Subject: guidelines patch

From: [email-masked]
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 07:18:55 +0300

Hi,

thought about it and here are some bugfixes:

1) s%guy%guy/girl%
2) ditch the size thing. we all know that size doesn't matter
3) yes, things like stock market stuff count if its code you are proud of for
some reason. (Ira wrote an sms gateway that uses gosms webpage through email
and avoided paying the fee an actuall sms email address costs - thats a nice
hack)
4) anti spam software is always very welcome, unless it isn't customizable.
uncustomizable code isn't a hack.
5) obfuscated code, obscure languages, simulating one language in another - are
all very welcome

By all that - Nadav is definetly a hacker, for sending us cool code and for
Ivrix which is a nice hack by itself. Besides, we break for cyborgs :-)

[OT]: if anyone read Nadav's email and willing to summerize the email in few
lines... 

another question: since parties are discussed - anyone hs an idea for a good
time for a party? 

Topics we thought about: 
- advanced python
- advanced scheme
- C++ bashing
- an obscure programming language Moshez mentioned, I forgot the name. No not
  Python.

And an idea for an RFC, if it doesn't already exist:
Protocol of Communication between Abacus. (Abacii in plural?)
Perhaps even on top of TCP/IP.

--
Chen Shapira	Web Developer and Linux Activist
The algorithm for finding the longest path in a graph is NP-complete.
For you systems people, that means it's *real slow*.

---

From: Moshe Zadka <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 10:35:57 +0300 (IDT)

> - an obscure programming language Moshez mentioned, I forgot the name. No not

I mentioned both Haskell and Sather. You probably meant Sather though.
Both have such cool features that we could talk for days about them.
BTW: How about "Obscure Programming Languages" party? Each person talks
15-30 mins about a programming language no more then two other members of
the audience know. If you have to learn a programming language to do so,
good for you!

--
Moshe Zadka <[email-masked]>
http://www.oreilly.com/news/prescod_0300.html
http://www.linux.org.il -- we put the penguin in .com

---

From: Omer Zak <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 11:44:01 +0300 (EET DST)

> the audience know. If you have to learn a programming language to do so,

I second this motion.  Haskell, Dylan, Linda, K11Z, Simula 67, SN0B0L 4,
Fortran I, Fortarn II, FORTH, Algol 58, Algol 68, Jovial,...

                             Long live type systems!
                                                  --- Omer
WARNING:
By sending me unsolicited commercial/political/religious E-mail message/s
(known also as "spam"), you irrevocably agree to pay me US$500.- (plus any
legal expenses incurred by my trying to collect the amount due) per
unsolicited commercial/political/religious E-mail message - for the service
of receiving it.

---

From: Moshe Zadka <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 11:50:52 +0300 (IDT)

> Fortran I, Fortarn II, FORTH, Algol 58, Algol 68, Jovial,...

It would be even cooler to request which languages I want people to talk
about it <wink>
I'd really love to hear a "How to Build a Forth Interpreter in 30
Minutes".

---

From: "Nadav Har'El" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 16:17:18 +0300

On Fri, May 12, 2000, Moshe Zadka wrote about "Re: [hackers-il] guidelines patch":
>...

Reminds me of something I had once running on my Commodore-64: a Forth
interpreter written in Logo (!)
Logo is actually not a bad language, a little (and I won't go into details)
like lisp, if you ignore the funny turtle commands :)
But I have to admit I don't remember anything of Forth (I also haven't used
logo in many years, so I'm very rusty on that too), so I'd love to hear
someone speak about it. Another language I was always interested in learning
but never actually did is Prolog.

P.S. Chen - that (long) email I sent you was sent to you personally, not to
the list, so I guess that people probably didn't understand the references
to it in your last posting. But *please* don't post that email to the group -
/dev/null is a better destination :)

P.S.#2: My anti spam system is configurable in the sense that it is composed
of C, Perl and Procmail scripts and you have to edit them yourself to change
the filtering rules. Now *that's* a hack :) Maybe someday I'll post the scripts
to this group, after I clean them up a bit and if there's enough interest.

P.S. #3: My sms-sending script works on both Cellcom and Orange, and is written
in perl, and I'm making some cool uses out of it (e.g., sending me headers of
email, and stock updates). You can also use it to have real-time notification
of events on your internet-connected machines (e.g., someone is currently
doing a distributed-denial-of-service attack on it). I already posted the
script to linux-il, but if there's interest I can post it here again. Maybe
then someone can improve it (e.g., a queue of messages, to allow later retries
when the SMS gateway is down, would be very useful).

-- 
Nadav Har'El                        |        Friday, May 12 2000, 7 Iyyar 5760
[email-masked]             |-----------------------------------------
Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |If Barbie is so popular, why do you have
http://nadav.harel.org.il           |to buy her friends?

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 09:34:30 +0300

> Fortran I, Fortarn II, FORTH, Algol 58, Algol 68, Jovial,...

