users are thrown right into the deep Yeah. velco: https://xkcd.com/1597/ rindolf, without clicking it, I know what it is :D velco: :) but just clone/checkout/push/pull/branch/rebase are sufficient to 99.937% if what I need to happen s/if/of/ cherry-pick too velco: commit haha, yeah log diff deletes velco 's git-commit script welcome to hell restores git worktree from the backup lets do a pull req on git's git to remove git-commit velco: git bisect is also useful lol I actually did that when I was a git noob rts-sander: The simplicity layer of git is "Just use Mercurial" back then the team I worked with worked on Windows and we had problems with file name case sensitivity merijn: hg threw me off too rindolf: How so? merijn: meh once you learn git it's good merijn: don't remember merijn: and i hate its heads misfeature is it generally correct to say that jump instructions modify the program counter the same way an add instruction might modify a normal register? rts-sander: Yeah, but why would I bother when I already knows Mercurial and it's so much simpler to learn? :) merijn: good point, there's no reason to learn something more complex when you already have something that works that's why I'm not going through the effort of learning Haskell :D I don't think git is even that much more complex than mercurial rts-sander: heh It just has really shit UI/UX UI? heh I just use the cmd line merijn: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worse_is_better perhaps rts-sander: cmd line is ui too rts-sander: I'm referring to the cmd line UI is UI, graphical or not Is it really true that to learn some language, try to build something that one have no idea how to start in that language loginoob: i never did that loginoob: perhaps try to contribute to an existing codebase ah, I assumed UI = GUI yeah I agree it's confusing at times for example git checkout -- path, git checkout branchname, git checkout -b newbranch all do something completely different rts-sander: also see http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=djb-on-cmd-interfaces rts-sander: I think this summarises it accurately: http://stevelosh.com/media/images/blog/2010/01/mercurial-vs-git.jpg merijn: heh git is easy until you fuck up loginoob: Then you just Google and copy&paste cryptic lines from blogposts until either all your data is gone or it's fixed :p oh hg = mercurial lol GAHHH! OCD!! >_<" true rts-sander: Because nobody wants to type a command as long as "mercurial" :p merry: You are a haskeller right? shit I have a directory, an archive and an executable, all by the name of "qt-" in subsequent lines on the same terminal. "ls" colored them blue, red and green respectively ... merijn: ... which means they do not perfectly line up because they use different subpixels. ... which annoys the hell out of me. loginoob: I program in Haskell among other things, yes :p GAAAAAHHHH!!!! Cannot ... unsee ... ;_; SlashLife^work: Your life could be worse SlashLife^work: you could probably remove the colors from ls env TERM=dumb ls sight has been unseen writes a bullshit generator for git commit comments =) merijn: Well, I guess it confirms my 20/10 vision. vendu: http://sebpearce.com/bullshit/ rts-sander: That won't help me now that I *know* they'd be offset when in color. :| bbs lunch :) SlashLife^work: Could have all your experimental results stored on a cluster fileshare with a deadline tomorrow only to realise the cluster is down for maintenance until late today >.> merijn: Yup. Maintenance is until Friday. And they moved the deadline from next Monday to yesterday. (On last Friday afternoon.) That would so be happening if I was still working at my previous job. >_> ##programming Freenode Imaginary Mohawk xoryo: hi xoryo: i got a hair cut rindolf: you cut off your dreadlocks? adsc: i didn't have ones what? you cut off your imaginary dreadlocks? I hope you didn't have to pay for that adsc: heh I'll never cut off my imaginary mohawk cuts off adsc 's imaginary mohawk is an imaginary bastard accuses rindolf of imaginary cruelty and files a case at the international court of human rights in The Hague CRIMES AGAINST IMAGINATION adsc: the imaginary one? no, your crime is real *imaginary court of human rights in The Utopia adsc: imaginary real? yeah, it's complex adsc: nice better than imaginary integer the subject of the crime is imaginary, but the crime itself is real flees to an imaginary haven plots rindolf on the Gaussian plane there you are conspires against the plot liste: Finnish people are over-represented on IRC rts-sander, let me find the rules for everyone Finnish people invented IRC :P maybe some irc channel is selling alcohol??? xqb: i know :p though most Finns hang out in IRCnet vendu: I've wanted to make a console based cracking game in forever, but I'm always too lazy Finns invented getting drunk FMan: they did not FMan: the jewish bible describes Noah getting drunk rindolf: it's a joke, Finns are known to get extremely drunk exio4: yes rindolf: Now you know why he got stuck on a mountain. people were getting drunk and high way before any bible that, too xqb: true rindolf: That's how people got from paradise to Finland. :D Finland is the End of Land. :/ SlashLife^work: :) it's the north pole, they're Santa's buddies there is nor way out of there Oh, how Sweden of you. :/ wedr_: :) Nah, that's not sweed en actually even quite mean. :( sweeden weeden https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/21506/new-mastermind this is paradise: https://www.memecenter.com/fun/146294/Meanwhile-in-finland adsc, console mastermind would be quick to program FMan: what, sunbathing? yeah code 8 hours, relax 8 hours (including working out etc), sleep 8 hours liste: No time to eat. :( maybe it's contained in relaxing liste++ and partly coding :) Eating is for humans, we're all perl scripts here. snake2k++ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) snake2k: heh I have a feeling rindolf has the freenode FAQ links on a open text file all the time lmao So... relax is actually just sleep + bath/shower + play + walk dog + caring baby + make breakfast/lunch/dinner + pay bills + do tax returns + get mad and argue with wife + cry? weeirc8089, >_< snake2k, me too wedr_: Cuddle cat! wedr_, oh yes! the emotional drama is my favorite! :P snake2k: i am a superintelligent nand gate Ah, a typical human day rindolf, self aware nand gates?! >_> we're doomed! rindolf: nandgate :P exec_: what does gcc -E say? it says you’re a HERETIC what does `rm -rf ./*; rustup install nightly; cargo init .` say? aawe: how about no? lol RIR aawe: what does `sudo rm -fr /* # Sayonara, asshole!