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Info about Shlomi Fish’s Qoheleth Story



The Fortunes Themselves

##English log about “Who the hell was Qoheleth”


messa4 hi rindolf
rindolf messa4: hi, welcome to ##English .
rindolf messa4: where we discuss everything and anything - mostly in English.
messa4 whats hypersexual? haha never heard this term before
rindolf messa4: a hypersexual is someone with a large sex drive.
messa4 haha
rindolf messa4: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypersexuality
messa4 thats good. that means that u are healthy male
rindolf messa4: yes.
messa4 totally normal. thats why ppl should get married. otherwise u will go insane haha
rindolf messa4: I think I hit second puberty now at close to 36.
rindolf messa4: my first one was at 18.
rindolf messa4: heh.
messa4 i think that most man are like that
messa4 including me
messa4 so bassicly
messa4 if u get job u should be married hehe
messa4 for me lack of job is only reason why im single for example. money is the key
rindolf messa4: I have a story in mind about the guy who wrote http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecclesiastes , whom after writing it (while being young and not-yet-married) becomes the talk of his city (= Damascus), and every single woman there wants him for herself, which drives him mad.
messa4 why mad?! :D
messa4 i would be happy haha
rindolf messa4: thing is - it was one of the best pieces of philosophy that Damascus has seen for years.
rindolf messa4: well, he is Jewish and does not want to have sex with virgins.
rindolf messa4: which is forbidden.
messa4 WHAAAT
messa4 so how they loose their virignity?!
rindolf messa4: after getting married to a virgin.
rindolf messa4: and having sex with her.
rindolf messa4: it's even more complicated for a Priest.
rindolf But he is from the tribe of Jehudah.
messa4 im cofuzed
rindolf messa4: his family was Jewish as far as he could tell.
messa4 so he dont want to sleep with virgins AT ALL? or just BEFORE MARRIAGE?
rindolf messa4: just before marriage.
messa4 ahh then its ok
messa4 so why not just marry and divorce like thousands of times haha
messa4 if every single woman wants him
messa4 i would do that :d
messa4 you got divorces in judaism?
mollies rindolf, hi
rindolf messa4: anyway, eventually he goes to the house of his friends, who are Greek, with whom he made the bet of being able to write there.
rindolf messa4: and he meets there their younger sister.
rindolf mollies: hi.
rindolf messa4: we have divorces, yes.
messa4 rindolf: tell me more. what he do with that sister hahaah. thats neat story
rindolf messa4: he can also marry more than one girl (up to reason) but he wants to marry a Jewess (so he'll have Jewish children)
messa4 thats intresting
messa4 i never know that jews can have more then one wife
messa4 knew*
rindolf messa4: this sister resembles my own, and is quite oblivious to social norms.
rindolf messa4: well, they no longer can usually.
messa4 but i mean from religion perspective. not law
rindolf messa4: some Jews are given explicit permission for that, but it's an exception.
messa4 permission by who?
rindolf messa4: yes, the Bible allows that.
messa4 thats so intersting
rindolf messa4: permission by the Rabinnat.
messa4 i never ever heard about it before. total ignorance
rindolf messa4: one of the European Rabbis decided to prevent polygamy.
rindolf messa4: which was accepted globally eventually.
rindolf messa4: bigamy is one wife too many.
messa4 but how one rabbi can change the meaning of bible[or whatever is used for this law]?
messa4 thats one thing that i hate about modern religions: ppl are modyfing it
messa4 unacepptable for me
rindolf messa4: anyway, so this sister, which I have nicknamed Horkeneah, sort of empathises with him, and tells him that she thought that the Scroll of Qoheleth was "allright' and better than the usual crap.
rindolf messa4: thing is: they talked to her as a baby, and taught her Greek and Aramic and she also learned to read and write, and is super-intelligent, and stuff like that.
rindolf messa4: and she's become a persona non-grata in several of the schools of philosophy in the city, for criticising what was said there.
rindolf messa4: and as it turns out she is actually Damascus' Alpha Female.
rindolf She had many suitors who proposed to her, but she rejected them all.
rindolf he asks her if she's a Lesbian, and she tells him that's not up her alley.
messa4 WAIT. whats "Scroll of Qohelet"
rindolf And then he (= Joseph, the guy who wrote Ecclesiastes) suddenly falls in love with her and asks her if she loves him.
messa4 and what she said?
rindolf So she tells him that she doesn't but she's really infatuated with him, and thinks the scroll was awesome, and that she also thinks that love in marriage is overrated.
rindolf messa4: Qoheleth is the Hebrew name for Ecclesiastes. It is the original name.
rindolf messa4: the story is called “So who the hell was Qoheleth?”
rindolf And it's also the opening story.
rindolf And it's also the opening line.
messa4 ok
messa4 what she said?!
messa4 so she said NO in general?
messa4 and what he said then?
rindolf He's getting asked that by a fellow Jew, who tells him that writing such good work of philosophy, although blasphemous was a huge "respect" for the Jews.
messa4 please dont tell me thats the end of story
rindolf messa4: no, she said yes.
rindolf messa4: it's not.
messa4 ahh ok :)
messa4 so they got married without love?
rindolf messa4: anyway, she tells him that her family was full of infidelity and outer-marriage relationships and other stuff like that - all because of love.
messa4 thats kinda ok if they are religious
messa4 ok. i see where this is going
rindolf messa4: while in his side, people did not expect to remain in love forever, and just stayed married.
rindolf messa4: so it works better that way.
rindolf messa4: eventually, she falls in love with him too.
messa4 that might be true actually
messa4 haha
rindolf messa4: anyway, she converts to Judaism and then they get married.
messa4 so why u think that love is evil?!
rindolf And then they travel to Alexandria.
messa4 ohh shit its not the end?! :
rindolf messa4: well, it's more like an elaborate joke.
messa4 ok im lisetning
rindolf messa4: the Love == Evil and Evil == Love.
rindolf messa4: well, most of the story is their trip through Phoenicia, Haifa and the Carmel heights, and later on Jaffa.
rindolf messa4: she becomes ill at Jaffa, and Joseph treats her (he's also a doctor)
messa4 but they got married, in love AND in religous way. so where is the evil?
rindolf messa4: and her life is spared.
messa4 Jaffa - like oranges? :D
rindolf messa4: that's something eles, unrelated.
rindolf messa4: yes, the older city south of Tel Aviv.
rindolf messa4: are you European?
rindolf messa4: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa
messa4 i know its a city. but its very famous for Jaffa oranges
rindolf messa4: yes.
rindolf messa4: not sure they grow a lot of oranges there any more.
messa4 i never knew that its in israel
rindolf Jaffa oranges is a brand.
rindolf messa4: heh.
messa4 you know whole palestine-israel thing issues :)
messa4 we are kinda behind here
rindolf messa4: Israel now imports some citrus fruit because it's cheaper to import them, because those from Israel cost more than the imports.
rindolf messa4: behind?
messa4 behind with all news
messa4 things like map of israel
messa4 etc
messa4 its changed a lot in past 40 years
messa4 but nvm
messa4 its shame that u have to import oranges. goverment should substitude them
rindolf messa4: well, that's life.
rindolf messa4: well, not sure about Oranges, but we have many other citrus fruit.
rindolf messa4: what do you mean by "substitude" them?
messa4 goverment should pay the farmers some premium. for example 1$ per 5kg of oranges
messa4 so they could compete with prices of cyprus/whatever oranges
messa4 most farmers in european union are getting paid by goverment in such way
messa4 otherwise we would be flooded by cheap food from china or whatever
messa4 and farmers would bankrupt
rindolf messa4: anyway, the story will have a lot of "into-the-future" stuff like the Arabian warfare, cognitive therapy of treating depression, and a Jewish priest they meet in Jaffa who had been practising throwing knives, and throws one a centimetre from Joseph.
