Subject: The Story of a Technion Course

From: Shlomi Fish <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 11:43:25 +0200 (IST)

The course in question is the Electrical Engineering Department's "Image
Processing and Analysis" course (046200), which you have heard about
previously regarding the Word -> PostScript business. However, as it
turned out the PostScripts we were given as a replacement for a textbook
were the least of my problems.

Here are the facts regarding the course, in chrnological order:

1. We were given four "dry" assignments and three computer assignments
throughout the semester. Each one took days on end to complete. My partner
and I prepared all the assignments completely without making use of
references or copying other people's answers.

Our marks reflected that fact. While the grades of the assignments were
littered with 100's and above 95 grades, ours were around 90.

2. Before the test, my partner and I went over all the tests in the tests
booklet and solved them. I could testify that I knew the material
perfectly for the "Moed Aleph" exam.

3. This course was actually one of my two favourite courses which I have
took until now.

4. The "Moed Aleph" exam was not fair, to say the least. It contained
questions which non of the students encountered either in their homework
or in the previous exams. As a result of it, I freaked out, and eventually
made myself leave the room as to calm myself down.

The grades were factored (which is a poor replacement for a fair test),
and I received 51 as my final grade.

5. Without much choice, I went to the "Moed Beith" test. This time, I felt
the test was fair and felt that I did well on the test. However, my final
grade this time was 54.

I ordered the test booklet. It turned out that they checked all three
questions, and gave me a final grade of 28. There was a comment that said
that my hand-writing was very illigible (which is true). After I went over
the test, I wrote an "Ir'ur" in which I hope to earn some extra points
over mis-graded section marks. Hopefully, my grade will be raised by at
least a point or two.

6. The caveat is that I cannot meet with the professor (or whoever graded
the test) to explain and negotiate with him.

7. I wrote and gave a lecture about the GIMP, based on some of the
material I learned in the class. You can find it online at:

http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/lecture/Gimp/

This course has been the pinnacle of my frustrations with the Technion. If
my "Ir'ur" will be rejected I'll have to ask for an oral test (under what
grounds, though?), or take the course again to improve my grade.

Had I known in advance what the Technion would be like, I would not have
entered it in the first place. The "Electrical Engineer" title is simply
not worth the 5 years one has to spend in it, and all the frustration
that I encountered so far. The fact is, I was actually happy being an IT
worker, and, surprisingly learn much more doing actual work than studying.

But right now, I have 7 semesters behind me, and a lot of courses which I
did well (or extremely well) on, and I don't want to throw all this time
down the drain. Frankly, the thought that I may be earning more as an IT
worker by virtue of being a Technion graduate, is not much comfort since I
personally don't care too much for money.

Oh well, who is John Galt?

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish

There is no IGLU Cabal!
All the previous Cabal members decided they needed to have a B.E. or B.Sc.
and as a result, they became so frustrated that they neglected maintaining
the IGLU site.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish        [email-masked]
Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
Home E-mail:       [email-masked]

If:
1. A is A
2. A is not not-A
does it imply that
1. B is B
2. B is not not-B

---

From: "Nadav Har'El" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 12:03:27 +0200

> Processing and Analysis" course (046200), which you have heard about

Without replying to your entire message (I have a lot to say, but don't
have time now), let me just share a little secrect with you: to finish
the Technion you'll need a certain number of points. If you study too many
points then at the end you can ask for some of the courses to be "discarded"
(alternatively, you can have them "moved" to a credit for an MSc if you
do that in the Technion too). There may be rules that don't allow you to
"discard" undergraduate-only courses, and you certainly can't discard a
failing grade (you'll need to pass it...), so you'll need to check the
actual rules (it's also been 7 years since I graduated, so the rules might
have changed since).

So if this is a shared graduate-undergraduate course (the third digit of the
course number is 6, not 4 - it seems to be so in the number you gave above,
but it doesn't have enough digits...), then just make sure you get a passing
grade (you need an extra point? try extra hard with the irur...), and
then study an extra course. At the end, ask for this course to be removed
from your final grade sheet. All mention of that course will be gone and it
will not affect your GPA. Of course, one implication is that you probably
won't get a "Mitstayen Nasi" for this semester - I don't have an idea how
to get around this problem.