` say? you forgot --no-preserve-root aawe: note that it may take a while to run. aawe: w /*? it would probably be faster if rm was written in rust aawe: then: 1. Rewrite rm in rust. 2. Benchmark both versions on /* of course What's the motivation to come to a IRC like this? to chat with other fellow programmers Nowyouseeme: to get help? Nowyouseeme: to help others? Nowyouseeme: to debate? no help, only panda memes pls To help others! adsc: can you help me find panda memes? only very nice people would think that I want memes too Nowyouseeme to see different culture birkoff, a simple linear search algorithm if you're not gonna sort it Birkoff: If you are sorting you can do it quicker than N. birkoff, you'd be better off implemented a fast sorting algorithm and picking the first (or last) value off the array. vesc interesting. how ? I'm not sorting though. snake2k: sorting is faster than N? I agree with snake2k day, if it's a massive array, then yes but how can you sort without having to look at each element? wtf kind of shit advice is that day, the time complexity of checking each N to the next can scale larger depending on array size. But a highly optimized sort can cut the time down. sort the entire array just to get one value? snake2k: but then it wouldn't be O(n) any more would it? I'm not saying to use a basic sorting algorithm because that's pointless lmao rts-sander: what would you do? you'd be better off with just a linear search vesc, loop through and remember the highest encountered number yeah snake2k: sort cannot be better than o(n) snake2k: see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timsort unless the array is already sorted, then it's O(1) :) rts-sander: the best you could get is O(n) I know a sort cand be done better than that. can* snake2k: and it is O(N*log(N)) worst case vesc, how can sorting an entire array possibly be faster than finding the largest value? rts-sander: you need to know that is the case because you need to know what the largest value is rindolf, I see Let's go ape shit and do parallel processing on 4 threads 4 O(N/4)s lmao flipchan: hi hey rindolf what's up flipchan: i got a haircut today flipchan: and looked into contributing to tslint, but they have 65 open pull requests (snake2k@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/snake2k) has left ("Leaving") (snake2k@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/snake2k) has joined closed out ##programming by mistake >_> rindolf: cant choice one? flipchan: what? oh i read wrong thought u wrote 65 open issues flipchan: ah how you're going to contribute? by adding some more pull requests? :D rts-sander: heh rts-sander: https://xkcd.com/927/ well, not quite the same snake2k: admit it - you did it on purpose. :-P snake2k: :) rindolf, lmao no I pressed ^W to close a firefox tab but I had my IRC client selected :P snake2k: ah, it happens to me too ##programming Freenode Copyrighting Fibonacci Hello I am finding fib number for a large series, here is my code https://pastebin.com/Eu5J4r5y but I get the following error man this python looks like Greek to me. I'm so out of touch G3nka1: hi G3nka1: this is an inaccurate method G3nka1: perhaps try using matrix exp Hi rindolf oh matrix exp? G3nka1: yes G3nka1: or just use the a,b = b, a+b algo But rindolf it will take longer that way, and stack overflows because of multiple recursions G3nka1: what? G3nka1: why? You don't have to do it recursively G3nka1: do it iteratively rindolf, using yield ? G3nka1: that is an option G3nka1: wait a sec alright G3nka1: see https://github.com/shlomif/shlomif-perl-snippets/blob/master/fibonacci-iterative.py good lord... you need an enormous license statement for that snippet? AbleBacon: yes AbleBacon, LOL!!! "i used this snippet in my production software and it totally destroyed everything and now I'm gonna sue" rindolf, this is illegal! you can't copyright Fibonacci! rindolf, yup I also had written something similar https://paste.pound-python.org/show/WnXeO2U2BwuzHRQ8k8e2/ you can only copyright a unique idea, fibonacci-iterative.py is like copyrighting the stool :D iodev: i copyright the code and it is Expat that's not similar... it doesn't have an elaborate license explicitly stated in the code file rindolf, well, i can do whatever I want with it, Fibonacci is public domain, you can't MIT it, if I wanna use it in proprietary software, I can it's a good thing you didn't write something similar, because that shit is already copyrighted iodev: go ahead because it's not really original, so not copyrighted, so you can't sue iodev: mit allows that did he just implicitly award you a license to use Fibonacci? iodev: i wont sue you The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software. no, even if I don't do this, you can't sue me rindolf "i used this Fibonacci code as the random number generator for my library and my security has been cracked. I'm totally suing" rindolf, there, I broke your license :D http://dpaste.com/1NWZFH0 G3nka1: fibgen and F are identical and I dare you to sue me! rindolf make me rich, sue me :D I'll win heh iodev: I'm cool with that or get the MIT to sue me, even better :D it didn't occur to me that I should use something like a, b = b, a+b I always do it like result = a+b; b = a; a = result rindolf, I'm joking pal, don't be angry okay iodev: http://fc-solve.shlomifish.org/faq.html#abuse_of_fc_solve I need a course in how to not over complicate software iodev: I'm laughing iodev: that is OK i mean, an iterative approach is what you use when generating Fibonacci numbers on paper I know rindolf rindolf, anyway, you see, before you MIT/GPL something you must having something Original, that is the copyrighted thing :D if anyone can make it, just like anyone can make a stool, no patent, no copyright is given, because you're not the author of anything, rindolf Fibonacci isn't around to say that it's not original that mofo is 6 feet under somewhere in Italy fibs = 0 : 1 : zipWith (+) fibs (tail fibs) I'm an amateur lawyer, rindolf :-) I like to learn legalese :D I've seen a couple of episodes of law & order and i can confirm he's correct this case just needs a bombshell for the thrill factor Fibonacci's great-great-great-great-grandson comes in as a surprise witness and testifies that Fibonacci stole the formula AbleBacon, yes, soap opera and in 20 years, he confesses on his death bead to have stolen the formula from an orphan and asks him for forgiveness through an email, and gets a "NOO!" and then he dies, crying :D :-( AbleBacon, don't cry, it sells or it seems like he died, in about 200 episodes he wakes up out of a comma on a hospital bed! when everyone has forgotten that he was dead, and the soap opera contradicts itself :-) heh LOL rindolf, you are sworn to tell the truth and nothing but the truth, don't soap operas contradict themselves? iodev: see http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Licensing_and_Law/public-domain.html LOL!!! linuxmafia rindolf, a site against Linux, unbelievable! iodev: it isn't against Linux ##programming Freenode Bad Maths Puns yay! I solved my long time nemesis https://projecteuler.net/problem=261 it required some maths analysis rindolf: Yay. yay maths is a math addict breaking rad I live in sin anyone else love tan salons? where's punishment PUNishment Batholith: They cos too much FUNishment . o O ( these jokes are sadly derivative ) jrslepak: We have yet to reach the limit oh well, bad puns are integral to the IRC experience Yeah, where's the sigma when you needed it. next to the pi which really is the root of all evil I once met a guy who had both an American and South African nationalities. He was a South African-American. swing and a miss Trashlord: That's not a math pun. Ye'r outta here oh. I thought we were doing general puns about anything Nope. Bad math puns. oh well then I'm going to eat oatmeal. Goodbye a *real* party pooper imagine that This is a complex topic. okay that was such a long shot that I should feel bad yeah, it wasn't a natural math pun hey is that even a pun? this just makes me feel number and number. hmmm yeah, it could be vdamewood: you're acute tea pi Aww, thanks. that incremented quickly there's a fine line between a numerator and a denominator. only a fraction of people will find that funny hah A wild exponential function appeared! You used DIFFERENTIATE! It's not very effective... do you guys speak sine language? Batholith: 5/4 of the population don't understand fractions. i'll do algebra... i'll do trig... i'll even do