| messa4 | hi rindolf | Apr 04 08:55 |
|---|---|---|
| rindolf | messa4: hi, welcome to ##English . | Apr 04 08:55 |
| rindolf | messa4: where we discuss everything and anything - mostly in English. | Apr 04 08:56 |
| messa4 | whats hypersexual? haha never heard this term before | Apr 04 08:56 |
| rindolf | messa4: a hypersexual is someone with a large sex drive. | Apr 04 08:56 |
| messa4 | haha | Apr 04 08:56 |
| rindolf | messa4: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypersexuality | Apr 04 08:56 |
| messa4 | thats good. that means that u are healthy male | Apr 04 08:56 |
| rindolf | messa4: yes. | Apr 04 08:56 |
| messa4 | totally normal. thats why ppl should get married. otherwise u will go insane haha | Apr 04 08:57 |
| rindolf | messa4: I think I hit second puberty now at close to 36. | Apr 04 08:57 |
| rindolf | messa4: my first one was at 18. | Apr 04 08:57 |
| rindolf | messa4: heh. | Apr 04 08:57 |
| messa4 | i think that most man are like that | Apr 04 08:58 |
| messa4 | including me | Apr 04 08:58 |
| messa4 | so bassicly | Apr 04 08:58 |
| messa4 | if u get job u should be married hehe | Apr 04 08:58 |
| messa4 | for me lack of job is only reason why im single for example. money is the key | Apr 04 08:59 |
| rindolf | messa4: I have a story in mind about the guy who wrote http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecclesiastes , whom after writing it (while being young and not-yet-married) becomes the talk of his city (= Damascus), and every single woman there wants him for herself, which drives him mad. | Apr 04 08:59 |
| messa4 | why mad?! :D | Apr 04 08:59 |
| messa4 | i would be happy haha | Apr 04 09:00 |
| rindolf | messa4: thing is - it was one of the best pieces of philosophy that Damascus has seen for years. | Apr 04 09:00 |
| rindolf | messa4: well, he is Jewish and does not want to have sex with virgins. | Apr 04 09:00 |
| rindolf | messa4: which is forbidden. | Apr 04 09:00 |
| messa4 | WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAt | Apr 04 09:00 |
| messa4 | WHAAAT | Apr 04 09:01 |
| messa4 | so how they loose their virignity?! | Apr 04 09:01 |
| rindolf | messa4: after getting married to a virgin. | Apr 04 09:01 |
| rindolf | messa4: and having sex with her. | Apr 04 09:01 |
| rindolf | messa4: it's even more complicated for a Priest. | Apr 04 09:01 |
| rindolf | But he is from the tribe of Jehudah. | Apr 04 09:02 |
| messa4 | im cofuzed | Apr 04 09:02 |
| rindolf | messa4: his family was Jewish as far as he could tell. | Apr 04 09:02 |
| messa4 | so he dont want to sleep with virgins AT ALL? or just BEFORE MARRIAGE? | Apr 04 09:02 |
| rindolf | messa4: just before marriage. | Apr 04 09:02 |
| messa4 | ahh then its ok | Apr 04 09:02 |
| messa4 | so why not just marry and divorce like thousands of times haha | Apr 04 09:03 |
| messa4 | if every single woman wants him | Apr 04 09:03 |
| messa4 | i would do that :d | Apr 04 09:03 |
| messa4 | you got divorces in judaism? | Apr 04 09:03 |
| mollies | rindolf, hi | Apr 04 09:04 |
| rindolf | messa4: anyway, eventually he goes to the house of his friends, who are Greek, with whom he made the bet of being able to write there. | Apr 04 09:05 |
| rindolf | messa4: and he meets there their younger sister. | Apr 04 09:05 |
| rindolf | mollies: hi. | Apr 04 09:05 |
| rindolf | messa4: we have divorces, yes. | Apr 04 09:05 |
| messa4 | rindolf: tell me more. what he do with that sister hahaah. thats neat story | Apr 04 09:06 |
| rindolf | messa4: he can also marry more than one girl (up to reason) but he wants to marry a Jewess (so he'll have Jewish children) | Apr 04 09:06 |
| messa4 | thats intresting | Apr 04 09:06 |
| messa4 | i never know that jews can have more then one wife | Apr 04 09:06 |
| messa4 | knew* | Apr 04 09:06 |
| rindolf | messa4: this sister resembles my own, and is quite oblivious to social norms. | Apr 04 09:06 |
| rindolf | messa4: well, they no longer can usually. | Apr 04 09:07 |
| messa4 | but i mean from religion perspective. not law | Apr 04 09:07 |
| rindolf | messa4: some Jews are given explicit permission for that, but it's an exception. | Apr 04 09:07 |
| messa4 | permission by who? | Apr 04 09:07 |
| rindolf | messa4: yes, the Bible allows that. | Apr 04 09:07 |
| messa4 | thats so intersting | Apr 04 09:07 |
| rindolf | messa4: permission by the Rabinnat. | Apr 04 09:07 |
| messa4 | i never ever heard about it before. total ignorance | Apr 04 09:08 |
| rindolf | messa4: one of the European Rabbis decided to prevent polygamy. | Apr 04 09:08 |
| rindolf | messa4: which was accepted globally eventually. | Apr 04 09:08 |
| rindolf | messa4: bigamy is one wife too many. | Apr 04 09:08 |
| messa4 | but how one rabbi can change the meaning of bible[or whatever is used for this law]? | Apr 04 09:09 |
| messa4 | thats one thing that i hate about modern religions: ppl are modyfing it | Apr 04 09:09 |
| messa4 | unacepptable for me | Apr 04 09:09 |
| rindolf | messa4: anyway, so this sister, which I have | Apr 04 09:10 |
| nicknamed Horkeneah, sort of empathises with him, and tells him that she thought that the Scroll of Qoheleth was "allright' and better than the usual crap. | ||
| rindolf | messa4: thing is: they talked to her as a baby, and taught her Greek and Aramic and she also learned to read and write, and is super-intelligent, and stuff like that. | Apr 04 09:11 |
| rindolf | messa4: and she's become a persona non-grata in several of the schools of philosophy in the city, for criticising what was said there. | Apr 04 09:11 |
| rindolf | messa4: and as it turns out she is actually Damascus' Alpha Female. | Apr 04 09:12 |
| rindolf | She had many suitors who proposed to her, but she rejected them all. | Apr 04 09:12 |
| rindolf | he asks her if she's a Lesbian, and she tells him that's not up her alley. | Apr 04 09:12 |
| messa4 | WAIT. whats "Scroll of Qohelet" | Apr 04 09:13 |
| rindolf | And then he (= Joseph, the guy who wrote Ecclesiastes) suddenly falls in love with her and asks her if she loves him. | Apr 04 09:13 |
| messa4 | and what she said? | Apr 04 09:13 |
| rindolf | So she tells him that she doesn't but she's really infatuated with him, and thinks the scroll was awesome, and that she also thinks that love in marriage is overrated. | Apr 04 09:14 |
| rindolf | messa4: Qoheleth is the Hebrew name for Ecclesiastes. It is the original name. | Apr 04 09:14 |
| rindolf | messa4: the story is called “So who the hell was Qoheleth?” | Apr 04 09:15 |
| rindolf | And it's also the opening story. | Apr 04 09:15 |
| rindolf | And it's also the opening line. | Apr 04 09:15 |
| messa4 | ok | Apr 04 09:16 |
| messa4 | what she said?! | Apr 04 09:16 |
| messa4 | so she said NO in general? | Apr 04 09:16 |
| messa4 | and what he said then? | Apr 04 09:16 |
| rindolf | He's getting asked that by a fellow Jew, who tells him that writing such good work of philosophy, although blasphemous was a huge "respect" for the Jews. | Apr 04 09:16 |
| messa4 | please dont tell me thats the end of story | Apr 04 09:17 |
| rindolf | messa4: no, she said yes. | Apr 04 09:17 |
| rindolf | messa4: it's not. | Apr 04 09:17 |
| messa4 | ahh ok :) | Apr 04 09:17 |
| messa4 | so they got married without love? | Apr 04 09:17 |
| rindolf | messa4: anyway, she tells him that her family was full of infidelity and outer-marriage relationships and other stuff like that - all because of love. | Apr 04 09:17 |
| messa4 | thats kinda ok if they are religious | Apr 04 09:17 |
| messa4 | ok. i see where this is going | Apr 04 09:18 |
| rindolf | messa4: while in his side, people did not expect to remain in love forever, and just stayed married. | Apr 04 09:18 |
| rindolf | messa4: so it works better that way. | Apr 04 09:18 |
| rindolf | messa4: eventually, she falls in love with him too. | Apr 04 09:18 |
| messa4 | that might be true actually | Apr 04 09:18 |
| messa4 | haha | Apr 04 09:18 |
| rindolf | messa4: anyway, she converts to Judaism and then they get married. | Apr 04 09:18 |
| messa4 | so why u think that love is evil?! | Apr 04 09:19 |
| rindolf | And then they travel to Alexandria. | Apr 04 09:19 |
| messa4 | ohh shit its not the end?! : | Apr 04 09:19 |
| rindolf | messa4: well, it's more like an elaborate joke. | Apr 04 09:19 |
| messa4 | ok im lisetning | Apr 04 09:19 |
| rindolf | messa4: the Love == Evil and Evil == Love. | Apr 04 09:19 |
| rindolf | messa4: well, most of the story is their trip through Phoenicia, Haifa and the Carmel heights, and later on Jaffa. | Apr 04 09:20 |
| rindolf | messa4: she becomes ill at Jaffa, and Joseph treats her (he's also a doctor) | Apr 04 09:20 |
| messa4 | but they got married, in love AND in religous way. so where is the evil? | Apr 04 09:20 |
| rindolf | messa4: and her life is spared. | Apr 04 09:20 |
| messa4 | Jaffa - like oranges? :D | Apr 04 09:20 |
| rindolf | messa4: that's something eles, unrelated. | Apr 04 09:20 |
| rindolf | messa4: yes, the older city south of Tel Aviv. | Apr 04 09:21 |
| rindolf | messa4: are you European? | Apr 04 09:21 |
| rindolf | messa4: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa | Apr 04 09:21 |
| messa4 | i know its a city. but its very famous for Jaffa oranges | Apr 04 09:21 |
| rindolf | messa4: yes. | Apr 04 09:21 |
| rindolf | messa4: not sure they grow a lot of oranges there any more. | Apr 04 09:21 |
| messa4 | i never knew that its in israel | Apr 04 09:21 |
| rindolf | Jaffa oranges is a brand. | Apr 04 09:21 |
| rindolf | messa4: heh. | Apr 04 09:21 |
| messa4 | you know whole palestine-israel thing issues :) | Apr 04 09:22 |
| messa4 | we are kinda behind here | Apr 04 09:22 |
| rindolf | messa4: Israel now imports some citrus fruit because it's cheaper to import them, because those from Israel cost more than the imports. | Apr 04 09:22 |
| rindolf | messa4: behind? | Apr 04 09:22 |
| messa4 | behind with all news | Apr 04 09:23 |
| messa4 | things like map of israel | Apr 04 09:23 |
| messa4 | etc | Apr 04 09:23 |
| messa4 | its changed a lot in past 40 years | Apr 04 09:23 |
| messa4 | but nvm | Apr 04 09:24 |
| messa4 | its shame that u have to import oranges. goverment should substitude them | Apr 04 09:24 |
| rindolf | messa4: well, that's life. | Apr 04 09:26 |
| rindolf | messa4: well, not sure about Oranges, but we have many other citrus fruit. | Apr 04 09:27 |
| rindolf | messa4: what do you mean by "substitude" them? | Apr 04 09:27 |
| messa4 | goverment should pay the farmers some premium. for example 1$ per 5kg of oranges | Apr 04 09:28 |
| messa4 | so they could compete with prices of cyprus/whatever oranges | Apr 04 09:28 |
| messa4 | most farmers in european union are getting paid by goverment in such way | Apr 04 09:28 |
| messa4 | otherwise we would be flooded by cheap food from china or whatever | Apr 04 09:29 |
| messa4 | and farmers would bankrupt | Apr 04 09:29 |
| rindolf | messa4: anyway, the story will have a lot of "into-the-future" stuff like the Arabian warfare, cognitive therapy of treating depression, and a Jewish priest they meet in Jaffa who had been practising throwing knives, and throws one a centimetre from Joseph. | Apr 04 09:30 |
| messa4 | haha. im waiting for my own CBT therapy haha | Apr 04 09:30 |
| rindolf | messa4: which causes Horkenah->Rivkah to first feel afraid, and then lustful. | Apr 04 09:30 |
| messa4 | whats Horkenah? | Apr 04 09:31 |
| rindolf | messa4: that's the name of the girl he marries. | Apr 04 09:31 |