messa4 haha. im waiting for my own CBT therapy haha
rindolf messa4: which causes Horkenah->Rivkah to first feel afraid, and then lustful.
messa4 whats Horkenah?
rindolf messa4: that's the name of the girl he marries.
messa4 ahh ok :D
rindolf messa4: his sister in effect - of Greek descent.
messa4 anyway. it might be grt be great story but its a lottlebit too complex for average people i think :)
messa4 be great*
messa4 littlebit*
rindolf messa4: I think one reason the Jewish scriptures survived intact was that every Jewish scholar was required to memorise the whole thing.
rindolf Like we now have with git.
rindolf messa4: yeah, maybe.
mollies rindolf, support your economy, buy local fruits :P
rindolf messa4: I have some more accessible stuff at http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/stories/
rindolf mollies: heh.
messa4 rindolf: i always though that jews have their old scriptures preserved.
rindolf mollies: I drink quite a lot of Orange Juice and lemonade.
messa4 mollies: hehe yeah
rindolf messa4: we do. Most of them at least.
rindolf messa4: some of them were lost.
mollies i don't drink orange juice but i eat oranges
rindolf messa4: there are much fewer corpora in Hebrew, Aramaic, Persian, etc. than in Greek or Latin.
rindolf messa4: in part because the Christians copies Greek and Latin all across Europe which was never united under a single reign.
rindolf messa4: while the Near East suffered a lot of destruction.
messa4 rindolf: tell me more about marriage. So jews can marry multiple woman if they have permission yes? that permission is from local priest/scholar or its like some top scholar in country?
binders there's the perseus corpora for greek, latin and arabic
rindolf messa4: well, it depends if you're a religious Jew.
messa4 religous
messa4 not by the law but religion
rindolf messa4: and even religious Jewish men can have affairs with divorcees.
rindolf messa4: OK.
rindolf messa4: in general, you can only marry one woman at a time.
rindolf messa4: but there are very few excpetions.
messa4 for example?
rindolf messa4: the Jewish religion often discriminates against men or against women.
messa4 rindolf: thats ok. just tell me. i want to know facts no- no judgment :)
rindolf messa4: OK.
rindolf messa4: I'm not an authority about the Jewish Halachah.
rindolf I mean the Jewish tradition.
messa4 thats ok. just tell me what u know
rindolf messa4: the English wikipedia has pretty good coverage.
rindolf messa4: I cannot tell you everything.
messa4 just tell me those few exceptions that u know :)
rindolf messa4: some men and women have dedicated their life to study Judaism, and there are still things they don't know.
rindolf messa4: OK.
rindolf messa4: the son or daughter of a Jewish woman is Jewish.
rindolf messa4: on the other hand, the son or daughter of a Jewish man is not necessarily one.
rindolf messa4: and it gets wackier with adoptions.
rindolf According to the Jewish tradition, a Jewess must not give away her offspring.
rindolf And it's hard to know what happens if she does.
rindolf messa4: there's also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sofer , which were once considered verboten for females.
rindolf messa4: moreover, homosexual intercourse among men is forbidden in the Bible, but not among two females.
messa4_ got disconnected
rindolf messa4_: so did I , heh.
messa4_ what u typed after "And it's hard to know what happens if she does." yes u got too
rindolf messa4_: <rindolf> messa4: there's also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sofer , which were once considered verboten for females.
rindolf * messa4_ (pawelsz@faeroes.sdf.org) has joined
rindolf <rindolf> messa4: moreover, homosexual intercourse among men is forbidden in the Bible, but not among two females.
rindolf messa4_: BTW, a woman can become a Rav.
messa4_ haha thats crazy
messa4_ whats "rav" ?
rindolf messa4_: a Rav is a Jew who can hold ceremonies.
rindolf messa4_: like marry people, etc.
messa4_ like rabbie?
rindolf messa4_: a Rabbi is something else - it's a community leader.
messa4_ ok
rindolf messa4_: though these terms are confused.
messa4_ but nvm. so what about polygamy? in what sitations its allowed
rindolf messa4_: a RAv is something like an M.A. in Judaism - requires a lot of study.
messa4_ rindolf: for me its totally new. i never heard about Rav before. like most ppl in europe propably :|
rindolf messa4_: my friend's wife became a Rav and got an M.A. in the process.
rindolf messa4_: OK.
messa4_ but lets go back to polygamy
mollies lol
messa4_ without all background stories hehe
rindolf messa4_: there isn't a lot of work as a Rav, so she was looking for a job.
rindolf messa4_: OK.
rindolf messa4_: well, a woman cannot have more than one husband.
rindolf messa4_: and the child of a married woman from her non-husband cannot be married.
mollies rindolf, i dont think polygamy has ever been allowed
rindolf mollies: it was.
messa4_ cant be married by NO ONE?
mollies but anyways, i need some zzz
rindolf mollies: in the Near East.
rindolf mollies: King Solomon had 200 wives and 800 mistresses.
mollies rindolf, people do it, but it's now allowed in the OT
mollies now/not
mollies night
rindolf mollies: OT?
rindolf mollies: night.
Maxdamantus Old trout
cntrational g'night mollies
Maxdamantus testiment*
rindolf Some states in .us now allow polygamy due to Mormonism.
rindolf Maxdamantus: testament.
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messa4_ mollies: im asking from ONLY religious perspective [not by the law of common life now] in what situations polygamy is allowed in judaism
Maxdamantus Yeah, that.
smgs808 .g
la_fen smgs808: .g what?
smgs808 .g 1234567891 http://indianrail.gov.in/pnr_Enq.html
la_fen smgs808: http://adventureanytime.blogspot.com/2012/12/pnr-information.html
messa4_ rindolf: so anyway. when polygamy for man is allowed? [except when he is a Kind Solomon :)]
messa4_ King*
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messa4_ i just need short answer haha. for example "u can marry 20 woman that you found during war etc. or: u can marry 20 orphans etc]
messa4_ straight to the point
smgs808 .g http://indianrail.gov.in/pnr_Enq.html 1234561115
rindolf messa4_: under very special circumstanses.
la_fen smgs808: No results found for 'http://indianrail.gov.in/pnr_Enq.html 1234561115'.
cntrational apparently they released a translation patch for Tales of the Tempest, the worst Tales of game
messa4_ rindolf: such as? im asking about them since 30 minutes :)
rindolf messa4_: there was something about a Jewish scholar who married someone who could only stay in the Land of Israel, and when he moved to .us was given permission to marry another woman.
cntrational http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=52514229&postcount=49
rindolf messa4_: and she was left in Israel alone.
Richard_Cavell rindolf: Why could she only stay in Israel?
rindolf messa4_: that's the only case I heard of.
messa4_ rindolf: thank you
rindolf Richard_Cavell: family mysticism.
Richard_Cavell ok
rindolf messa4_: sorry for delaying the answer.
messa4_ no problem :D
Richard_Cavell Are we looking at war, by the way?
rindolf messa4_: a woman cannot initiate a divorce in Judaism. :-(
messa4_ please continue talking about judaism if u want. Its very intresting for me.
rindolf Richard_Cavell: war?
Richard_Cavell With North Korea threatening the world, are we looking at WW3?
rindolf messa4_: OK.
rindolf Richard_Cavell: I hope not.
rindolf Richard_Cavell: and see https://bitbucket.org/shlomif/unarmed-blog/src/c0ea0108fa238dd53e21872b5b4433cb0f5203d6/essays/YouTube-Introduction-Transcript/intro.txt?at=default
messa4_ rindolf: in Islam they can hehe.
rindolf messa4_: yes.
messa4_ Maxdamantus: NK is threating and talking nonsence for past 20 years. nothing to worry about.
rindolf messa4_: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=you-are-banished
cntrational messa4_: *nonsense
messa4_ yeah
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messa4_ haha
rindolf messa4_: well, with a woman it's more complicated.
messa4_ rindolf: on linux/unix u have fortune program for random cookies
Richard_Cavell rindolf: Are you female?