statistics... but graphing is where i draw the line. my friend called me average. he can be so mean he was probably just in a bad mode I'm gonna have to save this log for later hope you can save it in linear time heh, heh Batholith: that joke didn't really add up I know, it was a little odd https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BipvGD-LCjU Batholith: heh √((-shit)^2) shit just got real Gamah: heh Gamah: sqrt((-i)^2) is not real ##programming Freenode To boldly code as in suddenly you'll start getting empty responses an api that has 1 request per minute limit is nearly useless well it's not a limit but it's recommended fetch(url).then((r)=> return r.OK ? r.json() : r.text()).then((json) => doStuff(json)); Pretty much then that's new to me. wedr_: that will break for !r.OK Ugh, reddit's still written in python. No wonder it's slow as hell. i usually do `.then(r => { if (!r.OK) { throw r; } return r.json() })` oh I write my websites in C You should write in WebASM :D s/Web// nah man. I mean the backend oh soon you will be able to write the frontend in C, too solidfox: my websites are mostly static html sweet. I can render my interface myself instead of using css Is C web-scale? Do all the cool kids use it? Tywin: /dev/null is web scale rindolf, ah. so you don't use any programming? Tywin: it has sharding solidfox: i do rindolf, does /dev/null also have native non-blocking sharding? :D solidfox: i use static site generators solidfox: and there is client-side js Tywin: http://shlomifishswiki.branchable.com/slash-dev-null_is_WebScale/ rindolf, ah I see I think I remember now. aren't your static site generators written in perl? rindolf, how can I get this /dev/null? What do I have to type in my 5000$ Mac? solidfox: see http://www.shlomifish.org/meta/site-source/ solidfox: not entirely Tywin: just PayPal me 100 bitcoins PayPal supports bitcoins? Or that's a joke? wedr_: a joke OK Otherwise, my co-workers going to cash all in on PayPal They have a strut of bitcoins Hoping to get back into the green wedr_: he can pay me 1,000,000 USD instead to get the coveted /dev/null Wait until we hit 2030, when USD is probably hyper-inflating. wedr_, that ain't gonna happen wedr_, we can barely maintain current inflation rates Hence it's a joke rindolf: not entirely a joke, unless it is extremely widespread. There are quite a few results for 'PayPal bitcoin' arahael: i 'd imagine rindolf: the more promising sites seem to be old though, e.g., a pcworld article from 2015. i suspect that they may have considered it in the past. (but i haven't read it. ) or extremely fictitious and click-baity solidfox: https://github.com/shlomif/shlomi-fish-homepage/blob/master/.travis.yml - this is the build process for a mere 999,000 USD I'll even spin up /dev/null as a service for you which exists already apparently: https://devnull-as-a-service.com/ rts-sander, it's expensive as hell, so it must be good. I'm talking with my management right now about buying some /dev/null. rts-sander: dispose of your data safely and efficiently with /dev/null! Tywin: heh now for only 150$ per month on a 5 year contract! I legit think there's non-technical business people you could sell this to rts-sander: see http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=mongodb-vs-dev-null rindolf, this hans guy is thorough rts-sander: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=sharp-perl-paid-version-of-cpan rindolf, it's true though if you look at what some companies pay for enterprise software rts-sander: enterprise! to boldly code what many have coded before lol not like many of us are going through uncharted territory, we at least have the decency to not pretend otherwise rts-sander: enterprise software! https://fc-solve.blogspot.co.il/2010/03/01-april-2010-freecell-solver.html rindolf, consistent usage of the trademark symbol if you miss it once your intellectual property might get stolen! "Eh, what the hell?" lol rts-sander: heh. That is True™ ##programming Freenode Compilation Speeds Turbo Pascal :P GeDaMo: where? many modern language features are slow to compile. rust has that problem too Fast compilation, fast development, fast runtime. Choose 2. InPhase: heh InPhase: 2 or less rindolf: that was to beaky's "instant compile speeds" GeDaMo: ah There's a fundamental reason one ends up with that trade-off of choosing 2. Turning complicated ideas into fast instructions is complicated. And that complexity has to eventually be processed somewhere, either in the head of the programmer, by the compiler, or as a runtime cost. InPhase: interesting most slow compilers are slow, not because it is necessary, but simply because making it fast hasn't been a priority _W_: Well the major C++ compiler designers, and the C++ language committee, reportedly spent effort trying to significantly speed up compilation in recent years. But I think we can see there were not many meaningful results from those efforts. They've had trouble finding ways that don't majorly break the features that make the C++ runtime fast. if I don't learn how to read a file line by line in Swift, this one will also be slow, memory consuming or unstable ;/ :/ well C++ compilation is already relatively fast, so it makes sense that there wouldn't be a lot to gain There have been huge results in the reduction of TMP compilation speeds, thanks to pressure from the clang/llvm world. Templates, of course, being the biggest practical slowdown in C++ compilation, that's a big win. jeaye: what is TMP? rindolf: Template MetaProgramming I'd go so far as to say that there's more of a correlation between how young a language is and how slow its compilation is, than between complexity of language and how slow the compilation is jeaye: ah jeaye: And to be fair, I don't think it was obvious 20-25 years ago how big TMP would become. _W_: some languages started off with fast compilers yes, it's not a hard rule by any means _W_: and gcc got slower - https://github.com/shlomif/fc-solve/blob/master/fc-solve/docs/gcc-2.95.txt fast in terms of time to compile? or fast in terms of the performance of the resulting executable? gehn: time spent in compilation was what was being discussed (and contrasted up against speed of development and speed of execution) ah would guess most languages started off with fast compilers that got slower probably, at least up to some level of complexity and features speed of development is subjective, its place is not at all with the other too two* compile time is certainly something that impacts dev time at least in my experience I like C++, but I don't love everything about it. it would be nice if we had significantly faster C++ compile times in my experience, it does impact time taken only when not writing code well, testing the code written is a pretty important and continuous process of my development I have unit tests, but those don't cover everything and GUIs are often more difficult to test at all especially difficult to test things like the result of a render operation on an OpenGL context so, needing to wait a significant amount of time (upwards of a minute or several) just to test some fairly simple change can spiral time-to-dev costs gehn: yes gehn: using ccache has changed my life what percentage of this time is spent compiling? and what is spent analysing the issue, coming up with a solution, implementing the solution, writing a test, code review, running the test? rindolf, is that different from how a Makefile or whatever (or a cmake generated project) should be able to detect which files need compile and which don't? velco, like I