| messa4 | ahh ok :D | Apr 04 09:31 |
| rindolf | messa4: his sister in effect - of Greek descent. | Apr 04 09:31 |
| messa4 | anyway. it might be grt be great story but its a lottlebit too complex for average people i think :) | Apr 04 09:31 |
| messa4 | be great* | Apr 04 09:32 |
| messa4 | littlebit* | Apr 04 09:32 |
| rindolf | messa4: I think one reason the Jewish scriptures survived intact was that every Jewish scholar was required to memorise the whole thing. | Apr 04 09:32 |
| rindolf | Like we now have with git. | Apr 04 09:32 |
| rindolf | messa4: yeah, maybe. | Apr 04 09:32 |
| mollies | rindolf, support your economy, buy local fruits :P | Apr 04 09:32 |
| rindolf | messa4: I have some more accessible stuff at http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/stories/ | Apr 04 09:33 |
| rindolf | mollies: heh. | Apr 04 09:33 |
| messa4 | rindolf: i always though that jews have their old scriptures preserved. | Apr 04 09:33 |
| rindolf | mollies: I drink quite a lot of Orange Juice and lemonade. | Apr 04 09:33 |
| messa4 | mollies: hehe yeah | Apr 04 09:33 |
| rindolf | messa4: we do. Most of them at least. | Apr 04 09:33 |
| rindolf | messa4: some of them were lost. | Apr 04 09:33 |
| mollies | i don't drink orange juice but i eat oranges | Apr 04 09:33 |
| rindolf | messa4: there are much fewer corpora in Hebrew, Aramaic, Persian, etc. than in Greek or Latin. | Apr 04 09:34 |
| rindolf | messa4: in part because the Christians copies Greek and Latin all across Europe which was never united under a single reign. | Apr 04 09:35 |
| rindolf | messa4: while the Near East suffered a lot of destruction. | Apr 04 09:35 |
| messa4 | rindolf: tell me more about marriage. So jews can marry multiple woman if they have permission yes? that permission is from local priest/scholar or its like some top scholar in country? | Apr 04 09:35 |
| binders | there's the perseus corpora for greek, latin and arabic | Apr 04 09:35 |
| rindolf | messa4: well, it depends if you're a religious Jew. | Apr 04 09:36 |
| messa4 | religous | Apr 04 09:36 |
| messa4 | not by the law but religion | Apr 04 09:36 |
| rindolf | messa4: and even religious Jewish men can have affairs with divorcees. | Apr 04 09:36 |
| rindolf | messa4: OK. | Apr 04 09:36 |
| rindolf | messa4: in general, you can only marry one woman at a time. | Apr 04 09:36 |
| rindolf | messa4: but there are very few excpetions. | Apr 04 09:37 |
| messa4 | for example? | Apr 04 09:37 |
| rindolf | messa4: the Jewish religion often discriminates against men or against women. | Apr 04 09:37 |
| messa4 | rindolf: thats ok. just tell me. i want to know facts no- no judgment :) | Apr 04 09:38 |
| rindolf | messa4: OK. | Apr 04 09:39 |
| rindolf | messa4: I'm not an authority about the Jewish Halachah. | Apr 04 09:40 |
| rindolf | I mean the Jewish tradition. | Apr 04 09:40 |
| messa4 | thats ok. just tell me what u know | Apr 04 09:40 |
| rindolf | messa4: the English wikipedia has pretty good coverage. | Apr 04 09:40 |
| rindolf | messa4: I cannot tell you everything. | Apr 04 09:40 |
| messa4 | just tell me those few exceptions that u know :) | Apr 04 09:40 |
| rindolf | messa4: some men and women have dedicated their life to study Judaism, and there are still things they don't know. | Apr 04 09:40 |
| rindolf | messa4: OK. | Apr 04 09:41 |
| rindolf | messa4: the son or daughter of a Jewish woman is Jewish. | Apr 04 09:41 |
| rindolf | messa4: on the other hand, the son or daughter of a Jewish man is not necessarily one. | Apr 04 09:41 |
| rindolf | messa4: and it gets wackier with adoptions. | Apr 04 09:42 |
| rindolf | According to the Jewish tradition, a Jewess must not give away her offspring. | Apr 04 09:42 |
| rindolf | And it's hard to know what happens if she does. | Apr 04 09:42 |
| rindolf | messa4: there's also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sofer , which were once considered verboten for females. | Apr 04 09:43 |
| rindolf | messa4: moreover, homosexual intercourse among men is forbidden in the Bible, but not among two females. | Apr 04 09:44 |
| messa4_ | got disconnected | Apr 04 09:44 |
| rindolf | messa4_: so did I , heh. | Apr 04 09:44 |
| messa4_ | what u typed after "And it's hard to know what happens if she does." yes u got too | Apr 04 09:44 |
| rindolf | messa4_: <rindolf> messa4: there's also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sofer , which were once considered verboten for females. | Apr 04 09:45 |
| rindolf | * messa4_ (pawelsz@faeroes.sdf.org) has joined | Apr 04 09:45 |
| rindolf | <rindolf> messa4: moreover, homosexual intercourse among men is forbidden in the Bible, but not among two females. | Apr 04 09:45 |
| rindolf | messa4_: BTW, a woman can become a Rav. | Apr 04 09:45 |
| messa4_ | haha thats crazy | Apr 04 09:45 |
| messa4_ | whats "rav" ? | Apr 04 09:45 |
| rindolf | messa4_: a Rav is a Jew who can hold ceremonies. | Apr 04 09:45 |
| rindolf | messa4_: like marry people, etc. | Apr 04 09:45 |
| messa4_ | like rabbie? | Apr 04 09:46 |
| rindolf | messa4_: a Rabbi is something else - it's a community leader. | Apr 04 09:46 |
| messa4_ | ok | Apr 04 09:46 |
| rindolf | messa4_: though these terms are confused. | Apr 04 09:46 |
| messa4_ | but nvm. so what about polygamy? in what sitations its allowed | Apr 04 09:46 |
| rindolf | messa4_: a RAv is something like an M.A. in Judaism - requires a lot of study. | Apr 04 09:46 |
| messa4_ | rindolf: for me its totally new. i never heard about Rav before. like most ppl in europe propably :| | Apr 04 09:47 |
| rindolf | messa4_: my friend's wife became a Rav and got an M.A. in the process. | Apr 04 09:47 |
| rindolf | messa4_: OK. | Apr 04 09:47 |
| messa4_ | but lets go back to polygamy | Apr 04 09:47 |
| mollies | lol | Apr 04 09:47 |
| messa4_ | without all background stories hehe | Apr 04 09:47 |
| rindolf | messa4_: there isn't a lot of work as a Rav, so she was looking for a job. | Apr 04 09:47 |
| rindolf | messa4_: OK. | Apr 04 09:48 |
| rindolf | messa4_: well, a woman cannot have more than one husband. | Apr 04 09:48 |
| rindolf | messa4_: and the child of a married woman from her non-husband cannot be married. | Apr 04 09:48 |
| mollies | rindolf, i dont think polygamy has ever been allowed | Apr 04 09:48 |
| rindolf | mollies: it was. | Apr 04 09:49 |
| messa4_ | cant be married by NO ONE? | Apr 04 09:49 |
| mollies | but anyways, i need some zzz | Apr 04 09:49 |
| rindolf | mollies: in the Near East. | Apr 04 09:49 |
| rindolf | mollies: King Solomon had 200 wives and 800 mistresses. | Apr 04 09:49 |
| mollies | rindolf, people do it, but it's now allowed in the OT | Apr 04 09:49 |
| mollies | now/not | Apr 04 09:49 |
| mollies | night | Apr 04 09:49 |
| rindolf | mollies: OT? | Apr 04 09:49 |
| rindolf | mollies: night. | Apr 04 09:49 |
| Maxdamantus | Old trout | Apr 04 09:50 |
| cntrational | g'night mollies | Apr 04 09:50 |
| Maxdamantus | testiment* | Apr 04 09:50 |
| rindolf | Some states in .us now allow polygamy due to Mormonism. | Apr 04 09:50 |
| rindolf | Maxdamantus: testament. | Apr 04 09:50 |
| *smgs808 (Smorgasboa@unaffiliated/smorgasboard) has joined | Apr 04 09:50 | |
| messa4_ | mollies: im asking from ONLY religious perspective [not by the law of common life now] in what situations polygamy is allowed in judaism | Apr 04 09:50 |
| Maxdamantus | Yeah, that. | Apr 04 09:50 |
| smgs808 | .g | Apr 04 09:50 |
| la_fen | smgs808: .g what? | Apr 04 09:50 |
| smgs808 | .g 1234567891 http://indianrail.gov.in/pnr_Enq.html | Apr 04 09:51 |
| la_fen | smgs808: http://adventureanytime.blogspot.com/2012/12/pnr-information.html | Apr 04 09:51 |
| messa4_ | rindolf: so anyway. when polygamy for man is allowed? [except when he is a Kind Solomon :)] | Apr 04 09:51 |
| messa4_ | King* | Apr 04 09:51 |
| *messa4 has quit (Quit: Lost terminal) | Apr 04 09:52 | |
| messa4_ | i just need short answer haha. for example "u can marry 20 woman that you found during war etc. or: u can marry 20 orphans etc] | Apr 04 09:52 |
| messa4_ | straight to the point | Apr 04 09:52 |
| smgs808 | .g http://indianrail.gov.in/pnr_Enq.html 1234561115 | Apr 04 09:53 |
| rindolf | messa4_: under very special circumstanses. | Apr 04 09:53 |
| la_fen | smgs808: No results found for 'http://indianrail.gov.in/pnr_Enq.html 1234561115'. | Apr 04 09:53 |
| cntrational | apparently they released a translation patch for Tales of the Tempest, the worst Tales of game | Apr 04 09:53 |
| messa4_ | rindolf: such as? im asking about them since 30 minutes :) | Apr 04 09:53 |
| rindolf | messa4_: there was something about a Jewish scholar who married someone who could only stay in the Land of Israel, and when he moved to .us was given permission to marry another woman. | Apr 04 09:53 |
| cntrational | http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=52514229&postcount=49 | Apr 04 09:53 |
| rindolf | messa4_: and she was left in Israel alone. | Apr 04 09:54 |
| Richard_Cavell | rindolf: Why could she only stay in Israel? | Apr 04 09:54 |
| rindolf | messa4_: that's the only case I heard of. | Apr 04 09:54 |
| messa4_ | rindolf: thank you | Apr 04 09:54 |
| rindolf | Richard_Cavell: family mysticism. | Apr 04 09:54 |
| Richard_Cavell | ok | Apr 04 09:54 |
| rindolf | messa4_: sorry for delaying the answer. | Apr 04 09:54 |
| messa4_ | no problem :D | Apr 04 09:54 |
| Richard_Cavell | Are we looking at war, by the way? | Apr 04 09:55 |
| rindolf | messa4_: a woman cannot initiate a divorce in Judaism. :-( | Apr 04 09:55 |
| messa4_ | please continue talking about judaism if u want. Its very intresting for me. | Apr 04 09:55 |
| rindolf | Richard_Cavell: war? | Apr 04 09:55 |
| Richard_Cavell | With North Korea threatening the world, are we looking at WW3? | Apr 04 09:55 |
| rindolf | messa4_: OK. | Apr 04 09:55 |
| rindolf | Richard_Cavell: I hope not. | Apr 04 09:55 |
| rindolf | Richard_Cavell: and see https://bitbucket.org/shlomif/unarmed-blog/src/c0ea0108fa238dd53e21872b5b4433cb0f5203d6/essays/YouTube-Introduction-Transcript/intro.txt?at=default | Apr 04 09:55 |
| *Disconnected (Connection reset by peer) | Apr 04 09:56 | |
| **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Apr 4 09:56:14 2013 | ||
| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Apr 4 09:56:31 2013 | ||
| *Now talking on ##English | Apr 04 09:56 | |
| *Topic for ##English is: English help and discussion! Remember to include the context. | This channel uses UTF-8. | IPA charts: http://www.paulmeier.com/ipa/charts.html | Word of the day: breviloquence /bɹɛvˈɪləkwəns/ n. A brief and pertinent mode of speaking. | Apr 04 09:56 | |
| *Topic for ##English set by opr!~o@unaffiliated/opr (Sun Mar 31 13:45:45 2013) | Apr 04 09:56 | |
| -NickServ-You are now identified for rindolf. | Apr 04 09:56 | |
| messa4_ | rindolf: in Islam they can hehe. | Apr 04 09:56 |
| rindolf | messa4_: yes. | Apr 04 09:56 |
| messa4_ | Maxdamantus: NK is threating and talking nonsence for past 20 years. nothing to worry about. | Apr 04 09:57 |
| rindolf | messa4_: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=you-are-banished | Apr 04 09:57 |
| cntrational | messa4_: *nonsense | Apr 04 09:57 |
| messa4_ | yeah | Apr 04 09:57 |
| *arietis (~arietis@188.242.181.162) has joined | Apr 04 09:57 | |
| messa4_ | haha | Apr 04 09:57 |
| rindolf | messa4_: well, with a woman it's more complicated. | Apr 04 09:57 |
| messa4_ | rindolf: on linux/unix u have fortune program for random cookies | Apr 04 09:57 |
