Subject: Worselling a PC

From: Omer Zak <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 17:49:17 +0200 (EET)

(Worsel is the name of a non-human Lensman featured in E.E. 'Doc' Smith's
Lensman series.  He normally protected his mind against evil influences by
telepathic Bad Guys.  However, when he needed to trap them, he exposed one
part of his compertmentalized mind and left it unprotected.  When the
Baddies took control over the unprotected part of his mind, the other
parts of his mind caught them.  Similar in principle to computer systems
set up to trap crackers.)

My PC has all its hard disks installed in removable bays.
Now I want to set up a hard disk with a popular but vulnerable operating
system, for the purpose of surfing and reading unsafe E-mail attachments.

Full anti-virus protection is not needed, because I can re-image the hard
disk from a CD-ROM backup any time.
However, I don't want my PC to become network nuisance due to the actions
of certain viruses (such as SirCam).

Any suggestions how to protect others from anything my PC could do under
viral influence? (Besides a firewall, which needs another PC.)
                                             --- Omer
There is no IGLU Cabal.  The former Cabalists, all of whom were insanely
horny guys, had a fit of madness, and they converted into Islam, exploded
themselves in a vain attempt to take some kaffirs with them, and went
directly into the heavenly and welcoming arms of 72 beautiful houris.
WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html

---

From: Tzafrir Cohen <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 18:13:07 +0200 (IST)

> system, for the purpose of surfing and reading unsafe E-mail attachments.

A simpler slution is VMWare. If you don't happen to have removable disks
and your PC happens to have the resources (96MB, PI233, IIRC. Not a big
deal) then it might even cost less.

But you are connected to the network when reading those mails, right?

> viral influence? (Besides a firewall, which needs another PC.)

What do you want to protect against?

A "virus" (virus, trojan, worm, whatever), once being able to execute on
your system, can cause (assuming it has full priviliges, which is correct
under win9x, and not always incorrect even with better systems):

* immediate damage to the data and software installed on your computer
  (Also consider bios firmware deletion)
* expose local data (sircam and magistr send arbitrary documents with each
  message)
* send infected messages from you, and thus make you look bad
* plant back-doors
* potentially a base of an attack on other computers in the network

Some of those take effect immediately, and thus can't be reversed by
flushing the disk afterwards.

This should only work if you download mail, disconnect the computer,
execute the suspected programs and when you're done, you revert the system
back to how it was before.

Anything less won't be safe agains both mass-mailers and backdoors.

-- 
Tzafrir Cohen
mailto:[email-masked]
http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir

---

From: Omer Zak <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 19:02:52 +0200 (EET)

> deal) then it might even cost less.

This will work until some clever person finds a bug in VMWare, which
allows worms to escape the VMWare 'jail' and wreak havoc all around.
This reminds me of a Star Trek TNG episode, in which a hologram creature
(Moriarty)  tried to take over control of the Enterprise, by fooling
people into believing that they work on the real Enterprise controls while
they work on hologram simulations thereof.

> (Also consider bios firmware deletion)

I am not concerned about data or software.  BIOS firmware is a problem.
Aren't BIOSes normally protected by a jumper, which must be
removed/inserted before flashing can happen?

> * expose local data (sircam and magistr send arbitrary documents with each

I am not planning to keep sensitive data in the special hard disk.

> * send infected messages from you, and thus make you look bad

I want to prevent this.

> * plant back-doors

Will be wiped out next time I copy from CD-ROM.

> * potentially a base of an attack on other computers in the network

I want to prevent this.

> flushing the disk afterwards.

Yes, and this is why I am asking for suggestions.

> Anything less won't be safe agains both mass-mailers and backdoors.

This will solve the problem of handling unsafe E-mail, except that the
following procedure will be followed:
1. Download E-mail under Linux.
2. Save unsafe E-mail messages and attachments in a special folder.
3. Copy the folder to CD-RW.
4. Swap hard disks and reboot the PC.
5. Use the popular&insecure OS to read the special folder's contents from
   CD-RW.

But there's still the problem of unsafe Web surfing.

After your clarifications, the goals are:
1. Protect BIOS against unwanted flashing.
2. Detect any outgoing undesired traffic (SirCam or Code Red type).
3. If possible, block any undesired outgoing traffic.

                                             --- Omer
This is no IGLU Cabal.  The former IGLU Cabal members found a loophole in
the God-erected Holy Firewall+ChrootJail Combo and used it to gain
Godly powers and escape our limited reality.
WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html