said, it's not always feasible to write a test for everything gehn: sometimes it is I don't have an answer as to exact percentage, but on many days I suspect I spend almost 50% of my total time waiting for compiles gehn: if you did “make clean” for example gehn: Sure. Why do you feel compelled to tell this to me? that might be an overestimate, but it's not far away gehn, if you have a file b that depends on a. if you change a, then you'll need to recompile b even if you didn't change it at all. so probably not everything will change velco, were you not asking the percentage question as a response to what I had said? obxkcd: https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/303:_Compiling unit tests help a lot gehn: yes, and if you don't write test, my list potentially incomplete list of things allows for a 0 percent because they compile much faster as each unit is typically decoupled from the entire app gehn: sound like you need to rethink your workflow velco, sorry I don't understand what you just said velco, maybe, but I'm not sure what to change about said workflow gehn: I have not put a restriction of non-zero time on any particular item in my list, so I don't understand why do you need to tell me some of these may take zero time so, it's great to write unit tests, and I write a lot of them, but when doing more GUI centric integration centric work - a workflow centered around unit tests isn't viable velco, I seriously still don't understand what you're saying? when did I say anything about zero time? gehn: there is also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distcc velco, yes, what about that statement? I have found that a a simple change incurs less than 2 minutes of building of a large c++ project, most of it spent in linking 2 minutes is still kind of a lot I tend to not write tons of code before recompiling and testing so I might spend anywhere from 30s to 5 minutes on a few lines, and then I usually want to test again before moving on with unit tests where compilation and runtime is usually < 20-30s that's mostly not an issue but when compile times start to rise above the minute-or-several mark, then this begins to become more of a problematic issue why run compilation and test so often? I think the answer to that should be fairly clear to many if not most devs I run it when I have written a committable amount of code velco: fail early the more lines of code you write the more chance that you've made a mistake, and the further you go without checking your work, the more likely it is you'll end up in a very difficult to debug situation that consumes more time than it should exio4_noznc: it looks to me that some fail even before starting :P shouldn't make mistakes linting helps with that a lot but still doesn't prevent logic or runtime errors gehn: that does not come form my experience; it is very rare I have an error in each line I write so I guess velco is a near god-like perfect programmer in fact, most are correct; hence, testing them in isolation proves pointless for the rest of us mortals however... I don't test lines in isolation ##programming Freenode Dogs on the Internet wow, I need to go on a quest for coffee Coffee Quest The Legend of the Bitter bean Mangy_Dog: heh :> i had a second mug of a rather strong coffee i should not have any more Mangy_Dog: i don't drink coffee :o tea? Mangy_Dog: i also refrain from caffeinated beverages :o heathen Mangy_Dog: fruit tea and you call yourself a programmer :p Mangy_Dog: heh, yes - i call myself a programmer rindolf: there are many stereotypes about programmers which don't always apply amigojapan_: right amigojapan_: some programmers are dog people amigojapan_: and some go to bed early rindolf: hehehe, I bet that is quite common Mangy_Dog: woof bark aww sorry to hear it Mangy_Dog: roar bark bark bark Mangy_Dog: meow head tilts we should start a zoo imma confused doggo Peyam: https://abstrusegoose.com/249 Mangy_Dog: there are no dogs on the internet! but imma dog Mangy_Dog: :) nobody on the internet knows you're a dog unless you explicitly tell it heh https://www.openparenthesis.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/idog.jpg barks Mangy_Dog: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=dogs-on-the-Internet starts dry-humping Mangy_Dog :o tries to shake moriarty off holds steadily on like a cool skateboarder :D prepares an ad for puppies an ad targeted for puppies? but I'm a male doggo now that's some next-level marketing stuff Hip hop dogs. Mangy_Dog, that's OK, we'd just pretend this is prison ;) :o :o liste: targeted at Chinese restaurateurs oh I'm gay BTW... but i don't make puppies Mangy_Dog: ah TV for dogs Mangy_Dog: a gay male dog? ber arks on the internet! Mangy_Dog: and you drink coffee yep Mangy_Dog: you are a wonder dog yay Mangy_Dog: do you conspire to take over the world? naaa heh the big muscly wolves and tigers are set to take over the world ##programming Freenode The voiceless Trashlord hmmm,,,, Trashlord no longer has +v He must have left the channel for a second or something. Trashlord: welcome to the commoner class Trashcommoner filthy peasant navkthx: heh pleb ^^ is joking I'm not, I'm 100% serious as a heart-attack "let them eat cake". rts-sander: heh arahael: BTW, this phrase predates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Antoinette Trashlord: how do you feel wo +v? Trashlord: how do you feel w +ov? rindolf: feels weird after 4 months. But I wasn't voiced because I'm special, but rather because of a spammer. Multiple people were voiced and my bouncer just happened to be stable so I remained voiced the whole time what is w +ov and wo +v Trashlord: ah jeaye: if I was +o it would have been easier, because some people thought I was channel staff. I started getting private messages asking why X is banned, etc solidfox: without voice so w +ov must be with op and voice Trashlord: did you see us joking about it earlier? solidfox: Mine's just wordplay on rindolf's. jeaye, oh OK lol rindolf: don't think that I did Trashlord: ah Trashlord: scroll up Trashlord: sup? rindolf: to what time? rindolf: I'm trying to bake pitas again Trashlord: ah I might have not been here when that conversation took place if it was more than 2 hours ago Trashlord: we mentioned your nick Trashlord: i can paste it rindolf: alright, paste rindolf: you do a lot of programming on graphics and video systems right? Trashlord: http://www.shlomifish.org/Files/files/text/irc.log.txt tbejos: possibly - nothing too much low level rindolf: well this project might be of interest to you https://github.com/gnif/LookingGlass it is a little low level, to be honest rindolf, the rules say no loggers, does that apply to excerpts? rindolf: ah well, I lost my voice because my bouncer got disconnected ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ solidfox: i think not we need a +v bot to enable +v on anyone who asks solidfox: we used to have Archer rindolf, archer was a person Trashlord: bad bouncer rindolf: it was on for 4 months and he only let certain people have +v :< Trashlord: fire them my longest connection streak ever rindolf: it's from a friend hosted on one of his servers solidfox: it was also a bot rindolf, ah I see rindolf, I was trying bot commands and he replied "tisk tisk tisk" lol it surprised me but "hello world!" will not get me there, even in a loop well not really algorithms, that might be going a bit overboard solidfox: i have some selected conversations from here on my site rindolf, that is probably OK i was just curious Trashlord: ah Trashlord: fire your friend