I did this (if I remember correctly) for two courses: I removed on "85"
altogether (it was the lowest grade I got on a "shared" course, if I remember
correctly) and moved a "100" to my later MSc studies. I know friends who
discarded courses like that too - so it was a common practice when I
graduated.
You can also do that in MSc studies (though the rules are even more
complicated), so I removed a one "60" I got, at the price of having to study
*two* extra courses.

-- 
Nadav Har'El                        |    Tuesday, Nov  6 2001, 20 Heshvan 5762
[email-masked]             |-----------------------------------------
Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |"Did you sleep well?" "No, I made a
http://nadav.harel.org.il           |couple of mistakes."

---

From: guy keren <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 14:38:57 +0200 (EET)

On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Shlomi Fish wrote:

> throughout the semester. Each one took days onend to complete. My partner

i think you've missed one of the greatest values the technion teaches you
- learn how to share information ;)  what do you think we do at work? we
'cheat' and 'copy' from each other (and other people) all the time. to
paraphrase on newman's words

   "he who controls the reference - controls in-for-ma-tion..."

(by the way, this is an afterthought - when i was a student i didn't realy
 use references, for sheer lazyness).

> perfectly for the "Moed Aleph" exam.

that's already 50% of the purpose of taking a course - to know. you know?
its good enough for you.

> 3. This course was actually one of my two favourite courses which I have

and that's the second 50% of the purpose of taking a course - to have fun.
you liked the course that well? its good enough for you.

> or in the previous exams. As a result of it, I freaked out,and eventually

why should questions in the exam be taken from homework or from previous
exams? contrariwise - the more interesting exams i had contained questions
i didn't see beforehand. i hated exams whose questions were copied from
older references i have already seen - that made the exams boring (unless
it was in courses i never wanted to take - in which case the exams would
have been boring regardless).

> the test was fair and felt that I did well on the test. However, my final

i had a similar (althought a non-failure) case with physics 3. i got a low
grade in the first exam (i think 55) and due to homework the final grade
was 57. i went to moed bet - and got 56. i decided to let go at that.
the next time i got a 59 (APL) i didn't even think of taking another exam.

actually, it makes one's grading paper more colourfull - i had grades all
the way from 56 to 100.

> grounds, though?)

perhaps on the grounds of their claim that 'your hand writing is
illigible'?

btw, even if you'll take the course again, you'll find you need to invest
in it much less time then you did previously - a course's materia sinks
into one's mind much better after a few month (its the case with any
course to which you return after a while, especially when you _didn't_
deal with it for a while - such is the human mind, from my experience).

>, or take the course again to improve my grade.
>

are you sure the technion didn't give you anything?  not even that
ellusive quality called 'coherence of thinking' ?

> personally don't care too much for money.

cheer up - you'll be over it some day (regardless if you finish our
studies or simply decide to leave them, btw). cheer up. life outside
uni right now are somewhat hellish on their own. possibly in 1.5-2 years
we'll start seeing some improvement (no, it won't get back to the 'jolly
1999-2000' days in the next 5-6 years, but still, it could be again like
it was in 96-97). until then, you could enjoy the technion - just take it
more lightly, not as some 'mission to accomplish'.

feel well,

--
guy

"For world domination - press 1,
 or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy

---

From: guy keren <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 14:44:09 +0200 (EET)

On Tue, 6 Nov 2001, Nadav Har'El wrote:

> will not affect your GPA.

why hide? this is the perfectionism's voice, that you are speaking with.
besides, the effect the grade would have on one's final average is far
less dramatic then it seems, so it'd hardly matter later on.

for what it's worth - i, personally, don't look too highly on people who
hide their 'bad work' in this manner. it makes you wonder what else such
people will be hiding when they work for you.

> Of course, one implication is that you probably

in 4 words - does it _realy_ matter?

--
guy

---

From: Shlomi Fish <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 15:14:57 +0200 (IST)

> actual rules (it's also been 7 years since I graduated, so the rules might

That's not the point. The point is that I knew the course very well and I
deserved a much better grade than 54. And besides, I need it as one of the
courses of the "Signal Processing" specialization group, so I can't avoid
taking it.

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish

If:
1. A is A
2. A is not not-A
does it imply that
1. B is B
2. B is not not-B

---

From: Shlomi Fish <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 15:27:27 +0200 (IST)

>  use references, for sheer lazyness).