Maxdamantus %ro שלומי פיש
Brainstorm Maxdamantus: The iw romanization failed, sorry!
rindolf messa4_: and according to Islamic law, a man can opt to keep his children.
rindolf Richard_Cavell: no, I'm male and straight.
messa4_ rindolf: yeah i know. but i think that up to age of 4 or 11? they are with mother.
rindolf Richard_Cavell: but I hate being a macho, and am always a gentleman.
Richard_Cavell that's good
Richard_Cavell So wait, Shlomi Fish is actually your real name?
rindolf Richard_Cavell: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour.html#Im_not_straight
Richard_Cavell I thought it was a nickname
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rindolf Richard_Cavell: yes - שלומי פיש
Maxdamantus Is Shlomi from the same root as Shalom?
rindolf Richard_Cavell: it's on my FAQ - http://www.shlomifish.org/meta/FAQ/
rindolf Maxdamantus: yes , it is.
messa4_ rindolf: at what age jewish ppl can marry? [by religion, not law]
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rindolf Maxdamantus: it means "Shalom-ful" or "My Shalom" or "The Shalom of Yehovah".
rindolf messa4_: any age they want.
Maxdamantus Ah.
rindolf messa4_: well, past "puberty".
Maxdamantus So it's the same suffix as in Arabic.
rindolf messa4_: which is 12 for girls and 13 for boys.
rindolf Maxdamantus: yes.
cntrational interesting
messa4_ thats the nanswer haha.
Maxdamantus Does your last name mean anything?
rindolf Maxdamantus: it's not Shalomi due to various Hebrew grammar laws.
rindolf Maxdamantus: it means the sea-animal in English or German.
Maxdamantus rindolf: what would "my starling" be?
cntrational Maxdamantus: according to his faq, it means "fish"
rindolf Maxdamantus: well, it's with an English spelling.
Maxdamantus Oh, is it just a translation?
Maxdamantus \tr פיש
che_fen Maxdamantus: "Fish" (iw to en, translate.google.com)
Richard_Cavell rindolf: How do you pronounce it?
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Richard_Cavell translate.google.com won't speak Hebrew
rindolf Maxdamantus: I was teased a lot about my last name as a child, but now it's great because I can use the EvilPHish emblem.
Maxdamantus shin, yod, pe
rindolf Richard_Cavell: fish in Hebrew is "Dag".
Maxdamantus \tr my starling
che_fen Maxdamantus: "my starling" (en to en, translate.google.com)
Maxdamantus \tr :en :iw my starling
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che_fen Maxdamantus: "זרזירי" (en to iw, translate.google.com)
Richard_Cavell rindolf: So in Israel you're Shlomi Dag?
rindolf Richard_Cavell: http://www.shlomifish.org/meta/FAQ/#your_name - pronunciation here in ogg and mp3
ron actually, fish in Hebrew would be pronounced closer to Dug than Dag.
rindolf Richard_Cavell: no.
cntrational huh, iw is an odd choice
messa4_ rindolf: in my country we had a LOT of hasidic jews before war. are they the same kind of jewish ppl who are living in israel? or its minority or what? [ imean in religous part of population]
rindolf Richard_Cavell: you don't translate names.
cntrational i'd expect iv
Maxdamantus That's my last name.
Maxdamantus It's the same in Hebrew, apparently.
rindolf messa4_: there are many Hasidic Jews here.
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rindolf messa4_: but there's a large rift between Hasidic Jews and non-Hasidic Jews.
rindolf messa4_: Judaism is pretty fractures.
messa4_ rindolf: do they speak hebrew or other launguage? [forgot the name: mix of polish, german, russian etc. ]
cntrational rindolf: do you know any yiddish or ladino or other jewish languages?
cntrational other than hebrew, of course
rindolf messa4_: but we are all united against our common enemy - the Goys!
messa4_ yiddish!
ron So... is there such a phrase in English as 'friend brings friend'? I'm looking to promote a hiring process by giving employees a referral bonus if they bring us people to the company.
messa4_ whaaat
rindolf messa4_: most of them also speak Hebrew.
cntrational .w goy
la_fen goy — noun: 1. A non-Jew, a Gentile
rindolf messa4_: well, technically, I'm an Orthodox Jew.
messa4_ rindolf: jews seriosly see non jews as enemis?! :D
messa4_ i mean religous one
Richard_Cavell rindolf: So how can you have an English word as your surname?
rindolf messa4_: it's just a part of Jewish elitism.
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rindolf Richard_Cavell: my Polish-Jewish grandfather carried it.
messa4_ rindolf: so religious jews in israel would not like be just becasue im not jewish? :|
rindolf messa4_: well...
cntrational Richard_Cavell: it's likely from German fisch, but the /ʃ/ sound is usually transliterated "sh" from hebrew
messa4_ thats kidna harsh
messa4_ kinda*
Zetetic Good old religion
rindolf messa4_: Jews see themselves as the guiding light of humanity - who are set to set a moral example.
rindolf messa4_: it was not uncommon among other people of the Near East.
rindolf But only Jews have maintained their identity.
Zetetic Which if you read the holy book is pretty laughable
rindolf In part due to their belief in Jehovah.
ron I don't see myself as guiding the light of humanity.
messa4_ messa4_: ok its ok. but im just confused: so for example I have sympathy for hasidic jews [becasue of common history] but now they suddenly dont like me becasue im goy? :(
rindolf ron: I do.
rindolf ron: I aim to be an example, and to lead and not follow.
Maxdamantus 20:07:39 < Maxdamantus> rindolf: can you pronounce זרזירי as well?
messa4_ welcome back
rindolf ron: and my stories reflect reality as I want it to become, rather than as badly as I or other people perceive it.
messa4_ rindolf: ok its ok. but im just confused: so for example I have sympathy for hasidic jews [becasue of common history] but now they suddenly dont like me becasue im goy? :(
ron rindolf: that's because you're an elitist.
rindolf Maxdamantus: Zarziri.
rindolf Maxdamantus: Zarzir is a kind of bird.
Maxdamantus Interesting.
Maxdamantus Yeah.
rindolf ron: I iz an elitist.
Richard_Cavell messa4_: Thanks. Sorry that my computer hanged and I didn't read anything since the last thing I typed
Maxdamantus That's my name.
rindolf messa4_: they could like you.
Maxdamantus but it's actually in Arabic, but only the vowels are different.
Maxdamantus only the second one, apparently.
rindolf messa4_: and if you're a man, you can marry a Jewess and have Jewish children, and all will be fine.
ron rindolf: and you make generalizations, which make non-orthodox jews wary of you.
messa4_ Richard_Cavell: that was my quote heh. we all got disconnections here
rindolf ron: I make some generalisations, and I apologise for that.
rindolf ron: I also can be stereotypical.
ron rindolf: no kidding.
rindolf ron: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/TOWTF/ - this story is fully of cheap stereotypes.
messa4_ rindolf: so its just a matter of "taste" or all hasidic jews in israel suddenly dont like goys from europe/whatever?
messa4_ and i mean from religious point of view.
rindolf messa4_: well, it's not exclusive to Hasidic Jews.
rindolf messa4_: and we like goys.
rindolf messa4_: just that we consider Jews as "ones of our own".
rindolf messa4_: it's complicated.
rindolf messa4_: BTW, are you a software dev?
Maxdamantus So I'm a bird, rindolf's a fish.
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cntrational gotta head out for an english exam, ciao
Maxdamantus \tr :en :ar fish
messa4_ messa4_: wanna-be software dev :) python, some C, tcl
che_fen Maxdamantus: "سمك" (en to ar, translate.google.com)
Maxdamantus smk
rindolf Heh.