| Richard_Cavell | rindolf: Are you female? | Apr 04 09:57 |
| Maxdamantus | %ro שלומי פיש | Apr 04 09:58 |
| Brainstorm | Maxdamantus: The iw romanization failed, sorry! | Apr 04 09:58 |
| rindolf | messa4_: and according to Islamic law, a man can opt to keep his children. | Apr 04 09:58 |
| rindolf | Richard_Cavell: no, I'm male and straight. | Apr 04 09:58 |
| messa4_ | rindolf: yeah i know. but i think that up to age of 4 or 11? they are with mother. | Apr 04 09:58 |
| rindolf | Richard_Cavell: but I hate being a macho, and am always a gentleman. | Apr 04 09:58 |
| Richard_Cavell | that's good | Apr 04 09:58 |
| Richard_Cavell | So wait, Shlomi Fish is actually your real name? | Apr 04 09:59 |
| Richard_Cavell rindolf R0b0t1 RamchandraApte RazorBeamz rippa | Apr 04 09:59 | |
| rindolf | Richard_Cavell: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour.html#Im_not_straight | Apr 04 09:59 |
| Richard_Cavell | I thought it was a nickname | Apr 04 09:59 |
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| rindolf | Richard_Cavell: yes - שלומי פיש | Apr 04 09:59 |
| Maxdamantus | Is Shlomi from the same root as Shalom? | Apr 04 09:59 |
| rindolf | Richard_Cavell: it's on my FAQ - http://www.shlomifish.org/meta/FAQ/ | Apr 04 09:59 |
| rindolf | Maxdamantus: yes , it is. | Apr 04 09:59 |
| messa4_ | rindolf: at what age jewish ppl can marry? [by religion, not law] | Apr 04 09:59 |
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| rindolf | Maxdamantus: it means "Shalom-ful" or "My Shalom" or "The Shalom of Yehovah". | Apr 04 10:00 |
| rindolf | messa4_: any age they want. | Apr 04 10:00 |
| Maxdamantus | Ah. | Apr 04 10:00 |
| rindolf | messa4_: well, past "puberty". | Apr 04 10:00 |
| Maxdamantus | So it's the same suffix as in Arabic. | Apr 04 10:00 |
| rindolf | messa4_: which is 12 for girls and 13 for boys. | Apr 04 10:00 |
| rindolf | Maxdamantus: yes. | Apr 04 10:00 |
| cntrational | interesting | Apr 04 10:00 |
| messa4_ | thats the nanswer haha. | Apr 04 10:00 |
| Maxdamantus | Does your last name mean anything? | Apr 04 10:00 |
| rindolf | Maxdamantus: it's not Shalomi due to various Hebrew grammar laws. | Apr 04 10:00 |
| rindolf | Maxdamantus: it means the sea-animal in English or German. | Apr 04 10:01 |
| Maxdamantus | rindolf: what would "my starling" be? | Apr 04 10:01 |
| cntrational | Maxdamantus: according to his faq, it means "fish" | Apr 04 10:01 |
| rindolf | Maxdamantus: well, it's with an English spelling. | Apr 04 10:01 |
| Maxdamantus | Oh, is it just a translation? | Apr 04 10:01 |
| Maxdamantus | \tr פיש | Apr 04 10:02 |
| che_fen | Maxdamantus: "Fish" (iw to en, translate.google.com) | Apr 04 10:02 |
| Richard_Cavell | rindolf: How do you pronounce it? | Apr 04 10:02 |
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| Richard_Cavell | translate.google.com won't speak Hebrew | Apr 04 10:02 |
| rindolf | Maxdamantus: I was teased a lot about my last name as a child, but now it's great because I can use the EvilPHish emblem. | Apr 04 10:02 |
| Maxdamantus | shin, yod, pe | Apr 04 10:02 |
| rindolf | Richard_Cavell: fish in Hebrew is "Dag". | Apr 04 10:02 |
| Maxdamantus | \tr my starling | Apr 04 10:02 |
| che_fen | Maxdamantus: "my starling" (en to en, translate.google.com) | Apr 04 10:02 |
| Maxdamantus | \tr :en :iw my starling | Apr 04 10:02 |
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| che_fen | Maxdamantus: "זרזירי" (en to iw, translate.google.com) | Apr 04 10:02 |
| Richard_Cavell | rindolf: So in Israel you're Shlomi Dag? | Apr 04 10:02 |
| rindolf | Richard_Cavell: http://www.shlomifish.org/meta/FAQ/#your_name - pronunciation here in ogg and mp3 | Apr 04 10:02 |
| ron | actually, fish in Hebrew would be pronounced closer to Dug than Dag. | Apr 04 10:02 |
| rindolf | Richard_Cavell: no. | Apr 04 10:02 |
| cntrational | huh, iw is an odd choice | Apr 04 10:02 |
| messa4_ | rindolf: in my country we had a LOT of hasidic jews before war. are they the same kind of jewish ppl who are living in israel? or its minority or what? [ imean in religous part of population] | Apr 04 10:02 |
| rindolf | Richard_Cavell: you don't translate names. | Apr 04 10:03 |
| cntrational | i'd expect iv | Apr 04 10:03 |
| Maxdamantus | That's my last name. | Apr 04 10:03 |
| Maxdamantus | It's the same in Hebrew, apparently. | Apr 04 10:03 |
| rindolf | messa4_: there are many Hasidic Jews here. | Apr 04 10:03 |
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| rindolf | messa4_: but there's a large rift between Hasidic Jews and non-Hasidic Jews. | Apr 04 10:03 |
| rindolf | messa4_: Judaism is pretty fractures. | Apr 04 10:03 |
| messa4_ | rindolf: do they speak hebrew or other launguage? [forgot the name: mix of polish, german, russian etc. ] | Apr 04 10:03 |
| cntrational | rindolf: do you know any yiddish or ladino or other jewish languages? | Apr 04 10:03 |
| cntrational | other than hebrew, of course | Apr 04 10:04 |
| rindolf | messa4_: but we are all united against our common enemy - the Goys! | Apr 04 10:04 |
| messa4_ | yiddish! | Apr 04 10:04 |
| ron | So... is there such a phrase in English as 'friend brings friend'? I'm looking to promote a hiring process by giving employees a referral bonus if they bring us people to the company. | Apr 04 10:04 |
| messa4_ | whaaat | Apr 04 10:04 |
| rindolf | messa4_: most of them also speak Hebrew. | Apr 04 10:04 |
| cntrational | .w goy | Apr 04 10:04 |
| la_fen | goy — noun: 1. A non-Jew, a Gentile | Apr 04 10:04 |
| rindolf | messa4_: well, technically, I'm an Orthodox Jew. | Apr 04 10:04 |
| messa4_ | rindolf: jews seriosly see non jews as enemis?! :D | Apr 04 10:04 |
| messa4_ | i mean religous one | Apr 04 10:04 |
| Richard_Cavell | rindolf: So how can you have an English word as your surname? | Apr 04 10:04 |
| rindolf | messa4_: it's just a part of Jewish elitism. | Apr 04 10:04 |
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| rindolf | Richard_Cavell: my Polish-Jewish grandfather carried it. | Apr 04 10:05 |
| messa4_ | rindolf: so religious jews in israel would not like be just becasue im not jewish? :| | Apr 04 10:05 |
| rindolf | messa4_: well... | Apr 04 10:05 |
| cntrational | Richard_Cavell: it's likely from German fisch, but the /ʃ/ sound is usually transliterated "sh" from hebrew | Apr 04 10:05 |
| messa4_ | thats kidna harsh | Apr 04 10:06 |
| messa4_ | kinda* | Apr 04 10:06 |
| Zetetic | Good old religion | Apr 04 10:06 |
| rindolf | messa4_: Jews see themselves as the guiding light of humanity - who are set to set a moral example. | Apr 04 10:06 |
| rindolf | messa4_: it was not uncommon among other people of the Near East. | Apr 04 10:06 |
| rindolf | But only Jews have maintained their identity. | Apr 04 10:06 |
| Zetetic | Which if you read the holy book is pretty laughable | Apr 04 10:06 |
| rindolf | In part due to their belief in Jehovah. | Apr 04 10:07 |
| ron | I don't see myself as guiding the light of humanity. | Apr 04 10:07 |
| messa4_ | messa4_: ok its ok. but im just confused: so for example I have sympathy for hasidic jews [becasue of common history] but now they suddenly dont like me becasue im goy? :( | Apr 04 10:07 |
| rindolf | ron: I do. | Apr 04 10:07 |
| rindolf | ron: I aim to be an example, and to lead and not follow. | Apr 04 10:07 |
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| **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Apr 4 10:07:44 2013 | ||
| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Apr 4 10:08:03 2013 | ||
| *Now talking on ##English | Apr 04 10:08 | |
| *Topic for ##English is: English help and discussion! Remember to include the context. | This channel uses UTF-8. | IPA charts: http://www.paulmeier.com/ipa/charts.html | Word of the day: breviloquence /bɹɛvˈɪləkwəns/ n. A brief and pertinent mode of speaking. | Apr 04 10:08 | |
| *Topic for ##English set by opr!~o@unaffiliated/opr (Sun Mar 31 13:45:45 2013) | Apr 04 10:08 | |
| -NickServ-You are now identified for rindolf. | Apr 04 10:08 | |
| Maxdamantus | 20:07:39 < Maxdamantus> rindolf: can you pronounce זרזירי as well? | Apr 04 10:08 |
| messa4_ | welcome back | Apr 04 10:08 |
| rindolf | ron: and my stories reflect reality as I want it to become, rather than as badly as I or other people perceive it. | Apr 04 10:08 |
| messa4_ | rindolf: ok its ok. but im just confused: so for example I have sympathy for hasidic jews [becasue of common history] but now they suddenly dont like me becasue im goy? :( | Apr 04 10:08 |
| ron | rindolf: that's because you're an elitist. | Apr 04 10:08 |
| rindolf | Maxdamantus: Zarziri. | Apr 04 10:08 |
| rindolf | Maxdamantus: Zarzir is a kind of bird. | Apr 04 10:08 |
| Maxdamantus | Interesting. | Apr 04 10:08 |
| Maxdamantus | Yeah. | Apr 04 10:08 |
| rindolf | ron: I iz an elitist. | Apr 04 10:08 |
| Richard_Cavell | messa4_: Thanks. Sorry that my computer hanged and I didn't read anything since the last thing I typed | Apr 04 10:08 |
| Maxdamantus | That's my name. | Apr 04 10:08 |
| rindolf | messa4_: they could like you. | Apr 04 10:08 |
| Maxdamantus | but it's actually in Arabic, but only the vowels are different. | Apr 04 10:08 |
| Maxdamantus | only the second one, apparently. | Apr 04 10:09 |
| rindolf | messa4_: and if you're a man, you can marry a Jewess and have Jewish children, and all will be fine. | Apr 04 10:09 |
| ron | rindolf: and you make generalizations, which make non-orthodox jews wary of you. | Apr 04 10:09 |
| messa4_ | Richard_Cavell: that was my quote heh. we all got disconnections here | Apr 04 10:09 |
| rindolf | ron: I make some generalisations, and I apologise for that. | Apr 04 10:09 |
| rindolf | ron: I also can be stereotypical. | Apr 04 10:10 |
| ron | rindolf: no kidding. | Apr 04 10:10 |
| rindolf | ron: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/TOWTF/ - this story is fully of cheap stereotypes. | Apr 04 10:10 |
| messa4_ | rindolf: so its just a matter of "taste" or all hasidic jews in israel suddenly dont like goys from europe/whatever? | Apr 04 10:10 |
| messa4_ | and i mean from religious point of view. | Apr 04 10:10 |
| rindolf | messa4_: well, it's not exclusive to Hasidic Jews. | Apr 04 10:11 |
| rindolf | messa4_: and we like goys. | Apr 04 10:11 |
| rindolf | messa4_: just that we consider Jews as "ones of our own". | Apr 04 10:11 |
| rindolf | messa4_: it's complicated. | Apr 04 10:11 |
| rindolf | messa4_: BTW, are you a software dev? | Apr 04 10:11 |
| Maxdamantus | So I'm a bird, rindolf's a fish. | Apr 04 10:12 |
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| cntrational | gotta head out for an english exam, ciao | Apr 04 10:12 |
| Maxdamantus | \tr :en :ar fish | Apr 04 10:12 |
| messa4_ | messa4_: wanna-be software dev :) python, some C, tcl | Apr 04 10:12 |
| che_fen | Maxdamantus: "سمك" (en to ar, translate.google.com) | Apr 04 10:12 |
| Maxdamantus | smk | Apr 04 10:12 |
| rindolf | Heh. | Apr 04 10:12 |
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| rindolf | MAybe it means "to fish" | Apr 04 10:12 |
| rindolf | Better use wiktionary for that. | Apr 04 10:12 |
| rindolf | Or a better and non-free/open dictionary. | Apr 04 10:12 |
| Maxdamantus | \tr :en :ar my fish | Apr 04 10:13 |
| che_fen | Maxdamantus: "بلدي الأسماك" (en to ar, translate.google.com) | Apr 04 10:13 |
| Maxdamantus | O_o | Apr 04 10:13 |
| rindolf | Heh, gaws. | Apr 04 10:13 |
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| Maxdamantus | \tr بلدي. الأسماك. | Apr 04 10:13 |