rindolf: heh rindolf: the bouncer is good rindolf: and I'm getting it for free Trashlord: OK not gonna complain ##programming Freenode Your Mum Needs a lot of RAM often wondered why a list of objects is called a vector in C++ too, seems some how related. mrig: Because Cartesian vectors are just a list of values in math. right yes. that's he original mathematical definition of vector: tuple of scalars mrig: So the term was borrowed in the old days by some. Some others uses 'array' for the term. C++ has a std::vector type because of this legacy and the array gets conflated with matrices too. isn't a vector like a direction, compared to a coordinate OK I mean, a matrix is just a vector of vectors :P DnzAtWrk: It can be, yes. DnzAtWrk: a vector can represent both a direction, and a coordinate I tried learning what tensors are the other day seems like people can't agree on definitions of these things both a direction and a position Isn't he they guy with the floating disc? vector is just a clever name for "a bunch of numbers" :) deniska: well it is kinda the axis rather than that value no? Tensor's Floating Disc? vectors have length in addition to a direction DnzAtWrk: when you did, did you go the math route, or did you try to follow some CS thing? mrig: a coordinate is a pair of numbers, a vector is a pair of numbers, they are essentially the same thing Both (a 2d vector I should say) and I still barely get it a vector stemming from origin can represent a coordinate pair A 2d number sounds complex. a vector can represent just about anything when given enough dimensions uses a vector to represent rts-sander's mom a vector can represent your face and your mom oh sheit I've already got a vector for you mom. vdamewood, I'd do the same for you but even my 32GB of ram couldn't fit your mum ur mom is infinite field of scalars bows to rts-sander ur mom is worth 33 GB 0.0 seems fine your mom has a high generality XD is that a way of saying fat My band is like 999 MB. No gigs yet. higher languages (basic) so much fun! gde33: as in Visual Basic? naw I'll just use nbasic mobile_c: as in all higher languages are basic gde33: oki makes a new programming language called SIMPLE vdamewood: heh vdamewood: call it "easy" makes another programming language called EZ makes an esolang called Complicated inhahe: that'd be Malbolge :) Now I'm making a backup of my backup. wants to make a language called Terrorism Ponzi scheme is still the most popular should be hackers, then you can say you are using hackers A language should be called 'Yo mom', So books can be titled "Programming with Yo Mom" Yo mom for beginners embedded yo mom Yo Mom in 24 Hours Debugging Yo Mom Head first in yo mom Yo Mom, the Hard Way chapter 1: objects in yo mom ##programming Freenode There are at least two inches in a mile that stuff goes over my head over my head as well :P may be half inch above your head and 50 feet above mine :) bytefire: what barbaric measurements bytefire: quick - how many inches are in a mile? all of them . o O ( how many barrels in an acre-foot? ) vdamewood: i guess the capital of Ohio is "O" then how many fathoms in a furlong? rindolf: there are more than 2 inches in a mile of course, none of this is as dumb as having 112 pounds in a hundredweight bytefire: so 3? to many to fathom! if in doubt use your elbows lol rindolf: well... there are 3 inches in a mile. there are other inches in a mile as well. one bow and one bow bowbow Yes that is how you get to the front of the Que in France. wowow bytefire: heh :D bow wow au lol A foot is a fair measure of spacetime :P bytefire: i'll take the first 20 inches in the mile Speaking of spacetime, how many meters are in a second? many* lol naaa all you need is a clock and an inch stick to measure spacetime lol clock is just an invention all you need is a stick an 1/12th of is naturally a senseful measure of nought! sticks to the invention. invented sticks vdamewood: i wondered that as well rindolf: I have no way to prove it, but I always figured that there were c*s meters in a second. if a nautical mile is genuinely 60 minutes, how much is an inch in time? :P mrig: a litter. ah" that is 1/12th an ah' as big as the sailor rindolf: That is, the time it takes light to travel a certain distance is that distance in time. loll or is that vis versa? vdamewood: ah tailor the sailor without failure sings lol fades into a black hole and emerges upon a brand new time line. shiny! wtf, you invented a stick now we have to measure how long the new timeline is. You monster. ##programming Freenode Educating Machines (~dan01@) has joined dan01: arrrrR ay sir_galahad_ad: hello me hearty sir_galahad_ad: dan01 has to use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_(programming_language) ah sir_galahad_ad: and he hates it but machine learning and stuff! sir_galahad_ad: if a machine wishes to learn it should go to college! ;) but it can't afford tuition on a machine's salary sir_galahad_ad: it should get a student's loan then sir_galahad_ad: or apply for a scholarship sir_galahad_ad: we cannot have ignorant machines ##programming Freenode Vanilla software and Real Programmers where did the term "vanilla software" come from? Why vanilla? Trashlord, like vanilla sex? _kmh_: I didn't know that was a term Trashlord: vanilla means plain, raw, with no additions Trashlord: like vanilla icecream rindolf: why not chocolate software then, like plain chocolate ice cream? Trashlord: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vanilla what the fuck is "vanilla software" vanilla vs edgy/kinky/spicy/different from the norm be it software, sex or whatever Trashlord: chocolate has a more noticeable flavour does Microsoft office count as vanilla software? rindolf: alright vanilla is like beige Trashlord: and colour gwosix: like vanilla js Java, C, python and alike are vanilla gwosix: Microsoft Office is more like an $8 bottle of asparagus water. brainfuck is not Vanilla means plain ol'; nothing fancy. rindolf: but vanilla ice cream is white Sometimes means original version. _kmh_: how do you attribute flavor ? :) _kmh_: what? Trashlord, white with a touch of yellow OK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainfuck I noticed that to be a good programmer you have to be a good writer: you have to be able to write comments, tutorials, explanation, and documentation and be not ashamed to show it to other people. What is your opinion? lol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanilla_software there is actually wikipedia entry for it andrei-n: hi andrei-n: http://blog.red-bean.com/sussman/?p=96 andrei-n, to be good programmer you gotta be good at everything :) the goose laying golden eggs _kmh_: I mean, I know what vanilla means in this context. But how would the system-provided brainfuck be less vanilla than system provided Java ? :) _kmh_, yeah, I even started copywork in order to improve concentration and memory... It's never enough. (I do agree that brainfuck is esoteric) _kmh_: I mean, on some Linux distributions it's easier to get brainfuck than oracle Java :) Brainfuck is insane _kmh_ : That would qualify you as a developer andrei-n: To be a good programmer first and foremost you have to be good at logical thinking and problem solving. The rest are just details. to be a good programmer you have to be able to quit vim LOL Trashlord: heh lol oh yeah, and real programmers use vim :) Winners never quit, quitters never win … wins vim because i couldn't quit it lol tiggster79, I noticed that I'm not even able to understand the problems on spoj, leetcode and project-euler. That