Subject: RE: [hackers-il] Slightly OT: A story I started to write

From: Chen Shapira <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 08:57:45 +0200

> http://techst02.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/

Nice character introduction! I loved that :-)

---

From: Shlomi Fish <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 11:09:42 +0200 (IST)

> Nice character introduction! I loved that :-)

Thanks. But I fear that Word 2000, which I use here converted it into
somethihg that only IE5 can see. Can anybody verify that he sees the
HTML using Konquerer?

In anycase, if somebody has QText or MS-Word 97 can he convert the RTF 
to HTML and send me the converted file. Visual HTML will be better, but
Logical HTML that Konquerer can see will also be good.

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish
 
> 
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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> 
> 
> 
> 

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish        [email-masked] 
Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
Home E-mail:       [email-masked]

The prefix "God Said" has the extraordinary logical property of 
converting any statement that follows it into a true one.

---

From: "Nadav Har'El" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 11:30:23 +0200

> Logical HTML that Konquerer can see will also be good.

Since I suppose the text is not hyperlinked, why don't you convert it to
Postscript (or PDF, if you want)? All of us have postscript viewers (shame
on you if you don't ;)), and with a postscript file there's no question
of Bidi, fonts, or anything like that. I know that for me getting a hardcopy
in Postscript or PDF makes much more sense than getting Word/RT/Qtext or
even HTML.

-- 
Nadav Har'El                        |     Thursday, Dec 7 2000, 10 Kislev 5761
[email-masked]             |-----------------------------------------
Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |A bird in the hand is safer than one
http://nadav.harel.org.il           |overhead.

---

From: Shlomi Fish <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 15:12:34 +0200 (IST)

> in Postscript or PDF makes much more sense than getting Word/RT/Qtext or

If I were able to define a postscript printer here on my Technion
workstation it would have been a good solution. Problem is that I'd have
to do it every time I want to convert the file, because there are many
workstations in the farm.

I can do it when I get home, but until then, either you have to wait or do
it with your Windows' computer.

Sorry for the inconvenience,

	Shlomi Fish

---

From: "Nadav Har'El" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 11:44:11 +0200

> workstations in the farm.

Then once again, stupidity wins...
Why can't a postscript printer be defined on ALL WORKSTATIONS IN THE FARM (of
course, the administrator should do it, not you)? Don't they consider the
possibility of postscript output useful enough? Do EE people *never* output
*anything* in postscript? Don't you have postscript printers anywhere?

I find it very strange...

> it with your Windows' computer.

Assuming I have one :)
The truth is that I did have Windows NT installed on my computer, but a couple
of months ago I had an "installation accident" (I tried to install a Hebrew
version of Office, after I had only the English version and it managed to
ruin various shared-libraries, or whatever), and now my NT installation is
completely useless...

But don't worry - I can still read HTML. I just suggested that Postscript
is a better format because it is a what-you-see-is-what-everyone-else-will-
see-too (WYSIWEWS ?) format.

-- 
Nadav Har'El                        |       Friday, Dec 8 2000, 11 Kislev 5761
[email-masked]             |-----------------------------------------
Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |I'm a peripheral visionary: I see into
http://nadav.harel.org.il           |the future, but mostly off to the sides.

---

From: Shlomi Fish <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 17:29:30 +0200 (IST)

> *anything* in postscript? Don't you have postscript printers anywhere?

Talking with the administrators of the farms is as effective as talking to
a deaf person behind his back (no offence, OmerZ). I'll try and render it
as postscript before I leave my workstation now. If I can't, then it will
have to wait till I get home.

As for EEers using Postscript. I think in the Technion, EEers prefer PDF,
and we rarely see Postscript around here because the other EEers rarely
use UNIX as most of the programs we need on a day to day basis are on
Windows. Some heavy digital circuit simulation programs exist for UNIXes
only, but most of the other programs are present only on Windows or on
Windows too.

I have three UNIX accounts: shlomif@{vipe,t2,lion}. The only one which I
can run X on is lion and it has a 2.5 MB quota. I can run stuff from vipe
through remote X but I'd rather not. And I can't get an account on the CS
farms because I'm not taking any CS courses that justify it, and I am not
a Computer Engineering student.

