Subject: RE: [hackers-il] quantum computers - summary [rather long]

From: "Arik Baratz" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 10:03:06 -0000

>  Hi There,
>     I want to have full understanding on how to
>hack.
>E.G CREDIT CARD, SITES, PASSWORD AND BANK.
>   Thaat was my main purpose of joining you site and i
>want to tell you that someone Hack my password and
>deleated all my confidential message even he even
>clear off my credit card information.If there is any
>way you can use to help me to get another card and
>also to strike back,i will be very glad to read from
>you.
>Thanks
>Richard oluseyi

Sure, Richard, we'll help!

Please tell us the name of your email server, your account and your password, so we can all investigate and see how the hacker got in.

There's another expert that can help you. no one knows his real name, and he goes bu the alias of 'postmaster'. How to reach him, you ask? Well, since postmaster is an 31337 l-l4XOR he has hacked every ISP in the world, and he has an account on every one of them. So all you have to do is send your request to postmaster@yourisp, where yourisp is your ISP domain name - like [email-masked] or [email-masked].

Don't forget to send us your passwords!

-- Arik

---

From: Omer Zak <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 14:53:26 +0300 (EET DST)

This reply was prompted more by Nadav's Harel than by Arik's creative
response.

It is even more obvious that lame cracers won't bother to internalize
Nadav's reminder of netiquette.

I suggest that we start (or rather, continue) a mini-project, for crafting
the most misleading and most creative response to lame crackers' request
for information (IIRC, this is already 2nd or 3rd time a lame cracker
stopped by Hackers-IL).

Maybe the suggestion to send to postmaster@yourisp is too obvious.  How
about trying something more convoluted and more misleading, which requires
a real hacker (in the positive sense of word) to understand, and which
will surely plant a misguided cracker wannabe in the trouble which he
deserves?
                                             --- Omer
WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html

On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Arik Baratz wrote:

> Please tell us the name of your email server, your account and your
> password, so we can all investigate and see how the hacker got in.
>
> There's another expert that can help you. no one knows his real name,
> and he goes bu the alias of 'postmaster'. How to reach him, you ask?
> Well, since postmaster is an 31337 l-l4XOR he has hacked every ISP in
> the world, and he has an account on every one of them. So all you have
> to do is send your request to postmaster@yourisp, where yourisp is
> your ISP domain name - like [email-masked] or
> [email-masked].
>

---

From: Nimster <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 15:36:33 +0200

----- Original Message -----
From: "Omer Zak" <[email-masked]>
To: "Hackers-IL" <[email-masked]>
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 1:53 PM
Subject: Creative responses to misguided lame crackers (was: RE:
[hackers-il] quantum computers...)

> Nadav's reminder of netiquette.

Don't be that certain. Many people are simply not aware of all the nooks and
crannies of the netiquette, and contrary to popular belief - not all of it
is written somewhere. Only lately, for example, Shlomi brought to my
attention the double new-line after paragraphs (i.e empty line seperating
them). Despite reading hundreds of messages and posts using this, I didn't
notice it, and didn't use it in my own writing.

> for information (IIRC, this is already 2nd or 3rd time a lame cracker

This is really nasty, Omer. Do you remember the first time you came to the
Bakum, and simply didn't know what to do? How would you feel if instead of
helping you, the officer at the counter would tell you, say, to leave your
bag, go to the bathroom, undress and come out? (Giving lame excuses why it
is so: You need to wear your uniform, or something like that). Sure, there
are posters all around saying what you need to do- but with all this mess,
one is bound to get lost and confused. Why be mean and help him do that?

I remember a post I wrote to slashdot 2 and a half years ago, when I first
joined it (Yes, I'm a late bloomer, I know). I saw a rant (by CmdrTaco, but
didn't bother checking who he was), and believing that was the spirit of the
site, quickly composed my own rant (which had *something* to do with
computers, but was a personal rant nonetheless) and submitted it as news. It
took me less than a month to realize how wrong I was thinking that was the
point of slashdot, and how stupid it was of me to bog down the moderators
with it, something I could've saved by a mere glimpse at earlier news. But I
shudder at the thought of someone taking your advice, and instead of
ignoring my post (or submitting a personal pointer to the FAQ), posting it
and wrapping it with a message dripping sarcasm about the new idiotic lamer
who joined the /. community.