means I'm really bad at reading... So I have to improve this before even trying to become better at problem solving... Vim is for the lazy, nano is where it's at Trashlord: :) rindolf: :) nano is for people who are too scared to use notepad.exe Myr: https://xkcd.com/378/ deniska: nano is for people who want to use the terminal, but are too afraid to use vim. rindolf: you got me there, never could grasp butterfly Myr: heh Myr: use emacs then Myr: it has m-x butterfly ##programming Freenode The European Bundle so someone here advised me to compile my program on Windows 10 and it is gonna work backward on the other versions, but when i run on Windows 8 it says something like "api-ms-win-crt-runtime-l1-1-0.dll is missing" zenix_2k2: i recall similar issues and i was trying to compile the program with pyinstaller zenix_2k2: You need to find the redistributable for the libraries you're using, and install them. Looks like windows 10 has it by default. more like freezing it zenix_2k2: That said, the convention in most environments is to get the *oldest* environment you want to support, and use that. zenix_2k2: Older apps tend to work well on newer systems. The reverse is not usually true. zenix_2k2: when compiling for compatibility, you probably would want to go with older systems rather than newer well, maybe i will just compile on Windows 8 and hopefully it will work on win10 and win7 (not sure how it works on windows though) zenix_2k2: In that case, compile on windows 7. if you want to target win7, you probably should use win7 that's weird, some people here said i should have compiled on win10 it is gonna work backward or maybe i lagged :P Windows 7 is EOL in 7 months. well... but i bet its apps will still work on windows 10 and 8 zenix_2k2: Compiling for Windows 7 on Windows 10 should, in theory work, as long as you only use libraries that come with 7. Same with 8.1. zenix_2k2: Arahael deniska : I think the https://pysolfc.sourceforge.io/ packages work fine on older windows and they are built on win10 does this mean i should ask my users to install the appropriate libraries every time they use my program ? rindolf: If you know what you're doing, sure. rindolf: But if you're struggling, well, one *very obvious* way to figure it out is to just use the oldest system. zenix_2k2: you can bundle them zenix_2k2: The thing is, I think that missing lib you mentioned isn't distributed with Windows before 10. Maybe before 8.0. depending on the licensing terms of this library, you may redistribute it with your program Arahael: yes rindolf : bundle ? this sounds new to me deniska: It looks like an MS-supplied library. MS is basically You may distribute Release versions of the dll's freely. No modification, no source, no static libs, and no debug versions. zenix_2k2: it is an English word yea but its definition in this situation isn't zenix_2k2: means "to include" yes i know, but when you talk about include, i can only imagine something like "#include" in C, C++ programs zenix_2k2: Think more like zip myzip myapp foo.dll That's a terrible command. zenix_2k2: include has a more general meaning zenix_2k2: Anyway, think about 'including' something in the same archive file, or such, when people speak of bundling. zenix_2k2: like "europeans, including Frenchmen, are ..." bundles France with Europe. vdamewood: heh thinks #include <frenchmen> is a bit weird. vdamewood: will it cost extra? #include <frenchman.h> #include <aussie.h> #include <australia.cpp> yea, that is a good example, so bundle in this case is like a zip file ? #ifdef __deal__ #include <uk> >_> <_< deniska: Isn't that over yet? dunno, I don't really follow this zenix_2k2: Yeah, same concept. You just include it with your installer program, though, which often is something similar to a self-extracting zip file. Hm, i don't think pyinstaller offers any option like that ##programming Freenode Last of the Mercurialians mercurial is on the way out folks: https://bitbucket.org/blog/sunsetting-mercurial-support-in-bitbucket time to buckle up and git gud mobinoob: saw that mobinoob: pfft, that won't stop me from using Mercurial :) mobinoob: I've been using GitHub as main host for my code in mercurial for years to prepare for this moment :p the mercurial rats swim to the last big sinking ship :) merijn, haha but at some point you'll have to learn git though :) Does github support mercurial or do you just push it there as a git repo? mobinoob: Why? I've managed with Mercurial since 2009 across 3 different companies where everyone was using git duncan: hg-git extension allows bidirectional conversion/interaction with git I have in my mind a long-standing idea to write a host for rcs projects that merely offers an rsync interface duncan: So I just clone with "hg clone git+ssh://url" work with Mercurial and when I'm done I just do "hg push" and it Just Works (TM) (unless there's git submodules, then things get super annoying) But then submodules are also annoying in git :p I do understand they compare closely which is nice duncan: The data model is very similar, the approach to UI/workflow is not, Mercurial is much more human friendly :p For keeping track of notes I like to use rcs as it is so simple and reliable merijn, can you also do interactive rebases etc? mobinoob: Why wouldn't you? merijn, idk maybe there's some subset of functionality that isn't available via merc you wouldn't know because you don't know git after all duncan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revision_Control_System - this? you're missing out Yup, good old rcs duncan: i use git or hg for notes I have many such notes and the emacs rcs interface is good mobinoob: Some people say Mercurial doesn't "natively" support rebases, etc. because rebase is technically an extension, but it's an extension that's maintained by the Mercurial core team and ships as part of the standard mercurial install, so I think that's kinda nonsense mobinoob: I would actually argue that the evolve extension of Mercurial is infinitely better than interactive rebases merijn, yeah an extension by the core team is good enough alright guess there's no problem then mobinoob: https://www.mercurial-scm.org/doc/evolution/ it's like a javascript developer that only programs in some language that compiles to javascript but less severe as it's more personal Sadly it seems like Bitbucket is dropping support for mercurial... So getting hosting for open source project is gonna get even harder under hg Jck_true: That rather sucks. hg is one of the two SCMs that don't suck. What is the other one? duncan: git as they say in the announcement, git just won. they've got like 1% of users using hg Though, hg's development does seem to be lagging behind the Python 2 EOL party. and that's not the top of the foodchain 1% :P popular doesn't always mean better though vdamewood: it is full of stuff like `git-clip-submodule --sense-change [ --cripple-branch | --overcome-archive | --hurtle-nag-subtree ]` though duncan: So? It is a tad confusing tad oh Hg is mercury, right got to the same page in the end :) I was just admiring how easy it is to use a bare remote git repo on any server; Love git. That said I have never tried mercurial, likely a little slow compared to git no? Speed was never an issue for me on my personal projects duncan: Is that enough for it to suck? not that it would make the slightest difference on any of my tiny projects. all projects start small And wait what... As I read the blog post are they simply gonna scrap all hg repositories?!? I thought hg is faster than git noo Jck_true: where