So, if you are a UNIX-lover above all, then CS is the way to go,
Technionically. But I'm not a UNIX-lover above all, so I can cope with the
present situation.

> see-too (WYSIWEWS ?) format.

I suggest you re-install Windows NT after you copy all the important files
to the Linux partition. And next time, uninstall Eng-Office before you
install Heb-Office (and pray for the best)

Like I said, I will convert it to Postscript at the latest when I get
home, but it won'be until next week. 

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish

---

From: Shlomi Fish <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 19:13:41 +0200 (IST)

Well, I decided to maintain a list of addresses of people who are
interested in daily or even more frequent updates to when the story is
updated. E-mail me if you wish to be added.

For those who missed some of the previous messages - the story in question
is "The Pope Died on Sunday" and its URL is:

http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/humour/Pope/

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish

BTW: There's a more up to date version of the story on the site.

BTW 2: Chen, how is the translation going? Would you recommend that I
start one of my own too?

---

From: Omer Zak <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 19:46:10 +0200 (EET)

Here is a question to the real star programmers among us:

Suppose you are working for a company, which understands the value of star
programmers, and is prepared to hire as many support personnel and buy as
much furniture and equipment as needed, so that you the star programmer
will be able to work in the most efficient way possible.

What would you recommend the company to equip you with?
The idea is that it is very difficult to find, hire and retain star
programmers, so they will be the bottleneck to the organization's
performance.  But there are several other intelligent persons, who just
cannot excel in programming to to various reasons.  But their other skills
could help star programmers save their time.

Partial list of suggestions:
1. Software tester to test for you the brilliant code which you wrote.
2. Technical writer to spare you from the pain of documenting your code
   yourself.
3. Big desk.
4. Big, flat panel display (or, better, two displays).
5. Fast Internet connection.
6. Junior programmer who will perform the boring tasks which you specify.
7. Information specialist, to search literature and the Internet for any
   facts that the programmer needs.

Any other wild ideas?
                                             --- Omer
WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html

---

From: "Nadav Har'El" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 19:58:38 +0200

> only, but most of the other programs are present only on Windows or on

Of course, PDF is ok too! Both PDF and Postscript are "hardcopy" formats,
meaning that they will (or at least, should) look the same anywhere, regardless
of whether the user installed fonts, bidi software, equation editors, or
whatever, on his or her system.

BTW, for your information, (or rather, for your system administrators'
information), ghostscript is available on Windows too :) AND, postscript
printers (I'm having a real hard time to believe you don't have one of
those in EE!) require postscript output from Windows - not PDF... But never
mind ;)

-- 
Nadav Har'El                        |       Friday, Dec 8 2000, 12 Kislev 5761
[email-masked]             |-----------------------------------------
Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |What's the difference between roast beef
http://nadav.harel.org.il           |and pea soup? Anyone can roast beef.

---

From: "Nadav Har'El" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 20:26:35 +0200

> Here is a question to the real star programmers among us:

There's a problem in answering your question... If I answer it, it would imply
that I consider myself a "star programmer", and doing that is a faux-pas (ein
hanachtom meid al isato, you know). So let's start off by saying that I'm
answering as a "Nadav" that igored the first line of your posting :)

> 2. Technical writer to spare you from the pain of documenting your code

Personally, I would consider either of these a PITA (pain-in-the-a**), because
it would mean that I have to explain everything I do to two people, and I
would have to strongly rely on two other people (because botching up either
the testing or the documentation would make users think that what I did sucks).

Yes, I would like for my employer to limit the amount of red-tape (beaurocracy)
I'm required to do, but not by having me explain to someone how he should do
this red-tape for me.

Of course, I'm talking about documentation and testing that occurs during
devlopment. Final user-level documentation and QA can be done by special
people, for all I care, if the people doing that are capable enough that they
can do these things without me having to spend weeks with them explaining
them what they should document or test.

> 4. Big, flat panel display (or, better, two displays).

Yes, a comfortable desk (big enough and in the correct height), shelves,
and stuff like that, are extremely important. And so is a big display (I
have to admit that I am disappointed by the 17" display my current employer
gave me - my previous employer gave me a 21" display).

A flat-panel display isn't important, unless the desk is NOT big enough.

