Subject: Unix bugs

From: Chen Shapira <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 12:28:51 +0200

> While comparing carrying "I Hate Niggers" sign to putting \ in your 
> file's name is good, comparing UNIX to Harlem is superb! It is ready
> to pounce on you for the first sign of weakness, without mercy. 
> Let's get rid of the crime -- IOW, fix the bugs which makes the
> whole world cry (correctly) "UNIX SUX!".

Here's a list of bugs in various unix programs that I would be grateful if
anyone fixes:

1. Debian's aptget can and does ask for CD's to be switched during
installation. I would be gratefull if anyone gets it to search for all the
packages it needs in disk 1, before moving to disk 2, so it wouldn't ask for
disk 1 again.

2. Sawfish: Most software has this usefull convention, that when a long list
appears, pressing a letter, jumps to the item that starts with this letter.
This is especially useful when a long list appears and you hate scrolling

3. Sawfish again: How about previewing themes? or atleast letting me see a
list of things this theme changes?

4. Keyboard bindings: given that we unix people are die-hard keyboard users,
the lack of keyboard support in UI is appalling. If the bindings are
compatble with defacto standards where applicable, it's even better.

Just my daily crop :-)

Thanks,
Chen.

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From: Moshe Zadka <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:00:22 +0200 (IST)

> compatble with defacto standards where applicable, it's even better.

I have perfect keyboard bindings in my UI.
--
Moshe Zadka <[email-masked]> -- 95855124
http://advogato.org/person/moshez

---

From: "Nadav Har'El" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:07:35 +0200

> packages it needs in disk 1, before moving to disk 2, so it wouldn't ask for

Redhat's installation program already does this. Obviously, this is not a
"unix", or even "linux" bug - it's probably a meaningless Debian bug that
they can fix themselves.

> list of things this theme changes?

How about posting these requests to the sawfish mailing list (or whatever)?
I doubt many sawfish developers hang around this mailing list ;)

> compatble with defacto standards where applicable, it's even better.

What program are you talking about? Many programs already have keyboard
bindings, but you're right that most programs don't do this all the way,
or in some cases even half the way.

In my opinion, even in applications with GUI you should be able to do
everything (except stuff like drawing) without touching the mouse. You
should be able to:
 1. Access menus by pressing Alt+firstletter and then use the cursor keys
    or underlined letters ("Mnemonics" in Motif nomenclemature) to choose
    and run a menu function.
 2. Move the "focus" between parts of the user interface using tab.
 3. When the "in focus" (see above) part is a scroll bar, or menu, or whatever,
    it should be controllable with the cursor.
 4. Additional "Keyboard shortcuts" should be provided, e.g., ^Z does the
    Edit->Undo menu function, or "Page Down" scrolls the display.

Toolkits should make it natural for application writers to support these
4 points, and indeed Motif, Tk, Qt and Gtk all do it (of course, ignorant
programmers can still do it wrong even with these toolkits - see for example
what Netscape did).

Ideally, the window manager should also make it easier to retire your mouse,
by letting you:
 1. Move between windows using the keyboard (e.g., like Windows' Alt-Tab)
 2. Use Window manager menus and functions using only the mouse.
 3. Let you warp (move) the mouse cursor and perform mouse clicks using the
    keyboard - for that rare application that doesn't have keyboard bindings.
   
Of course, this is all about keyboard bindings in the GUI - not the
(completely diffrent concept of) command line interface. The latter is
also important, in my opinion.

-- 
Nadav Har'El                        |    Tuesday, Nov 21 2000, 23 Heshvan 5761
[email-masked]             |-----------------------------------------
Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Microchips: what's left at the bottom of
http://nadav.harel.org.il           |the bag when it reaches you.

---

From: Omer Mussaev <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 15:21:32 +0200

> I have perfect keyboard bindings in my UI.

(Moshe probably means that he uses command line only and therefore all he needs is
there. There
is a possibility that he uses command line interface to python as the only ui and
therefore all he needs is
there.)

Well, if _that_ is the way to fix bugs than Unix is probably the best operating
system in the world.

---

From: Omer Mussaev <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 15:22:42 +0200

> list of things this theme changes?

The closest thing is temporary  "applying" themes, available via gnomecc.

---

From: Moshe Zadka <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 14:32:23 +0200 (IST)

On Tue, 21 Nov 2000, Omer Mussaev wrote:

> Well, if _that_ is the way to fix bugs than Unix is probably the best
> operating system in the world.

No. It means some bugs in some programs on UNIX don't bother me since I
don't use them.
--
Moshe Zadka <[email-masked]> -- 95855124
http://advogato.org/person/moshez