I have dozens of those anecdotes: Querying perlmonks about parrot when it
was still a fool's day joke obvious to everyone but me, turning into the
wrong lane (opposite direction) when I was just studying how to drive, and
many many more. I'm sure you do as well. The world around us is confusing,
especially when we're in a new position and/or anxious about something.

No, Omer. We were all newbies, and at least some of us were young,
unresourceful and inexperienced enough to write horribly (a practice still
followed on Gnubies-il), not notice netiquette, FAQs or history-lists, and
confuse the terms 'hacker' and 'cracker'.

Personally, I only gained insight after the members of the Perlmonks and
Roleplay.org.il communities treated me nice enough, ignoring my newbie
mistakes and pushing me in the right direction. Many of the people who'd
bother joining the list and posting a message really *do* want to
contribute, fit in, or learn. They're simply doing it wrong.

It might be fun for you to think up this amazing misleading tip, something
like the "press Alt+F4 for porn" days of *lamers* in mIRC (or Ctrl+X in
BlueWave) - and if it truely does amuse you, write a site about it, or make
a new thread containing those. But spare them from the misusers. it takes
much less energy to do what Nadav did, even sending a saved, templatized
response to these erring members. I would've myself, but I didn't even see
the original message.

---

From: Oleg Goldshmidt <[email-masked]>
Date: 11 Apr 2002 15:50:33 +0300

Nimster <[email-masked]> writes:

> Many people are simply not aware of all the nooks and crannies of
> the netiquette, and contrary to popular belief - not all of it is
> written somewhere.

RFC1855 will take you most of the way, though. Including Nadav's
comment earlier in this thread.

-- 
Oleg Goldshmidt | [email-masked] 
[Lisp] is the only computer language that is beautiful. 
                      - Neal Stephenson

---

From: "Nadav Har'El" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 16:23:39 +0300

> > This reply was prompted more by Nadav's Harel than by Arik's creative

Omer, my idea was to minimize the amount of disruption on our list. If
some lamer/newbie/scriptkiddie read your reply, he or she might actually
think you mean what you say (right, it sounds a bit weird, but doesn't all
new computer stuff sound weird?), try it out, and then write here again
to report how your advice did not work :) Is that what you want?

My reply was concise, to the point, and will make sure that cracker wanabee
will stay off our list (if he/she doesn't change his/her interests).

> crannies of the netiquette, and contrary to popular belief - not all of it

I hate to be the one championing netiquette on this list, because those who
know me in real life know that I'm not the kind of guy who cares about
"nimusim", like in what hand you hold the fork, what clothes you should
wear to this&that event, and so on.

But I'm disturbed when people don't show on mailing lists the basic courtesy
to other people that they'd show in real life. I mean, you don't enter a
classroom at the end of a lecture, and ask a question - irrelevant to the
topic of the lecture - without having heard this lecture. You don't go
to a conference about some issue and keep bothering people with questions
on a completely unrelated topic. Why is it not obvious that the same kind
of courtesy to other people's feelings, time and resources should also be
shown in electronic forums?

> notice it, and didn't use it in my own writing.

I'll use this forum to make a friendly technical suggestion to Shlomi too:
please try to delete irrelevant quoted lines when answering other people's
posts. In particular, chop off the end of the message, including the signature
and yahoogroups ad that appeared on the original message.

-- 
Nadav Har'El                        |     Thursday, Apr 11 2002, 29 Nisan 5762
[email-masked]             |-----------------------------------------
Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |AlGoreithm, n: Repeating a calculation
http://nadav.harel.org.il           |until a prior desired result is produced.