| che_fen | Maxdamantus: "My country. Fish ." (ar to en, translate.google.com) | Apr 04 10:13 |
| rindolf | \tr :en :he my fish | Apr 04 10:13 |
| che_fen | rindolf: "הדגים שלי" (en to he, translate.google.com) | Apr 04 10:13 |
| rindolf | Heh. | Apr 04 10:13 |
| Maxdamantus | Where did country come from? | Apr 04 10:13 |
| rindolf | I meant in singular. | Apr 04 10:13 |
| rindolf | Maxdamantus: how do men make war? | Apr 04 10:13 |
| messa4_ | rindolf: so by religion its ok for jews to like goys? or its not advised? | Apr 04 10:13 |
| messa4_ | recommended* | Apr 04 10:13 |
| messa4_ | in islam for example is not recommended. but ok | Apr 04 10:14 |
| messa4_ | its* | Apr 04 10:14 |
| Maxdamantus | rindolf: by convincing populations that other populations are bad people. | Apr 04 10:14 |
| messa4_ | my god. i got 15seconds lag | Apr 04 10:14 |
| messa4_ | 22 seonds | Apr 04 10:14 |
| rindolf | Maxdamantus: that's a reference to https://www.google.com/search?q=where%20does%20babby%20come%20from | Apr 04 10:14 |
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| Maxdamantus | I've س that. | Apr 04 10:15 |
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| rindolf | messa4: it's complicated - Judaism is so contradictory. | Apr 04 10:15 |
| rindolf | meese: even the five books of the Torah are contradictory. | Apr 04 10:15 |
| rindolf | messa4*: even the five books of the Torah are contradictory. | Apr 04 10:15 |
| rindolf | messa4: you always need to use reason. | Apr 04 10:15 |
| Maxdamantus | \tr :en :he I like to fish | Apr 04 10:16 |
| che_fen | Maxdamantus: "אני אוהב לדוג" (en to he, translate.google.com) | Apr 04 10:16 |
| rindolf | Maxdamantus: good translation. | Apr 04 10:16 |
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| **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Apr 4 10:16:45 2013 | ||
| **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Apr 4 10:17:04 2013 | ||
| *Now talking on ##English | Apr 04 10:17 | |
| *Topic for ##English is: English help and discussion! Remember to include the context. | This channel uses UTF-8. | IPA charts: http://www.paulmeier.com/ipa/charts.html | Word of the day: breviloquence /bɹɛvˈɪləkwəns/ n. A brief and pertinent mode of speaking. | Apr 04 10:17 | |
| *Topic for ##English set by opr!~o@unaffiliated/opr (Sun Mar 31 13:45:45 2013) | Apr 04 10:17 | |
| -NickServ-You are now identified for rindolf. | Apr 04 10:17 | |
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| Maxdamantus | I'd probably say "I like fishing" | Apr 04 10:17 |
| Maxdamantus | Rather than "I like to fish" | Apr 04 10:17 |
| rindolf | messa4: anyway, it's more like elitism than anything else. | Apr 04 10:17 |
| Maxdamantus | \w לדוג | Apr 04 10:17 |
| che_fen | Couldn't get any definitions for לדוג. | Apr 04 10:17 |
| Maxdamantus | \w :he לדוג | Apr 04 10:17 |
| che_fen | Couldn't get any definitions for לדוג. | Apr 04 10:17 |
| Maxdamantus | \w :iw לדוג | Apr 04 10:17 |
| che_fen | IOError: [Errno socket error] [Errno -2] Name or service not known (file "/usr/lib/python2.7/socket.py", line 553, in create_connection) | Apr 04 10:17 |
| rindolf | meese: traditionally the Judeo-Christian ethics were very sexist - http://unarmed.shlomifish.org/2396.html | Apr 04 10:17 |
| rindolf | meese: sorry. | Apr 04 10:17 |
| rindolf | messa4: ^^^ | Apr 04 10:18 |
| messa4 | rindolf: i didnt know that religious jews are into elitism thing. unlike zionist jews. but it seems that i was wrong ahah :) | Apr 04 10:18 |
| messa4 | i dont mind "sexism" | Apr 04 10:18 |
| messa4 | becasue im ok with religion | Apr 04 10:19 |
| messa4 | whatever god is telling its ok | Apr 04 10:19 |
| rindolf | messa4: women could not write books, or philosophise, or perform at plays/etc. | Apr 04 10:19 |
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| rindolf | messa4: and men were not supposed to cook. | Apr 04 10:19 |
| messa4 | rindolf: hehe. thats normal values ;] | Apr 04 10:19 |
| Maxdamantus | \tr :en :he random | Apr 04 10:19 |
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| che_fen | Maxdamantus: "אקראי" (en to he, translate.google.com) | Apr 04 10:19 |
| rindolf | messa4: nowadays some of the most acclaimed authors and actors are female. | Apr 04 10:20 |
| Maxdamantus | מזנון | Apr 04 10:20 |
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| rindolf | messa4: part of it is due to technological (both tangible and intellectual) advancement. | Apr 04 10:20 |
| messa4 | rindolf: is there anything that man cant do, and its accepted in non religious world? | Apr 04 10:20 |
| Maxdamantus | \w :he cat | Apr 04 10:21 |
| che_fen | Couldn't get any definitions for cat. | Apr 04 10:21 |
| Maxdamantus | \w :he CAT | Apr 04 10:21 |
| che_fen | Couldn't get any definitions for CAT. | Apr 04 10:21 |
| rindolf | messa4: thing is I've been an idealist for many years now, but my idealism has always changed. | Apr 04 10:21 |
| Maxdamantus | \w :he הדמיה | Apr 04 10:21 |
| che_fen | Couldn't get any definitions for הדמיה. | Apr 04 10:21 |
| rindolf | Maxdamantus: please take it to PM. | Apr 04 10:21 |
| messa4 | rindolf: for me its ok. as i said: im ok with religion so im not jugmental about religious rules. i have more respect for them then man made laws heh | Apr 04 10:21 |
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| rindolf | messa4: ah. | Apr 04 10:22 |
| messa4 | rindolf: i know u wrote about it in rindolfism :D | Apr 04 10:22 |
| rindolf | messa4: I think religion is man-made too. | Apr 04 10:22 |
| messa4 | blasphemy! | Apr 04 10:22 |
| messa4 | :D | Apr 04 10:22 |
| messa4 | so wait | Apr 04 10:22 |
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| messa4 | this is even more funny | Apr 04 10:22 |
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| messa4 | so u are saying that u are jew becasue of jewish blood of mother - and religion is nothing to do with that? | Apr 04 10:23 |
| rindolf | messa4: thing is a lot fo Leviticus/etc. in the Bible was thrown together out of paranoia. | Apr 04 10:23 |
| rindolf | messa4: kinda. | Apr 04 10:23 |
| rindolf | messa4: well, I'm Jewish as far as my eye can see. | Apr 04 10:23 |
| rindolf | messa4: though we used to be peasant Jews. | Apr 04 10:23 |
| messa4 | my god. so jewish ppl are not seen themselfs as "followers of judaism religion" but as blood "race" ? | Apr 04 10:23 |
| rindolf | messa4: well, my grandmother's father was from Vilnius (= the Jerusalem of Lithuania) and was a big scholar. | Apr 04 10:24 |
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| rindolf | messa4: I read some of his books - awesome stuff. | Apr 04 10:24 |
| messa4 | in polish Vilnius its called Wilno. it was polish before the war hehe but shh | Apr 04 10:24 |
| messa4 | rindolf: so jewish ppl are not seen themselfs as "followers of judaism religion" but as blood "race" ? | Apr 04 10:25 |
| rindolf | messa4: yes, it passed through several sovereignships between 1900 and 2000. | Apr 04 10:25 |
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| rindolf | messa4: well, it's more complicated. | Apr 04 10:25 |
| Maxdamantus | The Hebrew wiktionary is weird. | Apr 04 10:25 |
| rindolf | messa4: being a Jew or a Jewess is a big responsibility. | Apr 04 10:25 |
| Maxdamantus | It's got "ROFL" and "WTF", but not "cat" | Apr 04 10:26 |
| messa4 | i do understand whole "who is the jew" thing [there is nice wiki article] but i want to know what jewish ppl think about that in general | Apr 04 10:26 |
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| rindolf | Maxdamantus: it's חתול in Hebrew. | Apr 04 10:26 |
| rindolf | messa4: well, it's complicated. | Apr 04 10:26 |
| rindolf | messa4: I like being a Jew, but I have to prove myself. | Apr 04 10:26 |
| Maxdamantus | Mm, but the Wiktionaries tend to have at least a few English words. | Apr 04 10:27 |
| Maxdamantus | \w :fr cat | Apr 04 10:27 |
| che_fen | cat — nom commun: 1. Variante de chat, 2. (Zoologie) Chat, chatte (animal) — locution adverbiale: 1. Mépris indifférent, 2. Immédiatement après, aussitôt après, dès que — symbole: 1. (Linguistique) Code ISO 639-3 du catalan — onomatopée: 1. Onomatopée exprimant l'indifférence | Apr 04 10:27 |
| rindolf | messa4: and some Jews, including our prime minister are a disgrace to Judaism. | Apr 04 10:27 |
| messa4 | for example: if most ppl in israel would be jew by BLOOD but muslims by religions - they will still have jewish elitism thing? | Apr 04 10:27 |
| messa4 | wow | Apr 04 10:27 |
| rindolf | messa4: someone who converted to Christianity or Islam is no longer a Jew. | Apr 04 10:27 |
| messa4 | ok good | Apr 04 10:28 |
| Maxdamantus | Who's to say he's a disgrace to Judaism? | Apr 04 10:28 |
| messa4 | and for u for example: its more about blood or faith? | Apr 04 10:28 |
| rindolf | messa4: on the other hand, the children of an Atheist Jewess are 100% Jewish. | Apr 04 10:28 |
| rindolf | messa4: it's not about faith. | Apr 04 10:28 |
| messa4 | u feel jewish becasue u belive in faith or becasue of blood requirments? | Apr 04 10:28 |
| messa4 | ok | Apr 04 10:28 |
| messa4 | very strange | Apr 04 10:28 |
| rindolf | messa4: I really hope God is not the one in the Bible. | Apr 04 10:29 |
| rindolf | messa4: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=if-God-exists | Apr 04 10:29 |
| messa4 | haha | Apr 04 10:30 |
| messa4 | srindolf: so its even more confuzing. so those previously mentioned hasidic jews might not like me becasue Im have just blood of non jew? and religion doesnt matter? | Apr 04 10:30 |
| rindolf | messa4: I think we should even ditch part of the Ten Commandments. | Apr 04 10:30 |
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| messa4 | I have* | Apr 04 10:30 |
| rindolf | messa4: listen, Judaism is positively huge. | Apr 04 10:30 |
| messa4 | i know i know | Apr 04 10:30 |
| messa4 | but im just trying to udnerstand the faith/blood balance | Apr 04 10:31 |
| rindolf | messa4: well... | Apr 04 10:31 |
| rindolf | messa4: Judaism is a culture, an ethnicity. | Apr 04 10:31 |
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| messa4 | i mean i would expect that for hasidic jews [ultra orthodox] its more about faith then blood and stuff | Apr 04 10:31 |
| messa4 | but im wrong heh | Apr 04 10:32 |
| rindolf | messa4: and the Jews have incorporated elements of their surrounding environment by infusion, influence, and by blood (marrying with former gentiles). | Apr 04 10:32 |
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| messa4 | for example in islam: race, blood, coluor - doesnt matter at all. its just faith | Apr 04 10:32 |
| rindolf | messa4: yes. | Apr 04 10:32 |
| messa4 | thats why im shocked. kinda opposite | Apr 04 10:32 |
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| rindolf | messa4: the Jews nowadays have lots of influences by many people. | Apr 04 10:33 |
| messa4 | rindolf: | Apr 04 10:33 |
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| messa4 | good or bad influances? :D | Apr 04 10:33 |
| rindolf | messa4: Greek, Egyptians, Mesupotamians, Slavs, Germanic, Celtic, Roman, etc, etc. | Apr 04 10:33 |
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| rindolf | messa4: American typically think that Jewish girls are unattractive, but they obviously have not been to Tel Aviv... | Apr 04 10:34 |
| messa4 | btw its shocking becasue nazi did the same to jews: they classifed them by BLOOD. kinda ironic | Apr 04 10:34 |
