Hash | GNU shouldn't move to a racist network. |
Hash | My two cents. |
Hash | But you guys do whatever you want. I won't be going on a racist network run by anti Asians and anti Indians. |
rindolf | Hash: hi |
rindolf | Hash: i think racism is a right at some level: https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/humanity/indiv-nodes/the-gate.xhtml |
AliciaC | what does Libera suddenly do that's racist? |
rindolf | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGXx56WqqJw - .fr vs England |
rindolf | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaus_Copernicus#Nationality - Poland vs .de |
sobukus | Hash: Nice attempt. I do not know all details about this, but on the surface, objecting to something someone with a certain racial (in the US-American sense) background does, or even not linking that person at all, does not imply racism. |
sobukus | s:linking:liking: |
sobukus | A bit more evidence might be useful with such a claim. |
CrystalMath | is this about Andrew Lee? |
CrystalMath | http://techrights.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/lee-side.pdf |
Dyedefra | hi hackers |
AliciaC | I'm not convinced it's about anything, just baseless claims |
AliciaC | hi Dyedefra |
rindolf | AliciaC: CrystalMath : i side on the existing *.freenode.net takeover management. the libra.chat people drove freenode.net down with their authoritarianism |
CrystalMath | rindolf: absolutely! hear hear! |
CrystalMath | rindolf: we're in full agreement :) |
rindolf | and - you can quote me on that |
rindolf | CrystalMath: hi, sup? |
CrystalMath | hi! |
AliciaC | "drove freenode.net down"? it's up though |
rindolf | AliciaC: i mean - 'made it less popular' |
rindolf | CrystalMath: « |
rindolf | «When people agree with me I always feel I must be wrong. » Oscar Wilde . |
rindolf | CrystalMath: but this time i am happy you agree |
CrystalMath | i'm happy too |
CrystalMath | i'm 100% with Andrew Lee and the new management, if that wasn't obvious from my messages everywhere yesterday |
AliciaC | I don't have much of an opinion about Andrew Lee. Libera is kind of just "same old Freenode", which I know to be good |
Dyedefra | hi rindolf , CrystalMath , AliciaC |
CrystalMath | AliciaC: libera is the same old freenode which i know to be bad, and which i wanted to leave; and now's my chance |
CrystalMath | i just won't go there |
CrystalMath | the new freenode however is more like rizon, which is amazing |
rindolf | Dyedefra: hi, what are the good news? |
AliciaC | that's fair |
CrystalMath | AliciaC: also those people signed the anti-RMS letter |
AliciaC | I don't know rizon or how it differs from old Freenode |
AliciaC | oh :/ |
Dyedefra | rindolf: must we trust in libera? |
CrystalMath | Dyedefra: i would never trust libera |
Dyedefra | CrystalMath: mmm I agree |
Dyedefra | I'm not sure |
rindolf | Dyedefra: not gonna bother with them for now |
rindolf | CrystalMath: https://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/culture/case-for-commercial-fan-fiction/indiv-nodes/hacking_and_amateur__vs__conformism_and_professional.xhtml |
sobukus | CrystalMath: "those people signed …", you know how many of those? I wonder if there is a clear connection or just an intersection of opinions on RMS and freenode governance in some of them, not necessarily related. |
CrystalMath | sobukus: 5 of them |
CrystalMath | but like, when i look at the libera staff, it's basically just 2 of these and nobody else; and of the people hanging around it's another one of these |
CrystalMath | Aaron Jones is the only one with libera/staff/* |
sobukus | to clarify, you say that 2 of the signers are part of libera staff, among other people? Or that there are no other people? |
sobukus | It's really hard to get an informed opinion when not being really inside the circles. |
CrystalMath | sobukus: 5 of ex-freenode staff are signers; but i only find 2 of these to be libera staff (that can't be right but i can't find any more at all) |
dragestil | Read that pdf, I still don't believe lee's side of the story |
CrystalMath | sobukus: and i mean i can't find more than 2 libera staff members |
dragestil | the way he presents things just reeks of bullshit and selectiveness |
sobukus | I've read the PDF… also the chat logs adriane published (not sure if that's a decent act … same as the private chats Lee published). |
sobukus | It's murky for me. |
rindolf | CrystalMath: i hope freenode becomes popular among people who love their work (neoamateurs/'geeks'): https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/Emma-Watson-applying-for-a-software-dev-job/#reception - ¨I think we would hire Emma Watson based on looks alone. 🙂" — glange on Freenode’s #objectivism. |
dragestil | and he did not address former staff's claim about christel did not clarify the former staff about the deal |
dragestil | ...before resigning |
dragestil | ...so that the former staff did not know what was sold to lee |
sobukus | I guess the most interesting stuff happened before 2021. |
CrystalMath | dragestil: personally, if this is going to be about who i *want* to control freenode; then it's definitely not the old freenode staff |
CrystalMath | there's numerous reasons to stay away from those people, and therefore OFTC and libera |
dragestil | and lee's promise about not taking operational control |
CrystalMath | dragestil: the thing is, the old freenode staff were *not* good people, they were extremely authoritarian |
CrystalMath | and also used other methods to harass users of the network |
CrystalMath | whose political opinions did not align with theirs |
sobukus | Problem here is perhaps that the vast majority of users never had any contact with the staff. |
sobukus | So all we get is hearsay from both (or multiple) sides:-/ |