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rindolf MAybe it means "to fish"
rindolf Better use wiktionary for that.
rindolf Or a better and non-free/open dictionary.
Maxdamantus \tr :en :ar my fish
che_fen Maxdamantus: "بلدي الأسماك" (en to ar, translate.google.com)
Maxdamantus O_o
rindolf Heh, gaws.
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Maxdamantus \tr بلدي. الأسماك.
che_fen Maxdamantus: "My country. Fish ." (ar to en, translate.google.com)
rindolf \tr :en :he my fish
che_fen rindolf: "הדגים שלי" (en to he, translate.google.com)
rindolf Heh.
Maxdamantus Where did country come from?
rindolf I meant in singular.
rindolf Maxdamantus: how do men make war?
messa4_ rindolf: so by religion its ok for jews to like goys? or its not advised?
messa4_ recommended*
messa4_ in islam for example is not recommended. but ok
messa4_ its*
Maxdamantus rindolf: by convincing populations that other populations are bad people.
messa4_ my god. i got 15seconds lag
messa4_ 22 seonds
rindolf Maxdamantus: that's a reference to https://www.google.com/search?q=where%20does%20babby%20come%20from
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Maxdamantus I've س that.
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rindolf messa4: it's complicated - Judaism is so contradictory.
rindolf meese: even the five books of the Torah are contradictory.
rindolf messa4*: even the five books of the Torah are contradictory.
rindolf messa4: you always need to use reason.
Maxdamantus \tr :en :he I like to fish
che_fen Maxdamantus: "אני אוהב לדוג" (en to he, translate.google.com)
rindolf Maxdamantus: good translation.
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Maxdamantus I'd probably say "I like fishing"
Maxdamantus Rather than "I like to fish"
rindolf messa4: anyway, it's more like elitism than anything else.
Maxdamantus \w לדוג
che_fen Couldn't get any definitions for לדוג.
Maxdamantus \w :he לדוג
che_fen Couldn't get any definitions for לדוג.
Maxdamantus \w :iw לדוג
che_fen IOError: [Errno socket error] [Errno -2] Name or service not known (file "/usr/lib/python2.7/socket.py", line 553, in create_connection)
rindolf meese: traditionally the Judeo-Christian ethics were very sexist - http://unarmed.shlomifish.org/2396.html
rindolf meese: sorry.
rindolf messa4: ^^^
messa4 rindolf: i didnt know that religious jews are into elitism thing. unlike zionist jews. but it seems that i was wrong ahah :)
messa4 i dont mind "sexism"
messa4 becasue im ok with religion
messa4 whatever god is telling its ok
rindolf messa4: women could not write books, or philosophise, or perform at plays/etc.
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rindolf messa4: and men were not supposed to cook.
messa4 rindolf: hehe. thats normal values ;]
Maxdamantus \tr :en :he random
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che_fen Maxdamantus: "אקראי" (en to he, translate.google.com)
rindolf messa4: nowadays some of the most acclaimed authors and actors are female.
Maxdamantus מזנון
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rindolf messa4: part of it is due to technological (both tangible and intellectual) advancement.
messa4 rindolf: is there anything that man cant do, and its accepted in non religious world?
Maxdamantus \w :he cat
che_fen Couldn't get any definitions for cat.
Maxdamantus \w :he CAT
che_fen Couldn't get any definitions for CAT.
rindolf messa4: thing is I've been an idealist for many years now, but my idealism has always changed.
Maxdamantus \w :he הדמיה
che_fen Couldn't get any definitions for הדמיה.
rindolf Maxdamantus: please take it to PM.
messa4 rindolf: for me its ok. as i said: im ok with religion so im not jugmental about religious rules. i have more respect for them then man made laws heh
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rindolf messa4: ah.
messa4 rindolf: i know u wrote about it in rindolfism :D
rindolf messa4: I think religion is man-made too.
messa4 blasphemy!
messa4 :D
messa4 so wait
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messa4 this is even more funny
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messa4 so u are saying that u are jew becasue of jewish blood of mother - and religion is nothing to do with that?
rindolf messa4: thing is a lot fo Leviticus/etc. in the Bible was thrown together out of paranoia.
rindolf messa4: kinda.
rindolf messa4: well, I'm Jewish as far as my eye can see.
rindolf messa4: though we used to be peasant Jews.
messa4 my god. so jewish ppl are not seen themselfs as "followers of judaism religion" but as blood "race" ?
rindolf messa4: well, my grandmother's father was from Vilnius (= the Jerusalem of Lithuania) and was a big scholar.
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rindolf messa4: I read some of his books - awesome stuff.
messa4 in polish Vilnius its called Wilno. it was polish before the war hehe but shh
messa4 rindolf: so jewish ppl are not seen themselfs as "followers of judaism religion" but as blood "race" ?
rindolf messa4: yes, it passed through several sovereignships between 1900 and 2000.
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rindolf messa4: well, it's more complicated.
Maxdamantus The Hebrew wiktionary is weird.
rindolf messa4: being a Jew or a Jewess is a big responsibility.
Maxdamantus It's got "ROFL" and "WTF", but not "cat"
messa4 i do understand whole "who is the jew" thing [there is nice wiki article] but i want to know what jewish ppl think about that in general
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rindolf Maxdamantus: it's חתול in Hebrew.
rindolf messa4: well, it's complicated.
rindolf messa4: I like being a Jew, but I have to prove myself.
Maxdamantus Mm, but the Wiktionaries tend to have at least a few English words.
Maxdamantus \w :fr cat
che_fen cat — nom commun: 1. Variante de chat, 2. (Zoologie) Chat, chatte (animal) — locution adverbiale: 1. Mépris indifférent, 2. Immédiatement après, aussitôt après, dès que — symbole: 1. (Linguistique) Code ISO 639-3 du&#160;catalan — onomatopée: 1. Onomatopée exprimant l'indifférence
rindolf messa4: and some Jews, including our prime minister are a disgrace to Judaism.
messa4 for example: if most ppl in israel would be jew by BLOOD but muslims by religions - they will still have jewish elitism thing?
messa4 wow
rindolf messa4: someone who converted to Christianity or Islam is no longer a Jew.
messa4 ok good
Maxdamantus Who's to say he's a disgrace to Judaism?
messa4 and for u for example: its more about blood or faith?
rindolf messa4: on the other hand, the children of an Atheist Jewess are 100% Jewish.
rindolf messa4: it's not about faith.
messa4 u feel jewish becasue u belive in faith or becasue of blood requirments?
messa4 ok
messa4 very strange
rindolf messa4: I really hope God is not the one in the Bible.
rindolf messa4: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=if-God-exists
messa4 haha
messa4 srindolf: so its even more confuzing. so those previously mentioned hasidic jews might not like me becasue Im have just blood of non jew? and religion doesnt matter?
rindolf messa4: I think we should even ditch part of the Ten Commandments.
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messa4 I have*
rindolf messa4: listen, Judaism is positively huge.
messa4 i know i know
messa4 but im just trying to udnerstand the faith/blood balance
rindolf messa4: well...
rindolf messa4: Judaism is a culture, an ethnicity.
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messa4 i mean i would expect that for hasidic jews [ultra orthodox] its more about faith then blood and stuff
messa4 but im wrong heh
rindolf messa4: and the Jews have incorporated elements of their surrounding environment by infusion, influence, and by blood (marrying with former gentiles).
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messa4 for example in islam: race, blood, coluor - doesnt matter at all. its just faith
rindolf messa4: yes.
messa4 thats why im shocked. kinda opposite
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rindolf messa4: the Jews nowadays have lots of influences by many people.
messa4 rindolf:
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messa4 good or bad influances? :D
rindolf messa4: Greek, Egyptians, Mesupotamians, Slavs, Germanic, Celtic, Roman, etc, etc.