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| rindolf | messa4: yes. | Apr 04 10:35 |
| messa4 | rindolf: haha thats true about girls. i also find them unatracctive from what i have seen in internet | Apr 04 10:35 |
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| messa4 | but you must be right :) | Apr 04 10:35 |
| rindolf | messa4: when you let Jews loose into their surroundings then Bad Things Happen. After the Christian ruling of Spain, many Jews opted to convert to Christianity, and now 25% of the Spanish males have a Jewish Y chromosome. | Apr 04 10:36 |
| messa4 | dint know that haha | Apr 04 10:36 |
| rindolf | messa4: http://www.flickr.com/photos/shlomif/ - some hot Jewish chicks. | Apr 04 10:36 |
| messa4 | they look like from lebanon lol | Apr 04 10:37 |
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| messa4 | some jewish girls have big noses tho. im serious | Apr 04 10:38 |
| messa4 | hmm. didnt know that u got blone jewish womans | Apr 04 10:39 |
| rindolf | messa4: yes, I kinda noticed it too. | Apr 04 10:39 |
| rindolf | messa4: we do. :-) | Apr 04 10:39 |
| rindolf | messa4: well, some chicks colour their hair. | Apr 04 10:39 |
| messa4 | and naturally? | Apr 04 10:39 |
| rindolf | messa4: some also naturally. | Apr 04 10:39 |
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| rindolf | messa4: primarily children can be blond. | Apr 04 10:39 |
| rindolf | messa4: my father was blond as a boy, but later became black-haired. | Apr 04 10:40 |
| messa4 | im kinda opposite. when im on sun my hair become lighter | Apr 04 10:40 |
| messa4 | i mean if u are for 2 weeks in spain for example | Apr 04 10:40 |
| rindolf | messa4: ah. | Apr 04 10:40 |
| rindolf | messa4: ah. | Apr 04 10:40 |
| rindolf | messa4: my hair was always black. | Apr 04 10:40 |
| rindolf | messa4: but I kinda resemble my father. | Apr 04 10:41 |
| rindolf | messa4: my sisters had light brown hair as children. | Apr 04 10:41 |
| rindolf | messa4: one of them is still not completely black-haired. | Apr 04 10:41 |
| messa4 | most of those girls on photos doesnt look jewish haha | Apr 04 10:41 |
| rindolf | messa4: and our hairs have been turning grey/white. :-( | Apr 04 10:41 |
| messa4 | like gandalf :D | Apr 04 10:42 |
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| messa4 | man you got great weather there | Apr 04 10:43 |
| rindolf | messa4: have you seen Spaceballs? | Apr 04 10:43 |
| messa4 | on every single photo | Apr 04 10:43 |
| messa4 | star wars parody? :) | Apr 04 10:43 |
| messa4 | then yes. but may years ago | Apr 04 10:43 |
| rindolf | messa4: Lone Starr: "Just what we need! A Druish Princess." Barf: "Funny! She doesn't look Druish." | Apr 04 10:44 |
| rindolf | messa4: watch it again. | Apr 04 10:44 |
| rindolf | messa4: it's one of the bestest movies ever. | Apr 04 10:44 |
| messa4 | heh | Apr 04 10:44 |
| messa4 | wait | Apr 04 10:44 |
| messa4 | http://www.flickr.com/photos/shlomif/3419217176/in/photostream | Apr 04 10:44 |
| messa4 | whaaat u also got Broth? | Apr 04 10:44 |
| messa4 | we have the same but iwthout peas | Apr 04 10:45 |
| rindolf | messa4: my mother prepared it. | Apr 04 10:45 |
| messa4 | usually just with egg. or with potatoes | Apr 04 10:45 |
| rindolf | messa4: not sure it's called "Broth". | Apr 04 10:45 |
| rindolf | messa4: ah. | Apr 04 10:45 |
| rindolf | messa4: we call it "נזיד" in Hebrew. | Apr 04 10:45 |
| rindolf | It's a Biblical word. | Apr 04 10:45 |
| rindolf | Nezid. | Apr 04 10:45 |
| messa4 | intresting | Apr 04 10:45 |
| messa4 | we also eat it with pasta | Apr 04 10:46 |
| messa4 | or even entire chicken inside | Apr 04 10:46 |
| messa4 | anyway | Apr 04 10:46 |
| rindolf | messa4: ah, OK. | Apr 04 10:46 |
| messa4 Maxdamantus m477 m4sker malywzer marienz marzipig mattb meese mike4_ Miki__ Milossh Mogget mollies monsieurp moocow mrmist mrrothhcloud__ msch mtrd`_ muteki myrkraverk | Apr 04 10:46 | |
| messa4 | a lot of polish food is simialr to what jews are eating. or opposite | Apr 04 10:47 |
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| rindolf | messa4: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_cuisine | Apr 04 10:47 |
| messa4 | the whole hasidic jews had huge impact | Apr 04 10:47 |
| rindolf | messa4: yes. | Apr 04 10:47 |
| messa4 | i started discovering it few years ago. most ppl are not aware of it at all | Apr 04 10:47 |
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| rindolf | messa4: I'm not a big fan of most Eastern European Jewish food. | Apr 04 10:47 |
| messa4 | even some "national" food is jewish. or maybe adopted by jews. who knows | Apr 04 10:47 |
| rindolf | messa4: too unspicey and unedgy for me. | Apr 04 10:47 |
| messa4 | haha | Apr 04 10:48 |
| rindolf | messa4: I prefer more mideastern food. | Apr 04 10:48 |
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| messa4 | i like polish food | Apr 04 10:48 |
| rindolf | messa4: and Italian/Chinese/Thai/American/etc. food is also good. | Apr 04 10:48 |
| messa4 | even in UK im eating that kinda of food for dinner usually | Apr 04 10:48 |
| rindolf | Now some people like Ethiopian food. | Apr 04 10:48 |
| messa4 | such us? never heard of any | Apr 04 10:49 |
| rindolf | messa4: I didn't either. | Apr 04 10:49 |
| rindolf | messa4: I never ate Sushi. | Apr 04 10:49 |
| rindolf | My father doesn't like it. | Apr 04 10:49 |
| messa4 | me neither haha | Apr 04 10:49 |
| rindolf | Lots of geek seem to like it a lot. | Apr 04 10:49 |
| messa4 | LMAO!!! | Apr 04 10:49 |
| rindolf | geeks. | Apr 04 10:49 |
| messa4 | Armeniadoma - Stuffed vine leaves. do u eat if often? | Apr 04 10:50 |
| rindolf | messa4: ah, yes, I love them. | Apr 04 10:50 |
| rindolf | messa4: with rice, right? | Apr 04 10:50 |
| messa4 | im laughing becasue i just ate very similar [but from cabbage instead vine leaves] few days ago! | Apr 04 10:50 |
| messa4 | RICE and mushrooms | Apr 04 10:50 |
| messa4 | and meat | Apr 04 10:50 |
| messa4 | and tomato souce | Apr 04 10:50 |
| rindolf | Ah, I only like the ones at restaurants. | Apr 04 10:50 |
| messa4 | or not rice but [let me find the word] | Apr 04 10:50 |
| rindolf | messa4: I ate at a Czech restaurant the other day. | Apr 04 10:51 |
| rindolf | messa4: the food was OK, but I didn't really love the dish. | Apr 04 10:51 |
| messa4 | we made it with "Groat" (is that english word for it?) isntead rice usually | Apr 04 10:51 |
| rindolf | messa4: ah, but I had a great time at the Mongolian grill bar. | Apr 04 10:51 |
| rindolf | messa4: but it costs a lot of money. | Apr 04 10:51 |
| messa4 | wow thats exotic | Apr 04 10:51 |
| messa4 | anyway | Apr 04 10:51 |
| rindolf | Something like 100 ILS/person - 150 ILS/person now. | Apr 04 10:51 |
| rindolf | I think they are very popular. | Apr 04 10:52 |
| messa4 | Armeniadoma - Stuffed vine leaves. thats what i was talking about. We seem it as one of the "national dishes" in poland. but u got the same in israel | Apr 04 10:52 |
| messa4 | how much is 1ILS in $? | Apr 04 10:52 |
| rindolf | messa4: do you have many foreign-style restaurants in .pl? | Apr 04 10:52 |
| messa4 | well i lvie in uk since few years so i dont know current state. but in general: no really. or if we do: they are kinda fake | Apr 04 10:53 |
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| messa4 | u can get sushi or piza or whatever. but u know - its made by local ppl | Apr 04 10:53 |
| messa4 | so i would say that not really imo | Apr 04 10:53 |
| messa4 | we dont have strong resturants or fast food culture | Apr 04 10:54 |
| rindolf | messa4: ah, I see. | Apr 04 10:54 |
| rindolf | messa4: ah, OK. | Apr 04 10:54 |
| rindolf | messa4: I was told many poles immigrated to .uk. | Apr 04 10:54 |
| rindolf | messa4: where do you live there? | Apr 04 10:54 |
| messa4 | MILLIONS | Apr 04 10:54 |
| messa4 | about 2 millions at least | Apr 04 10:54 |
| rindolf | messa4: millions? Seriously? | Apr 04 10:54 |
| rindolf | Wow. | Apr 04 10:54 |
| rindolf | A lot. | Apr 04 10:54 |
| messa4 | very serious | Apr 04 10:54 |
| rindolf | Ah. | Apr 04 10:54 |
| messa4 | in just few years timespan | Apr 04 10:54 |
| rindolf | Wow. | Apr 04 10:54 |
| messa4 | everyone was shocked hehe | Apr 04 10:54 |
| rindolf | OK. | Apr 04 10:54 |
| messa4 | massive exodus. like jews from egypt hahahaha | Apr 04 10:55 |
| rindolf | messa4: heh. | Apr 04 10:55 |
| messa4 | I was from northern part. but born in Krakow | Apr 04 10:55 |
| rindolf | messa4: ah. | Apr 04 10:55 |
| rindolf | messa4: where do you live in .uk? | Apr 04 10:55 |
| messa4 | a lot of hasidic jews there before war | Apr 04 10:55 |
| rindolf | messa4: yes. | Apr 04 10:55 |
| rindolf | messa4: was Krakow destroyed ? | Apr 04 10:55 |
| messa4 | in North-west. | Apr 04 10:55 |
| messa4 | rindolf: not at all | Apr 04 10:55 |
| rindolf | messa4: ah, that's great. | Apr 04 10:56 |
| messa4 | one ofthe few cities not destroyed very much | Apr 04 10:56 |
| messa4 | becasue krakow was headquater of nazi officials in occupied poland | Apr 04 10:56 |
| rindolf | Mother fucking nazis. | Apr 04 10:56 |
| messa4 | hehe | Apr 04 10:56 |
| messa4 | yeah we dont like them too | Apr 04 10:56 |
| rindolf | messa4: http://www.flickr.com/photos/shlomif/8424748431/in/photostream/ | Apr 04 10:56 |
| rindolf | messa4: not sure if you saw it. | Apr 04 10:57 |
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| messa4 | even today germans are trying to say that there was more antisemitism in poland before war then in nazi germany. i fuckin hate them | Apr 04 10:57 |
| rindolf | messa4: thing is even if Hitler did not kill millions of Jews, he was still one hell of a motherfucker. | Apr 04 10:57 |
| messa4 | you know rindolf | Apr 04 10:57 |
| rindolf | messa4: thing is at any point you can say "No" to your oppressor. | Apr 04 10:58 |
| messa4 | for us even without jews is a big problem: remember that A LOT of polish population died in camps. not just jews | Apr 04 10:58 |
| rindolf | Which can be a "fuck you" or a whining like I tend to do. | Apr 04 10:58 |
| rindolf | messa4: yes, I know. | Apr 04 10:58 |
| messa4 | rindolf: bassicly germans are trying to convice the world that is was not their goverment who sanctioned holocaust. but it was polish fault | Apr 04 10:59 |
| messa4 | its insanse. few days ago there was big beef becasue german tv made some movie about such lies | Apr 04 10:59 |
| messa4 | and some uneducated germans might belive in that shit fully | Apr 04 10:59 |
| messa4 | thats why i hate nazis and germans | Apr 04 10:59 |
| messa4 | ps. there was antisemitism in poland as well. but for fuck sake - it was not even 1% of what they did in germany. | Apr 04 11:00 |
| messa4 | btw | Apr 04 11:01 |
| messa4 | there is funny story | Apr 04 11:01 |
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| messa4 | in 1968 communist goverment in poland. exiled all jews from poland [well not all but u know] | Apr 04 11:01 |
| messa4 | including top ranking policians, and secret police members | Apr 04 11:02 |
| messa4 | and funny part is that | Apr 04 11:02 |
| messa4 | that was all becasue of Israel. Israel was in war back then with Egypt and whatever [u know better]. and some polish ppl [jewish] went to streets in poland with flags and shit and supported isreal :D hehe and thats ok but goverment was supporting THE OTHER SIDE of war :D | Apr 04 11:03 |
| messa4 | so they were very angly. its like supporting opposing side during the war. so in most dumb decision ever they decided them to send them all to israel | Apr 04 11:04 |