you reading that? "Mercurial features and repositories will be officially removed from Bitbucket and its API on June 1, 2020." and I never found git to be super fast mobinoob: have you ever worked with svn? icholy, once icholy, svn is another level of shit though used to be the best "best" SVN does however have the fantastic TortoiseSVN interface... Which makes it great for non command-line users... And there is something nice about the "everything is on the server" lmao you're joking right? I wonder what major open-source projects still use Hg. mobinoob: what is faster than git? perforce? vdamewood: firefox rindolf: I thought they might. I wonder if Thunderbird does, too. rindolf, idk mobinoob: You're welcome to call me stupid. But like 40% of the time I don't know what the fuck I am doing when it comes to git stuff... vdamewood: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercurial Jck_true, we all make mistakes, it's never too late to git gud rapidwave: most are hand-written Jck_true: i still miss the simplicity and transparency of the svn model Jck_true: though I'm mostly using git and hg now once you get git at the basic level it becomes easy in usage Jck_true: but i don't feel i understand their program model took me a long time before I really "got" git the process takes years and requires an inquisitive mind this talk is pretty good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCnnSryzPrE That is such backwards thinking... ~60 years of computer science? And Git is the best we can do? Jck_true: I feel ya (But only if you spend a few years learning it) Jck_true, Linus would be sad to see those words it's really great once you master it though kinda like vim the UX is the main issue with git damn git was created in 2005, doesn't seem that old as in 2005 wasn't that long ago That is how I tried explaining it to my ex wife. Told her she just needed a few more years getting to know me and then everything would be great between us lmao on the first date: "just let me fuck you for a couple of years, eventually it'll git gud" not that long ago? hmm git is half as old as x86 arch? Jck_true: heh 386 i mean wait was 286 32 bit? noteqstmo: it wasn't "The Intel 80286[3] (also marketed as the iAPX 286[4] and often called Intel 286) is a 16-bit microprocessor" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_80286 noteqstmo: the first x86 was 8086/8088 yeah definitely meant 386 with that comment then noteqstmo: and it was compatible with the 8080 Only in the sense that 8080 assembly could be run through a translator to get 8086 assembly there was also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zilog ##programming Freenode Let's give it a few years Prioritizing Money it seems in my country node jobs pay about $20k more a year than rails jobs I guess if I want $20k extra I should stick to node I did some research people who see programming just as a way of making money weird me out pulse: I started programming because it seemed like a fun thing to do, and as a bonus I can also have jobs involving it deniska, that's a proper mindset but caring about programming only from 9 to 5 is a valid mindset too deniska, disagreed if you treat programming as a way to get money then your code will necessarily suck you should treat code with all the respect it deserves, and consider money as a happy side product it's the same in any other craft, to be honest prioritizing money means you don't give the craft the attention it requires pulse: and it likely will result in less money rindolf, yes, ironically enough ##programming Freenode X-Y Problem so question, i am intending to make a feature where a user makes a purchase or anything, it will send an email to the admin, but that does require me to create an email first and put it in the config in the backend, is there anyhow i can send email anonymously ? eson123: hi oh hi eson123: https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/image-macros/indiv-nodes/set_up_email_service.xhtml Title: Shlomif’s Memes - “One does not simply set up an E-mail service.” rindolf: oh no, that's more unecessary work eson123: you can use 'do-not-reply@eson123site.tld' doesn't that still require me to setup my own email server ? eson123: no, see the DNS MX record eson123: Yes, generally anything can send mail *to* an address. If you don't own the receiving server it's a good idea to whitelist your sending thing though. (Which may involve SPF and DMARC and so on) hello I need a nice way to manage secrets in a giga project What felt like the best way to manage secrets is Google Secret Manager I simply setup an email service. And it works more reliably than all the other email services I have access to. It wasn't really too hard. but for compute resources, we don't use GCP computes (yet), because they're very expensive This "giga project" is actually a monorepo, and secrets can be text or files I'm not quite sure how to manage this stuff nicely Some secret files may be shared by all packages some files are scoped to specific packages etc. There are a few extra steps now compared to setting up email services in the 90s, but not really that much. Also Docker Compose is used to bring up all the packages so the question is, what's a nice way to manage secrets Yes, I run my own email server Also, setting up a special purpose server that only sends or receives mail on a single address is very trivial. You can then mostly not care what goofball anti-spam measures the rest of the world lurches into. There's still a piece of equipment in a mine in Western Australia which reliably sends reports. I set it up in 2002. It doesn't have any fancy antispam stuff and the receiving email server doesn't care. how do you guys manage things like bucket names in code or basically any identifier for some resource on a cloud provider I can't wrap my head around this every solution I come up with ends up gross like I don't want to hardware `some-whatever-value` every time I want to access the bucket named `some-whatever-value` because (1) it sounds easy to type `some-whetever-value` accidentally and spend 5 hours trying to figure out what's wrong (2) I don't like that the validation is not compile time (3) I don't like how hard it is to change that name later, yes Ctrl-Shift-F may work but it's not very elegant (4) it's not possible to tell how many buckets a service uses at a glance I'm not even being specific about bucket names either, but any cloud provider resource including service accounts, cloud functions, pubsub subscriptions, etc. OverCoder: wrap in an object? rindolf, something like this right? https://irc.overcoder.dev/uploads/81ed78804ecdf0d0/image.png thing is, for example TypeScript has a feature where it can validate strings to conform to a certain shape so for example I want the `users` bucket to only contain keys of certain formats and only not sure how to put this together entirely I mean yes I could write an entire giga types file and type checks all this stuff but overall I'm confused as what people do because the issue seems not google-able as if I am googling a problem no one has is confused OverCoder: more like `MyBucketName(name='myname') ` rindolf, yes but what validates `myname` is even remotely a relevant name on cloud? OverCoder: your tests suite tests are ridiculous it's just typing the code twice i don't do it me either. i don't code too. i make an infinite loop and wait for random bytes to arrange in a program i want. OverCoder: with code introspection then? what's that enxine: heh buckets should be clearly labelled, mashed