Subject: RE: [hackers-il] Thoughts about Whether to Become Independant

From: "Chen Shapira" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 12:43:25 +0300

I've been thinking about becoming independent as well.
I add some of my thoughts below.

> -----Original Message-----
> 1. I'll have to do my own accounting, taxes, etc.
> -------------------------------------------------

Not necessarily. One can work with an accountant. It is even
recommended, since I'm not sure if GnuCash covers the Israeli tax laws. 

> 2. I can do what I choose
> -------------------------
To some extent, this is true. However, you may have to take projects you
prefer not to simply because you need the money, want to get a foot in
the door with a specific client, etc.

A friend of mine is an independent interior designer and she had to be
back at work few days after giving birth, simply because her clients
needed her and she didn't want to risk them turning to someone else.
This is something employees don't worry about.

> 3. I would need good contacts and publicity
> -------------------------------------------

I think this is the most difficult point.
It is not enough to be known, you need to be liked as well. People will
hire you only if they think that they'll enjoy working with you. I don't
know of anyone who hired a consultant they didn't like. In fact, the
consultants I know are the nicest people ever.

Forgive me for being frank, but you have a knack for pissing people off.
I think you can name more than one person who will never ever hire you.
This is not the right direction.
 
> 4. More time to do the things I like:
> -------------------------------------
Not sure about this one. Independents tend to be more busy than
employees because in addition to their main job duties, they also need
to do marketing, chase clients and force them to pay, etc.
 
> 5. I can see the world:
> -----------------------
Anything prevents you from going to conferences right now?
The only plus side is that the travel expenses will be tax-deductible.

I think you can make a rather good consultant if you can only improve
two things:
1. People skills. Actively try to be very nice and accommodating. You
tend to annoy many people, and those you annoyed will not hire you.
Don't fool yourself - No matter how good you are, people will not hire
you unless they will enjoy working with you.

2. If you want to train people, you'll need to improve your public
speaking skills. I saw you are already working on this.

Thanks,
Chen

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From: Gadi Evron <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 05:33:47 -0500 (CDT)

> recommended, since I'm not sure if GnuCash covers the Israeli tax laws. 

Yes, but the Israeli Tax Authority would never ever forget about you.

> Yahoo! Groups Links

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From: "Shlomo Dubrowin" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:09:35 +0300

Regarding the Israeli Tax Authority:

My wife has her own business and is therefore independent.  The Israeli Tax
Authority will only accept computerized information from specific expensive,
non-open source, non-linux based applications.  Otherwise you have to keep a
paper, handwritten ledger.  My wife keeps her books in a spreadsheet and
then copies it into the ledger once a month.  Then she can send her reports
or copies or whatever to her accountant.  Also important in Israel are the
receipt books.  As far as I understand, every transaction needs to be
written in the receipt book so the customer gets a receipt.  This is my
understanding, the business is not mine, I just get to offer advice when
requested. ;-)  Hope this helps you guys.

  Shlomo

On 7/18/06, Gadi Evron <[email-masked]> wrote:
> > __________________________________________________________
> > __________________________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>  
>

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  ,-~~-.___.    ._.
/ |  '     \   | |"""""""""|           Shlomo Dubrowin
(  )         0  | |         |             (Sheldon)
\_/-, ,----'   | |         |
    ====        !_!--v---v--"
    /  \-'~;      |""""""""|            [email-masked]
   /  __/~| ._-""||        |          http://www.dubrowin.org
=(  _____|_|____||________|
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From: Ori Idan <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 08:32:44 +0300

Just wanted to add my own thoughts as an independent for more then 10 years.

1. Doing accounting etc.
It is better to hire an accountant. I write my own invoices (using
drorit, a free software I wrote) and sending all of them
once a month to my accountant who will do the actual reports to the tax
authorities, this is not such a big deal.

2. I can do what I choose
This is not as simple as it seems, you must do many things you probably
don't like such as marketing. Plus you may have to do some boring jobs
requested by your customers.

3. Good  contacts and publicity
This is the most important thing. you must do marketing and sales for
yourself which might not be an easy task, this is a proffesion by it's own.

4. More time to do the things I like
This is sometimes true. This is the main reason I work as an independent
consultant so I don't have to work long hours each day.