| messa4 | and its funny becasue it was not becasue of antisemitism - but after that goverment was antisemitic. like going back in evolution | Apr 04 11:05 |
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| rindolf | messa4: ah, OK. | Apr 04 11:06 |
| rindolf | messa4: there are very few Jews left in Poland. | Apr 04 11:06 |
| rindolf | messa4: I don't think WWII was about antisemitism. | Apr 04 11:06 |
| rindolf | messa4: and the American Civil War was not about slavery. | Apr 04 11:07 |
| messa4 | rindolf: there are more and more jews after 1989 | Apr 04 11:08 |
| rindolf | messa4: ah. | Apr 04 11:08 |
| rindolf | messa4: OK. | Apr 04 11:08 |
| rindolf | messa4: immigrants? | Apr 04 11:08 |
| rindolf | messa4: BTW, Polish culture had quite a lot of influence on Israel. | Apr 04 11:08 |
| rindolf | messa4: well, German culture too. | Apr 04 11:08 |
| rindolf | messa4: the earliest waves of Zionist immigrants were from Russia, Poland and Germany. | Apr 04 11:09 |
| messa4 | and imo u are wrong .second WW was about jews hehe. 1933-39 - major attacks on german jews. that gave the power to hitler to invade europe - people german ppl truly belived that it was all fault of jews - so war is OK | Apr 04 11:09 |
| messa4 | i think that 1933-39 is even more scarry then holocaust itself | Apr 04 11:09 |
| messa4 | becasue: | Apr 04 11:09 |
| rindolf | messa4: well, antisemitism played a large role in it. | Apr 04 11:09 |
| rindolf | messa4: anyway, we are getting into dangerous territory here. | Apr 04 11:10 |
| rindolf | WWII/Hitler/Nazism. | Apr 04 11:10 |
| rindolf | http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=sharp-perl-how-to-stop-a-discussion | Apr 04 11:10 |
| messa4 | 1. germans were not at war at all yet with anyway BUT 2. It was possible BY THE LAW AND DEMOCARATIC GOVERMENT: to transofrm jews into underclass - take away they rights and even put some of them into camps way before holocaust concept [Dachau] | Apr 04 11:11 |
| messa4 | and 3. they proved how MEDIA [radio and newspaper] can destroy minds of ppl: convincing them that they need to hate jews | Apr 04 11:11 |
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| messa4 | why dangerous territory? | Apr 04 11:11 |
| rindolf | messa4: well, I think any constitutional discrimination is bad, especially what's going on in Israel now. | Apr 04 11:11 |
| smgs808 | .w bills | Apr 04 11:11 |
| la_fen | bills — noun: 1. Plural form of bill — verb: 1. Third-person singular simple present indicative form of bill | Apr 04 11:12 |
| smgs808 | .w vouchers | Apr 04 11:12 |
| la_fen | vouchers — noun: 1. Plural form of voucher — verb: 1. Third-person singular simple present indicative form of voucher | Apr 04 11:12 |
| messa4 | rindolf: exactly my point!! :) World didnt do SHIT to help jews in 1933-39 in germany - and look how it ended? | Apr 04 11:12 |
| rindolf | smgs808: the kill bill. | Apr 04 11:12 |
| rindolf | messa4: yes. | Apr 04 11:12 |
| rindolf | messa4: did you hear of Neo-Tech? | Apr 04 11:13 |
| messa4 | becasue it was "legal" in germany to persecute jew. biggest tragedy of XX century imo. [whole LAW prcoess made evil legal] | Apr 04 11:13 |
| messa4 | nope | Apr 04 11:13 |
| smgs808 | :c | Apr 04 11:13 |
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| rindolf | messa4: http://www.shlomifish.org/n-t-/ | Apr 04 11:13 |
| rindolf | messa4: the so-called "Neo-Tech cosmic power" book was the most influential book I read. | Apr 04 11:14 |
| smgs808 | .w bill | Apr 04 11:14 |
| la_fen | bill — noun: 1. Any of various bladed or pointed hand weapons, originally designating an Anglo-Saxon sword, and later a weapon of infantry, especially in the 14th and 15th centuries, commonly consisting of a broad, heavy, double-edged, hook-shaped blade, with a short pike at the back and anot[...] | Apr 04 11:14 |
| rindolf | messa4: it's positively awesome, but seems very farfetched. | Apr 04 11:14 |
| messa4 | what is ti about? | Apr 04 11:14 |
| rindolf | messa4: http://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/philosophy/guide-to-neo-tech/ | Apr 04 11:14 |
| messa4 | i dont like philosophy | Apr 04 11:15 |
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| rindolf | messa4: but I think the world caught up. | Apr 04 11:15 |
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| rindolf | messa4: ah, you should. | Apr 04 11:15 |
| rindolf | messa4: though 90% of philosophy is crap. | Apr 04 11:15 |
| messa4 | its not that im closed minded. im open. but i prefer religion to philosophy | Apr 04 11:15 |
| rindolf | messa4: but philosophy is incredibly useful. | Apr 04 11:15 |
| rindolf | messa4: ah. | Apr 04 11:15 |
| rindolf | messa4: religion is-a philosophy. | Apr 04 11:15 |
| messa4 | partly | Apr 04 11:16 |
| rindolf | messa4: and there's a lot of awesome stuff in non-religious stuff. | Apr 04 11:16 |
| messa4 | the | Apr 04 11:16 |
| messa4 | neo-tech page that u linked in your webpage is broken :( | Apr 04 11:16 |
| messa4 | rindolf: for example what? | Apr 04 11:16 |
| rindolf | messa4: and modern franchises of fiction are also philosophy: Star Trek , Buffy, The Three Musketeers, Friends, etc. etc. | Apr 04 11:17 |
| rindolf | messa4: also Aesop's fables. | Apr 04 11:17 |
| rindolf | messa4: and the Greek mythology. | Apr 04 11:18 |
| messa4 | since i learned some physics [some basics of quantum mechanics, atoms, gravity, string theories etc] and i discovered religon - i dont think that i need anything else hehe | Apr 04 11:18 |
| rindolf | Which was once a religion, but now is no longer taken seriously. | Apr 04 11:18 |
| rindolf | messa4: ah. | Apr 04 11:18 |
| rindolf | messa4: I always try to gain more an more external influences. | Apr 04 11:18 |
| messa4 | for me physics+religion is way to go. even most ultra-orthodox | Apr 04 11:18 |
| rindolf | messa4: now I started watching My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. | Apr 04 11:18 |
| rindolf | messa4: and some people play games. | Apr 04 11:18 |
| messa4 | whaat | Apr 04 11:19 |
| messa4 | where doest that phonies come from? | Apr 04 11:19 |
| rindolf | messa4: do you listen to popular songs? Or covers of them on youtube. | Apr 04 11:19 |
| messa4 | i mean we were talking about mythology and suddenly u talking about pink pony :D | Apr 04 11:19 |
| rindolf | messa4: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Little_Pony:_Friendship_Is_Magic | Apr 04 11:19 |
| rindolf | messa4: MLP is a cult T.V. show among some grown up men. It's great. | Apr 04 11:20 |
| messa4 | inever heard about it haha | Apr 04 11:20 |
| rindolf | messa4: do you read xkcd? | Apr 04 11:20 |
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| messa4 | sometimes | Apr 04 11:20 |
| rindolf | messa4: well, I think it's more of an American thing. | Apr 04 11:20 |
| rindolf | messa4: ah. | Apr 04 11:20 |
| messa4 | but i would not call it "reading" :) | Apr 04 11:20 |
| messa4 | its a comics | Apr 04 11:20 |
| messa4 | wait | Apr 04 11:21 |
| messa4 | waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaait | Apr 04 11:21 |
| rindolf | messa4: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/Summerschool-at-the-NSA/ongoing-text.html#we_are_scheming - this is kinda an xkcd fan fiction, and I also reference MLP and drug abuse. | Apr 04 11:21 |
| messa4 | i remember those ponies from tv when i was a kid | Apr 04 11:21 |
| messa4 | rindolf: i already know "Summerschool-at-the-NSA" screen play :) | Apr 04 11:21 |
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| rindolf | messa4: ah, that was a different incarnation. | Apr 04 11:21 |
| rindolf | messa4: did you read it yet? | Apr 04 11:21 |
| rindolf | messa4: thing is - you need good philosophy to write good fiction. | Apr 04 11:22 |
| rindolf | messa4: and I think it's important not to speak in riddle, and be honest. | Apr 04 11:22 |
| messa4 | i did read it fully like one week ago. and we were talking about it. I said that it had hillarious moments, but i didnt understand it all, and you chaning the storyline too fast and too rapidly :D | Apr 04 11:22 |
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| rindolf | messa4: ah, I see. | Apr 04 11:23 |
| rindolf | messa4: OK. | Apr 04 11:23 |
| rindolf | messa4: OK, maybe it's a known bug. | Apr 04 11:23 |
| rindolf | messa4: my stories cannot be everything for everyone. | Apr 04 11:23 |
| messa4 | rindolf: you just just write some neat story about judaism but WITHOUT time travel, terminator, computers or vampires references :) heehehhe | Apr 04 11:23 |
| rindolf | messa4: "please all and ye shall please none" -- Aesop. | Apr 04 11:23 |
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| messa4 | becasue for me: your stories are intresting - but then in the middle of fun u are chaning whole theme :D | Apr 04 11:24 |
| messa4 | changing* | Apr 04 11:24 |
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| rindolf | messa4: ah. | Apr 04 11:24 |
| rindolf | messa4: well, I'm not a purist of anything. | Apr 04 11:24 |
| rindolf | messa4: I feel art should be mixed and matched. | Apr 04 11:24 |
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| rindolf | messa4: you may enjoy my shorter stuff more. | Apr 04 11:25 |
| rindolf | I-Love-Boobies: hi. | Apr 04 11:25 |
| messa4 | anyway: why u need some extra philosphy if u got whole judaism mysticism right in front of u? | Apr 04 11:25 |
| I-Love-Boobies | Hi. | Apr 04 11:25 |
| rindolf | messa4: like the Chuck Norris factoids, or the aphorisms or quotes. | Apr 04 11:25 |
| messa4 | i mean i bet that u can find some intresting stuff in it | Apr 04 11:25 |
| rindolf | messa4: "All truth is God's truth" | Apr 04 11:25 |
| messa4 | and not main stream | Apr 04 11:25 |
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| rindolf | messa4: I need to see past the limitations of Judaism. | Apr 04 11:25 |
| messa4 | what limitations? | Apr 04 11:26 |
| rindolf | messa4: into stuff like Star Trek, Buffy, My Little Pony, internet culture, open source, etc. | Apr 04 11:26 |
| messa4 | u are studying this tuff for thousands of years and u still dont know anything. so its kinda unlimited source to get new ideas | Apr 04 11:26 |
| I-Love-Boobies | And past its lack of evidence, of course. | Apr 04 11:26 |
| messa4 | i dont know rindolf | Apr 04 11:27 |
| rindolf | messa4: I prefer to learn horizontally rather than vertically. | Apr 04 11:27 |
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| rindolf | messa4: I can never learn every word in English, but that should not stop me from improving my French, or learning German or whatever. | Apr 04 11:27 |
| messa4 | shame | Apr 04 11:27 |
| rindolf | messa4: shame? | Apr 04 11:28 |
| rindolf | messa4: I'm learning many English words. | Apr 04 11:28 |
| messa4 | shame: u have great knowlege about judaism stuff and philosphy etc. and u are choosing to focus on buffy or star trek? :P | Apr 04 11:28 |
| I-Love-Boobies | Isn't that also learning vertically? | Apr 04 11:28 |
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| rindolf | messa4: I'm not focusing on anything. | Apr 04 11:28 |
| rindolf | messa4: well, I do. | Apr 04 11:29 |
| rindolf | messa4: Judaism is a large part of me. | Apr 04 11:29 |
| rindolf | I-Love-Boobies: it is, but I learn them as I run into them. | Apr 04 11:29 |
| I-Love-Boobies | Why? | Apr 04 11:29 |
| rindolf | I-Love-Boobies: the ones I don't know don't hurt me much. | Apr 04 11:29 |
