Subject: GUI Development in Agile Languages

From: Shlomi Fish <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 13:34:43 +0200

There's an interesting discussion in the Joel on Software forum:

http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.66132.25

While it started from a relatively clueless post about the problems of IBM 
adopting Linux (which was also Slashdotted), it got diverted into a 
discussion on GUI design in agile languages (Perl, Python, etc.), vs. 
designing it in RAD tools such as Delphi. Some quotes:

<<<
RAD tools traditionally contain a programming language and a way to easily 
create dialogs, forms, etc out of controls.
 
 I program in Visual C++, Delphi and Python.
 
 Delphi is excellent as a RAD tool. It's very productive, and this is why my 
company standardised on it.
 
 Python allows you to code thge "guts" of the application faster than Delphi. 
However, all the gains are lost when you start developing the user interface 
using Python.
 
 No matter what Python GUI library you use, Delphi is still an order of 
magnitude faster.
 
 So all the coding time gains of Python are lost because creating the user 
interface is VERY SLOW compared to a true RAD tool such as Delphi.
 
 There is a RAD tool for Python called BOA Constructor. It's good, but crashes 
too often for my taste. We can't standardise on a dev tool that is in alpha 
stage or in early beta stages. 

<<<
Which is a great pity - there seems to be a tradeoff to be made between the 
environment you create the UI in, and the language you write the rest of the 
code in.
 
 Almost anything is faster and easier to write in Python than in, say, VB or 
C# ... but then you lose all that time again writing wxPython (or worse) by 
hand. The same goes for user interfaces in Perl or other high-level 
languages.
 
 It seems to be part of a general ignorance of (or at least disregard for) 
user interfaces among the OSS community, and I can't help but feel that it's 
a big barrier to OSS software adoption in general.

It's been a while since I did a serious GUI design. When I did it was using 
Borland C++ or Visual C++, not Delphi. 

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish      [email-masked]
Homepage:        http://www.shlomifish.org/

Knuth is not God! It took him two days to build the Roman Empire.

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2005 07:11:21 -0000

First of all Borland C++ Builder (not the regular Borland C++), is
written almost complitly in delphi :) You can also uses delphi code
inside... 

Second, the Delphi IDE of 2005 is much better then any other IDE that
I have ever worked with (please don't mention Eclipse).

I myself worked with Borland C++ Builder, Delphi (almost all it's
versions), VB and few other langauges. The fastest way I was able to
make GUI things where in Delphi and C++ Builder. VB requiers many
coding connection to components, while in Delphi Object Inspector I
can do the same things with two mouse clicks (usualy because it
requiers double clicks ;)), So I must say that IMHO the person there
is
currect (alto I haven't read the entier descution, only what Shlomi
gave here).

Ido

--- In [email-masked], Shlomi Fish <shlomif@i...> wrote:
> Shlomi Fish      shlomif@i...