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rindolf messa4: American typically think that Jewish girls are unattractive, but they obviously have not been to Tel Aviv...
messa4 btw its shocking becasue nazi did the same to jews: they classifed them by BLOOD. kinda ironic
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rindolf messa4: yes.
messa4 rindolf: haha thats true about girls. i also find them unatracctive from what i have seen in internet
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messa4 but you must be right :)
rindolf messa4: when you let Jews loose into their surroundings then Bad Things Happen. After the Christian ruling of Spain, many Jews opted to convert to Christianity, and now 25% of the Spanish males have a Jewish Y chromosome.
messa4 dint know that haha
rindolf messa4: http://www.flickr.com/photos/shlomif/ - some hot Jewish chicks.
messa4 they look like from lebanon lol
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messa4 some jewish girls have big noses tho. im serious
messa4 hmm. didnt know that u got blone jewish womans
rindolf messa4: yes, I kinda noticed it too.
rindolf messa4: we do. :-)
rindolf messa4: well, some chicks colour their hair.
messa4 and naturally?
rindolf messa4: some also naturally.
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rindolf messa4: primarily children can be blond.
rindolf messa4: my father was blond as a boy, but later became black-haired.
messa4 im kinda opposite. when im on sun my hair become lighter
messa4 i mean if u are for 2 weeks in spain for example
rindolf messa4: ah.
rindolf messa4: ah.
rindolf messa4: my hair was always black.
rindolf messa4: but I kinda resemble my father.
rindolf messa4: my sisters had light brown hair as children.
rindolf messa4: one of them is still not completely black-haired.
messa4 most of those girls on photos doesnt look jewish haha
rindolf messa4: and our hairs have been turning grey/white. :-(
messa4 like gandalf :D
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messa4 man you got great weather there
rindolf messa4: have you seen Spaceballs?
messa4 on every single photo
messa4 star wars parody? :)
messa4 then yes. but may years ago
rindolf messa4: Lone Starr: "Just what we need! A Druish Princess." Barf: "Funny! She doesn't look Druish."
rindolf messa4: watch it again.
rindolf messa4: it's one of the bestest movies ever.
messa4 heh
messa4 wait
messa4 http://www.flickr.com/photos/shlomif/3419217176/in/photostream
messa4 whaaat u also got Broth?
messa4 we have the same but iwthout peas
rindolf messa4: my mother prepared it.
messa4 usually just with egg. or with potatoes
rindolf messa4: not sure it's called "Broth".
rindolf messa4: ah.
rindolf messa4: we call it "נזיד" in Hebrew.
rindolf It's a Biblical word.
rindolf Nezid.
messa4 intresting
messa4 we also eat it with pasta
messa4 or even entire chicken inside
messa4 anyway
rindolf messa4: ah, OK.
messa4 a lot of polish food is simialr to what jews are eating. or opposite
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rindolf messa4: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_cuisine
messa4 the whole hasidic jews had huge impact
rindolf messa4: yes.
messa4 i started discovering it few years ago. most ppl are not aware of it at all
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rindolf messa4: I'm not a big fan of most Eastern European Jewish food.
messa4 even some "national" food is jewish. or maybe adopted by jews. who knows
rindolf messa4: too unspicey and unedgy for me.
messa4 haha
rindolf messa4: I prefer more mideastern food.
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messa4 i like polish food
rindolf messa4: and Italian/Chinese/Thai/American/etc. food is also good.
messa4 even in UK im eating that kinda of food for dinner usually
rindolf Now some people like Ethiopian food.
messa4 such us? never heard of any
rindolf messa4: I didn't either.
rindolf messa4: I never ate Sushi.
rindolf My father doesn't like it.
messa4 me neither haha
rindolf Lots of geek seem to like it a lot.
messa4 LMAO!!!
rindolf geeks.
messa4 Armeniadoma - Stuffed vine leaves. do u eat if often?
rindolf messa4: ah, yes, I love them.
rindolf messa4: with rice, right?
messa4 im laughing becasue i just ate very similar [but from cabbage instead vine leaves] few days ago!
messa4 RICE and mushrooms
messa4 and meat
messa4 and tomato souce
rindolf Ah, I only like the ones at restaurants.
messa4 or not rice but [let me find the word]
rindolf messa4: I ate at a Czech restaurant the other day.
rindolf messa4: the food was OK, but I didn't really love the dish.
messa4 we made it with "Groat" (is that english word for it?) isntead rice usually
rindolf messa4: ah, but I had a great time at the Mongolian grill bar.
rindolf messa4: but it costs a lot of money.
messa4 wow thats exotic
messa4 anyway
rindolf Something like 100 ILS/person - 150 ILS/person now.
rindolf I think they are very popular.
messa4 Armeniadoma - Stuffed vine leaves. thats what i was talking about. We seem it as one of the "national dishes" in poland. but u got the same in israel
messa4 how much is 1ILS in $?
rindolf messa4: do you have many foreign-style restaurants in .pl?
messa4 well i lvie in uk since few years so i dont know current state. but in general: no really. or if we do: they are kinda fake
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messa4 u can get sushi or piza or whatever. but u know - its made by local ppl
messa4 so i would say that not really imo
messa4 we dont have strong resturants or fast food culture
rindolf messa4: ah, I see.
rindolf messa4: ah, OK.
rindolf messa4: I was told many poles immigrated to .uk.
rindolf messa4: where do you live there?
messa4 about 2 millions at least
rindolf messa4: millions? Seriously?
rindolf Wow.
rindolf A lot.
messa4 very serious
rindolf Ah.
messa4 in just few years timespan
rindolf Wow.
messa4 everyone was shocked hehe
rindolf OK.
messa4 massive exodus. like jews from egypt hahahaha
rindolf messa4: heh.
messa4 I was from northern part. but born in Krakow
rindolf messa4: ah.
rindolf messa4: where do you live in .uk?
messa4 a lot of hasidic jews there before war
rindolf messa4: yes.
rindolf messa4: was Krakow destroyed ?
messa4 in North-west.
messa4 rindolf: not at all
rindolf messa4: ah, that's great.
messa4 one ofthe few cities not destroyed very much
messa4 becasue krakow was headquater of nazi officials in occupied poland
rindolf Mother fucking nazis.
messa4 hehe
messa4 yeah we dont like them too
rindolf messa4: http://www.flickr.com/photos/shlomif/8424748431/in/photostream/
rindolf messa4: not sure if you saw it.
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messa4 even today germans are trying to say that there was more antisemitism in poland before war then in nazi germany. i fuckin hate them
rindolf messa4: thing is even if Hitler did not kill millions of Jews, he was still one hell of a motherfucker.
messa4 you know rindolf
rindolf messa4: thing is at any point you can say "No" to your oppressor.
messa4 for us even without jews is a big problem: remember that A LOT of polish population died in camps. not just jews
rindolf Which can be a "fuck you" or a whining like I tend to do.
rindolf messa4: yes, I know.
messa4 rindolf: bassicly germans are trying to convice the world that is was not their goverment who sanctioned holocaust. but it was polish fault
messa4 its insanse. few days ago there was big beef becasue german tv made some movie about such lies
messa4 and some uneducated germans might belive in that shit fully
messa4 thats why i hate nazis and germans
messa4 ps. there was antisemitism in poland as well. but for fuck sake - it was not even 1% of what they did in germany.
