Subject: Book Recommendation: "Feeling Good" by David Burns

From: Shlomi Fish <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:13:21 +0200 (IST)

"Feeling Good" by David A. Burns is a field guide to Cognitive Psychology.
It is meant as a book to help people who tend to get into depressions,
anxieties or similar states, which is quite a common condition among the
populace. I, for once, tend to get into similar conditions and the book
has been a great help in understanding the problem and effectively dealing
with it.

The book starts by explaining the cognitive errors that a person can make:
should statements, the fortune teller error (the shop will probably be
close when I get there), mental filter, etc. Then it explains how such
things are caused by low self-esteem. Self-esteem is how a person
percieves himself. It cannot be increased by achievements, love or
whatever - just by doing cognitive exercises.

Then it goes on to explain the addictions that cause low self-esteem that
plague most people: approval addiction, achievement addiction, love
addiction and perfectionism. It has other chapters on why sadness is not
depression, the chemistry of mood, etc.

All in all, the book is a very good read. I think everyone should read it
from a very simple reason: Memerto Mori (Remember Death). It tells how
people at various stages of their lives (from children to teens, to young
adults, to middle-aged people) started having depressions and anxieties.
Reading the book and practicing what it says is a good way to get rid of
this unpleasant situation or to prevent it altogether. Most suicides occur
due to the individual being depressed.

Cognitive Psychology "makes a lot of sense" and seems like the exercises
proposed are helpful and logical. People act out of self-esteem instead
out of the desire to have sex, which makes explaining most phenomena much
easier.

I can tell from experience that when I was in a depression or an anxiety,
I felt that I was an evil person, that the entire world was damaged
because of me, that I am impotent and worthless, and other things which do
not make sense to someone who knows me. It is an awful feeling that I
don't wish to anybody.

Insanity stems from much the same reasons as simple depressions and
depressed individuals exhibit similar phenomena as people who are mentally
ill. Furthermore, even mentally ill people can be effectively treated
using Cognitive Psychology.

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish        [email-masked]
Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
Home E-mail:       [email-masked]

"Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
"Wait a second - is n a natural number?"

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From: Orna Agmon <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 17:52:45 +0200 (IST)

> has been a great help in understanding the problem and effectively dealing

The approach Dr Burns is taking is rather redical. He claims that all 
feelings come from thoughts, and that by changing the thoughts you can 
change your feelings. He claims that this approach comes in contradiction 
to the popular appoach.

I am not saying the book is not good, (it is very good actually) but-

Nowadays, many psychologists believe that there is a two-sided feedback 
between emotions and thoughts. One cannot solve all his/her problems by 
following this book. Be warned.    

-- 
Orna.   |  http://tx.technion.ac.il/~agmon

A cat has claws at the end of its paws.    
A sentence has a pause at the end of its clause.

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From: Shlomi Fish <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:06:16 +0200 (IST)

Replying to myself I should add that according to Burns, every depression
and anxiety is unnecessary. Injury, loss of a loved one - even a terminal
illness - do not necessisate getting into depression.

He even adds that some people who were held as prisoners in concentration
camps did not lose their spirits and even experienced spiritual and
intellectual enlightenings.

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish

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From: Shlomi Fish <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 23:13:23 +0200 (IST)

> following this book. Be warned.

That sounds logical. My feelings affect other thoughts. But by making some
cognitive exercises, I can eventually feel better and so have better
thoughts.

The book is good, but I also found the Neo-Tech Advantages:

http://www.neo-tech.com/advantages/

To be a nice way to rid oneself of the philosophical errors that guide
his life and make himself or herself unable to live to his full potential.
They were truly enlightening.

I also found other sources thought-revolving:

1. ESR's "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" series.
2. John Allen Paulos' Innumeracy (sort of a very limited Neo-Tech, but
still nice)

And naturally am influenced by many little things and opinions I
constantly hear.

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish

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From: "Nadav Har'El" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 00:04:48 +0200

> intellectual enlightenings.

A few years ago I was in London, and went to a very special concert in the
Royal Albert Hall.

All the pieces played in the concert were composed by prisoners in Nazi
prisoner camps, concentration camps, and so on, under the worst possible
conditions. One vocal piece was a popular song in the French resistence.
Another extremely moving piece was one composed by a British (if I remember
correctly) soldier in a Nazi POW camp in horrible conditions in a very
harsh winter; The only instruments avaiable at the camp was a violin
with some missing strings and a half-functioning piano (again, if I remember
correctly), so he had to compose music especially for these conditions.
The result was very moving - if it brought tears to my eyes, when I was
sitting in a cozy booth in the Royal Albert Hall, I can't imagine how the
prisoners themselves must have felt at the original event itself.

But then again, only a rare breed of people thrive under conditions of
overwhelming stress and distress (such as seeing your family murdered).
I doubt that reading a self-help book can change that.

