Subject: Our Shiny New Wiki!

From: Shlomi Fish <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 08:03:44 +0300

Hi all!

I set up a Wiki for Hackers-IL:

http://shlomif.il.eu.org/Hackers-IL/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page

It is powered by MediaWiki. It took me exactly 5 minutes to set it up (yes, 
it's that easy). Note that the domain is temporary. ArikB, can you please 
point "www.hackers.org.il" to the IP address of eskimo.iglu.org.il? Once he 
does, we can have it at:

http://www.hackers.org.il/mediawiki/

(I'm reserving the top-level directory for something else besides MediaWiki 
should we want to).

In any case, feel free to fill the wiki with new content (there are still some 
missing internal links), just don't link to it further, until it is in its 
new address, because like I said the URL is only temporary.

Have fun!

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish
-- 

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish      [email-masked]
Homepage:        http://shlomif.il.eu.org/

Knuth is not God! It took him two days to build the Roman Empire.

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From: Muli Ben-Yehuda <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:53:46 +0300

> point "www.hackers.org.il" to the IP address of eskimo.iglu.org.il? Once he 

Shlomi, whose computer is eskimo?

Cheers, 
Muli
-- 
Muli Ben-Yehuda
http://www.mulix.org | http://mulix.livejournal.com/

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From: Shlomi Fish <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 10:26:56 +0300

On Thursday 12 August 2004 09:53, Muli Ben-Yehuda wrote:
> > It is powered by MediaWiki. It took me exactly 5 minutes to set it up
> > (yes, it's that easy). Note that the domain is temporary. ArikB, can you
> > please point "www.hackers.org.il" to the IP address of
> > eskimo.iglu.org.il? Once he does, we can have it at:
>

eskimo.iglu.org.il is the new name of {www.,ftp.,}iglu.org.il.

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish

--

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From: Muli Ben-Yehuda <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:21:16 +0300

> eskimo.iglu.org.il is the new name of {www.,ftp.,}iglu.org.il.

Which means it's Hamakor's. I am entirely not convinced that setting
up a wiki for hackers-il is an appropriate user for it. Convince me? 

Cheers, 
Muli

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From: Shlomi Fish <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 12:18:53 +0300

> up a wiki for hackers-il is an appropriate user for it. Convince me?

Fair enough. For all ye skeptics here is the roundup of reasons:

1. Technical reason - there shouldn't be a problem relocating the wiki at any 
point in time. This can be considered a temporary location. If anyone can 
offer alternative hosting (with PHP 4.x and MySQL) we can gladly take it 
assuming the iglu.org.il hosting will be found inappropriate.

2. Hackers-IL discusses or promotes many of the ideals that are held by 
Hamakor. We are almost all Linux/FOSS enthusiasts, and all see them as 
important. We also discuss freedom of expression and safety from malevolent 
patents/copyrights, which I believe is also something that Hamakor is 
responsible for.

3. The Wiki will convey much of the same opinions of its members, and will 
serve as an additional advocatical and pedagogical resource.

4. Alon Altman (a Hamakor board member) said and I quote:

<<<
Beak (Ha'makor's server) has a mailing list software installed. I suggest
you contact Ha'makor's board for hosting of the list, which is clearly in
the scope of the NPO's activities.

I think he or someone else who is a Hamakor official had a more relevant 
message with a reference to Hamakor's constitution. As a member of the 
comptrollers comitee you can naturally claim this decision is wrong.

5. I can explain that I decided that it was a good idea to first set up a wiki 
and fill it with some basic content, instead of just asking for permission 
beforehand or bringing it here on Hackers-IL ("who can give me a MediaWiki 
hosting?"). It's like what ESR says that even Bazaar style projects need to 
start with some intensive work of a few people creating a _working_ 
implementation for what the future project would be. I can tell from 
experience that he is right.

Right now, there's a rudimentary Wiki, that Omer Zak and I filled[1] and which 
is good enough to serve as a Hackers-IL wiki even in this infant condition. 
So people can understand that it is a Good Thing, and that's it is desirable. 
Where it will be hosted exactly, is secondary to the fact that it is there.

6. Most of the Wiki's text will be released under a free content license. At 
the moment, it says GNU FDL at the bottom. (it's something I need to fix). 
[2] So the question is whether Hamakor is exclusively on software, and even 
if it is, whether documentation/advocacy material for software is also not 
part of it.

------------

Are you convinced?

Cheers, and happy WikiWiki'ing,

	Shlomi Fish

[1] -  
http://shlomif.il.eu.org/Hackers-IL/mediawiki/index.php/Special:Recentchanges

[2] -
I suggest we discuss it here. My favourite is the Creative Commons Attribution 
only license. It may be a little too unrestrictive (i.e: not too GPL-like) 
for some. What would you prefer?

--

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From: Shlomi Fish <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 18:22:25 +0300

On Thursday 12 August 2004 12:18, Shlomi Fish wrote:
> [2] -
> I suggest we discuss it here. My favourite is the Creative Commons
> Attribution only license. It may be a little too unrestrictive (i.e: not
> too GPL-like) for some. What would you prefer?

Replying to myself. I am bringing this topic here. What do you wish to be the 
default license of the Wiki's text? You can choose from:

1. The Creative Commons Licenses:

http://creativecommons.org/

(some of them not really free as in speech)

2. GNU FDL - known to have some legal problems, not acceptable in Debian. 
(<sigh />)

3. Open Publication License - don't know too much about it.

4. A software license. (GPL/LGPL/Artistic/MIT X11). I'm not sure if they make 
too much sense for plaintext, but they could be used.

Note that this is just the default license. An author can specify at the top 
or the bottom that he uses a different one.

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish

--

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From: Alon Altman <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 19:55:25 +0300 (IDT)

> > too GPL-like) for some. What would you prefer?

I vote for the BY-SA (Attribution Share Alike) creative commons license.
( http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/ ). It is a free (as in
speech) license, but still leaves control with the author. Also, it is
compatible with the attribution only license that Shlomi wanted, so he could
use it if he pleases.

If anyone here prefers the BY-NC-SA license, it could be used as well, but I
think the NC limit should not be imposed.

  Alon

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From: Orna Agmon <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:47:25 +0300 (IDT)

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004, Alon Altman wrote:

> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 19:55:25 +0300 (IDT)
> From: Alon Altman <[email-masked]>
> Reply-To: [email-masked]
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: Default License for the Wiki [was Re: [hackers-il] Our Shiny
>     New Wiki!]
>

I vote for creative commons BY-SA as well.
Orna.
--
Orna Agmon http://vipe.stud.technion.ac.il/~ladypine/
ICQ: 348759096

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From: Tal Rotbart <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 11:59:51 +0300

Same here.

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:47:25 +0300 (IDT), Orna Agmon
<[email-masked]> wrote:
> Yahoo! Groups Links

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