dragestil | CrystalMath: I don't have anything new to say about your hatred towards former freenode staff |
CrystalMath | yeah, that's why their evils are kept hidden, but kreyren at least is amassing all the proof against them |
CrystalMath | i really should have logged stuff :( |
CrystalMath | i should have prepared a nice package for the day that those people finally lose their power, so that they can be outed as the evil conniving group that they are |
bandali | let's stop with the name calling and talking behind people's back |
river | no |
CrystalMath | bandali: i'm sorry, i'll wait for kreyren to gather the evidence |
CrystalMath | i'm just a little frustrated that this could have been more obvious |
CrystalMath | and i'm concerned about all the people who will leave because we didn't publish the evidence on time :( |
sobukus | Maybe you can help me clear up the sides of the battle (if not who is Right™ right now). I see tomaw is head of OFTC. OTFC and freenode split apart some time ago but also started to cooperate … to the point of tomaw also becoming head of freenode? Are those leaving for libera associated with OFTC, or the remaining freenode in some way? |
rindolf | CrystalMath: i welcome the old freenode staff back per Saladin's ethics: http://shlomifishswiki.branchable.com/Saladin_Style/ |
CrystalMath | rindolf: i wouldn't want them to be staff again, but sure they can join channels as regular users |
CrystalMath | sobukus: OFTC k-lines people who support RMS, so there's that |
CrystalMath | sobukus: but yes OFTC will maybe group with libera, not the new freenode |
CrystalMath | i would recommend avoiding oftc and libera |
CrystalMath | (but my evidence on tomaw is too slim to explain why, there's a bit of a hunch involved) |
sobukus | CrystalMath: So … we got 3 networks that are supposed to foster technical discussion about software projects, and which battle about politics. Two of them seem likely to build an alliance. |
CrystalMath | sobukus: maybe not though |
CrystalMath | i wouldn't call it likely |
CrystalMath | just possible, while the other is impossible |
sobukus | Heh, relatively likely, then;-) |
CrystalMath | i really haven't seen much libera staff there at all, just anti-RMS people like adfj and jose |
CrystalMath | (they are signatories of the letter) |
CrystalMath | and OFTC seems to be tomaw |
sobukus | There's so much unfortunate stuff going on. |
sobukus | People should be more able to disagree in a civilized manner. |
dragestil | https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/libreplanet-se/2021-05/msg00005.html |
dragestil | Would be cool if Swedish digital currency uses gnu taler |
sobukus | Yeah, taler seems nice. |
CrystalMath | i prefer cash |
dragestil | Why, taler is anonymous for prayers |
sobukus | Sure, but as long as you have to go digital (like, bank transfers at all), Taler seemed OK to me. |
dragestil | payers |
CrystalMath | i mean, i will always avoid computers whenever i can |
CrystalMath | my priority is: no software > free software > non-commercial proprietary software |
CrystalMath | and the rest is not used |
sobukus | It should tell you something that when it comes to computer tech / software being in control of things, the people who know more about it tend to be more afraid of it. While normally, you are afraid of things you _don't_ know. |
rindolf | CrystalMath: <CrystalMath> rindolf: i wouldn't want them to be staff again, but sure they can join channels as regular users ==> yes, |
CrystalMath | rindolf: well some of them are still connected to freenode in fact, just not on nearly as many channels as before |
rindolf | we also should not rest on our laurels |
rindolf | CrystalMath: i talked w a girl w a dog in the park about my https://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Terminator/Liberation/ongoing-text.html screenplay. she was friendly, looked great and had an oriental complexion, and her dog ended up liking me too,, |
rindolf | CrystalMath: i want to tweet about the freenode coup |
rindolf | Sat 22 May 17:46:24 IDT 2021 |
CrystalMath | rindolf: hmm? |
rindolf | CrystalMath: BTW, for a while now : free/open/remix→more money: https://twitter.com/shlomif/status/1378421699142635525 "Whether #TaylorSwift gets the rights for her old songs back or not, it wont change the fact that eventho theyre her brainchildren, they belong2 noone&everyone (who can cover, remix them, & listen to them). Neither tay nor her recordlabel will likely go bankrupt soon." |
rindolf | CrystalMath: i went on a walk w my dad and there is a dogs' enclosure |
rindolf | CrystalMath: did you understand? |
CrystalMath | rindolf: hmm? |
CrystalMath | i'm not familiar with the Taylor Swift song ownership thing |
rindolf | CrystalMath: ah, the contract with her old record label ended |
rindolf | CrystalMath: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=taylor+swift+contract&atb=v140-1&ia=web |
CrystalMath | rindolf: christel is also not bad, she was actually keeping the staff somewhat moderate; after she quit they were unhinged |
CrystalMath | err not rindolf, river ^ |
rindolf | CrystalMath: ah |
CrystalMath | honestly, with libera you're not getting the old freenode, because it's missing christel, who was harassed and ousted this march |
CrystalMath | now, if she created a new network, that would be different |
CrystalMath | there was only one hostile takeover at freenode, and it happened this march, not now |
rbraun_ | CrystalMath: it's also missing tomaw / oftc overlap though, so |
CrystalMath | rbraun_: but it has everyone else |
rbraun_ | and most of them are okay, I don't know |
CrystalMath | also according to jess tomaw should be there... |
CrystalMath | i must have not done the command correctly |