Subject: RE: [hackers-il] Re: Scheme in C Indentation Cont.

From: Omer Musaev <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:59:29 +0200

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shlomi Fish [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 8:30 PM
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: [hackers-il] Re: Scheme in C Indentation Cont.
> 
> 
> On 13 Mar 2002, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote:
> 
> > Shlomi Fish <[email-masked]> writes:

(let ((it "paren higlighting"))

> Are you aware of any way to turn it on in gvim? I can go to a matching
> parens with "%", but I don't know how to highlight it as I type it.

:set lisp, of course:)
BTW: why gvim? gvim is not good at interactive programming at all...
)

> Regards,
> 
> 	Shlomi Fish
> 
> 
> > --
> > Oleg Goldshmidt | [email-masked]
> > [Lisp] is the only computer language that is beautiful.
> >                       - Neal Stephenson
> >
> >
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> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Shlomi Fish        [email-masked]
> Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
> Home E-mail:       [email-masked]
> 
> "Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
> "Wait a second - is n a natural number?"
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---

From: Shlomi Fish <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:30:58 +0200 (IST)

> (let ((it "paren higlighting"))

What is the meaning of this LISP-like directive?

> > parens with "%", but I don't know how to highlight it as I type it.

It does not do it in gvim 6.0. Nor is supposed to, according to the help
file.

> BTW: why gvim? gvim is not good at interactive programming at all...

You mean the standard Ctrl+X Ctrl+E and other Emacs/Edwin stuff? Well, my
style is to write my code in gvim, load it there, run it, modify it in
gvim, etc. until it works perfectly and is bug free.

I hate working inside Edwin. As for Emacs, I only use it for ispell-buffer
at the moment, because I don't like it too much. Whenever I tried to
seriously get accustomed to it, there was some obstacle which I could not
quite overcome that made my editing a living hell.

So I'm directing my plea to Muli or Nadav or whoever is proficient enough
in Emacs and would like to give a lecture about it, preferably followed by
a Q&A session.

Best regards,

	Shlomi Fish

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

---

From: mulix <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:41:36 +0200

> in Emacs and would like to give a lecture about it, preferably followed by

not me. emacs is nice, but it's too fluffy a subject. by that i mean
that in order to give a lecture on the intersting stuff, namely elisp
and emacs implementation, i would have to first give an introductory
lecture on emacs in general, and that's just too fluffy. 

after the python lecture, i plan to give a lecture on something
kernelish. i'm considering UML implementation, or perhaphs (open)mosix
process migration. 

[please, learn to trim irrelevant stuff from mail. the mail i'm
replying to had an incredible 63 lines of garbage at the end]
-- 
The ill-formed Orange		
Fails to satisfy the eye:       http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~mulix/ 
Segmentation fault.		http://syscalltrack.sf.net/

---

From: Nimster <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:16:23 +0200

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shlomi Fish" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 11:30 AM
Subject: [hackers-il] gvim for LISP editing [was RE: Re: Scheme in C
Indentation Cont.]

> What is the meaning of this LISP-like directive?

Parentheses Highlighting. I actually use it in C as well, to understand
complex, K&R style while((((foo(bar) > quux) || ...)))) { ; }statements
where the whole body is in the conditional.

http://www.kotelna.sk/vim/html/syntax.html
Here are a bunch of syntax highlighting commands, including many to match
and highlight parentheses. I do not recall my .vimrc, having not seen my
linux box for quite a while, but I do recall it was something fairly simple.
Once I get the chance to check it out, I'll let you know.

http://users.erols.com/astronaut/vim/syntax/lisp.vim.gz
This seems to be a pretty comprehensive :set lisp

> in Emacs and would like to give a lecture about it, preferably followed by

I too got used to vim because that is what I was taught, and found emacs
hard to use ever after. Knowing how emacs is much more powerful, and
supposedly easier to use, I'd love to be in such a lecure as well.

-Nimster

---

From: Shlomi Fish <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:17:24 +0200 (IST)

> lecture on emacs in general, and that's just too fluffy.

Fluffy or not - that's exactly what I want to hear. How to _use_ Emacs
without losing your mind in the process.

> kernelish. i'm considering UML implementation, or perhaphs (open)mosix

I may be able to help a bit with the User-Mode-Linux lecture as I also
experimented with it, when working on IP-Noise. Actually, I thought that a
lecture about the possibilities opened by UML would be a good idea for
one.

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish

---

From: mulix <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:25:18 +0200

> without losing your mind in the process.

C-h t is a good start. reading the FAQ (C-h F) is highly
recommended. knowledge of elisp definitely helps. being able to guess
the names of the functions that do what you want (an acquired skill)
is very important for one's sanity. 

> lecture about the possibilities opened by UML would be a good idea for

if you'd like to give a lecture on how to use uml and what you can do
with it, i could follow it up with a lecture on the design and
implementation of uml, which is something i've been meaning to dive
into for quite some time [0]

[0] haifux was founded with the expressed purpose of 'learning
interesting things by virture of being forced to give lectures on
them'
-- 
The ill-formed Orange		
Fails to satisfy the eye:       http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~mulix/ 
Segmentation fault.		http://syscalltrack.sf.net/

---

From: Adi Stav <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:23:15 +0200

> where the whole body is in the conditional.

Bad style? (Also known as: if it can't be done in a way that requires 
the reader to know by heart the intricacies of K&R operator precedence, 
it's not worth doing.)

---

From: Oleg Goldshmidt <[email-masked]>
Date: 14 Mar 2002 16:08:18 +0200

> lecture on emacs in general, and that's just too fluffy. 

Even more than that, I'd say. Emacs is BIG. If the real purpose is a
lecture on how to "do stuff" in emacs then prerequisites would be
_both_ emacs primitives (navigation etc) and some initial e?lisp. Then
you can turn to the interesting stuff, e.g. "Emacs as an integrated
development environment", covering coding style customization, the
compile and grep facilities, debugging, CVS and GNATS interfaces,
remote editing with efs or ange-ftp, ediff, etags, ctypes, code
generation, whatnot.

A special lecture could be devoted to viper - the vi emulation in
emacs [nudge] ;-)

This is more than one lecture. If we can impose a condition that
everyone interested goes through "C-h t" (the tutorial) and the
_basic_ emacs and elisp info pages, then I could be persuaded to give
a talk about the more interesting stuff, introducing some facilities,
walking through some elisp code examples, and showing how they work. I
mean, stuff that I find useful in everyday work. 

I will need some time to prepare, naturally, and I will need someone
to loan me a laptop running linux to test what I want to show before
the talk.

Another possibility: Everybody goes through C-h t, mulix (or someone
who can be bribed into it) gives an introductory lecture on elisp, and
I cover some tools.