Subject: University Courses

From: Chen Shapira <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 12:23:32 +0200

> > For more information, Technion students may wish to take the course
> > Complex Functions, which I believe has some more serious 
> equivalents from
> > the Math faculty point-of-view. Then again, they may not, 
> because although
> > interesting, it's not a breath-taking course.

I'd like to make a short survey:

What was your favorite university course(s)?

Thanks,
Chen.

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From: "Nadav Har'El" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 12:39:39 +0200

> What was your favorite university course(s)?

Mine was probably "introduction to topology". It was an extremely fascinating
subject (anybody who thinks Mathematics is the Algebra you learn in school
should take a look at topology, which is, paraphrasing Monty Phython,
"something completely different"), and I also had a teacher with a very
interesting grading approach: before the test he gave us 50 problems, and told
us the test will have only questions from this list. I solved all 50 questions
(this was VERY hard, and took be over 50 hours), and got a 100, but ended up
knowing the subject perfectly (unfortunately I've forgotten most of it since...)
and enjoying it very much.

Actually, now that I think of it, I can probably say that at least 50% of
the the Math courses I took in the technion were "very interesting", and
40% more were "interesting". We didn't have many non-intersting courses :)

If you had CS courses in mind, then I'd have to say "algorithms in graph
theory", given by Prof. Shimon Even. Another course, "compiler theory" had
great potential, but it wasn't so great in practice (I'd read the Dragon Book
before taking the course, so it didn't really tell me anything new - and it
was the semester of the big faculty strike so it was short).

-- 
Nadav Har'El                        |    Wednesday, Feb 7 2001, 14 Shevat 5761
[email-masked]             |-----------------------------------------
Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |For people who like peace and quiet - a
http://nadav.harel.org.il           |phoneless cord.

---

From: Omer Mussaev <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 13:44:32 -0500

> What was your favorite university course(s)?

1. Compiler construction.
2. Functional programming and ,\ -calculus.
3. Principles of programming languages.

--
Omer Mussaev 054308250 mailto:[email-masked]
  Mercury Interactive / APM core technologies R&D

---

From: Shlomi Fish <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:17:25 +0200 (IST)

> 40% more were "interesting". We didn't have many non-intersting courses :)

I wish I had the same statistics for studying EE, but then again I may
have missed my calling by studying that instead of CS or Math (or both
:-)). But for the general thread:

My favourite course so far was probably "Logic Design and Introduction to
Computers". Of the EE faculty of course, as I heard the parallel course of
the CS faculty sucks big time. Anyway, my partner for that course,
absolutely despised it. I found it fascinating because you actaully design
a computer from scratch and really get a feel about how computers operate.

Second to that, was probably "Intro to Probablity Heth". Again, that very
same guy considers himself awful in it although he got a higher grade than
I do. (long story - see remark at (*)). Afterwards there was "Introduction
to Digital Systems" and "Introduction to Data Structures and Algorithms"
at no particular order. Judging from that list, one can see that I have
indeed missed my calling...

After that, "Intro to Computer Networks", "Linear Circuits", "Random 
Signals", "Intro to Economics", "Fourier Series and Integral Transforms",
The Hedvas and the Differntial Equations, (in no particular order) and
then others. I took "Linear Algebra" back in the open university and liked
it, but I'm not sure if it counts as a university course.

Right now my strategy is to finish my bachelor degree as soon as I can,
while probably taking a Computers specialization (it's going to be hard
because it will require me to take at least 4 extra courses - 7 if I'd
like to make it a double specialization).

> was the semester of the big faculty strike so it was short).

Hmmm, I read "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs", so I
don't know how much the EE course by the same name while adding 1, will
renew too much to it. But I have to take it as a third core course. (again
- EE studies technicalities).

Hope it answers your question, Chen.

	Shlomi Fish

(*) - Let's say you have a product that each week its quality reduces by a
factor of A, where A is a random variable (let's say unified between
[0,1]). How am I supposed to know that the value of A is chosen at the
beginning, and then at the end of year 3 it is equal to (&A()) ** 3?
(sorry for the perl-like notation and "Shehamevin Yavin")

I thought it was for ($i=0;$i<3;$i++) { $result *= &A(); }, and fell for
it. I actually managed to get a result for the second year, but I gave up
trying to do so for the end of the third. The question was a
multiple-choice one, so I eventaully choose two random answers. Anyway, it
took 12 points of my test mark, and with my homework and Bohan (which I
received a 100 in), I got 92. But I felt that I deserved a 100 in that
subject... 

A fellow student (from Aero-Eng) asked the lecturer about it, and that way
managed to solve the test. Another student I talked with, seemed to have 
assumed that was the case from the beginning. And naturally, I was not
going to risk a 92 for a possible 100 by taking the Moed Beith. (although
I know somebody who used to do such things and he has a near 95 average
grade. He's in CS, BTW).

> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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> 
> 
> 
> 

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish        [email-masked] 
Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
Home E-mail:       [email-masked]

The prefix "God Said" has the extraordinary logical property of 
converting any statement that follows it into a true one.

---

From: "Nadav Har'El" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:44:52 +0200

> - EE studies technicalities).