messa4 btw
messa4 there is funny story
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messa4 in 1968 communist goverment in poland. exiled all jews from poland [well not all but u know]
messa4 including top ranking policians, and secret police members
messa4 and funny part is that
messa4 that was all becasue of Israel. Israel was in war back then with Egypt and whatever [u know better]. and some polish ppl [jewish] went to streets in poland with flags and shit and supported isreal :D hehe and thats ok but goverment was supporting THE OTHER SIDE of war :D
messa4 so they were very angly. its like supporting opposing side during the war. so in most dumb decision ever they decided them to send them all to israel
messa4 and its funny becasue it was not becasue of antisemitism - but after that goverment was antisemitic. like going back in evolution
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rindolf messa4: ah, OK.
rindolf messa4: there are very few Jews left in Poland.
rindolf messa4: I don't think WWII was about antisemitism.
rindolf messa4: and the American Civil War was not about slavery.
messa4 rindolf: there are more and more jews after 1989
rindolf messa4: ah.
rindolf messa4: OK.
rindolf messa4: immigrants?
rindolf messa4: BTW, Polish culture had quite a lot of influence on Israel.
rindolf messa4: well, German culture too.
rindolf messa4: the earliest waves of Zionist immigrants were from Russia, Poland and Germany.
messa4 and imo u are wrong .second WW was about jews hehe. 1933-39 - major attacks on german jews. that gave the power to hitler to invade europe - people german ppl truly belived that it was all fault of jews - so war is OK
messa4 i think that 1933-39 is even more scarry then holocaust itself
messa4 becasue:
rindolf messa4: well, antisemitism played a large role in it.
rindolf messa4: anyway, we are getting into dangerous territory here.
rindolf WWII/Hitler/Nazism.
rindolf http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=sharp-perl-how-to-stop-a-discussion
messa4 1. germans were not at war at all yet with anyway BUT 2. It was possible BY THE LAW AND DEMOCARATIC GOVERMENT: to transofrm jews into underclass - take away they rights and even put some of them into camps way before holocaust concept [Dachau]
messa4 and 3. they proved how MEDIA [radio and newspaper] can destroy minds of ppl: convincing them that they need to hate jews
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messa4 why dangerous territory?
rindolf messa4: well, I think any constitutional discrimination is bad, especially what's going on in Israel now.
smgs808 .w bills
la_fen bills — noun: 1. Plural form of bill — verb: 1. Third-person singular simple present indicative form of bill
smgs808 .w vouchers
la_fen vouchers — noun: 1. Plural form of voucher — verb: 1. Third-person singular simple present indicative form of voucher
messa4 rindolf: exactly my point!! :) World didnt do SHIT to help jews in 1933-39 in germany - and look how it ended?
rindolf smgs808: the kill bill.
rindolf messa4: yes.
rindolf messa4: did you hear of Neo-Tech?
messa4 becasue it was "legal" in germany to persecute jew. biggest tragedy of XX century imo. [whole LAW prcoess made evil legal]
messa4 nope
smgs808 :c
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rindolf messa4: http://www.shlomifish.org/n-t-/
rindolf messa4: the so-called "Neo-Tech cosmic power" book was the most influential book I read.
smgs808 .w bill
la_fen bill — noun: 1. Any of various bladed or pointed hand weapons, originally designating an Anglo-Saxon sword, and later a weapon of infantry, especially in the 14th and 15th centuries, commonly consisting of a broad, heavy, double-edged, hook-shaped blade, with a short pike at the back and anot[...]
rindolf messa4: it's positively awesome, but seems very farfetched.
messa4 what is ti about?
rindolf messa4: http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/philosophy/guide-to-neo-tech/
messa4 i dont like philosophy
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rindolf messa4: but I think the world caught up.
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rindolf messa4: ah, you should.
rindolf messa4: though 90% of philosophy is crap.
messa4 its not that im closed minded. im open. but i prefer religion to philosophy
rindolf messa4: but philosophy is incredibly useful.
rindolf messa4: ah.
rindolf messa4: religion is-a philosophy.
messa4 partly
rindolf messa4: and there's a lot of awesome stuff in non-religious stuff.
messa4 the
messa4 neo-tech page that u linked in your webpage is broken :(
messa4 rindolf: for example what?
rindolf messa4: and modern franchises of fiction are also philosophy: Star Trek , Buffy, The Three Musketeers, Friends, etc. etc.
rindolf messa4: also Aesop's fables.
rindolf messa4: and the Greek mythology.
messa4 since i learned some physics [some basics of quantum mechanics, atoms, gravity, string theories etc] and i discovered religon - i dont think that i need anything else hehe
rindolf Which was once a religion, but now is no longer taken seriously.
rindolf messa4: ah.
rindolf messa4: I always try to gain more an more external influences.
messa4 for me physics+religion is way to go. even most ultra-orthodox
rindolf messa4: now I started watching My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic.
rindolf messa4: and some people play games.
messa4 whaat
messa4 where doest that phonies come from?
rindolf messa4: do you listen to popular songs? Or covers of them on youtube.
messa4 i mean we were talking about mythology and suddenly u talking about pink pony :D
rindolf messa4: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Little_Pony:_Friendship_Is_Magic
rindolf messa4: MLP is a cult T.V. show among some grown up men. It's great.
messa4 inever heard about it haha
rindolf messa4: do you read xkcd?
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messa4 sometimes
rindolf messa4: well, I think it's more of an American thing.
rindolf messa4: ah.
messa4 but i would not call it "reading" :)
messa4 its a comics
messa4 wait
messa4 waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaait
rindolf messa4: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Summerschool-at-the-NSA/ongoing-text.html#we_are_scheming - this is kinda an xkcd fan fiction, and I also reference MLP and drug abuse.
messa4 i remember those ponies from tv when i was a kid
messa4 rindolf: i already know "Summerschool-at-the-NSA" screen play :)
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rindolf messa4: ah, that was a different incarnation.
rindolf messa4: did you read it yet?
rindolf messa4: thing is - you need good philosophy to write good fiction.
rindolf messa4: and I think it's important not to speak in riddle, and be honest.
messa4 i did read it fully like one week ago. and we were talking about it. I said that it had hillarious moments, but i didnt understand it all, and you chaning the storyline too fast and too rapidly :D
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rindolf messa4: ah, I see.
rindolf messa4: OK.
rindolf messa4: OK, maybe it's a known bug.
rindolf messa4: my stories cannot be everything for everyone.
messa4 rindolf: you just just write some neat story about judaism but WITHOUT time travel, terminator, computers or vampires references :) heehehhe
rindolf messa4: "please all and ye shall please none" -- Aesop.
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messa4 becasue for me: your stories are intresting - but then in the middle of fun u are chaning whole theme :D
messa4 changing*
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rindolf messa4: ah.
rindolf messa4: well, I'm not a purist of anything.
rindolf messa4: I feel art should be mixed and matched.
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rindolf messa4: you may enjoy my shorter stuff more.
rindolf I-Love-Boobies: hi.
messa4 anyway: why u need some extra philosphy if u got whole judaism mysticism right in front of u?
I-Love-Boobies Hi.
rindolf messa4: like the Chuck Norris factoids, or the aphorisms or quotes.
messa4 i mean i bet that u can find some intresting stuff in it
rindolf messa4: "All truth is God's truth"
messa4 and not main stream
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rindolf messa4: I need to see past the limitations of Judaism.
messa4 what limitations?
rindolf messa4: into stuff like Star Trek, Buffy, My Little Pony, internet culture, open source, etc.
messa4 u are studying this tuff for thousands of years and u still dont know anything. so its kinda unlimited source to get new ideas
I-Love-Boobies And past its lack of evidence, of course.
messa4 i dont know rindolf
rindolf messa4: I prefer to learn horizontally rather than vertically.
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rindolf messa4: I can never learn every word in English, but that should not stop me from improving my French, or learning German or whatever.
messa4 shame
rindolf messa4: shame?
rindolf messa4: I'm learning many English words.
messa4 shame: u have great knowlege about judaism stuff and philosphy etc. and u are choosing to focus on buffy or star trek? :P
I-Love-Boobies Isn't that also learning vertically?