| rindolf | I-Love-Boobies: some people forgot which words are useful. | Apr 04 11:30 |
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| I-Love-Boobies | How much does the one you know hurt you and how much does it hurt others? | Apr 04 11:30 |
| messa4 | brb | Apr 04 11:30 |
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| rindolf | I-Love-Boobies: do the words "fuck you" hurt you much? | Apr 04 11:30 |
| rindolf | I-Love-Boobies: how about the words "go to hell, idiot?". | Apr 04 11:31 |
| rindolf | I-Love-Boobies: how about the words "go to hell, idiot!". | Apr 04 11:31 |
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| rindolf | I-Love-Boobies: BTW, which boobies do you love the most? | Apr 04 11:31 |
| I-Love-Boobies | I'm not talking about "just words." I'm talking about actions. | Apr 04 11:31 |
| messa4 | lmao | Apr 04 11:32 |
| messa4 | im back | Apr 04 11:32 |
| messa4 | anyway | Apr 04 11:32 |
| I-Love-Boobies | It takes religion to make a good person do wicked things. | Apr 04 11:32 |
| messa4 | rindolf: write some story without time travel and stuff. constant theme. and i would love to read it | Apr 04 11:32 |
| messa4 | for example: "what if torah would be closed source" :D | Apr 04 11:33 |
| I-Love-Boobies | Not because they want to be bad, but because they think their ideology provides absolute morality. | Apr 04 11:33 |
| messa4 | oh my god | Apr 04 11:34 |
| messa4 | I-Love-Boobies: thats true. but thats not bad thing becasue religion is always good | Apr 04 11:34 |
| messa4 | thats why religon is with us for thousand of years | Apr 04 11:34 |
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| messa4 | s | Apr 04 11:34 |
| messa4 | if would be evil: it would be banished | Apr 04 11:34 |
| I-Love-Boobies | Good? It makes people hate homosexuals, fight wars for gods for which they have no evidence, ban stem cell research (which has the potential to help so many), fly planes into buildings, subjugate women, burn people who find things which contradict the holy books, etc. | Apr 04 11:36 |
| I-Love-Boobies | Given that we have no scientific evidence, it is extremely likely that we did all this and much more in vain... | Apr 04 11:38 |
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| Maxdamantus | How does having something for thousands of years suggest it's good? | Apr 04 11:39 |
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| Maxdamantus | We had human sacrifices .. forever. | Apr 04 11:39 |
| rindolf | messa4: I have much more normal short stories. | Apr 04 11:41 |
| rindolf | messa4: did you read http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/human-hacking/ ? It's close to being 100% realism. | Apr 04 11:41 |
| rindolf | messa4: but I reference popular culture. I have to. | Apr 04 11:41 |
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| Maxdamantus | messa4: lots of Germans apparently thought Nazism was good. | Apr 04 11:43 |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: it took outside forces to banish it. | Apr 04 11:43 |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: people don't just banish things they're brainwashed to believe in. | Apr 04 11:43 |
| furrykef | People are sheep. | Apr 04 11:43 |
| furrykef | Especially those who watch Fox News. | Apr 04 11:44 |
| *furrykef runs | Apr 04 11:44 | |
| Maxdamantus | Why doesn't Fox News banish itself? | Apr 04 11:44 |
| rindolf | furrykef: meow. | Apr 04 11:44 |
| rindolf | furrykef: Apple fanboys are sheep too. | Apr 04 11:44 |
| furrykef | meowmeow. | Apr 04 11:45 |
| messa4 | afk brb | Apr 04 11:45 |
| furrykef | Don't get me started on Apple. | Apr 04 11:45 |
| rindolf | furrykef: but many like https://www.google.com/search?q=ijustine are critical. | Apr 04 11:45 |
| Maxdamantus | furrykef: baah* | Apr 04 11:45 |
| rindolf | I mean they are self-critical. | Apr 04 11:45 |
| rindolf | furrykef: BTW, did you watch Sheep in the Big City? It was great. | Apr 04 11:45 |
| furrykef | I did! I loved that show. | Apr 04 11:45 |
| furrykef | It still isn't on DVD or anything yet, is it? | Apr 04 11:46 |
| rindolf | furrykef: yeah. | Apr 04 11:46 |
| rindolf | furrykef: don't think so. | Apr 04 11:46 |
| Maxdamantus | On a related note: https://gist.github.com/Maxdamantus/055d96b3f28d8facfb97/raw/146.png | Apr 04 11:46 |
| furrykef | It's like the show just got thrown under the bus. | Apr 04 11:46 |
| I-Love-Boobies | There is a difference between being a fan and the inability of recognizing evidence. Apple fanboys know what they're paying and have made their choice. | Apr 04 11:46 |
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| I-Love-Boobies | Opinion vs fact. | Apr 04 11:47 |
| furrykef | Man, I just realized it was about ten years ago I was watching that show | Apr 04 11:47 |
| messa4 | back | Apr 04 11:47 |
| I-Love-Boobies | I liked that show, too, btw. :D | Apr 04 11:47 |
| messa4 | Maxdamantus: maybe u are right. but in my opinion: religion is ok. i woudln't mind to live under orthodox jews rule or in christian empire or under muslim calpiphate. for me religion maks more sense then constantly changing values and laws of modern politics | Apr 04 11:48 |
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| I-Love-Boobies | messa4: It's not values that establish the validity of something---it's evidence. | Apr 04 11:50 |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: being able to change values makes more sense than accepting that values should all come from second-hand accounts of what some guy said 2000 years ago. | Apr 04 11:50 |
| messa4 | Maxdamantus: there are some fist hand accounts in other religions (like islam) | Apr 04 11:50 |
| Maxdamantus | or 1400 years ago, or whatever. | Apr 04 11:50 |
| Maxdamantus | Yes, or even first-hand accounts 1400 years ago. | Apr 04 11:51 |
| messa4 | anyway. i would rater belive in value system that is CONSTANT for thousand year. then for system that is changing by 180* in just few dacades | Apr 04 11:51 |
| I-Love-Boobies | Islam did well for itself, didn't it. The greatest civilization went to shit as soon as math and religion collided. | Apr 04 11:52 |
| messa4 | 70 yares ago it was ok to shoot jew in germany. now its evil. fuck that kind of value system | Apr 04 11:52 |
| rindolf | I think the only difference between Star Trek/Buffy/The Greek Mythology/etc. and the Bible is that some people think the Bible is The Word of God. | Apr 04 11:52 |
| I-Love-Boobies | messa4: Nice values, too. Should they keep them? | Apr 04 11:52 |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: people come up with new value systems (religions) all the time. | Apr 04 11:52 |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: I don't think many people really have the same value system as JC. | Apr 04 11:52 |
| messa4 | Maxdamantus: Orthodox jews or muslims are bleiving the the same values and laws since day 1 | Apr 04 11:53 |
| messa4 | for me this is way to go | Apr 04 11:53 |
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| messa4 | even if ua re not religeious | Apr 04 11:53 |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: it'll be the one of the Anglican church in their country, or the Catholic church, or something. | Apr 04 11:53 |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: I think in the US there are like .. thousands of churches, each with their own belief systems. | Apr 04 11:53 |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: some churches there support gay marriage. | Apr 04 11:53 |
| I-Love-Boobies | Personally, I'd like to have a morality that is subject to discourse not some rigid rules that you can't change when they prove to be detrimental. | Apr 04 11:53 |
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| Maxdamantus | messa4: 2000-year-old belief systems don't work. | Apr 04 11:54 |
| I-Love-Boobies | Or that require mental gymnastics to work around. | Apr 04 11:54 |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: very few people are really willing to believe them. | Apr 04 11:54 |
| messa4 | Maxdamantus: so what? enforce the law | Apr 04 11:54 |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: that's why you have what you have today—people don't REALLY believe others should be stoned for working on Sunday. | Apr 04 11:54 |
| I-Love-Boobies | Like in Christianity. | Apr 04 11:54 |
| messa4 | exactly like u enforce NORMAL law | Apr 04 11:54 |
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| messa4 | for me its no diffrence | Apr 04 11:55 |
| messa4 | but if i could choose - i would rather follow stable non chaning archaic rules then new rules every 10 years totally oposing those from 50 years before | Apr 04 11:55 |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: they don't REALLY believe women should marry their rapists if they can't find four men to testify in their favour. | Apr 04 11:55 |
| Frogulis | \w palimpsest | Apr 04 11:55 |
| che_fen | palimpsest — verb: 1. To scrape clean, as in parchment, for reuse, 2. On paper: to reuse, often by erasure or change of pen direction or color. Especially fueled by Earth Day — noun: 1. A manuscript or document that has been erased or scraped clean, for reuse of the paper, parchment, vellum[...] | Apr 04 11:55 |
| I-Love-Boobies | messa4: Because you are against us evolving as a society? | Apr 04 11:56 |
| I-Love-Boobies | messa4: Do you think it would be good if they decided that in the medieval times and stuck to it? | Apr 04 11:56 |
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| messa4 | yes | Apr 04 11:56 |
| messa4 | but thats just my opinion | Apr 04 11:57 |
| I-Love-Boobies | Then you are evil since you advocate suffering. | Apr 04 11:57 |
| I-Love-Boobies | Either that or inconsistent in your beliefs. | Apr 04 11:57 |
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| messa4 | i advocate stable laws that are stable for thousands of years. not some stupidty made by humans every few years | Apr 04 11:58 |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: what happens when the next religion comes along? | Apr 04 11:58 |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: each religion just replaces another. | Apr 04 11:58 |
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| messa4 | no its not | Apr 04 11:58 |
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| Maxdamantus | messa4: it itself changes beliefs. | Apr 04 11:58 |
| messa4 | you got judaism. after it christianity and islam - neither was replaced. | Apr 04 11:58 |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: to have consistent beliefs, you'd need to go back to the beginnings of civilisations. | Apr 04 11:58 |
| messa4 | jews are still beliving in judaism | Apr 04 11:58 |
| messa4 | and still practising its laws [orthodox] | Apr 04 11:58 |
| I-Love-Boobies | The laws from back then were developed by humans too. Except they were more crewel becasue we didn't lean how to be a society yet. | Apr 04 11:58 |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: Christianity replaced Judaism for many people. | Apr 04 11:59 |
| messa4 | anyway i dont care my friends. for me mix religious laws + scientific progress is way to go. i dont want any social progress at all | Apr 04 11:59 |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: you seem to contradict yourself. | Apr 04 11:59 |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: is Christianity legitimate or not? | Apr 04 12:00 |