-- 
Nadav Har'El                        |      Tuesday, Nov 12 2002, 8 Kislev 5763
[email-masked]             |-----------------------------------------
Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |"Mommy! The garbage man is here!" "Well,
http://nadav.harel.org.il           |tell him we don't want any!"- Groucho Marx

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From: "Nadav Har'El" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 00:25:58 +0200

On Tue, Nov 12, 2002, Shlomi Fish wrote about "[hackers-il] Re: Book Recommendation: "Feeling Good" by David Burns":
>...

The biggest problem of trying to better yourself through a book (in this
case psychologically, but this can also apply to other fields) is how
to maintain your newfound insights and keep your new lifestyle without
falling back to the old in a few days.

This is certainly not easy. In fact, for most people it is close to
impossible. A book's effect wears off, and you return to your old self
unless you continuously reenforce the new behavior by exercises, therapy
sessions, or whatever.

For example, immediately after reading a book about the human mind with a
Zen Budhist twist, I was one day able to clear my mind of all thoughts
and have complete control over my mind while still moving around and doing
things (it's hard to explain...). This was amazing. But I was never able to
repeat that experience, and certainly not make it a permanent feature of
my life.

> 2. John Allen Paulos' Innumeracy (sort of a very limited Neo-Tech, but

The two books that probably influenced my thinking the most are:
 1. "The Unix Programming Environment" (Kernighan and Pike)
 2. "The Selfish Gene" (Richard Dawkins)

But there are many others that affected my thinking (I think we tried to
make a list of great books once :))

-- 
Nadav Har'El                        |    Wednesday, Nov 13 2002, 8 Kislev 5763
[email-masked]             |-----------------------------------------
Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |If glory comes after death, I'm not in a
http://nadav.harel.org.il           |hurry. (Latin proverb)

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From: Shlomi Fish <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:23:04 +0200 (IST)

On Wed, 13 Nov 2002, Nadav Har'El wrote:

> The result was very moving - ifit brought tears to my eyes, when I was

One self-help probably can't help. But having an integrated and immune to
attachs, philosophy can. Of course, this requires a lot of mental effort
and even directing your actions towards it. Most people are very far from
this state, and so when under stress the ones who wish to harm them can
exploit their "nekudoth turpa" and cause them to deteriorate.

But it is not necessary for a man to be such one. I can't testify that
Neo-Tech has prepared me enough to handle all such situations. (I never
been in one and hope not to be - because it's still not pleasant). But I
observed that many people unnecessarily complicate their lives out of
following the path of least resistance instead of choosing an objective
integrated philosophy and life style.

"Be Prepared." - This is a very good advice.

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish

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From: guy keren <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 01:22:19 +0200 (IST)

> falling back to the old in a few days.

i think you could observe that the first condition for "self improvement" 
is the will to improve one's self. i don't think that people improve 
just because they read the 'right book'. they happened to read this book 
when the terms were suiteable for a change ("bashlu hatna'im") - so 
they'll keep ever liking the book, and recommend it to others - when the 
book was probably secondary in importance. and it could have been a book, 
a song, a movie, a person, a drug, a world event, etc. and it could also 
have been just thinking - with little direct external influence - that 
made one want to change something about their lives.

> repeat that experience, and certainly not make it a permanent feature of

i think shlomi was refering to pulling one-self from "deep down" to an 
"ok" state - not more subtle improvements as you are refering to here.

-- 
guy

"For world domination - press 1,
 or dial 0, and please hold, for the creator." -- nob o. dy

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From: Shlomi Fish <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 06:14:39 +0200 (IST)

> made one want to change something about their lives.

I'm not sure it's entirely correct. You see: I recommend the book to other
people who want to improve themselves. Reading the book gave me practical
tools and insights for leading a better life. I was ready to change my
life, but I also found the book itself very good.

> "ok" state - not more subtle improvements as you are refering to here.

Actually, my story is a bit more complicated. I used to have depressions
and states of euphoria from the 9th grade onwards. Towards my army
enrollment, I entered a very hard anxiety. A psychologist my mother found
me told me I was in a depression. I'll always remember him for that,
because until then I did not know what those states where, and how to
define them. I called them "tekufot" or whatever.

Now, I usually only become euphoric, in which case I have a lot of
inspiration, and can still usually concentrate on doing things I like to
do. It's still an anxiety in disguise, though. But now I'm working on
getting the approval addiction out of my system, which will take some
time, because I am very sensitive to what other people think of me.[1]

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish

[1] - It is impractical to expect people not to hurt other people's
feelings. People get hurt all the time from all kind of remarks, some
of them perfectly positive. Only a person himself can make sure he is not
affected by the way other people commented about him.

This does not mean a person should be purposely tactless or so. Tact is a
Good Thing<tm>.

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From: Orna Agmon <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 23:03:37 +0200 (IST)

> falling back to the old in a few days.

This is why Burns recommends, in the beginning of his book, to read the 
whole book every month, a certain chapter every week, and the chapter 
you are currently practicing - every day.

This way, at least you do not forget. But I guess nothing equals the 
impact that a fresh thought has on one's feelings.