Subject: YA Rule of Open-Source Programming - ?

From: Shlomi Fish <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 03:43:20 +0200 (IST)

Here goes:

"No concept is proven until it withstands the test of the market."

This is not really O-S specific, but I happen to like it a lot. What I
would like to know is how to say it in Latin... (and don't ask why)

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish        [email-masked]
Home Page:         http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
Home E-mail:       [email-masked]

"Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
"Wait a second - is n a natural number?"

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From: Oleg Goldshmidt <[email-masked]>
Date: 17 Jan 2002 10:13:39 +0200

> "No concept is proven until it withstands the test of the market."

Was it Don Knuth who said, "i have not tested the code, I have only 
proven it correct"?

-- 
Oleg Goldshmidt | [email-masked] 
"If it ain't broken, it has not got enough features yet."

---

From: Shlomi Fish <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 13:17:56 +0200 (IST)

> Was it Don Knuth who said, "i have not tested the code, I have only

I believe he did. (or at least Muli quoted him saying that.) However, note
that my intention was the exact opposite of what Knuth said. What I imply
is that until your idea or design or whatever becomes common-place and
many people use it, it's pretty much pointless to claim it is a succesful
one.

Let's reflect on Haskell again. OK - it's a good language. Maybe even
better than Perl or Python or whatever, at least in some cases for some
people. But unless someone takes upon himself the effort of making the
Haskell world truly useful for random Joe Hacker, it will remain a
language which is mostly of interest to researchers and people looking for
a new and unorthodox language to learn.

Linux withstood the test of the market, so did XFree86, gcc, perl5, python
, Tcl/Tk and many other important software packages. There are more minor
ones and those that are more obscure and less useful that also withstood
the test of the market and filled their own niche.

Naturally, all of those are examples just from the O-S world. There are
many others in real-life. My point is that the amount of effort that has
to be taken to become a popular program that is used by a lot of people,
is what makes a piece of software (or a tool, a car, or any other service)
the great piece that it is.

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish

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From: mulix <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 13:49:58 +0200 (IST)

> "No concept is proven until it withstands the test of the market."

errrr, what?

why is a concept that the market deemed correct proven to be anything
except deemed correct by the market?

microsoft windows, need i say more?
-- 
mulix

http://vipe.technion.ac.il/~mulix/
http://syscalltrack.sf.net/

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From: mulix <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:04:47 +0200 (IST)

> I believe he did. (or at least Muli quoted him saying that.) However, note

google to the rescue:
http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/faq.html

and the exact quotation is: ``Beware of bugs in the above code; I have
only proved it correct, not tried it.''
-- 
mulix

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From: Shlomi Fish <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 12:02:21 +0200 (IST)

> microsoft windows, need i say more?

By proven I do not mean "The Best"<tm>. I just mean proven. Let me
explain:

If you create a new program, library or whatever which you think is
useful, it still does not mean it is indeed so. Only when a lot of people
start downloading it (or alternatively buying) it, and using it, you can
say that it is a good and complete piece of software.

That is the case for Windows 95/98/ME, which most of the world now uses
on their computers. I agree that it basically a very stupid and primitive
OS, but it fits the needs of most people, so essentially MS' hunch that
people would like to use it has been proven. Like I said, it's not the
best OS to run on your home computer, but it's a proven concept.

That is also the case for Linux. Again, there are a much smaller number of
Linux installations than of Windows 95/98/ME. But many people swear by it,
and use it for desktops, workstations or servers. So, it has its hinch and
is thus, a proven concept.

My point is that one can whine endlessly about how Linux is a superior
desktop OS than Windows 95/98, or how Haskell is superior to Perl, Python, or
any other language. That may be the case. However, in order to prove it, you
need to make sure it gains more popularity. And usually, the reason why
something is not popular enough is because of mistakes or loose ends in
its design, philosophy, marketing, license or pricing.

I hope I made myself clearer.

Regards,

	Shlomi Fish