Subject: RE: [hackers-il] Re: Linux/NT administration (was Re: Email pract ices, and other threads which are irrelevant)

From: Chen Shapira <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 17:51:54 +0200

> How lucky. Machines here BSOD from time to time. It's 
> uncommon, but it 
> happens every month or so to at least one workstation here. My 2K WS 
> froze (not BSOD-ed) two days ago and I had to hit the switch.

I believe it has a lot to do with hardware.
NT is picky about things like motherboard and memory.

We use high line Dell and Compaq machines. Lower grade machines were less
stable.

> It's not that they are not interested - they just find it 
> irrelevant to 
> programming. They expect all the 'administration' problems to 
> be handled 
> by the sysadmin, because they are not related to the project at hand.

After we hired a sysadmin that I trust blindly, I also became less
interested.

Pickying a good NT sysadmin is looking for a needle in a haystack.
Everyone can locate the right controls, few know what they mean, and fewer
still can
do anything from command-line.
Scripting their tasks is probably really far out.

Linux admins seem to filter themselves, but if Gnome/KDE get
better and more popular, the same problem will appear over there too.
Already we caught an applicant to Unix admin+programmer position
that couldn't name her favorite shell. She couldn't name any shell,
actually.

---

From: Arik Baratz <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 19:29:52 +0200

> We use high line Dell and Compaq machines. Lower grade machines were less
Lucky you again. We use no-names, but they have a good motherboard (I 
remember we payed extra for a good board but it was 2 years ago), and we 
use Kingston memory.

> Scripting their tasks is probably really far out.
I had a Unix admin that was very good, but he wouldn't document anything 
and he did everything the 'hard way'. I made him script his tasks and he 
was thanking me later on. Maybe, if someone sits on the NT admin's neck 
for long enough she will also script her tasks.

> that couldn't name her favorite shell. She couldn't name any shell,
Ouch. I had an interviewee for a network admin who said that TCP belongs 
in layer 7 (in the OSI ISO model), and I had another one who said that 
combining 2 adjacent class C networks has to be done with VLANs (no 
other way). When I suggested removing one bit from the netmask his face 
wore the question-mark look.

In fact, I'm still looking for a network admin (NT, with good TCP/IP, 
SMTP, HTTP, MS/ISA, MS/Exchange knowledge). For relocation to the USA (LA).

-- Arik

---

From: "Nadav Har'El" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 02:27:36 +0300

> wore the question-mark look.

My interview war story beats yours ;)

We interviewed someone for an TCP/IP and Linux-related programming job.
We asked him (or her, I don't remember) relatively simple questions, which
he could not answer. Finally we asked him something about the structure
of the Internet, and we found out he was sure that the Internet was being
managed from "some building in the US" :)

I wonder how can anyone sit through 3 years in the Technion (or a similar
institution) and absorb so little :(

By the way, it reminds me of a Blonde-joke. I hope the puritans here don't
mind that I post a joke: (no anti-female, anti-blonde, or anti-anything
intended in this joke)

  A young blonde woman goes to an office for a job interview.
  The interviewer decides to start with the basics. "So, miss, can you tell
  us your age, please?" The blonde counts carefully on her fingers for about
  3 seconds before replying "Ehh... 23!".
  The interviewer tries another straightforward one to break the ice. "And
  can you tell us your height, please?" The young lady stands up and produces
  a measuring tape from her handbag. She then traps one end under her foot
  and extends the tape to the top of her head. She checks the measurement and
  announces, "Five foot three!"
  This isn't looking good so the interviewer goes for the real basics.
  "And ehh, just to confirm for our records, your name please?" The blonde
  bobs her head from side to side for about twenty seconds, mouthing something
  silently to herself, before replying "Stephanie".
  The interviewer is completely baffled at this stage, so he asks "Just out
  of curiosity, miss. We can understand your counting on your fingers to work
  out your age, and the measuring tape for your height is obvious, but what
  were you doing when we asked you your name?"
  "Ohh that!" replies the blonde, "That's just me running through 'Happy
  birthday to you, happy birthday to you...'"

> SMTP, HTTP, MS/ISA, MS/Exchange knowledge). For relocation to the USA (LA).

I assume you mean Lala Land, not the Pelican State :)

(for the less versed in Americana, I mean Los Angeles, not Louisiana).

-- 
Nadav Har'El                        |      Friday, Jun 21 2002, 11 Tammuz 5762
[email-masked]             |-----------------------------------------
Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Attention: There will be a rain dance
http://nadav.harel.org.il           |Friday night, weather permitting.

---

From: Shlomi Fish <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 13:31:30 +0300 (IDT)

> We use high line Dell and Compaq machines. Lower grade machines were less

It sounds like the toad that sat on top of an elephant that crossed a
river and then said "hoorah, we did it!".

I believe Linux is stable even on off-the-shelf hardware, the kind you buy
from a "put-my-trademark-here" vendor. Or at least was until the 2.4.x
kernels.

> that couldn't name her favorite shell. She couldn't name any shell,

Interesting. Was she still knowledgable about UNIX? Did she know how to
work with the command line (ls, cp, rm, mv and friends)? Did she know what
a shell was?

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish

There is no IGLU Cabal! All the old members were replaced by new ones who
did not know what the L stood for.

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Shlomi Fish        [email-masked]
Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
Home E-mail:       [email-masked]

"Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
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