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rindolf messa4: I'm not focusing on anything.
rindolf messa4: well, I do.
rindolf messa4: Judaism is a large part of me.
rindolf I-Love-Boobies: it is, but I learn them as I run into them.
I-Love-Boobies Why?
rindolf I-Love-Boobies: the ones I don't know don't hurt me much.
rindolf I-Love-Boobies: some people forgot which words are useful.
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I-Love-Boobies How much does the one you know hurt you and how much does it hurt others?
messa4 brb
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rindolf I-Love-Boobies: do the words "fuck you" hurt you much?
rindolf I-Love-Boobies: how about the words "go to hell, idiot?".
rindolf I-Love-Boobies: how about the words "go to hell, idiot!".
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rindolf I-Love-Boobies: BTW, which boobies do you love the most?
I-Love-Boobies I'm not talking about "just words." I'm talking about actions.
messa4 lmao
messa4 im back
messa4 anyway
I-Love-Boobies It takes religion to make a good person do wicked things.
messa4 rindolf: write some story without time travel and stuff. constant theme. and i would love to read it
messa4 for example: "what if torah would be closed source" :D
I-Love-Boobies Not because they want to be bad, but because they think their ideology provides absolute morality.
messa4 oh my god
messa4 I-Love-Boobies: thats true. but thats not bad thing becasue religion is always good
messa4 thats why religon is with us for thousand of years
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messa4 s
messa4 if would be evil: it would be banished
I-Love-Boobies Good? It makes people hate homosexuals, fight wars for gods for which they have no evidence, ban stem cell research (which has the potential to help so many), fly planes into buildings, subjugate women, burn people who find things which contradict the holy books, etc.
I-Love-Boobies Given that we have no scientific evidence, it is extremely likely that we did all this and much more in vain...
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Maxdamantus How does having something for thousands of years suggest it's good?
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Maxdamantus We had human sacrifices .. forever.
rindolf messa4: I have much more normal short stories.
rindolf messa4: did you read http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/human-hacking/ ? It's close to being 100% realism.
rindolf messa4: but I reference popular culture. I have to.
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Maxdamantus messa4: lots of Germans apparently thought Nazism was good.
Maxdamantus messa4: it took outside forces to banish it.
Maxdamantus messa4: people don't just banish things they're brainwashed to believe in.
furrykef People are sheep.
furrykef Especially those who watch Fox News.
* furrykef runs
Maxdamantus Why doesn't Fox News banish itself?
rindolf furrykef: meow.
rindolf furrykef: Apple fanboys are sheep too.
furrykef meowmeow.
messa4 afk brb
furrykef Don't get me started on Apple.
rindolf furrykef: but many like https://www.google.com/search?q=ijustine are critical.
Maxdamantus furrykef: baah*
rindolf I mean they are self-critical.
rindolf furrykef: BTW, did you watch Sheep in the Big City? It was great.
furrykef I did! I loved that show.
furrykef It still isn't on DVD or anything yet, is it?
rindolf furrykef: yeah.
rindolf furrykef: don't think so.
Maxdamantus On a related note: https://gist.github.com/Maxdamantus/055d96b3f28d8facfb97/raw/146.png
furrykef It's like the show just got thrown under the bus.
I-Love-Boobies There is a difference between being a fan and the inability of recognizing evidence. Apple fanboys know what they're paying and have made their choice.
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I-Love-Boobies Opinion vs fact.
furrykef Man, I just realized it was about ten years ago I was watching that show
messa4 back
I-Love-Boobies I liked that show, too, btw. :D
messa4 Maxdamantus: maybe u are right. but in my opinion: religion is ok. i woudln't mind to live under orthodox jews rule or in christian empire or under muslim calpiphate. for me religion maks more sense then constantly changing values and laws of modern politics
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I-Love-Boobies messa4: It's not values that establish the validity of something---it's evidence.
Maxdamantus messa4: being able to change values makes more sense than accepting that values should all come from second-hand accounts of what some guy said 2000 years ago.
messa4 Maxdamantus: there are some fist hand accounts in other religions (like islam)
Maxdamantus or 1400 years ago, or whatever.
Maxdamantus Yes, or even first-hand accounts 1400 years ago.
messa4 anyway. i would rater belive in value system that is CONSTANT for thousand year. then for system that is changing by 180* in just few dacades
I-Love-Boobies Islam did well for itself, didn't it. The greatest civilization went to shit as soon as math and religion collided.
messa4 70 yares ago it was ok to shoot jew in germany. now its evil. fuck that kind of value system
rindolf I think the only difference between Star Trek/Buffy/The Greek Mythology/etc. and the Bible is that some people think the Bible is The Word of God.
I-Love-Boobies messa4: Nice values, too. Should they keep them?
Maxdamantus messa4: people come up with new value systems (religions) all the time.
Maxdamantus messa4: I don't think many people really have the same value system as JC.
messa4 Maxdamantus: Orthodox jews or muslims are bleiving the the same values and laws since day 1
messa4 for me this is way to go
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messa4 even if ua re not religeious
Maxdamantus messa4: it'll be the one of the Anglican church in their country, or the Catholic church, or something.
Maxdamantus messa4: I think in the US there are like .. thousands of churches, each with their own belief systems.
Maxdamantus messa4: some churches there support gay marriage.
I-Love-Boobies Personally, I'd like to have a morality that is subject to discourse not some rigid rules that you can't change when they prove to be detrimental.
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Maxdamantus messa4: 2000-year-old belief systems don't work.
I-Love-Boobies Or that require mental gymnastics to work around.
Maxdamantus messa4: very few people are really willing to believe them.
messa4 Maxdamantus: so what? enforce the law
Maxdamantus messa4: that's why you have what you have today—people don't REALLY believe others should be stoned for working on Sunday.
I-Love-Boobies Like in Christianity.
messa4 exactly like u enforce NORMAL law
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messa4 for me its no diffrence
messa4 but if i could choose - i would rather follow stable non chaning archaic rules then new rules every 10 years totally oposing those from 50 years before
Maxdamantus messa4: they don't REALLY believe women should marry their rapists if they can't find four men to testify in their favour.
Frogulis \w palimpsest
che_fen palimpsest — verb: 1. To scrape clean, as in parchment, for reuse, 2. On paper: to reuse, often by erasure or change of pen direction or color. Especially fueled by Earth Day — noun: 1. A manuscript or document that has been erased or scraped clean, for reuse of the paper, parchment, vellum[...]
I-Love-Boobies messa4: Because you are against us evolving as a society?
I-Love-Boobies messa4: Do you think it would be good if they decided that in the medieval times and stuck to it?
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messa4 yes
messa4 but thats just my opinion
I-Love-Boobies Then you are evil since you advocate suffering.
I-Love-Boobies Either that or inconsistent in your beliefs.
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messa4 i advocate stable laws that are stable for thousands of years. not some stupidty made by humans every few years
Maxdamantus messa4: what happens when the next religion comes along?
Maxdamantus messa4: each religion just replaces another.
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messa4 no its not
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Maxdamantus messa4: it itself changes beliefs.
messa4 you got judaism. after it christianity and islam - neither was replaced.
Maxdamantus messa4: to have consistent beliefs, you'd need to go back to the beginnings of civilisations.
messa4 jews are still beliving in judaism
messa4 and still practising its laws [orthodox]
I-Love-Boobies The laws from back then were developed by humans too. Except they were more crewel becasue we didn't lean how to be a society yet.
Maxdamantus messa4: Christianity replaced Judaism for many people.
messa4 anyway i dont care my friends. for me mix religious laws + scientific progress is way to go. i dont want any social progress at all
Maxdamantus messa4: you seem to contradict yourself.