-- 
Ori Idan

Chen Shapira wrote:
> <http://www.messagelabs.com/email>

---

From: Micha Feigin <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 22:31:25 +0300

On Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:09:35 +0300

> requested. ;-)  Hope this helps you guys.

You need to give a receipt for all transactions, but I heard (you should make
sure though) that you are allowed to issue receipts using excel and such, you
don't need personalized receipts. You do need to be able to show records
though. There are also generic paper receipts you can buy.

AFAIK if you are not using a recognized accounting program you need to get an
accountant to sign off on you books.

---

From: Ori Idan <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 09:29:17 +0300

I think this is Off topic but I will answer anyway.
You may not issue a receipt or invoice using a spreadsheet or an editor
since with an editor you can change the number of the receipt.
The most important requirement is that you can not easily change the
receipt number.

As for signing the books you are right if you don't use an authorized
software you may not issue reports based on this software.

-- 
Ori Idan

Micha Feigin wrote:
> "Shlomo Dubrowin" <[email-masked] <mailto:dubrowin%40gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> > On 7/18/06, Gadi Evron <[email-masked] <mailto:ge%40linuxbox.org>>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > For more information please visit
> http://www.messagelabs.com/email <http://www.messagelabs.com/email>

---

From: guy keren <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 16:26:59 +0300

actually, the law says that your software must ensure you'll never have
two receipts with the same number.

--guy

---

From: Eli Billauer <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 00:46:40 +0200

Hello,

Since this is becoming a thread in itself, allow me, as a freelancer for 
something like six years, tell me what it means in terms of formalities.

As for issuing invoices and receipts: Forget about software. You go to 
Office Depot, pay some 200 NIS and get your personalized invoice and 
receipt books (preferably separate), and that's the end of story. When 
working with hitec companies, there are few invoices to issue, so there 
is zero reason to do anything else than what the tax authorities are 
best acquainted with.

As for the routine: Once a month (for some it's once in two months) you 
go to the post office and pay taxes according to a percentage of your 
total invoice sums for that period. It's very simple math, but it's 
important not to forget to do this in time.

The second piece of routine is to make an annual report, which, well, is 
done once a year. I let my accountant do it for me. It should cost 
something like 2000-3000 NIS per year, but in many cases it pays off, 
not to mention that you have someone to call up during the year to ask 
if there is something special you should do when buying a new cellphone 
(don't ask me, I forgot). And you would also like to have someone to ask 
why Bituach Leumi has suddenly decided that you owe them 30,000 NIS. And 
several other things that an accountant should teach you.

Aside from that, ladies and gentlemen, the burden depends on how much 
you want to save a shekel here or there by making your expenses 
recognized. And how much you want your money in the pocket NOW (as 
opposed to a tax refund a year later).

Well, not quite: You become responsible for your own pension fund, your 
desk, your computer, your everything. But that's a different story.

But let me emphasize it again: Do not even think about using your 
computer for issuing invoices and receipts. Unless you intend to open a 
supermarket.

     Eli

-- 
Web: http://www.billauer.co.il

---

From: Shlomi Fish <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:28:21 +0300

> recommended, since I'm not sure if GnuCash covers the Israeli tax laws.

Assuming I do become a freelancer, I'll need an accountant, that's given. 
However, I'll still need to be responsible for such things.

> This is something employees don't worry about.

Hmmm... you may be right. 

> This is not the right direction.

I think I'm quite friendly in real life, and only on the Internet I tend to 
become annoying. However:

1. I know many other people who are very pleasant in real-life and on the 
Internet are trollish.

2. Some of the freelancers I know, while being nice and all, also sometimes 
got angry or behaved in a non-friendly or tactless manner. Maybe it was just 
to me due to my many faults, but it's still a fact.

They still survived.

3. I believe that if a person is honest, loves what he is doing and is a 
professional, then he'll be able to overcome whatever residue he gets due to 
his Net reputation.

4. I'm working on it. :-) It may not come natural to me, but I still think I'm 
making a lot of progress.

> to do marketing, chase clients and force them to pay, etc.

I see.

> The only plus side is that the travel expenses will be tax-deductible.

I don't know. I need to ask permission from my workplace, etc. 

> speaking skills. I saw you are already working on this.

Yes.

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish      [email-masked]
Homepage:        http://www.shlomifish.org/

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