| messa4 | u asking in general or my personal belief? | Apr 04 12:00 |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: it's one of the religions you listed, but it's just a belief system that replaced another (Judaism). | Apr 04 12:00 |
| Maxdamantus | Your personal belief. | Apr 04 12:00 |
| I-Love-Boobies | Also, even if you might have heard otherwise, science and religion are in contradiction to one another. | Apr 04 12:00 |
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| messa4 | my personal belief is that islam, judaism and chiristianity is the same religion. aka Monotheism. oryginal religion of Abraham | Apr 04 12:01 |
| Maxdamantus | (note though, as I alluded to earlier, there isn't really any "Christianity" anymore) | Apr 04 12:01 |
| messa4 | so i could live under judaism islam or christian system of values | Apr 04 12:01 |
| messa4 | and be ok | Apr 04 12:01 |
| Maxdamantus | (it's now Catholicism, Anglicanism, Lutherism, etc) | Apr 04 12:01 |
| Maxdamantus | (all different belief systems) | Apr 04 12:02 |
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| I-Love-Boobies | Maxdamantus: Which is ironic. They love to talk about absolute values and yet there are as many Christianities as believers in Christianity. | Apr 04 12:02 |
| messa4 | its true with christianity. but islam and judaism is not that fragmented | Apr 04 12:02 |
| I-Love-Boobies | True. | Apr 04 12:02 |
| I-Love-Boobies | Maxdamantus: I mean even Catholics disagree in their interpretations in ways that agree which each individual views on other things. | Apr 04 12:04 |
| Maxdamantus | The Catholic church believed in purgatory until a few years ago. | Apr 04 12:04 |
| Maxdamantus | afk | Apr 04 12:04 |
| Maxdamantus | and Islam and Judaism are in no way constant either. | Apr 04 12:05 |
| messa4 | and seriously: why follow some law made by politician, when we could follow law made thousand years ago. even if u dont belive in it - its more realible and STABLE. nothing worse then unstable law [in one minute u can kill all jews by signing single law] | Apr 04 12:05 |
| Maxdamantus | rindolf was talking earlier about how scholars *believe* particular things. | Apr 04 12:05 |
| Maxdamantus | Based on the way they understand the Torah | Apr 04 12:05 |
| messa4 | Maxdamantus: islam is constant. thats why its so primitive and archaic. not even single letter was changed in quran since beggining, and all laws are the same. thats why they are so strange | Apr 04 12:06 |
| messa4 | but its ok for me personally | Apr 04 12:06 |
| I-Love-Boobies | messa4: Is it okay when they subjugate their women or kill each other in the street? | Apr 04 12:07 |
| I-Love-Boobies | Why? | Apr 04 12:07 |
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| messa4 | I-Love-Boobies: go and study | Apr 04 12:08 |
| I-Love-Boobies | Pardon? | Apr 04 12:08 |
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| I-Love-Boobies | It's easy to dismiss uncomfortable questions... | Apr 04 12:09 |
| messa4 | i dont want to discuss about it. but it seems that u have deep misunderstanding of islamic laws. but u can learn a littlebit about it. plenty of sources | Apr 04 12:10 |
| messa4 | its like saying: is it ok for christians to kill jews? | Apr 04 12:10 |
| messa4 | generalization and shit | Apr 04 12:10 |
| messa4 | so im not gonna discuss it. | Apr 04 12:11 |
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| I-Love-Boobies | Is anyone else amused at this? :) | Apr 04 12:12 |
| messa4 | and as i said: i dont mind living under orthodox jewish or islamc law. | Apr 04 12:12 |
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| I-Love-Boobies | Because you are not the target of anyone. | Apr 04 12:12 |
| Skunky | because he's a guy not a girl | Apr 04 12:13 |
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| marzipig | Pretty sure I'd be executed under Jewish or Islamic law | Apr 04 12:13 |
| marzipig | because Allah/Jahweh as depicted in those books is a cunt | Apr 04 12:13 |
| messa4 | wow | Apr 04 12:13 |
| messa4 | ok im back to my channel ridol | Apr 04 12:14 |
| messa4 | rindolf: | Apr 04 12:14 |
| messa4 | marzipig: no comment man. kinda uncool | Apr 04 12:14 |
| rindolf | messa4: ok. | Apr 04 12:14 |
| rindolf | messa4: hi. | Apr 04 12:14 |
| marzipig | messa4: it's true though, genocidal, sadistic | Apr 04 12:14 |
| messa4 | have some repsect for fuk sake | Apr 04 12:14 |
| messa4 | even if u dont like it | Apr 04 12:14 |
| Skunky | no | Apr 04 12:14 |
| binders | in other words, human | Apr 04 12:15 |
| marzipig | No | Apr 04 12:15 |
| messa4 | dont call it "cunt" | Apr 04 12:15 |
| rindolf | messa4: BTW, there's this episode of Futurama where in the future Star Trek becomes a religion. | Apr 04 12:15 |
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| binders | he said "as depicted" | Apr 04 12:15 |
| I-Love-Boobies | Nothing is above criticism. This is the only way to discard bad habits. | Apr 04 12:15 |
| marzipig | If it's a misrepresenation, then I feel bad for the entity(but it should release a sequel) | Apr 04 12:15 |
| I-Love-Boobies | :) | Apr 04 12:15 |
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| marzipig | One way in which I am superior to Jahweh: I don't think people who call me a cunt deserve eternal torture | Apr 04 12:16 |
| messa4 | i fuckin dont get this hatered | Apr 04 12:16 |
| rindolf | messa4: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=futurama+%22no+fan+has+gone+before%22&oq=futurama+%22no+fan+has+gone+before%22&gs_l=youtube.3...18478.19277.0.19649.2.2.0.0.0.0.141.271.0j2.2.0...0.0...1ac.1.V5-7yu84pmk | Apr 04 12:16 |
| marzipig | messa4: you are aware that genocide is frowned upon? | Apr 04 12:17 |
| messa4 | i dont like catholic church for example. i could talk about their bad stuff for days. but for god sake - i have some respect for their belief | Apr 04 12:17 |
| messa4 | it doesnt matter | Apr 04 12:17 |
| messa4 | i ahte "liberal" people who are acting like nazis | Apr 04 12:18 |
| messa4 | without respect | Apr 04 12:18 |
| messa4 | :( | Apr 04 12:18 |
| marzipig | Good morning Mr Godwin | Apr 04 12:18 |
| binders | "like nazis" isn't that a bit of an exaggeration? | Apr 04 12:18 |
| messa4 | maybe. im sorry | Apr 04 12:18 |
| messa4 | but u know what i mean | Apr 04 12:18 |
| marzipig | No, I don't | Apr 04 12:18 |
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| marzipig | In fact I strongly suspect you don't /have/ a point | Apr 04 12:19 |
| I-Love-Boobies | messa4: The source of our dislike is quite simple: As long as there is no evidence for a belief, it merely paves the way for certain actions. In the case of all religions I know of, many of these actions are wicked. | Apr 04 12:19 |
| marzipig | I-Love-Boobies: my view is more nuanced | Apr 04 12:19 |
| I-Love-Boobies | So why does a detrimental belief for which there is no evidence demand respect? | Apr 04 12:20 |
| I-Love-Boobies | marienz: Oh? | Apr 04 12:20 |
| messa4 | I-Love-Boobies: for example LAW | Apr 04 12:20 |
| messa4 | even secular law | Apr 04 12:20 |
| messa4 | like in UK | Apr 04 12:20 |
| binders | law can be reformed | Apr 04 12:20 |
| I-Love-Boobies | ^ | Apr 04 12:20 |
| binders | scripture is eternal | Apr 04 12:20 |
| I-Love-Boobies | ^ | Apr 04 12:20 |
| rindolf | messa4: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=larry-wall-all-truth-is-gods-truh - see this. | Apr 04 12:20 |
| binders | and we make the law | Apr 04 12:21 |
| marzipig | I-Love-Boobies: Oh, actually, you probably hold the same view as me, dogmatism is the problem | Apr 04 12:21 |
| binders | it's not imposed on us by some cruel superpower who kills on a whim | Apr 04 12:21 |
| messa4 | even if u dont give a fuck about religion law. In most countries SECULAR law forbids u to say things like "this religion is cunt". u need to be respectful even if u dont belive in it | Apr 04 12:21 |
| marzipig | It's not just "religion" it's holding on to any view regardless of whether it's counterfactual | Apr 04 12:21 |
| marzipig | messa4: here we still have some freedom of speech, and I never said Judaism was a cunt | Apr 04 12:21 |
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| messa4 | marzipig: u are in USA i belive? | Apr 04 12:22 |
| I-Love-Boobies | messa4: A law which is also detrimental and should be changed. | Apr 04 12:22 |
| marzipig | messa4: you believe wrong, I'm in England | Apr 04 12:22 |
| rindolf | messa4: http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/fortunes/show.cgi?id=the-cia-vs-the-kgb-vs-the-shin-bet - you may also enjoy this. Israeli humour. | Apr 04 12:22 |
| Maxdamantus | 22:17:28 < messa4> i dont like catholic church for example. i could talk about their bad stuff for days. but for god sake - i have some respect for their belief | Apr 04 12:22 |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: I think the Catholic church used to execute people like you. | Apr 04 12:22 |
| marzipig | Maxdamantus: you seriously think they stopped? | Apr 04 12:22 |
| marzipig | Pretty good at not letting things get out that church | Apr 04 12:22 |
| messa4 | marzipig: ARE YOU INSNANE?! if u will say "religion xyz is cunt" in any british town - u will be prosecuted. no doubt | Apr 04 12:22 |
| marzipig | messa4: no, and I didn't say that | Apr 04 12:23 |
| *shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) | Apr 04 12:23 | |
| I-Love-Boobies | Shame on the UK then. | Apr 04 12:23 |
| rindolf | Maxdamantus: the Roman Catholic Church of today is very different from that when the press was invented. | Apr 04 12:23 |
| marzipig | I-Love-Boobies: shame on the UK for other reasons, not that one(yet) | Apr 04 12:23 |
| messa4 | marzipig: so who said that? sorry | Apr 04 12:23 |
| messa4 | anyway nvm | Apr 04 12:23 |
| marzipig | messa4: I said that Jahweh as depicted in the Torah/Bible/Qur'an comes accross as a cunt | Apr 04 12:24 |
| I-Love-Boobies | Yes, that. Nothing should be above the freedom of expression and critique. | Apr 04 12:24 |
| rindolf | Maxdamantus: for example, Madonna was welcomed to visit many churches, while back in 1400 she would have been burned on stake. | Apr 04 12:24 |
| binders | messa4, nobody said the religion was a cunt (which makes no sense anyway) refer back to what marzipig actually said | Apr 04 12:24 |
| marzipig | rindolf: "burned at the stake" | Apr 04 12:24 |
| messa4 | marzipig: nvm. its dissrespectful anyway | Apr 04 12:24 |
| marzipig | Your point is right though | Apr 04 12:24 |
| marzipig | Right, I have no respect for that particular fictional entity | Apr 04 12:24 |
| messa4 | for me its end of topic. i hate disrespect. doesnt care if u are jew or muslim or whatever | Apr 04 12:25 |
| Maxdamantus | messa4: you should have some respect for disrespect. | Apr 04 12:25 |
| marzipig | I honestly think I'm showing you more respect than y oure shoing me | Apr 04 12:25 |
| marzipig | *you're | Apr 04 12:25 |
| I-Love-Boobies | messa4: Disrespectful? But we should be critical of such things... Some people think blacks are lesser people. Should I show respect just because it is a belief? | Apr 04 12:25 |
| marzipig | At least I'm not shouting at you to shut up | Apr 04 12:25 |
| rindolf | marzipig: thanks! I'll try to keep it in mind. | Apr 04 12:26 |
| rindolf | Maxdamantus: <Maxdamantus> messa4: you should have some respect for disrespect.- hah! That's great. | Apr 04 12:26 |
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