As much as I am for sharing information and for not re-inventing the
wheel, I also believe you learn better by experiencing with the material
yourself. To quote one of Hazal:

"I learned a lot from my teachers, more from my friends, and from my
students the most."

Therefore, I deliberately try to avoid using references whenever possible,
so I will be prepared for the test.

> that's already 50% of the purpose of taking a course - to know. you know?

Actually, I think it's 33% - see below.

> you liked the course that well? its good enough for you.

Again, that's 33%. The other 33% is to get credit for the course.

> have been boring regardless).

Maybe I did not explain myself well. The questions in the test bore no
_resemblence_ to what we learned or encountered previously. I believe a
question should be such that a student should be able to solve it using
the tools he acquired in the course. That was not the case for that test.

> actually, it makes one's grading paper more colourfull - i had grades all

I'm not into trying to improve very low grades, either. However, 54 or 51
is useless for me because I cannot get credit for it.

> deal with it for a while - such is the human mind, from my experience).

I know. I just want to save myself the extra time and effort it will take
to freshen the material, attend the test, etc.

> ellusive quality called 'coherence of thinking' ?

I believe I was a relatively coherent thinker before I entered the
Technion. If at all, the Technion gave me specific knowledge and skills. I
believe some of it is actually useful and insightful, but the
Signal to Noise ratio is not very high.

> more lightly, not as some 'mission to accomplish'.

My only objective now regarding studies is to get the diploma. Thus, I
avoid or circumvent difficult courses, specialize in what I'm good at
a-priori, etc.

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish

> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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If:
1. A is A
2. A is not not-A
does it imply that
1. B is B
2. B is not not-B

---

From: "Nadav Har'El" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 15:36:43 +0200

> less dramatic then it seems, so it'd hardly matter later on.

When you study 50 courses, it's very probable that you f*ck up in one course -
maybe you didn't feel well during the test, maybe the teacher didn't like
you, maybe you had an allergy to the material - it doesn't matter.

Everybody that does statistics knows that it is common practice to remove
"flukes" before doing averages, standard deviations, and things like that.
If you have a "90" in 49 courses and a "50" in one, it doesn't make any
sense to say that you have 89.2 average, and some standard deviation: you
have a 90 average, 0 standard deviation, and one fluke measurement.

True, the change isn't dramatic unless, for example, you're 0.5 points
below graduating "summa cum laude". And in the real world, these things
do matter... I've seen people (not me!) who went to teachers begging for
them to raise 1 point on their test grade, because that fraction of a
point is exactly what would have given them hitstainut nasi (teachers usually
react angrily to such requests not based on any actual error in their grading).

Anyway, I wasn't saying that Shlomi should do this and get this course
removed from his GPA. I only meant that if this grade really bothers him,
there is a way that it can be removed if he works hard enough (*pass* the
course first, then take an extra course).

> people will be hiding when they work for you.

Should you also publish papers even if your research failed? Sell a product
that doesn't work? Publish buggy programs on the web? If you don't do that,
are you trying to "hide your bad work"? Is that bad?

When you fail on one occasion, it is natural to want to cover this up,
and not being remembered this failure forever. When you're an habitual
failure, there is no way to cover it up (you can't take 20 extra courses
and remove the 20 worst courses: first, they won't let you, and second,
if you're such a failure why would you do better this time?)

> in 4 words - does it _realy_ matter?

If you need the money, it does... (the prize was several thousands shekels
when I studied, depending on your GPA).

Besides, as I said, the final GPA *does* matter. It doesn't matter if you
get a 93 or 93.1, but graduating "cum laude"/"summa cum laude" impresses
employers (whether that _really_ matters is arguable ;)), and the difference
between (say) a 75 GPA, 85, or 95 is also important for the same reasons.
I'm not saying it actually says something about you ("if your grade is less
than X you are stupid and useless!") but rather that other people who don't
know you, such as potential employers, many pay attention to this grade for
lack of better verifiable input about your "qualities".

-- 
Nadav Har'El                        |    Tuesday, Nov  6 2001, 20 Heshvan 5762
[email-masked]             |-----------------------------------------
Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Can Microsoft make a product that doesn't
http://nadav.harel.org.il           |suck? Yes, a vacuum cleaner!