This is another reason I liked the fact that I was studying Math, and not CS.
When I started studying, I believed (perhaps not completely justifiably, but
at least partially) that I already knew about half the subjects they taught
in CS (I knew programming in several languages, automata, compilation theory,
TCP/IP, data structures, theory like turing machines and Goedel's theorem,
etc.). By not officially studying CS I was given a chance to take CS courses
at whatever order I wished, and take only the ones I thought I needed. I also
took one EE course: digital systems (the subject itself was very interesting,
but the coursework was too repetative and boring).

>..

Yes, sometimes tests (and their grades) aren't very fair... I can probably
tell you about a dozen anecdots like that from my studies... But the good
thing is that these things tend to even out: this semester you lost 8 points
for a misunderstanding, next semester the other guy will lose 8 points for
a similar reason. At the end, the GPA of the entire 3 or 4 years tends to
be quite fair.

BTW, when you say A is a random variable, you must define the "merchav
meoraot" measure space, the "parameter" on which A changes. If A is A(t),
where t is time, then your interpration would have been correct. But if A
is A(w), where w is taken in a general measure space unrelated to time,
then the A value is the same at each date (depending on a w that is
supposedly fixed in the beginning). This question does sound very abiguous,
but one point against your interpretation is that you don't normally talk
about a uniform variable on a descrete measure space (you had descrete
"weeks"). What makes more sense if to have a series of random variables
(not one!), A[i] (for week i) that are, say, idd (independent and identically-
distributed). But this was _not_ specified in the question as you told us.

This is another example why I *detest* multiple-choice questions ("mivchan
americai"). In my opionion, when a student inocently misunderstands the
question (and doesn't make it much easier by such a "misunderstanding")
and solves a slightly different question, he should be given at least some
of the points for whatever work he did - even if it wasn't exactly the
original question. This is impossible to do in a multiple-choice question,
when they don't care what you did - only about the result you go to.

-- 
Nadav Har'El                        |    Wednesday, Feb 7 2001, 14 Shevat 5761
[email-masked]             |-----------------------------------------
Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |It's no use crying over spilt milk -- it
http://nadav.harel.org.il           |only makes it salty for the cat.

---

From: Shlomi Fish <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 14:27:08 +0200 (IST)

> but the coursework was too repetative and boring).

In fact that was one of the reasons why I decided to study EE instead of
CS. But I'm not sure I made the right choice, because EE is not only hard,
but not too much exciting either. If you dig programming, I would not
recommend you take it as your first choice. Unless you really want to
become familiar with Electronics. But so far I found my software projects
much more captivating then my studies, so I'm not sure I'm an Electronics
type.

However, I've covered too much ground in my degree to switch to CS or Math
now. I'd rather finish an EE degree, and then _maybe_ take a second degree
in CS or Math. But right now, the bachelor degree is my chief objective.
 
> a similar reason. At the end, the GPA of the entire 3 or 4 years tends to

Oh great, how does the fact that the other guy lost 8 points should make
_me_ happy? I'm not the "samekh la'eid" type. OK, so our GPA will be
roughly proportional to our capability, but it will still be lower than
what it should have been.

> distributed). But this was _not_ specified in the question as you told us.

IINM it was not specified at all, but it could have been A(w). Still, it
is no excuse for a better and more understoodable phrasing. Besides, one
of the least favourable qualities one acquires while studying engineering
is of assuming things that were not specifically said. And "Intro to
Probability Heth" is a course given to Electrical and Aero-space
Engineers.

> when they don't care what you did - only about the result you go to.

I just had a test which was entirely multiple-choice. It went pretty well,
but I'll have to wait to the final score to be sure. I sure hoped I
passed, because it's the second time I'm taking this course. ("Linear
Electronic Circuits").

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish

---

From: Omer Zak <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 14:49:28 +0200 (EET)

> Probability Heth" is a course given to Electrical and Aero-space

About the failure to specify the measure space of the random variable A, I
remember that several exams from my days in the Technion said that if a
question is not fully-specified or ambiguous, the student should make
assumptions as necessary to complete the question, and write the
assumptions down together with the answer to the question.  I did so, and
I had no reason to complain about the grades, which I got at the exams.

This is what good exams are about - they test if the student understood
what he studied.  If he finds missing assumptions in an exam question and
writes those assumptions down, this is another proof that he understands
the stuff.  I can envision lecturers deliberately omitting some
information from a question just to see what kinds of assumptions do
students come up with.  Like addition of "gift questions" to exams and
seeing which students recognize that they are gift questions.
                                             --- Omer
WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html

---

From: Shlomi Fish <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:28:32 +0200 (IST)

> seeing which students recognize that they are gift questions.

Oh well. But you cannot do that with multiple-choice questions.

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish
                                              --- Omer

---

From: Omer Zak <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:53:43 +0200 (EET)

> On Sun, 11 Feb 2001, Omer Zak wrote:

[... Very Wise Words(TM) snipped ...]

> Oh well. But you cannot do that with multiple-choice questions.

I didn't argue about multiple-choice questions.  I discussed open-ended
questiosn (more or less).

About multiple-choice exams, if a question was ambiguous or improperly
parsed and you were screwed by this  - the way is to submit an appeal!

Lecturers try to design test questions to minimize the load of student
appeals (which are a lot of trouble and waste of time to resolve one way
or the other - all of us know that stubborn students can argue a day
about a point even if they are wrong about it :-) ).  So by submitting an
appeal, you accomplish your part of the feedback loop which improves the
exams.
                                             --- Omer
WARNING TO SPAMMERS:  at http://www.zak.co.il/spamwarning.html