potatos, gravy, macaronis, etc enxine: https://shlomifishswiki.branchable.com/slash-dev-null_is_WebScale/ Title: slash-dev-null is WebScale hehe why not just put everything into a json file and load it at run time? its not great but seems like its the standard way of handling these things code doesn't work, any tips? OverCoder: google / ddg it thx bro, i'll see if that works okay i googled "why doesn't my code work" and i think the issue might be that i have something called an "X-Y problem"? is there an easy solution for that? use Z only Ask about the X instead of the Y. Aka, don't ask the derived question, ask the original. heh; ornx++ ##programming Freenode Websites down for maintenance Different question: How can many websites take their entire operation down while doing backups? What could be causing the need for that? For example, right now, "Briefly unavailable for scheduled maintenance. Check back in a minute." at https://acceptableads.com/standard/ I don’t get this. Why can’t the backup be made while the site is being served? it can be irrelephpant: snapshotting? I don’t know. Surely PostgreSQL is not unique in that it can back up data while not affecting the normal operations at all? Snapshotting? irrelephpant you could probably set up a manual copy/paste with any database. irrelephpant: yes, freezing the normally dynamic state of a UGC site’s database irrelephpant: ‘scheduled maintenance’ is not necessarily equal to ‘backup’ RelayChat: "you could probably set up a manual copy/paste with any database." <-- ? rindolf: "UGC"? mercenary: What else could it refer to? copy the database.db file and paste it elsewhere. that's a backup too. irrelephpant: OS/software upgrades. database layout changes that need the code to be in sync. server moves. and many other things irrelephpant: user-generated-content, jeeze maybe they’re running windows server and it’s a patch tuesday rindolf: Never heard that before. mercenary: Hmm… I suppose. irrelephpant: from weblog comments to youtube uploads https://acceptableads.com/standard/ it’s back up a new windows update was released a few hours ago so that may have been it irrelephpant Windows update? I thought that site was about web ads? the server os could be windows March 14th = Patch Tuesday speculation isn’t fruitful and actions and outcomes are more important than motives rindolf: depends cannot set a general rule for that kind of thing pyzozord: I didn’t mean it as gospel :] rindolf: right, sorry pyzozord: no worries. \o/ ##programming Freenode Honey bees, My Little Pony, Super-heroes, Teas, open/free/share culture amigojapan: i am fond of ladybugs ;and honey bees naturally [mmmm... honey] rindolf: sure, those are nice... they have pretty colors, also butterflies amigojapan: slashdot wrote that honeybees solve the travelling salesman problem. i mystically believe they have an oracle for that I see rindolf ok, I am goign back to sleep, ttyl rindolf: but they do it by traveling all the routes, and forgetting about the ones that aren't as efficient so it's not exactly "solving" it ljharb: i don't understand rindolf: the point of the problem is to solve it without having to actually walk all the paths rindolf: bees brute force it, which isn't solving it Calling it "analyzing" instead of "solving" might make it clearer, since they still arrive at a solution ljharb: ah... that's what i meant by "having an oracle". hmw[at]: not through analysis tho. through brute force. My point rides rindolf uses his EvilAntlers™ to become an alicorn EvilReindeer and fly webchatsucks wildly wheeeee a dream now breath fire and kill all the infidels!!!!!! Infidel, prepare to charge webchatsucks: a dragon alicorn? I like your way of thinking! i got many crossover ideas from watching https://mlp.fandom.com/wiki/My_Little_Pony_Friendship_is_Magic_Wiki and other fantasy Title: My Little Pony Friendship is Magic Wiki when we're gonna get powers? I think I am watching Invincible too much can't wait for the next season throws a pointer to member syntax in the channel --> NOW PARSE IT! webchatsucks: hi. super heroes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm9d5wAXW5c Title: MIKA, RedOne - Kick Ass (We Are Young) (Official Music Video) webchatsucks: sometimes i feel that angular is the super villainous JS framework "abandon all hope, ye who enters" Weird. When I build my project, the executable isn't produced, but the build output says it's being built. time to get drunk. we don't need to know that rindolf: I AGREE I used angularjs before (I know, it's something else). then I tried Angular itself and I felt like an idiot vdamewood: Is it an intermediate makefile target that's automatically removed by make because it's not marked as needed? Or are you using automake and the binary is hidden somewhere in a hidden folder? is beaky around? I just drank an excellent black tea now DPA: I'm not using make atall. at all* yum what tea are you drinking you are using Bazel, right? like a good boy beaky: hold on im about to make some raw puer tea myself (the green hype from white2tea) "teas of canada" - wild blueberry black tea nice i like the taste of blueberry webchatsucks: black tea + mint leaves + sugar → win vdamewood: Ok than, is your build script run from a working directoryyou may not expect, placing the output file at an unexpected location? Or are you maybe building it on one PC, but searching it on a different PC connected using ssh? so it is OK to discuss drinking tea but not alcohol? pfft. Or are you using Windows, and the anti virus scanner removed it? tea contains caffeine and caffeine is a drug like alcohol :) i avoid caffeinated tea/coke/etc for now DPA: I'm on a mac, building for windows using mingw-w64, and I haven't even gotten to the point where I'm trying to run it. gnight all DPA: The problem was that I was building it as a C target, when it's a C++ target, and so for some reason CMake only built it with the rc files, which left it as basically a NULL binary, so it didn't produce a .exe file. amigojapan: i've been enjoying youtube's "My Mix" feature. i also can download individual vids using yt-dlp given i live in tel aviv rindolf: I dont know what my mix is and am probably not interested amigojapan: ok... :[[[ rindolf: it does nto even ocme up on google come up* amigojapan: see the "mixes" tab on the https://www.youtube.com/ front page ok I will tkae a look rindolf no I don't see mixes in that rindolf , anyway, time to watch sunday mass enjoy ty rindolf: What has Tel Aviv to do with downloading videos via yt-dlp? stanrifkin_: amigojapan lives in Japan where it is illegal rindolf: thank you, I didn't know stanrifkin_: you're welcome . I am not a lawyer ("IANAL") / etc. stanrifkin_: what's new with you? shavu`a tov 2 years in prison in Japan for downloading copyrighted materials, but they allow streaming as long as the contents is stored only in the browser cache hey amigojapan o/ long time no see hey tyzef ! no way to mess in Japan as we can see, oh la la tyzef: I only pay for amazon prime video and netflix , its not that much money to have it legally tyzef: netflix I just pay periodically too rindolf: It's very nonsense of course. "You can stream it but not save it.". stanrifkin_: i've been trying to promote open/free rindolf: The only thing I can make out of it is like "We always want to know what and when you're watching" stanrifkin_: i've been trying to promote open/free/share/remix culture, including commercial fan art https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qTIGg3I5y8 Title: Sesame Street: Share It Maybe ##programming Freenode