Two displays is an utter waste, of money and of desk-space, and you shouldn't
even consider it, not even if you're working on two different computers (e.g.,
Windows and Unix) - you should use a display/keyboard/mouse switch or
X-Windows or VNC or something, and manage with one display, one keyboard,
and one mouse. I know what I'm talking about - at my previous employer, I
had 6 computers (!) by my desk, but only one display :)

I would also add a soundcard: it can cost as little as 66 shekels (that's
the price of the one I got), and listening to music on the job can be a lot
of fun :)

> 5. Fast Internet connection.

Of course, although probably everyone needs this nowadays, not only "star"
programmers.

> 6. Junior programmer who will perform the boring tasks which you specify.

I can just see the job ad you post for these junior programmers: "come work
for us, and you'll do all the boring task that our stuck-up snob
star-programmers refuse to do" :)

>    facts that the programmer needs.

This is sometimes called a "librarian"... I don't think you really need one
in your company, it's even better if you have access to some big library
(e.g., the Technion's) where you can get books you need at a moment's notice.

Of course, you should also order any book the programmer requests with no
questions asked (and these books should belong to the programmer, not the
company [1]).

[1] My current employer, and my previous employer, are both stuck with the
notion that books you order belong to your employer, and you need to return
them if you quit. This makes certain sense, but it also generates many
problems (do they really need that "TeXbook" I ordered when I was the only
one who used TeX?), and after leaving my previous job book-less I decided
that I cannot stand it any more, and I started buying all the books I want
with my own money. This is costing me a lot of money, but I consider it
worthwhile, and now I have my own copy of many of the books I consider
"great". However, I still expect a more generous employer to buy those books
for me, to use them to help him and what I do with them after I quit is my
own business. Just like I don't return to him the knowledge I gather while
working for him, I should be returning the books I've read.

> Any other wild ideas?

A laptop?
A fast internet connection at home and/or a cellular Internet connection for
the cellphone?
A masseuse? :)

-- 
Nadav Har'El                        |       Friday, Dec 8 2000, 12 Kislev 5761
[email-masked]             |-----------------------------------------
Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |If God is watching us, the least we can
http://nadav.harel.org.il           |do is be entertaining.

---

From: Shlomi Fish <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 21:03:20 +0200 (IST)

>    facts that the programmer needs.

What I would like is the dream software-development tool. Something that
if you declare a new variable it will ask you what you are going to do
with it, and detect if you do something else. Something that will enable
one to write documentation that corresponds to any line in the code and
ask the user what it doesn't understand.

Also, something like that that can decipher other people's code, but
that's usually impossible. Also, a very smart and intelligent lint. Even
tough, I don't usually use lint even for UNIX.

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish 

P.S: only others can judge whether I am a star programmer or not, (you can
find software I wrote on my homepage and I can send you some more), but
basically this is something I'd like as a programmer, whether star or not.

                                              --- Omer

---

From: Omer Zak <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 22:29:23 +0200 (IST)

> answering as a "Nadav" that igored the first line of your posting :)

Perhaps I started the message way it was started because I do consider 
myself to be a star programmer.  :-)

> the testing or the documentation would make users think that what I did sucks).

How about someone who knows to perform code inspections, only can't
originally create the masterpiece?  He would inspect your code, find and
note any problems with it, and also document it.  He would also run the
code and test it.

The drawback is that such people would probably deserve their own star
status (i.e. hard to find and worth a lot as well). So continue to think.

> the price of the one I got), and listening to music on the job can be a lot

According to DeMarco and Lister's "Peopleware", 2nd edition, chapter 12
("Bring back the door"), research made in Cornell University demonstrated
that people use the same brain center for listening to music and for
creativity (needed to create the really novel solutions to problems).
Thus, hearing music on programming job is bad for your creativity.

Due to obvious reasons (no offense meant or taken, ShlomiF :-) ) I can't
personally vouch for the correctness of the above claim.

> star-programmers refuse to do" :)

A better way to phrase the same way is "come and work as apprentice to
today's brightest programming stars, learn their secrets and ways of
thinking, and 7 years from now you will too be a star programmer".

> (e.g., the Technion's) where you can get books you need at a moment's notice.

This is not the same.  Librarians deal mostly with finding, loaning,
returning and repairing books. Information specialists gather information
from all sources, and know where to find the answer to any question. 

