Subject: English Speakers in Israel According to the Wikipedia

From: Shlomi Fish <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:51:12 +0300

Hi all!

According to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population

Israel has a total of 100,000 English speakers. That makes little sense to me 
as:

1. Israeli pupils receive at least 8 years of English education before 
university.

2. Most Israelis I know (or heard of) have a working knowledge of English. 
Even cab drivers and kiosk salesmen tend to have usable English.

3. Israel is famous for the good knowledge of English of its inhabitants.

4. There are more University graduates who have acquired English in their 
studies than that.

----------

Looking at the chart it seems this number is equal to the number of *native* 
English speakers and there is no number for speakers as an additional 
language. So this is misleading.

Does anyone have any idea about how to correct this?

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish

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Shlomi Fish       http://www.shlomifish.org/
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From: "Ori Idan" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:55:11 +0300

The question is how do we define English speaker.
If English speaker is defined as someone whose main language is English,
maybe Wikipedia is right, although I also find it strange that the number is
so low.

-- 
Ori Idan

On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Shlomi Fish <[email-masked]> wrote:

> ----------------------------------------------------------

-- 
ספרים וסיפורים שכתבתי: http://www.thestories.org

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From: Shlomi Fish <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 18:51:55 +0300

On Monday 15 September 2008, Ori Idan wrote:
> maybe Wikipedia is right, although I also find it strange that the number
> is so low.

No, it's not. Reading from the first paragraph:

{{{{{{{
This is a list of countries of the world sorted by the total English-speaking 
population in that country. This includes both native speakers and second 
language speakers of English. Statistics on second language speakers are 
usually imprecise, in part because there is no widely agreed definition of 
second language speakers, so these figures should be treated with caution.
}}}}}}}

And the table has several columns:

* Total English Speakers

* As First Language 

* As an Additional Language

So it doesn't matter what is the language you use the most everyday, as long 
as you know English - you're counted in. So Wikipedia is wrong in the figures 
for Israel.

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish

> > 2. Most Israelis I know (or heard of) have a working knowledge of
> > English. Even cab drivers and kiosk salesmen tend to have usable English.
> >

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish       http://www.shlomifish.org/
My Aphorisms - http://www.shlomifish.org/humour.html

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From: "Ori Idan" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2008 19:11:25 +0300

It really seems to be wrong.
The question is can we find a figure that seems more logical so we can edit
it?

-- 
Ori Idan

On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 6:51 PM, Shlomi Fish <[email-masked]> wrote:

> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

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From: "Nadav Har'El" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 09:37:46 +0300

On Mon, Sep 15, 2008, Shlomi Fish wrote about "[hackers-il] English Speakers in Israel According to the Wikipedia":
>..

The heading paragraph clearly says that this number should "include both
native speakers and second language speakers of English.". So the figure
"100,000" for Israel is simply wrong, and needs to be fixed: Israel needs
to have its "As an additional language" figure filled in, and then this figure
needs to be added to the "Total English Speakers" figure.

So, be bold, look for a source, and update this page!

Of course, there's always the question of what does being a "speaker of
English" (even as second language) mean. There's a huge variance in the
Israeli public, from people with almost native English, to people who can
even translate "aftershave" to English ;-) Even if all of them studied 8
years of English at school.

-- 
Nadav Har'El                        |        Monday, Sep 22 2008, 22 Elul 5768
[email-masked]             |-----------------------------------------
Phone +972-523-790466, ICQ 13349191 |Cat rule #2: Bite the hand that won't
http://nadav.harel.org.il           |feed you fast enough.