Maxdamantus messa4: is Christianity legitimate or not?
messa4 u asking in general or my personal belief?
Maxdamantus messa4: it's one of the religions you listed, but it's just a belief system that replaced another (Judaism).
Maxdamantus Your personal belief.
I-Love-Boobies Also, even if you might have heard otherwise, science and religion are in contradiction to one another.
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messa4 my personal belief is that islam, judaism and chiristianity is the same religion. aka Monotheism. oryginal religion of Abraham
Maxdamantus (note though, as I alluded to earlier, there isn't really any "Christianity" anymore)
messa4 so i could live under judaism islam or christian system of values
messa4 and be ok
Maxdamantus (it's now Catholicism, Anglicanism, Lutherism, etc)
Maxdamantus (all different belief systems)
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I-Love-Boobies Maxdamantus: Which is ironic. They love to talk about absolute values and yet there are as many Christianities as believers in Christianity.
messa4 its true with christianity. but islam and judaism is not that fragmented
I-Love-Boobies True.
I-Love-Boobies Maxdamantus: I mean even Catholics disagree in their interpretations in ways that agree which each individual views on other things.
Maxdamantus The Catholic church believed in purgatory until a few years ago.
Maxdamantus afk
Maxdamantus and Islam and Judaism are in no way constant either.
messa4 and seriously: why follow some law made by politician, when we could follow law made thousand years ago. even if u dont belive in it - its more realible and STABLE. nothing worse then unstable law [in one minute u can kill all jews by signing single law]
Maxdamantus rindolf was talking earlier about how scholars *believe* particular things.
Maxdamantus Based on the way they understand the Torah
messa4 Maxdamantus: islam is constant. thats why its so primitive and archaic. not even single letter was changed in quran since beggining, and all laws are the same. thats why they are so strange
messa4 but its ok for me personally
I-Love-Boobies messa4: Is it okay when they subjugate their women or kill each other in the street?
I-Love-Boobies Why?
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messa4 I-Love-Boobies: go and study
I-Love-Boobies Pardon?
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I-Love-Boobies It's easy to dismiss uncomfortable questions...
messa4 i dont want to discuss about it. but it seems that u have deep misunderstanding of islamic laws. but u can learn a littlebit about it. plenty of sources
messa4 its like saying: is it ok for christians to kill jews?
messa4 generalization and shit
messa4 so im not gonna discuss it.
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I-Love-Boobies Is anyone else amused at this? :)
messa4 and as i said: i dont mind living under orthodox jewish or islamc law.
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I-Love-Boobies Because you are not the target of anyone.
Skunky because he's a guy not a girl
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marzipig Pretty sure I'd be executed under Jewish or Islamic law
marzipig because Allah/Jahweh as depicted in those books is a cunt
messa4 wow
messa4 ok im back to my channel ridol
messa4 rindolf:
messa4 marzipig: no comment man. kinda uncool
rindolf messa4: ok.
rindolf messa4: hi.
marzipig messa4: it's true though, genocidal, sadistic
messa4 have some repsect for fuk sake
messa4 even if u dont like it
Skunky no
binders in other words, human
marzipig No
messa4 dont call it "cunt"
rindolf messa4: BTW, there's this episode of Futurama where in the future Star Trek becomes a religion.
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binders he said "as depicted"
I-Love-Boobies Nothing is above criticism. This is the only way to discard bad habits.
marzipig If it's a misrepresenation, then I feel bad for the entity(but it should release a sequel)
I-Love-Boobies :)
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marzipig One way in which I am superior to Jahweh: I don't think people who call me a cunt deserve eternal torture
messa4 i fuckin dont get this hatered
rindolf messa4: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=futurama+%22no+fan+has+gone+before%22&oq=futurama+%22no+fan+has+gone+before%22&gs_l=youtube.3...18478.19277.0.19649.
marzipig messa4: you are aware that genocide is frowned upon?
messa4 i dont like catholic church for example. i could talk about their bad stuff for days. but for god sake - i have some respect for their belief
messa4 it doesnt matter
messa4 i ahte "liberal" people who are acting like nazis
messa4 without respect
messa4 :(
marzipig Good morning Mr Godwin
binders "like nazis" isn't that a bit of an exaggeration?
messa4 maybe. im sorry
messa4 but u know what i mean
marzipig No, I don't
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marzipig In fact I strongly suspect you don't /have/ a point
I-Love-Boobies messa4: The source of our dislike is quite simple: As long as there is no evidence for a belief, it merely paves the way for certain actions. In the case of all religions I know of, many of these actions are wicked.
marzipig I-Love-Boobies: my view is more nuanced
I-Love-Boobies So why does a detrimental belief for which there is no evidence demand respect?
I-Love-Boobies marienz: Oh?
messa4 I-Love-Boobies: for example LAW
messa4 even secular law
messa4 like in UK
binders law can be reformed
I-Love-Boobies ^
binders scripture is eternal
I-Love-Boobies ^
rindolf messa4: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=larry-wall-all-truth-is-gods-truh - see this.
binders and we make the law
marzipig I-Love-Boobies: Oh, actually, you probably hold the same view as me, dogmatism is the problem
binders it's not imposed on us by some cruel superpower who kills on a whim
messa4 even if u dont give a fuck about religion law. In most countries SECULAR law forbids u to say things like "this religion is cunt". u need to be respectful even if u dont belive in it
marzipig It's not just "religion" it's holding on to any view regardless of whether it's counterfactual
marzipig messa4: here we still have some freedom of speech, and I never said Judaism was a cunt
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messa4 marzipig: u are in USA i belive?
I-Love-Boobies messa4: A law which is also detrimental and should be changed.
marzipig messa4: you believe wrong, I'm in England
rindolf messa4: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=the-cia-vs-the-kgb-vs-the-shin-bet - you may also enjoy this. Israeli humour.
Maxdamantus 22:17:28 < messa4> i dont like catholic church for example. i could talk about their bad stuff for days. but for god sake - i have some respect for their belief
Maxdamantus messa4: I think the Catholic church used to execute people like you.
marzipig Maxdamantus: you seriously think they stopped?
marzipig Pretty good at not letting things get out that church
messa4 marzipig: ARE YOU INSNANE?! if u will say "religion xyz is cunt" in any british town - u will be prosecuted. no doubt
marzipig messa4: no, and I didn't say that
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I-Love-Boobies Shame on the UK then.
rindolf Maxdamantus: the Roman Catholic Church of today is very different from that when the press was invented.
marzipig I-Love-Boobies: shame on the UK for other reasons, not that one(yet)
messa4 marzipig: so who said that? sorry
messa4 anyway nvm
marzipig messa4: I said that Jahweh as depicted in the Torah/Bible/Qur'an comes accross as a cunt
I-Love-Boobies Yes, that. Nothing should be above the freedom of expression and critique.
rindolf Maxdamantus: for example, Madonna was welcomed to visit many churches, while back in 1400 she would have been burned on stake.
binders messa4, nobody said the religion was a cunt (which makes no sense anyway) refer back to what marzipig actually said
marzipig rindolf: "burned at the stake"
messa4 marzipig: nvm. its dissrespectful anyway
marzipig Your point is right though
marzipig Right, I have no respect for that particular fictional entity
messa4 for me its end of topic. i hate disrespect. doesnt care if u are jew or muslim or whatever
Maxdamantus messa4: you should have some respect for disrespect.
marzipig I honestly think I'm showing you more respect than y oure shoing me
marzipig *you're
I-Love-Boobies messa4: Disrespectful? But we should be critical of such things... Some people think blacks are lesser people. Should I show respect just because it is a belief?
marzipig At least I'm not shouting at you to shut up
rindolf marzipig: thanks! I'll try to keep it in mind.
rindolf Maxdamantus: <Maxdamantus> messa4: you should have some respect for disrespect.- hah! That's great.
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