I take Simula. (always wanted to learn this language)
if you already know simula - let me know, so I can find another language :-)

---

From: Omer Mussaev <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 09:09:23 +0300

> the audience know. If you have to learn a programming language to do so,

And what exactly language is? is a language without user base a language?
and language without compiler? In that case I can bring you some more
brain-damaged languages, like language which I and Oded Borenshtein had
invented while serving the army, which is called alpha and is:
declarative
functional
object-oriented
and combines (of course) the worst sides of each paradygm. Which reminds me
a sweet idea of designing language (kudos to Chen, who is to blame as well),
where all variable references are evaluated at run time (like setq in elisp), but
instead of treating argument to setq as an expression to be evaluated,
the SOB is treated as seed to random variable name generator. Think:
(lambda (f) ((lambda (x) ((gensym f) ((gensym x)
(gensym x))) (lambda (y)((gensym f) ((gensym y) (gensym y))))

lots of fun:))

--
Omer Mussaev    051-308-214   mailto:[email-masked]
systems programmer, Mercury Interactive/RND/Conduct/core

---

From: Omer Mussaev <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 09:15:37 +0300

> I'd really love to hear a "How to Build a Forth Interpreter in 30

Well, you have it.
---
"A complete idiot's guide for building a Forth interpreter in 1 minute".
May be suitable for imbeciles, cretines, paranoids, dislects,
necrozoopediphiles
etc.

Introduction. If you are a complete idiot and you want to construct a Forth
interpereter in less than 1 minutes, this book is for you. The author covers
all obscure cases and guides you with ease through all complexities of such a
daunting task.

Chapter 1.

You are an idiot? *don't do it, then*

el coda.
---

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---

From: Moshe Zadka <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 11:48:36 +0300 (IDT)

> if you already know simula - let me know, so I can find another language :-)

I take Sather. ditto if you know this language.

---

From: Moshe Zadka <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 11:52:55 +0300 (IDT)

> And what exactly language is? is a language without user base a language?

For our purposes, we'll define something a language if it is Turing
complete and has a free compiler/interpreter for a popular platfrom, say a
UNIX or Win9x/WinNT

> and combines (of course) the worst sides of each paradygm.

We would *like* of course, interesting languages. Sather, e.g., has the
notions of contravariance and iterators, which are worth knowing.

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 11:55:48 +0300

> complete and has a free compiler/interpreter for a popular platfrom, say a

cross out Simula then.

---

From: Moshe Zadka <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 12:02:02 +0300 (IDT)

> > complete and has a free compiler/interpreter for a popular platfrom, say a

Hmmmm....Okay, I'll give up free if really want.
--
Moshe Zadka <[email-masked]>
http://www.oreilly.com/news/prescod_0300.html
http://www.linux.org.il -- we put the penguin in .com

---

From: Omer Mussaev <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 11:59:37 +0300

> I take Sather. ditto if you know this language.

are gnu ld scripts considered programs in programming language?

---

From: Moshe Zadka <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 13:39:07 +0300 (IDT)

> are gnu ld scripts considered programs in programming language?

Are they turing complete? (they already pass the "free on linux" test)

---

From: Gaal Yahas <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 13:58:36 +0300

> Are they turing complete? (they already pass the "free on linux" test)

Of course, this reminds me of the following sicketry:

==snip==
>From: "Eric F. Richards" 
Newsgroups: alt.humor.best-of-usenet
Subject: [alt.ssadmin.reovery] Re: ASR London - The Next Generation
Date: 30 Jan 1996 06:40:41 GMT

From: [email-masked] (Jonathan. H. N. Chin)
Newsgroups: alt.sysadmin.recovery
Subject: Re: ASR London - The Next Generation

[email-masked] (Nick Cuccia) writes:
>--Nick (still working on towers of hanoi in sendmail.cf...)

Bastard.
I was planning to go home early for once.
Here:

# Towers of Hanoi
S49
RHANOI:$+       $:1 2 3$1
R$-$-$-$*[$+]   $:$1$2$3$4          
R$-$-$-         $@$1$2$3 
R$-$-$-@$*      $:$>49 $1$3$2$4     
R$-$-$-$*       $:$>49 $2$3$1$4[Move Top Disk Of Peg $1 To Peg $3]      
R$-$-$-$*       $:$3$2$1@$4      

Add to your /etc/sendmail.cf equivalent.
If S49 is in use, change the three `49's to an unused ruleset.

Invoke with something like:

  echo '49 HANOI:@@@@' | /usr/sbin/sendmail -bt -d21

Add `@'s to taste.
Assumes you have three pegs and want to move the stack from
the first peg to the second.

v8 output is cleaner than SunOS.

Was too lazy to make it count (ie. let `HANOI:14', etc, work);
Didn't seem too hard, but kind of long-winded and tedious.

Anyone know the iterative (non-recursive) solution?

==snip==

:-)

-- 
believing is seeing
[email-masked]
http://www.forum2.org/gaal/