> A fast internet connection at home and/or a cellular Internet connection for

Continue suggesting more wild ideas.
                                             --- Omer
WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  see at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html

---

From: mulix <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 22:35:35 +0200 (EET)

> Here is a question to the real star programmers among us:

If i were a star programmer, i wouldn't be reading my mail on friday
night, i'd be coding the next linux, from scratch, and be done debugging
it by the time the takeout arrives.

> What would you recommend the company to equip you with?

here's my wish list:

flexible working hours. i work when i want to.

flexible working location. onsite or offsite, at my discretion. have
laptop and internet connection, will travel.

flexible projects and choice of technology. c++, c, java, perl, commodore
asm if that's what i want to do the prohject in (and i can give sufficient
technical arguments to support my whim)

> 2. Technical writer to spare you from the pain of documenting your code

i would like to have ultimate control over my staff memebrs. to be able to
decide who to work with and who not to.

> 4. Big, flat panel display (or, better, two displays).

in general, a computer which makes my task, programming, as easy as
possible. and i decide what defines such a computer, naturally.

> 5. Fast Internet connection.

wholeheartedly agree.

>  facts that the programmer needs.

access to any knowledge source i need, be it in electronic form or
dead-tree form. no questions asked as to why i need it or how much it
costs.

>                                          --- Omer
> WARNING TO SPAMMERS:at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html
--
mulix

linux/reboot.h: #define LINUX_REBOOT_MAGIC1 0xfee1dead

---

From: Omer Musaev <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 15:53:28 +0000

>> What would you recommend the company to equip you with?
<snip>

> possible. and i decide what defines such a computer, naturally.

Contrary to Nadav's experience, I find 3 monitors on a desk a good 
thing:) Hovewer, as mulix stated, 
a perfect computer is a question of personal decision.

> dead-tree form. no questions asked as to why i need it or how much it

While I am not considering myself a star programmer, I think that LOTS 
of disk space on netapp
and personal budget, i.e. readiness of employer to purchase whatever I 
think could help me is
a good thing TM.

Besides, I woild like to have a decent salary, good stock options share 
and a car.

omerm

---

From: Gilad Ben-Yossef <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2000 20:15:48 +0200

> Here is a question to the real star programmers among us:

To comment on some previous comments regarding "how does one knows 
whether she is a star programer?" then I guess my answer would be:

If you happen to work for a multinational corporation and you happen to 
drive back to your (company supplied) home in a Southern California 
"gated community" (3 pools, tennis courts, electric gates) by the 
wonderful (Really!) road going between Malibu and Thousand Oaks, and 
while driving the (company supplied) car you happen to hit a car going 
the other way and totally trash your and the other drivers car (but no 
one gets hurt) and the company simply sends you a new car and have their 
lawyers take care of everything for you, without you having to to pay a 
penny, display insurance papers etc. then you must be a star programer :-)

<sigh> Yes, I was once that good... ;-))

Now seriously, you seem to describe something very similar to the 
"Surgical Team" that Fred Brooks describes in chapter 3 of the now 
famous "The Mythical Man-Month". Since I can't quote the entire chapter 
I'd advice you to go read the book. It's boring as hell, but still very 
important.

Besides it (the book) makes a hell of a crushing answer when some dumb 
ass pointy haired manager tries to convince you to take in new team
members to try and make a late project deliver on time and you go:
"That will only make the project *MORE* late, not less!" and he goes:
"Says who?". At this point I simply send them the title and the ISBN of 
the book and a link to it on Amazon.. ;-)

I always thought the Surgical Team idea is very good except of the 
social implications but never heard of any place this actually got tried 
out in.

Interestingly, once can think of the Open Source development model 
presented by Linux and ilk as a sort of Surgical Team development:
The developers write code, someone else tests, yet someone else 
documents (well, maybe... ;-) This in addition to many of the 
"communication and administration" functions becoming unnecessary
because of the extremely low cost of communication.
Well, maybe I'm stretching it too far...

Gilad.

-- 
Gilad Ben-Yossef <[email-masked]>
http://benyossef.com :: +972(54)756701
"Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong, while interrupts are disabled. "
	-- Murphey's law of kernel programing.